This channel is really cool

@deathsheadknight2137

8 ай бұрын

me too

@user-ob7ux5wh5k

8 ай бұрын

Really Really cool

@besacciaesteban

8 ай бұрын

Yes, you should also check the channels he follows or collaborated with. Lots of great stuff in this circle.

@julianguastadisegno

8 ай бұрын

It is indeed Onionknight

@edwemail8508

8 ай бұрын

Roger that

If the Lower Rhine and Elbe became destabilized due to competition between the Franks and Thuringians, it is reasonable to understand how the Anglo-Saxon migration was as strong as it was.

@hondacbrification

8 ай бұрын

AnGelo-SakSon traced a Scythians-Szkita-Scotty-Saka-Makarian-Macarian-Hungarian origins hence used names like Ætelstan to signal they ETELKÖZ origins.Turan-Turul bird is a important part of Hungarian folk stories and simply because Turan is written in a more western way as Thurangian it ain't going to be a more meaningful word in other languages similarly A Vár Hungarian-MacAr-Scythian nobility from which Varangian, Bavarian,Vardarian...or it's more western Burg-Berg Variant have later derived from have later lost they connection ti source culture and actual meaning of names.

@lord_tylor6866

6 ай бұрын

@@hondacbrificationno mate. Most Hungarian names now come from the lands they settled. Deal with Romanians first. But if anything, the names came from Finland or local tribes due to similar sands being amongst the Magyar cousins. It probably was more of a raid relationship exchange but I doubt

@hondacbrification

6 ай бұрын

@@lord_tylor6866 We have archeo-genetics like other sciences that prove you completely wrong.Slav-Slöwen a Indo-Iranian speaking group has converted Ugar,UnGar,HonGri,VenGri,WanGer …Ó’Ghur,OnoGuri are all Hungarian related names which is why even Deutsch-Dutch-Dutchian-Dacian call is Hungarians as German in form of UnGar-AnGer and not themselves. Romanian is even worse for the identity and state didn’t even existed before late 19th century since it derived from Bulgarians and other groups and they language. This why such people names have Zero meaning if the names are not directly translated from Hungarian since everything else that they claim as they own have absolutely ZERO meaning in they made up languages. Almost all Romanian settlement names in Transylvania come from the Hungarian settlement name. So the Romanians had Romanian settlement names, despite the original Romanian name of many Romanian settlement names have changed in the previous 100 years for various reasons. Often to disguise the nationality of the former inhabitants of the locality (the "Magyar" (Hungarian) prefix was removed or changed to "Nagy" (big), but the "Oláh" (Vlach/Romanian) prefix remained on the settlement pair: "Mare” and "Românesc"). The anti-ethnic motivation is also evident in the territorial distribution of the renames: the Carpathian Basin and Dobruja suffered the most. For example, the Romanians renamed 135 settlements in Kolozs county, while zero settlements were renamed in many old Romanian counties. In this list, we can see the renamed Romanian settlements by counties: Megváltoztatott román nyelvű településnevek Románia mai területén - Wikipédia Regarding Transylvania it is easy to recognize for us the Hungarian names behind the Romanian place names, because most Romanian names just came from the Hungarian place names. For example (Hungarian/Romanian names) Arad/Arad Várad/Oradea Kolozsvár/Cluj Maros/Mures Marosludas/Ludus Szeret/Siret Temesvár/Timisoara Hunyad/Hunedoara Segesvár/Sighisoara Szeben/Sibiu Szatmár/Satu Mare Székelyudvarhely/Odorheiu Secuiesc Medgyes/Medias Beszterce/Bistrita Déva/Deva Zilah/Zalau Magyarlápos/Targu Lapos Sepsiszentgyörgy/Sfantu Gheorghe Lugos/Lugoj Máramarossziget/Sighetu Marmatie Nagyszalonta/Salonta Bethlen/Beclean Szászsebes/Sebes Karánsebes/Caransebes Élesd/Alesd Szováta/Sovata Fogaras/Fagaras Borsa/Borsa Torda/Turda Korond/Corund … In many of them, I can recognize standard Hungarian words, verbs, nouns, but the Romanian names similar to Hungarian names or there are a shorten form, this way the Romanian versions are meaningless.

I’ve always been fascinated by these periodic movements of vast numbers of people. Like what happened around the fall of the Roman Empire, or also during the movements of the Sea Peoples around the time of the Late Bronze Age Collapse. How is it possible for groups, each thousands or tens of thousands of people, along with their animals and possessions, to move like that on foot and/or boat, for hundreds or even thousands of miles? The casualties from hunger, exhaustion, and conflict with other groups would be horrific. What would compel people to undertake such massive and dangerous efforts? It has to be messianic and/or a clear threat: “If we stay here we die, so we have to move and keep moving till we get to safety/promised land.”

@VineFynn

8 ай бұрын

Not much different from modern refugee movements, no?

@adamesd3699

8 ай бұрын

@@VineFynn Yeah, I was thinking that.

@lukaswilhelm9290

8 ай бұрын

​@@VineFynnit was very different, modern refugees don't bring weapons and lives a tribal autonomous community inside other people's country.

@12tanuha21

8 ай бұрын

@@lukaswilhelm9290 Say that to the Visigoths

@lukaswilhelm9290

8 ай бұрын

@@12tanuha21 visigoth lives thousand years ago not modern day, what's your point?

4:15 the practice of turning a defeated enemys skull into a drinking cup also passed to the Lombards via Avar influence as they tried it out on Cunimund of the Gepids so it's likely that other skull related traditions were adopted by Germanic tribes :)

@jaif7327

8 ай бұрын

also used by the bulgars, when they formed the second bulgarian empire and captured a byzantine emperor

@nenenindonu

8 ай бұрын

​@@jaif7327Bulgar Khan Krum - Nikephoros, Pecheneg Khan Kurya - Sviatoslav, Laoshang - Yuezhi chieftain, etc. a very common practice among Turkic rulers

@GAMER123GAMING

8 ай бұрын

The Celtic Boii also did the same.

@asimian8500

8 ай бұрын

Skull cups used as bowls or drinking cups goes back to Neolithic times and even earlier. Cannibalism was commonly practiced. Yes, we're all descended from cannibals.

@user-cg2tw8pw7j

6 ай бұрын

​@@nenenindonuSince when did the Kushans and Bulgarians belong to the Turks, according to the Romans and Arabs, they resembled the Persian peoples?

So many different tribes moving around and intermingling. It's hard to keep track of it all.

The periods just before, and just after, the fall of Rome have always peaked my interest. It seems as though Rome's destruction was almost immediately followed by a select few who tried to resuscitate what they could of the Roman standard of living. This was an awesome video! Thanks for including the source material

@recoil53

8 ай бұрын

Well the reason for that is there was no hard break of "a fall". It was a gradual decline over many life times. Generally, there was fighting back and forth in the area. Of course when there was peace the Romans tried to rebuild. Then barbarians were settled within the empire as "foederati" in some areas. Eventually they ran those areas. But the best economy that could be had was keeping the same production and farms going. In the transition from that to separate kingdoms the remaining Romans citizenry had different laws that governed them that the ones for barbarians. Of course rich people intermarried, keeping estates large. Regardless of the names of the kingdoms, barbarians were the minority by a lot. For instance Lombardy is named after the German tribe that settled there, but they were no more than 10% of the population.

@esti-od1mz

8 ай бұрын

Technically, Rome was never destroyed, but I understand your point

@LastBrigadier

8 ай бұрын

Romans were poorer than their Germanic counterparts.

The Thuringian Empire was probably a union of various Germanic tribes. The Visigoths were also called Terwingi. During the early Roman Empire it was the home of the Hermunduri. Also the Longobards (Niemberg culture - group) settled in the area of Saale and Elbe between 375-450. By the way, also the Angili settled just like the Langobards in the early Roman imperial period and later between Harz, Saale and Elbe. This is proven by Lombard brooches. So the name givers and founders were the Visigoths. The forerunner of the Thuringian Empire is called the Haßleben-Leuna cultural circle. They had close contacts with the Roman Empire. Probably they served as mercenaries and Roman soldiers. In 451, after the battle on the Catalaunian fields, they freed themselves from the Hun yoke.

"DAMN SON, WHERE'D YOU FIND THIS????" seriously though, every time i think i have a grasp on the ethno-linguistic landscape of post-roman europe, i end up blown away by something insane like this, fantastic stuff man, HC at it again.

In Grimms Legends the Thuringians took wifes from the Huns and had the same fate as the Britts at the hand of Saxons.

Odd that the Huns as Steppe nomads would dominate a hilly, forested area like Thuringia. The Sarmatians, Avars and Magyars all sought out flat plains where they could graze their herds.

@stefanfranke5651

8 ай бұрын

'Hun' is also a very broad term describing an association of tribes and warrior-bands and it's not even clear who was part of it and for how long when military-alliances may have shifted all the time. I'm not well versed in genetic studies but I read that all kinds of ethnicities found themselves in the hunnic expansion movement to the west and many adopted just certain "hunnic" cultural traits for prestige reasons or sealed alliances by marrying women from the steppe-herding tribes. There is also evidence for a very long genetic continuity for places in this region in the male population from the bronze age until today (see 'Lichtenstein Cave' near Dorste), so it's unlikely that the arrival of new people from the east lead to a complete exchange of the local population.

@sirrathersplendid4825

8 ай бұрын

@@user-ez1jo9qe3h - Where do you get that 20% figure? Besides horse archers all nomad hordes had a kern of heavier combat cavalry. And even troops that nominally fought on foot would need horses to cover the vast distances of the Steppe.

@sirrathersplendid4825

8 ай бұрын

@@stefanfranke5651 - Sure. The Hun horde is said to have included Alans, Sarmatians and Goths, and they doubtless picked up further subjects nations in Europe itself.

@sirrathersplendid4825

8 ай бұрын

@@user-ez1jo9qe3h - I’ve not seen any sources talking of numerous Scythian LI. Presumably you’re talking about coastal ‘farmers’ that Scythian warlords sometimes roped in to assist their efforts. Or maybe the Bosporan or Pontic armies where Scythians formed only a contingent. When nomad armies are spoken of, it’s always in terms of the ‘200,000 horsemen’ they were able raise, usually with no mention of a specifically dismounted element at all.

@domsjuk

8 ай бұрын

Well, actually the geographic centre of modern Thuringia is a large basin, the "Thüringer Becken", which is relatively flat and fertile, which covers the area between the mentioned Harz and Thuringian Forest. I am far from an expert on this topic, but afaik settlement patterns and the available evidence of agricultural use seems to suggest intensive settlement since at least the early middle ages and likely way longer, so I'd assume steppe people would have recognized the area's value.

Actually I just happened to coincidentally do some research on the battle of the Catalaunian plains. The Catalauni were a Gallic tribe that lived in the area of Chalons-en-Champagne, just a bit east of Paris. Specifically, some historians believe that Attila made camp at an old abandoned Gallic hillfort near what is now a town called La Cheppe. The evidence is very inconclusive, and there not being any archeological evidence found there, but its the leading theory as far as I understand.

If there's a Hun-German entity it's indeed the Turcilingi, Hyun Jin Kim also posuits that Odoacer's Turcilingi were in fact a group of Huns, deriving from the "Turk" ethnonym which was in use at the time

@drengr811

8 ай бұрын

It's more likely that they were Alan-Goth than Hun in terms of genetics.

@nenenindonu

8 ай бұрын

​@@drengr811Nah there are actual genetic reconstructions in that geography such as that of a Hunnic princess based in Bavaria and they largely match Eurasian Turkic ethnic groups like Lipka Tatars and Bashkirs

@drengr811

8 ай бұрын

@@nenenindonu Interesting. But be that as it may, the Indo-Europeans were Y-DNA tribes, their paternal lineage was their identity. Taking spouses from non-IE cultures was common practice for IE people. Also let's not forget that in that time sending women was a kind of indication of goodwill in a diplomatic agreement. So mtDNA can't indicate anything in this regard. Y-DNA can. The most common Y-DNA carried by the Huns were Q1a and its subclades. This Y-DNA is relatively low in Late Imperial Era Germany, let alone Europe. On the contrary, R1b&R1a are the most common. So IMO they were an Alan-Gothic tribe, they were in close proximity to the Huns and they exchanged spouses.

@nenenindonu

8 ай бұрын

@@drengr811 They were a superstrate afterall so it's more than reasonable that there's no genetic impact left similar to the former Avar and Bulgar ruled territories in Eastern Europe which are now genetically Paleo-Balkan & Slavic dominated as it was during their control

@user-cg2tw8pw7j

6 ай бұрын

​@@nenenindonuTherefore, they became extinct, or they tried to save their brothers in the Aurar Mountains, but their brothers killed them and ate their flesh.

They call them graves, we call them time capsuls

This might seem odd, but I’ve always been curious what kind of sports these folks would have played during the immediate breakdown of western Rome. Like as much as we tend to think of this time as just constant chaos and strife… People head lives to lives, crops to grow, and entertainment to enjoy… Just something I think about.

@usurparemagnus

8 ай бұрын

Well they still tried to do things the Roman way around the time, so they probably did some stuff in the gymnasium.

@LastBrigadier

8 ай бұрын

rape.

@malis9045

3 ай бұрын

The romans loved ballgames. They played something a bit similiar to rugby, drawing a line in a sand and trying to score by making a touchdown on the rival team's half of the field They also played smth like volleyball, but with a much heavier ball and funnily enough it had the same reputation as shuffleboard today, something mostly played by the elderly For entertainment, unlike the modern obsession with gladiators, if there was one thing romans loved above everything it was chariot racing There were different coulored teams which had local fanbases, ie the greens were popular in the eastern empire while the reds were a western favorite. These teams even had their own fanclubs who became hugely politically important later, even being able to depose and threaten emperors. Kind of an institution for expressing popular opinion. The Race stadium was thr place where the people could make their opinions on politics heard through chants and slogans("Depose this finance minister, declare war on these people, etc")

The lex thoringium (basically a law book for the thuringians under frankish rule) suggests that at least in part the thuringians were angles that didnt move to brittain but rather south. I have also seen some suggestions they might be of east germanic origin which would be cool too.

@chtabarddumultien6075

8 ай бұрын

How so ?

@theChaosKe

8 ай бұрын

@@chtabarddumultien6075 It mentions in name that the rex thuringi is the law of the angli and the varini (another tribe along the coast of germany). As for the east germanic possibility, they might have split off of the burgundy which they were supposed to be very close with. Other options suggested a split off from the vandals or lombards.

Wonderful maps.

A video about my home region. Great as always.

Thank you for the maps. They really make it more clear and informative. 👌

Awesome video. The “dark ages” of world history are so fascinating, like peering into a long-locked room

Excellent video as always. Also, just in case you need to say it’s name in future videos, the Elbe is pronounced with an “a” sound at the end and sounds like the “a” at the end of Francia or Honda.

@TheFallofRome

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for that. German is very much an ongoing process for me

@ZainAhmad-jl4vt

8 ай бұрын

don't think that's correct both E's are pronounced like standard german Es

@Kotl1ke

8 ай бұрын

i think it's best described as the "schwa" sound

@bombfog1

8 ай бұрын

@@ZainAhmad-jl4vt Yeah, the sound is intermediate between the a I’m talking about and what you are saying. I was just trying to give him a rough guide. In my German dialect it’s more like the a in Honda.

@stefanfranke5651

8 ай бұрын

I don't know your dialect but I was practically born and raised at the shores of the Elbe river, and the 'e' at the end is pretty much the same pronounciation like the 'E' at the beginning. Otherwise hearing what you described I would confuse it with the italian island of Elba. I don't know if there's a specific english pronounciation but every english-speakers I met in my home area called it aproximately by it's german name.

On the topic of the 5th century grave culture in northern France and Belgium, I wish there was still a way to see that old video that talked about that and about the Franks. It was old and maybe full of "bad history" but I think it was still useful

@TheFallofRome

8 ай бұрын

Yeah that video was unscripted, and all over the place. I’m in the process of writing a script for an updated version

Sounds like a based kingdom. German's very intense ambush style and physical might mixed with the horseback riding and archery knowledge of the Huns would be a deadly combo

I really enjoy this channel, especially videos about lost countries where we know some things, but not a whole lot.

Wow another great video ! Keep up the great content 👍

A terrific video, as usual! 🏹⚔🙌

what an utterly fantastic video as always, you are such an astonishingly high quality channel for your size and i hope you take pride in that. Could you maybe do a serious on the origins of all 6 german tribes?

You should to a video on the Wendish crusade and pagan holdouts in that area

Very very interesting. 🤔

My Great Grandfather once said that the Thuringians were brutal warriors

This video is great !

Thx for that story.. never learned it in school having been born and raised in what is today Thuringia/Germany (my ancestry is not from the region though - WW2 displaced my people from 500-800km further east and north/east to that area and myself having moved to the other side of the globe by now anyway, heh).

Thanks 👍

make a video of the carinthian principality please😊

0:34 I mean, we do know that most of these Kingdoms existed. We just don't know many details about them. Is bit better way I would put it.

Love your work brother, great video as usual

Sheds a different light on Germans being derogatorily called "the Hun" in 20th century Europe.

@flavivsaetivs5738

8 ай бұрын

That was because during the boxer Rebellion Wilhelm II called for his soldiers to "fall onto china like huns"

@FantadiRienzo

8 ай бұрын

Badam-psh. You are a funny guy. I laughed. No, I didn't.

Commenting for algorithm

good video

I might have some clues where to find Catalaunian plains battlefiled. Interested? This might yield a lot of finds if proven true about the entire era. I'd like to connect with people interested in the period of Roman imperial collapse.

@varalderfreyr8438

8 ай бұрын

That sounds quite interesting, I would like to write a book about the collapse one day. Also finding the burial place of Attila would be great

@voster77hh

8 ай бұрын

@@varalderfreyr8438 The burial place of Theoderic 1st would indicate the real battle site. I have narrowed down an area to search for it from multiple sources. Wouldn't have the time to publish on it. I would be fine with co-authoring on the last spot and just honorably mentioning me as initiating the initial search. Atrlias burial is somewhere on a river island on Dnister river if I remember correctly? Or was it San / Bug rivers? Hard to find or eventully.totally gone from river meandering. Unlike tto Theoderic 1st grave as battle spot you have acrive obfuscation of Attilas site from grave robbers. Almost no written records or place names to work with. Given there is almost no finds on Huns at all, any find and archeological evidence would be a massive feat. You could eventually obtain clues like seed DNA, soil, metal ore or plant material origins etc to geologically fingerprint Huns home turf. Get some linguistics, cultural clues and genetics to narrow down their culture associations. It makes sense to focus on the doable and do that Attila grave hunt based on better data fron Catalaunic plains finds. It is always great to have that follow up mystery as conclusion to end a book. You got to sell that dig, documentary film and book.project to sponsors. Maybe like these crazyTime Team digs? Totally relaxing to watch mystery TV. This would be a perfect match with Tony Robinson, as that late Roman battle is a total.mystery but defines Frankish Charlemagne history and Europe so much. Yet there is almost nothing in sources but brief text sources.

I think this state was a Ostrogothic client state (enemy of the Franks for that matter) ¿What was the relation this geopolitical entity had with the Baiuvari?

@KurtKind

8 ай бұрын

I read they found bajuvarian graves in munich pasing with enlarged skulls within. So there were cultural connections.

@diegoalbertoragotpadra9139

8 ай бұрын

@@KurtKind what did the Baiuvari do after the death of the Ostrogothic kingdom?

Another excellent vid.

@TheFallofRome

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Im from Holland and Ive got 1,5% central asian dna. I like to believe these peoples were my ancestors.

@user-cg2tw8pw7j

8 ай бұрын

I do not find you among the Alans, the Sarmatians, and these Persian Aryans

@mahakalabhairava9950

Ай бұрын

They probably were. Nothing weird about it. I think family members of me did a DNA test as well and have such DNA as well. And so I probably have it too.

They eventually became the Visigoths

Pure fantasy and exoticism. Being part of Hun coalition at Catalonian plains is not a distinguishing feature of the Thuringians as at least a dozen or more Germanic tribes were also there as part of Hun coalition

@docholiday7975

8 ай бұрын

Didn't pay much attention to the video did you? The part about the battle of the Catalonian Plain was that this was one of the earliest mentions of them as a people, with the other, Vegetius De Re Militari, being of uncertain date; Sidonius Apollinarius's account here gives a firm terminus ante quem to work with.

@mahakalabhairava9950

Ай бұрын

I don't understand the accusation of exoticism as you imply that the Hunnish influence was even bigger...

What can you do? Peope traded

Did they ever find archeological evidence for the wheel of pain, constructed in the region of Cimmeria?

@JanoTuotanto

8 ай бұрын

That was a bit earlier. The last Cheddar man did it after the oceans drank Atlantis

👍

Huns conquering Germany and it becomes a Hun-German state ? funny.

@whoisjoe5610

8 ай бұрын

So, what else would it be exactly?

Why did I find out about this empire from a doggerland map if it was destroyed in such a short period doesn’t make sense I think all these tribes were pre Roman as Rome was just taxing all the tribes in every Roman area when Rome fell those same pre Roman tribes gained their power again

Lol @ migration routes map. Rip to the unfortunate peasants born there

I thought the thuringians were goths.

@andrewr2468

8 ай бұрын

You’re thinking of the Thervingians. That was the tribe that fought Valens at Adrianople.

Btw : Franks = "friends", i just noticed that

@FantadiRienzo

8 ай бұрын

Frank means free

@JanoTuotanto

8 ай бұрын

Brothers, you know "Germanes"

@user-cg2tw8pw7j

8 ай бұрын

​@@FantadiRienzoDo you mean the Eastern franc? Yes

@12tanuha21

8 ай бұрын

@@user-cg2tw8pw7j the Eastern Francs from Franconia?

@user-cg2tw8pw7j

8 ай бұрын

@@12tanuha21 No, they were from the Frankish tribes, but a civil war broke out between two brothers. One brother migrated to the lands of northern France during the reign of the Roman Emperor Hadrian and said that my tribe would protect the borders of Gaul from the barbarian tribes.

HunHan, nowadays Korea

Are german hun?

Ha, no one else said it so I will, FIRST!!!!

Cool! I am fascinated in the idea of Hunnic-Germanic unity! It’s just very interesting!!!

@amadiohastruck4331

6 ай бұрын

Must be a Turk lol