Editing this comment in 2023 cause DAMN this video is blowing up again for some reason. I've wanted to remake this for awhile, but I guess I'll wait a while before I do - welcome new people!

@agu-man6065

4 жыл бұрын

Carthu's Dojo thank you for making this analysis. Since people tend to overlook Goku actions even my own self. Since making this morality video basically understand Goku character more since people even in dbz an anime community take away the context what he says.

@JordanWindhamBenford

4 жыл бұрын

This was the secular crap I've ever seen in my entire life. This is not how morality works.

@agu-man6065

4 жыл бұрын

@@JordanWindhamBenford can you make an arguement for. Yes you can disagree with the video I don't mind but, even as person who watches anime an look into different themes an philosophy. Since Morality principles concerning the distinction between what is morally good an what is morally wrong. Even in a fictional work like dragon ball, we can't ignore philosophy that has a major factor in the character of Son Goku. His Morality as fighter an martial artist during his time as kid an to his current adulthood. Shows progression threw his fights an show in the fights. Carrthu was going threw the misconception that people take out of context.

@JordanWindhamBenford

4 жыл бұрын

@@agu-man6065 Taking note that Goku and his world is *supposed* to be inspired by the Buddhist worldview makes a lot of the video pointless in and of itself. Acknowledging that we understand that the entire point of Goku is to obtain enlightenment through abandoning his attachments which falls apart due to this being a profitable franchise that certain parties wanna see go on forever. Less important to you but more important to me is the fact that Goku is not moral because Goku has been a borderline god since he first defeated Piccolo which changes the game considerably. The narrator did not take the fact that Goku being the most powerful person in the show makes him more or less beholden to certain criteria of morality than most.

@agu-man6065

4 жыл бұрын

@@JordanWindhamBenford well true since "Modern Dragon Ball" tried making Goku an keeping implying he is cocky an over confident. Which isn't Goku character yes they made him a bit more of a dumbass in tournament of power an that the fact he is bit way to overpowered an doesn't really need to be in the story of dragon ball at this point.

Can we talk about the fact that Goku's childhood is : - being an orphan - killing his own step grandfather - having no education - having no role model - being left alone to survive in the wild - being forced to fight With such background and seeing what he is now, I think Goku is more than a good man.

@ojpickle5923

4 жыл бұрын

Other than killing his step father the things listed pretty much all low class sayains go threw. At least the low class ones that get sent away as babies to destroy the world. Goku deffently turned out better than the other sayains but it is possible that sayains as a warrior race have a mental state strong enough to cope with harsh things like that

@milesandrews6711

3 жыл бұрын

@@ojpickle5923 saiyans do kind of have a strong mental state, but also not really as we see saiyans like tarble who can't really bring themselves to kill and can't handle the whole taking over planets thing, so it must be something some of them adapt to after a while, which saiyans can do very easily as their adaptation skills are top notch But yeah gokus backstory is probably one of the roughest things, but it's not really dwelled on because dragon ball was meant to be cheery

@retrogamer3775

3 жыл бұрын

@@milesandrews6711 Gohana backstory is also tough

@prometheusmodelow8322

3 жыл бұрын

@@ojpickle5923 Most Saiyans are murderous bastards who don't care about anything, so i guess Goku is definetly exceptional in that regard.

@razkable

3 жыл бұрын

hes also an alien with blood in his that says to fight...lets not forget that..and he did learn some education from roshi but its basic like 5th grade stuff nothing major

“Goku has no characterization” “Goku isn’t a deep character” “Goku is a 2 dimensional character” Give the man credit already he’s a very good MC.

@nnightkingj

4 жыл бұрын

Joe James everybody says that didn’t watch og dragonball or only super

@joejames1794

4 жыл бұрын

nnightkingj people think of DBZ way too surface level.

@guess6635

4 жыл бұрын

@@joejames1794 because they themselves are of very surface people. Fighting punches and explosives is what they think of Dragonball not knowing it caring about the actually Adventure and Journey that make the Original so successful. They need litterally painting on the wall like Vegeta for them to see how Deep the character while subtle ones such as Goku goes right over their heads.

@joejames1794

4 жыл бұрын

guess 66 FUCKING THANK YOU they need things like Piccolo and Vegeta’s transformations to see how a characterization is done.

@julieanneormerod3629

4 жыл бұрын

I watched og dragon ball

DBZ Goku was a good role model. He teaches to keep pushing themselves to their best, to turn the other check when others do wrong to you and others, and to stay strong and be brave in the face of impossible odds

@robotmafia000

4 жыл бұрын

And he shows that everyone (well most) deserves a second chance 👍

@utoresa5193

4 жыл бұрын

@@robotmafia000 Frieza definitely didn't.He is also stupidly dangerous,he gains strength faster than(excluding brolly who became over 50 times stronger in a few minutes) and already is strong,survived brolly for an hour,at this point goku probably needs the kaioken

@KameronDAaron

4 жыл бұрын

but as a kid, to put it simply, he was a straight MURDERER!!

@bananashotgun2342

4 жыл бұрын

@@KameronDAaron Pretty sure it was done out of self-defence.

@KameronDAaron

4 жыл бұрын

@@bananashotgun2342 not really. He WENT AFTER Tambournie when he killed Krillin and WENT AFTER the Red Ribbon Army.

Also Goku at the beginning of z, was disgusted after discovering that he belongs from a race who slaughtered civilizations and destroyed planets later in the frieza saga after vegeta's death he accepts himself as a saiyan warrior and fights frieza to avenge his race

@lightyoshiman

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I liked it better when he continues to reject his Saiyan lineage

@thelvadam90

Жыл бұрын

@@lightyoshiman same.

@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336

Жыл бұрын

@@lightyoshiman That would probably be contradictory as his Saiyan forms.

@KyleEvra

Жыл бұрын

I love how he accepted what he is. He promises to never be like those ruthless heartless Saiyans of his race.

@nicksharna

Жыл бұрын

@@lightyoshiman same

Even though they changed his face slightly after he "killed" Frieza, I'm pretty sure we could all tell he was questioning his decision and regretful that Frieza couldn't be saved. But in my head, I also think he felt anger, too. Even after Trunks sliced Frieza up, Goku told him, "I was only fooling myself, thinking he might change."

@dinogt8477

3 жыл бұрын

You can even look at gokus hand it was shaking

@WadeGoku

Жыл бұрын

@@dinogt8477 shaking with power.

@dinogt8477

Жыл бұрын

@@WadeGoku shut your

@GeteMachine

Жыл бұрын

Thats not what the scene was about. He never said he wanted to change Freeza. He was disappointed that Freeza wouldn't accept being spared. Because he didnt have the same humility that he does, like when he was broken by Vegeta, Goku was confident he'd just train harder. Freeza is the opposite. Freeza hates losing like a child.

@StevenJones851

Жыл бұрын

@@GeteMachine that's true absolutely

I honestly this is by farrrrr the greatest Goku character breakdown ever recorded. And quite possibly the best scripted Dragon Ball video to date.

@razkable

3 жыл бұрын

i love how people claim goku is bad cause he puts people in danger...did they forget all the times he saved the day and helped?..are you guys brain damaged?

@Silent.killer_007

3 жыл бұрын

@@razkable they r haters bruh most of them thinks- dbz: goku is a side character dbs: goku is the villian lol wtf

@JuanFlores-gs7uu

2 жыл бұрын

Personally, I still think it's Seththeprogrammer's "strength of Son Goku" video, but this was incredible too

@Dualities

Жыл бұрын

whatever u say fake promo account. even hearting your own comment. thats lame bro

@Ajay-pj2hv

Жыл бұрын

I would say Seth the programmer did more detailed breakdown But this is definitely second best

I can show this video to people who think Goku has no character development.

@utoresa5193

4 жыл бұрын

A proper development only requires the series itself.

@nlc2566

4 жыл бұрын

Uto Resa 519 but the problem is super, people always talkes about dbs goku and it is the last version of him so I get that but they messed his character up so bad

@FalangeRevolutionary986

2 жыл бұрын

@@nlc2566 Most if it was filler.

The way Goku looks down after blasting Frieza is so well done. You say he's sad, but he's not merely sad. He's also baffled and disgusted. Even then he can hardly believe someone so twisted exists.

I love the scene between Goku and half of Frieza so much. Both of them are given perfectly good opportunities to betray their beliefs, betray who they are at their core, and neither one take it, it perfectly sets up their dynamic for later on in the series.

@Shapes_Quality_Control

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely spot on. It’s why for years I’ve argued that Vegeta is not Goku’s true rival. Frieza is. Besides their near constant improvements in strength and technique they are stubbornly ridged and trading blows with each other on a fundamental ideological level. Goku and Frieza actually manipulate each other by exploiting weaknesses in personality and philosophy in one another. They understand each other much better then Vegeta understood either of them.

@kleatise52

Жыл бұрын

@@Shapes_Quality_Control frieza literally fights him once and leaves the show until dragon ball super 20 years later. No he’s not gokus rival.

@Shapes_Quality_Control

Жыл бұрын

@@kleatise52 So? Vegeta’s rivalry only goes one way. Goku doesn’t even take him seriously. He’s always looking for other, stronger opponents. He’s only seen Vegeta as a challenge a grand total of once.

@R1ck_Ryder

Жыл бұрын

@@kleatise52 lmao yeah bro I can’t stand super fans and their dumbass head canon 😂

@kleatise52

Жыл бұрын

@@Shapes_Quality_Control okay and frieza was never even written back into the story back until dragon ball super so have your little new generation opinion lol the show is dog water

“Goku doesn’t have character development.” They say.

@ubermaster134

4 жыл бұрын

Mostly people talk about Super

@julieanneormerod3629

4 жыл бұрын

I watched og dragon ball

@jeweerly2319

4 жыл бұрын

@@julieanneormerod3629 k

@mr.boomguy

4 жыл бұрын

Everyone says his a flat character. Anime wise, not manga...

@bobchipman7737

3 жыл бұрын

Well he doesnt to b honest the fans have good analysis but its just that a projection...his still flat

You know, I thought this was just gonna be a throw away episode but it really opened my eyes. I’ve grown up watching the anime and from everyone who’s talked about Goku, I’ve never been exposed to this Goku. The manga Goku. THE GOKU TORIYAMA was trying to show us. Thanks for making this video Carthu. You’ve really shown me that Goku’s morality is far greater than what everyone and even I would’ve thought. Keep up the videos man.

@revisit8480

Жыл бұрын

>Kill your oppressed brother >Spare the dude who oppressed your brother >Be celebrated as a hero, when the bad guys father, the bad guy and his brother show up on your planet, threatening countless lives. Goku is insane. - All "mercy" moments on big baddies were just so, that the show could end - nothing more. Popular demand asked for more content, and what we got was retcon after retcon. Goku maimed and killed plenty of people, people far weaker than himself. If you justify Goku's actions, and you think he's a good guy, then Freezer is the savior of the universe. No, the thing about Freezer isn't hyperbole . He's literally NATO. Making peace in the universe just by showing up on planets and threatening violence - and if that's bad... that's what Goku does: "Keep on getting stronger Piccolo, so I can get strong too!" - he wants to beat the living daylights out of him again, if he shows up to take revenge. Freezer, by comparison, shows absolute restraint.

@the1stassassin422

Жыл бұрын

​​@@revisit8480 Man just tried to paint fucking Space Hitler of all people in the right light

@JoacoG11

8 ай бұрын

​@@revisit8480dude Freezer goes around slaving and blowing up planets 💀

Dragon Ball Super is mischaracterzing Goku to a offensive degree. There are many layers to his behavior yet they continue do so wrong by him.

@jongee7034

4 жыл бұрын

Sebastian Rodriguez agreed and because it’s cannon. Goku essential has become an idiot. This was never dbz goku.

@lanesmith1465

4 жыл бұрын

@@jongee7034 No, it's manga Goku.

@devantewinston4865

4 жыл бұрын

@@lanesmith1465 thank you fam funimation tricked alot of people

@jongee7034

4 жыл бұрын

Dbz goku had far more rational and a serious when he had to be demeanor about him. He was more self aware then dbs goku.

@charlietownsend2826

4 жыл бұрын

Soma Life | No they didn’t. I see this argument brought up time and time again. People go for "the English dub changed Goku this is japanese Goku" and when that gets debunked they go for "oh well Toei changed Goku in Z this is Toriyama’s Goku". I’m not saying you’re being dishonest or anything mind you. It’s just not the English dub or Toei’s filler content or movies and OAVs. It’s Super that dumbed down Goku’s character by taking a few of his superficial characteristics, dialing them to eleven and then making that his actual character.

This is by far the best video you’ve ever made

@derpboiyctvtvt705

3 жыл бұрын

Then this is the first video you every watched from him

@thephantazm5139

3 жыл бұрын

@@derpboiyctvtvt705 nah it is i actually resubbed becuz of this video

@jonathanisrael1707

3 жыл бұрын

@@derpboiyctvtvt705 fuck you Goku hater

@rasheedidris3231

3 жыл бұрын

Not by far but ye

the fact that such an old character is always being discussed, shows that he is, in fact, a very well written one

I absolutely love the fact that Goku was disappointed that he couldn't try to redeem Freeza, like he did with Vegeta and Piccolo. Also what's the name of the music you used in the background?

@Shapes_Quality_Control

Жыл бұрын

It’s the Bardock theme in Dragon Ball Super: Broly. It’s extremely well composed.

@GeteMachine

Жыл бұрын

He didnt say he wanted to redeem Freeza, he just didnt care after he disgraced him, which was what his plan was. It was after Vegeta told him everything he adopted that pride for him. Then when Freeza was cut in half he said Freeza was pathetic now and not worth it. He wanted Freeza to walk away from it because he already reduced him to nothing. Freeza didnt, was just angry from ego and embarassment. It was not about redeeming him or with Vegeta. He respected Vegeta for teaching him about the Saiyans and admired his strength that nearly killed him.

@elgusaniiiodeljuego6823

Жыл бұрын

When did he say anything about redeeming Freezer? 🤔 Being that the case, the Goku is a systematic talk-no-jutsu user, rather that 'it just happening'

@Nameless82284

9 ай бұрын

Not redeemed just for him to give up his evil ways because he never wants to see him again.

I've been pretty mixed with Goku as a character, and that's mainly because of Super, but after watching this, I've honestly started liking Goku now. Sure he has his flaws that are presumably going to be fixed in the future, but in the end, I love Goku no matter what.

@mohaumoseki3582

3 жыл бұрын

Me too.

@dangerousdays2052

Жыл бұрын

What's wrong with a character having flaws? Are you perfect? No. So shut up.

On a side note, I absolutely love the music you had playing in this video it sets the mood perfectly. I totally love this video Carthu you totally outdid yourself bro! My favorite from you so far and that’s saying a lot, I love all your vids!

@astraldirectrix

4 жыл бұрын

...You know it's "Bardock Falls" from the DBS: Broly soundtrack, right?

@renegadetrooper7224

4 жыл бұрын

Amane Mizuhashi oh, no I didn’t thanks so much.

Goku didnt kill piccolo ONLY because he wouldve lost the tournament. Lemme tell you guys this. Goku was a straight savage in dragon ball. He killed alot of people. He slautered everyone at the red ribon base and he laughed while doing it. Completely gleeful. I tell you, as someone starting with dragonball z I was shook to see how brutal goku was and how many times he did it with a smile. And they say he didnt have a character arc..

@jkf6676

2 жыл бұрын

Dude goku knew kami would have died along with picolo so that's the reason he didn't killed picolo.

@leothelion19

9 ай бұрын

I think it’s android 8, he taught Goku to hold back and not kill someone just because they’re evil, to show mercy, after that you gradually start to see him become more merciful (there’s exceptions like king piccolo) but as he goes on you see him employ this lesson that 8 taught him

@iamnotsomeonehidinginyourc7875

5 ай бұрын

I know I’m kinda late, but it’s probably because as a child, Goku didn’t actually know what death really meant. In Path to Power, when Eighter died, that was when Kid Goku realized what death really means, and I think that it’s a big turn in Goku’s life, even if it isn’t really canon I believe.

next what if: what if Carthu ran out of "What if" 's?

@dragoexe3155

4 жыл бұрын

How would this effect his channel on youtube ball z

@DoubleBoost23

4 жыл бұрын

Even better: What if Carthu was a Saiyan?

@littlecr7265

4 жыл бұрын

@@DoubleBoost23 Carthu's Dojo Posted: " GoinG sUPEr sAIyAN IRL nO LiE"

@SSJWAnimation

4 жыл бұрын

Even better what if carthu did what ifs reversed

@UbaAmaze

4 жыл бұрын

Its just a black screen for 15 minutes

Not wanting to spare Goku black and zamasu, could do something with the fact that they killed Chichi and Goten 😁. I fully believe that Goku loves his family more than anything, because Goku tryed to strike Black while he was on the ground! something Goku's never done, which tells me that's the most enraged has ever been. Even he can't forgive that 😡

Any time the shot of Goku finishing off Frieza is remade in an animation or video game, I always check if they get his expression right. Sadly, most end up giving him an angry look rather than the one of sadness. One of the few times they get it right was in FighterZ which was so great to see.

@Theragtagna

Жыл бұрын

And DB Legends. In LF Namek Goku's legendary finish, he also has a sad look.

@synx1018

11 ай бұрын

@@TheragtagnaAlso in DBZ:Kakarot

@l33tcorps80

9 ай бұрын

And Dokkan battle They did justice

Is it not Goku's kind and merciful heart coupled with his drive to fight and train from his saiyan heritage that keeps him miles ahead of Vegeta? A man who is cold and calculating, a true saiyan culturally but that is his hindrance.

@williamharmon4039

4 жыл бұрын

I thought it was the brain damage.

@Vapor817

4 жыл бұрын

it's his workout routine. vegeta constantly tortures his body until he can't move anymore while goku understands the importance of rest. this laid back attitude is how he got ultra instinct before vegeta. ssj3 was only possible because goku could train an immortal body in the afterlife that allowed him to push his body in ways that would kill his regular body many times over

@RuiLuz

4 жыл бұрын

@@Vapor817 one thing you forget, Goku unlike Vegeta had a lot of masters, he had formal training in martial arts unlike Vegeta, also, the part of his training was not only physical but also spiritual, he is also ahead of Vegeta because of that.

@Vapor817

4 жыл бұрын

@@RuiLuz yeah that too, i still wonder why vegeta or anyone else never bothered to learn kaioken

@tranquilk5912

4 жыл бұрын

@@Vapor817 well so far in the manga hopefully things on vegeta's side is starting to change. Also for others I know super is pretty much whack and I don't take much from it either, but either in the Anime or fukatsu no f saga Whis said to vegeta that he needed to be more relaxed as thee secret to surpassing goku. For that brief time against frieza he did that and was more knowledgeable in the Ssj blue form surpassing Goku for that period of time. Vegeta effortlessly dealt with frieza in that battle until it got to the end. Some may say he got a little cocky or took too long in finishing the fight but goku struggled against frieza in that fight because he was too laid back and not serious enough.

Goku became more merciful as the tone of the series changed. Early DB had a lot of comical gag elements so the deaths were more looney tune esc. It started to change during the king piccolo arc and from there it became more serious.

While it's true that Goku's choices haven't always been completely selfish, I do think that selfishness is often a factor in his mercy. I genuinely believe that he views life as precious and wants to do the right thing without killing unnecessarily, but I also believe that despite this he does still have a selfish desire to fight strong guys, and spares his enemies whenever he can get away with it in part because of this. I think in Goku's ideal world, fights would still happen, but with no bad blood between fighters. Every fight would be a peaceful sparring match, and people would grow stronger through friendly rivalries rather than our of necessity. This is largely because of Goku's Saiyan heritage. Saiyans are a warrior race by blood and nature. Their brains are hard wired to seek violence and power. Goku's simply evolved his mind and moral compass to the point where he's able to hold such desires without taking them too far when it isn't needed. He does view life as precious, but the chance to fight someone again is also something that's precious to him. Also important to note is that Goku is able to prove that he isn't an anomaly by teaching his ideology to Vegeta, and in time it ultimately ends up working. Goku and Vegeta meet as fundamental opposites in philosophy, but by the end of Z they have become true peers. Vegeta by then has long abandoned his old mindset, having learned to view life as precious as Goku does and accepting that one can truly surpass their limits through hard work and training. The flawed philosophy of the Saiyans was ultimately largely indoctrination and propaganda, and although they are hard wired to seek violence and power, they are still very capable of mercy. I'd say a little bit of Vegeta's mindset rubbed off on Goku too, however. While Goku would prefer not to kill when he doesn't have to, he no longer holds back when someone proves unredeemable. This is a trend that carries over to Gohan in Super, as he is slowly learning that while a life of peace is nice, he still needs to be strong to be able to protect those he cares about when the time comes to it.

@StevenJones851

Жыл бұрын

Interesting Comment nice one

This was a really good video, Great job

Man Goku just can't get a break, All of those technics, the teleportation, the Kaioken, and others techniques if only those were shared to the other Z fighters then maybe all the responsibility wouldn't be jammed on his shoulders but I don't blame the Z fighters, I blame the writting

this is such a good explanation it really shows how dbz is not about all powerups and hype and nostalgia rather a pioneer of all shounen and a great storytelling and character development

Really good video that explains gokus growth for his child like world veiw into the man he is now although he can be selfish at heart he is reasonable

@albangarepresentAR

4 жыл бұрын

Well the thing is Goku killed SOOO MANNY people like when it came to getting the job done Goku would straight up kill his enemies like he destroyed the red ribbon army he killed Tambourine and just killed king piccolo without even flinching

@thewatchersdidnothingwrong7702

3 жыл бұрын

@@albangarepresentAR self defense, and he didn't know the value of life when he killed them, he learned later on

I think you should’ve mentioned Goku catching Red Ribbon bodies as a kid

@virtues487

4 жыл бұрын

A whole army was silenced by kid goku. He had no chill until android 8 taught him mercy

@jiraffe9600

4 жыл бұрын

virtues that was after Android 8. He didn't learn mercy until kami.

Searched for "Goku and Frankfurt Cases," found this. Not disappointed.

Finally, a video that officially puts to rest and debunks the selfish goku theory.

You could also argue his view on killing changes because as he gets older he figures there will not be many more people who could challenge him, for instance after he lost to jakie chun he thought there would always be someone stronger and thats why he shamelessly killed the entire Red Ribbon Army and many other because he thought there would always be more people out there who he could fight. After his fight woth piccolo goku then thought that he was the strongest in the world and thats when he stopped wanting to kill because he might be killing the only person who could challenge him the evidence being the sayains, buu, etc. He even stated in ROF that its a shame he has to kill frieza because he would have made a perfect training partner. Just proving that goku only hesitates to kill because he knows how few people can entertain him

@sonnywoods6846

4 жыл бұрын

I would say his view on Killing changed because of Kami! Turned him into a bitch! (Just in case I am joking)

@matti.8465

4 жыл бұрын

What about Beerus and Whis? Or the gap between Goku and them is too wide for them to be entertaining and helpful to his training (besides being teachers)?

@johnx140

4 жыл бұрын

thats kinda fucked up actually

@gaspenpayne6755

3 жыл бұрын

You know that last bit is such a villain thing to do. Goku's a villain confirmed 😂

@flowclown9179

2 жыл бұрын

Goku is really turning into saitama when he start kill the opponent he fight

This is way better than totally not Marks analysis videos

@agu-man6065

4 жыл бұрын

Totally no mark is good, but that Goku video on a static character about Goku was messy. Since I don't hate or Goku many people get this misinterpretation of the character. Also Super ruined Goku for me an others since how he was treated an used.

Bringing to light how Goku truly felt about when he defeated Frieza gave me a new view on Goku i was so confused why Goku was sad when he does his Dramatic finish on Frieza this makes more sense. It's a shame Super retcon him because i was also confused why give a guy who caused so much suffering and basically spit in his face when u gave him mercy a third chance Dragon Ball Super Broly pretty much shown Frieza is beyond help.

This was an interesting breakdown of Goku! You really cleared up my misconceptions about the subject at hand!

@wessidioussmoke5773

4 жыл бұрын

This is a shit video and a wrong analogy of Goku. Funny how people twist and turn hero’s to villains and villains to hero.

@chrono2208

4 жыл бұрын

@@wessidioussmoke5773 if you don't have nothing good to say , just shut the Fuck up .

@blackrasengan2430

4 жыл бұрын

Wessidious Smoke you really don’t know know what you’re talking about, would you care to explain further?

Fantastic video. Really describes Goku's morality in a way that, to me at least, sounds legitimate and makes sense when taking all aspects of every Arc of this franchise into consideration. You've earned yourself a like my good sir!

Thats awesome. So Goku considers villains redeemable, and refuses to kill them unless truly necessary. He probably felt that if even piccolo and vegeta can become good, maybe the other enemies could too. I mean, look at fat Buu, and reincarnated buu too. I think Goku's morality actually does better for him, as he gains strength off of friends, rivals, and encounters.

Bro never disappoints

What I find fascinating about these discussions is how no one in the west brings up Buddhism as the main theme of Goku’s personality. If you’re Chinese or Japanese, you’d know that Son Goku 孫悟空 (grandchild, enlighten, sky [air, empty]) is a clear reference to Buddhism and 西遊記Journey to the West, which is what DB started off as a Kung-Fu parody of, is a children’s story used to teach kids Buddhist lessons. Mercy and compassion are core tenets of Buddhism, and the first arch of DB clearly illustrates that making friends out of your foes instead of resisting them gets you closer to your goals. Obviously, not all of DB is strictly about these ideas, but these are foundational to the story, and I almost never hear anyone talk about it.

I think the part of Goku telling Bulma he didnt want to go after Dr. Gero for not doing anything at the time they were told about him but wanted to train for it instead is a very interesting moment and one that really should show Goku's morality. Goku isnt a guy who plans for threats. Thats why he isnt a superhero. Superman would have just immediately went to Gero and took him out if he was told what he was planning to do because of the risk. The forward thinking. Goku wouldn't do that. He reacts to things as they happen. Goku would never attack someone at a disadvantage or if they arent doing anything wrong in the moment, which is naive but also very logical. Its also why he's allowed to make mistakes and underestimate his enemies, which the changes to their situation is how he determines pushing himself. Its why in the moment he was fine giving Cell a Senzu, because in the moment Cell agreed they were just having a sporting fight. Cell wanted a challenge, and Goku knew Gohan is the challenge Cell had to test. In that moment Piccolo was the one acting more like a Superhero then, because he blamed Goku for seeing Gohan get hurt, but Goku didnt believe he was at a disadvantage or at his own limit yet. It was only from Piccolo Goku doubted himself and almost broke his own beliefs.

After watching this, i was reminded why i loved Goku so much. I know funimation kind of stretched the whole "superman" aspect with Goku, but those aspects had to come from somewhere. when you talked about how Goku wanted to give the next generation a chance to grow and learn how to handle the next threat, i was brought back to when i heard Goku talk about how he could have killed Fat Buu in SS3 but wanted the next generation to solve the problem and not depend on him or anyone else since as you said his time was limited. It's amazing how Goku's morality seems to be forgotten even among Toei's staff. Goku's portrayal has become a flanderized version of what he was during DB and even Z. I also think this is sort of a fault also on Toriyama as, while he does have some involvement with Super and with Toyotaro only HE knows how to write Goku, Toyotaro can guess all he wants and try to emulate how he was but given that he wrote Goku talking down about how Gohan was more interested in his job than with helping to fight in the universe 6 tournament it kinda shows how little they understood how to work in Goku's morality since Goku told Gohan to go ahead and pursue his own dreams before he was killed by Cell. Case in point, both Battle of Gods and DBS: Broly were written by Toriyama so from the way Goku acts to how he talks is how Toriyama envisioned him to be.

@Temujin18S

4 жыл бұрын

Toriyama already confirmed he didn't like direction in Z. So he regressed to mimic his Dragonball counterpart. It was a deliberate choice.

@mohaumoseki3582

3 жыл бұрын

@@Temujin18S BS he wrote Goku in super to be so dumb and didn't like dbz goku because of that and the creator of dragon ball just agree to that.

@Temujin18S

3 жыл бұрын

@@mohaumoseki3582 I'm not defending the direction, I'm just pointing out that Toriyama choice was deliberate. I agree the change is stupid and regresses him as a character even with family, environment and world changing around Goku, makes new and exaggerated characterization in Super nonsensical just further undermines the show as whole.

@mohaumoseki3582

3 жыл бұрын

@@Temujin18S yeah toriyama make a bad decision to change goku's character.

@mohaumoseki3582

3 жыл бұрын

@@ifinditkindafunnyifinditki5352 Agreed.

Thank you for this video, Goku is very misunderstood. Most see him as selfish and only gives mercy because he wants to fight the villain again. While part of that is true, it’s not the whole truth. Goku has a moral compass and does believe doing good and protecting others and protecting his planet. He gives mercy in hopes they’ll change into good guys.

Very well thought and organized. DB is known less for its plot, to the point where that potential begins to be overlooked.

Eighter Taunt Goku To Show Mercy And The Rest Was History

@Schizo_Ty

3 жыл бұрын

Goes on a killing spree in the RRA base afterwards

The music is so good it makes this video even better

Interesting thing is, going into Super, Goku's unerring, unflappable determination to avoid killing where he can seems to have though not redeemed at least reached Freeza, near the end of the Tournament of Power there's a distinct change in his attitude towards Goku and finally in the Broly movie he's not only avoiding direct confrontations but helps contain Broly for his own safety.

13:10 ,I like Goku in the Super Broly movie. Kinda shows how he's able to read one's actions now.

This is a beautiful video very well done! Thanks so much for making this man :)

Arguably the best video you have ever made

OMFG finally!! Someone explained goku well And not call him a selfish goofy idiot Great video! 👍

This is something I espoused a long time ago. Goku, believes in change, growth and self betterment. Even as far back as Dragon Ball he was showing mercy to people like Yamcha and Tien. Characters that started out as enemies but became staunch allies and friends. Hell he even let Gero survive! Goku's only "failures" were Raditz and Frieza...but by the end of Super even FRIEZA is showing signs of change, particularly in the Broly movie. By now he knows that Goku and Vegeta BOTH surpass him and thanks to seeing Gogeta he KNOWS beyond a doubt that not only is he not the alpha dog of the universe, but he never will be because even if he can surpass Goku and Vegeta individually he has absolutely no answer to Gogeta or Vegeto. Frieza was willing to fight BESIDE Goku...something he never would have done in the past. Namek Frieza would rather have died to end them both, the universe be damned. Piccolo took TIME to come around, Vegeta took an entire series to change his ways. Frieza may not be redeemed YET...but I no longer think he's irredeemable.

@jrex7486

4 жыл бұрын

I’ve never thought he was irredeemable. Anyone can change if they make the choice to. I don’t think he will though. He might come to respect Goku but I don’t think they will ever become anything more than acquaintances. He’s supposed to be the antithesis to his character from a narrative standpoint.

@Shapes_Quality_Control

Жыл бұрын

Frieza is changing but in accordance with his own philosophical outlook. It’s a battle of worldview between Goku and Frieza and both are manipulating each other. This is not to be taken as positive change. It’s a relationship of mutual exploitation in the universe survival arc.

@IIIISai

Жыл бұрын

black freiza says otherwise

Wow this really opened my eyes, thanks Carthu, this was a great video, and a great way to look at Goku's character as a whole

6:29 So, that’s why it’s like that in Fighterz!

The last minute of your video... Just wow! Incredible breakdown. 😧🤗🤗

Kudos i really enjoyed watching this.

That was awesome good job loved the video

I just wanted you to know You brought me a great insight on gokus character Especially with the frieza situation when he was trembling his hands in the manga vs anime when he just killed him. I had no idea it was like that until this video so. Thank you. ❤

What gets me the most is that people think Everyone after Piccolo are these "absolute evil" beings... when Piccolo is literally the evil from Kami.. Like.. he 's the embodiment of evil in every capacity.

That was an absolutely awesome and thought provoking look at an often oversimplified character. Thank you!

Man I loved this video! Suscribed!

8:57 Thank You! Ik people bring this moment up when people discuss how bad of a father Goku is but when you actually think about it this makes sense. Goku saw just a fraction of Gohan's power in the hyperbolic time chamber and after seeing that he knew his son's potential. He proves his beliefs in his son by throwing Cell the senzu cause no decent human being would throw someone they love as much as there kid out in a situation where they may die. He knew Gohan would win and he even said it himself that if there were any other way to beat Cell without needing to throw in Gohan he would've. He probably even considered the hyperbolic time chamber for himself but believed that even if he went back in there that he was soon going to hit a wall that he knew he couldn't surpass while his son can. True he didn't consider Gohan's perspective and that he wasn't really a fighter like his dad along with Cells own self destruction.

@guess6635

4 жыл бұрын

So very true but this whole revelation that Gohan didn't like to fight.... come on now up to this point Gohan showed back into the right with Vegeta to save Goku and Fight Vegeta. Demanded he went to am alien Planet to find their Dragonballs, willingly trained for 3 years with Goku and Piccolo to fight the Androids and clearly in the time chsmbrt showed signs that he wanted to get stronger and Fight Cell... Oh and Goku heard how his son from the Original timeline trained for 13 years and still was killed by the Androids... Any person watching would think "Hey this kid likes to fight" so I don't know how Goku is seen as a bad dad in all of this when the whole point of Gohan's character up to that point was to break away from the shackles of Education and allow him to choose one or thr other hence why his training in the 1st 6 months in the wilderness allowed him to a different side to choose than scholar and during the series up until Cell he clearly sided more with the Fighting siding than the Studying side.

@ancientking224

4 жыл бұрын

@@guess6635 Agreed, after all it's nearly impossible for you to be doing something for a long time and not enjoying it to some level of degree. You do have a good point there looking at it you would believe Gohan likes fighting and shown during his battle with Cell, Dabura, and Super Buu you do see him smiling and actually enjoying himself.

@CrystalMooGamingChannel

2 жыл бұрын

He also re-check Cell true power to confirm his thought with Master Korin. And when Korin said the Cell is slightly stronger than him.. he is very glad (with relief) that his son will certainly beat Cell (even with a Sensu). He is the only one that belief on his son's potential, not even Piccolo and Krillin belief this.

This was amazing your best video yet!

Goku is honestly the greatest anime character since he has every reason to kill but still chooses to only do it if killing the last resort like with Frieza and Buu but even then he believed in redemption for Buu even after killing him

It funny Goku sacrifices himself to stop Raditz from killing Gohan, but for some reason that counts as Goku being a bad father abandoning his son for a year with Piccolo. Gohan: you Abandon me Dad for a whole year with Piccolo, Piccolo is my real father. Goku: I'm Sorry I had to sacrifice myself to save you from my Evil Brother who wanted to kill you. Gohan: ....oh

@bakedcrystal915

4 жыл бұрын

And then he forces his son to fight cell, and then leaves son for years when he could’ve been revived lol

@devantewinston4865

4 жыл бұрын

@@bakedcrystal915 i mean he had faith in his son who in the ROSAT showed the power capable of beating cell he just misread that gohan wasn't a fighter really but that is also understandable because gohan was always around so you would think he enjoyed it just as much as his father

@ripper3052

4 жыл бұрын

@@bakedcrystal915 "forces" Do you realize they both trained for something in RoSaT? Wanting to show results of training is forcing? He didn't came back coz he was attracting evil. As simple as that.

@bakedcrystal915

4 жыл бұрын

Ripper 30 it was a joke, simple as that

This video was so good. Great job bro.

Great video as always, well studied too.

Very great video!

@CarthusDojo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks pal! 😊

Bro u make the best DBZ videos 💪🏿

This is a very well thought video I love the way you spoke your mind in this video I now have more to think about

Very nicely done

I get so annoyed when people have the balls to say Goku doesn’t have developed or an arc.

Laughingstock & geekdom 101 should see this lol

@kasimirjuslenius6273

3 жыл бұрын

Qaaman and MasakoX as well.

@alcatrazvongola

3 жыл бұрын

Totally Not Mark of all people needs to see this. He keeps parroting about Goku being a flat character.

@BlackAF1RoundtableCEO

3 жыл бұрын

@@kasimirjuslenius6273Why MasakoX??

@thesmartonesback2650

3 жыл бұрын

@@alcatrazvongola he doesn't say he is a flat character he says he has the flat character arc. A character who changes the world around him.

@Schizo_Ty

3 жыл бұрын

@@thesmartonesback2650 still wrong

This was a good Goku video man

Great conclusion!! Love this video.

Of course, Goku is no Superman and likes to fight but I think people reduce him to this character trait. He is more nuanced when people realise.

@silverwolf9001

9 ай бұрын

I do agree. I think Toriyama was pissed about anime Goku being too similar to Superman. Goku isn't a perfect hero. He's actually supposed to be an innocent challenger who fights villains primarily because HE likes to, but not without caring about the welfare of his friends and loved ones. (Major trigger warning to the Goku haters)

I appreciate works like this… Works that can really open one’s eyes to the character of Goku… Admittedly one that I myself became jaded to… But… hearing from folks like you who know what’s really up… It really helps to understand that Goku is in fact a way more complex character than I or a lot of folks give him credit for…

this actually makes me like his character a lot more with it now looked more in depth with the manga now.

This video video is so good i rewatched it.

This should be watched by everyone, even if they aren't a dragon ball fan. Just so they can understand goku because he has too many haters even within the fandom. And maybe with this they'll understand that goku is not a bad father.

@Santzu_

Жыл бұрын

This video has quite a bit misinformation and negates alot of stuff for the arguments sake

@user-ue6ur5nt5z

Жыл бұрын

@@Santzu_ oh? I thought it was pretty spot on, what were the mistakes you saw?

@Santzu_

Жыл бұрын

@@user-ue6ur5nt5z Him saying goku in the raditz saga had a philosophy or sparing everyone even though he killed literally every villain he had a chance to kill and had no problem with it, him leaving out or ignoring the reason he let vegeta go which was purely to fight him again and not any mercy stuff like he said, leaving out that goku gave vegeta a senzu in the namek saga even though he was as evil as he was before purely to have a rematch again, him saying goku thought about his morality and misjudgement in yardrat which is completely head canon, him leaving out that the only reason goku didn't want to die from the heart virus was to fight the androids, him leaving out that goku was excited to fight cell even though he knew he couldn't beat him, him leaving out goku not having any problems with killing dabura and would have done it if he had the chance, leaving out that goku having no problems with killing buu, goku never forgot about the spirit bomb he just didn't think of it, goku never learned any teamwrok/trust ideology in the buu saga bc he always believed and did teamwork and trusted people since he was a kid, goku did want to fight broly he just didnt want broly to be manipulated, leaving out that goku wanted to have broly as a sparring partner at the end of the broly movie. Sorry for the long comment lol

@user-ue6ur5nt5z

Жыл бұрын

@Santzu Yeah, I can see some of those, specially the ones left out. However I do want to enumerate things that are true on carthu's part. 1. Goku *did* have a philosophy of sparing people in the beginning of Z, that's because of kami's teachings, eighter's words to him, and him meeting tien. So yes, after all that chara development in og db, goku *did* learn to spare people. 2. Goku didn't just let vegeta go to "fight him again". I don't remember the dialogue very clearly but the dialogue clearly implies that goku doesn't want to kill vegeta simply because he trusted in change. Just like carthu said. You can reread it if you want to check. 3. Nothing was ever mention about goku giving vegeta a senzu just to fight him again. He simply gave vegeta a senzu because he's so above everyone he knows he can beat everyone, and that simply because vegeta was wounded and goku read krillin's mind and he knows that vegeta and krillin + gohan were fighting a common enemy. 4. All the times you said "leaving out when goku wanted to kill (insert chara)". Mentioning those would be meaningless in the end because, well, goku wanting to kill them doesn't mean he doesn't have the philosophy of justice and forgiveness anymore. And also, buu is an anomaly that even the gods of their universe wants killed. Goku not minding whether buu is dead doesn't mean much. Dabura's literally the king of demons so yeah. Though even still, I see no mention anywhere that says "goku wants to kill dabura". He wouldn't mind if dabura died but he never actively tried to murder him so yeah. That's all. And lastly, I don't know which side you're taking so I was pretty confused when you pointed out carthu's "mistakes". The video was about goku's mentality growing up, basically character development and some of the points you mentioned doesn't have any correlation to goku's chara development. Are you arguing against goku being kind or are you not?

@Santzu_

Жыл бұрын

@@user-ue6ur5nt5z Did you watch z in dub or dub? Cause basically all your points are dub only or things the dub changed

I find luffy to be very similar to this. Beyond the fact that he was most probably inspired by goku, his morality is quite similar, he’s a good guy but no hero as he even says himself. At the same time he approaches situations in a way that no one else would

Ayeee carthu. Channel is growing nicely. Keep up the good work man👍

@MrThemelloman

4 жыл бұрын

Also goku didnt kill piccolo ONLY because he wouldve lost the tournament. Lemme tell you guys this. Goku was a straight savage in dragon ball. He killed alot of people. He slautered everyone at the red ribon base and he laughed while doing it. Completely gleeful. I tell you, as someone starting with dragonball z I was shook to see how brutal goku was and how many times he did it with a smile. And they say he didnt have a character arc..

Great video! thanks!

Goku first meeting Cell is also a good key moment for his morality at that point of time. Goku already has learned that some people just can't be redeemed and he looks at Cell who holds a guise of holding a tournament to hide how cruel he really is.

Great video 👏 Didnt think it could get this deep

Great video love it

This was a beautifully made video. I have been so sick of people talking shit about Goku's 'fake' heroism/bad parenting/etc etc. Can we just stop being so cynical and appreciate this character for the pure hearted, natural hero that he was? Thank you for this.

Good video

Love you carthu!

Damn. That was deep. Subbed.

Everyone thinks goku is a stupid main character because he’s so strong he doesn’t make sense ,but in reality he trained his whole life he worked his entire life to earn his power he has such and worked for character development but super ruined him in some ways but other did really good hes an amazing person

Hey, real abrupt ending. Besides that, good video.

never thought an anime where you fight aliens to protect earth would be so philosophical

This video is very interesting. Really enjoyed it.

Great video! It was very well organized and detailed. But I don’t really like that you called Raditz ‘irredeemable’. Sure, he did reject Goku’s offer and was lying. But that’s cause Raditz had no reason to change at that point. Vegeta, who was MUCH worse than Raditz, redeemed. And it wasn’t quick either, took a long time. Raditz is redeemable but he didn’t face the circumstances Vegeta did. So thus he died a villain. Remember, Raditz was disturbed by Vegeta’s callousness about their planet being destroyed. And in the manga, we see him playing with beetles alongside other children. He even is seen holding Gine’s hand as Bardock is leaving for a mission. Portraying him even remotely in the same light as Frieza is very unfair. The guy has redeeming traits and wasn’t as bloodthirsty like Nappa and Vegeta were. Like I said, they just have to put some effort into writing an arc for him. Cause Vegeta proves that pretty much anyone can change, minus a few exceptions.

@Black_Knight_-BK-

Жыл бұрын

I find it funny that people dismiss what you stated. I always felt Raditz coulda been redeemed since he wasnt as evil as Nappa and Vegeta. Being forced to work for Frieza as well as two saiyans who look down on him could have turned him into a good guy. I understand that Goku doesnt have to forgive him because he's his brother, but Vegeta has done way worse things on his own will most of the time. Double Standards

@SonZackSSJ2

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Finally Someone gets it

we all need to be Goku.

Wow the way you broke down Goku's morality is very layered and complex which I never really thought about before which is very interesting.

Great video, you just earned yourself another subscriber. I've seen quite a few of your vids, and I must say, I'm impressed. On a topic unrelated to this video, I hope the what if Future Gohan survived and what if Gohan never stopped training series will continue. Both of those series were awesome.

Excellent! Although the Spirit bomb thing could have just been he forgot cuz he hadnot used it in 10 years. also pretty sure that with Super Saiyan 3 Toriyama just hadn't finished designing it yet which is why there's a plot hole.

Quite certainly Goku is not an infallible example of perfection personified nor is he unrestricted benevolence made flesh and blood. Goku despite Sayian biology is as human and flawed as anyone one else and thus he to is prone to the inner-struggles and vices each of face throughout our lives. Goku’s character is brilliant on account that he is not some reflection of idealized righteousness but one who continues to grow through each of his experiences.

@KyleEvra

Жыл бұрын

Goku is not a human you dolt!