How the post office could think that hundreds of people suddenly embezzled money from the post office simultaneously rather than think there might be something wrong with the new software system is totally unbelievable

@happyapple4269

5 ай бұрын

It is, which is why it has a whiff of a money heist.

@gregsmith1070

5 ай бұрын

Duh.....exactly 🤦🏻‍♂️. They are not terribly bright 😱

@davidredding1988

5 ай бұрын

They knew from the very start. The law needs to change to give these people justice.

@gregsmith1070

5 ай бұрын

@@davidredding1988 i suspect quite early on. What do you do as PO? Tough it out, ok if a few people perhaps, but it would be one clear it's a FU, not directly their fault, but a sharper mind there would identify a genuine issue. Its sad that many seem to be quite torpid

@mrmensa1096

5 ай бұрын

They KNEW !!!

I smell the fetid stench of a failed state.

@SampleTracks2224

5 ай бұрын

It's the cloying stink of arrogance, hubris and Dunning-Kruger.

@tomricketts7821

5 ай бұрын

Wait until the full effects of the national boomer temper tantrum called Brexit has its full effect and you’ll really see a failed state a bankrupt irrelevant country on the edge of Europe

When exposing a crime is treated as a crime,, you are being ruled by criminals.

Andrew Bridgen MP fought hard for these people so why isn't he being praised in any reports?

@rb1062

5 ай бұрын

Because he's the 'wrong sort of MP' to the establishment. Look at Ed Davey's attitude to his constituents who were caught up in this. Those nice 'social justice' warriors.

@sheilafoster-hancock5687

5 ай бұрын

They’d never give him credibility because they know that he’s now onto something much bigger than this tragic case.

@billybobdog3815

5 ай бұрын

@@sheilafoster-hancock5687 👏👏👏👏

@Bluepilchard

5 ай бұрын

Don't like the truth might have the finger pointing into their direction and find something in the closet

@marvinc9994

5 ай бұрын

Jealousy - that's why!

This country is absolutely rotten to the core, i am not even shocked this could even happen.

Why should the taxpayer pay for the incompetence of Fujitsu and the Post Office management at the time of this scandal, individuals should have assets stripped and be made to go bankrupt like these poor people had to endure for twenty years.

@theeggtimertictic1136

5 ай бұрын

Exactly ... they should be accountable just as the postmasters were!

@palemale2501

5 ай бұрын

If Fujitsu establish that they reported errors early to the Post Office, or altered branch data behind the scenes only under direction of Post Office, then they might not be culpable. But if as main witnesses at trials they did not truthfully account, then that is perjury and perverting the course of justice, even if they did it for their employer, the Post Office.

This is just another example of Establishment bullying of the little man. The BBC comes to mind as yet another example.

@robertstraw9881

5 ай бұрын

Or the man who owns Talk TV (Rupert Murdoch) attacking unionised workers in Wapping.

Another member of the ‘establishment’ rewarding its own with an ‘honour’ Having a ‘Lord’, ‘Dame’, ‘Sir’ or OBE attached to one’s name is more a sign of dishonour than of an honour

@briansymmes7917

5 ай бұрын

Precisely, imagine being given an honour and then have to admit that it was given to you by Liz Truss. What a life of shame.

@lenroddis5933

5 ай бұрын

OBE Other Bugger's Efforts

@sgbh8874

5 ай бұрын

Agree, and so it should be. This is the 21st century and we’re still expected to be deferential to this very, very small gene pool of ‘elites’. Down with this type of thing.

@libertasdemocratiam887

5 ай бұрын

Are any of you going to sit and really think on this, who was in place before her? We have those in power from 2010 on the chopping block, the convictions started from 2000 onwards, who knew what during that period.

@mrmensa1096

5 ай бұрын

Or a sign you're a Pedo - just look at all the pedo who were knighted !!!

I've been angry about this outrage for years. As stated, it is only thanks to a TV drama that the situation will hopefully be redressed. That's very worrying in itself.

The actor (Toby Jones, I think) raised an interesting point. Post masters returned money that wasn't missing in the first place. Where is this money? Presumably, the Post Office has it and that's where the compensation should come from. Why are tax payers footing the bill?

@RohanGillett

5 ай бұрын

I hope you don't mind me pointing out that maybe you misworded yourself here. The money that the postmasters handed over money that wasn't missing. That money should of course be handed back. But compensation shouldn't come from that. That should come directly from government coffers. The computer company should also fork out a lot of money too.

@deananthony1000

5 ай бұрын

Cus the government own the post office. The post office is skint cus they spent all thier profits in legal fees trying to protect thier reputation.

@leechgully

5 ай бұрын

Good luck getting any money out of Fujitsu. Multinational Software manufacturers have very good lawyers as well. They can afford them. And software contracts with government or anybody for that matter, put the ownice on the client to thoroughly test systems before accepting them. They are the ones after all who are supposed to know how their businesses are supposed to work and they write the requirements. If the Post Office signed off on the system as fit for purpose and it wasn't, then it's on them.

@ChoppingtonOtter

5 ай бұрын

Probably as bonuses for the high ups.

@MrBanzoid

5 ай бұрын

It was put into a suspense account and after three years was added to the POs profits.

My bet is that a major embezzlement was perpetrated by 2 to 4 ruthless people in charge at the very top in the Post Office. Follow the money, the Police should look for unexplained wealth and lifestyles upgrades in the lives of the senior people who were in charge, particularly overseas property acquisitions.

@DessieTots

5 ай бұрын

I’ve always said this. Otherwise why pursue the Postmasters and Postmistress so aggressively and with such cruelty and disregard. The people responsible for procuring Horizon are surely guilty of fraudulent activity. Certainly some form of corruption. Now there are a few nervous players in this story.

@happyapple4269

5 ай бұрын

I agree. I think it was a heist.

@sgbh8874

5 ай бұрын

FUJITZU

@davidredding1988

5 ай бұрын

Spot on follow the money because it when somewhere ??

@sgbh8874

5 ай бұрын

@@davidredding1988 Follow the software, then you may find the money.

Trouble is the Post Office has its own police force so presumably the real police weren’t involved in the investigation

Edward Davey couldn't care less about the victims of this unspeakable scandal. His only concern is covering his back.

@gregsmith1070

5 ай бұрын

Has to go! No chance of remaining

@andrewcottle2899

5 ай бұрын

A despicable mp

@gregsmith1070

5 ай бұрын

@@andrewcottle2899 has to go PO stuff

Post Office,NHS, BBC,HS2,MP's,Lords......how long ya got....??

The barristers involved in the defense of and the prosecution of the Postmasters need to be brought to account also .

@nigelduckworth4419

5 ай бұрын

The barristers who defended and prosecuted these cases have no right to and are not obliged to make judgements about whether people or the post office are guilty or innocent. It is the judgement of the Post Office lawyers who started these prosecutions who should be subject to scrutiny Everyone and every organisation is entitled to representation and the cab rank rule at the bar means that if asked to take a case, they should do so unless there is a sound excuse for not doing so. Believing that your client is innocent/ guilty does not come into it.

@charlesdale1462

5 ай бұрын

​@@nigelduckworth4419 Should you be be prosecuting maliciously?

Rod is indispensable. What a pity he is not Prime Minister.

@jamesprice4647

5 ай бұрын

Has Rod been campaigning for the sub-postmasters? Yes or no?

Failure is rewarded in the UK especially in the public sector and until this changes, this county will continue to decline....

@susanmarch1661

5 ай бұрын

Like Rochdale

Police should investigate the post office for demanding money by menaces mainly money that wasn’t theirs in the first.

This is the treatment the Hillsborough families are dealing with.

Not just compensation but they should receive their own money back which they had to pay for the false shortages in the accounting system.

@fireflyrobert

5 ай бұрын

Plus interest

At best it's misconduct in public office,at worst it's perjury-when can we expect criminal charges

@spinynormanbest6410

5 ай бұрын

Errrm.....never

@DieFlabbergast

5 ай бұрын

Probably just before Jesus makes a reappearance.

Fujitsu, formerly ICL, a computer company whose software, I know from professional experience, often to have been released without adequate testing, seems to have gone "under the radar" in this scandal. Questions need to be asked of them too and they too should substantially contribute to the large pot of compensation money due to the several hundred and perhaps more, poor, innocent victims of their incompetence and dishonesty. The really big question that should concern us all, however, is why did it take a TV dramatisation of this scandal to make our politicians finally get off their useless, lazy a***s?

@nickupton2123

5 ай бұрын

You are right, Fujitsu still getting big contracts from the Government.

@0verloADHD

5 ай бұрын

Fujitsu is also partnered with Infosys which happens to be Sunak's wife's family company! Don't you just love 6 degrees of separation?

Why didn't the Post Office put in a temporary manager in the sub post office for a week after a shortfall happened and then see if the same thing happened to them? If the shortfall continued, then it proves the system was at fault, not the operator.

@lorenzbroll0101

5 ай бұрын

I think you miss the point maybe?

@marksapollo

5 ай бұрын

When you have the majority, which it will end up being, of your staff all reporting the same faults with a newly installed IT system, which is so bad the manufacture has a room setup with several staff specifically there to adjust incorrect figures daily, you don’t then think maybe we should check it’s the computer system and not the thousands of staff members…..

@lorenzbroll0101

5 ай бұрын

@@marksapollo Point being, they knew it was faulty and conspired to avoid the fact?

@doctorjames4245

5 ай бұрын

keep up

@lorenzbroll0101

5 ай бұрын

@@doctorjames4245 This is how they get away with things so often because most are still clueless even after having it explained to them.

The disease of the country is no department of the establishment want to accept responsibility that they are in the wrong!!!

Proper full compensation now for all accused.

None of them will be prosecuted by law because of corruption.

Vennells should lose her Post Office pension, she obviously hasn't earned it!

Everybody that worked on the Horizon software for Fujitsu should all be charged with perverting the course of justice. The Post Office need to be charged with Malicious Prosecutions as the KNEW the software system was flawed.

Utterly horrendous! 'Something is rotten in the State of...'

How did they manage to try anyone for fraud when no money was ever found in their bank accounts?.Surely you need evidence that the person has stolen the money.

@AlunThomas-mp5qo

5 ай бұрын

There are so many unanswered questions here. From what I have read, the computer system was duplicating transactions e.g if an order of £3000 of stamps was duplicated surely Post Office HQ would have delivery records and WOULD KNOW that a second batch of stamps to the value of £3000 had NOT been delivered!!!!

Why isn’t Fujitsu paying the compensation? It was their software that was faulty, after all. Why does the taxpayer have to foot the bill?

@leechgully

5 ай бұрын

Because when these systems are created a contract is signed that requires the client as owner of the software to thoroughly test and evaluate the system before accepting it. The Post Office would have written the requirements for the system. The legal ownice would have been on them to fully test and discover any problems. The software company aren't the experts on how to run a post office network, the Post Office is. The Post Office had the responsibility to identify the error in the design. They should have found it. As someone who has worked in software development ,I can tell you it would be very hard to get the software company to carry the can for any of this financially. I'm in Australia ,and we have had own scandals just like this. Google 'robodebt'. The problem is governments have been hollowing out the public service and public owned corporations for years so there is noone with the technical expertise internally to represent them or audit their own systems ,they all work for the private sector. And when problems are found , the leadership attacks the whistle-blowers and the focus always becomes how to cover up the problem rather than fix it because they're more concerned about the political damage than they are about fixing the problem. So it's the public or the little people in the system like employees or sub post masters who scapegoated. There is no accountability in democracies any more.

Is Paula Venells unemployed? Could Imperial College tell us anything about this?

@PJMcInerney

5 ай бұрын

Understand she stepped down from NHS role 2021

we pay 8 million pounds a day to house immigrants, why can't some of these million compensate our postmasters .

@bradr7607

5 ай бұрын

The postmasters scandal and immigration do not need to be conflated. Many of them were themselves immigrants who worked hard to build their businesses they don’t need you to bring your RW BS into their lives, they deserve better…

@susanmarch1661

5 ай бұрын

Yes. If you're a illegal immigrants noone can touch you but work hard running a post office for the community and you're a sitting target.

The 'dis-honour' system needs to be fully overhauled, something independent and nowhere near a politician - or be done away with alltogether?

Bosses should never be allowed to be judge , jury and hangman

I very much doubt that Sunak or Starmer is capable of changing their own underwear.

It will get sweeped under the carpet and thouse involved at the top will be found at no fault

Our public services have been invaded and colonised by executives, directors, regional managers, area managers, department managers, assistant managers, Human Resource managers, finance managers... and so on.... and so on. It's obvious a lot of these managers don't have any real power, nor do they possess the necessary skillls and experience to solve problems that arise. They get big salaries, nice offices, and expense accounts and they intend keeping their cushy jobs. So, they close ranks, silence whistle blowers, and cover up their incompetence or corruption. This happens in all of our national institutions... and it destroys lives

@simonellis9038

5 ай бұрын

I couldn’t agree more!

Another example of why you don't want the government running any public services.

@joanofarc8099

5 ай бұрын

The government are only a 30% share holder......so why is the tax payer footing the composition bill for this?.....

Up there as a cover up with Thalidomide

The concern is surely perverting the course of justice. The Post office knew the computer system was faulty. The they kept telling each post master/ mistress you are the only one having this problem when they know that wasn’t true (because the post office - not the police/CPS - brought all the prosecutions). Knowing these things were not true the post office effectively lied to the courts.

The post office is a bloody disgrace.

Her CBE AND the money should be taken away. She’s made thousands out of these disgusting accusations that happened under her watch! She must be sued by the victims of this lying but elevated poisonous woman! 😅

"Computer says no!" Little Britain: years ahead of its time.

The real scandal is that it took a TV programme to get the MP's to jump on the bandwagon. Watching Sir Kier Starmer banging on about what he would do now makes me sick. He ran the CPS from 2008 until 2013 and did NOTHING, but is firmly on the bandwagon with the rest of them.

@ronnewsam6129

5 ай бұрын

Check your facts please. I am no fan of CPS but they were not involved. Post Office independently investigate and prosecute.

@andrewgamblin7264

5 ай бұрын

Excellent point, I'd forgotten that.

@bradr7607

5 ай бұрын

FFS the CPS did not prosecute because the Post Office had their own investigation and prosecution teams, have you actually listened to anything that has been said?

@bradr7607

5 ай бұрын

@@andrewgamblin7264 🤡

@1957bumpy

5 ай бұрын

And it started in 1999 ,now let's guess who watch that was on ? One tony war criminal blair ,where is he hiding ?

Hold on….. the real criminal are Fujitsu and employees who worked on the Horizon systems, Ed Dave, and amazingly Adam Crozier former head of ITV!

@rb1062

5 ай бұрын

Yes, I wonder why he didn't feature in the ITV drama? 🤔

@anonnemo2504

5 ай бұрын

Yes, Fujitsu, formerly ICL, a computer company whose software, I know from professional experience, often to have been released without adequate testing, seems to have gone "under the radar" in this scandal. Questions need to be asked of them too and they too should substantially contribute to the large pot of compensation money due to the several hundred and perhaps more, poor, innocent victims of their incompetence and dishonesty. The really big question that should concern us all, however, is why did it take a TV dramatisation of this scandal to make our politicians finally get off their useless, lazy a***s?

The taxpayers should not foot the bill for this incompetence

97 people died at Hillsborough and the authorities lied for decades. They didn’t care about the suffering families. They make me sick.

Set the record straight and pay these people what you owe them for loss and hurt wrongful convictions

Pathetic delay. This will be the epitaph of this government, arrogance, indolence and fear. Sunak will do nothing but procrastinate.

The most famous whistleblower is still locked up in Belmarsh, that’s how whistleblowers are treated.

Lets have an enquiry see what lessons can be learned, blah blah blah blah kick the can down the road for another 10 years , then in about 50 years issue an apology .

@Celtictribes

5 ай бұрын

Like the covid 19 enquiry you mean ? A pointless waste of money unfortunately.

I have known about this for donkeys years - about 10, I think - courtesy of 'Private Eye', the only media outlet that apparently dared to touch the story. It's a bit late, isn't it?

@AlunThomas-mp5qo

5 ай бұрын

Peter Hitchens brought it up as well in his column years ago.

@matthewcoombs3282

5 ай бұрын

Private Eye is the only news magazine I buy. Gave up on the mainstream newspapers years ago. All blantant properganda for Westminster and the Corporations.

@nigelheath7048

5 ай бұрын

I think it was actually a journalist for computer weekly who originally tried to get this in the mainstream media. And whilst I'm definitely no fan of the BBC they have been covering this story for years. Maybe not giving it as much coverage as it needed but they have done quite a few items and programs on this.

The people responsible for need to charged with aiding and abetting fraud.

I have followed these atrocious events for more than a decade and am ashamed on behalf of the IT community to which I once belonged that buggy software combined with corporate and personal incompetence and greed has been allowed to ruin the lives of tousands of innocent people. Removing the honours bestowed on the chief architect of this wilfully evil plot is the least that should happen. Every single person, whether at the Post Office or Fujitsu, who have played a part in this needs to face the music, and the sooner the better. Delay, delay, delay has been at the core of the wicked Post Office plan all along, and it’s got to stop now!

@andrewcottle2899

5 ай бұрын

I don't think it was a bug . I think it was fraud inside fujitsu. They were able to alter it .

@oleleclos

5 ай бұрын

@@andrewcottle2899 I don’t think it was fraud in the sense that this was a planned way to enrich one or more individuals, at Fujitsu or elsewhere. What is much more likely is that it was buggy software that was rolled out too fast and with no proper plan for dealing with the problems that ALL software has. There is no such thing as bug-free software, and if anyone tells you different, they are lying. The larger and more complex the system, the more impossible it is, and the way round that conundrum is to have solid plans, and enough resources, to solve the problems as they arise. Believe me, been there, done that. The crime here is that instead of doing this, lots and lots of people in the PO and at Fujitsu - not just one or two executives - decided to cover it up and blame the users (the knee jerk reaction throughout the industry), and once that got underway, there was no way back.

We really need to stop focusing on 2010 onwards, what did labour know from 1997-2010? They rolled it out. What did the know and when?

Crozier, Davey, Vennells are making the air stink.

NHS blood scandal, this scandal, the future you know what you took in the last 3 years scandal….

Time to make an example of the Post Office and to take measures that will create a deterrent for the behaviour of Quangos and utilities.

Never mind that Post Office criminals should be prosecuted and Jailed!

I heard on the radio earlier today that the money for compensating the postmasters has already been planned into the government's budget. Lets just get it distributed!!

Toxic executive bonuses are behind this whole debacle. When execs home in on their bonus, they become evil and unreasonable.

Where was Adam Crozier in the ITV programme. He was the boss of the PO from 2003 til 2010. Did he not appear in the drama because he is the boss of ITV from 2010 to 2017 ?

“One of the problems is our propensity to believe software”. Too right mate, like we are told to believe climate models which after all are nothing but software.

Just like the Hillsborough scandel people had to fight for justice for 30 years Alan Bates is a Liverpool Lad, we Liverpool people fight justice for the post masters, lets hope people will be accountable

Our country, Fail - be rewarded, Succeed - be taxed to oblivion

When I started as postman it was called the G.P.O. The horizon scandel is awful, the part i was in , royal mail, introduced a system called pegasus and look at the terrible postal delivery service we have now!!!!!

It is so simple the money was stolen by someone at the top. They can be found if they investigate

They are using all this time to sort this crime out, so peoples memories fades of what happened . There should be an independent board to sort this out. Where on earth did all the money go?

It's not only a scandal and a vicious state crime, it's above all an immense tragedy...

The Post Office has had the time to get rid of all the criminal evidence they held of their wrong doing! So those who will investigate will have nothing to base any claims on! From what was revealed in the TV program has to be used as the basis for any prosecutions! They have the evidence and the court cases they won to be taken as that basis!

This has been in the public domain for years. Press, politicians & media have known since 2010. How long before we hear " I voz only obeying orders "

The Post masters/mistresses should as a starting point receive the money they were made to "pay back", with interest. It should be recovered from the PO board members large bonuses or personal account and property, NOT from the tax payer.

The compensation needs to come directly out of the pockets of those who financially benefited from money made by the post office.

The government and their MPs should be made to send a letter to every citizen of the UK telling them these people are innocent,they should then be made to stand in these people's towns and district and villages and say the same and apologise to these people to their faces Infront of the whole town city and village.

We see in the house of Lords ful of corruption.

Another disgrace Simon Thompson CEO of Royal Mail lied on Oath to parliament 😢

Why aren’t Fujitsu being held to account? They still have huge contracts given to them by the government and the software at fault is still being used by the Post Office. Government and large corporations are built on a foundation of corruption

@andrewcottle2899

5 ай бұрын

Nothing wrong with the computer system . I think it was fraud by the operators.

Any Bureaucracy eventually gets to the point where it only serves itself.

Just think....those responsible must have thought that they had got away with it!

Andrew Bridgen has worked tirelessly on this case but has been ignored. I wonder why?

Why would anyone try to defraud the post office of tens of thousands of pounds when they knew that they would almost certainly be found out at the next audit and therefore prosecuted? Search me.

Paula Vennells was so proud to stand up for the Post Office, nothing to do with the money she was making of course.

There was more outrage and swifter action over Farage and Coutts than this scandal, speaks volumes.

Fitjitsu need to pay. The managers in the post office need to pay. The post masters must be paid.

Why oh why did it take a TV drama (not a documentary) for this scandal to become headlines. BBC radio has been covering this for years.

Then they gave the woman in charge of post office a job in NHS. Haha ahahaha ahahaha

How much, i wonder, did Fujitsu get paid for the incompetently produced software?

the bonuses Post Office staff received for prosecuting and clawing money back should also be repaid

The problem is the UK has a culture in which those in power see anyone speaking back to them as trouble makers. To paraphrase Sara Ahmed, when you have to shout to be heard, all people hear is you shouting. This comes from the top. Don't forget we have had two PMs without holding general elections, all the way down to protest laws and attitudes to workers in all industries. If a work says there's a problem they get told to shut up. If they have a union, they are called militants or greedy.

All Gagging clauses must be declared invalid, especially those that work or have worked in public sector organisations.

How has it taken an ITV drama to bring these scandal out in the open? Disgusting!

The only true justice would be to go for the individuals involved and not the PO as a corporation, you can't pu the PO in jail. These people knowingly ruined other peoples' lives. Have they no empathy with fellow humans, and one of them a vicar! They really should not be allowed to hide behind an institution.

this needed to be stamped out at source!!!

FOLLOW THE MONEY! WHERE IS IT? Where is the money now?^

All the agencies involved are corporations with a Corporate mindset. These agencies like these always have large PR depts and HR departments. Both are obsessed with their "brand", not the level of service delivered.

*NO WAY* will Sunak recommend the return of that woman's CBE

The ex-CEO should be prosecuted and do time, I suggest twenty years behind bars.

I am amazed now that compensation has been promised, that we have not seen unscrupulous lawyers advertising on tv “have you been a victim of the Post Office” scandal followed by ring free phone number now for your no win no fee representation, with a small print of 40% take of any compensation paid.

Unless pressure is constantly applied the government and the PO backed up by the lawyers will do the very least they can get away with to rectify this dreadful scenario, the right and proper thing would be a criminal investigation into the whole thing but i have absolutely no faith in an outcome in favour of those who were so badly treated , the slime balls in government and the civil service will put pressure on the investigation yeams to produce sn outcome favourable to their interests.