All these convictions are unsafe. It’s outrageous to make innocent postmasters to be cleared just in case one or two might be guilty. Quite ridiculous and it just keeps this miscarriage of justice going on and on. In the meantime the directors at the top are getting away Scott free as it stands.

@sarahbarrett1247

5 ай бұрын

Exactly. It’s like an episode of the Simpsons with incompetent police officers. The law was powerless to help, but it wasn’t powerless to arrest 😡

@johndewhurst6609

5 ай бұрын

Hi Damian, The government were told that the Horizon software they were using was unsafe, but used it anyway. 700 Postmasters were accused and charged with theft. Many Postmasters were imprisoned many were bankrupted and lost their homes and their standing in the community. There are people at the top that should be charged for pressing these convictions, knowing they were relying on confirmed unreliable software. The wrong people were imprisoned, it is time full recompence was paid to those charged, or forced to pay shortcomings identified by Horizon software. This software is still being used in schools in Northern Ireland.

@patrickokeeffe539

5 ай бұрын

This is not knew, but it usual minorities, so The British or the media do not care. Now that it is British people wow. I am sure there a Yes Minister that explains this, charge rich people lol lol lol.

@davidcronan4072

5 ай бұрын

Just as the postmasters who raised doubts about Horizon were told by the investigators "you prove to us there are faults with the system". As though one person could have had access to the data logs and other information to show the whole thing was full of bugs.

@paulbutler7075

5 ай бұрын

I don't believe the system is 'faulty'. After watching the program,if accurate, others had access and were able to change figures at will. That doesn't suggest a faulty system,it suggests fraud/theft. It's where that money went that is now the issue, whether it was back into the Post Office or to a separate individual or group remains to be identified. The 'faulty system' argument is simply another smokescreen.

Thank you for fighting for justice for the postmasters.

What has happened to justice in the UK? This is shameful.

@markcallaghan8389

5 ай бұрын

its funny how swift the law acts to prosecute ordinary people but comes to grinding halt when dealing with wrong doing by those higher up in the system

@flyhi2773

5 ай бұрын

Look into it, and in the scheme of things, there’s at the top, Gods laws, laws of the land and Magna Carta. Under this come the people and under them, the Government, police, courts etc hence, public SERVANTS….UNDER THIS, comes admiralty law which is corporate law, corpse orators however in every area, Government, police, courts todays lot literally cannot stand being nor will many accept that they are public servants. The wording of Magna Carta uses the term man or living man and that is who those laws, Gods laws, laws of the land are for SO todays lot will not use the word living man. Instead they use the word person because Winston Churchill, Elvis Presley even Harry Potter, James Bond are also by the definition of the word person, are also persons. Dead non living persons but still persons and so, not entitled to Gods laws, laws of the land, Magna Carta. No money in that. Loads of money in corporate law so a lot of trials are non jury trials, goods are seized, people are imprisoned legally but unlawfully by non jury trials despite the law being that no man shall be punished, imprisoned, nor be dispossessed of his possessions, except by the judgement of his peers meaning trial by jury and they do it using among many words but a big one is by the word person because in law the word person includes Harry Potter, James Bond even Doc Spock from Star Trek and he’s not in law a man or living man, he’s a Vulcan, an alien from another planet, and the law states person also means thing or things and those laws are not for things, nor for the dead, only the living man. This is VERY VERY simply, how it is done. Money in this, lots of it, billions and that is all they care about. End up in court, and they will use the word person, are you the person, whoever. Yes you reply, congratulations, you’ve just said you are a thing, and real law is not for things so now they can do more or less whatever they want with you. The beauty of it is, that if you spring to life and get violent with them, then the word person does also cover the living person, and because a thing isn’t subject to law so it isn’t for say dogs - also things but you will never see a dog dragged into court for attacking someone but if you attack someone then you can still be a person, just now a living person. Trust me this word person covers them every way, they treat you unlawfully but legally when it suits them but if you get angry and violent with them it covers them for that too. They’re not interested in justice, it’s all about money. They actually steal billions this way, and they ain’t going to change it. Loads get paid loads of money from this system, to do so would be to bite the hand that feeds and houses them and allows them to live and retire extremely nicely thank you.

@daveoliver5838

5 ай бұрын

@@markcallaghan8389where’s you evidence ?

@suzyqualcast6269

5 ай бұрын

There's no justice in 🇬🇧, not for us British ears, specially when fighting the nobs.

@andydudley1775

5 ай бұрын

it got borrissed long a go .now we got the sunami of sunek justice for the election year all of a suddon ?

I think what also needs to be called out is that some people used these numbers to call on rural post offices to be closed down. I heard people on tv saying that tax payers couldn’t go on funding post offices that were losing money. But it wasn’t vital services losing money, it was a scandal that has many repercussions on many, many lives.

For around 20 years I was one of the very best software developers in the country. I worked in the City, and was very handsomely remunerated for my services. But even top notch people like me expected to find bugs in the new systems we implemented. In fact I was occasionally very surprised (amazed?) by just how few there were in mine. Those in charge at the Post Office should have expected faults in their new Horizon system, and this should have been their FIRST conclusion, rather than blaming 700 people of committing fraud. For not doing so, and wrongly prosecuting all these people they very richly DESERVE jail terms!

@shaunhw

5 ай бұрын

Very true. As a less prominent and now retired software developer of over thirty five years standing, bugs are always to be expected in new software. This is why strict testing is important along with believing that any problems reported by users are real. Even old software will probably still contain a few relatively benign bugs. In Windows OS there seems still to be some minor but irritating bugs I've seen in there for over 20 years! For example Windows Explorer occasionally keeping file handles open when it should have closed them...

@allsearpw3829

5 ай бұрын

IT seems there was no body in charge , who had any real time experience on the Horizon system . A fiasco of the first degree . 🤔

@pete1942

5 ай бұрын

I’ve also worked in software development in the financial sector although not to the same level as you. I found there to be a lot of ignorance and unrealistic expectations among the management level that were commissioning the software. They really weren’t interested in understanding the process and would argue for minimal testing whilst expecting perfect results on roll out. When the inevitable bugs and issues arose, there were many occasions where denial was the chosen response because to admit the problem meant explaining failure to the board of directors, which many of these people were not prepared to do under any circumstances. It was that type of insanity that drove me out of that sector eventually. So while I have no idea what went on at the Post Office during this scandal, I can certainly imagine a scenario where a similar level of incompetence could lead to a failure to recognise the software was at fault.

@digitaurus

5 ай бұрын

I work as a programme (and program) manager for a couple of long-term research projects where we develop and maintain our own software. There is total ignorance outside the developer community as to what that requires; most people seem to think that software is like a novel which, once written can be used for ever without maintenance, and are usually incredulous when I explain that work is constantly required as dependencies in the software stack change, the environment changes, new capability requirements develop, and bugs appear.

The Post Office must be put on trial for THEFT, they must pay back the money AND interest AND then pay compensation for the agony they caused

@lindacraig7486

5 ай бұрын

Hear Hear!

@Squirreler359

5 ай бұрын

Yes - they are the ones that stole from these people.

@robertkelly-jh9zu

5 ай бұрын

Yes yes yes

@keysersoze3427

5 ай бұрын

Fraud not theft. Also peverting the course of justice

@Papai_Pai

5 ай бұрын

Nothing was stolen it was a computer error the post office tried cover up they told everyone of those postmasters you are the only one that has done this

If sub postmasters were prosecuted for doing nothing "wrong" surely prosecutions must be given to those who have been actually found guilty within the PO?

@diane4488

5 ай бұрын

In a fair and just system, that would be the case. But it's clearly not fair, not just, and not moral.

@blackislepeas

5 ай бұрын

When politicians / civil servants and their pals are involved nothing happens quickly and those in senior positions always get away with it.

it is unbelievable that a scandal like this has no one being held to account. the humble exoneration of these people is a given.

Surely the first thing the Post Office has to do NOW is to reimburse all the postmasters or their descendents with the money they stole with appropriate interest payments. After all it is still the postmasters' personal money.

It's a government issue therefore it's being done as slowly as possible. Paula Vennells and Co should be penalised. Fujitsu should also be accountable. The ministers involved should be questioned on what they knew and why did they do nothing?

@blackislepeas

5 ай бұрын

But only after the payouts have been made.

The real shame in all of this is that nobody from the Post Office or Fijistsu has had the guts to own up about what they knew and when. The Public Inquiry will find it extremely difficult to unearth exactly who knew what and it's going to be very difficult to bring charges against any individuals. The Sub Postmasters should immediately get back all those monies that were illegally demanded by Post Office, with interest. It seems an outrage that there should continually be delay after delay after the successful court ruling.

@daveoliver5838

5 ай бұрын

Nothing wrong with the computer system, the courts found these postmasters guilty in the presence of their lawyers,some even admitted to false accounting !

It's funny how it was ITV that aired the programme and not licence funded BBC services. Says alot of how this was under reported and covered up from top down.

@craigsteven9665

5 ай бұрын

yes itv are the real hero's here..... have you worked out why adam crozier seemed to be missing from the show?

@blackislepeas

5 ай бұрын

BBC would be too frightened they'd lose their funding - unless of course, the BBC Chief Lineker raised it.

@funnythat9956

5 ай бұрын

To be fair the BBC ran a Radio 4 series about the scandal some years ago; updated and broadcasted again a few times. But it seems people don't listen to the radio. It is shameful, that the government has taken a backseat for so long. They should have intervened 10 years ago.

@IWAYAE

5 ай бұрын

BBC Radio 4 did a series about it and it’s available in podcast form - The Great Post Office Trial is what it’s called. It’s an excellent series and really goes into things in greater detail. Give it a listen you won’t be disappointed.

It’s the LAWYERS who will, yet again, gain from this situation. Shame that the government doesn’t circumvent this and promptly pay the postmasters

@daveoliver5838

5 ай бұрын

Where’s the evidence ? They were tried in court with their lawyers present, found guilty, some even admitted to false accounting !

Absolute outrage. They were quick enough to convict. All civil prosecutions, no police involved. And the post office knew the system was wrong.

I'm so glad for these poor people. But I remember at the time how MSM were not interested. These people deserve a huge apology from the MSM. No excuses.

@ezzler

5 ай бұрын

In fairness, the MSM didn’t have the information. When you consider that the Post Office. The Post Office sub poster union. The government and the courts all said the same thing. That these people WERE guilty, then how would the media know?

@samanthalansley7171

5 ай бұрын

And money .one million pounds each. And the ceo arrested and convicted for criminal offence

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

Because the media is bought and paid for by governments - A propaganda machine.

@chrisphillips7470

5 ай бұрын

MSM is Corrupt and cant be trusted in this country same with our police farce our government are stealing left and right and no other party is talking about all the missing money means they must be corrupt too country is lost .

@davidboult4143

5 ай бұрын

Vennels predecessor at the PO was Adam Crozier, later boss at ITV. Are you really surprised the MSM stayed silent?

It's been 25 years! I'm moving beyond saying that the then executives of the Post Office and Fujitsu should be in jail to saying, 'Bring back hanging'. Btw, I have known all about this for at least six years, courtesy of 'Private Eye' and Nick Wallace has written a book about it, and done a Radio 4 series explaining it in detail.

The level of dishonesty by senior executives in the post office is incredible, and entirely unpunished. The law needs to be changed to allow dishonesty in ANY high office to be charged as a criminal offence. Lying is endemic amongst powerful people and there are never any consequences.

Every keystroke has been logged and recorded. The Post Office senior management need to be held accountable for their actions, with full transparency. They are simply vile.

@lindacraig7486

5 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@keysersoze3427

5 ай бұрын

Yeah but they destroyed evidence apparently

Sub-postmasters in Bates & Others v Post Office announced on 11 December 2019 that they had reached an out-of-court settlement with the Post Office. The Post Office did not accept liability so this was a costs settlement, not compromise. The group that brought the legal action was awarded £57.75m, but some £46m was taken in legal costs, leaving only about £20,000 for each person.

@nannieg7622

5 ай бұрын

This is a scandal within itself

@continental_drift

5 ай бұрын

,never get between a lawyer and a pile of cash.

What has happened to Innocent until Proven Guilty????

@andiross8898

5 ай бұрын

They were proven guilty in court that's what happened. Even though NO ONE WAS GUILTY!!! that's British justice.

Well done to everyone for fighting for the victims involved in this scandal. Your so right when you say without these programmes the majority of us would have been unaware of what had taken place. We fortunately now have an whole Nation wanting these victims compensated asap. Alas not all of those affected are still with us.

The next scandal will be Smart Meters that are costing users £hundreds of millions on collective bills, whether you have one or not, and they don't do any of the things claimed for them with zero savings.

All names to the victims need to have their names cleared. Absolutely dreadful.♥️🌻🙏🧑🏻‍🦼

When I was a civil servant my department had a contract with Fujitsu to deal with any computer problems we had. So if I had a problem I just had to phone someone at Fujitsu and they would use remote access to sort out the issue. I could look at my screen and see the cursor moving about, as if on its own. This was almost 20 years ago. So this issue of remote access is nothing new and the government must have known about it. I feel sure the Post Office must have been aware of it as they signed off on the Horizon system.

Hang on if these convictions are due to a fraud by the post office and a software company how is it so hard to overturn any of them? If they feel that someone is GUILTY of a crime then RE-TRY them with a new court case! Where are the charges for the top brass who ran these people through court, where are the charges for the software company who's system was at fault? This was mainly done to close post offices to save money!

@TheDMG45

5 ай бұрын

It isn't hard to overturn them at all, they just don't see it as worth the effort.

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

​@@TheDMG45overturning these convictions would be admitting they were wrong..

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

It does appear this was a plot or close PO.. Preparing for a digital currency no doubt...

The final insult is that the compensation money, when it is finally paid out. is not tax free. It is subject to usual taxation rules. And by being paid out all at once, that’s 40% plus the government gets back.

@TheDMG45

5 ай бұрын

There's no other word for it than evil. They are literally evil.

As an "expert witness" and engineering software developer, I can tell you that it is 100% possible to find all the bugs in the Horizon software that ran on the post office users' systems. And once the bugs have been found, it is also 100% possible to determine EXACTLY how much each PO user account has been ripped off by, as every single transaction was recorded (logged). Once every single incorrect transaction has been logged, and tallied up with relevant phone call records, where users discussed issues, it'll be possible to prove guilt. Kind of obvious already, but hey. Then show how much suffering each user had to endure. The world is becoming more and more technical, and sadly our political rulers are becoming more and more misinformed, relying on 'trusted" technical sources who IMO are not to be trusted. Always use peer reviewed sources of technical reference, not "mates" who you think you can trust on technical matters.

@helpmaboabb

5 ай бұрын

This was the aspect that I still find unforgiveable, as a former system developer. That the first and only line of approach was that the user must be to blame, rather the code being faulty, is practically Orwellian in its knowingly being covered-up.

@logant6490

5 ай бұрын

I suspect most problems related to transactions taking place in parallel to communication issues with the terminals. Add to that that fujitsu were manually changing data remotely, then the situation becomes quite complex

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

​@@logant6490if Fujitsu were manually changing data, this may be evidence they knew something was wrong. And tried to correct any flaws or miscalculations..?

@logant6490

5 ай бұрын

@@stuartd9741 absolutely, they were massaging the data to hide and repair the consequences of system bugs

As usual , 'they' are quick to accuse & convict the ordinary "little person" , but when it comes to admitting they were wrong , making amends & clearing the names THEY wrongly accused , they take their time. (I say "they" i mean the government, the "establishment" ) They close ranks & protect their own, regardless of the extent of damage they've caused & lives they've ruined. This is despicable!!!

@TheDMG45

5 ай бұрын

How dare that woman say it "isn't possible" to exonerate everyone? What she actually means is they don't consider it worth the effort to it.

@KathleenHammett-hr1gy

5 ай бұрын

@@TheDMG45 They would rather see innocent people punished & suffer for crimes they didn't commit, than fully admit they got it completely wrong & take full responsibility.

The post office should be sued heavily for every member for loss of life, health, sanity and loss of savings to pay for this scandal and faulty systems. 😡

@nannieg7622

5 ай бұрын

Yes

This is why unions are so important. Organise and protect your fellow workers.

Thank God for this TV series exposed the wrongdoing of the PO and its contractor Fujitsu. The only questions that needs answering is WHY has it taken SO LONG to a) have these victims exonerated for any wrong doing and compensated for this miscarriage of justice, and b) why aren't the senior management of the PO, at the time this occurred, not been brought before the courts for their illegal part in the cover up. This is a scandal at the highest level and a dreadful miscarriage of justice.

utterly disgusting and they people in power knew it wasn't right and done nothing to stop it how many life's where destroyed by this .

thanks for keeping this story in the public eye. it deserves all the publicity it can get.

@Paul-ry5cx

5 ай бұрын

this a million times over

Looking at each case "on its merits" is what is taking so long and costing so much. Whilst it's possible that a SMALL percentage of postmasters may have been fiddling, I would have thought that the evidence for such is going to be extremely difficult to establish after all this time. The only common sense approach, in my opinion, is to give EVERYONE the benefit of the doubt, and recompense and compensate ALL. As someone else commented, innocent postmasters shouldn't suffer just in case one or two might be guilty.

@ericy4522

5 ай бұрын

Don't forget, even if there were a small number of real thefts/frauds, they too have already been punished for 20 years. And even then they would have had grounds for dismissal, as the prosecutions certainly don't meet the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold anymore. There is no excuse for continuing this agony.

@supergran1000

5 ай бұрын

@@ericy4522 Exactly.

What happened to INNOCENT until proven GUILTY.

Turns out there is reasonable doubt to suggest you didn't do it, but since we convicted you of it you'll have to prove your innocent...yeah, sure, "justice."

All cases over this time should be thrown out as the evidence used to prosecute is unsafe and fatally flawed.

The public should march in solidarity next Saturday.

I think we all know it was Down to the computers so what’s the problem everyone should be exonerated

@juneduffy4502

5 ай бұрын

It’s Fujitsu staff they should be jailed - they were fiddling the system

@heliotropezzz333

5 ай бұрын

As she explained, the UK law doesn't currently allow for group exonerations. She said the government could change that by changing the law, so why don't they, is the question they need to answer.

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

​@@juneduffy4502if that's true, this would explain the cover up and the reluctance to exonerate those accused.

@juneduffy4502

5 ай бұрын

@@stuartd9741 I’m going on the documentary - a lot of the victims say this especially as one guy went to Fujitsu and they showed him how they were remotely entering sub post masters horizon systems and adjusting the figures - then years later he had a phone call from the man at Fujitsu and said he’d left as they were far worse than he’d first realised 😏

The post office is still stalling and the tax payer should be getting this money back from Fujitsu. There is also an argument that this was intentional as an excuse to close sub post offices. Or if not intentional it was certainly beneficial until now.

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

It appears this may have been the case. Any excuse to close PO s.

Surely the sheer number of subpostmasters involved should have indicated that something was wrong with the system and not the individuals accused. This is truly dystopian.

Why did the shere number accused not raise eyebrows! And initiate an investigation at the time!

This is disgusting. These poor people have done nothing wrong and their lives have been ruined whilst employees at the post office and jujitsu have continued to make and take kids of money. It stinks. Also take away that CBE

They should all be cleared of wrongdoing immediately, and then if any of them are found in future to really have been fraudulent, well that would be the fault of the Post Office people for mudding the waters with this scandal. In the eyes of the public this is either criminal or just as bad and a Postmaster who defrauded them is only just like them, so what's been lost?

Jail those behind it - NOW.

Same injustice as Hillsborough

Just think how much money was paid to the lawyers who defended the Post Office ! they should be made to pay that back.

Unbelievable incompetence by the post office

Why didn't the cps pick up on this

@mrstandfast2212

5 ай бұрын

Because the CPS recruit from the dregs and remnants of those with law degrees. All the talented people go into private practice because that's where the money is to be made. CPS = Couldn't Prosecute S**t

@TheDMG45

5 ай бұрын

They're all friends and have no interest in going after each other.

The Justice Secretary is looking into how 'this' could be achieved - without having to convict his cronies in high places.

The Post Office Board Members & senior management in the organisation need to be prosecuted to the fullest letter of the law. Fujitsu who designed the Horizon software need to be sued by a combination of the relevant ombudsman, government & Post Office directors. Fujitsu must be forced to pay full compensation to the sub post masters & post masters. For those poor souls who have died, then pay their family members still alive. Ridiculous that these unsafe & false prosecutions have not been reversed & all parties pardoned. Shocking miscarriage of injustice for those wrongly accused.

Don't forget, even if there were a small number of real thefts/frauds, they too have already been punished for 20 years. And even then they would have had grounds for dismissal, as the prosecutions certainly don't meet the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold anymore. There is no excuse for continuing this agony.

The Government can and should give a blanket pardon to all the Sub-postmasters who were effected by this scandal! Plus they can take out a criminal case on the whole Post Office Boardroom members for the time of this Horizon case!

As soon as they computers went in, everyone that was charged should be, beloved not guilty, you can't start picking and choosing and the big wigs who knew and lied should be charged, all this learning lessons, not good enough anymore,its been going on to long,and the wrong doers, always end up being rewarded and slink away, until, next time, stop insulting the public's intelligence, because everyone is sick of the 2 teir justice system and the richest getting special treatment 💯🙈🤔👎

I’ve worked at a few places where the shop owner has put the wrong labels on the boxes when sending 30 + pre wrapped boxes printing all the labels out to save time mixing them all up. The customer would sometimes be honest and let you know about receiving the wrong item, some would just say they’ve not received there item, while they had something. As the seller would have a tracking number they could clam there costs back even though it was them at fault. Then the blame would lay on the deliverer or postal worker.

Did anyone else note a comment made by "Alan Bates" in the drama saying that the whole debacle wasn't to do with Horizon, but was an attempt/excuse to close down the local Post Offices as they weren't profitable. This would make sense from a government perspective and hopefully this will come out in the Enquiry. Having watched numerous days of the enquiry, it's clear that the selective amnesia tactic used by many of the Post Office staff has been used in an attempt to protect them from criminal prosecution and I can't help but suspect that the financial incentives given by the Post Office to those appearing at the Enquiry are accompanied by an amount of coaching by the in-house solicitors.

Clearly those who covered this up in the PO and Fujitsu need to be gone after, but I fear that, in the eyes of the law, they have not done much wrong. Lying is not a serious crime sadly unless it's classed as perjury. They were after all doing what their companies paid them for which is to help boost company profits and to protect the reputation of their companies.

@adienowed6366

5 ай бұрын

Fujitsu should be removed from dealing with any further government contracts-they have shown themselves to be completely unfit and untrustworthy to handle such business.

After the Post Office, will the NHS and other public services be scrutinised too? From accusations of time sheet fraud, to significantly worse, it's really important the evidence is credible and transparent, when accusations are made. . There needs to be an urgent special action to exonerate innocent people.

@ScottishRoss27

5 ай бұрын

Royal Mail was privatised in 2013 by the Tories.

Surprised to hear that only post masters and no post mistresses have been involved.

Need to have a just giving page set up, to provide these people with the money to take the government to court. I will give.

I just find it incredible it needs a TV drama for government to act on this. I understand the general public may not be aware of the details but ministers surely should be all over such a miscarriage of justice and corporate corruption issues

@keysersoze3427

5 ай бұрын

I have met many politicians and with a few exceptions . They will only act if it affects them politically.

Clear names of these innocent posties and pay back what they were robbed of!!

No doubt they will commission an enquiry as to why this process is taking so long.

So the managers and software designers presumably should now be prosecuted for false allegations?

This is how the country is run. Anyone who agrees to have a Smart Meter installed needs their head examined. A government installed computer that reports back directly, what could possibly go wrong?

First we need a simple introduction on what is going on here regarding events leading to the issue at hand 🤔 I was trying to put it together.

The media coverage of this scandle has been poor

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

Remember that when they're reporting on breaking news. And whether it's the truth...

5.30 'its hard to get justice in this country specially in criminal system, because there has to be evidence beyond reasonable doubt that the person is guilty' If that where the case, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place would we

Fujitsu, Post Office and Government should be held responsible. It’s unlikely this is has been the only coverup that innocent people have had their lives ruined by them.

I know it’s simplistic, but quash all PO convictions. Institute investigations into the leadership/those responsible at the PO. Ditto for Fujitsu(there must be some level of culpability there?). The Parliamentarians (there a few notable exceptions) who’ve dragged their collective feet to be named and shamed. In the longer term the reintroduction of local/rural POs, because there has been damage done to many communities, especially with High St Banks withdrawing services/branches? Don’t let politicians and the judiciary say things can’t be done! Anything is possible if minds put to it!

They should exonerate all the post masters and then take into account another part of this scandal. What about the postmasters who were able to pay off the discepancies week in week out and are out of pocket due to the corrupt system. The PO is corrupt to the very core and past and present leaders need to be arrested and investigated as too the managers at Fujitsu.

These aren't the sort of people who would plead guilty in court unless they were guilty irrespective of any inducements, absolutely not, no way would they. Any of these sub postmaster that pleaded guilty must have their cases scrutinised to the utmost detail because its more likely than not they were at it.

Anyone noticed HOW man y sub post offices have vanished over the last 15 years??

A new computer system is installed (probably with insufficient testing by the developer and the user's IT department) and you suddenly get a rash of cash balance problems. Does management instantly hold the roll-out until the system has been checked? Of course not because they are incompetent. Instead they blame the staff to protect their own hides. Disgraceful.

The Post Office is wholly owned by the Government so, as the saying goes "the buck stops with boss". Tony Blair was Prime Minister in 1999 when this Post Office Horizon debacle started so, he should be held to account and stripped of his Knighthood just as Paula Vennells should be stripped of her CBE.

Ed Davey worked for the Law firm prosecuting the subpostmasters.

100% agree with the sentiment, however this saga has been rumbling on for years, there was a BBC Radio 4 series on the subject last year - strange how it takes an ITV drama for everyone to suddenly become aware of this scandal!

Adam Crozier CEO (moved on to FA) friend of Tony + Gordon...Horizon private contractors for the government....why no justice for those whose lives ruined???....the general public are thick as mince and so easily gaslighted by people like this lying by omission

This is a total disgrace the post-office should be held accountable for all these hard working people who were falsley accused and that ghastly woman paula vennells should also be taken before the courts and prosecuted for perjury alongside with her coworkers.

Sunak keep out. Let the Courts decide as a class action in the public interest, allowing those who cannot afford to go to Court to benefit from a generic decision, as the Post Office is still abusing them - which means the Company should be closed and we begin again.

She is mixed up, it is not the fact of a 'Private Prosecution' the Post Office has had the power to take anyone to Court for 300 years + without call to the Police

@user-zi8sz1ww2m

5 ай бұрын

I have just read on another forum, that the RSPCA have the same lack of due process requirement?!!! What?! Fukin dog whisperers?!!!! Can't be!!!!!

Lets start with Davey Vennells and Crozier

Good. Hope Bates et al, bring prosecutions. It would be poetic justice.

Take the Post Office to court asp

Most people are technically illiterate, which makes technical evidence difficult to understand. Consequently difficult to explain where the fault lies (so who is at fault).

Us and them,nothing changes bent people at the top at the PO also Government dragging this issue doing nothing.

Now the justice system Fkd up...

Congratulations to ITV for naming and shaming some of those involved. Unfortunately when dealing with government run corporations there’s often isn’t any justice and it can take years for those affected to get any compensation. It’s also very rear that the individuals responsible will be prosecuted.

@keysersoze3427

5 ай бұрын

Post office is a privately run organisation

@Paul-ry5cx

5 ай бұрын

the Boss at ITV was not even featured in the show, Mr Crozier was CEO of Royal Mail Group between 2003 and 2010, when the Post Office was prosecuting these people...and only left ITV in 2017...he was named as one of the people overseeing the prosecutions by one of the victims.

@keysersoze3427

5 ай бұрын

@@Paul-ry5cx Royal mail group and the Post office are seperate companies....

@Paul-ry5cx

5 ай бұрын

From Mr Crozier wikipedia page..in 2003 becoming the chief executive of the Royal Mail Group, the United Kingdom's mail delivery service, where he oversaw a controversial modernisation and redundancy programme. During his tenure Mr Crozier oversaw the implementation of the first generations of Horizon IT system which was not fit for purpose, creating false shortfalls that led to the conviction of hundreds of individuals for thefts that never were. [2] Mr Crozier was, on the 22nd February 2023, named by Seema Misra who was speaking under oath at the Post Office Horizon Inquiry, as being one of those responsible for her prosecution and conviction - her evidence can be seen on the inquiry KZread channel

@Paul-ry5cx

5 ай бұрын

they were part of the same group until 2012..i just googled it.@@keysersoze3427

This was one of the worst cases of a miscarriage of justice in English history. Those responsible for this criminal incompetence, have to be held accountable. Questions revolving around the software are off paramount importance.

Now the Met Police are looking into ot after this excellent TV drama..

I first started hearing about this several years ago, but only because my vehicle radio is usually tuned to Radio 4 where they covered aspects of it. Were it not for that, this would be fairly new to me. The legal system is not geared up for mass exonerations and once someone has been found guilty, the burden of proof effectively switches and depends on stuff like new evidence coming to light, or being able to show that there was a procedural flaw in the original court case. Personally, I would say that the information about intermittently faulty software, the revelation that some Fujitsu staff could gain remote access, and The Post Office's standard lie that each sub-postmaster was the only one affected could all be regarded as new evidence that was not available at the original trials. The day the legal eagles have their ducks in a row is the day they must start going through each individual case. I would like to believe that an initial small payment should be made to tide the affected people over, to ensure they at least don't starve. It can always be deducted once a settlement is reached. They must be compensated for far more than the financial losses too.

@stuartd9741

5 ай бұрын

They could all be pardoned by royal decree. Yet this would be an admittance of wrong doing. .. It would also threaten the authority of the establishment. .. The latter rarely likes to admit they're wrong....

It took itv to heighten the profile. The government turned a blind eye. Disgraceful but now start to act. To little to late

What about using the royal prerogative to pardon all convicted postmasters during the Horizon era?

This is on a scale that I have never heard off in my life . The woman who knew about this from the post office whose responsability for this should be in prison. PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE OF THIS LIVES OF HONEST PEOPLE HAVE BEEN RUINED.

It was easy enough to convict them !!!!

How about a Royal pardon?

@janetcurham1452

5 ай бұрын

Not Royal Mail.

appalling situation they should be exonerated and compensated immediately

If the post office can do this to people just think what the government are up too 😮

Director of Public Prosecutions - STARMER - 2008 - 2013

Very impressive person.