Makes Cowboy Beebop reference Doesn't put in "See you later, Space Cowboy" at the end

@conormurphy4328

5 жыл бұрын

8:45 kinda does spikes gun point

@HandmadeGoose97

5 жыл бұрын

@@conormurphy4328 kind of a stretch, he's pointing to his double unfortunately

@PandiiMan

5 жыл бұрын

nor did he get everybody and the stuff together!... shame

At E3 I saw a game called Griftlands, which is deckbuilding combat/social encounter game. Applying this to non-combat situations seems like a pretty cool step forward, and a neat way of doing dialogue. Imagine a noir detective game where your card "mana" is your patience and eventually you default to intimidation/violence which usually doesn't work nearly as well.

@TheRatedOniChannel

5 жыл бұрын

Wait, like the world of Sunless Sea? I remember EC talking about how 'social interactions' are a part of that game, so a little like that?

@nv_johan8711

5 жыл бұрын

Sounds neat

@revimfadli4666

3 жыл бұрын

I can already imagine multiple characters with different play/investigation styles... And the combinatorial explosion of having two detectives work together, like Monster Train's alliance system

I absolutely love "slay the spire" and I waited the entire video just to hear it being mentioned

@rockinmoshin

5 жыл бұрын

Saaaaame

How was "let's jam" not used for a game jam episode?

@17-MASY

5 жыл бұрын

00:54 duelists of the roses

"Didst thou conjure a multitude of monsters in a single turn?" "Aye, what of it?" "Such an action is forbidden by yon rules!" "Thrice-damn the rules, I possess great wealth!"

@codebracker

5 жыл бұрын

Thoust are a second grade player with thine third grade deck! -eth!

2:15 "...and selling packs of them." And that is how Lootboxes were invented!

@BaynJess

5 жыл бұрын

AKA Lootcrate

@MikaelKKarlsson

5 жыл бұрын

The angels wept.

@christopherg2347

5 жыл бұрын

@Cross Van Dust Nobody wanted them. Except the people that bought them.

@insaincaldo

5 жыл бұрын

Did you have to remind 90's kids that Gogo's and Magic inadvertently created this hell.

@nathanbrown8680

5 жыл бұрын

And somehow, this "gambling" marketed to children didn't result in all of the social ills y'all love attributing to something even less like real gambling. Physical cards you can theoretically cash out on for real currency if you find someone who wants them enough. Not so much in game skins.

In the beginning, there were dice. - And perfection was achieved early!

@Lucarioguild7

5 жыл бұрын

Praise RNGsus

If anyone is confused by the terms Roguelike = A game genre consisting of dungeon crawling, where these dungeons or paths are being procedurally generated, aka randomly Deckbuilders = A card game genre where building your deck is part of the gameplay

@agilemind6241

5 жыл бұрын

Roguelike is more than just that, they also let you have only one shot at any particular dungeon (no loading when you die) and your character increases in power primarily through acquiring more powerful loot.

@miamackenzie9946

5 жыл бұрын

It’s also a turn based kind of game, like dnd married video games and had the beautiful baby: rogue likes

@xekon14

5 жыл бұрын

Agilemind Unlocking more stuff to get more powerful over is more roguelite, whilst unlocking the stuff but still having the same experience as before but with new stuff is more like a roguelike

@legendarytat8278

4 жыл бұрын

@@xekon14 It's the opposite. Roguelites are when there isn't anything to unlock that will affect the playthrough, while roguelites are the opposite

@legendarytat8278

4 жыл бұрын

@@miamackenzie9946 Roguelikes does not have to be turn based, take The Binding of Isaac as example.

*"Okay 3..2..1 let's Jam"* I was expecting the Sax drop lol

@dubbingsync

5 жыл бұрын

Anyone who got the reference did as well.

@MaJuV

5 жыл бұрын

Been constantly humming Tank throughout the episode. Had to rewatch this, because I forgot to listen to the actual video at times. :-D

How about Hand of Fate? I believe it's older than Slay the Spire, and already has deck-building and rogue-like elements.

@thundersheild926

5 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say its actual gameplay is focused on cards. They more provide the backdrop and theme rather than the actual combat or minigames.

@julianroth326

5 жыл бұрын

@@thundersheild926 gameplay doesn't have to be focused on playing with actual cards to be a deck building game. "cards" are just a set of mechanics for digital game designers. Hand of Fate is a rogue like deck builder if I've ever seen one.

@revimfadli4666

3 жыл бұрын

@@julianroth326 even Dicey Dungeons is classified as roguelike deckbuilder, due to the way pre-rolled/input randomness dice + equipments you place them into somewhat work like cards

Faeria is a criminally underrated game. They are an extremely customer friendly company.

@Luuu90

5 жыл бұрын

this

I think you mean: Richard Garfield, PhD.

@ashra8281

5 жыл бұрын

A maths student? He invited magic when he was a student didn't he

@xekon14

5 жыл бұрын

Ashra He was a professor I believe

One of the other factors on Magic coming about was at the time WotC was a RPG publisher with some financial issues. Slay the Spire was predated by Hand of Fate by a year and a half.

@gilburtfilburt8779

5 жыл бұрын

Is that a comstar insignia

@revimfadli4666

3 жыл бұрын

And by Dream Quest even earlier

Surprised that Hand of Fate was not mentioned. thats more of a literal rougelike cardgame. its mechanics dont lend itself to deck building, but its still an interesting take on cards and dungeoning.

0:55 "Hold, knave! Hast thou performed a plethora of actions within a single turn's space?" "Mayhaps this is so, sirrah, though I fail to perceive thy concern." "The concern is that these actions are contravening this pastime's regulations!" "The regulations shall have a multitude of carnal acts performed upon them, for lo, I am flush with wealth and currency!"

@SpektralJo

5 жыл бұрын

Or he is just paying Storm

Sad to see no mention of Hand of Fate. It blew my mind back in 2015 as a dungeon crawler rogue-like deckbuilder. Shuffling fights into the next dungeon to reap their rewards or even adding needlessly risky events to unlock the next card in its storyline changed how I thought about these building games, and Slay the Spire was still yet to come.

I like the bebop reference, and the yugioh reference and all other references.

@Obzerver

5 жыл бұрын

I didn't get a single one and didn't like any of them

@nv_johan8711

5 жыл бұрын

@@Obzerver :/

@mieruhochun

5 жыл бұрын

Yugioh reference? Where?

5 жыл бұрын

Sam Ajami 00:56 seconds

@Yinyanyeow

5 жыл бұрын

Surprised no one mentioned Yamcha's 'appearance.'

There is a lack of megaman battlenetwork. Breaks my heart a little.

@hostiusasinhostilityhostil7853

5 жыл бұрын

I know, right? One of the only deck-based games I could get into.

@revimfadli4666

3 жыл бұрын

One Step From Eden really shouldn't be the only successor

We cover the evolution and history of cards as games, especially their rapidly increasing complexity in the last 30 years from Magic: The Gathering, to Hearthstone, and more! What card games have you recently played and enjoyed that we didn't mention in this video?

@ballisticdoggy3960

5 жыл бұрын

More history plz

@theoneandonlydetraebean8286

5 жыл бұрын

Nice yugioh reference extra credits.

@kaiserinjacky

5 жыл бұрын

Extra Credits YUGIOH ITS FAAAST

@Febz

5 жыл бұрын

The card game Fairy Tale is a great distillation of drafting itself as a game. 7 Cities is a pretty good one, too.

@Walter.Kolczynski

5 жыл бұрын

As a lapsed Magic player who played Shandalar and MTGO heavily and is now heavy into hobby board games, this is excellent.

Renaissance Yugi and Kaiba at 0:56 was a combination I never knew I needed.

@takatamiyagawa5688

5 жыл бұрын

...yeah Duelists of the Roses, on PS2, had some kindof interesting rules, playing on a large grid, but could get tedious after a while.

Whaaaat!? Card games weren't invented in ancient Egypt!? I call foul on that!

@gabeskai

5 жыл бұрын

They're just wishing they could sit in the pharoah's throne

This is totally up my alley. I volunteered to help out with a new card game last year and now I've just been offered a stipend for future work.

'A whole new world - for cards' Did anyone feel anything? Im afraid my eyes rolled so hard I caused an earthquake somewhere

@leaf7392

5 жыл бұрын

Garrett Thacher I kinda cringed and laughed at the same time lol

@NeroThacher

5 жыл бұрын

@@leaf7392 so did my bones

@leaf7392

5 жыл бұрын

Garrett Thacher don't think I've ever cringed because something was cringy but hilarious at the same time lol

@malcovich_games

5 жыл бұрын

Did the rolling happen before or after you don't dare closing them?

@malcovich_games

5 жыл бұрын

Did the rolling happen before or after you don't dare close your eyes?

7:16 Yes Gabe we know you wanted the money but artifact was a failure

@JoonasSariola

5 жыл бұрын

Gabe needs to learn what number comes after 2, not how to convert BR and gambling to games Valve has already created

It is actually weird, I was working on a rogue-like deck builder in early 2013 but when I did physical playtests it was slow and clunky. Then Hearthstone was released and I saw how fast a computer could calculate stuff and make it play fun. Never went back to it though since I was busy with other projects. Then I see "Slay the Spire" which was SUPER similar to what I was doing (much more streamlined though). * sigh * I always just imagine what could have been. Might revisit my old prototype someday as I haven't seen anything exactly the same (it added cards based on equipment, a la Card Hunter, but also based on your species + class + skill tree + other things). Will probably take a look at it again once I finish my thesis work on a digital hybrid board game adaptation of Auto Chess. =)

the really interesting aspect of cards is that they can contain a limited amount of rules or mechanic, making them similar to menu options in a JRPG, but with the randomness and collectible aspect, can make it al much more juicy than menu driven turn based combat. Even just the action of shuffling and drawing the cards is kinetically much more satisfying than anything done through traditional menus.

I love hearing about the success of slay the spire because the creators inspire me as an amateur game creator to learn and innovate in a genre that would seem to difficult to tackle as an indie game company. Creating a space for their game to exist, to separate itself from hearthstone, and to have started just between friends is what a lot of creators only dream of.

Utterly disappointed that at no point in this was Hand of Fate, its sequel, or Guild of Dungeoneering was mentioned.

Two other interesting examples: - Megaman battle network - One step from eden (especially) You build a deck as you play. OSFE in particular is a roguelike with permadeath. Both introduce the deckbuilding concept digitally with action elements.

6:13 They killed Yamcha!

@WardOfSouls

5 жыл бұрын

You mean Yamcha got Yamcha'd!

Yay! Shandalar got mentioned. Loved that game, even though, I barely understood the rules of magic back then.

The Microprose Magic game is SO GOOD! Played it as a kid, and to this day, I've never played a game quite like it. So many combos, so many ways to build your deck. I'd buy a Steam or GoG release in a heartbeat.

Wow, an actual acknowledgement that Robo Rally existed! I'm impressed! Ask any long-time tabletop player what their favorite games are, and ne of the top choices (usually #1 or #2) is going to be an older game they have a nostalgic connection to despite knowing all of its flaws just as well as they know its strengths. For me, Robo Rally is that game. Dominion may be the game I play the most and catch myself thinking about when idle, but Twonky on the others have a special place for me.

7:45 minutes waiting for you to say the words and then I'm like HELL YEAH, SLAY THE SPIRE!

Everyone: E3! So many *electronic* games! EC: ...Cards?

You should go full Bebop more often that show is amazing. Also love the reference to Duelist of the Roses.

Anyone remember BattleForge? It was an RTS/CCG hybrid: where rather than building a base, you had a hand of cards you used to summon units onto the battlefield which you then controlled in a traditional starcraft-esque RTS. I got a free copy with a PC I bought a while back, I never played much of it, but it seemed like a neat idea.

I really enjoy these “history of...” for game genres, like with what you have done here and with your earlier videos on Western and Japanese RPGs.

Hand of fate was my introduction

i think Idea & Form deserves some credit for recently marrying the deckbuilder to traditional jrpg-esque combat in an incredibly elegant way; (see Steamworld Quest: Hand of Gilgamech)

@maximeteppe7627

5 жыл бұрын

what would you say is the main difference with Slay the spyre, which could also be said to have a blend of those two elements?

Why did you not touch on to the REAL deckbuilders like Star Realm, or Ascension? They are Card base, and also got a computer adaptation, and they are focused on either PvP rather than PvE like slay the spire. It is a different take on it because both of you have access to the same starting point and information. But the most important difference to Slay the Spire is that for slay the spire you get new cards and build your deck mostly in between enemies.

@ConManAU

5 жыл бұрын

To be fair, Dominion is the real original tabletop deck builder from which Ascension and Star Realms originated, although admittedly it's had many hiccups with its electronic implementation.

I've been back and forth on EC since the host change, but this episode is classic EC through and through. Well done team! This is great. Definitely going to check out Roguebook

@zyaicob

5 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the complete opposite. This episode is stylistically very different from classic EC and the storytelling format seems to have changed. The whole Zoey bit is the most obvious difference, and Matt is way less mellow than Dan Prime was and still is

I knew it! Yu-Gi-Oh! has been around since the Renaissance!

@Anastas1786

5 жыл бұрын

Yu-Gi-Oh! has been around since _Ancient Egypt._ Didn't you watch the documentary of the same name?

@anginelyboscan1895

3 жыл бұрын

@@Anastas1786 lol

Remember, TCG's are physical lootboxes that came out long before we coined the term "lootbox."

Nitpick: The video uses XCOM logo, when it should use the Microprose-published original X-COM logo

"Thats a Spring Flourish not a shuffle"😹

My favorite deck building game is Evolution. Ive never seen anything so masterfully envelop how evolution works, along with a genuinely competitive and fun game.

6:22 This is the best picture ever made in the history of mankind

Hi, I really love your channel, you probably won’t see this, just know you guys are awesome though!

Ok this was REALLY cool. Seeing a timeline that I actually was a part of was awesome! I loved that when you got to magic I was like ya I play that its pretty cool that I play such an influential game and I never really thought about it or knew just how big of a deal it was. But when we got to slay the spire and I was like I played that early access. I had no idea that it was the first deck building rogue-like it was just a fun game I played a ton of. Please do more "how we got here" pieces. Another idea might be crypt of the necro dancer (rogue-like rhythm rpg) or Hand of Fate which is the culmination of too many game types for me to list. It's cool to see the pedigree of influences on a game. also I definitely plan on checking out that kick starter.

I was hoping Chaotic would be more of historical note but I guess its still that beloved under-rated card game.

@ShadowEclipex

5 жыл бұрын

I just commented about that too. XD Did you hear that the franchise is coming back?

@camerongrow6426

5 жыл бұрын

@@ShadowEclipexYeah, I did. I'm more excited then I ever thought I would be!

Theres this... CCG adjacent game that I always come back to, at least once a year. Card Hunter, a parody of DND, it's a free game where you assemble a team of 3 characters, and fight on DND like game boards, but using a drawn hand of cards to do so. But it's one step removed from CCGs as your not collecting cards, but equipment that gives each character different cards. I think it's a neat little game worth checking out, given that it's free to play.

Bring back Shandalar! Microprose! Something!

Im glad to see this channel grow and become more populor over the years and even with the transition of new wrtiters and host still keep its charming style of art and learning

How have I never heard of Faeria, Slay the Spire, or Roguebook!? Rougelike Deckbuilders are among my favorite genres! I sometimes sign into Hearthstone just to play the rogue single player games.

Remember, withoutplaying cards, there won't be Nintendo, so yeah, cards and all that are important, which is anamazing evolution. Does Nintendo have a deckbuilder game?

@ConManAU

5 жыл бұрын

Well, there's Pokemon, one of the few CCGs (or TCGs) to survive the 90s other than Magic. Apparently they also tried a Donkey Kong game, and recently some kind of Fire Emblem game too?

“Wow, we went full _Bebop_ there for a second.” _Always_ go full _Bebop_ my dude.

Roguelike from Abrakam is a very cool game, also Faeria (yo can see ther what we can move)

Pox Nora was pretty cool. I quite liked playing it many years back. Thanks for reminding me, got a small hit of Nostalgia :)

I would guess that the next step in CCG is to focus on the stories that emerge from each duel between two or more opponents. Example - in Android Netrunner you have factions and the gameplay creates a story of a conflict and how it was resolved. Whom do you root for and why? All of this is shown when you play. There is a board game called "Once Upon a Time", where you tell a fairy tale together, and have to goad your opponents into saying specific things, in order to play cards from your hand and hijack the story, leading to your preferred ending. I would love to see a CCG of a Rashomon-style story, where each player tells a part of the collective story through play - but they only tell it from THEIR perspective, and there can be only ONE true ending. Cards can be used as flashbacks, foreshadowing, etc.

"Don't you dare close your eyes" LOLOL fuck your hilarious and well-executed jokes

Woohoo Gloomhaven shout out! If anyone here is even moderately interested in it I highly suggest watching a review or a scenario 1 play through. It has a staggering amount of content and the strategy dungeon crawl mechanics are done excellently.

Another early 2004 card battle videogame was Phantasy Star Episode 3: C.A.R.D. Revolution, card systems in games were really popular around that time.

After Artifact from Dota kinda flopped steam picked up the core design to AutoChess and is currently in alpha. Its not likely a deck game, but you build hands of randomly assigned cards that are placed in turns then during battle phase fulfill its combat mechanic automatically. Each 'monster' as race and class bonuses that are amplified by the # of same race or class. Items can drop that are then equipped to monsters. All via the lense of Dota2. This is the first card-type game I have gotten excited about since I was in elementary school..

Fun thing about playing cards: they were at first just meant to hide Tarot cards, since they were illegal at the time. At some point people started to play games with them.

One of my favourite deck building games was baton kaitos : eternal wings and the lost ocean. Long name aside. It mixed rpg elements and card game battle mechanics in a way that I haven't seen to much. It was a fun rpg even if your could easily fucked over if you didn't explore enough to find the hidden cards on each of the floating islands.

0:20 and this , is why I started the video 20 minutes ago and now have "learned" a bunch of card tricks, after looking up a spring flourish. and then 10 more minutes later listening to the songs from cowboy bepop-again.

Omg is that Renaissance Yugi and Kaiba? XD

I really love y'all drawing memes in your art style. From the double Spider-Man to dead Yamcha.

Started watching and I'm just thinking to myself, "They better mention slay the spire. As far as I'm concerned, it's the pinnacle of the genre" (for now of course.. but that's a very *very* high bar)

Honestly? I feel like it's worth a tinnnny sub note at least that YGO and Pokemon evolved, existed, and primed nearly an entire generation of kids to think about and interact with TCG's and deck building as a concept. By themselves they weren't spectacularly relevant to the evolution of deck builder rougelikes, but DAMN did they do the heavy lifting of creating familiarity with deck building games for the exact generation that would be 20 somethings when Slay the Spire hit the scene.

@4:47 Fun facts from someone who was invited into the Alpha for being an active community leader of the MTG Interactive Encyclopedia online scene. MTGO was made by Leaping Lizards who did an incredible job but WOTC in their superior bean counting business savvy decided to bring development and updates in house once Leaping Lizards finished it, and THATS when the product turned to a clunky pile of crap. Leaping Lizards loved the product and did an absolute killer job making it, and sadly went out of business. (possibly due to the amount of extra hours put into MTGO in hopes of being offered a contract to continue working on it post launch??) But don't fret their Founder and probably some of their best talent went on to work at Valve. www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Interactive-Encyclopedia-PC/dp/B00002EIWU MTG IE also had online play, but their product was so flawed you had to download a 3rd party client to connect to other players via IP. Unlike MTGO however you could play with any card, there was no collecting or trading. Of course they killed updating MTG IE once MTGO got closer to launch.

Extra History has taken over all parts of Extra Credits! It's all good though, this was a fun video.

I guess faeria paid for it, but there have been a lot of card games in the online CCG genre. Infinity wars, HEX, Spellweaver, Sol forge, dulyst. Fuck, minion master is recent and hugely innovative.

When people talk about deck building games somehow Guild of Dungeoneering is always left out. It was out two years before slay the spire, but it is very much a roguelike deckbuilding game.

Inscryption did a good job subverting my associations with the genre. I kinda want more of that.

7:44 slay the spire is really great. I agree though that there is an oppertunity to build on the model; to do a Half-Life/ Halo to Slay the Spire's Doom, as there is just so much rooom for more complexity. great vid.

Two things: 1) You have too much fun with this, and I'm glad for you. It's a taaaaad much here and there, but oh well. 2) I'm glad for this video because I love Slay the Spire. I have enough hours and wins to justify getting a whole lot of mods and enjoying them too. My brother is way past me because he's like ascension 15 - no mods. Whew

it feels pretty cool that i've actually played several of these card games and experienced the development this video talks about first hand :)

Magic Arena:"Am I a Joke to You?"

I would love more history-style episodes like this

Slay the Spire is amazing Heroes Realm is also worth every cent (physical deckbuilding game)

@Eufratbre

5 жыл бұрын

It's Hero Realms ( a successor to Star Realms and essentially the same game with different flavor)

This feels amazing, because I'm friends with one of the artists who worked on Slay the Spire. :)

@brucebrenneise430

5 жыл бұрын

*Fist bump*

fun to see I played all the mentioned released games out there except dream quest in this story :)

But I thought Chess was older than cards

I've got high hopes for Thea:2 The shattering as a single player game with deckbuilding elements but which has like some actual story/game in there too..

I love cards in games ever sense growing up with yugioh and playing games like Battle Network back in the day that used cards to determine player action. I’m glad that card based video games are seeing a resurgence.

i don't remember the name but there was a kickstarter game that is a roguelike cardgame mixed with megaman battle network battle system and the ability to make choices like killing or sparing bosses. Also, checkout steamworld quest if you like cardgame systems in an rpg.

@mauriceraat2781

5 жыл бұрын

It's called One Step From Eden

This episode of Extra History was nice

I think this could be an interesting idea for a new series (granted on top of dozens of other series). But something exploring the history of genres. Could be a brief miniseries, but I'd be all behind it

00:26 cowboy Bebop so cool

Uh, chain of memories. 2004. Cards that represent your skills in combat and are collected over the course of the game. Why no recognition of this? Two years before PoxNora

@ZombieBarioth

5 жыл бұрын

As in Kingdom Hearts? Yeah, other kind of deck building games kinda flew under the radar here. No Lost Kingdoms? Baten Kaitos? No mention of any of the Yu-Gi-Oh games besides a nod to Duelist of the Roses? This was very much a western perspective on card games. Card game/RPG hybrids aren't really all that new, they just weren't very that popular to say the least.

I recently started playing Dream Quest, and I can see how it took off. It's the best free game I've ever played.

Why does no one ever speak of Hand of Fate, it's not revolutionary but I find it's a neat take on the deckbuilding adventure game

I can just hear the saxaphone playing. BA-DA DA-DA DA-DA DA-DA BA-DAAAAAa Hearthstone is the evolution of Magic because it takes away some of the more toxic aspects that I felt came from socializing with magic the gathering players. I just do not enjoy the environment nor how stressed out I felt while playing Magic. It was never about the game, it was about not letting my opponent psychologically dominate me and that is not what I signed up for, I felt. So I saw that Hearthstone didn't have the same social environment and I appreciated that. I know the game is not as 'complicated' as Magic however I really enjoy it and it does more for me than magic does. I think if Magic the gatherings online mode could avoid chat, then it would work for me. I haven't played Magic Arena in awhile though and if there is a way to mute other players, I may give it a shot.

Didn't wizards of the coast own pokemon for a while?

@gustavowadaslopes2479

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think so. They have kaijudo and could have some direct influence on pokemon, but that was always from the pokemon company as far as I remember

@ShadowEclipex

5 жыл бұрын

The did a collaboration with Pokemon for a sort of D&D light game. And Wizards did have distribution rights for awhile, but they never really owned the card game itself.

@ShadowEclipex

5 жыл бұрын

@@gustavowadaslopes2479 Kaijudo is also the reboot of the Duel Masters card game from the 90s.

No love for Card Hunter ? Not a roguelike, but it combined deck building and rpg elements in a interesting way long before Faeria or Slay the Spire. Try it if you haven't already.

What about tiles? Dominos/Mahjong/etc? For that matter, games with boards were advancements in gaming as well. Go/Checkers/chess/etc.

Nice yugioh reference extra credits.