Here's 'the Dutch woman' from the video. As you may tell, this session pretty much rocked me to my core. When I noticed myself raising my hand that Saturday in Engelberg to be called upon to do the Work, I had no idea that this session would end up on KZread, but I am very excited for this conversation to be available for everyone - because I think it's a conversation worth having. Plus, I have benefited so strongly myself from all the courageous people and sessions that the Byron Katie International team have continued to pour out over the internet, that I hope (knowing that it's completely none of my business ;D) that this video will do the same for someone else. The impact of this work has continued to unravel ideas about myself, human beings and other animals, and suffering - until this day. For those interested; I am very happy to report that, like Katie predicted, I tend to not become passive and uncaring towards animals in the meat industry when I dropped my aggression towards this industry. On the contrary; I find myself being more available for all kinds of information and new conversations around this topic. I feel more productive (I am a Dutch publicist and my writing is hugely informed by this session and the Work in general) and most importantly: more peaceful. Who knows what the future will bring - but this session has been the start of something unraveling deeply within me. I am beyond grateful to Byron Katie and her loving team. Words can't express it. (And I can't look at my socks, jeans, hair or teeth the same way that I used to after what happened at 29min10 ;D)

@liliabekuzinaensosense8580

6 жыл бұрын

Geertje Couwenbergh thank you!

@Veganggg

6 жыл бұрын

Did you go to the slaughterhouse? Are you vegan?

@transporter78213

6 жыл бұрын

Tah dah! Magic that releases the individual from their own created suffering. Have you been to a slaughterhouse in your country since that day with BK? If so how has it affected you?

@luisa1473

6 жыл бұрын

Geertje Couwenbergh Thank you for doing my work

@claudiagomezflores9622

6 жыл бұрын

Geertje Couwenbergh I loved this sesion! I think you are a very couragious woman and also a very loving, caring personas and are now able to apply these virtues un your life and work! So happy for you!

She's not saying don't take action. She's saying you with be more effective coming for a clear mind of peace rooted in reality rather than a mind full of suffering thoughts replaying over and over again. Thank you for this video BK it was so helpful to me.

If the woman who did this work with Byron Katie is ever on here and sees this comment I want to say that I really feel connected to you through this video and love you and support you in your work! Thank-you for doing this with Katie. It was such a gift to watch this.

@GeertjeCouwenbergh

6 жыл бұрын

Mrs.Bubba Bubba thank you. I'm so happy to hear that.

Ok so what I think the overall point Byron is trying to make is you can go about this without suffering. If you are vegan and support this then you don’t have to fight the war against the meat industry while suffering and angry about it. They do what they do. You want to make a change, you can still do that with being at ease with reality.

After seeing this I think what Katie means is not to be attached to it ( the thoughts) because these thoughts only hurt you. You can still help to save animals by taking steps to help them but I think she means not to get caught in the thoughts about how terrible the meat industry is so that it brings you pain because your pain does not help the animals it only causes you anguish however your actions will help them as an example I became a vegan for that very reason that I did not want to contribute to the animals pain and also my pain by eating them.

I love Byron Katie, but the issue remains that we really should be as upset and angry as this woman over the meat industries and the needless torture of animals to supply food we don't need and only causes health problems. We should not be placated by ignoring the issue and trying to reach a place of complacency. Yes, I agree with Byron that we need to be happy with our world, and we need to be in a good place in our mind to help protect it, but we also have to face the fact that we are destroying the planet it by eating meat. The statement that this is not the meat industry's problem, that "those are not real cows and chickens" is unacceptable. Yes, we must not live in fear, this is NOT fake news, and the problem is real. I'm glad she redeemed herself at the end.

Also a dutch woman. Seen it twice now. But this is the only katie video i dont get. Yes animals are sentient beings, yes they feel pain and terror and love . Yes it is a horrible industry. I just cannot see it differently. Allthough i do know that preaching to people does not work. Just saw earthlings. It broke my heart. I m ashamed to be a human.inll watch it again though. I m just not getting this one

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

same here. I wish Katie would watch earthlings.

@agypsyrover

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know, I'm not getting this one either. The video the lady saw are not false images of past or future, they are real footage of real animals that were filmed in that present moment. How can we possibly deny the horror of the meat industry, it is not in our heads. I get that being angry doesn't help. I get that hurting over it doesn't help but at the same time isn't it this understanding of wrong that motivates any movements to correct things..... the people who liberated the jews from the camps for example..

Katie always asks a question that unstucks my inquiry. Simply love her. She is there for us even when we are not infront of her. God Bless u Katie, the lovers of reality who dare to open themselves on a public platform and people who share these videos! Love you all

Fear and anxiety hormones in meats are measurable.

Thank you so much Geertje for this huge work you did for us all with Katie. I am in tears till now and absolutely moved. I feel with you and all beings which have no voice and serve us here on earth to become again aware of our essence and being which we lost on our way of feeling connected to all beings - the nature and ourself. I am very thankful to feel more connected when I can feel this empathy for everything although I might not agree. I am from Germany, vegetarian in the most cases vegan and I work sometimes directly next to a very big slaughter house.... but I wasn't brave enough to get in there and really see what is happening. And I get the point of get more educated at the other point of few which I am against. Thank you for the work Katie I am moved deeply, and so glad I found you here.

Thank you for doing this because I'm vegan and it is difficult on so many levels, like your video reveals. Great to be vegan and free!

This is so incredibly profound. Can be applied to so many situations - and to so many seemingly very heartless and brutal industries. The basic message seems to be to not judge, but to observe with love.

Watching this conversation really helped me. I'm also a Dutch woman with similar reoccuring thoughts about the violent meat industry.

I'm really disapointed of Katie on that one..

@lucasboldt3255

5 жыл бұрын

Is this case, I think "the work" is not done yet. Katie just pointed a possible direction. A begining. Good luck!

While Katie ultimately seems to support the Dutch woman's call to oppose the violence of meat eating in an effective way that does not condemn or alienate the meat-eating majority, it was not clarified in a coherent way. I felt that much of what she said to this young woman was disrespectful, as well as illogical and inconsistent. To equate courageously-filmed slaughterhouse footage and her awakened response to it with "fake news" and dismiss it as being all about the" past and future" ( as though they had no relevance to daily life) was a disservice to animals, caring activists and people questioning the meat eating paradigm -- especially if you don't watch the whole video and learn that Katie is a vegetarian herself. To pressure the woman to say, ok, no, she can't be SURE that the meat industry is indeed the largest and most accepted form of violence is taking "the Work" too far. We are talking 60 billion sentient beings every year. Some 25% of cows are skinned alive, according to some inside reports. It was courageous of the young woman to continue pursuing it with her. Perhaps the Work itself is too formulaic and should be questioned. Or apply the 4 steps to the "Work" itself: (" Can we be absolutely sure that this is the best way to approach issues like this, etc." or "Who would you be without following the 4 steps in trying to address an issue? "etc ) Why not simply have a wise discussion on the topic, conducted as equals? Sorry if this offends Katie followers (do the Work?). Life is not just about examining what makes you happy or makes you not happy. Sometimes we are rightfully disturbed and thus called to action to oppose acts by the powerful that not only deprive innocents of their happiness but that also causes them immense suffering and torture. For a more coherent and experienced response to this cultural and ethical challenge of our times, see the many videos of vegan activist and spiritual teacher Will Tuttle or watch "Farm Sanctuary's Bruce Friedich's "Effective Advocacy,"--kzread.info/dash/bejne/eoKYzsGfZazHkqSR.html- -- which includes the obvious issue of getting past the angry activist stage.

@jenevebrooks

6 жыл бұрын

susanpitcairn thank you for this post! I found Katie’s treatment of this topic to be uninformed. I think it’s right to question the violent response that various activists take with others. But still - you can’t apply the work which is meant more for interpersonal relationships and The beliefs we hold about them to the massively powerful and well-funded agribusiness. And when she told the young woman that she could not know herself What’s happening, unless she personally went to the slaughter houses - It’s not giving credence to the role that science and investigative journalism plays in our society.

Wow! this was amazing. I don't often cry at these enquiries but this one I couldn't help the emotion. The different people telling their different experiences was just so valuable and humbling. Thank you!

animals are sentient beings - yes its totally true! Why is the vegan girl saying NO? I dont get it... can somebody please explain this to me???

This is very questionable, so many things don't feel right about the Work with this issue. And you know what it's not easy getting close to a slaughter house or any factory farm for that matter, animal agriculture does not want the general public to see what is going on in these places. If anything i truly believe that it's the meat eaters that need to visit these places, not the vegans or vegetarians, we already know and we already feel the pain of these beings. And when Byron said to go to the internet for justification for eating meat, i laughed because yes the reasons are there only because the meat industry is so powerful it will make sure that people keep on eating meat. I know its hard for passionate activists to not be in the face of people and that needs to be tempered down for sure but if it weren't for activists giving of themselves endlessly the vegan movement in the world would not be growing, so many people are ready to face the sad reality of animal exploitation and that's a good thing because it's challenging their beliefs and motivating them to change their diet.

To the beautiful woman who did the work and others like her.... Byron Katie explained that through understanding, education and not needing to shame others we gain power and we do not lose our values. She said we gain more power and our values get stronger. I believe I see this example in Lyn White from Animals Australia. She is a huge example for me. She never shames anyone, but she has such an understanding and education that she was able to confront going into the worst farms and slaughterhouses of the world in the middle east. Because of her understanding and education she was not noticed as an activist but as one of them, and through her work she was able to educate Australia through the mainstream media and thousands of people made changes in their lives. She even received high standing awards because of this. If you read this, you might like to watch her first speech on vimeo, "An evening with Lyn White" - vimeo.com/38813416. And the newer one on youtube, "Becoming the best we can be" - kzread.info/dash/bejne/fGWlyqmxgdvTiqQ.html The older one covers her life and what she did for the animals. The newer one is more about visions for a peaceful, compassionate, loving and connected world for people and all things. For me these speeches are so beautiful, give me chills and flow the inner power of this woman. I'm not sure if I am right about any of this, but it's the way I feel. There are other people like her, but she stands out for me and I thought I'd share. Thank you for your work... to all in the video.

Katie points out that there are people who depend on the meat industry their livelihoods. So true! Just like people who sell child pornography. But we never have to shame anyone, or accept it as a burden.

Incredible:After having worked on this video over the day, I went to view the Ungarian film "Body and Soul" without knowing more than that it obtained the "Goldener Bär" in Berlin this year: This film is playing in a slaughterhouse exploring exactly what Byron Katie in the young woman were speaking about! An absolute must, this film.

So powerful! A huge emotion for me too. Amazing. Thank you.

THANK YOU SO MUCH "Both" for doing" the work" on and sharing this very difficult-emotional topic with us

that's really great and so helpful for any cases of violence. Thank you!

I watched this and just cried... The world is Beautiful... Thank you...

The Gratitude I feel for this work is beyond words....Thank you Katie and to the courageous young women who was willing to be seen and thus allow us all to see ourselves... what a gift... Katie your shirt is fabulous and I am loving your hair too!

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

you seriously talk about her shirt and hair after hearing about these suffering animals? :o

Thanks a lot to katie and the vegans ladies who shared theirs experience. Special thanks to the duch lady who was brave enough to question her thoughts and made possible for me to question mines on this subject. To me this workshop is the most powerful you have ever shared and the next is the one with the lady who feared Trump. Thanks again for sharing.

The Work is the best thing on Earth. The Work and... VEGANISM :-). Both of it I cant be 100% sure about but it feels so right....

Thank you for this powerful piece. I was finally able to work throuh my own convictions about that issue.

Thanks a lot for the additional video text (or subtitle or transcript)! I'm a Chinese. As a foreigner whose English is not good enough to listen well, I need the text very much. Hope all the videos would have video text! I think that will help many many foreigners like me!

Wow! Incredible work done here. There was a major shift into LOVE. I really felt the audience member that felt the calf's love and acceptance was feeling the truth of the animal and that it means we're all connected and all in this together. Thank you for your insight and for the work Byron Katie♡

Yikes! I have to disagree. If Martin Luther King had gone to Byron Katie to talk about how his people were oppressed and didn't have the right to vote, would he have been advised to not believe the thought? It isn't because this woman saw it in a video that is it not real. The evidence is clear that animals are mistreated and if we all take a passive attitude, nothing will ever change. Factory farming is some of the worst torture imaginable. When she encourages the woman to question whether or not she would really want the factory workers to be out of work and to think of their family... Come on! The decline of factory farming would mean the rise of vegetable/grain farming, and cleaner meat, if anything they would end up with a job they can feel proud about. I think the work is powerful in dealing with psychological BELIEFS but it just doesn't apply to concrete FACTS. I feel very close to what this woman is going through, and this is the reason I've stop eating meat and encourage others to be educated about the subject and do what they can as well.

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

thank you for that comment, I actually thought I was the only one who saw it differently

@laurenpadron74

6 жыл бұрын

Yes!!!!! Thank you. Even though her emotion was triggered by a video, "an image in her mind's eye"... she was completely right in considering the violence that affects these animals, the disease, violence and death that plagues them... This was very off. The acts that go on in the industry towards the animals is real.

@brianaanderson9165

5 жыл бұрын

jiggsawjazz go off

We'll be at the slaughterhouse tomorrow, holding a wake

First I was so happy about this WORK, because this is the topic that makes me suffer the most...but now I am deeply disappointed. Is Byron really saying that she believes that the meat industry is not making the animals suffer??? :o Or at least she is HOPING that...which of course makes us feel much better, if we dont want to see what is really going on. That undercover video was not fake, I guess??? I am kind of shocked by Katies opinion...

Animals are equally sentient to humans in every respect. They have the same central nervous system, the same emotions, the same physical needs and they feel pain exactly like humans do. This is a Fact. Read The Declaration on Consciousness from Cambridge U.K. This is Not about shaming anyone. This is not about the activist. This not about winning an argument. This is about Please See the Facts and live out of Compassion. Killing and torturing animals is the exact Same situation as killing and torturing humans.

1:00:00 What a Disgusting disgrace for her to repeat such a sentence. I'm so done now with Byron Katie. Peace out.

Very enlightening ...many thanks 💗

Katie, I love "the Work" and have such incredible respect for how patient you are with everyone you work with! This is a topic that indeed causes war with others and within ....and does indeed cause suffering! Thank you for taking such care and taking it to the depths you did. One thing I might add...or maybe two...is that I did go hunting with my son......and saw how sacred it is. ....I have also butchered and understand that the animal must be gutted and skined....this never happens while the animal is alive! ...and is done with great respect. the other thing is that we are all here to serve...and if animals grown for food are sentient beings working their way up the consciousness scale, on a level much higher than we here on earth, they know and chose as souls to come here to serve...it was a choice.....we may indeed have little knowledge of the ascension of any being. And do so know that plants have consciousness also....and they too understand they serve....in so many ways that we do not even begin to understand. Thank you for this video!

@karenpike6138

5 жыл бұрын

crowdancer5 if you had any respect for animals you would never take their lives. They live and feel pain and are not here to serve us. Don’t talk about hunting and respect in the same sentence,there is nothing respectful or right about hunting an animal and murdering it.

This was a very good one Byron, thank you!

Dacht al te horen dat ze Nederlands is. Geweldig om Katie te mogen ontmoeten. 🙏😍

Thank you so much for this.

HERE and NOW lovley Greetings from COLOGNE/GERMANY

I like Byron BUT, for me this just didn’t work. Anything that was said will not/ and has not changed the amount of animals that die every day.

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

so true...

@transporter78213

6 жыл бұрын

It's obvious you don't get the point.

@rushmipriya

6 жыл бұрын

Is that true

@gabisermoneta2198

6 жыл бұрын

So a video showing slaughter houses where animals are violently killed is a fiction? I get that the mind runs its horror movie BUT those animals were real and someone had the guts to go and film that.

@orlandoweichistocool

6 жыл бұрын

Mahesh Hayward but we also have to understand that everyone simply doesnt know all the facts about different sources of protein. So for them their only option is to eat meat. To often we vegetarian and vegan also all those consumers of meat, we take the role of the critic. Instead of understanding that their are multiple factors in play here. Here is a suggestion let's perhaps educate people on why being a vegetarian and vegan is a good option. I feel to often vegetarian and vegan folks often attack and spew out horrendous facts instead of using the power of education to show people. Again some working class families depend on meat. Tell the world the benefits of being a vegetarian? Tell us how good it is for your digestion or how it in fact the diet can make you live longer. But instead we are shown images of slotter houses and made to feel guilty and ashamed. I ask you where is the power in that? More shame is what's going to change the world? Really? Lets be loving vegetarians.

Thank you for this!

Oh and at 11:20 - I want to stop suppporting the meat industry: stop eating eggs, stop drinking milk :-)

Animals ARE sentient beings as an expression of consciousness. Humans are also expression of consciousness, we are ONE with them, nothing separates us from animals. Nothings says we are entitled to kill them. I only see BK here helping to see that putting yourself as the right one against the rest of the world is just an egoic attitude (the ego feels "more" than the rest of the world ) This is one of the rare time I have seen BK being not so "clear" about the issue, she seems to be involved herself.

some "AntiNatalists" could use "The Work" as well as other idea groups who are suffering due to their "certainty" that they are right "libertarians" "atheists" "hard determinists" "enviormentalists" etc...

@nickidaisyreddwoodd5837

5 жыл бұрын

A mother loves her baby. A predator person comes along and wants to hurt the baby. What does the mother do? She protects her baby and if necessary she will hurt the predator! Same with animal rights activists who protect the animals. All animals are my children. They are equally precious. And that is Love.

Is Byron Katie the wisest person on the planet? - I think she actually might be

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

really? why? because she thinks animals are not feeling pain???

We need to be furious about what happens....anger can make us change our ways. I have seen FIRST hand. This is like the holocaust, but with animals. THAT is NOT friendly. I have seen first hand what happens. I have heard the cows cry when the calves are taken away. I do not agree with Byron here......but maybe the woman's statement was too far encompassing a statement.

@SantaCruzHappy1

6 жыл бұрын

We definitely cause our own suffering...by our thoughts.

Wow this was amazing

Wonderful

THANK YOU BYRON FOR OPEN MY EYES

The mic assistant pushing the mic closer to that womans mouth at 1:13:00 (and once before it) is really annoying me :)))

Beautiful

Lovely ❤

I hope they went vegan after this!

Isn't Byron a vegan ? It would be so weird if she isn't a vegan :/

@natashazheltova1412

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, she is

They even look alike !

Thank you for your beautiful work. I just very deeply want to share with everybody a book that truly, profoundly changed my life: The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability from Lierre Keith. I hope you give it a try. You could just consider it as a part of your research. Especially if you're passionate about this topic. Thank you.

eating animals is not necessary and moral, Byron! I am really shocked about that video! and yes, I did my research on the internet!!!

@natashazheltova1412

6 жыл бұрын

She's a vegetarian, btw

My 15yo daughter has been a Vegan Fascist, and we watch this together in 10 minute segments. Thank you, it's helping us both.

@Morgonsol

6 жыл бұрын

Jeremy Chance You are calling your daughter a fascist?!

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

Jeremy it is a shame that you call your daughter this.

@Nightingale47

5 жыл бұрын

People here are so freakin' fast to judge here, it's almost unbelivable. We just watched a video about that! 😅 First, find out the actual definition of the word (as told in this exact video also!) and THEN if you still feel the need to judge, do the worksheet on that judging. Every time you judge do the worksheet. It's NEVER about other people. Never never never (Katies words actually). And this means that it's time for me to do the worksheet also of me judging you judging him 😅 So I'm not at all saying that I'm above all this, I'm just really hoping people would recognize when they are judging and understand that it's never about the other person. But the ego loves to project that to them. It's your free will to let it if you want to, but that will only bring suffering to you, and to everyone else. Peace out ✌❤

Canivore here ... wonderful inquiry. BK .... It is good to revisit and go deeper. I have been freed from the beliefs that eating veggies was needed to be healthy, only to discover that plants don't want to be killed (eaten, their babies (seeds) and they protect themselves by emitting toxins (that this body reacted to). Seems like all life have a way of protect protecting themselves. Just because they don't have a face doesn't make them less important to those who do. I am working on my perception and reaction in learning of the way land us used to grow and veggies and grain strips the land of all its nutrients and eventually unussble ... nothing us able to grow. Some juicy stuff there LOL

Plants have feelings now? lol

@bella3636

6 жыл бұрын

rumpsugg yeah I found that ridiculous too. And sentient being simply means a being that is able to feel pain. And vegetables don't feel that. That's why we call people who are alive but don't feel anything vegetables. And the meat industry also has influence on people because they spend millions of dollars on advertising and lobbying for ag gag laws etc

@g.christelbecker6349

6 жыл бұрын

even rocks, insects, diamonds, a grain of sand. lo!

601 likes (uncaring and pushover people) to 43 dislikes (deeply compassionate people) you see the ratio? That is precisely why there is so much destruction, pollution, religion, callousness, violence and suffering in the world.

Hopefully soon clean meat will be available for people who care so much about eating meat. I also do suffer from the existence of the meat industry

@maavente

6 жыл бұрын

Clean meat?! Do you mean by that meat without feelings? Robotanimals? Or animals who sacrifices themself for us humans? So we can eat without these silly feelings of bad consience? Wow!

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

clean meat might be something that is poduced artificially...

Love u katie

"The Emperor has no Clothes"......What intellectual rubbish Katie...!

Has this video helped anyone?

@sheilakirwan6900

6 жыл бұрын

Victoria Campbell yes ....and obviously from the other comments

@rolfvanleeuwen7879

6 жыл бұрын

I love the Work and have followed it for years. This interaction left me speechless --truthfully, it appeared to me the Katie may have been off the mark . . . maybe her own insensitivity to the suffering of other sentient beings. Has she questioned her participation in the slaughter? When she said "can you truly know they are sentient?" --of course not, and I can't know that any human is sentient either . .. . so what do you do with that? I am vacillating between: "Wow I must really be blind and confused" and "Well, even Katie has blind spots" It appeared that the Dutch woman was lead to easily to where Katie appeared to want her to go. But then again, I hesitate to believe everything I think!

@rolfvanleeuwen7879

6 жыл бұрын

Ok. . . I finished the last 25 minutes . . . .should have done that first . . oops. But . . . I still can't fathom that statement: "I imagined being skinned alive . . . and then could see the animal was at peace" . . . wishful thinking? It isn't really complicated. Animal is suffering. Do I choose to participate in that suffering? Just that.

@painfreesunrise

6 жыл бұрын

NO! not at all, I am in a state of shock right now to be honest. Byron Katie does not seem to have any empathy for animals... its horrible...but I havent finished watching yet