My mother was on that train,as she was every morning for work. She often got on the first two carriages but that particular day was running late and got on the second to last!! and I wasn’t born till 84 so it’s scary to think...

@swolemole69

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah man, that stuff really fucks with your head

@DaVeganZombie

3 жыл бұрын

Glad she lived, and that you are around today. I hope it is a good life

@xmlthegreat

3 жыл бұрын

How's your mum these days? Hope she's doing well, and she took that near miss in stride.

@gentlebabarian

3 жыл бұрын

Its crazy to think that your life depends on the little moments.

@beautifulworldvm

3 ай бұрын

Omg gladly u didn’t lose ur mother

I wonder if Driver Newson took a vertigo turn? I started taking these about 15 years ago and ignored them. I finally sought help after one day when I came to sitting on a pavement, with a guy standing over me, telling me I had walked into the road, and he had stopped me from walking in front of a bus. The guy said I had a completely blank expression on my face, and he asked me if I was trying to kill myself. I wasn't. As far as could recall I was still on the pavement, and didn't remember stepping off it. I was subsequently diagnosed with a form of migraine, caused by an inner ear blockage, too close to my brain to operate. A result of many years of heavy smoking. Driver Newson's actions and reported appearance would suggest similar. In these vertigo turns you think you are in control, when in fact you're brain is going haywire. Therefore it's possible that Newson believed he was operating the train as normal and not even aware of the danger.

@ssbn6175

3 жыл бұрын

True Thomas, I had never heard of such a thing. Very interesting, and perhaps an explanation for a number of incidents wherein witnesses have reported a 'trancelike' appearance whilst disaster looms straight ahead. In a similar vein, my eldest brother (type 1 diabetic) has said that an abnormal and sudden drop in blood sugar results in a 'dreamlike' state; he sees, comprehends, and recalls events as they unfold...but has no ability to affect them. On one occasion he wandered off the roadway, with our parents in the car. Both reported that he looked perfectly normal, seated upright, both hands on the wheel...'trancelike'. I sincerely hope that your condition has improved, or that some sort of medication has ameliorated its effects. Stay safe. Cheers.

@gui18bif

3 жыл бұрын

Im afraid my brain will one day do this to me. I do have migraines since the age of 1 and sometimes i day dream

@KatTheScribe

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same kind of thing. I have chronic vestibular migraine, and have had several instances in which I did not know I was falling down until I was on the ground. Neurological disorders are very odd and difficult to catch and to diagnose.

@gui18bif

3 жыл бұрын

@@KatTheScribe I've had a few instances that my brain kind of shuts off. But never on my own. Only when I'm with people around. So they help me...

@Sam_Green____4114

3 жыл бұрын

Newson was accelerating though - towards the wall !!

I’m 56 and racked with syndromes, some make you freeze, some make you shake, now they have names, they did not 50 years ago. Most can be identified by experts only and then it is only opinion as there are no definitive tests. Accept that accidents happen and some may never be explained to anyone’s satisfaction. Pray for the survivors, some of whom i’ve met and remember the deceased.

I was a junior computer programmer working for NatWest near the station. The sound of endless sirens from the emergency services will haunt me forever. One of the others on the course, a young girl, didn't arrive at her normal time. We knew she used that tube service and we feared the worst. After a couple of hours, to our relief, she turned up, but was in no condition to do anything. She was white as a sheet obviously in shock. She'd been on the train behind having missed her normal one, the one involved in the accident.

@tomboychick

3 жыл бұрын

No wonder she felt terrible. The relief & "Thank god I wasn't on that train" emotions combined with survivors guilt & thinking 'selfishly' only about themselves. All perfectly normal, expected & healthy responses. In a sense, she & those like her, were victims of the accident too.

@SuzLa1

3 жыл бұрын

Computer programming must have been quite different in 1975?

@MrGoneTroppo

3 жыл бұрын

No-one will ever know what really happened. Awful.

@musicstewart9744

3 жыл бұрын

I hope she was able, perhaps with lots of psychological work, to process that and have a good life.

@LisaMarie-xp4ym

3 жыл бұрын

Stewart Low probably a good strong, sugary cup of tea. Counselling? It was 1975!! I don’t think it even existed then!!

A lot of firemen and rescuers went without sleep in order to haul bodies out in that murderously hot narrow tunnel. They did a good job.

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed, they all worked tirelessly in awful and upsetting conditions. They all deserve medals I think.

@thelwulfeoforlic6482

3 жыл бұрын

tjfSIM - my father NEVER got over what he saw on that day, not until his dying day

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

@@thelwulfeoforlic6482 Sorry to hear that, was he one of the rescue team?

@thelwulfeoforlic6482

3 жыл бұрын

tjfSIM - yup from the LT side

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

@@thelwulfeoforlic6482 It must have been awful down there - I hope your father and the other rescuers did get some recognition and help for what they went through. You must have been very proud of him.

In '81 I used to travel from Drayton Park to Moorgate every day and always thought about the people who were killed in the crash six years earlier. On the return journey sometimes I would be on my own on the platform at Moorgate. You could feel the sadness.

Well Done. A sober, sensible, UNMELODRAMATIC report on a tragic mystery. I wish many Film/TV/Media personnel would learn from your work.

@abbafantasia

9 ай бұрын

I absolutely agree! I thoroughly enjoyed the professional unbiased presentation of this tragic disaster & the delivery which was easily digested without having to rewind! Well done!!

My late dad was using that train every day during the period the crash happened. That on day he was late getting his train........hence why I still had a dad the next day. He was really shook up as he knew people who were on that train 😧

A psychiatrist in another video on the Moorgate disaster suggested "temporal lobe seizure". I think this is the most likely explanation. I had two bouts of this ten years ago, never suffering it before or since. I was going to meet my daughter at a bus stop. Fifty yards from the stop I remember thinking how grey it was suddenly. That was all the warning I got. The next thing I knew was eight minutes later when I "came to" disorientated and confused in a strange street. In order to get there I had to have crossed two of the most dangerous road junctions in the city. Therefore my body carried out the mechanical action of walking with the mind shut down. If I had been in the driving seat of that tube train leaving Old Street for Moorgate and experienced this "temporal lobe seizure" like Newsom I would have driven the train efficiently but without consciousness or awareness until hitting the wall.

I travelled on the line into Moorgate the day before the disaster. Not my usual route, but one I'd taken because of a strike forcing me off my normal journey. It still sends chills up and down my spine, because I had a vivd memory of that journey; it was jam-packed and I was squeezed into a corner. Being tall, my head was bent over one of the glass panels by the end seat and I remember thinking as we went over the points just outside the station a little too fast for my liking; "If this train stops suddenly, I'll get a broken neck!" When I realised what had happened the next day I broke out in a sweat.

This presentation jolted my memory of this tragic accident. I was working fairly close to Moorgate on that fateful day and I can remember the constant stream of emergency vehicles tearing towards the site of the crash. Once it became clearer as to what had happened, a strange and very uncomfortable feeling of shock hit the area. A request for blood donations was made and I duly reported very quickly along with many others to try and help out. A very bad time for everybody involved. Thank you for your excellent and unbiased account.

I remember the day vividly. I was 25, working for OCL in Aldgate. People were straggling in. As news came through of the awful disaster a pall of gloom fell on the office, and the whole City, which became strangely quiet with less traffic. My company told everyone to leave early, ostensibly to help getting home, but really everyone was too distracted to be productive. I 'd met the last dead victim to be retrieved. He'd recently sold his sports car to another young friend who, thinking of the guy's mother, felt he couldn't turn up to the funeral in it, and borrowed someone else's.

@1963TOMB

3 жыл бұрын

Wasn't the driver's body the last one to be retrieved?

@prodiver7

3 жыл бұрын

@@1963TOMB Yes - I should have said passenger rather than victim.

@1963TOMB

3 жыл бұрын

@@prodiver7 Sorry I'm pedantic - It's the way I'm wired!

I was a young engineer on the investigation. After the wreckage was removed we drove a test train in and out of that platform at all sorts of speeds, almost hitting the wall again ourselves - it was scary in that cab. We saw nothing that could have caused it. The ride quality in 38 Tube Stock on that line was so rough anyway that the crossover hardly made a difference. The station stank of anti-septic and death. The driver was due to buy a car later and had £300 in his pocket - I think he was just day-dreaming.

@ChristianMcAngus

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, unfortunately day dreaming seems the most likely scenario. Just zoned out during a repetitive job, thinking of the car he could buy his daughter.

@twizz420

3 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure you're right. No other theory makes sense. He made plans for after work, and by all accounts he was sitting up and looking straight when it happened. He MUST have been daydreaming.

@alwaysdisputin9930

3 жыл бұрын

​@@twizz420 _"No other theory makes sense. He made plans for after work, and by all accounts he was sitting up and looking straight when it happened. He MUST have been daydreaming."_ Maybe he was buying the car to make amends but the daughter told him to go away & never come back. Is that him at 8:37 ? He seems ugly to me. I'm not good looking myself & so i know it can be miserable & lonely. In the Underground, passengers DGAF about other passengers. Maybe he DGAF about them either

@bombaymolotov

3 жыл бұрын

@@alwaysdisputin9930 what utter shite are you talking?

@ourcorrectopinions6824

3 жыл бұрын

"Day-dreaming" is far less likely than a seizure of the frontal lobe. It would make him appear normal but helpless to stop what’s coming.

I can remember just how badly my father was affected by this as he had been on this train on its first run that morning. It was the second run that crashed so he was told later that day. He was off work with shock for quite some time. A young girl who lived round the corner from us was one of those who lost her life. A disaster none of us will ever forget.

Maybe the driver suffered a epilepsy episode known as Petit Mal - where the person appears just to stare into space.

@Lyca31

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to say the same thing. I've know people have their first seizure in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. I used to work on the London Underground in the 80s and people spoke about the crash when we were doing training. (We did fire training at Moorgate) and I met people that knew the driver. (or at least they told me they knew him and they would have no reason to lie) and they told me that he was a nice normal bloke.

@francescapowell1538

3 жыл бұрын

My daughter has had these before she was diagnosed with Epilepsy. She would just appear vacant sometimes for a few seconds then other times it would seem like a minute or two she was just somewhere else.

@wilfbrown1575

3 жыл бұрын

@@francescapowell1538 y6j

@steelytemplar

3 жыл бұрын

I also wondered if it was something along these lines. It honestly makes the most sense.

@SafehandsChris

3 жыл бұрын

Personally I think he has had a seizure. I have epilepsy myself and sometimes I have an typical absences, staring straight ahead as you go stiff and unable to move. This would account for his hand still being on the dead mans handle. Potentially he would of been fully aware of what was going on, but couldn't do anything about it too.

It could be that the driver had an epileptic episode. I used to work with a bloke called Alan who would suddenly "sieze up" while looking completely normal and he would be aware of doing so whilst coming out of his episode. When the Moorgate crash happened Alan said about what people described of the drivers actions that it was exactly what he would have expected of his type of episode.

@adelestevens

3 жыл бұрын

@steve gale according to the evidence given by 2 pathologists there was an insignificant amount of alcohol in the drivers body assumed to have come from tissue degradation post mortem. There was also similar amounts in other bodies found in the front car. Both pathologists agreed that the amount of alcohol and type found would be "most likely" to have been produced by the body after death rather than have been drunk in the hours before.

@adelestevens

3 жыл бұрын

@steve gale paragraphs 75 to 79 of the official report into the accident state categorically that there was no alcoholic drink in the drivers body. You can read the reports via "The Railways Archive " website. > www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=98

@Regnbuesolv

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. I had a boyfriend who often had absence seizures, where he'd suddenly stare into the distance and go stiff. I strongly believe this is what happened to Mr Newman. My ex boyfriend fell down some stairs onto his head and a a year later started having grand mal seizures at night as well as absence seizures. This driver could have developed seizures from a bang to the head up to a year beforehand! That might have been why he missed his stop the week before too; the seizures had started. The poor man and the poor passengers. Rest in peace.

@stuartd9741

3 жыл бұрын

@steve gale You know to say the driver was drunk is an easy option or possibly lazy assumption? (see daily mail blame the driver). Liver damage could just mean he was a regular drinker. My money is on epilepsy, or sleep apnoea, Both of which can go un diagnosed.. Also if the pathologists thought there was evidence of a history of heavy alcohol drinking then the gov would be quick to blame the driver as a scapegoat.. There would also of been incidents of Newson turning up for his shift smelling of alcohol or incidents of his heavy drinking by work colleagues of the clock?... I'm thinking something un-diagnosed - the driver unaware of a health condition most likely a cause. ... In this incident the driver had _neurocardiogenic syncope_ (fainting episode caused by a drop in blood pressure) was aware of a condition yet still managed to crash the bin lorry. ...... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Glasgow_bin_lorry_crash

@stuartd9741

3 жыл бұрын

@steve gale Fair comment. I agree at the time being drunk was possible during a shift. due in part to no real employer no alcohol policies. However it's also possible he suffered an undiagnosed medical condition like sleep apnea - this might explain the witness account of the drivers normal posture or appearing not to react or slow the train. He was either drunk or perhaps asleep? If indeed he was drunk enough to to fall asleep must of had quite a lot to drink?

The Daily Mail there happily slighting a dead man's character without good evidence

@JagoHazzard

3 жыл бұрын

One of many reasons even Wikipedia doesn’t trust them.

@alexhatfield2987

3 жыл бұрын

Yup. That's the Daily Mail for you!

@jacksimper5725

3 жыл бұрын

All British media have got away with lying for years . Truth goes out of the window to get customers.it`s a stock in trade part of the entire UK media

@gilgameshofuruk4060

3 жыл бұрын

@@jacksimper5725 The British media have cultivated the modern attitude that *someone is to blame* for everything that ever happens. I've heard people talking about accidents and, even when inquests have concluded no one was at fault, they say "Well, I still so and so must be to blame..." The Daily Mail especially likes there to always be a villain in every story.

@johnsalmons9222

3 жыл бұрын

@@gilgameshofuruk4060 In UK law there are no road traffic accidents, only incidents, doubtless from the political weight of insurance companies, all close friends with the daily M

I was twelve when this terrible accident happened. Watching it on the news at teatime, the thing that I remember most was seeing my father's eyes fill with tears, which is pretty much what mine did just now whilst watching the video. Perhaps it was the memory of how it affected a tough guy like my dad, perhaps it was just the heavy sadness of the whole tragedy, either way, a tear has been shed today for all those poor unfortunate souls who lost their lives and for those whose lives have never been the same since. Thank you.

I've not come across this channel before, but this episode was in my recommendations and I'm so glad I watched. Well presented, with an exceptional standard of investigation and lack of bias. I too remember this being the main item on the news for days. I was 15 when it happened and living in London. Thank you so much for this excellent upload. Subscribed.

This was excellent if not sad. You did a great job. Dad would've loved it. Dad was a driver for LU from 1964 until 2000 and remembered this day very well. I used to use that exact platform to get to Essex Road. Always made me very emotional.

When i was a guard on BR, i used to work the trains into Moorgate platforms 9 and 10 and there were some mysterious happenings after this, i worked trains in an out for about 5 years and i heard a lot of stories about Moorgate and it is a tragedy that should not be forgotten, but sadly the truth will never be known, but i do not believe the suicide theory on this one.

@tropicalpalmtree

2 жыл бұрын

What were the mysterious happenings?

@philipevans1768

2 жыл бұрын

@@tropicalpalmtree There were quite a few but a few of the foremen who had to lock up the station at night after the last train had left, had ghostly experiences and one of them it frightened him so badly he would never stay after the last train had left he would be on it because it scared him so much. If you want the full story or more stories that I personally experienced It would require quite some time but am willing to do it for you if you want.

@tropicalpalmtree

2 жыл бұрын

@@philipevans1768 Make a youtube video detailing it all. It will be worth it. So many of us are fascinated by paranormal tube inciddents

@NextSound170

2 жыл бұрын

@@tropicalpalmtree yes please

@robertb7918

2 жыл бұрын

Some time in the eighties I read that when the line was being built, the tunnel was originally planned to continue on from Moorgate but it stopped there because the men working on the tunnel saw something that scared the Hell out of them and they refused to dig any further. This is of course the kind of myth that can circulate after such an event as the crash but it would be interesting to know if it might have been true - were there plans to continue the tunnel?

My aunt, who was in her early 20s at the time was in this disaster. She was in coach 2. Though badly injured, she survived, but it took 6 hours to get her out. Being petite probably saved her life.

I ran for this train and missed it - i spent 2 hours in the following train then had to walk back through the train and through the tunnel to get out - a frightening experience !!!

@LKeet6

3 жыл бұрын

my dad was on one of the trains that went straight through kings cross after the fire. They kept trains running through to try and keep airflow going and move the smoke out. not exactly a "close call," but definitely was shocking. both of us went through kings cross all the time. (as did many londoners, obviously...)

@LKeet6

3 жыл бұрын

@@carpe1959 that would have a huge impact on the amount of trains able to run and the total journey time. It's not realistic. Crashes are extremely rare and although a scary experience, having to walk through a tunnel for a mile or two is safe.

@LKeet6

3 жыл бұрын

@@carpe1959 neither us knows the "logistics" as well as the people who run the lines! But I've seen, for example, the Victoria line on the London underground, and in the morning it is absolutely mental. The platforms are packed and you often have to wait for multiple trains to pass before you get on. But they come super regularly. Like one will leave and the next one comes 60-90 seconds later. They made that change based on the numbers they were seeing and testing. If they stuck to your rigid rule, the morning situation on that line, and many others, just wouldn't be operational. So I AM thinking of the logistics of it...

@LKeet6

3 жыл бұрын

@@carpe1959 the logistics is serving more people! Increasing capacity!

@RobinHillyard

3 жыл бұрын

carpe1959 nice idea but not very practical during rush hour.

As I'm not a Brit this is the first I've heard of this tragedy. Some two decades earlier in the USA a similar situation arose. The Santa Fe railroad was running passenger service in Los Angeles using two-car DMU service. The long-time engineer failed to slow for a well-known curve in the line. The result was the cars going over on their side at speed. The windows on the ground side broke out, many passengers fell thru them, and were ground to ribbons between the ballast, broken glass, and the car sides. Cleanup was, much as in the Moorgate case, a grisly mess. This was known as the Redondo Junction train wreck. The difference in the US case was the driver survived, and had no memory of the accident. He was believed to have been operating completely normally, but for some unknown reason, he did not slow down for the turn, and yet he had no memory of not slowing down. Much like the Moorgate case, no reason was ever found, but the suspicion is that some unknown mental condition in the driver occurred, and he apparently simply was unaware of his inactions for a small but deadly period of time. While of course we can never know for sure, quite possibly both accidents were caused by the same or similar unknown conditions.

I am a big fan, yet I am still really impressed with the sensitivity with which this was handled. Thank you Jago!

A tragic and terrible accident and sadly a day that I’ll never forget, may God bless there souls and forever rest in peace.

I remember it well, it was the morning of my 10th birthday and my brother was travelling to work through Moorgate station. My mother was very worried until he came home that evening.

It's entirely possible the driver suffered a brain aneurysm. A good friend of mine died of exactly that. One moment he was joking while fishing, next he was collapsed dead. It would explain why Newson sat with a grip on the controls, if an aneurysm occurred at such a point in his brain. We'll likely never get an answer.

@ourcorrectopinions6824

3 жыл бұрын

more likely a stiff seizure, but either way, not the fault of the driver.

I remember the accident from the newspaper and TV reports at the time. Every time I see the name Moorgate I cannot not think of anything else except this tragic crash, even now.

@BoredInNW6

3 жыл бұрын

There are some names which become associated with disaster, and elicit a reaction for many years afterwards: Aberfan, Lockerbie, Windscale, Hillsborough, Ibrox... Moorgate was like that for me, and it was not until I was commuting through the station many years later that it lost its grisly association and I could think of it as just another station.

It’s always an easy bet to blame the driver. Especially after he is no longer around to defend himself .

@CycolacFan

3 жыл бұрын

But if the train was found to be mechanically perfect is it not the logical answer?

@CycolacFan

3 жыл бұрын

We'll never know.

@bombtwenty3867

3 жыл бұрын

@airscrew1 Can't have been a faulty train or the driver would've been very animated when using the controls to try and get it to stop.

@patagualianmostly7437

3 жыл бұрын

@airscrew1 An eyewitness testified to that. As stated in the video.

@lancemckellar

3 жыл бұрын

Agrees

Very good narration, I was a nurse at the London hospital and treated some of the patients in the icu terrible injuries very very sad.

@poilaaliop

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your service Maggie!

A terrible day that I remember well. I was nine years old at the time, and on the day of the crash I happened to be at home sick from school. I recall watching the news reports live on TV, and relaying the tragic events to my mother when she came home from work during her lunch break to make my lunch. She told me that before I was born she'd worked in an office at Moorgate and had used the station regularly. I was so shocked by the news reports I'd been watching that morning that I vowed on that day I would never board the Tube (growing up in inner London, but south of the river, it was a mode of transport I'd never had cause to use at that age). Fortunately the memories faded as I grew older, and I never kept that vow, but I still always associate Moorgate with the crash.

Excellent unbiased account..like most I go with the Seizure idea

A funny little line. It started life as the Great Northern & City Railway but was brought out by the Metropolitan Railway in 1913. When London Transport was created in 1933 it became part of the their empire, and although called Northern City it was actaully part of the Met until it closed. The stock, although outbased at Drayton Park, came under Neasden's control and they went back there for heavy maintainence. The crews were part of Met Line East grouping (Drayton Park, New Cross & Barking (Met) were the traincrew depots) and a friend of mine was a crew supervisor at Barking who remembers him there for a while before he moved to Drayton Park. He said he was always conscientious about his duties and never was late......

Let Les Newton rest in peace

@garfstiglz3981

3 жыл бұрын

He is, it doesn't preclude people from discussing what happened...

Two friends have had strokes that would exactly fit what happened here from how they told their stories. Thee £300 in his pocket makes me doubt any other reason.

@troodon1096

3 жыл бұрын

Stroke or seizure seems pretty likely. The suicide theory just doesn't make any sense.

@RichardWatt

3 жыл бұрын

My mother-in-law had a stroke a few years ago. She and my wife were visiting their bank and my wife was at the counter carrying out the transactions they needed to do, and her mum was sitting in one of the waiting area seats. My wife (who's a nurse) just thought she was having a nap, but they had to call the ambulance and after that, the doctors identified the cause. So, basically, what I'm trying to say is that someone can have a stroke but just look like they're distant or asleep for a moment, but something more serious has happened.

Nicely edited, narrated and researched. Thanks for sharing. This is one of those disasters that has haunted me ever since I first read about it some 30 years ago. I think it's the very peculiar vision of Newson sitting at his cab, staring straight and calmly ahead as his train flew through the station, taking all those lives with it. I too think it's very unlikely to have been suicide, given the lack of evidence to support the theory, and the fact that he clearly intended to buy his daughter a car later that day. As you say, no one will ever know for sure, but some form of seizure or aneurysm would seem the obvious culprit - perhaps such a thing had happened and escaped detection in the autopsy due to the decomposition.

@oldbloke5277

3 жыл бұрын

I thought the same. Stroke etc. I had a friend when we were both 'on the buses' out here in Australia. He got to a terminus and his leaving time came and went. He remembers a female passenger asking him if they were going, but he then couldn't remember how to start the bus. This is actually the first I've heard of this disaster as we'd left England for Australia at the end of '74 and in those days, we just didn't get a great deal of overseas news.

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldbloke5277 Yes stroke does seem to be a very likely culprit. If that was the case it must have been terrifying for him seeing what was happening but not being able to stop it. A very strange disaster that will always be a mystery.

@warweezil2802

3 жыл бұрын

The thing is that medical science and forensics back then were far from the level we are at today, over 40 years later there may well have been more opportunities to investigate this more fully. But without wishing to emphasise the gory aspects of slamming a heavily built 38 stock into a clay backed brick wall at some 35mph, I understand the already minimal cab width was reduced to around 13 inches, give that some of the front bodywork would have compressed and folded back inwards, and that the bulkhead behind the driver on this type of rolling stock is (from memory) around 15” thick and quite substantial carrying various switches for lighting and isolating equipment as well as (iirc) fuse equipment the space occupied by the drivers body post impact would have been very minimal. We don’t know what condition the drivers body was in with relation to impact or crush damage.

@tjfSIM

3 жыл бұрын

@@warweezil2802 All very good points. I think another major problem was that decomposition was already well underway when they eventually got to him, due to the time elapsed and the hot and humid conditions. It sounds like you know your stuff about the stock though :)

@warweezil2802

3 жыл бұрын

tjfSIM I worked for London Regional Transport as it became in 83/84. I eventually ended up on Northern line train crew in the mid 80s and have driven 38s when they returned to service on the Northern Line around 1986. There was some criticism of LT training in the report into the accident, but speaking from my experience of doing 2 train crew courses in the early 80s (1st Guard then Driver) I think that the fact that I retain so much of that training 30 years after working my last driving duty says a lot for the quality of the training I had at the Railway Training Centre at White City, All 3 courses I took there were under the same guy and as each subsequent course “refreshed basic operation knowledge (Signalling and Traction current for example) I have to say his presentation of the course was very consistent, and went a long way to helping my be successful in passing.

Congratulations on your production of this concise & objective short programme. FYI: I did some depthy Human Factors Research Joint Departmental Projects when contracted to LUL's "Safety & Environmental Development" and "Chief Engineer's Directorate" in 2000 / 2001. One such Project was the Moorgate Disaster, 28/02/1975. This involved investigative work with (amongst MANY other official bodies) the BTP and LUL's then Chief Medical Officer (who formerly worked in an identical capacity for London Transport. The research was exhaustive and much of it was "Restricted", due to the nature of some of the highly sensitive documents and harrowing photographs associated with the crash, the latter chiefly belonging to the BTP. In spite of the frustrating non-conclusive verdict, I am personally certain that Driver Leslie Newson (56) most certainly did NOT commit suicide in this fatal incident.

@MrChristophX

3 жыл бұрын

At the time I was a relief railman and the next day I was sent to Old Street, the station before Moorgate, and for the next 10 to 12 hours I stopped every train with a red light and ushered the passengers off so the train could proceed under caution to Moorgate where it was turned round. The worst part of the job apart from the heat and smell was having to eject the journalists and sick individuals who tried to stay on so they could take a look. I think I did it two days. I did get a weeks holiday in recompense.

@prof.hectorholbrook4692

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrChristophX Interesting Christopher. What you describe is, unfortunately, typical journalist & sensationalist freak behaviour. If I'd had my way, any journalist breaching security and "bagging" a gruesome shot should have been chained to the tunnel at Moorgate where all the bodies were, sadly, being removed and forced to watch it all in the heat & stench. I've got no time for people like that.

@johnmurrell3175

3 жыл бұрын

@@prof.hectorholbrook4692 If you talked to the operators it was know that drivers occasionally failed to stop at stations - part of the reason might be that they tend to 'drive to the reds' ie they fail to notice green signals and other things and only brake when they see a yellow or Red Signal (Note in London Underground signalling practice at the time Yellow is a warning the next signal is Red. I can't remember if there was a red signal at the entry to the overrun tunnel or not or only on the buffers. Unfortunately these pre-cursor events were not recorded in any systematic way. Even if they had been and had been investigated it is unlikely that an investigation report that had an action that said - drivers fail to stop at stations so we should fit protection at the end of the lines' would be implemented - for a recommendation to be implemented it has to be commensurate with the event. Some of the recommendations from investigations I carried out were not implemented as they were either not commensurate or perhaps were inconvenient though they may have taken action since I retired.

@prof.hectorholbrook4692

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnmurrell3175 Interesting John. Thanks. There were two red lights in the four foot almost adjacent to the end of Platform 9 in February 1975 (one above the other), roughly 48 feet before the tunnel wall. Whilst your theory should in no way be discounted, the speed at which the train traversed the crossing on entry to the Platform would normally have thrown someone in the cab from one side to the other. This fact, plus other factors, seemed to have triggered internal LT Occupational Health opinions at the time to ("privately") lean toward a rare seizure condition in Driver Newson.

@johnmurrell3175

3 жыл бұрын

@@prof.hectorholbrook4692 There was also another driver on the Northern Line after this who managed to collapse and hold down the deadman handle. From what I remember the train was stopped by a trainstop on that occasion. I think there is still a possibility the driver in the Moorgate crash 'Glazed over' and failed to notice the station. It is not the first train on National Rail I have been on that has failed to stop at a station and I have been on one where the driver stopped at an unscheduled statin and could not work out why the correct side door enable did not allow him to open the doors !

loving your series folk :)

@deltafoxtrotgolfurbex

3 жыл бұрын

Fancy seeing you here folk! 🙂

@deltafoxtrotgolfurbex

3 жыл бұрын

James Donnelly - Have you ever watched any of IKS’s videos?

@deltafoxtrotgolfurbex

3 жыл бұрын

James Donnelly You’ll get it if you regularly watch their videos.

I actually went through Moorgate station that morning - albeit on a Circle Line train -around 15 minutes before the crash !

Most of us who have done a lot of driving will recognise times you went onto "autopilot" and although your subconscious mind did all the driving your conscious mind had turned off. Suddenly you realise your miles past where you thought. I recall a friend telling me of driving and thinking about normal day to day things before suddenly realising he was. three miles past his house. I wonder if this is as simple a thing as that.

@MalcolmCooks

2 жыл бұрын

absolutely this. the simplest and most obvious explanation. just that it never gets any attention because it is so mundane.

@hatjodelka

Жыл бұрын

A tube driver friend (now retired) slightly overshot a station for exactly this reason. It shook him up because it made him wonder about Moorgate.

@leonconnelly5303

2 ай бұрын

He rammed full speed into a wall

Excellent narration, thankfully without the ubiquitous, irritating, often sickeningly cloying and totally unneccesary musak (music) that unfortunately accompanies pretty much everything on TV, youtube, et al and frequently almost drowns out the dialogue. Ten out of ten! One thing that has not been mentioned as far as I can see is the information from some of the survivors that they felt definite braking as the train entered the station, albeit that it was travelling much too fast, and then felt the power being reapplied. Maybe I'm thinking of another accident.....? If this was the fact in this case then it would certainly have had considerable bearing on the outcome of the Inquiry. As a retired airline pilot of 40 years flying, fatigue and micro sleeping was experienced by all of us on a regular basis and must be a factor in so many transport accidents.

@TheOliogs

3 жыл бұрын

According to the accident report the sensation of braking upon entering the platform was caused by the motors losing power as the train went over the traction current rail gaps of the crossover. Power would have been automatically reapplied after the crossover (as Newson's hand had remained static with the handle in series).

Theories, theories, theories. One is that the effect of the fluorescent lights "flashing past" as the driver entered the station at high speed triggered an epileptic fit. (Witness all the warnings on TV programmes nowadays- "This programme contains flashing images"). Little was known about this effect in 1975. Whatever happened, 43 people died and 74 were injured in tragic and horrific circumstances.

@TheClockwise770

3 жыл бұрын

Yes that is a possibility but surely a driver of Newson's long service 25 years would be used to them , more likely he was running late as mentioned, London Underground were hot on trains running on schedules in 60s /70s and wanted to make up time so he was not delayed after his shift finished as he was buying the car for his daughter.

The most interesting theory I have heard, and the one I believe to be true, is this.... As the line was being readied for the handover to BR, service levels began to change to reflect a drop in passengers. Trains did not stop at Old Street at weekends and so trains would pass through at full speed onto Moorgate. Remember it was a very short line with only five stops and at weekends, only four. The 'underground' platforms - Highbury & Islington, Essex Road, Old Street and Moorgate - are all pretty much identical - white tiled, dark ceiling, neon lit - and the boredom and repetition for drivers was far higher than on other lines. COULD the driver have sped through Moorgate, thinking it was the closed Old Street?

@gary11able

3 жыл бұрын

28 Feb 1975 was a Friday not a weekend Jim Tuite

@philipramsden9395

3 жыл бұрын

Phil Ramsden My father drove tube trains for 25+ years and he said that the auto stop mechanisms placed at terminals were already operational at other places eg Elephant and Castle where he worked. The approach signal would only go green if the train speed was less than 5 mph, and if the train passed a signal at danger, the tripcock would put the brakes on. There was no such mechanism at Moorgate because it was originally owned by BR.

@warweezil2802

3 жыл бұрын

A s I understand it, the train was booked to work to the right hand platform (as seen from the approach end of the station). The train would have to traverse the crossover onto the opposite side and at any excessive speed likely to cause a catastrophic overrun would have most likely have thrown the driver from his seat, I seem to recall seeing somewhere that. T/D Newsome had braked at the semi automatic “home” signals reducing speed to negotiate the crossover, so at that point the train would have been fully under control , something happened probably after he passed the home signal, a documentary from the era but shown many years later on Discovery channel features an investigator saying that when they finally accessed the badly crushed cab, they found the driver seated upright at the controls with one hand on the brake handle, the reverser key in “forward” and the master controller in the “series” position, where it had become jammed as the housing was crushed jamming it. From this the medical explanation seems most plausible, the train was probably motoring in series into the platform, speed would have been lost traversing the crossover and as normal, drivers “ motor up” in series to get fully into the platform, the idea that the train went charging into the platform at line speed is laughable and ignores the layout of the approach and the route the train took into a platform. I think after he put the train back under motors something medical happened. The science at the time was so limited add to the the extended time the body remained in the heat of the overrun tunnel with no air flow to cool it. We covered this topic at LTs Railway Training Centre when I Took both of my Traincrew courses (Guard then Driver) , someone on the courses always seemed to ask the instructor about it. No one will ever know for certain, but most people with any railway operating knowledge agree that it was an accident, those who suggest otherwise are ill informed and do a huge disservice to those affected by this terrible accident. (And by the way, the lighting was fluorescent... not neon)

@jimtuite3451

3 жыл бұрын

@@warweezil2802 oh I never knew the train passed over the crossover before coming into Moorgate? So the driver slowed down, swapped across then speeded up again ...yes, not something you'd really do on 'autopilot' is it? Oh well, so much for that theory then

@philkenchatt

3 жыл бұрын

@@warweezil2802 I worked for LT at the time of this accident. I remember being told that there were marks on the crossover which might suggest that the train partially derailed causing the driver to strike his head.

Very well presented and objective throughout

@JagoHazzard

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

It is interesting to note that Driver Newson was a veteran of Dunkirk! In conversation with the guard of his train on the morning of the disaster they were talking about leisure activities, the young lad said that he was going camping, Newson stated quite vehemently that he had enough of that sort of thing whilst trapped on the beaches at Dunkirk being bombed and strafed and watching his mates die whilst waiting for rescue. At the time of the inquiry PTSD was not a condition which was understood or widely known about if at all. Being fairly intimately involved with ex servicemen suffering with PTSD I am convinced that Driver Newson suffered from PTSD and had suffered an episode as his train approached Moorgate causing him to "freeze at the controls and be quite conscious but completely unaware of the consequences of his actions. RIP for all the victims of the disaster and particularly Leslie Newson a victim of a very different tragedy.

@CycolacFan

3 жыл бұрын

Andy Scorgie interesting theory, I hadn’t heard that before.

@RA76951

3 жыл бұрын

And PTSD could easily account for the 'staring straight ahead' - and had flashed back to something horrific, so he just gripped the dead man's handle in fear rather than releasing it. I think that by far this is the most plausible theory now, good posting. Terrible event.

@architectofechoes4

3 жыл бұрын

Was it possible that the driver could have been briefly hypnotised be the tunnel structure, the bolted panels flashing by on either side? Although a much longer tunnel and used by much faster trains the Channel tunnel trains, I believe, have a special foot pedal system for keeping the driver alert along with fairly small windows in the cab because the pattern created from the concrete panels flashing past is very hypnotic.

@CycolacFan

3 жыл бұрын

Architect of Echoes would there not be evidence of that having happened before? Other than once overshooting a platform I believe he never had any problems when driving.

@architectofechoes4

3 жыл бұрын

@@CycolacFan Fair point. To be honest.

Having heard some firsthand accounts from people who've suffered strokes, I think that could be a real possibility. That he could continue to operate the train as he was used to doing, but fail to recognize the upcoming station and stop for it, or that he could fail to connect his recognition of the upcoming station with the idea that he needed to stop the train, could be consistent with the descriptions I've heard of the early stages of a stroke. It seems possible to me that the stroke was in early enough stages that it might not have been recognizable without modern MRI technology, especially after several days of decomposition.

@johnsullivan1307

3 жыл бұрын

Yea I tend to agree with you Max. I was a former train driver based at Golders Green for 30 odd years. Unfortunately I was medically retired due to a Stroke. My first week after my stroke was a nightmare,I did mot know where I was and indeed I did not know I had a Stroke until the hospital told me. Nevertheless I was left with weakness on my left side, my balance and speech problems.

@kharnethebetrayer4125

3 жыл бұрын

It’s a good theory. My thoughts lean towards an absence seizure, due to the driver staring forwards and hands on the controls still. There doesn’t necessarily have to be a history of seizures to suffer one so it’s pluasable.

@max_archer

3 жыл бұрын

@methven Arundell You apparently didn't listen to it properly either, because it was clearly stated, multiple times, that the results weren't entirely reliable because the body had been decomposing for several days. We've also made quantum leaps in both neurological science and medical imaging technology in the decades since this accident and I think it's very possible that they simply didn't have the means to detect a condition that we may have been able to identify now.

@kharnethebetrayer4125

3 жыл бұрын

methven Arundell i did listen to it properly, hence the reason I put forward my theory which is based on experience of working with people with abscence seizures, and if you had listened properly you would have heard that the narrator said no conclusive diagnosis could be made due to decomposition. So don’t start calling people thickos you when clearly me and others have retained more information from this video than you have

A sympathetic account of a tragic occasion. We will never know exactly what happened, but from the evidence it was surely unintentional and involuntary, and could not have been anticipated. The human brain is wonderful, but sometimes it plays strange tricks. Maybe the closest equivalent is the Grantham crash of 1906, where a double-manned steam train ran straight through a station where it stopped every night and was wrecked just beyond. The signalman testified that he had seen both men standing in their positions in the cab looking forward through the windows, yet neither of them acted. L.T.C. Rolt called it "the railway equivalent of the Marie Celeste"; he could have said the same about Moorgate if he had lived long enough to see it. RIP Leslie Newson and all who died.

I have a personal anecdote regarding this tragedy. My father was a driver on the London Underground at that time. Leslie Newson, the driver had boarded my fathers train and as with common practice of the time joined my father in the drivers cab. My father told me just after the crash that Newson did not appear drunk or depressed. My fathers theory of the cause of the crash was that Newson was distracted when approaching the station and realized that the train was traveling too fast to stop without overshooting the platform. Normal practice in that situation would be to abandon stopping at the station and carry on to the next station. Unfortunately, Moorgate station was, unusually, a "Dead End" platform. Some reports mention the train acceleration as it entered Moorgate Station. Leslie Newson probably made an error common amongst Train Drivers. He misjudged the approach to the platform and attempted to carry on to the next station with tragic results.

@adamkassemtv

3 жыл бұрын

Very plausible! 👍🏻

@Limegreenloony

3 жыл бұрын

John, I like your take on this, but..... I have been a driver on the Northern Line now for 35 years and I have actually experienced this scenario at Highgate northbound. I actually fell asleep driving my train whilst holding the 'deadman' handle in the off position. The natural thing for anybody to do when realising they are going too fast is to apply the brakes, as I did when I woke up as I entered Highgate station. It was only after applying the emergency brake did I realise I would not stop in time, I carried on straight through the station just as you said in your explanation. I should point out that due to safety features in place on the Tube, noone was in any danger here. If this had been the case at Moorgate, there would have been a loud rush of air from the 38 stock train and a huge cloud of dust as the emergency brake was applied. I have driven 38 stock trains many times so know exactly how they behave. The station man on duty would have been very aware of this noise and dust so I doubt very much he was just 'motoring through' realising he couldn't stop in time as he would most definately have made a brake application first.

@ourcorrectopinions6824

3 жыл бұрын

With respect, I disagree considering his abnormally high speeds preceding the crash for quite some time. This seems rather likely a medical issue, more specifically a seizure of the frontal lobe.

@john211murphy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ourcorrectopinions6824 Firstly, the reported speed that the train was not "Abnormally High" , it was higher than expected. Please could you cite your sources for your claim. If you have access to medical information not previously available to the investigation then you should make it available to the authorities. As I have a distant connection to this tragic event, I have take some interest in it. I have spoken to the man who drove Leslie Newson to work that day. He was my Father. A fellow motorman. I have spoken to several of my fathers colleagues about Mr. Newsons possible actions. Sure, a sudden unexpected medical condition could have overtaken, but there are far more, simpler explanations. I think that maybe "Occam's Razor" is probable the best method here. We, of course, will never know the specific cause of Mr. Newson's actions on that terrible day.

@john211murphy

3 жыл бұрын

​@@healthinfluencernews Yes. Before Mr. Newson began his shift, he was picked up by my father and joined him in the drivers cab. There is not much room in those cabs and if he had been intoxicated, my father would have noticed. As he told me at the time, that Mr. Newson din not smell of alcohol nor exhibit any signs of inhibition . He may well have been suicidal, but, seem his normal self during the time he was in my fathers company. It is very easy to blame the dead, they cannot speak.

I've always thought that maybe the driver had some sort of epileptic fit or seizure. Remember medical science wasn't as advanced in 1975 and he could have had some condition that wouldn't have been known about back then. I'm not sure how much knowledge of brain conditions there was in the 70s. Also mental health wasn't something people talked about then. If something like this happened today the cause would be worked out much quicker.

@SomeBritishGal1

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think he had a seizure. Would explain why his hands were still gripped on the controls because the seizure would've caused his muscles to lock up. If it was an aneurysm or a heart attack, he would've been gripping his head or chest and the dead man's switch would've activated.

@miscellaneousstuff6346

3 жыл бұрын

@@SomeBritishGal1 Maybe he had a seizure and by the time he came out of it he realised it was too late to stop the train and remained calm, staring death in the face if you will

@ianmoseley9910

3 жыл бұрын

Some sort of fugue state.

@51WCDodge

3 жыл бұрын

As I know, because it happned to someone I knew about 9 months ago. People can just drop dead.

@miscellaneousstuff6346

3 жыл бұрын

51WCDodge but surely he would be slumped over and not be putting pressure on the dead-mans switch?

Moorgate train crash seemed to be the forgotten disaster. I was 24 at the time and can remember it very well. This video has stirred up memories for me. There were plenty of theories going round as to the cause, but sadly we will probably never ever know. A really horrible event. Thanks for your video Jago, as I said, it bought bsck some memories, which in some ways I wish it hadn't.

@RA76951

3 жыл бұрын

Same here Steve. I was 16, and for a while years back I had to use Moorgate - I hated it, thinking everytime of that dreadful event and the those poor souls who perished.......

Jago, I really love your channel and was an early subscriber. This video is a perfect example of why I subscribed and remain a fan. Whilst you handle other subjects with hilarity and exquisite detail, this was handled with extreme sensitivity whilst not shying away from the detail, however difficult to cover. Superb and enlightening. Excellent work. Thank you.

Thanks for this Jago. I remember the tragedy well and later I travelled the line regularly, always thinking about it as we came into Moorgate.. You've done a very professional job. And, unusually for KZread, nicely spoken!

Excellent and unbiased account, and I agree with you about Lawrence Marks' biased analysis. Two things: Firstly, I've known five people who actively committed suicide, and two people who died of self-neglect and starvation due to depression, and one person who made suicide attempts as a child and nearly died through self-neglect due to depression as an adult (being aware of most of those were as a result of voluntary activity I was involved in, two were childhood friends who killed themselves a few years after I last saw them). In my experience, things are either known beforehand or come to light after their death, that point to the person having factors in their life that it is easy to see could well have contributed to a state of mind where at some point they felt like killing themselves. None of those who died that i had known had absolutely nothing going that anyone could think of would have been likely to contribute significantly to a decision to kill themselves. Given the amount of investigation into the driver, the chances of him being of a state of mind where he felt like killing himself and did so in the manner that occurred, without ANYTHING of substance being found that might explain it, seems to me very unlikely indeed. The issues being put forward to suggest he felt like killing himself are completely trivial in comparison with the kind of situation that tends to make men want to kill themselves, from my experience. Lawrence Marks was in my opinion, clutching at straws. Secondly, there is a type of seizure called 'absence' seizure. It took me about five seconds to find because I couldn't remember the name. I looked up ' seizure' a d 'trance'. This fits the description of what happened very well, including overrunning a station previously. According to one source, a typical absence seizure can last up to 10 seconds, which would not be long enough, but according to WebMD, a typical (as opposed to atypical) absence seizure can last up to 30 seconds, which may well have been long enough to cause the accident. Or it could have been an atypical one - there appears to be not distinct ones as such, just an arbitrary boundary between the two types, The key aspect of absence seizure is that to the outsider the person can look perfectly normal, at least for a short period of time, as if they are looking at something if that's what they were doing, whereas they will in fact be frozen on the outside and they have temporarily lost consciousness and connection with the outside. If I recollect, this type of seizure was not really known about in 1975. But this seems to me to be the most likely explanation by far.

@DepakoteMeister

3 жыл бұрын

I know two people who have committed suicide with no known reason. The problem is, those with mental health issues are often those who are least suspected of having mental health issues. I speak from considerable personal experience.

@herseem

3 жыл бұрын

@@DepakoteMeister Well, you highlight an important point - people often try to keep up appearances, and people are often very good at keeping up appearances until they break. I was in a position to be aware of at least some of the issues of the people that died, and especially in cases where I found out extra stuff after they'd died, I was able to join the dots more than most. One person who I knew was going to die (she declined my advice to seek a different type of therapist from the useless one she'd been seeing) and who had already declined a feeding tube, didn't want her mother or other members of her family to be aware of certain things that I was aware of. I've just remembered there was the football commentator Gary Speed who committed suicide without much warning. One of the apparently anonymous victims also mentioned that they'd seen Gary Speed abused by Barry Burnett, which he apparently denied had happened. However, there could be multiple reasons why he'd not owned up to it happening that I can think of at least. That kind of situation could cause stress for multiple reasons, and in my experience, torment that remains unresolved tends to come back and bite you later.

@DepakoteMeister

3 жыл бұрын

@@herseem Indeed. Mental health can be a fragile thing. Another point worth remembering is that some people can feel agreeable to suicide in principle for a very long time, years, but the actual suicide may be a spur of the moment decision with no planning at all. I do understand completely why no one wants to label Moorgate as a suicide, but I see no reasons to discount it.

@herseem

3 жыл бұрын

@@DepakoteMeister I agree, suicide can't be discounted as the definitive cause was not identified, my opinion though is that on the balance of probabilities, which is the normal test for this kind of situation, what we now know points more to a likely absence seizure. I would also argue that for people who feel agreeable to suicide in principle and the actual suicide being a spur of the moment decision, based on the fact that for most of the suicides / 'death spiral' deaths I was aware of critical stuff that most other people were not aware of, I still think it's likely that there was unresolved stuff there that most people were simply not aware of, and a feeling of not being able to share their situation is more typical of guys anyway who like to go into their cave and solve their own problems, and that some change of conditions or passage of time, or additional factor, tipped them over the edge.

@WhatALoadOfTosca

3 жыл бұрын

This is hardly an unbiased view.

Excelent series, very well presented. I was an 18yo in London when this happened, and often travelled this station.

Many tube drivers and collegues of the driver were asked for their explanation of why this happened and many said that they thought he had quite simply forgotten which station he was entering. No need for any complicated theories.

@choppy249

3 жыл бұрын

mgml . Yes , but even if he had forgotten what station he was entering , he wouldn’t have forgotten that he had to stop to let all the passengers off would he ? I mean even if he had of got the stations mixed up he would still be aware that he had to stop . Unless there was a through train which didn’t stop at every station . I guess that could just be plausible . But surely if that was the case he would of suddenly , instinctively , desperately braked when he saw the buffers and dead end straight ahead . You could not miss that if you were looking ahead as all the eyewitnesses say he was . And apparently the train didn’t brake at all before hitting the terminal . Some people even said they thought it speeded up . I just cant understand it .

@dukenukem5768

3 жыл бұрын

But there was a fixed red lignt at the end of the tunnel at which he should have stopped anyway, wherever he thought he was.

@highdownmartin

3 жыл бұрын

Duke Nukem red lights don’t stop trains mate. You could learn that off by heart. And have you ever experienced the difference between the auto brake( Westinghouse) and an EP brake ? Thought not. You’d know that the ep is way faster as it applies the whole length of the train instantly. So why stop reading the comment after someone has written a true statement. ?

@dukenukem5768

3 жыл бұрын

@@highdownmartin You misunderstand my comment. The OP suggested he mistook Moorgate for a through station [maybe Old St] at which he was not due to stop. My point was that the red light should have told him to stop anyway. I have driven LU trains and know all about EP and Westinghouse brakes, but that has nothing to do with OP's point.

@neonskyline1

3 жыл бұрын

I'm going with some kind of illness that froze him

I remember that day very well, I was living in London at the time and working at King's College Hospital, we were notified that the hospital would receive some of the injured passengers from the crash. A terrible disaster.

If the neurological evidence could not be conclusive, because of body decomposition...then I reckon the poor man had a huge, massive stroke, maybe a minute, maybe less, before he entered the station, thus 'locking' his motor-neuro functions in his body and that's why his hand was still on the dead man's handle. He was reported to be looking straight ahead. Was he paralyzed by a stroke?

@philipcurrie5003

3 жыл бұрын

@methven Arundell A stroke is caused by a blockage in the blood supply to part of the brain which causes the affected part to die. By the time of the autopsy it would have been impossible to identify any part of the brain affected by a stroke.

@octowuss1888

3 жыл бұрын

@methven Arundell Why can't people like you listen properly? The narrator clearly states that the drivers body was badly decomposed after being left in the hot tunnel for four days. As a result, any evidence of a stroke may have been lost.

@dfuher968

3 жыл бұрын

When ppl talk about a "massive" stroke, that is still just a blood clot, quite small in size. After being crushed on impact and the body decomposing in the sweltering heat of the tunnel for 4 days, a blood clot would be impossible to prove. And indeed, the autopsy did NOT confirm no stroke or heart attack, only that it had not been possible to confirm, whether or not a stroke or heart attack had happened due to the advanced state of decomposition. As was stated in both the official report and this video.

Very interesting. I was only a kid at the time and I still remember it well and how shocked Londoners were. I still feel sad for those people .

Working in Moorgate recently on some new railway equipment behind the buffer stops I saw a little wrench with an homage to Newson and the passengers. Quite eerie down there working alone

My guess: The same as causes motorway pile-ups: Boring repetitive driving that saps concentration. I think Marks was talking bollocks and unjustifiably smearing the driver.

@EnglishLaw

3 жыл бұрын

Anyone suffering from bordom whilst driving should have their license removed.

@blue9multimediagroup

3 жыл бұрын

@@EnglishLaw you obviously don't drive then

@KebabMusicLtd

3 жыл бұрын

I would go mechanical malfunction, even though the investigation cleared the train of any such thing. I have lost count of the number of Airline Crash Investigations that concluded that pilot error was to blame, even though the number of hours of flight between aircraft overhauls had been greatly increased. Or the occasions where technicians had warned of the danger of catastrophic failure due to the limited lifespan of a particular component. Of course, the investigation is going to blame the one person who cannot defend himself. How much compensation would have had to be paid out, had the findings been mechanical failure?

@GaryNumeroUno

3 жыл бұрын

@@EnglishLaw I drive trains in Oz good buddy. I guess I should have had my 'licence' removed years ago! It is boring as batshit at times especially during night hours but I love my job. It doesn't mean I'm unsafe either but it can be repetitive.

@alwaysdisputin9930

3 жыл бұрын

@TBirdNeil The court said that boring repetitive roads is no defence A-G Ref (No 2 of 1992) [1993] 3 WLR 982 Court of Appeal "The appellant, a lorry driver, crashed into some cars parked on the hard shoulder of a motorway. Two people were killed. He raised the defence of non-insane automatism based on "driving without awareness" induced by "repetitive visual stimulus experienced on long journeys on straight flat roads". The defence of automatism was left to the jury and the defendant was acquitted. The Attorney General referred a point of law to the Court of Appeal as to whether such a condition could found a defence of automatism. Held: The defence of automatism should not have been left to the jury and that the state described as "driving without awareness" was not capable of founding a defence of automatism. Lord Taylor CJ: "As the authorities … show, the defence of automatism requires that there was a total destruction of voluntary control on the defendant's part. Impaired, reduced or partial control is not enough. Professor Brown [who gave expert evidence for the respondent] accepted that someone "driving without awareness" within his description, retains some control. He would be able to steer the vehicle and usually to react and return to full awareness when confronted by significant stimuli." www.e-lawresources.co.uk/cases/A-G-Ref--No-2-of-1992-.php#:~:text=A%2DG%20Ref%20(No%202%20of%201992)%20%5B1993%5D%203,WLR%20982%20Court%20of%20Appeal&text=He%20raised%20the%20defence%20of,and%20the%20defendant%20was%20acquitted.

Many thanks for this video: I remember it happening and have read a couple of books about it, although not Mr Marks book. It seems all possible causes were eliminated at the time, apart from driver Newsome suffering some kind of seizure. Two witnesses on the platform noted that he was staring fixedly ahead and perfectly still, as if he had been frozen.

@patagualianmostly7437

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, but he had, within the previous few seconds, correctly negotiated the change -over tracks as he entered the station, a procedure which required positive action on his part....Brake, or cruise, then reapply slight power to get to the station proper. At least, that's what I understand from reading all the previous comments.

@TheOliogs

3 жыл бұрын

@@patagualianmostly7437 According to the inquiry report Newson made no further input to the controls after having wound up to parallel (full motoring) position, immediately upon leaving Old Street, and so during the last 50 or so seconds, if I remember correctly, which would include the crossover and indeed the majority of the journey between Old Street & Moorgate, made no further movement at all on the controls. A fact which would seem to give credence to seizure/flash back theories.

@patagualianmostly7437

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheOliogs Hi Brian, Yes, sadly that is the only conclusion left that fits the scenario. Had they been able to remove the body almost immediately, I'm pretty sure the P.M. would have confirmed that..... But after 4 days...well, we'll never know for sure, will we? RIP all those who perished. Stay Safe.

@ourcorrectopinions6824

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheOliogs Exactly. All the people here trying to imply he was bored or “spaced out” are ignoring even more evidence that contradicts subconscious negligence. The evidence they do have of his body position, what he did and didn’t do, and what witnesses saw, all align with a major temporal lobe seizure.

Superbly balanced and narrated. My Dad worked for LT driving service and PWay trains from Neasden depot, (plenty of photos of him in Red Panniers). The rolling wreckage was taken from Moorgate to Neasden and Dad described it as a terrible mess. Very informative and balanced. Spot on. I always shudder when I look at that tunnel wall. Matt Wood

Fascinating video Jago. A terrible incident which you recount with sympathy and tact

Mr marks is completely wrong.his judgement is horribly affected by his personal involvement in this incident. The only conclusion is that no one will ever know for sure.

@RobinHillyard

3 жыл бұрын

Paul Cowell well, in fairness, the suicide theory was the prevailing explanation at the time. I always thought it was balls but that kind of thing sells newspapers.

If they got him out of that mangled mess I doubt there was much left intact to examine

@warweezil2802

3 жыл бұрын

Lamp Light I can easily believe that. The cabs on the 38s were very narrow, if indeed he did hit the wall at over 35mph the front cab would have crushed to almost nothing very quickly, there wasn’t much to crumple in terms of space

@genepozniak

3 жыл бұрын

@Alan Cogan Both of those are pretty rare. A stroke is far more common and can have any of a large number of strange effects.

@warweezil2802

3 жыл бұрын

Alan Cogan My view as an ex driver is that it was a medical episode that was undiagnosed and possibly beyond the medical science of the day. I felt he started with a conclusion and fitted his narrative to fit that.

@genepozniak

3 жыл бұрын

@Alan Cogan I Googled them and they are rare, non-stroke artifacts.

@genepozniak

3 жыл бұрын

@Alan Cogan So you say things, and when someone corrects you, you get all whiney and cry, "That's not the point! Why are you arguing with me?! Wah!" That's just sad.

Your conclusion makes sense to me. I knew a sea captain, well respected for his knowledge and conscientiousness, who was responsible for an accident (fortunately no one was hurt). The first officer on the bridge at the time, said, "he had a black-out", much later ascribed to the onset of Alzheimer's. He appeared to be perfectly OK, but after he retired, he described to me how it affected him. "One day I was giving a lecture when suddenly everything I was about to say just vanished."

I remember one theory at the time was the short and repetitive shuttle nature of that line may have led the driver to fall into a daze. An even shorter and more repetitive journey was the Aldwych shuttle, where I believe drivers had to rotate duties.

Listening to your review of the incident, it occurred to me that maybe what happened was the same as what can happen to skydivers. It is easy to become transfixed on the ground as you plummet down, you have to look away. In a tunnel with the swishing by of the walls I can imagine it would be easy to develop “tunnel vision” and become transfixed. I am a bus driver with 21yrs experience and we are cautioned against staring straight ahead for too long at a time, hard to avoid in a tunnel. The burst of light upon entering the platform may have been too little too late to snap him out of it. Not a criticism but seem highly unlikely that it was deliberate, just a tragedy for all involved. RIP

Most modern day doctors believe Newson may have suffered from either transient global amnesia (a disruption of his short term memory where he would have forgotten where he was and what he was doing, which would explain why he made no attempt to slow the train down on approach) or akinetic mutism (where he would have remained fully aware of his location, but a mental block in his brain prevented him from physically moving, which would explain why he didn't react to or instinctively raise his arms in anticipation of the incoming crash and also fits in with the previous incident of him overrunning the station. He was found at the controls in some sort of trance, sitting rigidly upright and staring straight ahead, seemingly aware of his surroundings but not reacting) Some paranormal enthusiasts theorise that he saw a ghost in the tunnel (in the weeks before the accident, some maintenance workers witnessed an apparition with a look of indescribable and terrifying horror on his face who disappeared through the end wall of the tunnel) and it ended up distracting and/or terrifying him.

A well balanced presentation. Two and a half years ago my wife suffered a very rare type of stroke, a bilateral thalamic Artery of Percheron stroke. After several months in hospital the cause was never established, it was established that it was not caused by a bleed nor a blockage. There were and still are none of the usual signs of a normal stroke e.g. no facial droop, no paralysis of any limbs, no drooping of the tongue etc. I am inclined to think that the driver of this tube did indeed suffer some unusual neurological problem. I well remember the day as I was working in Pall Mall and I recall how it was virtually impossible to buy an Evening Standard.

A really well done informative video, very sympathetically put together, well done again. 👍🏽

I new someone who suffered the brain theory mentioned here. They were driving a car at the time. It all happened within a 30 second time scale which resulted driving into a bus at traffic lights at 30 mph. They survived luckily and received broken ribs. The condition was then diagnosed at the then Brook Hospital in London. This was back in the early 90s.

My father worked on the underground at the time and he told me it was possible to remove your hand from the brake and keep the tube train running with a bent piece of metal made to hold the brake down and that this was a practice some drivers used to do to have two hands free to read newspapers or eat sandwiches or take a drink from flask it was even known that they could even accidentally nod off and drive straight through stations and this was probably covered up by the management at the time

A well presented and unbiased view of the facts, nicely done.

A couple of years before his death my father had a TIA (mini stroke). It lasted for a few seconds and he was fine afterwards but following that he began to have petite mal epileptic episodes, where he would suddenly freeze up, staring blankly off for about 30 seconds or so before coming out of it. The description of how the driver looked as he entered the station reminded me of how my father looked.

I wonder if he had developed epilepsy. Sometimes those with it can simply have an "absence", where they just sort of stare into space for a while before coming to and wondering what's going on. I've seen it happen to a family member many times.

The last theory that I heard was that Driver Newson had a brain seizure and that this would explain what happened. Unfortunately as you note his body had degraded and it proved impossible to reach any conclusions

Now if you told me a day ago I’d be into videos about trains, architecture and urban planning in London I wouldn’t have believed you but here I am. Also, I appreciate your little content warning at the beginning. It’s a nice courtesy, especially for those like me who have no idea about the subject matter at all.

Jago, excellent work here. Unbiased and extremely respectful to all. Carrera would be a great guy to interview in a potential follow up.

I was only 9 when this happened but I remember it well - my dad was involved somehow in the periphery of it all - he was part of the railway union indeed went on to become the leader of the NUR and later the RMT - so although I was so young I knew how tragic it all was and how awful

Interesting and sad. I remember this, big news in .75, I was 9. I've read much and seen reports on this too. I agree with you, conclusions drawn from facts points to a tragic accident. Plus he was carrying £270. I understood he had a 'Brain Aneurysm'. causing him to stiffen up. Instead of falling and releasing 'dead mans handle' he acclerated the train. His body was brought out last, decompostion had started rapidly with heat build up. Sad for tragic loss to Mr. Newson and his passengers.

Very interesting video. I remember watching the news on the day of the accident, I was just 13, it was the first and most enduring memory of this kind I remember. This many years on, when I hear the name, my memory kicks in and a great sadness falls over me. This video had the same effect, but it was still, very informative so many thanks for this.

I appreciate the delicate, respectful but searching recounting of a dark day in London's recent past. It was an event that I was aware of at the time, and have often wondered about as I travel in and out of that station.

I remember that day of that very tragic accident there was talk that he had seen a ghost in the tunnel we will never know what happened🤔 may all 43 people who died R.I.P🕯

@lancemckellar

3 жыл бұрын

I read that theory once. A maintenance worker had died in the tunnel in 1950.

@didwest1249

3 жыл бұрын

Yep I read that it appeared in the tunnel suddenly apparantly

Could have been an absence seizure as well. It will leave no traces, and actually makes the most sense, since all other expanations are not satisfactory.

Thank you for this fascinating insight. I was away in the Merchant Navy when this happened.

A well balanced and informative account of this tragic evident and its consequences. Well researched, as always. I particularly remember that one of the survivors was a young police officer, whose leg had to be amputated at the scene (I think), in order to free her from the wreckage.

The money and the purchase of his daughters car later in the day could easily have been a distraction that made him lose track of which station he was at, and if he had noticed he was moving too fast to stop in time, might have assumed he could skip the station and stop at the next one.

@Geotpf

3 жыл бұрын

That makes the most sense. The purchase of the car seems to be the only thing the driver was doing out of the ordinary that day; maybe he was thinking/worrying about it and the cash he was carrying around (this would have been a large purchase and a large amount of cash for the time) and completely forgot his duties.

@warweezil2802

3 жыл бұрын

Maglev Rabbit there’s still the question of the train taking the right hand route at the crossover, that wouldn’t have been normal anywhere but a terminus and both the violent ride (and the certain rail noise generated) caused by the excess speed across the points and the change of direction would have alerted any driver that was in full control of his faculties. At any point in the platform had he “dropped the handle” the impact force would have at least been mitigated. Having had to drop the handle on a Westinghouse equipped train when a tree fell across the line in high winds as I approached, I can testify to the great braking effort that results from that action.

@imogenimeson664

3 жыл бұрын

@@Geotpf Nah it's bollocks and a sexist comment. The apparition makes most sense bet if the ghost was female then all would blame it for the accident.

@2760ade

27 күн бұрын

Big red light in the tunnel indicating a dead end? Surely he couldn't have missed that and realised there was no 'next one'!

Driving a subway train is way harder psychologically than most people think it is. You are doing the exact same thing every day for years. A subway tunnel is a dark, eery, and inhospitable place with no natural light whatsoever. The driver is constantly looking at the vanishing point down the tunnel. I am absolutely convinced that this poor train driver got hypnotized and lost all his senses. For several seconds he must have been in a trans-like state. Unable to react to the terrible fate that awaited him. Chilling.

Very interesting to watch. Finally learnt what those things (Moorgate control) at stations are for.

That was a very measured and well researched video, thank you. It’s a very sad tale, and I doubt we will ever know what happened.

The driver took unwell seconds before entering Moorgate Station & it was nothing more than a tragic accident....

@A_10_PaAng_111

3 жыл бұрын

Or finally worked up the courage to end it all. Sorry. The fact he had a platform overrun a couple weeks prior is very damning in my book. The Germanwings pilot who flew his loaded passenger plane into the ground a few years back did the same thing. Had 1 or 2 dives he recovered from on previous flights. Practice runs or change of heart.

@dfuher968

3 жыл бұрын

@@A_10_PaAng_111 Except all evidence points away from suicide. The Germanwings pilot had plenty in his background, that came out after the fact, nothing was ever found about Driver Newson to even hint at suicide. It was and is pure conjecture with no facts to back it up.

There is another possibility. Newsome was a Dunkirk veteran and, according to the report, the conversation had turned to this in the Mess Room before his shift had started. This might have led to his thoughts turning to this during his shift. Furthermore, the tunnel lights were lit on the approach to Moorgate - the reason for this escapes me for the moment, but it was unusual. I believe it possible that Newsome might have been reminded of his experiences in the Mess Room at Drayton Park and then, seeing the bright flashes of light as the tunnel lights were passed on this last fateful journey, was taken back in time to his trauma, becoming temporarily paralysed in the process. This goes some way to explaining why he was "looking straight ahead" and not seeing anything but his memories and why, before the impact, he took no steps to protect his face, which is a human instinct, even in the case of suicide. However, we cannot ask him, so we shall never know. Even so, I consider this to be the most likely scenario given all the evidence.

@fuzzdmedic

3 жыл бұрын

There was a theory that the stroboscopic effect of the tunnel lights may have caused a seizure of some kind.

@panisvit7123

3 жыл бұрын

@@fuzzdmedic This was my thought on this, until I read about the Mess Room conversation, during which he said he preferred not to talk about it. A combination of triggers and a disastrous effect.

Thoughtfully and sensitively narrated. Well done.

Loving your content keep up the great work big respect 👊 bro

Whenever an investigation determines that “human error” is the cause of an accident, that should be the start of the real investigation. The first question is did Driver Newson go to work that day to do a bad job? I have no reason to believe he did. So with that in mind, what changed so that he ended up in this position? What may he have failed to see or what did he see that may have led to him believing he was elsewhere? What technical systems were in place in his cab to prevent help this occurrence? How well are drivers checked, both mentally and physically for their suitability to continue working? What help is given to drivers who become medically unfit to continue work? And these were a just a few questions from the top of my head.

Thinking a bout buying the car, being away with the faeries going through Moorgate thinking “it’s the one I miss out “ , a moment s loss of concentration equals disaster. Repetitive driving, its easy to lose track of where you are, and what your next stop is. Been a juice driver on the southern for years ,and it must be so much harder underground.

@TheBuccaneer1975

3 жыл бұрын

Yes the exact same thing crossed my mind. I've driven a repetitive journey and missed my exit because my mind was elsewhere. Lets face it - it only needs to happen once.

@patagualianmostly7437

3 жыл бұрын

@Mickey Mouse Thank you Mickey! Yes, all was normal until AFTER crossing the points..... the usual "brief application of power" as noted by survivors, in order to reach the platform following the slow down for the points.... There, at that point, begins the mystery as to what happened thereafter.

@patagualianmostly7437

3 жыл бұрын

Highdownmartin...... "Going through Moorgate thinking 'It's the one I miss out' "? Are you real? It was the previous station that was missed and only on Saturdays. The accident happened on Friday morning. He'd done the same run, to and from, several times that morning. It is like 2 to 4 minutes between stations. Have another think my friend.

@highdownmartin

3 жыл бұрын

Patagualian Mostly I’m only speaking from experience. I haven’t read the accident report, though I may do now, to get as much information as to speeds , braking, taking power etc as possible. It’s possible to have a micro sleep/ be mentally distracted and forget where you are and what you’re doing immediately after. The fact it’s Friday morning and the missing stop is only on Saturday has no bearing on it in those moments No one will ever know what caused it but people getting on their high horses are as misguided as Laurence Marks “ investigation “ .

@patagualianmostly7437

3 жыл бұрын

@@highdownmartin Hi again...Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh: Not my intention at all......I was merely trying to point out that he had reacted normally and negotiated the points change over seconds before entering the station....I feel that would have broken any "reverie" he might have been in. Bearing in mind the change over points are at the terminus station? Unlike Marks, I am not on any high horse (Understandable though in Marks's case, I think.) ...I am not drawing any conclusions whatsoever.... I'm simply as mystified as everyone else. Stay safe.

Watched about 9 of your videos Really enjoyed them 👊🏾👍🏾

Magnificently presented episode with the somber subject matter, well done young man 🫡