looks like some one switched up jason kidd's shot chart with kyle korver's.

@ryanhorejsi2010

6 жыл бұрын

yoshi k. tsumi yeah

@pietersourbron2528

5 жыл бұрын

Senior kid had a shot chart like this

@Nomorehats

4 жыл бұрын

Nah j kidd always passes outta the post and in transition. He avg'd 10 points on 3s

basketball already uses different names for positions. Stretch 4, combo guard, wingman, point forward. It is already acknowledge that most players can't be defined by one of the traditional positions. The graph was interesting though.

@raredreamfootage

6 жыл бұрын

Yes but those names aren't backed up by empirical data. This Ted Talk does. That is what makes this so interesting. These are the true positions of the 2013 season.

@wwefanman1000

6 жыл бұрын

raredreamfootage they're not though they're roles that a player Excel in to gain an advantage on another team either with floor spacing, defense, ball handling,or whatever edge that a certain line up gives you at the time. sports is about matchups and if a certain line up gives a better chance of winning you play that lineup

@jamesminer5331

5 жыл бұрын

They call me a wing

@donaldli4755

5 жыл бұрын

@@raredreamfootage Cute that you think scouts don't use data at all

Did anyone else stop watching after he called James Harden a two way all star😂

@henrykrueger1378

4 жыл бұрын

I paused, but it was published in 2013 and I've heard that Harden used to play better defense.

@henrykrueger1378

4 жыл бұрын

@@acer7217 For real? Didn't know that. I had always heard he used to be much better defensively, but I obvious didn't do much research into that lol.

Hes obviously smart but he describes harden as a two way all star and kyle lowry as a defensive ball handler which is totally wrong

@Imfim

7 жыл бұрын

He don't call it that way but that was the way the statistical model suggest, eg. Harden has similar advanced stats as Kobe. Also, Harden's defense actually better than his reputation suggested and Lowry's defense actually quite good for a point guard. In 2016 Olympic, it becomes apparent replacing Kyrie with Lowry in the game increase the overall team defense tremendously.

@IID

7 жыл бұрын

^ what he said... dont shoot the messenger...

@dionysianapollomarx

6 жыл бұрын

That was actually true in the 2012-2013 season. You would be surprised if you re-watched their games in OKC and whatever Lowry's team was before Toronto.

@dionysianapollomarx

6 жыл бұрын

And that was still true even through the 2014 season. The year after that was a negative turnaround.

@jackoo666

6 жыл бұрын

thats what i was gonna say. harden is famous for not playing defense. I thought of him as more of an inside outside scorer. draymond green is what i think of as a defensive ball handler

This is how 2k archetypes started

@kingexclusivo

6 жыл бұрын

Konrad Burza --- That's Ronnie 2k's twin brother

@justvibin4267

6 жыл бұрын

A.R.S. Moves 😂

What he doesn’t understand is that coaches are smart enough these days to know just cuz Ryan Anderson is a power forward doesn’t mean he plays like Zach Randolph. Nowadays positions do not determine playstyle, and it’s not cuz of this guy

@shaft9000

5 жыл бұрын

And position never DID determine play style; just who you're matching up against. What's changed is that players are not designated a 'zone' of responsibility anymore - so centers can roam and 4s can stretch. It's not like Bob MacAdoo had to change the rulebook (or anyone's mind, even) to be a stretch-4 in 1970s. He just DID it.

Since when do NBA teams play a one size fits all defense? When teams face guys like Curry they go over the screen and for guys like John Wall they go under. His ideas have been applied in basketball for as long as I can remember just with the traditional position names.

@jacobmulholland5123

5 жыл бұрын

ikr, this guy acts like he just invented gameplanning

Mr. Alagappan, this is truly a new and novel approach to a game that has been changing in all aspects for decades. It is a fresh approach that opens my eyes to the possibilites for revolutionizing the game and deal with ever developing players at all levels. I have often been asked the question, "Coach I'm 5'10 and what is my best position to play? Too often players are positioned as you mention, based upon their size. Great presentation and I hope you have an effect on the game. Good luck!

he did not lose the ball because he was "bad at the point guard position," he lost it because he had weak ball handling, low confidence, and maybe he should have just told somebody on his team (especially if they had a coach, who would have known already) that he wasn't up to bringing the pall up the court. I am a dedicated basketball player who trains and plays very often, and I dont think i can relate to this at all. He doesnt sound like he worked on his game much and that is key in basketball

@NewNormalWorldOrder

6 жыл бұрын

skater5045 Yeah like get good at ball handling. Duh. Lmao

@rickyslick586

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah i completely agree

@justvibin4267

6 жыл бұрын

I agree

@ballerevolution4735

6 жыл бұрын

skater5045 yea positions were only created so a novice could follow the game

@alexilim2144

Жыл бұрын

I agree

Im sorry man. How in the world is jason kidd just a 3pt specialist

@brownfood5365

3 жыл бұрын

Because in his 2013 he was

Magic Johnson: 2.06 PG Charles Barkley: 1.98 PF Focus on improve, dont blame not being tall enough.

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

what are the numbers?

@navia810

5 жыл бұрын

@@sclom5676 height in meters

@sclom5676

5 жыл бұрын

that makes senses

Great comments here, one issue I have is the original comparison made between the 3 PGs, he took 2 of them well out of their primes when they were drastically different players (especially Kidd)

The ball was not stolen everytime because you were bad at point guard, it's because you need to work on your ball handling skills such as crossovers, behind the back, and through the legs, etc... sports requir fast mental thinking, talent, and much more. Simply giving up on a position just because you don't practice your ball handling skills isn't right. I myself am a center, I do miss a lot of shots, but I don't give up because I can't make a basket, I persevere and go up with purpose to score.

@raptorsfan8546

6 жыл бұрын

STEELER NATION you clearly don't know anything

@nickoap4183

6 жыл бұрын

Raptors Fan why thank you

@JACKnaina

6 жыл бұрын

STEELER NATION yeah that's like telling DeAndre Jordan to practice his 3's c'mon man!

I dont think he really knows basketball as well as everybody thinks. Positions, and especially the labels of the positions, barely matter in basketball. all he made me believe was that instead of him practicing to make himself a a better ball handler or working on the skill set that would always make him the clear choice for whichever position he wanted to play (which again usually happens way more naturally then he lets on) somebody should have tailored a game plan or position type for him.

Says Jason Kidd has PostUp Ability as a dominant trait... shows a shooting chart of all 3pt shots.

These are just names. A smart coach knows where to put their players because he knows their strength/weaknesses. A smart team knows how to effectively use its players. We are moving into an era of positionless basketball. Names are irrelevant

I was a 3 point Shooting Center up until grade 11 and then because of my size 6'2 I changed to a 3 point shooting point guard (I called myself a swing guard). When I was a 3 point shooting Center I was not allowed to shoot a 3 point shot, on my school team, but on my traveling team I could. I was a 50% 3 point shooter. I will make a video soon about position-less basketball as I feel it could benefit many coaches and players.

A roster isn't about positions, it's about compatibility between players to have the widest range of skills on the court at the same time

The point about the topographical mapping is the most important. I can't imagine how much that's improved in 4 years

This is the problem with dudes who never really hooped seriously, different or unique roles and styles of play had already been accepted and used back in 2013 and then you get captain obvious who got cut cause he was short and wasn't good enough to come up with a graph to say what all real ball players are already very well versed in even in 2013. Thanks for coming to my tedTalk

This awesome and a really innovating approach; I really appreciate the science behind it. However I think it's over complicating something that doesn't have to be. This is my take on modern basketball: Guards: PG's and SG's with PG capabilities Swingmen: SG's and SF's that would start at no.2 or no.3 positions Forwards/Stretch 4's: SF's and PF's that would start at no.3 or no.4 positions Big Men: C's and PF's that would start at no.4 or no.5 starting 5 lineups have some sort of combination of these that are tailored to each NBA team.

That was not jason kidd shot chart.

What he is describing is what most decent coaches do starting at a little league level even. It's evaluate the talent you have, then tailor an offense/defense/play calling to accentuate the talent. It is what has happened since good coaches have been around, so basically forever.

Back then, Curry was changing the game. The beginning of the three-point era.

This is exactly his point. This "combo guard" would have a specific name that what show what this player did best on the court. Same with Magic. He was a good ball handler and good rebounder and would probably be categorized in the same position as jason kidd.

A nerd justifying why he can't dribble

@pedroSilesia

6 жыл бұрын

perfect description

@obash14

6 жыл бұрын

Pretty much

@justvibin4267

6 жыл бұрын

Yep

@danielroth6575

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@arkadiuszrogala1359

5 жыл бұрын

JJ Roffler yeah Wtf is he gonna do at a decent level at his size if he can’t dribble? I promise I’m not bad!

and this is what happened long ago, Demarcus cousins is a Center/shooting guard, Giannis is a PG/PF, Lebron is a PG/SF...nothing new.

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

umm did i hear you right abut boogie?

That was awesome. So insightful and engaging.

The thing is basketball players develop their skill sets based on which one of the five "traditional" positions they fall into. However, many NBA players have skillsets which overlap with two or more of the five "traditional" positions (Carmelo Anthony plays and Paul George are two such examples)

This was a real good video especially I played basketball in high school but no college. I didn't get any playing time in high school because coach exact words were "We don't know where to put you". I was a 2 and 3 way player. Thank you for this video opened up my eyes

@figaro2362

6 жыл бұрын

James Yasharael what is a three way player? The term two way player usually means they play both offence and defence, there is no third phase. This isnt football. Lol

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

that really means there is no place on my team for a guy who plays like you we have a play style set in place already that you could not be a part of. it was probably a situation where he use this position in one way and since he used it that way he would have to completely change his offensive scheme to bring you on to the team and have you be effective.

What would be much better for Ayasdi to do is to show how the positions have evolved over time, and then predict by taking into account current high school and college players so the future game can be predicted much better. This will increase the chances that team owners will pick the right players for the game type they want to play.

I'm a mid range big man but in the real world, I'm just called a center. For real though the game has moved on since 2013. Look at the 76ers. Their 7 foot center takes more 3 point shots than their 6'10 point guard lol. Also, he called JAMES HARDEN as a TWO WAY all star...c'mon.

@yoshikatsumi6365

6 жыл бұрын

embiid is not 7'3

@fivesquaredyt2521

6 жыл бұрын

Same

James Harden is a textbook inside outside scorer. Thank you very much

Coaches and professionals already know the positions cannot be defined simply by the 5 basic positions. However, this is still a revolutionary method. There was never a 'tool' that could help with establishing the 'positions.' It was typically done within the minds of the coaches and pros. This method could provide concrete evidence for coaching.

4 years later and this video predicted the NBA

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

already like that really

Why are we not doing this. This could really change the very dimension of basketball

@krisvincent

7 жыл бұрын

Juwan Evans many nba teams now use analytics. mavs and Celts were the first if im not mistaken

I liked this up until the bit where he started naming players into his categories and seemed to get every second one wrong

wonderful content

Great talk! I don't understand why people are complaining. I learned quite a bit from this. Never looked at all of these evolving positions from this perspective. Thanks!

What does the data say to do against the Curry-Durant pick and roll? How do you defend against two elites that can score effectively inside or outside if you give them just a breath of extra room? You pray they miss.

@PNL1992

6 жыл бұрын

Dom Trinh Two decent sized defenders and just switch on the pick...

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

then steph will murder the bigger guy in an iso

Great talk! Also, positionless basketball is gaining quite a lot of attention nowadays especially with some of the best teams in the NBA using this 'philosophy' in their schemes. Using versatile players like Lebron that could play different positions effectively has really changed the way the game is being played.

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

it still isn't position-less lebron is still a small forward just one that plays in a different way than larry bird

In a way he is still putting a label on positions. "Paint protector"; is that ALL that position does? "Inside/outside scorer"; does that mean they don't have to defend? "2-way all-star" implies that the player is an all-star level scorer and defender (harden is not known as a defender). But the definition of "scorer" is less defined than the "inside/outside scorer", so what does it mean? Can they score inside AND outside? It seems like he is trying to make position names more descriptive (which as I've tried to point out, can sometimes seem restrictive). But I think there is much work to do. And he seems to forget that not every team uses these positions like they are traditionally known. I've seen Power Forwards act more like Point Guards; Centers out on the perimeter looking for an inside pass (sometimes taking a shot from long range). I like the idea of focusing on skills, roles, and abilities. But is this guy just swapping one set of labels, for another?

I think the point Muthu is trying to get at is that the classic, fixed positions of basketball are extremely arbitrary. However, it is a little strange that people think his idea is a new one, coaches have been designing offenses and plays that fit around specific players and play styles for years, that's why lebron (SF) handles the ball more so then chalmers, or why nowitzki (C) hangs by the 3 point line more then most mavericks.

Why tf is James Harden a two way all star? Two way means defense and offense like Kawhi Leonard or maybe CP3. James Harden is known to only play offense and no defense

@kyle6160

5 жыл бұрын

AH Sniper this was in 2013 dude he actually played defence back then

@jacobmulholland5123

5 жыл бұрын

@@kyle6160 he wasn't a very good defender still. Definitely not good enough to be called two way.

This is an interesting information.

Wow. This is impressive

this is not taking basketball to the "next level" it can only take it to a different level.

End of the day this is bare complicated and nobody can be fucking arsed learning it

A guys whose a point guard, Small forward, and Center, is called a Point Forward. Ben Simmons, Lebron, Magic. Midrange big man, is a stretch 4. Point guard and shooting guard is a point forward.

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

you mean combo guard?

This dude. Prolly the reason 4 and 5 out is the new "meta" in the NBA as us gamers would call it. Really interesting stuff imo.

Only way people will stop saying PG-C is if ESPN does and I know they arent wasting their time changing every, past, present and future stat, and achievement

@enkeltrik9330

5 жыл бұрын

Well, they don't have 5 positions at the all-star game anymore, Brad Stevens said he only knows ballhandlers, wings and bigs and so on... people have stopped using those 5 positions LONG ago, in fact in the real basketball world, there was often no need for them, because they do not serve a purpose for most coaches and players. As you said it: ESPN uses them, which is because for fans and non-players, it's nice to have 5 positions so you have something more to talk about. There will always be players that fit a mold and on defense, you can mostly go through all those 5 positions, but in reality, they have never been there as much as most people think.

I understand what he's trying to say, but if a coach isn't already taking the "classic positions" and the "classic offenses" and working with the players they have inside those positions and offenses by tweaking it, then that team is usually losing. This isn't brand new info. As far as him being bad a point guard, it means his handle was weak, decision making was weak, and he never had a coach to train him. But he can't just be put under the basket in the hopes he'd be "better at it". Size does matter at least a little.

Wish this was 3 hours long

great talk, and interesting stats and comparisons! but don't you think teams already know how to effectively "use" their players?

Well he wants to have a position between center and small forward thats a damn power forward

"Mid range big man" we call that a stretch 4

Well, this was a bit before it's time!

Are assists used in determining his positions? He didn't mention them

I'm sure this has been happening for years on the court; there just aren't an extensive amount of labels as mentioned. I feel like it's just more simple to label the player from 1-5 along with appropriate sub-labels (i.e. stretch forward, combo guard, point forward, etc.). But awesome insight nonetheless.

He put ball handling and 3 pt shooter didnt say steph curry the 5 positions have been this way for years we just use these names to know the size of the player normally the only positions where the skills matter are SG and PG but everyone knows this already like victor oladipo he a SG but he plays inside mostly so i guess that point gaurd is the only one because point gaurds need ballhandling and good passing just playmakers

I guess that makes me a two way shooting forward.

this is where the idea of archetypes came from in 2k

I enjoyed it, but that talk was given in the wrong forum

I wonder if this talk stung giving it in Washington only a few years after they got the Sonics taken away from them?

Need to add: Steph Curry as Sharpshooting and playmaking.

This is great, I'm a taxonomist/biologist and a basketball player so I found this talk very important, we need to classify everything in order to understand it. Great talk.

Can I have these 15 minutes of my life back.

Crazy because this is exactly how the NBA or just basketball in general is now. Positions aren’t even important any more

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

it was really already like that

@imhaiden8464

5 жыл бұрын

Never was important, Dirk? Magic? Barkley? KD?

positioning the players based on physical appearance alone is one big premise to tackle in basketball. because above any advantage or disadvantages one brings due to one's height (or athleticism), ultimately, every basketball skills and techniques can be learned and polished no matter what your position is. terms to call a role of a player by the media and sports theory should not be the first thing in mind of anyone who wants to immerse him-or-herself into this sport. deciding what skill set and mastering its fundamentals will define the style of the play and the name of the role itself. and surely that's what all star players are doing. they don't settle in possessing one style of play just because they're being told to. shooting guards incorporates power into post play moves, big-man polishes their passing and dribbling skills or even shooting threes, a forward player commit oneself to be an elite defender; all because in reality, those techniques are what they realizes as necessary to compete with and against the other who already had it. they took initiatives to learn whatever they can brings out to the floor.

@user-lt4wz5yc2g

5 жыл бұрын

bubmah axr ححخخهت

What's the Y-axis on the graph at the end? Just seems like arbitrary data points.

height is important in basketball bro

He is correct that traditional positions are going out the window. However, if you are 6' tall than you aren't going to play anything other than PG in college or Professionally if you are lucky. Size matters for several positions. Now you can be tall and play down a spot but not the other way around unless you are Dennis Rodman or Charles Barkley. Those days have passed.

@TheKpowas

6 жыл бұрын

there's still a few guys who play up...one of the best all around players in the game today for example, Draymond Green.

@carlpatrickragas2159

3 жыл бұрын

Fred VanVleet also. Can't facilitate but an elite shooter and surprisingly good slasher.

People around basketball commonly use only 5 categories (or even 3 like NBA) not because of the bad understanding of this game or low development of analytics, it's just to simplify it for fans and others from outside of 'basketball circle'. Would it make more sense to give a game program including many new categories to a typical family? It's just a problem with youth coaches who stick to tall=C short=PG,that's being narrow minded and you need much more than new categories to change it.

This guy doesnt know what hes talking about, LBJ is a SF but occasionally plays like a PG, Charles Barkley was the height of a SG or SF but played PF. Nobody at a high level bases your position only off your height. Ben Simmons is a 6'10 PG etc. This guy is trying to justify why he can't dribble basically. He says he was a player but in the back it says "sports analyst" lmao.

@vimaln6613

5 жыл бұрын

Bro this vid was made in 2013 for god's sake, he doesn't have a time machine to know what would happen in the future. At that time LeBron must have been playing like how he told in the video. Don't blame this 5 years old video to not be relatabal cuz it won't be and don't cite examples that is newer, I guess Charles Barkley was an exception, but this kind of height discrimination is present in almost every sports, so yeah, go watch SB Nation if you want content relatable to the current basketball world or watch some other newer basketball based video

This was very interesting and insightful as a new way to approach positions, though I don't think coaches will directly find it useful, as it adds an enormous amount of formally defined complexity; that is not always received well. However, I do think those who do the actual quantitative analyses for the teams (like myself) will find this extremely useful. It can open up many doors as far as looking for optimal strategies/lineups. I would love to know what specific characterisics you used? I hope you don't just use basic boxscore stats to figure out defensive (or offensive, really) impact; blocks and steals aren't very good indicators at all of defense.

in what gym is 5'10 a pg??

@sclom5676

6 жыл бұрын

in most gyms people are normal sized so 5'10 could be anywhere from pg to pf

Weird how he kinda predicted the position-less NBA of today

It's 2018 it's pretty common knowledge that basketball is a positionless game

"Basketball Analytics" by Dr. Stephen Shea brought me here. Read it y'all

interesting...

Lastly, those are a wierd 10 ways to describe every player in the NBA, if your going to go all the way in on it

You are missing the point, he's just showing how players need to be evaluated differently. This is comparable to Billy Beane's "Moneyball" approach to picking his players in baseball.

A casual fan would say that they all love to pass

Look at Chris Paul's shot chart now lol

the positions don't mean anymore to the coaches than they do to us. we all know Chris Paul isn't a "traditional" pg etc. I think that coaches and management already know what players play with what style and therefore assign roles accordingly. At least the successful teams do. the rest is left to team chemistry and talent.

Point Guard is the ONLY position you have a shot of playing if you are SHORT because it can be done AWAY from the Basket where your LACK of HEIGHT is not a detriment. if you are short learn to dribble and not have the ball stolen or you will not be useful to your team and you will not play much. Of your 3 Point Guards,,, Jason Kidd is 6 feet 5,,, that is why he has Post Up ability. He has Forward Size and Point Guard Skills. You are WRONG about those 5 positions being IT. And it used to be 3 position 2 Guards and 2 Forwards and 1 Center. The Point Guard and the others did not develop into positions until later. In fact in the early 80's many programs had the 2 Guard and 2 Forward style instead of the 1, 2 3 4 ,5 splitting of positions. And today... there are Stretch 4's and Point Forwards, Quick forwards, Big Guard, and even other types of players developed into the game. You demonstrate you have never heard of a COMBO Guard and you don't that there are both High Post and Low Post Centers But there STILL will NEVER be a place for a Short Guy that cannot DRIBBLE the BALL at a high-level. Who is this Short Guy going to DEFEND and how is he going to be USEFUL to the team if someone else has to handle the Ball? Unless you can find a Tall Guy that has the ability to handle the ball who can trade off with him on Defense so the short guy can guard the Point Guard in the other team you still have a player you cannot use anywhere else. The short guy played at a Tall Guy position gets his shot Blocked by the Tall guy Defending him all day. You would have to find teams to play against with EXTRA short guys for him to Defend... how are you going to do that?

Boi wheres Magic

JESUS CHRIST IS THIS GUY KIDDING? IS HE IN THE LOOP OF BASKETBALL AT ALL? AN OFFENSE, ESPECIALLY A PROFESSIONALLY DESIGNED ONE, IS NOT TAILORED TO A TEAM BASED ON THE PLAYERS POSITION NAMES, ITS BASED ON HOW THEY PLAY, SO HOW IS WHAT HE SHOWED A "BRAND NEW OFFENSE"? DOES HE REALLY THINK THAT HE IS SHOWING A NEW WAY TO UTILIZE PLAYERS THAT PEOPLE WHO DO THAT FOR A LIVING (FOR DECADES MOST TIMES) HAVENT ALREADY CONSIDERED? DEFINITELY IGNORANT

man i am the tallest in my team all the time but i loved playing point guard but i couldn't

James Harden a two-way All Star?

hows he gonna call harden a 2 way all star

Jason Kidd is Steph Curry in his mind 😂😂

Omg, what is this madness. You build your game around your team ie which players you have

And now we have Giannis

Yeah, coaches have always known not to pigeon-hole players into certain positions. Magic Johnson is a great example. He played every position 1-5 on the court in one game. He started at center and finished the game at point guard. That's why basketball minds tend to use the terms 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 rather than the actual names of the positions nowadays.

Why do i feel that kobe knew it all the time

didnt mention the one-of-a-kinds

@FUJIIIYAMA

6 жыл бұрын

9some lmao you’re playing too much 2k

wait... why not john stockton?

@TheKpowas

6 жыл бұрын

my thoughts exactly..or magic johnson?

these positions are not useful for the game...maybe they are based on data,but still not useful...the new positions of basketball will come out of the"game" itself...already basketball tactics use new terms for describing the positions and i think they are a lot more useful...for example: combo-guard(1-2),swingman(2-3),mobile-5,rim-protector,3&D(3p shooter-good defender),defensive stopper,spot-shooter,strech-4,slashing guard,scoring guard,facilitator,combo-forward(3-4),point-forward(1-4 antetokounmpo,lebron) etc..... ...or as coach Pedoulakis suggests:there are only 2 positions in modern basketball...face/post up by the way, Harden is a two-way(???) allstar?how come...?defense is something unknown for James

I dont know if he makes sense or not, for some point he makes sense tho