I just happened to be studying this passage this morning to prepare to teach it, including reading Carson’s commentary. I appreciate your going a little further!

Very interesting talk. I've always viewed it as one of those details that could only be provided by an actual eye witness to the event.

Very good, thank you!

I think #4 position makes a lot of sense. Thank you for this study. BTW, I really got blessed with your study identifying the harlot of Revelation. Your conclusion is something I’ve always had in the back of my mind, yet I didn’t take the time to work out the reasoning that you did. Speaking of the gosspel of John, I’m curious to know what your position is regarding John 1, and why it is so commonly used to prove the Trinity. Without sharing all my notes regarding the tenor of John chapter 1 (at this point at least), I think some legitimate questions to pose are: When was “the beginning” of verse 1? Creation of Genesis 1, or could it be more relative to the phrase, “from the beginning” that John uses in his subsequent epistles (particularly I John 1:1)? Exactly what is being “created” in John 1? Physical light? Or could it be the thoughts. reasonings, plans [Logos] for the “Son of God” = “The King of Israel” = “The Messiah” (titles exultantly proclaimed by WITNESSES [i.e, Andrew, Philip and Nathanael in John chapter one

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

5 ай бұрын

Shoot me an email sometime and we can discuss that in better detail. Stephen.hackett@outlook.com

There are many theories about why the number “153” is used by the author. Still, there is a principle from a medieval philosopher known as “Occam’s Razor,” which basically states, “The simplest explanation that accounts for the evidence is often the most likely to be correct.” What is the evidence for the explanation? Secondly, the disciples are reminded of the miracle of the five loaves and two fishes as Jesus is making them breakfast on the beach. Jesus fed five thousand people following him because they were hungry for the Word of God and looking for hope. Metaphorically, the disciples were in the middle of a huge fishing opportunity as they passed out food, the word, to hungry people. Thirdly, the author says this is the third time that Jesus has appeared to the disciples. He appeared to them twice before in chapter 20 of John’s Gospel. In the previous two appearances, the disciples hid in a locked room because they were afraid of being arrested. The first time Jesus appeared to them, he told them that the Father sent him, so he is sending them, and he breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Spirit. Eight days later, the disciples were in this room again, and Jesus appeared. This is where Thomas finally believed that Jesus was resurrected. Jesus says, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.” Well, how would those believe without seeing Jesus? Someone has to tell them about Jesus. That’s the disciples. But they’re afraid and not leaving that room. Then, here in chapter 21, they leave the room, but they still aren’t telling people about Jesus. If, in the two previous appearances, Jesus was motivating the disciples to do what they were called to do, preach the Gospel to all the world, then this third appearance would be for the same reason. Therefore, this story is about getting the disciples to stop running away from their calling. What’s the significance of the symbolism of the number 3 in scripture? It’s extremely significant; that’s why the author is using it in this story. Just a few examples of the importance of the number three to convey critical Christian truths; • The trinity • The Temptation of Jesus • The ministry of Jesus • The resurrection of Jesus Throughout Christianity, the number three represents fulfillment and completeness. The revelation of the Godhead is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The temptation of Jesus by Satan completes his preparation for his ministry. The ministry of Jesus spanned 3 years, completing and fulfilling his mission to preach the kingdom of God. The resurrection of Jesus completes and fulfills why he came into the world. Jesus appeared to the disciples three times to convey the message to them to get out and do what he called them to do; preach the Gospel to those who are lost. The third appearance shows they have received enough motivation to get busy. To get busy and do what? To be fishers of people. Therefore, the number 153 represents people, and the kind of catch represents the type of people. When the disciples got ashore, they saw Jesus already had fish of the fire. He told them to bring some of their fish over and put them on the fire. So Simon Peter went aboard and pulled the net to shore. It was full of large fish, 153. The Greek word used for “full” here is mestos, which means satisfied or fulfilled. Jesus had brought the fish he caught with his ministry; now it was time for the disciples to bring the fish they caught in their ministry. The net had every shape, size, and kind of fish, representing every kind of people regardless of background or ethnicity. This would be something the disciples, being Jewish believers in Jesus, would continue to struggle with, preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles, but the catch here meant all were to hear the Gospel. When the number of all who will be saved (153) is complete or fulfilled/satisfied, then the fishing will be done. Here is an interesting mathematical anomaly about the number 153. The sum of its numbers is divisible by 3: 1 + 5 + 3 = 9, which is divisible by 3. Here’s another mathematical curiosity about 153. The sum of its cubed numbers equals 153: 1 cubed is 1 + 5 cubed is 125 + 3 cubed is 27 = 153. The number 3 represents fulfillment, and therefore, the number 153 shows the readers that Jesus tasked his followers to complete the gathering of all who will believe in Jesus Christ and be saved. When that is accomplished, the age will end, and all who believe will sit with Christ and eat together at the marriage supper of Christ and His Church.

Interesting topic! I'll try my own opinion. I think it is necessary to first ask the question, why such a long text about an all-night, unsuccessful fish hunt in the first place? Was there a reason in catching those 153 fish? At the end of chapter 21 (25), John writes that Jesus did far more than could be listed. So why did John choose this seemingly - trivial - situation with a catch? Peter and the other apostles, paddling to and fro, casting a net here and there, all night long. And nothing. Only in the morning, Jesus comes and says: Cast the net over there, on the right. And because of the abundance of fish, they are unable to pull it into the boat, so they drag it behind them. And the fish, though they were big, didn't fight back at all and didn't tear the net. Even as they write this, many sense that I understand it to be a wonderful parable of the end of the ages! In the time of darkness, fish live, but so do fishermen. But they don't know about each other. The fish are not seen, they are in the sea (from which the seven-headed beast will one day come out), but only at the beginning of the last eschatological day, over the "morning", Jesus will come, will show his faithful where the fish are that are to come out of the sea on the land; there are people who do not "tear" the net of faith... the picture can be worked into many and many views, in terms of eschatology, ecclesiology, soterology, etc. So that, to me, is why John chose this event when Jesus appeared for the third time in the flesh after his resurrection. In what context then is the number of fish 153? Why is the number exact and not rounded? The first thing is that the text does not indicate who counted the number of fish. The number is associated with Peter pulling the net ashore and immediately the number of fish is communicated. There is no counting. To me, the idea is that the number of fish was simply communicated to them by Jesus before the fish were released from the net. This would prove to them again his power, which none of the humans have. The fact that you tell a fisherman, throw a net or a hook in there, there are fish there, and they actually catch something may be a coincidence. But if you say: Throw a net in there, and then you say there are 153 fish in the net and you count it, then it's not such a coincidence. That's bingo! Jesus would prove who he is all over again. He's already proven it many times: Matt. 17:27 tells Peter to go to the sea, and the first fish he catches, he is to open the mouth of that fish and there he will find a gold coin-that was unrepeatable, excellent proof that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God. There was no such person to know that there was a fish swimming out there somewhere far away, that just about the time Peter gets there, he's going to want to bite the hook on the fishing rod that Peter had in his hand... So: the apostles had to take every fish in their hand out of the net, of course (there were 7 men (Jn 21:2)), but only later could they verify the number. And they confirmed that it was the Lord - which is directly written at the end of the story: No one dared(!) to ask who the man was. For only someone who was Jesus knew these things. The number 153 here has more of a symbolic meaning: it refers to the number of fish=people, that no one will be lost, that the Lord knows exactly and in advance who and where he is... this brings me back to the point made above, that the whole story has several levels, and there this number plays a symbolic role. It has nothing to do with gematria or any other arithmetic solution, in my opinion.

@BiblicalStudiesandReviews

5 ай бұрын

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Maybe their nets when full could only hold 153 fish.

@bobburch9673

6 ай бұрын

Well it does add, large fish. So, it could fit more not just 153, if the fish were not as large. So the nets didn't just have a maximum number of fish, but rather a maximum weight or volume.

Could be they counted the fish and there were 153. John recorded this number. The message is not from John, it is from God. The commision is to catch men for the Kingdom. 100 God's, 50 divine grace, 3 from the Triune God.

Brothers, don't give disclaimers like "I'm not saying this dream is from the Lord." You're not a politician. You're a Christian. Stop being pathetic and be manly. I know it's hard... Sometimes I have opportunity to say Hallelujah or Amen, like at work or at a store in line or something, and I'll inhibit myself so as not to offend. Just go ahead and be real. Let's be disciples, not fragmented halfcreeds.

Jn 21:11 Shim'on Petros went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish- 153 of them. And although there were so many, the net was not torn. These little details also give historical credence. John highlights that the net wasn’t torn. Their nets were of the size that this was a huge catch. There is significance in numbers throughout the Bible. I learned that the number 40 was commonly associated with trials & tribulations. When the great deluge (flood) came it rained 40 days & 40 nights (Gen 7:4). How long did Israel wander in the wilderness? Moshe fasted for 40 days (Exodus 34:28), and Elijah also. It is said Goliath taunted Israel for 40 days, etc, etc. From my translation notes: Gematria: assigning numerical values of Hebrew letters. The Greek form 'Neron Caesar' written in Hebrew (NRON QSR) represents the numbers: 50 200 6 50 100 60 200 = 666. As added substantiation, the Latin spelling of 'Nero Caesar' = 616, which best explains the textual variation of 616 in some mss. (cf. P115; C; Ir mss. (s. Number of the Beast - 616 or 666?, Israel Bible Center, Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg - March 30, 2022). My issue with modern translations is that that they change the original numbers in their conversion. So for example: MRT 1 Kings 10:14 Now the weight of gold which came in to Shlomo in one year was 666 talents of gold, CSB 1 Kings 10:14 The weight of gold that came to Solomon annually was 25 tons, Contemporary translations do this sort of thing all the time. So they distort the original number, and the layman doesn’t even have a clue.

@mrtdiver

6 ай бұрын

@@HansTyndale "I also wonder how much we aren't seeing in the scriptures that was once there before." Chiastic structures. See Amotz (Amos) 5:4ff A) “Seek me and live! B) But do not seek Beith-El, C) do not enter into Gilgal, X) or cross over to Be’er-Sheva; C) for Gilgal will certainly go into exile, B) and Beith-El will come to nothing." A) Seek Yahweh and live! It's a chiasm. Look at the pattern. match A with A', and B with B', etc. What I showed is all over the Bible.

@mrtdiver

6 ай бұрын

​@@HansTyndale They say that the majority of NT quotes are from the Greek text of the OT. It seems to be true from what I've seen. But things were quite different in NT times. Today many people have access to a Bible. Back then you would go to the synagogue to hear a leader read from the scroll. All this to say, Paul probably had vast portions of the OT memorized. He studied under Gamaliel. So at times he and others may have cited OT passages from memory, but we call it a quotation. Ill-regardless, it is inspired and the Word of God. The transmission of the Scriptures has a complicated history. Some felt free to elaborate on the text, like Codex Bezae (D) seems to do, but most did not. The vast majority of the text was carefully copied. And Classical Hebrew has no vowels. Vowels were added by the Masoretes (6th to the 10th century AD) to preserve the Text. So in early translations, like the LXX Hebrew words could easy be confused when there were no vowels present. I started cataloging where the LXX (Septuagint) mistook a Hebrew word for another word. For example: Hab 3,5 LXX has λόγος (word) thinking the vowelless Hebrew text read: -דָּבָר , but the MT (Masoretic text) points the word: דֶּבֶר pestilence (cf. LEH). Have a several examples of this from The Twelve Prophets (the Minor Prophets).

@mrtdiver

6 ай бұрын

​ @HansTyndale regarding Emanuel Tov - I would be critical of his work. Of course he's a brilliant scholar, but he regards variant readings as equally valuable. Tov has given up searching for the authentic, original text. Like many poor textual criticism scholars, I think he has lost his way. The Gematria understanding of the number of the antichrist's name comes from (Israel Bible Center, Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg - March 30, 2022). but Gematria quickly decays into poor interpretive methods if one isn't careful. I think it is only rarely valid for use, emphasis "rarely". Apart from being saved i.e. a genuine believer in the Messiah, good hermeneutics is of upmost importance in correct interpretation of Scripture. Many interpreters take the plain sense of Scripture and pervert it. One quote I wrote in my Bible (as a new believer) went something like: If the plain sense of Scripture makes sense, seek no other sense. I disagree with Stephen (this channel) & Dwayne Green on core Textual Criticism (TC) matters, but they do a good job of challenging aspects of mainstream TC. I have my own translation, that is my work. Just as there is symmetry and order in all creation. Also God in his providence arranged his Word with similar dynamics. This is in opposition to chapter and verse divisions. While helpful in finding & looking up portions of Scripture it hides the authorial order of the Text. My work is called the Chiasm Bible. Notice the antithetical (contrasting) ideas in this short chiastic sentence: Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? A) Having begun B) by the Spirit, X) now