Saying she raped her with her penis makes no sense. Saying she is no longer permitted to race in women's cycling makes no sense. Using sex-based pronouns is extremely important

@littleboots9800

11 ай бұрын

In England and Wales rape requires the rapist to have a penis. So all those hundreds of rapes recorded as being committed by women? Yep, all committed by men. Its so ridiculous. They'll indulge the legal fiction that a man can become a woman, yet will still prosecute them for a crime only men can commit. Its nuts.

@juliemoss9522

5 ай бұрын

Well said.

@Mrstheatre

5 ай бұрын

@@juliemoss9522 agreed. Well said. The takes from the panel made me uneasy, queasy even. Tell the truth - these unholy compromises on language are v much part of the obfuscation/distortion problem. Clarity please!

@Migukmedstudent

14 күн бұрын

@@Mrstheatre Yes.. the panel discussion was a bit disappointing as they don’t seem to grasp the gravity of submission to false reality. The ideology tied respect with pronouns, and that’s what’s causing so much cognitive dissonance for people who want to stick to reality but don’t want to be called out for being ‘disrespectful’. But we really should be calling this out for what it is.. a terrible lie and brainwashing. To say that you can choose your pronouns concede the point that you can choose your sex, which is complete nonsense.

This is the first time I have disagreed with Helen. Saying “she is not allowed in the women’s toilet” has people thinking “oh that’s not right”. They assume it’s a transexual who has had “her” genitals removed and “living as a woman”. Saying “he is not allowed in the women’s toilets” makes it CLEAR we are all talking about a man in women’s spaces.

@tessoftheterfervilles9469

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. All of it.

@baconsarny-geddon8298

10 ай бұрын

Yes. ALWAYS use sex-correct pronouns. If other people want to submit to cult's demand to mis-gender men as "she/her", if wears a dress and invites himself into women's spaces, I won't ALWAYS correct them- I don't want to be the authoritarian "pronoun police", like the petty-dictators on Reddit and Twitter... ...but I WILL make a point of consistently using sex-correct pronouns, and letting people know that it's OKAY TO DO THIS. If people genuinely want to refer to mtf's as she/her, for whatever reason, I don't agree, but I DO accept it's their right to use whatever pronoun they choose... .. but often, for people outside the "gender critical" sphere, even if they DON'T agree with "gender" nonsense; Often they just have an instinctive rejection of biological men in women's bathrooms, or women's sports or whatever... But even when voicing these concerns, they often have STILL been bullied into speaking in terms of "trans-women" and "she/her" pronouns... With people like that, I don't want to bully them BACK into using sex-correct pronouns and terms, by ORDERING them to call Dylan Mulvany "he/him"... Better to just USE "he/him" pronouns, and refer to Mulvany as "a man", or maybe "a man who self-idenifies as 'a trans-woman'..." to give them PERMISSION to do the same (or not, if they don't want to), rather than try to boas them around, like the 'woke' left does with pronouns.

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

Even if a man has his genitals removed, to me he is still male and will always be a he and a male. I used to go along with pronouns for the couple of male crossdressers I knew. But no more.

@Gingerblaze

2 ай бұрын

Yes. Just to add, regarding post op transexuals, women are not castrated men.

I don't agree with Helen, Malcolm or Stella. Using the wrong pronouns is just the first step on the road to this madness. I will use the name they give, but not any acknowledgement of a different sex. Like most of us, I was initially tolerant, couldn't see the harm but as time went on I saw every boundary set, was pushed against then fall. It's gone from, we are 'transwomen' and just want to live our lives in peace, to we are women and we are better than 'ciswomen'. Being kind has led to men in women's spaces, endangering safety and casting aside our dignity. In someone else's words, how to you call a man she, then object when he uses the female facilities.

@miroirs-jumeaux

11 ай бұрын

I think you might be disclosing yourself as one of the pronoun police… glad to see people disagree constructively. 😂

@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559

11 ай бұрын

I'm in the same position. Giving men with gender dysphoria the title of 'trans women' was the first mistake, because while it was meant as a courtesy, it has only fuelled the dellusions of vulnerable people who are desperate to be and be seen as something that they are not. When I hear some men insist that they are 'more woman than women', that they 'get periods' and believe that they'll be able to get pregnant some day, I see how misguided society was in prioritising kindness over honesty.

@trippinggauntlet4520

11 ай бұрын

@@miroirs-jumeaux yup pronoun police, terf, bigot, c*nt, don't care

@loricircuit6903

11 ай бұрын

Complete agreement. I won't even call them transwomen; which I believe is abusive to women. They are men who ID as female, trans-males, trans-identified men (TIMs) or transexuals. I just cannot use the word they want which is woman for man.

@simfimpim

11 ай бұрын

Correct.

Refuse to affirm the delusions of others.

I am one of those so-called pronoun police I always correct wrong sex pronouns to correct sex pronoun as a habit. I do this because the more we get used to using wrong sex pronouns, whether reading them, hearing them, or using them, the more we erase women. Women who do this like me are doing it to police anyone's free speech, we do it for clarity and reality. And really I only do it when it's an article that uses wrong sex pronouns. If someone else is using them I will state that I refused to use them and correct them in my own mind. Using correct sex pronouns is extremely important. All of this started with destroying language and its meaning. It's a matter of being understood and being clear.

@pyeriotsquad

11 ай бұрын

I also refuse to pander or breach reality!

@TooCoolforCardi

7 ай бұрын

THIS. 💯💯 I agree completely. This whole thing started with using preferred pronouns and if using the preferred pronouns instead of appropriate and actual pronouns for that person wasn’t so important, we wouldn’t be having these discussions and having these issues to begin with! Using sex-assigned pronouns instead of preferred pronouns is really important when it comes to many important issues and how we navigate spaces and help protect women and women spaces and women’s rights and issues, so we aren’t being aren’t being erased, violated, bullied, harassed, etc.

@RenegadeContext

7 ай бұрын

When they say they hate the pronoun police I think they may have meant the pro-trans pronoun police. That's how I took it but I can't speak for them

@Gingerblaze

6 ай бұрын

@@TooCoolforCardi the only people for whom the phrase "sex assigned at birth" actually applies to, are people born with intersex or DSD conditions.

@ASlightlyTwistedFemale

6 ай бұрын

I stand with you Laura!!

The whole point of communication is to foster understanding and avoid confusion. This movement wants the opposite

In Australian workplaces in some states you are compelled to wear a pronoun badge. I say " For 68 years no- one had any difficulty working out I am a woman when they wanted to discriminate against me, so what has changed?" Use a person's full name and avoid pronouns.

@christinenazario2565

7 ай бұрын

Excellent point! Years of discrimination, as being a woman, now, I have to announce it to you and wear a badge.😂

@ribbonsofnight

6 ай бұрын

Victoria?

@trainerdisability

5 ай бұрын

@@ribbonsofnightI’m in Victoria. I haven’t seen that yet and I’m at a woke university

@roni1384

4 ай бұрын

I'm imagining a police badge now, with pronouns where the officer ID # would normally go. 😂 I work in the U.S. and I've decided, if my employer asks me to use a person's preferred pronouns, I will say, "I refuse on the grounds that it infringes on my Employment Rights to religious protections, and to not be treated less favorably for it". (I'm agnostic but nobody needs to know that.)

@chrisrageNJ

3 ай бұрын

​@@roni1384you can let them say just enough for you to record or otherwise get on record and file a Title IX discrimination case which will not only get you paid but will set a precedent for others to do the same

My stance is that I don’t use language I am not comfortable with.

@natasharostova5186

2 ай бұрын

when this language becomes company policy the only ones that can be kept comfortable are those imposing the policy

Thank you for posting this discussion. As a supervisory therapist, I'm finding myself needing to clarify how clinicians write up their identifying information consistently, and when to use "identifies as." Not only is there a need for clarity on this front, but I'm finding there's some confusion between "is" and "identifies as" in terms of race/ethnic identity. I'm planning on using Rachel Dolezal as the case in point. Also I'm thinking that the use of cisgender is redundant. I'd never heard the word until 2013 when my local social work school did a training to "set us all straight" on the newspeak. I find myself getting impatient with the confusion that arises with respect to what's real and what's imaginary.

@calmon-ground962

11 ай бұрын

@@autumn905 Yes. It's called proper reality testing.

@davidsprouse151

10 ай бұрын

@@calmon-ground962 Is that what you meant? Or something else.

@TooCoolforCardi

7 ай бұрын

Cis redundant, it’s othering, it’s also a slur, and it was also coined by someone who considered pedophilia as a legit sexuality and supported pedophiles.

@barboglesby2162

3 ай бұрын

The Left's degeneration into this utter insanity has completely destroyed the credibility of today's social work or counseling. It is also undermining the entire medical industry. Catering to this farce inorder to keep a license or job really doesn't show a reflection of true character or courage. There should have been a mass rejection of this farce by our trusted professionals immediately. That there wasn't doesn't reflect well on the people who claim to be the professionals to go to for helping to solve our social, physical and mental problems.

I disagree with Helen. If you call a man she/her how can you then say 'she shouldn't use women's spaces'. It was the thin edge of the wedge that led to the situation we have now.

@LightSpell28

11 ай бұрын

Helen has said this in other interviews! And she's been one of the very loudest people to tell of newspapers and media outlets when they make the sex of a person unclear in reporting. What she's saying here is, if people are discussing this issue amongst themselves and they can't really get the words out because of wondering what words to use, that's a bigger problem because it stops people talking about it.

I don’t think anyone has the right to make people speak words they don’t want to.

@dynamic75

2 ай бұрын

I agree, but several states in the US have new laws that compels employers and co-workers to use “preferred pronouns” or be subject to legal action.

@thisguyoverhere001

2 ай бұрын

As a worker I still refuse to use pronouns. And if anyone tries to force me, then my lawyer will be waiting to file suit. More and more people are fighting back this communist dystopian takeover, and the more we protest, sue, and vote out these traitors, the less power they will have, until they go move to china where they belong.

@sudd3660

2 ай бұрын

unless they are wrong, you can correct people and try to use the right words for the right things, a stone is a stone and you have to correct and make people call it a stone, not a carpet. the whole point of a dictionary and education.

@thisguyoverhere001

Ай бұрын

@@sudd3660 except gender pronouns are a new, made up thing for the mentally ill. This isn't a right or wrong thing, it's an "I've made up new words and definitions and you WILL adhere to them or be punushed" It's political power flexing.

@CBT5777

9 күн бұрын

Unless you work for someone. You do as your told or get another job.

The debate becomes real when you actually talk about trans widows, whose crossdressing ex-husbands now say he's "Mum," and uses the children as props in this charade.

@Rashellyjo

4 ай бұрын

Omg I just started learning about trans widows. Their stories make this perverted movement feel even more perverted.

Using wrong sex pronouns normalises, embeds and gives approval for queer theory to be a sociatal organising principle and practise..

@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220

11 ай бұрын

Official position from the house of Thurston XII..😂

I'm with Maya. Gender identity ideologues have taken their beliefs too far for me to bow to any of their bullying demands. If a trans person seems decent, kind, not delluded and not intent on forcing others to pretend we see them as they see us, then as a courtesy, I will refrain from using pronouns of any kind around them. What I won't do is use male and female pronouns to denote anything other than sex. Doing so has gotten us into our current mess, and the only way to clean it up is with radical honesty, not polite lies.

@AndyJarman

11 ай бұрын

You've met 'trans' people who aren't deluded?

@tiarabite

11 ай бұрын

"If I met a person who pretended to be a dog but treated me nicely, I'd refrain from referring to them as a person out of courtesy"

@lettersquash

11 ай бұрын

@@tiarabite I just realised you've got a great name for a big dog! You sure you're not desperate to come out as one? ;)

@tiarabite

11 ай бұрын

@@lettersquash Eh, more of a cat person. But as in, I think they're neat rather than I want to be one. That'd be weird.

@tessoftheterfervilles9469

11 ай бұрын

Same. I dislike being told how to "terf" myself, but using preferred pronouns isn't to my mind "terfing". It is effectively saying TWAW, or a type of woman. And lying. And promoting this ideology. And as the wise woman wrote, "Pronouns Are Rohypnol". Also, there's no way I will show courtesy or respect to some dude who has masturbated himself to the psychotic longing/delusion to be/passes as/is a women. Having said that, Joyce is one of my absolute top favourite terfs, and I think she was correct to make her choice in her book "Trans".

My PNs ? "That is not a ritual I participate in." "I don't participate in compelled speech." " I don't possess PNs." 🐿

@pamelaroyce5285

11 ай бұрын

Good point. It *is* a ritual required by adherents of the genderism cult. We can decline to participate in the rituals of other people’s beliefs.

@lorrainehewlett984

2 ай бұрын

My cousin jokes that his pronouns are “ass” and “hole.” It does make me laugh. He’s a great guy but neither of us want to be compelled to “state our pronouns.”

Excellent discussion, thank you. Personally I'm with Mr Menno on this but especially concerned with children being forced to use preferred pronouns at school and with newspaper reports (e.g. about 'transgender athletes or male criminals) that use preferred pronouns. 'Her penis' must be the most annoying of all!! Have already cross posted this.😀 Thanks again Dusty

Words matter. You see a different person in front of you if you call them transvestite or if you call them transwoman. I think it's great that Stella can call a man she and still see a man. My perception changes if I call a man she. He doesn't become a woman, but there is a ''slippery sliding'' thing that happens. And I absolutely think that when we started calling them transwomen it became easier to accept them as women.

@DustyMasterson

11 ай бұрын

Yes see the piece 'Pronouns are Rohypnol'

@joane24

11 ай бұрын

I used to be soooo confused with the 'transwoman' or 'transman', I couldn't remember which direction was which. Now with more exposure I got used it (not saying that it's a good thing though). I very much detest using the wrong-sex pronouns, it's butchering the language.

@Gingerblaze

6 ай бұрын

@@joane24 without sex definitions there is zero way to protect women in law. It becomes a legal fiction.

@clairhonnor6211

4 ай бұрын

That's why I use the term ' Trans identified ' . Far preferable to lying

@chrisrageNJ

3 ай бұрын

​@@joane24it's actually easy to remember, think trans=not. Trans(not)man is born a woman, trans(not) woman was born a man...

It's important to reject and never use the newspeak term " misgendering ". It's also important to recognise that the young children around us are influenced by misleading language, and that they don't have the privilege of already owing sex as a clear category and being able to add a layer of faffery like Stella explains she is comfortable doing. I'd add too that while as Helen notes , many adolescents know the difference between sex and ID pronouns , the ability to hold sex as real in the face of shifting ID won't be as easy for younger children as they grow up in a new language milieu that both disrupts normal concept development , and censors naming sex . There does need to be clarity about sex . But that doesn't preclude being pragmatic and in certain contexts avoiding pronouns and the focus of them.

@LightSpell28

11 ай бұрын

That's true, I've been thinking about what it's like for the teenagers who've spent more time with gendery definitions of things like sexual orientation, than the ones we have. And I think Helen's point is important in cases like that- if you're talking to someone who's just started questioning things, maybe using some of their language might help you get through to them? Stuff like "isnt it weird how the trans women are talking over the trans men in that video".

@baconsarny-geddon8298

10 ай бұрын

"Mis-gendering" is a real thing; The word is just used BACKWARDS, 99% of the time (even by many who are CRITICAL of "gender" nonsense). Linguistic "gender" (different to the pseudo-religious concept of sex-independent "gender", of the last decade or two) has ALWAYS been 100% sex-dependent... ...Which means that anyone calling Dylan Mulvany or Contrapoints (or Blair White, for that matter) "she" or "her" unambiguously IS "mis-gendering" him. I get that correct use of the word may be confusing, and require clarification, given that even anti-"woke" conservatives say stuff like "I will ALWAYS misgender Mulvany, with he/him pronouns..." (No, you will CORRECTLY gender Mulvany's as he/him, in rejection of Dylan's DEMAND to be misgendered as a "she/her"...) But that's just the cost of reclaiming our language... We got INTO this mess, by choosing to just LET these ideologues re-define our language, uncontested... We need to have the spine, and make the effort to BOTH USING CORRECT TERMS; To NOT just abandon whatever word they decide to re-define, for their own ends...

@Gingerblaze

6 ай бұрын

@@baconsarny-geddon8298 it is also far more harmful and disrespectful of people who believe false things about themselves. Their very exsistence shows that whatever criteria they are using that results in them concluding they must actually be the opposite sex, is false. If those traits and qualities exsist in them, they belong to them as the sex they already are.

@lys2303

2 ай бұрын

I have perhaps an unusual experience. I’m someone who experienced being misgendered for the first 8 years of my life. I am entirely biologically female however I was given the ‘boys uniform’ to school (my school had gendered uniforms) and my hair was cut short. This meant people frequently referred to me as a boy/he, or teased me for looking like a boy as a female. It lead to what I would say are the symptoms of gender dysphoria for me- disliking my body and fearing I was actually born a boy and had been reassigned at birth without being told. It lead to me trying to make myself look as feminine as possible so that I wouldn’t get misgendered. As a teen I was very happy when people automatically referred to me as ‘she/girl/young lady’ etc. so I do believe misgendering is a real thing because I have experienced it. My opinion is to refer to people with whatever pronouns they ask to be called. To most people it doesn’t matter what someone’s genitalia or chromosomes are and a person might not be able to tell correctly by looking at them so just asking can be a good courtesy. And from my own experience misgendering can feel hurtful and confusing.

@rodneydavidson8554

2 ай бұрын

Speaking about a person in their presence as if they weren’t there is incredibly rude so a person would, in normal conversation, never hear the pronouns used for them. Since talking of someone behind their back is also to be avoided, doesn’t the need for pronouns disappear? I have avoided using them for many years.

What’s your pronoun? “I have no special requests”

@AndyJarman

11 ай бұрын

"Please let me know if you feel so inclined."

@mht5875

11 ай бұрын

My pronouns are Me, Myself and I

@charlesyoung7436

2 ай бұрын

I learned something in this video about the Finnish pronoun situation. From now on I'll be "han" (solo).

Speak! Thank you Helen Joyce. Yes, let's start speaking more freely about all of this.

@user-xg1hq5yl7g

11 ай бұрын

Yes

Thanks for the discussion on what to say during pronoun rituals. The university I’m attending is HEAVY on pronouns. I attend a weekly art group and every week the group starts with intros including pronouns. I just skip that part and don’t say anything. I’m the only person who doesn’t participate. But each week there leaders seems to get more and more aggressive in prompting people to say their pronouns. It drives me crazy. I attend with my 3 year old and she’s started to pick up on the pronoun sharing too she said “pronouns she her” mimicking what others said. And she asked what it was. I didn’t know how to respond because I don’t want to promote that too her. I told her they were saying if they are boys or girls and that entering in the group is a girl. When it came around last week she asked again and I told her I want going to participate and then I didn’t. I wanted to model that it’s okay not to join In even when others are. The whole ritual is really driving me crazy. I wish they would either just stop with the peer pressure or be open to an actual discussion about what’s behind it and why people might not want to say any pronouns.

@siobhannoble8545

9 ай бұрын

THIS is why we call it a cult.

@christinenazario2565

7 ай бұрын

There is a great book that just came out. It’s called “when kids say they’re trans“and it is by Sasha Ayad, Lisa, Marciano, and Stella O’Malley. They have great insight and tips on how to work with your children during this crazy trans time.

@Mrstheatre

5 ай бұрын

The pronoun announcement works like the Nazi Salute 'heil' WW2 - to not comply marks you out as a critic of the ideology. Interesting that you say the tutors are getting more and more aggressive in their pronoun demands. I wholeheartedly disagree with the 'we are just keeping our job' stance of Maya. And Helen showed stronger feelings against women from the gender dissenting side than the genderist side. Pleased Menno is making a stand. These middle-of-the-roaders are leaving the door ajar for further attacks on women and children.

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

Why are you taking your 3 year old to be exposed to this bs? It's clear she's got no clue what's going on and is obviously confused. It doesn't seem right to expose your kid to this.

@pollyester6639

2 ай бұрын

Fgs don’t take your 3 year old child. Question: what’s more important your principles and shielding your precious darling child or your child attending an art class

The thing about pronouns is that they aren't used for the benefit of the person who's being talked about. They're used to convey extra information to the listener in a succinct way. Saying "she attacked and raped a woman" conveys an entirely different message than "he attacked and raped a woman." The same with "she wasn't allowed in the women's championship" compared to "he wasn't allowed to compete in the women's championship." If someone isn't using sex based pronouns it is incredibly dishonest and confusing for the listener. I much prefer using "trans-identified male" instead of "transwoman" as the latter implies that they are a sort of woman, which they aren't. As an actual woman, it is NOT a courtesy to me to have to listen to man be referred to as "she"

@josephpublico2337

11 ай бұрын

Sometimes the specificity isn't really needed, or could be excluded by fairness, to avoid stirring up hatred for a particular community/type/race etc: "a black man attacked and raped a woman" would've been a common phrase before. Is it important that he was black? No. His skin colour is irrelevant and to state it causes prejudice. So is it important that he's a man? Well, not really either. The important thing is that someone was raped. In a news story, we of course need to give as much information as possible, but maybe we've got too used to giving only certain types of information and not others, which could be equally as important or irrelevant: "a long-haired and bearded heavy metal fan attacked and raped a pink-haired Britney Spears fan." We could make an outcry about long haired bearded people being stigmatised and say why on earth mention their musical tastes. None of it matters in relation to the crime committed. The same could be said for skin colour and therefore even sex.

@Joy-kc5xz

11 ай бұрын

@@josephpublico2337 Skin color would be important to mention if we were talking about a racially motivated crime such as a white supremacist attacking a black man. Skin color is irrelevant with regards to a sex crime. However, sex is _incredibly_ relevant when it comes to a sexual crime. It tells us the nature of the assault, the motivation behind it, and the potential power imbalances involved. In the same way, it's important to distinguish when an adult assaults another adult versus an adult assaulting a child. Males commit 99 percent of sexual crimes and the majority of violent crime If we're using neutral language like "person" to describe the perpetrator, it will be assumed it's a male anyway. Knowing the sex of perps and victims can help us recognize crime patterns and in doing so create better safeguarding and crime prevention strategies. Not all prejudice is bad. In fact, for women, knowing that men commit sexual violence against women can help us make better decisions with regard to our safety and precautions we take around men.

@TooCoolforCardi

7 ай бұрын

THIS. 💯💯 I agree.

@gamzecarsamba6273

4 ай бұрын

​@josephpublico2337 WTF are you blabbering about? Over 97% of sexual crimes are committed by MEN. Of course, it is important to say that it was a man. Saying that, 'she' raped her with 'her' penis is not only bizarre and stupid, but also an insult to all women. Why should we focus on the victims? We should focus on MEN and try to understand and prevent why some MEN commit such heinous acts.

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

​@@josephpublico2337You are wrong. Sex crimes are almost always committed by males (98% or something like that), most often with the victims being minors of either sex or adult females. As a woman I have the right to know pertinent information about crimes so that I can adjust my life accordingly to protect myself/reduce the risk of being an easy target. Race is also clearly a factor in crime statistics and as such is relevant information. When the sex is the perpetrator (and perhaps even also the victim) aren't included in reporting, people are going to make the wrong assumptions about what actually happened. "Person sexually assaulted in the women's toilets". If you don't report the sexes of the people involved, you'll think it's a woman who sexually attacked another woman, a crime so rare in civilian life that I can honestly say I've never read any such news report in all my life. The reality is that when something like that has happened, the perpetrator is undoubtedly going to have been a male, the victim most likely a female (of course it's possible the victim was also male but much less likely as most men don't go into women's toilets and a transvestic fetishist sexual predator is more likely to target women). So on top of the sex crime, the perpetrator also invaded what should have been a female-only space. This information about the sexes of the people involved is pertinent to understand what happened. This information is needed for me as a woman to look out for my own safety in public. You're trying to hide male sex crimes. Why?

I’ve come to the same position about what pronouns to use with transpeople that I have with using honorifics for religious people. I was raised Catholic and I was taught that we called priests "Father," and nuns were either "Sister or Mother" depending on their rank. When I was no longer a practicing Catholic, I stopped calling them by those titles. I got called out about it a few times, and my response was "you aren’t my “Father, Mother or Sister, and I won’t be calling you that and you can’t make me, so pick another title, or let’s go with first names.” But it takes a lot of courage to not play along, doesn't it.

Anybody grandly announces their pronouns I work out how to avoid them…..

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

Same. I wouldn't become friends with them, I would avoid all unnecessary contact with them if this was at work. I wouldn't hire them because you know they'll cause problems for your business and current staff.

@AnneAndersonFoxiepaws

6 күн бұрын

Me too, its a given that I won't be seeking out their company. I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want, until it encroaches on the safety and comfort of others.

Right there at the beginning where Maya is talking about HR notifying people to not use 'exclusionary language,' that's a big part of the problem right there. Language is exclusionary. By its nature, it has to be. Words have to have meaning or we lose the ability to communicate. We use words to share our thoughts. And if those words don't each one have an exclusive meaning, we can't communicate our thoughts. And before anybody hops in and says, "There have always been words that have more than one meaning," yes, that is true. But each meaning fits a particular context.

Incredibly important points made by Stephanie 33:10 regarding the distress this causes children who are not only being required to go against what they know to be true but also, in schools which keep a childs declared gender identity a secret from parents, requires them to lie to others parents, and their own as well. It lowers trust in the adults who require this of children. Great points about the intrusiveness and assumption that everyone is so focused on what sex they are as their identity.

What Helen calls "the pronoun police" are often just checking that someone knows the true sex of the person who is being referred to.

@barboglesby2162

3 ай бұрын

The "true" sex is the one the person was born with!

I'm with Maya. Using preferred pronouns is already billed as the "inclusive" thing to do, so not using them is considered hate speech, or at the very least, unkind. Therefore, those who use them make out so much harder for those who will not compromise with reality. It puts a target on those people's backs.

@renskev.470

11 ай бұрын

I started to watch the whole discussion because I read this comment by you and I wanted to see Maya say that, because I so wholeheartedly agree with it. But now I realise that this is *your* take on it, not Maya's. Which is unfortunate because I love your take and it's a great argument for why using preferred pronouns is not that an innocent thing to do: if using preferred pronouns (which are mostly the wrong, so not sexed, pronouns) is friendly then it follows that NOT using them is UNfriendly, and that puts us in a bind. So... great point by you!

@simfimpim

11 ай бұрын

@@renskev.470 Thank you for the compliment! So no, in this video, Maya didn't say what I wrote, but at the beginning of the video when they discuss whether they use preferred pronouns or not, Maya says she does not use them anymore. So I am with her in that sense! Hope this helps to explain why I said "I'm with Maya."

@renskev.470

11 ай бұрын

@@simfimpim I understand completely and I was really happy to hear that from Maya. I was also happy to hear from Helen that she (she didn't say that directly but that's my take from it) kind of regretted using pronouns of the desired sex after the 'transition' (whatever that may be) of the ppl whom she describes in her book.

Using female pronouns to describe men should be absolutely avoided, especially around children. When you train children to describe a man with female pronouns you are training them to ignore basic mammalian instincts that protect us from predators. Example: Shop manager to young woman reluctant to work the late shift says Alex will be working the same shift - "He can give you a lift home" is VERY different from "She can give you a lift home." Lying about what sex a person is can put vulnerable women and children in danger by getting them to let their guard down in situations where it may be unsafe for them to do so. Pushing back against the pronoun police is a child safeguarding issue. Also, if someone asks my pronouns I'll offer some combination of : "I don't tell other people what words to use" "because I don't have a cluster B personality disorder" and/or "Go with your gut. I won't be offended if somebody gets it wrong."

@josephpublico2337

11 ай бұрын

Well, if Alex is a butch lesbian the young woman might be more reluctant to go home with her (depending on her sexuality) than if it's Alex the little effeminate guy with the tank top and glasses. Male or female isn't really important in that example. I get your point, but you're kind of using the "all men are potential rapists" argument, which I quite object to (being a man). I also object to the idea that we're all potential child kidnappers. Women can be too, so it's dangerous to let children believe they'll be safe with someone just because they're a woman.

@LightSpell28

11 ай бұрын

@@josephpublico2337 what do you think about that piece of advice children get, "if we get separated from each other and you're lost, go ask a woman with a kid for help". it's not saying all women with kids are immediately trustworthy and all men are stranger danger, it's saying statistically it's less of a danger for a kid to go up to a woman and expose that they're separated from their guardian

@josephpublico2337

11 ай бұрын

@@LightSpell28 Good point. A quick google search (because I'm not exactly well versed in the subject) on kidnapping showed me that "stranger" kidnappings are very rare and mainly committed by men. Most kidnappings are perpetrated by family members, with the clear bias being towards fathers who haven't got custody. In such cases, the imbalance is quite easily explainable by the imbalance in fairness in divorce courts, who give custody mainly to mothers. So I'll of course concede that point, although you did specify going up to a woman with a child in your reply. I reckon going up to a man with a child is probably a pretty safe bet too. Whatever, that doesn't answer the point about work colleagues and who you share a car with...

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

​​@@josephpublico2337Almost all rapists are male, in the UK all rapists are male by definition because you need a penis to commit the crime of rape here. As any woman will tell you, almost all of our scary or genuinely predatory experiences will have been with males. Not all males, might be "only" 5% of males who harass, grope, kiss, assault and rape against the other person's will, but it'll almost always be a male who does this. Stop trying to convince us to not have our guard up.

@katansi

2 ай бұрын

@@josephpublico2337 You seem to have tried to imply several times that there is an equal risk of violence from men and women. Even if you're a man you have a higher risk of violence, including sexual assault, from another man. Stop doing the "not all men" crap. We all literally know not all rapists and murderers are men but if someone is going to be a rapist or murderer it's 10-100:1 that it's a man. It's not a coin toss in danger, even to men.

We live in a very selfish, narcissistic social media era, where pronouns are the new honorifics. They used to be words that had generally agreed rules that facilitated communication between people. Now, they complicate communication because they have become a personal thing. Other languages have gendered pronouns for things like trees, but that is not so difficult to follow, because oaks and palms do not have preferred pronouns for themselves as some people do.

Yes. I agree with Maya. Using preferred pronouns - is making for ‘less safety’. It’s the slippery slope to accepting gender ideology. I’d live with the momentary discomfort - if someone asked me my pronouns I’d probably say ‘no thank you’.

The idea of using 'she/her' for a man in drag never used to be an issue - no-one thought it was an acknowledgement of a metaphysical or biological truth about the person, until gender ideologues started insisting that a man who "identified as" a woman was actually a woman. Now the use of preferred pronouns feels like compelled speech, like a forced acknowledgement of the truth of gender ideology from those who simply don't believe in it. I think that's why there are many who would, 20 years ago, have happily called trans-identified men "she", absolutely refuse to do so now.

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

I am such a person. I had no issue calling transvestites she her when they were dressed up, almost two decades ago when I was a young adult. They were men who got off on dressing as their stereotypes for women. They did this on the weekend, for sexual pleasure, fun, to unwind, whatever. They didn't claim to be women. I was ok using she her because everyone knew they were just transvestites. These days people claim to be actual women, the likes of "India" Willoughby etc, and no, I don't go along with that. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I'm no longer giving an inch on any of this.

Anyone who refers to themselves as singular 'l' is ludicrous asking others to refer to them as plural ' they' A person is one person however much feminine or masculine they feel in whatever body they were born in. The only plural person's sharing parts of one body are conjoined twins.

(Sorry for the wall of text but nuanced social communication is complicated!) My response to pronoun requests is to play dumb, which is actually not playing at all but just honestly and gently questioning the whole concept in real time until people leave you alone. So what that looks like is: First you adopt a polite, warm and gentle tone, and, while smiling and with a curious expression on your face, ask “when you ask for pronouns, do you mean like my sex (and gesture up and down at your body) or do you mean like my gender identity?” 😊 and point at your head. Say it like you’re just trying to get this concept right (which you honestly are). Most people will be completely thrown off 😳 bc they’ve literally never thought through what they’re taking part in, but most will not be particularly threatened bc you’re framing it like an innocent question and not a statement of your view. You’re seeking understanding here. If they say “whatever you want” then you can just say “sex based pronouns are fine.” Or “I’m a woman/man” or “whatever you feel is best to call me 😁” etc. But if they say “gender identity 😡” and look threatened you can then say, in your sweetest manner possible “hmmm I don’t feel that I have a gender identity 🤔 so sex based pronouns are fine.” 😊 Usually you will not have to go that far. Mostly people will chuckle nervously and accept your sex-based pronouns (if they didn’t already accept your not answering pronouns in the first place) bc 99% of people really don’t know wtf a “gender identity” is supposed to mean themselves (even trans people), and bc it’s not appropriate in progressive circles to question how someone views themselves. Literally no one has ever said to me “yes you DO have a gender identity!” But if they did that would be easy bc then you can just say “hmm I don’t really understand what a gender identity is. 🤔 What do you mean/how do you define it?” 😊 And then watch them pee their pants…you can basically go ad infinitum with “what does that mean?” “You mean it’s x?” Etc. just gently questioning in good faith until their whole argument unravels and then they get mad at you in which case you just look politely befuddled 🤔and vaguely troubled that they’re upset 😕until they retreat. At this point (which I’ve only ever had to deal with online) people either do one of three things: 1. Retreat into the mist. 2. Courageously realize that they haven’t thought these concepts through and change their views or question you about your own opinion 3. Get screaming mad and try to socially harm you aka doxx you to employers/report you to HR/accuse you of genocide/send threats. The benefit of this approach is if you are reported/doxxed, the playing dumb usually protects you, bc you can’t really be punished for not understand what a gender identity is or feeling like you don’t have one. By playing dumb/innocent aka just being nice and questioning, you can basically completely avoid malicious and aggressive reactions. May seem a bit Machiavellian but really it’s more honest imo to do this than just go along unscrupulously with something illogical/socially harmful for the leverage it will get you at work/socially.

@lettersquash

11 ай бұрын

Great idea. I had another: something along the lines of, "I'm Kevin, and my preferred pronouns are cabulanintriculo / vartrigongogopinguspatula. I've not tried it, but can't wait for an opportunity. I expect they'll just call me Kevin, which will only be my preferred name for that meeting.

@justinludeman8424

4 ай бұрын

Excellent. This combines the Socratic approach and the Narcissist infuriating 'Smiling No'. 👌🏼

@chrisrageNJ

3 ай бұрын

You're still feeding into the delusion, I personally respond with "I will not play word games, I will call you by your name but I will not feed into your delusion, if you were born a man I will not call you a woman, and if you were born a woman I will not call you a man. I believe in truth and you're living a lie". If they have a problem with it they can piss off, I have no time for Marxist word games

@chrisrageNJ

3 ай бұрын

​@@lettersquashjust say "my pronouns are"king/your highness, and if you misgender me I will report you "... Hit them back with their own games

As a native of north America male and female are sacred concepts that require different rituals in daily life. Some tribes have puberty rites. When people started saying they had " dual spirits" and used "they/them" it was deeply offensive. But young people cut off from their tribes by the residential schools believed in this ideology of dual spirits thst anthropologists were teaching . The elders consider that there are only two genders,given to you before birth in a spiritual way, which connect you to all of creation and the Creator. Your gender determines your body shape and they way you think. However most tribes always recognized gay/ lesbian people and cross dressing, usually with specific rituals and occupations. This is not dual spirit as some claim.

I teach ESL...studied Linguistics. English has no gender and pronouns mark for the perceived biological sex of the person/thing spoken about. It is a human right and a right to our speech reflecting material reality that we express ourselves. Besides speaking in the third person is not up to the person being talked about.

@joane24

11 ай бұрын

You made a good point. If I don't perceive someone as another sex, why should I use the language in the way as if I did?

8:43 this might get addressed, but does Stella suppose if the messaging around pronouns and gender of today had been her environment as a child, would she have still developed this capacity to compartmentalize pronoun and sex categories? edit: stella and helen are two different people

'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. His heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him, the ease with which any Party intellectual would overthrow him in debate, the subtle arguments which he would not be able to understand, much less answer. And yet he was in the right! They were wrong and he was right. The obvious, the silly and the true had got to be defended. Truisms are true, hold on to that! The solid world exists, its laws do not change. Stones are hard, water is wet, objects unsupported fall towards the earth’s centre. With the feeling that he was speaking to O’Brien, and also that he was setting forth an important axiom, he wrote: Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows' . George Orwell 1984

I wish to identify as an OAP so I can claim the state pension.

Pronouns are based on whether you are a man or woman (i.e. Nouns), not whether you choose to adopt particular male/female stereotypes or whether you claim to feel like a man/woman.

I had the subtitles switched on. Helen said fucking pronoun police, and the subtitles wrote f***king! Ha! You Tube excluding the hearing 'impaired' ?!

So good! I absolutely adore Helen Joyce. Also was excited to hear a question from Colin Wright in the audience!

@AndyJarman

11 ай бұрын

Ironic since in Helen's book she goes the other way to such a degree I had to read it a few times in places to understand it.

@tessoftheterfervilles9469

11 ай бұрын

I also adore her, but disagree with her on this (possibly the only thing!)

@radicalcartoons2766

11 ай бұрын

And from Sue Evans!

Benjamin Boyce just dropped a Calmversation interview with a woman about women's prisons. Try as I may there were entire subjects I couldn't understand the meaning of because of the mental gymnastic this required. It was mainly due to the interviewee's respect for a certain post surgical trans woman she had received help from. Apart from the imoracticality, it's the implicit demand and imposition that I find most roiling.

Absolutely love the videos of this conference hope you do another conference, I can't wait for each one❤️.. I will definitely attend.

27:12 the speaker from the audience makes great points about control then states an aspect of being human is that we are always in a state of flux and evolving. While this true, regarding our age, our fashion sense, our careers, our relationships and our intellectual and emotional lives, one thing that remains static IS our SEX. Which is why it is so important to recognize that in our use of language should we have any hope of understanding one another.

Great discussion!!! Speaking about tu/vous. As a french native speaker, I can tell you that neo pronouns in french are already here: iel (s)/ielle(s), which is a mix of il(s)/elle(s). It has nothing to do with social distance, it's definitely about gender.

This is the first time I've tried to see a program on utube and it says it's not available, very strange almost as strange as saying men can get pregnant.

The use of preferred (or compulsory) pronouns are privileged/compelled demands (tyranny), not courtesies or expressions of kindness.

So refreshing to hear a group of adults discussing this topic freely, honestly, and jokingly, without the restraining fear of (real world) reprisal and (virtual) cancellation. There needs to be more of this, more often!

Thank you for all of your work exploring these ideas and conversations.

Fascinating conversation

Actually the austrian guy confused you plural = ihr with they= sie. Royals have been called Ihr not Sie. In German the formal you and plural you is "Sie/sie" which is actually the same word as she. So using they is not an option, because it would either be interpreted as she or you

Irish Minister for Justice, Helen McEntee said that refusing to use a person’s preferred pronouns is not illegal and that it will not be illegal under new Hate Crime legislation she is currently bringing through the Irish parliament.

"Captain Spanglepants". Absolutely brilliant. Get in touch with Marvel immediately!

There are tons of words I don’t like.

Kellie Jay Keen is right-- THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND YOUR CHILDREN ARE IN IT! And we've got five people sitting round a table talking about pronouns. It doesn't matter whats' more validating to them, whats' more comfortable to you, what you've gotten used to... calling MEN she and her is dangerous, on a multitude of fronts. I respect the hell out of you Maya (especially you for bringing a precedent-setting lawsuit) and Helen, but I still don't think you realize how late in the day it is.

When I was tutoring, at some point I stopped saying whether the subject of my story was male or female, black or white, short or tall etc, when it didn't have any relevance. So when the point was raised about the Finnish and Chinese languages not having sex distinctions it made me wonder why our language, and obviously so many others, have inbuilt these distinctions. So while I can guess the evolution of the English language, it's intriguing to me why the state and its branching institutions upheld the importance then to distinguish and now to obscure.

7:33 this must have been the funniest moment of this very day in the whole of Ireland!

@ruthtodd6022

11 ай бұрын

Definitely! I laugh-sprayed coffee all over my tablet.

Who really wants a position in an organisation that only promotes people who are prepared to kow tow to a cult?

I’d say…..”take a wild guess! I won’t be offended.” 😂

This jolly good middle-class pandering helped get us into this mess. Balls to pretending and confusing matters!

"I don't believe that the subject of conversation can dictate how it is referred to. This is the prerequisite of the speaker."

Bowing to the “he/her” crowd is social cowardice.

Regarding the debate around 16:00, I'd be curious what the panel thinks about the pronoun usage in the 2016-started novel series Terra Ignota, which is set several centuries in the future where cultural neoliberalism and wokeness has won (= the world is bloodless and genderless), and where everyone uses "they" pronouns -- except for certain 'rebels' that are so endeared to a man's masculinity or woman's femininity that they HAVE to use the "old" pronouns for them.

I generally address people as “you” or by the name they’ve given.

@martinwilliams9866

5 ай бұрын

So, a female lamb!

I never know whether to be thankful that I got out of the therapy business when I did, or to go back in. I just argue on forums instead and get called a nazi and even "subhuman". Not only that, my position is more moderate than Genspect's, as far as I can see. I think there are cases where gender transition is the best solution to someone's genuine dysphoria. The problem is that need has been hijacked and demanded as a right, and kids indoctrinated and inculcated into this insane cult. I don't have a problem with trans people individually at all, and I decide what pronouns I'm going to use for them. I have a problem with the trans politics, the ideology, and the demands, and the whiny bullshit about us trying to take away their human rights. Nope, we just think the old system of gendering people according to their sex worked, and you don't get to just change the culture by stealth and demands. The missed opportunity is to widen gender expression for both sexes, remove the pink fluffy and blue violent isles of the shops, teach boys to be kind and sensitive and girls to be strong and not obsess about their looks, let men wear dresses and women go out the house without makeup (they already wear trousers), but for people to stop lying about their sex and demanding we support them in that lie.

@josephpublico2337

11 ай бұрын

Yeah; get rid of gender altogether as an obsolete concept and just keep sex, as a medical necessity and partner-finding convenience. This should be allowed to happen without being compelled though and I think it probably will. I think young people may well develop gender neutral speech eventually, once we cut through all the bs of creating a whole spectrum, with ze zy zem etc. They and their exist already as a neutral singular and plural form.

"I respect other people's pronouns" The pronouns aren't... theirs! People don't (and shouldn't think they can) own other people's words, thoughts, or bodies! It is not the job of society to affirm everyone's subjective beliefs.

Okay when it comes to speaking about a medical patient wouldn’t it be reasonable to know the actual gender..? This is ridiculous

@baconsarny-geddon8298

7 ай бұрын

You mean "sex". Sex is a biological term, based on physical evidence. "Gender" is a left-wing pseudo-religious term, based on the magical power of wishing. EVERYONE has an "actual sex". NO-ONE has an "actual gender". The whole reason left-wing academics pushed so hard for the popularization of "gender", in the 90s/early 00's, was BECAUSE it's subjective and vague, and has no evidence-based definition (unlike sex, which has a strict, specific, objective biological definition).

@billmartins5545

3 ай бұрын

You mean sex? Gender isn't a medical term.

Excellent. Thanks for having these discussions

I love hearing my people talk. Wish I could have been there.

I’ve noticed it’s super hard to listen to media now, you hear them say woman and you have to dig in and do some mental gymnastics to make sense for yourself is it really a woman or is this a man, is this a dangerous situation or is this harmless… the fact it does impact safety means you can’t just ignore it you have to work out the truth

The problem is, what about misgendering people outside of the workplace and they find out about it. Does the management then have the right to discipline you for how you talk in other situations?

@radicalcartoons2766

11 ай бұрын

There have been plenty of people, men and women, who have been disciplined and sacked for what they've said on social media, so yes.

@richalderson6069

11 ай бұрын

@@radicalcartoons2766 That's wrong. But then, so much about this movement is morally wrong.

...and pronouns are not proper names. It's a different issue.

Great discussion…keep up the good work!

If other people don’t like the language someone uses, that’s not the speaker’s problem.

18:25 - Leslie Elliott of The Radical Center has a great answer to the question, 'what are your pronouns?...'I don't have any special requests'.

7:39 how does the pronoun discussion play out ¿as gaeilge? is gender agreement being rejiggered in the gaelacht à la mode de «iel, enceint•e•s, latin@s?

This is a brilliant conversation. It should have more views.

Yay for finnish! My silly little language has one thing going for it at the moment. Some young people do play with pronouns when they interact online and in english. But us finns often confuse pronouns in english anyway, and concept of misgendering has made it even more of a minefield. When speaking fast I can easily just sort of throw any pronoun. "My mother, he is a teacher" 😅

IMPORTANT: As an Irish person 'Did I miss the discussion, debate and VOTE in Ireland about whether to bring into law; GENDER IDEOLOGY, SELF ID, change of language to erase word WOMAN, and to use pronouns that feel like gaslighting to me?' Because living in Ireland I do not remember any discussion.. debate..nor VOTING regarding these MAJOR CHANGES tonour lives?! Can anyone please tell me when that VOTING WAS HELD?? Or was such a serious change in FORCED SPEECH brought in TOTALARTARIAN STYLE BY ONE PARTICULAR MINISTER OR BY ALL GOVERNMENT TOGETHER??? SURELY such a serious matter such as indoctrination CHILDREN in schools, puberty blockers, bodily mutilation, gaslighting a nation, SURELY SOMETHING THAT SERIOUS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN to a VOTE BY IRISH CITIZENS??!! So did I MISS THE VOTING for all this SOMEHOW..??!!

@jennybardoville5455

Ай бұрын

I don't know about the Irish ruling but your comment about gaslighting struck a chord, suggesting the ideology has developed a narcissistic streak or was developed by a narcissistic demand.

While we're all agreeing with each other (and the speakers) here in the comments section... how do we actually get anything to change? How to do begin to reverse this insanity in workplaces? in courts of law? and most importantly, in schools?

@jennybardoville5455

Ай бұрын

I liked what the employee done at work by taking a secret ballot. Questioning authority, top down instructions, when we know it is inappropriate or plain wrong, takes courage.

I think the next time someone asks me my pronouns, I'll respond, "me, myself, and I."

"Don't call me you" Psychosis is like drowning in a sea of bad (or dead?) metaphors. I'm sure alot of writers would agree with that. Also, I've noticed that in some of the presentations on gender ideology, not so much genspect the discourse is an exercise in how to speak and write in ways that resist meta analysis. That's not the goal of therapy or even healthy. It's common in academia. I don't want to be an open book, but it's like teaching a difference between "Tucker Carlson is a little Napoleon" and "Tucker Carlson is acting like a little Napoleon" On the surface there are differences, but the rhetorical message that resists meta analysis is "Tucker Carlson is a dick" or that "Tucker Carlson is a great leader" if you're a conservative 🥺

@davidsprouse151

10 ай бұрын

One misdirection might be a word problem in math that is cis normative. The problem is about logic not about gender politics. Logic isn't cis normative. One could write dissertations on that I suppose. It's all misdirection.

Persian has 'u' for both she and he. They don't have gender at all in the language. There is no way to express feminine and masculine.

Great channel! Genspect is important and groundbreaking.

Alasdair has legs too, just like Benjamin! ❤

“I use pronouns according to how I perceive you to be, and I believe in telling the truth. I’ll call you “you,” and if I’m talking about you I’ll call you he or she as appropriate to what your body tells my body."

Changing our language has an impact on our access to our own history. The basic structures of English have been in place for over a 1000 years. We are NOT Finnish or Japanese!

What a refreshing and insightful talk on this frustrating and controlling yet inherently boring topic. At 28:00, i love what was being said about the language being controlling and how pronoun folks believe that our using their prefer pronouns is somehow fixing their identity. It's kind of sad that these people are seemingly so dependent on what others really think.

This younger generation has truly lost the plot. It is not societies problem that we have people who suffer from an identity crises. We should there for not be expected to change what has never been an issue in the first place. I am ok being referred to as Mr. or by my name. I am comfortable in addressing others by their title also, namely Mss, Mrs, Mr or by their name. It is rather simple. If it is a person i am confronted with that has no clue as to what they are, then i will referr to their name. I will however refuse being dictated to in addressing such challenged people in what is commonly regarded strange and indeed rather weird.

Everyone hates the pronoun- if they ask what’s your pronoun at school or workplace(HR depts need to be gutted) - ask what’s your name not participating in this game…..

I love you Helen!!!!keeping speaking about this!!!!

8:40 small, yappy, bitey dogs is a good metaphor!

Because of this issue I am strongly considering homeschooling my children for the first time ever. I am not religious and have never felt the need to homeschool for any other reason. But I do not want my children subjected to this ideology or any other.

I don’t care about pronouns or any language other people don’t like. Language is a process. It’s not a thing that can be controlled or reigned in.

Such a good conversation. My thoughts are that we use 3rd person pronouns when talking ABOUT people. So let’s stop talking about people or simply use their name over and over again.

My attitude towards pronouns switched on the day I first heard of plans to force people to use people's preferred pronouns. For me, that's the equivalent of forcing Winston Smith to say that 2+2=5.

Great topic thank you for posting. I love Mr. Gunn

Thank you all.

Pronouns, well there's another way to express your sentiments. You do not have to refer to a biological male as she. Just refer to that person as a transgender. Would they really have a problem with that?

@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559

11 ай бұрын

Some of them now take offence at that - they insist that they're 'women', not 'trans women'. If that doesn't show what a slippery slope pronoun dishonesty is, then what does?