Thoughts - CHARGE INITIATIVE - I am largely liking the change to removal of Charge ASF, and that Initiative is now important on defensive units - and hopefully ASF will be an extremely rare tech now available only got characters. I have a block of 30 of the old Metal Eternal Guard that just never saw use because T3 5+ Saves got rinsed by pretty much everthing. It will be interesting to see what the ratio is for charging. It's interesting that they went with the extremes of a Swordmaster at Init 6 vs a Stone Troll Init 1, suggesting maybe +4. Perhaps +2 for charging, with a +1/+2 for Flank and Rear? My biggest concern is for playing Dwarves, of which I have two old players who I know are looking at the game again - if their Init 2 is not going to beat my Init 5 even on a charge (let's be honest, even with triple march, they'll be lucky to be able get a flank charge), then they might as well just go into a full tilt list of shooting again. - WEAPON SKILL CHART - honestly very happy with this. As much as I like melee to be more useable, and HH2.0 WS table is a huge part of making elite infantry feel elite, it sadly had an inverse effect on the meta of the game, where WS4 wasn't worth using unless cheap and in numbers, and you might as well shoot that unit off the board. I think keeping this is the correct way to go about it. That said, the chart does support the lethality of higher weapon skill units - no hitting Zombies on 3's with your Bloodthirster; This reduces the effectiveness of autohit/+1 to hit on very high WS, giving you more options to play with magic weapons. I like that this makes spells reducing enemy WS to be especially lethal if you can combo with a charge Brackets appear to be; -- Opponent WS is more than 2* your WS; 5+ -- Opponent WS is equal to or higher than your WS; 4+ -- Opponent WS is lower than your WS; 3+ -- Opponent WS is lower than half your WS; 2+ (WS9-10 vs WS4 or less, WS7-8 vs WS3 or less, etc) - COMBAT RES AND CASUALTIES - I think step up remains - preventing elite units from fighting after taking casualties on a charge is just so anti-fun that again, there's no purpose to taking them. Given the change to Charge Initiative too, if you charged and had your front rank slain before they strike, then there's even less reason to take low Init elite melee. I'm on the fence about it only allowing single attacks, that just feels like so much additional admin work to determine, and also only penalises elite melee however that seems very unwieldy to regularly do. I like the combat res chart, and I like that simply charging as a global bonus is removed, as it de-emphasised tactical play in order to get ASF/+1 res. Now you have to attempt to maneuvre your units to get that. My favourite part is that a loser MUST give ground, so it's less rush forwards and hope for the best. It allows melee infantry to attempt to shift big fat blobs and that healing magic can't keep replenishing units that are slain and just outlasting. I hope that falling back doesn't allow you to charge the following turn (assuming good order is autorally), because that feels like you're instead hoping you FBIGA rather than passing the test natively, but the attempt at improved granularity is good, and reduces the over-reliance on stacking Ld modifiers. Free Reform on a won combat after forcing the moveback is also nice, especially if your opponent has a row of units for you to reform and charge into rather - again, more elite melee buffs, very welcome in a game that was previously focused around shooting with big tarpit blocks unless you were one of those rare factions with some fast giga-melee unit. - I REALLY REALLY hope that supporting attacks for horde mode, or that horde mode is legitimately a thing that most armies cannot easily reach - is not a thing as that disincentivizes elite melee over hordes of basic melee. - MAGIC - something I missed before was "Fireball" being listed as "Battle Magic"; as is "Hammerhand". I wonder if this is bascally handing out generic spells, and reducing bloat in the system where things have a minor difference. It might be a little incongruous to have a Heaven's caster launching Fireball, and not a lighting arc, and could have been renamed better if this is the generic magic missile though. They've not yet expanded on how casting properly works, other than that you need to beat the spellcasting roll. I kinda hope that it's not about stacking casting modifiers and casters already getting an innate bonus based on if they are a lord of not. The damage spells so far look a little lacklustre; assuming T3 5+ Saves, Fireball is 7 hits, maybe 4-5 wounds, 3-4 removed - worse against things like a Chaos Warrior; Vortex of Chaos is a DoT Template, and will be lucky to get more than 1 or 2 removals a turn against even your smallest goblin (dangerous terrain will be interesting though); and Hammerhand is one of those better than nothing spells, but I can't see myself saving any casting dice for it, if that's how it works - averaging 4 S4 autohits is basically 1 basic goblin dead a turn, and that's assuming you can't be sniped/challenged out. If you're charging a wizard into a fight and that's what you're relying on to carry the day... eesh. Depending on timing, if you can cast spells during an actual combat, Soul Eater could potentially be nice to generate easy Overkill - throwing Morathi/Supreme Sorceress/Malekith at a block, challenging out the champion, and one shotting the fight on a casting roll and rolling a 4-5+ - especially for those on a dragon where they can fight the rank and file. It's less powerful if you don't get the overkill or its not counted in combat however.
@seanMmaguire18 ай бұрын
Charging based on Initiative might mean that Great Weapons no longer make you strike last but instead confer an initiative penalty.
@geeksworkshop8 ай бұрын
+2 to hit is a change since I played, but I didn't play 8th
Пікірлер: 5
Thoughts - CHARGE INITIATIVE - I am largely liking the change to removal of Charge ASF, and that Initiative is now important on defensive units - and hopefully ASF will be an extremely rare tech now available only got characters. I have a block of 30 of the old Metal Eternal Guard that just never saw use because T3 5+ Saves got rinsed by pretty much everthing. It will be interesting to see what the ratio is for charging. It's interesting that they went with the extremes of a Swordmaster at Init 6 vs a Stone Troll Init 1, suggesting maybe +4. Perhaps +2 for charging, with a +1/+2 for Flank and Rear? My biggest concern is for playing Dwarves, of which I have two old players who I know are looking at the game again - if their Init 2 is not going to beat my Init 5 even on a charge (let's be honest, even with triple march, they'll be lucky to be able get a flank charge), then they might as well just go into a full tilt list of shooting again. - WEAPON SKILL CHART - honestly very happy with this. As much as I like melee to be more useable, and HH2.0 WS table is a huge part of making elite infantry feel elite, it sadly had an inverse effect on the meta of the game, where WS4 wasn't worth using unless cheap and in numbers, and you might as well shoot that unit off the board. I think keeping this is the correct way to go about it. That said, the chart does support the lethality of higher weapon skill units - no hitting Zombies on 3's with your Bloodthirster; This reduces the effectiveness of autohit/+1 to hit on very high WS, giving you more options to play with magic weapons. I like that this makes spells reducing enemy WS to be especially lethal if you can combo with a charge Brackets appear to be; -- Opponent WS is more than 2* your WS; 5+ -- Opponent WS is equal to or higher than your WS; 4+ -- Opponent WS is lower than your WS; 3+ -- Opponent WS is lower than half your WS; 2+ (WS9-10 vs WS4 or less, WS7-8 vs WS3 or less, etc) - COMBAT RES AND CASUALTIES - I think step up remains - preventing elite units from fighting after taking casualties on a charge is just so anti-fun that again, there's no purpose to taking them. Given the change to Charge Initiative too, if you charged and had your front rank slain before they strike, then there's even less reason to take low Init elite melee. I'm on the fence about it only allowing single attacks, that just feels like so much additional admin work to determine, and also only penalises elite melee however that seems very unwieldy to regularly do. I like the combat res chart, and I like that simply charging as a global bonus is removed, as it de-emphasised tactical play in order to get ASF/+1 res. Now you have to attempt to maneuvre your units to get that. My favourite part is that a loser MUST give ground, so it's less rush forwards and hope for the best. It allows melee infantry to attempt to shift big fat blobs and that healing magic can't keep replenishing units that are slain and just outlasting. I hope that falling back doesn't allow you to charge the following turn (assuming good order is autorally), because that feels like you're instead hoping you FBIGA rather than passing the test natively, but the attempt at improved granularity is good, and reduces the over-reliance on stacking Ld modifiers. Free Reform on a won combat after forcing the moveback is also nice, especially if your opponent has a row of units for you to reform and charge into rather - again, more elite melee buffs, very welcome in a game that was previously focused around shooting with big tarpit blocks unless you were one of those rare factions with some fast giga-melee unit. - I REALLY REALLY hope that supporting attacks for horde mode, or that horde mode is legitimately a thing that most armies cannot easily reach - is not a thing as that disincentivizes elite melee over hordes of basic melee. - MAGIC - something I missed before was "Fireball" being listed as "Battle Magic"; as is "Hammerhand". I wonder if this is bascally handing out generic spells, and reducing bloat in the system where things have a minor difference. It might be a little incongruous to have a Heaven's caster launching Fireball, and not a lighting arc, and could have been renamed better if this is the generic magic missile though. They've not yet expanded on how casting properly works, other than that you need to beat the spellcasting roll. I kinda hope that it's not about stacking casting modifiers and casters already getting an innate bonus based on if they are a lord of not. The damage spells so far look a little lacklustre; assuming T3 5+ Saves, Fireball is 7 hits, maybe 4-5 wounds, 3-4 removed - worse against things like a Chaos Warrior; Vortex of Chaos is a DoT Template, and will be lucky to get more than 1 or 2 removals a turn against even your smallest goblin (dangerous terrain will be interesting though); and Hammerhand is one of those better than nothing spells, but I can't see myself saving any casting dice for it, if that's how it works - averaging 4 S4 autohits is basically 1 basic goblin dead a turn, and that's assuming you can't be sniped/challenged out. If you're charging a wizard into a fight and that's what you're relying on to carry the day... eesh. Depending on timing, if you can cast spells during an actual combat, Soul Eater could potentially be nice to generate easy Overkill - throwing Morathi/Supreme Sorceress/Malekith at a block, challenging out the champion, and one shotting the fight on a casting roll and rolling a 4-5+ - especially for those on a dragon where they can fight the rank and file. It's less powerful if you don't get the overkill or its not counted in combat however.
Charging based on Initiative might mean that Great Weapons no longer make you strike last but instead confer an initiative penalty.
+2 to hit is a change since I played, but I didn't play 8th
Thank you for share it. 👍
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