The 'new' Kill Team is completely different. The old Kill Team you know felt like it had clunky rules that tried to be a little original, but still just felt like a slow paced 40k lite. The new KT is a dream to play. As a Malifaux player, it's tough to choose which I prefer.. it's that good.

@amsfountain8792

4 күн бұрын

How does Warcry commpare to Kill team? I am on the fence wich one to buy.

@11AleZZ

3 күн бұрын

I prefer KT 2018, the rules were not good but the personalisation was great, in the new KT personalisation it's very limited, that for a skirmish game it's a killer, also the balance like all GW games is a problem, some faction are trash and other are OP

@ruas4721

2 күн бұрын

Old kill team was much more fun, even with its problems. The new killteam lost so many cool things about warband creation and also some rules are very weird. The balancing is in both versions a nightmare.

@ruas4721

2 күн бұрын

@@amsfountain8792 Warcry is a terrible game, dont know how it got such a good ranking in this guys tier list. Kill team is way better, but there are much better skirmish games than both of them, they are low tier games with high prices and bad rules.

@dratesdragetes777

2 күн бұрын

@@amsfountain8792 warcry is fun, the only issue I had with it was the token managment. I personally just did not care for killteam at all when I tried playing 5 games of it earlier this year however, its a better game than 40k tenth edition, but it still has some questionable game design.

Ranking games like that is a hard exercise. The thing is, you're so wrong on Warmachine that I don't know if I can trust your judgement on the other games.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

Certainly the most recurring comment. I'll have to give the game another shot, I suppose; however, I'm fairly certain I'll still think it's bad because I know what I like and I know that game ain't it.

@robertchmielecki2580

Күн бұрын

That is right, that game was such an eye opener for me - a wargame that is about player decisions, agency and interaction, not about watching randomness happen. An awesome, deep game where you can always improve, no matter your skill level.

@andreyfisher7068

18 сағат бұрын

​@@robertchmielecki2580Same, it's hard for me to find many games that feel as tight rule wise and "right" in its army sizes. While I do try out different games on occasion; Warmachine, MCP, and Song are games I keep coming back to.

@drosarius5929

16 сағат бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle Yeah, but from your description of the game, you either did not understand the game at all or you had someone that didn't give you a good description of the game. The game books come with an incredibly rich background lore giving you a MOUNTAIN of storytelling to do with any fight. That includes interpersonal grudges and past history across different army commanders. And the killer is that you said you didn't feel that your decisions meant anything. Everything from force construction to the skills and abilities utilized by units on the field is KEY to success. The last thing anyone that understood the game would say is that the decisions in the game didn't mean anything.

Have you tried out "Battletech: Alpha Strike"? It is basically an alternate set of rules that simplifies the record sheets into playing-card-sized cards (less logistics), and also simplifies the movement rules (uses measured distances - no need for hexes for moving or for determining ranges). It seems to be a way to target the "hexless" game players into trying out a semi-"Battletech" system.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Ohhh that actually sounds better.

@ShadowAxon

25 күн бұрын

​@@TabletopTurtle I exclusively play Alpha Strike, I've only played classic once, but it never gave me a "War feel" because placing more than 2 mechs on the table made the battle last hours. But in alpha strike you can run multiple lances in the same length of time.

@BrandonL337

4 күн бұрын

My impression is that Alpha Strike is also much better for scaled-up battles as well, multiple lances, combined arms, with tank platoons, aircraft, etc.

@VictorSteiner

4 күн бұрын

Alpha Strike is so watered down that it basically has nothing to do with Battletech anymore besides the minis: there is a classic/Alpha Strike hybrid invented by Death frommAbove Wargaming called Battletech Override. Faster than classic but still with individual weapons and simplified armor. A VERY good mix!

@vectorstrike

4 күн бұрын

Alpha Strike is great!

Infinity is an amazing game. Even with the dense rules, it takes me 10 min to demo 80% of them because it’s so intuitive.

@TabletopTurtle

5 күн бұрын

It really is intuitive surprisingly which is so helpful in remembering the rules if you go awhile without playing

Didn't expect to see my miniatures in this video. At 37:52 shows my Cult of Yurei force. I won fantasy unit category at Salute 2013 with them. Haven't painted anything in years. Got a bunch of hot wheels cars not too long ago, but didn't do any thing with them.

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

You did a great job! You should get back at it!

The Heroscape slander is diabolical

@daniel-lee888

Ай бұрын

Ha - yes I love Heroscape, it's provided hours of fun for me and friends and easy to get new players up and running. Prepainted minis (in the original sets) means they are table ready immediately. I'll never sell my sets!

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

haha man I swear I'm not being an asshole, I genuinely wanted to like that game but every single time I kept asking myself "is this it!?" after every play. Then I had to deconstruct the damn board!

@CarbonBallas

Ай бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle haha!! So true. Even though I'm an avid heroscape fan. Lol

@zackanderson9453

20 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtleI’m not sure where you live, but come out to an event. Best part of then game is army building. Also, why take down the map? Do you take down your 4x6 each time?

Agree with Infinity. The gameplay feels so "alive" when the action unfolds on the table. Hiding behind the corner, sneaking my camouflaged guys, keeping my termo-camo guys invisible ready to strike..

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

Whenever I play Ariadna and I have Van Zant, I always play Back in Black before I make his airborne reveal. My friend hates me.

ASOIAF its a A to me, pretty easy to learn hard to master game, its also relatively cheap game, you only need a starter and 2-3 unit boxes and thats it, yeah some of the new factions are a bit redundant but if you use the 3-4 first factions, you have a ton of replay value

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

I do love how inexpensive it is. I've seen it on huge sale many times.

“Infinity is a game that I’d never recommend to anybody.” This is the only reason I don’t put Infinity as S Tier.

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

Likely should have clarified that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who isn't deep in the hobby space and have been playing games for a long time . . . so certainly none of my friends. Still best game on the market today.

Poor Star Wars Armada... didn't even make the list T_T

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

HAHA funny cause when I was just making the list of games I played I did notice the lack of Armada, because I think I always dismissed it as just X-Wing with some extra shit and a larger scale.

@clontroper5

26 күн бұрын

​@@TabletopTurtle Star Wars Armada has some of my favorite mechanics ever! Specifically the defense tokens system is Amazing IMO adds much for strategic depth and decision making to acts of attacking and defending then simply rolling dice like most minatures games.

@ridingwarthogs3244

2 күн бұрын

​@TabletopTurtle Having played both it's a completely different game to X-wing. Much more strategy and more need to plan ahead with how your ships are controlled

@AinarMiyata

9 сағат бұрын

Yup, armada is a completely different beast. Armada is a much more thinky strategy game. It’s incredible if you have a taste for that kind of thing.

I like Space Station Zero. Agnostic minis, build a team, go explore as co-op teams or skirmish on the main deck. The game encourages a diverse skill set rather than just a smash & bash through the scenarios, works well with odd number of players too so nobody gets left out.

My top 3 games: Malifaux, Asoiaf, Warmachine. Another favourites to make a top 10: Infinity, Aristeia, Saga, Dropzone commander, Deadzone, Mesbg, Kill team.

Conquest by Parabellum is my personally favorite rank and flank game as they have large high quality minis with a very unique aesthetic for all the factions with interesting lore and gameplay that revolves around a deck of cards where you have to prepare the order you're activating your units in advance with a lot of mechanics that mess around with the deck as you're playing

@evanuphil

Күн бұрын

Plus one for trying conquest. As a new gamer it was way more approachable than Warhammer, and the minis are awesome. Customer-friendly company and growing community.

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

That does sound interesting and it's nice they made their troops not carbon copied of one another. That makes for some boring paint nights.

I understand the blood bowl hate, but I must insist anyone who wants to try it to actually try it. I know it sounds really stupid, plain and kind of boring, but it's actually a very tactical positioning game that has lots of wacky things that can happen on the very even field, it's very interesting and fun. Believe me, I wasn't interested in it at all but now I'm a true believer, and the community is amazing.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

Well I can agree about the community. All good guys from those I've interacted with. I think Guild Ball provided that sports wargame blend I was looking for but it would be cool to have a game that's a little more silly and off the wall. My issue is always those damn charts.

@odallyo5861

2 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle I agree that the Charts are random, i think this game is targeted more to a Strategy intensive audience. I absolutely love it. There are Charts and it is RNG but part of that strategy is risk management. Knowing where to zone your players or position them to minimize casualties. I feel that if you are finding the charts as a negative it may purely be due to Noobie Luck. With strategy the Charts are part of the strategy. For example, Getting block as a skill changes your probability on failing a block to a 1/6, whereas normally its a 1/3. Small things like that plus positioning is where the strategy comes in.

Played my first game of infinity today! Was really fun very very crunchy can’t wait to get a Handel on it

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

That's awesome! Man, I have found the community in Infinity to be so damn good. I literally walked into a store one day and saw some guys playing it and knowing nothing about it I asked if I could observe, after like 15 minutes they stopped playing and just taught me the game and let me play. I walked out of that damn store with an entire army haha

X-Wing was just killed by Asmodee/AMG last month. They will support tournaments up until Adepticon next year, but production has stopped so no more products. Fans are already stepping up to keep it alive. The community is quite split since 2020 when AMG took over from FFG and changed the game a lot. It is about a 50-50 with players liking 2.0 and the new "2.5". The latest version from AMG has no official edition or core set, just PDF rules, which also made it confusing for new players and didn't help the community. Still really like the changes from 1.0 to 2.0 though, it balanced things after the power creep that happened the last years of 1.0, and it upgraded the old ships with mechanics that had been added during later waves.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

That's sad to hear but inevitable with a lot of these mini games owned by a more generalist company like CMON, Fantasy Flight, etc. Plus it's a licensed property, so you know that's running out eventually. Maybe I'll try to find some online deals for some X-Wing stuff before it's all gone.

Kill team getting a low C/D. Dayum

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

Savage!

@mikefish1124

2 күн бұрын

@donaldhavasy2356 it's an accurate assessment

Trench Crusade is too young to rank but what are your impressions of it so far?

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

Fun looking aesthetics, but haven't played yet to talk about the mechanics.

Thanks for putting this together. I appreciate the range of games you've played, not something too many people have experience in.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

Too much free time apparently 🤣

I'm actually curious what you think of video games that play similarly to these like Xcom, Fire Emblem, and Valkyria Chronicles. Is there a particular reason you are drawn to miniature games over them (or not)? I ask because I was looking up reviews, gameplay, etc of your higher tiered games and saw this comparison a lot and I really love those games.

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

I loved X-Com and Valkyria and I was playing Valkyria before I became a weeb 😜 I think I prefer tabletop because while although a digital game can handle all the computations and rules much faster than myself, I need that tangible element. I want to see the person I'm playing with. I want to hold the models I painted. I want to roll the dice in my hands and hear them fall on the table. It's all part of the fun of the experience.

Blitz bowl is an easy A tier. Approachable, instantly fun, great minis (gw bloodbowl models are great), doesn't have gross bloodbowl design from the 80s. It's short at 45 minutes or less, just a real class product. Shockingly deep for it's rules complexity.

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

The minis are pretty cool. No denying that fact.

Necromunda didn't require a gm for the campaign, btw. It wasn't balanced and had the same randomness of Mordheim, so it's still probably in the right spot of your tier list.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Okay I was misremembering. But I do remember not being overly impressed with the tactics and strategy available to me while playing.

@Dazzxp

20 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle Necromunda C tier is criminal! people have been put to death for less!

Love seeing Malifaux and Infinity getting the recognition they deserve for their awesome settings and rule sets. I do think a revisit to Bushido is warranted. It’s up there with Infinity and Malifaux in my opinion. For recommendations I’d suggest Dystopian Wars, Botwar, and Judgement: Eternal Champions. Dystopian wars is my favorite naval combat game. Botwar really brings that nostalgia for 80’s and 90’s cartoons. Judgement has hex-based gameplay and beautiful models made by Creature Caster. Thanks for the video!

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

I'll get back to Bushido eventually. I'd imagine the company is still supporting the game.

@thomgizziz

7 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle You should try warhammer underworlds, it is like warcry but in a quick small tabletop game.

Intersting list. My biggest question is what exactly puts you off about the magic system in Bushido. I think it is a really elegant system with much to consider during gameplay. Liking it so much, I am really intersted in other opinions.

The reason 40k is better is the number of players. Around me, no one is playing these other games whereas you can always find a game. That alone is a huge factor.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

And that's totally fair. Can't play this stuff solo. I just manipulate friends to play what I want.

@S0nyb1ack

Күн бұрын

I'm extremely lucky to have a relatively big (for our small country at least) local community who looooove miniature agnostic games and Conquest: Last argument of Kings (and there are a couple of people willing to play Malifaux with me as well) :D I've really bounced off warhammer hard, but I'm enjoying my time with Conquest a lot - though I do really like rank and flank games in general ;)

@SuperDuperHappyTime

Күн бұрын

The trick, is to be the one who introduces the game.

Love this video. Subscribed!

One of the designers of Malifaux 2nd here. So fun to hear that you love it so much.

Rest in piece warzone the mutant chronicles, void, vor, and epic 40k

Awesome video!!!! Honest and informative opinions !! 🎉

@TabletopTurtle

5 күн бұрын

Glad you liked it!!

Have you tried Hate (CMON), Arcadia Quest (CMON) or Age of Sigmar (GW) - Spearhead or full game?

@gbohme

5 күн бұрын

There are also others like Conan (monolith), mythic battles pantheon (monolith) and time of legends Joana darc (mythic games)

@gbohme

5 күн бұрын

Good video by the way… thanks for sharing your opinion!

@TabletopTurtle

5 күн бұрын

I've played most of the CMON/general board game mini games. I hated Conan with a burning passion because I found it boring and this is coming from someone whose first book he ever read was Conan. Mythic Battles I had the entire Kick collection and sold it because I didn't feel a lot of variation between all the characters. Time of Legends was really cool only because the scale was so small haha other than that I didn't enjoy it. Arcadia Quest suffered the same fate. I had all the kick stuff and sold it all because it just wasn't getting a lot of play.

@gbohme

4 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle thanks for your answer! You must then try the new edition of age of sigmar (GW) that just came out.. it is apparently a large improvement on previous rulesets.

Before i comment on anything specifics just need to say, Great video. it's always good to have a resource like this to gather different opinions of a game before jumping in. That being said, MAN I didn't think it'd hurt so much to see someone bounce off of Blood Bowl that hard. It's a game that brought me so many fun memories. Weird though that Guild ball jived with you for a lot of the reasons I enjoy about Blood bowl(The focus on scoring rather then just fighting, the humor etc)... But Obviously if the bones of a game don't work for you there's no reason to stick and keep playing. On the other side as someone who just stumbled into the Gaslands hole, Hard agree. Played with with roommates on our kitchen table and we had a great time and may even start up a in-house season play. so fun!

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

Man, I wanted to like it so much. I really genuinely did! I was so psyched hearing about it and I was pumped to play a season but after playing I was just so damn disappointed and sad. For Gaslands I now have friends who have ZERO interest in modeling or painting who own their own hotwheels cars that they've glued random shit to haha

Infinity and Malifaux at the top where they belong... You have excellent taste sir. Id also put Guildball at S tier, despite it being mishandled by SFG, its still mechanically one the best miniature games that exists and also now being supported by SFG again (kinda). SAGA which you didn't mention, id also rank S tier, you should maybe give that a try sometime.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Guild Ball is amazing, it's true. I am curious to see if the factions get a bit better in regards to how they play because a big complain was that everything started feeling a little samey because SFG couldn't understand how to balance a game properly without making everything the same. I'm not sure I've heard of SAGA. I'll have a look.

My favorite miniature game is Relicblade love everything about it. Also check out Rangers of Shadowdeep if you like cooperative!

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Rangers of the Shadowdeep is on my wishlist. I'll have a look at Relicblade.

You should try Deadzone. The new Halo game that's coming out soon has a similar game system. Fast, easy to learn, fun scifi skirmish game.

Ай бұрын

Deadzone is an awesome skirmish game!

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

I've never been a halo fan, but I'll watch a few playthroughs

@grutfrut5817

17 күн бұрын

DZ is the best skirmish game I've played.

I wondered why youtube recommended this video to me. Its because Infinity IS the best game ever made. N4 did a good job "de nesting" the rules so rules do a much better job standing on their own instead of needing to know a rule to know a second rule. Its much smoother and definitely the best edition of the game so far.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Reading N4 was a hell of a lot more enjoyable than previous versions. I say this as a technical writer myself, I was pretty impressed with how that book is organized and how easy the rules were to understand after a single read. I'm embarrassed to say I have not even touched any of the expansion books, so I don't even know what new cool mechanics there are out there right now!

@jonathanpickles2946

13 күн бұрын

I should give it a look. I always wanted to love Infinity from playing when the rules were on a sheet in the minis boxes. The core system seemed so promising but it always frustrated me that the end result was painful. The rules were always more and more complex when everything they added seemed to add its own special rule. I do not like the mish mash of nations background which does not help!

@dominicparker6124

Күн бұрын

Infinity is an amazing game, but it's so hard to play. And play well. So rules dense, not massively approachable. Very complex. I dropped out of it after years of playing it at tournaments because it just took so much energy to play for where I'm at now. It's not a casual game

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

@@dominicparker6124 Not in the slightest. I never recommend Infinity to people in the hobby unless they've been playing games for a long time and are okay with diving deep into a single game.

@jonathanpickles2946

Күн бұрын

@@dominicparker6124 That's how I feel about Warmachine, I never quite got there with Infinity but appreciate why someone might love it

Hey man, I’m curious; did you play most (or any) of these, or did you just read them?

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

I played them. Most of them I played multiple times. But I appreciate the passive aggression. Very cool. 🤣

@tasty_wind4294

4 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle dude, I’m here from the TTRPG side; I’m used to people absolutely fawning over a game that they’ve only read. Can’t blame me for being skeptical.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

@@tasty_wind4294 I get it, but I mean, I don't really gain anything by lying. I'm not making money here. I'm not interested in hyping some random game up. Hell, I'd rather help people find games they don't like than games they do.

@tasty_wind4294

4 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle dude, you gained a sub from your honesty

I'm curious where people would place Car Wars 6th edition?

Dont know where you are, but it reminds me of home. Thanks! Never really played any miniature war games outside of some euro driven ones. Have done some chit/block wargames. I appreciate you bringing different interests within the hobby space to light. I think there is a ton of room to explore that people don't even know about.

@TabletopTurtle

22 күн бұрын

We were in BC at the time on one of the islands. There is certainly something for everyone in every niche hobby space, I think.

Another top tier, tier list! You absolutely nail these. Really need to check out Infinity still. Highly HIGHLY suggest checking out Company of Heroes 2nd Edition if you can. Been playing with other wargamers with very similar taste to this list and it is now their’s and my number 1 board game atm and is also the best RTS to board game adaptation out there. I’d also consider it a newb friendly wargame (closer to modern board game) but also one of the hardest to master. Still waiting for physical copies but it blew us away on TTS which is mind boggling with how fiddly TTS can be in its own right for these types of games.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Thanks! I love that video game so I'll take a look. Although I always thought the Men of War game series was better.

The world needed this video, thank you!

@TabletopTurtle

25 күн бұрын

Someone had to bless this world with this video! Seriously though, any time I saw someone's tier list of miniature games it was always so small!

I think that 40k is more about the hobby part of collecting, assembling and painting. Because this is what holds players in GW's grip, rather than a gameplay itself. I have a very big community of 40k in my town, but i barely see people playing it. I am myself play this game roughly once a month or two although i have 2 whole armies 4000 points each. And those who play competitive 40k are very different persons to just hobbiests who collect and play time to time. But i have to concider that the game is very deep. It was way deeper for prior edition GW just had to cut off a good chunk of game rules and mechanics for the 10th just so the newcomers could get into the system. The lore is also what make most people love this game. You friend was very right about "the whole different army" thing because they are different and not in like some minor parts of the gameplay, but the whole experience.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

Yeah, I do love the hobby aspect of mini gaming more than anything. I like seeing what's coming out next or what's new on the shelves.

@storploin3860

3 күн бұрын

You sound like me about a year ago - Warhammer minis are great but the game not really being that big of a thing for me. Then I discovered OnePageRules, and ho boy did I start playing a lot of games. Try checking it out - the core rules are free and literally 1 page (front+back) long, there's a skirmish or mass scale version for both fantasy and scifi (they're mutually compatible though, funny enough). Worth trying out with a buddy and seeing if you find it more fun.

Did you ever try Core Space? It is amazing. Like playing an open word computer game. You can do anything you can think off during the game. Very heavy on rules (due to being able to do much) But once you get the hang of it: so much fun!

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

I'll have to give that a look. We do REALLY enjoy dense games in this house, provided that density and complexity is offering a shit-ton of strategy and depth.

Some games missed the spotlight: - Black Seas - Fallout Factions (it's brand new, so understandable) - Heavy Gear Blitz - Firefight - SAGA - Wild West Exodus Also, I'd suggest presenting the games alphabetically for the next ranking.

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

I was looking at wild west for awhile but the hobbyist in me was worried I'd be making more terrain I'd only use for one game haha

Enjoyed the humor and honest takes.. Great look at a spread of games that often don't get much light. I'm amused by the people who get annoyed when you don't like 'their' game enough. These are opinions, we're not all going to agree on a tier list.. And that's OK. You can still enjoy the game you like. Interesting discussion in general and brought some titles to my attention. Good stuff

@TabletopTurtle

10 сағат бұрын

Yeah it doesn't bother me too much because I know I'm not being personally attacked and I totally understand the passion for a specific game. I know my eye twitches a little when people talk shit about the things I love but that's what makes these games so special. If they appealed to everyone they would just be so bland.

Happy to see Malifaux at the top :) I have yet to find a wargame (or any game) that I think is better.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

There isn't. Stop searching. It's like I said, I might acknowledge Infinity (which I also love) as better game with WAY more depth . . . but man there is just something about Malifaux that provides way more joy, despite it also being a very strategic and dense game itself.

Honestly completely disagree with BMG on the D-List. I feel where you're coming from on the edition overhaul, I know it irks me when people tell me 3E is better than 2E but that's because I don't see it as a competition on a games quality but more each edition is more apples and oranges. I have fond memories of my Freeze Crew in 2E and I also have good fun memories of playing Freeze is 3E. With that being said I don't see it as 3E completely removing the elements you liked but more changed the goal posts. I also liked the pre-game counter system but I found it more that it wasn't a board gamey mechanic but more a role-playing one, nor do I see it as taken away but more went purely into attack and defence. Where you need to role-play out the attack and defence dice. I also like the card/deck building system as I feel that each crew doesn't really play samey and plays to the machiavellian schemes of the hero's and Villains. Freeze turns the board into a winter Wonderland, Joker wishes to inflict pain and have the last laugh, Harley is about vandalising the board, Batman's about solving the clues, Bane is about modern Tac Ops and domination, Court is about assassinations, Scarecrows about spreading the fear toxin and terrfying foes, etc. There's very little I see that makes BMG "bland" or "generic". The fault I find more isn't the game itself but more KM as a whole. Community's clique, KM take goodwill for granted, accessibility issues, their rep. The list could go on. It's a shame because I feel Batman is the best ruleset for itself out there but it's held back by KM being KM.

@TabletopTurtle

5 күн бұрын

Man I got banned on their official forums so fast and I was so polite too! The problem is I just really like that mechanic. It's what sold me.

@vectorstrike

4 күн бұрын

I like BMG a lot. On the other hand, Knight Models isn't the best company to manage a game with such big IP. But the game is pretty fun!

I love videos like this. Short, to the point, good stuff, bad stuff and a rating. If my fave game get's trashed I don't mind. In fact often I can agree with why it was disliked. And I learn about new games. Aristeia! and Moonstone both sound good. Agnostic miniature rules always welcome. Subscribed.

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

Aristeia isn't supported any longer but you can usually find the stuff fairly cheap and it's a good stand alone game that's easy to bust out for none mini gamers. Moonstone is pricey, fair warning, but thankfully you don't need a lot of minis to play.

Great video! I mostly agree with your rating, but if you like Infinity, you should definitely try Warzone (either edition) as Infinity borrowed a lot (like A LOT) from it.

@TabletopTurtle

12 күн бұрын

I'll have to take a look! Although I'm disappointed by the lack of cute anime girls with guns! So my army will likely need some modifications.

You should try out Star Wars: Armada. It was created by FF same as X-wing and, unlike X-wing, did not get totally reworked by AMG. Has the unique movement style to it and tactical fleet combat that's a blast to play. I like to think of it as chess in space.

@TabletopTurtle

13 сағат бұрын

It never took off like X-Wing did. I wonder why that is.

I can download the chart?

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

It's just from a website. I think it was the first result when I googled tier kust maker.

I recommend Pulp Alley, a miniatures agnostic system that let you play out pulp adventures between 1-4 players with leagues of thematic characters. Its not a hard system to learn and is flexible.

Have you played Star Wars Armada? I was surprised it did not make your list of games you reviewed

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

I was told that it's basically a slightly more advanced version of X-Wing but with a larger scale in mind and that didn't really interest me, so I avoided it.

@steveisaak4320

29 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle ah you were told incorrectly. It is way more interesting. As your ships sizes increase, you project moves out two or more turns. Great game so sad that Asmodee did to these two games

@clontroper5

26 күн бұрын

​@@TabletopTurtleit actually has very little in common with X-wing other then being star wars, and haveing similar art and stuff because FFG made both

I was hoping to hear some thought on The Silver Bayonet and Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander.

@TabletopTurtle

26 күн бұрын

Hopefully I can get those games played some day. The problem is that someone in my city has to be playing or offering to do a demo for me.

Thank you for this VIDEO! Very Special ONE!

@TabletopTurtle

13 сағат бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

My one true love in miniatures games is Marvel Crisis Protocol. Such a thematic and fun game. I own almost all the models, and I've even painted some of them. xD A few of my buddies are into Malifaux, so I'm getting a demo game in next weekend. Looking forward to that because that game seems super fun. I've dabbled in Warcry, Monsterpocalypse, and Star Wars Shatterpoint, but none of those games have really taken off locally. I will say that the new edition of Kill Team is MUCH better than the 2018 one you mentioned in the video. I don't blame you for dropping that one, the whole game was very at odds with itself. It was like playing big 40k but awkwardly shoved into a skirmish mold that just didn't fit. The new edition is a completely different game made from the ground up to be its own thing. It has one of the best melee combat systems I've seen in a skirmish game where you alternate applying your successful roles as either hits or parries. There's also a very interesting system where you can set your models as either engaged so you can shoot/charge, or concealed so that they're harder to shoot at. My main complaints with Kill Team 2.0 are that it's overpriced (GW game), the line of sight rules are over complicated and unintuitive, and the rules are overly wordy (GW game). I would put it solidly in B-tier and it is by-far Games Workshop's best 40k game system.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Don't tell Atomic Mass Games but I only own the base set and a few expansions. I 3d printed and painted A TON of Marvel minis to play in the game. I'm a bad person. Hopefully you enjoy Malifaux. It's really tough when you first start. Yeah people keep praising the new Kill Team but I likely won't bother going back. I'm not the biggest GW fan so a game needs to be really damn good to get my cash when it's made by them.

Malifaux and Infinity at S Tier? This guy knows his stuff!

I’m glad BT is high up but I’m sad one of my favourite games isn’t here (although it’s obscure so it would be more surprising to be included) dystopian wars :(

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

Why is it your favorite? What's special about it?

I would be interested in your ratings for two games by Rackham that I used to play a lot of. AT-43 and the original Confrontation (NOT Age of Ragnarok). The former had completely prepaid miniatures which were pretty awesome, and I still don't know how they were able to achieve that quality on some of them, and the latter has probably some of the coolest fantasy miniatures I've ever seen (werewolves in full plate mail). I got into that game because I wanted to paint the miniatures and realized it had a really awesome game attached to it.

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

That's always a good way to get people into a miniature game, that's for sure. I know what made me approach that Infinity table was the big werewolf with the giant pistol! I haven't played those games, unfortunately. I'm not sure I've seen anyone at my local stores playing them.

The only rating that "triggered" me was Blood Bowl. I've always thought that it was one of GW's best rulesets (it's essentially a risk mitigation game), and the fact that it is even competing against more modern rulesets probably says something about it.

@deankirkpatrick7658

2 күн бұрын

We only play the 7's version, faster play.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

Yeah I can see that. I'm just not sure what mechanics are there that can make it go toe to toe with contemporary games in regards to uniqueness.

@michaelschlossarczyk2459

2 күн бұрын

How much BB have you actually played? The beauty of the game is derived from easy to grasp but decisive rules that provide for a great depth of play. In contrast you rated games higher that suffer from bloated special rules and bolted in mechanics.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

@@michaelschlossarczyk2459 BB? Maybe four games total? Those rulesets are bloated to you because perhaps you fail to see their beauty and necessity to the play experience and the depth that they provide. Some people like a simple ruleset and that's okay. I prefer more depth and sometimes that depth comes at the cost of more rules. I rated those games higher because they're better games, in my opinion.

@terlshockley442

22 сағат бұрын

​@@TabletopTurtleI'm sorry you didn't have a good experience trying Blood Bowl it is a brutal game that will not ask for forgiveness when it crushes your spirit and that sounds exactly like what happened. The beauty of the game is found at tournaments because of the development aspect of the individual players (minis) and during leagues because of the roleplaying elements.

Hi! liked a lot your video, is great to find someone that could play so many wargames. As a board gamer I only have have aristeia! that I liked it good enough. Recently I've played warhammer 40k, but I've felt the game had too many manuals, factions, too much collectible things and was too long or felt kind of antiquate with so many dice rolls for 1 attack. but it left in me a kind of hunger to playing more wargames. Could you recomend me one that are not that collectible or factions focused, that I can play with friends with me only owning it and it wouldn be so farfetched be able to get everything and have enough variety by myself? I'm really attracted to battletech as I really love mechs and futuristics setting.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

I genuinely think Marvel Crisis Protocol is the best bet for exactly what you're describing. Factions, or teams in MCP, are VERY lose. So you can just grab whatever models you like and let your friends draft their own teams on game day. What's cool is it matches exactly what you find in the comics. Seriously, what comic team has Wolverine and Deadpool NOT been in at this point!? What you describe is exactly how I play most of my miniature games. I own everything and my friends play what I own.

9th age? 😅

You might want to look into the miniature skirmish game Burrows & Badgers. Blitz Bowl is everything you wanted in Blood Bowl, but streamlined, smaller, much quicker game.

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

Burrows & Badgers looks fun to paint!

As someone who plays both BattleTech and Blood Bowl, I find it ironic that you criticize randomness and checking tables every 5 minutes in blood bowl and give it a D, but you give BattleTech (a literal game of tables within tables) an A rating. They're both good games, but it's an odd inconsistency when there is a hell of a lot more randomness in what happens to a mech in combat compared to a Blood Bowl player during a game

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

Nostalgia, esthetics, and miniatures.

New Kill team is much better, hated the first edition, second edition is much better. As far as x wing, 2 edition was amazing, adding force powers, new factions. Yes getting the conversation kits was annoying, but most people only needed 1 or 2. And waiting till they were on sale, I bought them very cheap some years ago. Unfortunately it's no longer going to be produced so there is that, and getting ships is going to get harder, and harder to find. But the community is sounding like it's going to try and carry it forward through 3d printing and rules adjustment.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Maybe I'll update my stuff and try again in X-Wing. I do like the idea of having a really approachable mini game for non mini gamers with a theme that a lot of people can relate to and appreciate. I'll have to find somewhere with some good scans on the cards so I can just print them out or find ways to replicate the components through printing.

Blood bowl at D tier? lol who taught this game to you? Maybe it was in an old edition you played, but the only way a player is out is if they get their armor breaks, then you roll 10+ for a casualty and then they only miss the next game if you roll I think a 9+ on a d16. It happens.... but its really really not likely to... but you are correct in that the game in its true glory must be played as a season. The game is also not very random imo. its a dice heavy game sure, but you know exactly the risk/reward and probability of each roll and there are several skills and paid for re-rolls that let you try to pass a bad roll. Its all about risk assessment and tactical positioning. hopefully you give it another go some day. for me its S tier

@TabletopTurtle

13 сағат бұрын

I wish I liked it but I'm happy you enjoy it. I should stream a game on here some time.

Played 40k once, reviews it. 40k has some great strength; endless replayability, with factions and dynamics objectives changing each encounter significantly, and no other sci-fi game looks anywhere near as spectacular on the battlefield

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

You're acting like this was a 40 minute deep dive into Warhammer. I'm happy you enjoy it. But it's just not a good game but I'm happy for what it has done for the industry. Lots of people like Monopoly too and that's totally okay. I'm happy wargaming has its own Monopoly.

@Marco48375

4 күн бұрын

@TabletopTurtle just thought it lacked any highlight of the good stuff, which some of the other dislikes did get. Fun video though, I should give Infinity another chance.

@11AleZZ

3 күн бұрын

40k it's love/hate game, I like it but it's a mess of rules, with the constant changes, balances and a FAQs, you need a ton of time and patience to really enjoy it.

@ruas4721

2 күн бұрын

40k is repetitive, factions lost a lot of character in 10th edition, units are completly exchangeable because profiles have no reasonable logic anymore, mission play is always the same with random secondaries wich are bad design, modern designs are mostly boring especialy Marines. Combine this with dumb prices, bad bundles, balancing nightmares, lore destruction and a lot more and got one of the worst miniature games out there. GW players are like apple users, beside the fact that apple users actually get something that works for their money.

@mildlyderanged

Күн бұрын

Yeah sorry 40k is a bad game and has been a bad game for a long time. The lore and the excellent models do a lot of heavy lifting, though GDubs has been doing it's absolute best to break the first part of that. It's too bloated, too many rules and conflicting systems. Any game where you have to spend half the game reading a library of books to figure out what unit can do what is a bad game.

Pretty great list. I’ve played most of these and have similar feelings on most. You should give Judgement: Eternal Champions a try sometime. The only game where your experience seems wildly different from mine is Warmachine. I’m not sure if it’s a matter of game size or just how your games went but it’s definitely doesn’t sound like you got to play the way most people have. That said, I don’t think it’s the kind of game that’s going to appeal to your A tier, but it sounds like you had an exceptionally bad set of learning games.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

I'll have to try it again some time.

Thanks for this. I'd like to see somebody review just the minis themselves. I'm in the minority here in that I don't like to play the games but I do like to paint the minis. So many games have sub-par minis, lack of detail etc. The best I've seen are the ones included in Marvel Zombies, really solid and well crafted.

@thomgizziz

7 күн бұрын

nobody cares what you want but there are painting channels that might do that... go there.

@gamesdog9067

7 күн бұрын

@@thomgizziz All the best.

The entire point of this video is to stick Kill Team and 40K in C tier to farm rage😂

Ай бұрын

Seems like it 😛. I can see it with 40K as it sure ain't everyone's cup of tea and GW is GW but using the old version of Kill Team here feels kinda disingenuous as you cant even buy it anywhere at this point.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

I spent an hour talking about games and dozens of hours editing to piss off a few Warhammer people. You got me! lol I think with GW I sometimes feel like I'm being sold more of a product than a game. Maybe I'll try the new Kill Team . . . but probably not. I still have yet to see it offer anything new or interesting.

@mn01_

Ай бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle at least you can admit it 🙃 But yes, they are absolutely selling a family of products. GW is an IP led company and they’re sell Warhammer toilet paper if they thought somebody would buy it. It’s a good business model but doesn’t necessarily make good games

@DogseatDogs

Ай бұрын

@@mn01_ It makes TabletopTurtle seems less honest and objective. Also kind of hypocritical when he is trying to anger certain Warhammer people and criticizes GW like that.

@stylesheetra9411

28 күн бұрын

40k doesnt even deserve C tier to be honest

You should look at Warcrow. New game from Corvus Belli. I have an early copy, come to Ottawa and I'll run you a demo. Or I can come to whatever cottage you filmed this at, lol.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

Yeah they have a few new games I have yet to check out. I'm so afraid they will wear themselves thin and stop making Infinity or something. Yeah we could set something like that up. I'd imagine Warcrow is fantasy Infinity. We were actually in BC visiting Kim's family.

@TylerProvick

Ай бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle separate team, I think Infinity is safe. I honestly not sure what I'm going to do. I've been playing infinity every Friday for over a year now. I don't really want to stop, but a fantasy skirmish game with Aristeia dice and CB mini quality is hard to resist.

I'm not exactly the kind of guy who demands that everyone like the same things i do, but i find your take on Warmachine to be...baffling. It's like everything you disliked about it was completely opposite of reality, to the point where you might as well have been talking about a different game. Wacky.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

This is definitely the most repeating comment. I might have to give it another shot, perhaps.

@mikefish1124

2 күн бұрын

@TabletopTurtle I don't know - you seem so psychologically dead set against it, I'm not sure a repeat would help you? Not saying you are some sort of close-minded person, but sometimes folks just have such a negative experience, that it taints all future interactions. So while the game is easily probably the best out of all you just listed, I'm not sure it's for you, man. Probably just keep playing what you currently like, you know?

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

@@mikefish1124 Makes sense to me. I mean, shit, we all are starving for more free time and we only have so much to give to the things we enjoy.

I gotta check out Sails of Glory because Master and Commander is one of my favorite movies ever. I looked into getting back into X-Wing Miniatures (still have a bunch of 1.0 ships), but from what I could gather from what I was seeing online is that the game was pretty badly mis-managed - I wouldn't be surprised if those expensive 2.0 upgrade kits alone heavily splintered the playerbase. I believe I read X-Wing and Armada were officially discontinued a few months ago as well.

Great Malifaux moment: tabled my opponent's gremlins tun 5. Lost the game because he managed to capture VP thru objectives. Between the cool yet weird card mechanics, cool miniatures with great models rules, fun lore and a cool setting. Agreed that Infinity is fun, but when a ruleset is more involved than most college-level courses, you might have a bit of rules bloat.

@TabletopTurtle

28 күн бұрын

Yeah Malifaux is cool because you can get beat down but still win because at the end of the day it's all about those objectives. Infinity is a game I'd rage if they ever attempted to simplify it. I want tons and tons of rules because those rules provide an endless supply of tactics and options. It's not for everyone, but if someone takes the time to learn the system, there is no going back!

Warhammer is a funny thing. It’s not a great game but people are committed to the franchise for all sorts of reasons: hobby, painting, community, competition scene, lore and litterature etc. I only paint, for instance, and play maybe twice a year. I cannot imagine painting anything else, because the designs and sculpts are on a level of their own.

@TabletopTurtle

4 күн бұрын

Painting is a super cathartic experience. Couldn't live without it.

I see you like skirmish games. To me, if I'm not putting at least 2 dozen models down, it feels like I'm putting more time into making the terrain board than I am making my army, which always feels like a weird time investment mismatch.

@TabletopTurtle

3 күн бұрын

I actually love the terrain aspect of it as well. I'll never understand the slapped together terrain. I think because I play multiple games so I'm using one piece of terrain a lot so I want it to look goos

Man those wave sounds get really really grating after an hour. Wish they weren't so loud

@TabletopTurtle

23 күн бұрын

My bad! They didn't provide that ASMR experience!?

@bryce7344

23 күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle At first I didnt notice it, it just blended into the background/your voice, but then I started *really* noticing it, I'm not into ASMR so I can't say if it properly provided that experience, maybe that's why I disliked it.

No Warcaster? You should try this game, it has some really nice mechanics and beautiful Minis!

@TabletopTurtle

20 күн бұрын

I'll have a look!

The current version of Kill Team is a completely new game and much different from the older version.

@anab0lic

Ай бұрын

Only marginaly better tbh, relatively speaking still worse than a lot of other games on this list.

Ай бұрын

​@anab0lic Eh, have to disagree. If Infinity is ranked so highly the current Kill Team deserves a rank below it easily.

@anab0lic

Ай бұрын

hell no, GW doesn't make good games. Their games lack tactical and strategic depth are horribly imbalanced and just far too simplistic.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

So I hear. I'm happy the game is in a better state for the Warhammer fans out there, but the updates don't seem to add anything interesting.

Ай бұрын

@@anab0lic How many games of the current Kill Team have you played?

Dark Age was a fantastic game. But I played it as a post-infinity game so the ease was a great counterpoint

Blood bowl a D?! LOL i consider it a beer and pretzels game like you do, space hulk. But i do not consider space hulk one haha. Regarding Batman... Why wouldn't you stay with the old rules? Nobody forces you to play the new version. Your list is SO fascinating!! I can't figure out what you like. Lol

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

I tell you exactly what I like in the video LOL I abandon mini games if the publisher releases bad rulesets because it means I can't enjoy the new releases, which for myself, is a big part of my enjoyment of the hobby.

@CarbonBallas

Ай бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle very cool. I meant to say predict which games do you like based on prior rankings. I really enjoyed the video a lot even when I didn't agree with some of the rankings!

This is Not a Test is worth a try! Its a cool post apocalyptic skirmish game!

Pretty much agree with your list except that you should revisit Kill Team. Sorry to rehash that, I'm sure you're sick of seeing so many comments coming from our rabid fan base. It is high B or low A roughly, no way it is better than Malifaux, MCP or Infinity. Oh, and you should try the Quar game.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

But i already sold my gellerpox! I bet a big part of my problems came from playing a fairly boring faction too

I fell into 40K. Just wanted to hang out with my friends more. Definitely fell into the plastic crack. Spending too much armies. I do have three different armies but I wised up and was doing eBay or some of them are 3D printed. But for me being my first tabletop game I really enjoyed it. It was definitely a learning curve but after two games I have figured it out and I constantly just think about what I can do different or what I can do new in the next game that I want to play. Only if I ever have with 40K is I don't have enough time to play lol

Some realy hot takes here .... Bushido on the same level like Warcry? Star Wars Legion so low and on the same level like 40k? Dont feel that decissions :D

@TabletopTurtle

Күн бұрын

I'd play bushido over warcry and legion over 40k.

Well done video. Good to see other people's opinion on games they have tried and what they are looking for. The 1990's version of Necromunda (original version) I found fun. I heard the newer versions took most of the fun out of the game. GW peaked in the 90's as far as making fun and interesting games. Ever since the 90's GW has been on a slow march into mediocrity for game play and rules.

@TabletopTurtle

3 күн бұрын

I thought that too but I wondered if maybe it was just rose tinted glasses being a kid and seeing these crazy sculpts and wacky lore

Checkout Cyberpunk Combat Zone. Interesting & different rules compared to Infinity. Easier to learn. Also Test of Honour, simple but complicated Samurai skirmish game.

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

I'll have a look!

You should check out Quar

@TabletopTurtle

5 күн бұрын

I'll have a look. You're like the third person to recommend

I agree with Blood Bowl. It's a miniature game i first got into and the one I play the most, but i just can't recommend it to anyone new. I only feel comfortable recommending it to Games Workshop players because the rules are that bad/convoluted.

Hi TT, I am a 50yo fan of miniature table top and board games (There is a very thin line now between this 2) I have played 85% of the games you listed and I agree 100% with you, Malifaux and infinity, Yes definetly the best, but I do not play them anymore. Huge fan of Samurai games, and yes agree on Bushido, but I do not play this anymore. Have played Marvel crisis protocol and even this game did not beat my favorite miniature game of all time, yes I know is not perfect but the newest rule system is perfect for me, is fast paced, for casual play is fun and fantastic and for me is the best power rulewise of the market, I am talking about Heroclix, the minis are way better than a few years ago and you can repaint them if you feel like. Anyway, you can give Heroclix an opportunity and put it in your next video. I droped from Bushido the moment I played Senjutsu, battle for Japan, what a game! I think is the best samurai related so far. Other miniature games not on your list: Wild West Exodus, Okko Chronicles, A lot of people put 6 Siege under miniature game and I agree (This one is on my radar) Heavy gear blitz. Upcoming: Corvus belli Warcrow. Discontinued: AT-43 one of my favorite games.

@TabletopTurtle

2 күн бұрын

I'm keeping a close eye on warcrow for sure. As to heroclix, I'm not sure I want another lighter mini game and I did play mechearrior a lot which I believe uses a lot of the same rules as hero clix.

@manuelrabago6243

Күн бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle Yesterday surfing random Gencon videos, pum!!! Steamforged games bought warmachine, I love that game, stopped playing because the transition between MK3 and MK4 was so fast for me and they introduced the grimkyn a faction that imitates Malifaux plus they make the game full armies, I loved the skirmish part of it, but if the rules are well made and steamforge do a good player base I will return. Cheers!

Kill team 2 is best thing GW make ever

@TabletopTurtle

10 күн бұрын

Better than the Tower of Despair on Commodore 63?!?! You're crazy!

you missed another mech game Heavy gear blitz and Mantic other wargames Dead zone and dread ball and No Drop fleet commander or drop zone commander?

@TabletopTurtle

13 сағат бұрын

Do you think Drop is superior to X-Wing and Armada?

@Prinny9000

7 сағат бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle I can't say since I have to play ether of those two miniatures game and both are rather unpopular in my area

I think "Melee" & "Wizard" by Steve Jackson games. And "Song of Blade & Heroes' are the answer to getting new players in the genre and both are an S in my list.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

I'll have a look!

@Luchiop

Ай бұрын

@@TabletopTurtle melee is free

Interesting list - MESBG should definitely be S-Tier, and I would argue that Mordheim should be A at least as it's still played today! Great vid though.

@TabletopTurtle

7 күн бұрын

People do really love Mordheim and it has one hell of a cult following.

Mesbg is defs alive and well, its the red headed step child of the GW games so only gets a rules update after their "real" IPs. Huge scene in UK and AUS.

Heh I feel you on warhammer 40k. It sound so interesting but then you watch a battle report and I just don't find it engaging at all... So many dice rolls and for me rolling 15+ dice is not fun for me, so any desire to play warhmmer just poofs away. That being said blitz bowl is a blast.

-Others have pointed this out but you don't need a GM for Necromunda. Maybe you are confusing it with Inquisitor? -Tastes and colors and all that aside, it should go far above its tier here, as All out War (which is a better game than Last days, at least if you are going only by the base book and not including Seasons) and Fallout WW. Regarding Fallout, I didn't even get what issue you had with the game asides from not knowing how to approach it (which I can understand. it's way too big of a toolbox really). Re: battletech. I'm probably the biggest BT fan that I know (have all the box sets from the 80s up to the new ones) and will admit that it has no business being near the top of any tier list. It has its charm, but it's basically the same slow, math-heavy "spreadsheet-game" it was in the 80s.

@TabletopTurtle

Ай бұрын

That could be! I just enjoyed Days more than All out War; however, I know they are starting All out War up again so my hope is they'll revisit the ruleset and maybe make it a bit better.

The new kill team is absolutly amazing game. It has nothing to do with the old kill team. I honestly cant beleave that gw was able to make a good game like that.

@TabletopTurtle

5 күн бұрын

I'll have a look some day, promise.

I don't think middle earth is abandoned

@DogseatDogs

Ай бұрын

It isn't. The last previews featured Middle Earth.

@TabletopTurtle

29 күн бұрын

That's good to hear!

Ok, firing up my commenting fingers.

Right there with ya on Blood Bowl.