never get rid of the driver override, even with the software. sometimes situations occur, things break, malfunction, and you still need the ability to override.

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

I disagree. Human factors will destroy equipment. You cannot allow humans to override safeties

@dans_Learning_Curve

9 ай бұрын

@@brucebaxter6923 everything needs to be taken into consideration. We don't want to dumb down things too much for drivers to loose or not have hands on skills! We saw this with the 737 MAX airliner! Everything works well when things are working. When things hit the fan is when experience is required! When Sully landed his aircraft in the Hudson river because he lost both engines because of birds, it was his years of flight time and glider experience that saved everyone on board!

@SeanHarlow

9 ай бұрын

The correct answer is to have overrides, but ensure that using the override is NEVER more convenient than doing it the "right way". If you are using the override it should be because it was absolutely required. It should also be auditable, so if it's being used it's possible to determine why and either the automation or the process can be adjusted to not require overriding. Basically the important part is to prevent people from getting in the habit of overriding, normalizing deviance from how the systems are designed to work.

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

@@SeanHarlow I see you have never worked in automation.

@diamondflaw

9 ай бұрын

@@brucebaxter6923 Sarcasm? You’re skirting Poe’s Law so I can’t quite tell.

I know there's a TON of cool stuff discussed in the video but I latched onto the idea of the trailers being E-axle equipped. Literally the potential for 18 wheel drive

@boxr_4214

9 ай бұрын

considering that canadian logging trucks are often tri-drive, and you might have 3 or 4 trailer axles, we could be seeing much more than just 18 wheel drive.

@jasonwilliams8016

9 ай бұрын

​@@boxr_4214not many 18 wheelers anymore in BC at all. Either triple/triple, tandem/triple or trains lol

@johnwenzel2003

9 ай бұрын

Better to think of it as 'all wheel drive' if you power the steer axel(s). An 8x8 tractor with a 3 axel trailer would be cool as hell if it was needed for the job.

@oldscoolcooldiecast1879

9 ай бұрын

Definitely be a plus

@sheldongoossen9771

9 ай бұрын

Lot of added weight tho. So it would be a small application

How does it feel to know you guys are making history right now! One day kids in classrooms will be taught about how important this company was to the existence of a cleaner industry!

@ridestreet20

9 ай бұрын

Um, actually these guys are making the future.

@francomtz7115

9 ай бұрын

Cleaner energy mining all over the world using cheap labor from other countries.

@michaeldail247

9 ай бұрын

@@ridestreet20 I don't think you read my comment correctly. Either that or English is not your first language.

@michaeldail247

9 ай бұрын

@@francomtz7115 and the fact of the matter is is that they are making it extremely cheap for a owner operator in this industry. Which means yes the operator could charge less which means that they could run other operators out of the area and get that work for themselves and still make good profit. All while being less polluting

Well this went from cool to insane in about 11 min. This tech is going to be insane.

@dans_Learning_Curve

9 ай бұрын

*Yes! You are correct!*

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

Yep

@dans_Learning_Curve

9 ай бұрын

How about 0-100 MPH/KPH in 60 seconds!!!

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

@@dans_Learning_Curve What do you mean?

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

@@dans_Learning_Curve Elsa do it in 5 sec empty and 20 sec loaded

I wanna save this video for the future when all the topics of this conversation actually meet reality and just watch it again with pure joy. Thank you for driving progress in such a creative way!

@dans_Learning_Curve

9 ай бұрын

Great idea!

@EdisonMotors

9 ай бұрын

I hope it works that way. I'm sure we'll look back on some videos impressed how well we pulled it off, and I'm sure we'll look back on other videos and have to eat our words - Chace

This conversation definitely helped put range anxiety in better focus, cleared up the fuzzy estimations about energy usage and requirements, and made it clear to me that you guys have a great vision for what trucking needs to be.

This is such a fun conversation! Everyone's beaming with excitement!!

@dans_Learning_Curve

9 ай бұрын

I know, right 👍!

Never having to smell diesel and Def on lunch break would be wonderful. Also getting a full 30 minute break and not counting the time towards fueling as part of your break.

What a great discussion. Happy to see this project materialize in real time. Keep it up guys!

I’m a maintenance mechanic at a factory and have no use at all for one of these trucks but god damn I want one. You need to make a pickup truck with the same mindset of reliability and repairability

You could also stage your solar generator units at load and/or unload points to add battery energy while loading or unloading. Also, you could stage gangs of your solar generators bypassing paying for the grid, if it's not open to the public it could circumvent legal problems with the power companies. For fleets you could have interchangable battery packs to reduce down time.

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

Close, the solar stations have Battery storage and a fast charger

@joshuacheung6518

9 ай бұрын

My question though is how much time when loading and unloading is stationary? And at the same point?

@gdhone2371

9 ай бұрын

@@joshuacheung6518 Valid points. I believe loading landings are moved as little as possible as long as they can efficiently get the logs there, electric equipment bringing logs in may extend that range, perhaps also using Edison solar as they are portable. The greatest advantage would be at the mill side for fully electric trucks, or as was talked about break areas. What drove my thinking was using Edison solar instead of paying for the grid. Just kind of thinking out loud.

@PiersDJackson

9 ай бұрын

@gdhone2371 with regards to interchangeable battery packs "Janus Electric Ltd" are currently developing along a similar modelling system in Newcastle, Australia... at the moment it's retrofitting to existing trucks (on road. The current operation involves a forklift exchanging the battery packs with a human operating, the plan is for the "Driver" to (as an example): 1 - drop his trailer at the dock; 2 - park the truck at the exchange site, and walk away; 3 - robotic arms will then remove the flat battery pack and exchange for a recharged set; 4 - driver returns and drives away. The manual operation currently takes 15-20 minutes per pack to exchange, the robotic proposal drops that to 5-10!

@gdhone2371

9 ай бұрын

@@PiersDJackson thanks, that's fascinating.

More brainstorming videos like this please! I'm going to share this with Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics (PHAD) who's an EE! He thinks outside of the box! Very creative person! He's originally from Russia, but you wouldn't guess it by listening to him talk! It's only when he breaks into full Russian mode!

@EdisonMotors

9 ай бұрын

we'll try. Now that we have Theron to film around the shop full time we should capture more

I love that Dave is covering the fact every location is unique as is the most optimal solution; that is going to be one hell of a well earned doctorate! The big one is interchangeable energy; if managed correctly the real possibility exists of opperation with near zero, zero or negative energy costs; yes that depends on each individual site. I noticed that some commenters still don't get that this about optimal use of resources; fuel will not go away (at least for now in most situations) the technology isn't quiet there yet, but the technology is here to facilitate 'use fuel only when you absolutely need to use fuel' and lower your bottom line in theprocess.

What about when you get to sawmill . You dump the extra energy into stationary batteries. Then those batteries can supply power into the sawmill or power grid. Then the truck can go back up the mountain to get another log load, and potential energy fill up.

Another idea with the needle nose is a forkable or easily hookable battery "pallet" that bolts to the frams so if any service to the battery in the front is needed it can all be removed in one go by just removing the hood and a couple connections

You guys are still makin me like what you do, even though i dont think an electric car is really the way to go. Fully electric logging truck seems fairly reasonable, though, after this video. Kinda really wana come down and check out the set-up out there, infact. That's how interested i am..in a technology i didnt really care for. Though gotta admit, the hybrid part makes it a lot more viable in my mind.

Excellent video! Just what I asked for! Thank you!! It's good to know who are the brains behind the projects!

21:48 I love how both take 1 and take 2 made it into the Final Cut 😂

@EdisonMotors

9 ай бұрын

I have fun with my editing, or lack of. - Theron Danger

The same computer could eventually keep track of its own weight and turn on a warning yellow light or red light for overweight as its being loaded and never have a overweight issue ever again. It would know the route and any road weight limits. It could sent into to truck stops before you get there and if the truck was stopped 3 weeks ago with no issues, and the transmission says all is well, it could give you the green light to not even bother stopping. There could even be sensors reading steering slop etc, that could indicate bad tierod ends etc.

Great work for a bunch of hosers! Seriously, you guys really get me CHARGED UP about this tech!!!!

Motor-generators also have interesting efficiency curves that vary by current level. If left totally to the typical driver, they will want to accelerate quickly, but keeping the mechanism well within the high efficiency range can significantly reduce the energy consumption to do the same work.

I love how open you guys have been with things, it's great. Yes, there are some things you can't share, but you're being a great example of how to do things in the modern day, a lot of KickStarter projects need to learn from you.

Two words: maintenance scheduling! This software could also do recordkeeping with respect to service intervals.

Remember if one can throw in an electric power pack, everyone else can too. A crucial consideration is enough battery to allow maximum regen back to the mill. If the battery is full 5 minutes into the return trip, there are few further gains thereafter. maximising energy potential is the game here.. Rise and fall in every road segment is known, hybrid hydraulic regeneration systems in Australia were working the energy needed - and accounting for predicted future deficits to minimise fuel consumption (Permodrive). Changing the absolute layout of forest blocks could be huge. Powering the mills with idle trucks - surplus energy from the downhill trips could grid feed also... You guys pay less for your power than we pay in grid access fees...Even at a spot generator price of 5c, means the consumer is exposed to 15-20c (that is IF they are exposed to market prices - then markets have the downside, when prices peak to 50c/kWh (good for generators, not so much for consumers.. This level of planning is normal for aviation, not necessarily for road transport. For more batteries up front, tandem steer axles allows for another 5tonnes of payload up front.

the predictive generator management sounds awesome

I’m just waiting for the day when I can buy a conversion kit from you guys

I love your companies, attitude and spirit. The best of entrepreneurship.

It’s fun watching y’all nerd out

Edison and Stimbo, the opposite ends of electric trucks are the kinds of electric vehicles i like.

A program controlling battery charge before going up or down large hills could also control the radiator fan to avoid turning on the fan when the generator will be turned off in the next minute and stay off for a while, reducing power use and keeping the engine warmer for when it is restarted.

What a brainstorming session it was fun to see the light bulbs come on save this video for future reference

Can y’all please do this more it’s very interesting to learn about this stuff

You had me at needle noise!😊

If it saves those beautiful old trucks from the scrapyard I am all for it. 😊

11:00 had me chuckling with the realization moment

Using the load to recharge the batteries. Brilliant in its simplicity - I'd say it's even elegant in a way - getting a free charge. I hope you guys go very far with this! Edit: thanks for letting us see this from over your shoulder, guys. I think a lot of us would like somehow to be part of what you're doing, because it's something worthwhile.

Yall should do power to grid added to your trucks, or truck sharing, so when regening more than draining, you can dump the batteries somewhere to have regen overhead

Man I would love to have a hybrid rig with Regen brakes and then a 53ft van with Regen brakes AND solar panels. The weight would probably be insane but I would love to see that in the real world and see how well it works

Thats insane, Imagine generating more energy then used, could even sell some to the grid.

@SeanHarlow

9 ай бұрын

I recall reading about a mine somewhere that's on the top of a hill and their electric haul trucks actually offload power to the grid at the bottom every time. I hadn't realized until this video that it could potentially apply to logging trucks as well.

you need a energy sharing type thing. so if a truck break down a other truck can recharge his friend.

If you routing a path in Google maps for bicycles, you totally get up and down along the path (so you know how difficult the ride will be). So they have the data.

At the beginning of this video I couldn't tell if you were joshing us or if he was having a legit discussion. Your facial expressions told me a lot. I see a consulting gig for this guy at Edison in the future.

Yup, data is extremely valuable (assuming it is analysed and understood...). An experienced automation engineer once said to me "If you aren't measuring your system, you don't understand your system". I was a bit offended.. as a factory engineer I thought I understood my system just fine. I was wrong, he was right... as I got into automation and energy efficiency, I found that every temperature or pressure transducer or other "measuring device" I fitted paid for itself many times over due to efficiency gains from increased understanding. More than the efficiency gains, the whole plant became more reliable as we could "see" events occurring that we had been unaware of, identify the cause and resolve the problems. I can see the same benefits for vehicles.. logging the electrical system while driving could show up peak loads, temperature spikes etc, and understanding these and resolving them could add significantly to the service life of the truck, or inform the reforming of a road to allow greater efficiency of the trucks using it etc. Great work guys, exciting times! Looking forward to seeing your company succeed, grow, and become a transformative organization.

The expansion of technology and these discussions are key , might not be a trucker but looking forward to my future hybrid pick up. Edison motors and deboss all the way!!!!!!!!!!!

Great Conversation.

Hopefully you guys get that solar trailer system running. If so you can see about entering your truck and trailer road train idea in the Australian Bridgestone World Solar Challenge. That would be an excellent proof-of-concept

@EdisonMotors

9 ай бұрын

I want to do this so badly! - Chace

@carlclouseriii8519

9 ай бұрын

@@EdisonMotors good luck with it. Also you could pickup any competitors that drop out and score some good guy points

@isaacdoesathing

9 ай бұрын

@@EdisonMotors That would be awesome! I've wanted someone to do this for a long time!

Have you considered exporting to the grid at the end of day/pre-exporting the battery down and seeling it back to the grid since your expecting an excess

I wonder if it'd be possible, given the potential net positive in energy production, could an operator sell that power back to the power company during peak times when connected to the grid?

@brucebaxter6923

9 ай бұрын

Yes, there are electric train systems on mines that don’t use power and have an excess already operating for many many years

@amosbackstrom5366

9 ай бұрын

Hopefully you can get a better deal than solar panel owners who can sell power back for 10¢ on the dollar.

@stephentroyer3831

9 ай бұрын

I think you can. My mind goes towards unloading that power to electric equipment, building power, things like that

@Airsoftbros888

3 ай бұрын

@@amosbackstrom5366😂😂

Super inspiring conversation! Love it ✌

Wondering if this could be used for some of our roll off trucks. We have a bunch of tandems and triaxles running around the Rockies and they load up near the top of the hill and unload near the bottom. Also wondering if you guys could share more information on your model for when it comes to general city/highway driving.

18 wheel drive (because it’s electric it’s essentially having lockers)with tire inflation-deflation system. That in itself is a game changer. Grandfather and father were both loggers. I didn’t pursue it but I know the game well

Go Beavs! Good luck on the PhD

Thanks for the info

David is over here hitting you right in the Joules

Ive been watching all your videos and you guys have a lot of great ideas

Great show.

Will the Edison trucks have telemetry back to Edison to continue development of the algorithm? How will you handle customer privacy?

Much love from Kelowna Brothers!

I do writing and research for X youtube channels - once accountants get hold of the figures, fleets are swapped over overnight - CA company after company are like we get 1 or 2 BEV or we swap out 50% of the fleet to BEV, for testing/experiment to see how good/saving before the year out all the fleet is BEV due to the accountants showing the cost savings. The shift to BEV esp companies will be driven by accountants and the cost savings in less downtime/PM/servings & esp fuel cost savings. In trucking esp, OTR fuel is by far your number-one cost

I already did this! 🤣This is awesome Guys!! Looking forward to watching you guys grow and prosper.

AWESOME!

Wow Chase, i'm really glad you have such nice friends talking Trucks , because it must be lonely being a LEADER like that, waaaay out in Front of the industry,...

@EdisonMotors

9 ай бұрын

It's not lonely. There's lots of good guys at Edison out front here with me working together - Chace

@-LightningRod-

9 ай бұрын

@@EdisonMotors absolutely friend, Your Team Is inspiring a Whole industry with FEARLESS and PEERLESS innovation,...Full Steam Ahead

In the American Vancouver and happy to buy a pint on your drives back.

Any plans to build other work/fleet chassis cabs/up fitted like class 3, 4, heavy/light duty?

wait... what?... go back i was spacing out 2:17 hahahah

Feature creep in real time! I love it.

I miss have misheard. Range anxiety with hybrids?

Question. Is there risk of overheating the batteries and catching fire. If so does it need fire suppression?

hi guys keep moving forward. we need to know the data on performance. i know two people who bought ev's and there range does not match what they were told it would be. that contributes to range anxiety. the hybrid design eliminates the anxiety issue. myself i would opt for the hybrid system almost every time. the ability to switch from just truck to grid topping allows flexibility.

What about power sharing from those logging trucks? Like in the yard recharging forklifts, or other equipment?

that is really really awesome bit of infomation

So honest questions first time seeing this truck. Batteries drive electric motors on each set of tires. In the engine bay is a diesel generator that charges the batteries. So what’s the point where or how does this beat traditional semis. Feels like it would use just as much diesel. Please some body explain.

This is just WAY too cool

And you can run the site with the batteries and diesel gen set

Energy saving can be algorithm mapped given the Regen data and charge/discharge model. Most important for pure electric is the range needed to get you all the way up hill with enough power to safely run the breaks and air pump as well as the power steering on the way down. How much breaking power will the Regen break provide. And how many amps it puts out. Oh wait! The loaded truck has more energy actually cos you are bringing tons of Wood downhill. You are for sure even on a hybrid going to on purpose discharge your battery upon return. If it takes time to discharge actually you may have to literally change battery bays to be able to climb on empty again. Unless you can exchange batteries or discharge uphill. Interesting concept.

Cool my alma mater is combining forestry and its electrical engineering Motors group. Sort of like the wave power with hatfeild

I find the hybrid trucks much more realistic than the fully electric trucks that they want to make here in Europe

You have the answer the problem now days

Been following this from the earliest videos with fascination. I'm curious what is the MAX environmental operating temp or duty cycle? Y'all always talk about the batteries in cold weather but what about keeping the batteries and motors from overheating in say the oilfields of west Texas in July and August when the air temp in the shade is 110 -115 degrees? just curious.

Neat to think you could recoup the power you spent making it up the hill just with the added weight

If he allowed Geolocation data inputs. Current companies could just tag vehicles during different routes and stop and go data. Along with scale data.

If in the end you are generation more power. Can you do some kind of Vehicle-to-grid? or vehicle to another vehicle or tools, etc..

@FUNNYBOY12375

9 ай бұрын

That was one of thir main plans

I'll have you know that this was so good that I delayed watching Tucker's interview with Trump. 😁😁😁 Seriously, the points you all brought up are golden. I've been a die hard diesel head for over 40 years but you definitely have me reconsidering a few things. My concern is that due to good old human greed, the bean counters will help their higher ups reap more profits while figuring out how to stiff the drivers, again. Nevertheless, this is the future you guys are spitballing and it's freaking awesome... Keep on truckin eh!

Australia would be a great place to test these trucks too.

If you know you’re going to have extra energy after bringing a load down assuming you have more than enough to get back up the mountain, could you use that energy to charge up other vehicles?

@dans_Learning_Curve

9 ай бұрын

Interesting.....

@EdisonMotors

9 ай бұрын

yeah in theory you should. We're working on concept that for a tow truck rig up right now - Chace

I've always thought that resource extraction industries were ripe for hybridization. Zoom out enough and a lot of bulk material and resource extraction usually goes for refinement/processing/shipping down hill.

Have you had any consideration of what the benefits in Ontario or Québec where the slope steepness and length is much less?

Energy capture from hauling loads downhill --- Fortescue railway does this with ore trains. Batteries take the empty train uphill to the mine and are charged on the net downhill haul.

@dirtdevil70

9 ай бұрын

Keep in mind...its not going to be downhill all the time when loaded , the numbers may flip.. may be pulling out of a valley so all the regen may be when empty..the heavy pulling all uphill...theres just to many variables

Great ro learn about thie.

The other part you guys missed (at least to the point I paused it), is land speculation...you figure out where they need those charging stations & you buy up land to lease back to power companies & fast food venders.

@nopenonein

9 ай бұрын

Did you know that MacDonald’s is not a fast food company mainly? They are a land property investment company. Their main purpose is to go in early and purchase high quality real estate in all countries. Lease them to franchisee’s to run the business and wait. Eventually property prices go up and then their portfolio grows in value. Look at all over the world where MacDonald’s was first in the market and purchased the still cheap prime real estate.

@peterf.4268

9 ай бұрын

@@nopenonein 100%.

The battery technology isnt there yet you cant charge them fast enough to take full advantage of dynamic braking.

Does it need such a large generator could you use a smaller gen set? Save weight and fuel?

@Pippy626

9 ай бұрын

I did not hear that part thank you!

Impressive

That was a good watch

Everything the student says makes sense. The problem is with real life application is the average employer and consumer doesn’t want to do these calculations. They go with tried and true with what works. But these guys are on another level with their trucks. It’s like a Lego. You can pretty much do everything yourself. 👏

If the trucks are abble to generate more energy that is actually consumed, do you plan to let the truck inject the excess electricity on the Network durring the night?

Once the battery is full ,are you using a resistive load for retarding? Like a 500 tonne diesel, electric rigid truck would

Careful on oversizing the diesel engine. In tracked equipment we have encountered problems where the engine operates in the low end of its range. Issue comes with the emission systems expecting a higher load percentage. Result is damaged and or failing emission systems. Essentially you have to burn fuel with oversized engine just to insure emission systems are operating correctly.

@BMG6519

9 ай бұрын

All fair points. As stated i work with tracked machinery which is by design off road. Unfortunately we are bound to the emission regs and have to deal with the add ons. My reaction was to the comment of “just banging an oversize engine in”. No issues doing this with engines w/o controls.

19:20 but the batteries will probably already be pretty full at the mill.

You should do more of theses kind of longer uncut videos more often