I love that John is willing to hand his platform over and uplift the voices of women. If only the Mormon church could do that.

The feeling of already being ruined is common, I assume. I remember being in a YW's class and realizing i had committed the "sin next to murder" It does a number on your mental health and actually made me give up causing even more promiscuity. I was damaged goods. It followed me into adulthood and I've only recently been able to work through the guilt and shame. For reference im 62 years old!!

I've been watching Mormon Stories podcast between calls and meetings at work, and I've got to say this was one of my favorite episodes. Courtney's personality, story, and perspectives are very unique. Such an incredible person. ❤

I raised my children in Kaysville, UT, and we are not Mormons. It was awful. In public school, the teacher asked my son's class to write a paper on where they're going on their mission!

@danielclingen34

18 күн бұрын

Mormons and evangelicals and 1/2 of Catholics are just explicitly fascist, the polar opposite of Jesus. Wild.

@jaynap8046

18 күн бұрын

I'm so sorry.. I raised my kids in Fruit HEIGHTS, BUT at the time I was full on Mormon... But no longer !!!!

@Dewey32

17 күн бұрын

I raised my kids in the South and my oldest’s third grade public school teacher asked what church they all went to, and scheduled special snack day during Ramadan, knowing there was an observant Muslim in her class. Had a jr. high teacher who said there’s no such thing as the Episcopal Church. Sex ed program is abstinence only. Special assembly featured southern Baptist testimonies by athletes. High school clubs included society of Christian athletes but prohibited LGBTQ support club. A coach was called out for wearing a “Celebrate Black History” tee because a friend of a school board member thought it was a BLM shirt. I could go on.

@sacagawea9743

17 күн бұрын

Sounds soo awful 😂 lol.

@douglaswilkinson5700

17 күн бұрын

My fellow Lutheran friends took a job in Salt Lake. He had to pull his son out of public school due to some nasty bullying by you-know-who and enrolled him in a private Catholic school.

I was very impressed with Courtney's level of self-awareness as a young person. Also, despite all of the struggles that she has faced in Mormon communities, she is nevertheless very magnanimous in her views toward the Mormon people. I learned a lot! 👍👍👍

@tesshendersonfotheringham9805

14 күн бұрын

All good points. Kudos to Courtney. I don’t think I could have been as magnanimous.

As much as I love John Dehlin, I thoroughly enjoyed Hayley as host for this video - she did fantastic! I appreciate the thoughtful questions, empathy, validation and eloquent communication. Courtney is awesome and very brave to speak up about her experiences…shame on that bishop (and all the others) for victim blaming you as a child. would love to see her back on the podcast as well. Great job everyone on this interview! 🤍🤍🤍

Hearing Courtney talk about the bishop's response to opening up about being sexually assaulted makes my blood boil. My mother was raped and was counseled by her bishop to stop taking the sacrament as part of HER repentance for breaking the law of chastity. She felt broken and ended up marrying the man who raped her. He later strangled my mother's dog. When she asked her parents for advice on what to do they said, "He'll be fixed in the next life." She stayed with him. I am the first of the four kids she had with him. She later confided in another bishop about how she and her children were being abused. He brushed it aside and did nothing.

@markrutte5637

18 күн бұрын

damn

@martylaska2016

18 күн бұрын

So very sorry your Mother was treated with such disregard.

@sandymmusic8909

17 күн бұрын

That’s just awful. I’m so sorry. My mom had a very similar experience.

@Smitty5000

17 күн бұрын

So sorry to hear that. Such a terrible experience. “Stay together if the spouse is abusive,” but if the spouse left the church then “you should consider divorce.”

@lorinapetranova2607

17 күн бұрын

I have the hardest time understanding why a woman would want to stay in such a misogynistic psychologically dysfunctional culture. It's so horrifying and demeaning. It actually causes me to feel half sick listening n trying to tolerate listening to this. Sounds like weird communist style. Many blessings ya'll.

It’s never the boys fault at church colleges, just not LDS. And many Christian faiths encourage abstinence.

@christianfarmer

17 күн бұрын

Except it is. It depends on the bishop. Some bishops blame every thing on the boy.

I went to school in Rexburg and definitely agree with the representation. At church they preach about dating and getting married constantly. Also you are expected to tattle on your roommates. Every year you need another bishop interview to renew your honor code to continue at school. The bishops mainly deal with sex. They are old men who have no business hearing about young adult activities. The honor code office got in trouble in 2019 and made some tiny improvements. But it is a weird place for sure. Many men there do feel like girls who aren't virgins are fun, but not wife material and that is so disgusting. They themselves are not all virgins by the way. Double standard.

I’m a lot older than both of you. My experience at Ricks( BYU Idaho) was much worse because of bishops. And there… so much more…. For years. I’m in my 70s now. Still makes me sad.

@katiewenthur8008

9 күн бұрын

I'm in my 70's also, so BYU was more than 50 years ago. The branch president I had the semester before I married my RM in the SL temple was horrible. He wanted to grill me every week, telling me he had the gift of discernment and would not give me a recommend until the week before I married. I lived in the dorms just to avoid the appearance of evil. As he is grilling me that last time, he told me if I was unclean, the men in the temple would know and they would toss me out, mid ceremony. That's where he lost me for good. If those dudes were so sensitive, how would I even gain entry? So I get married in that whole weird temple culty weirdness. I never went to church again. I had always been sort of PIMO but that weirdness sent me off to be totally POMO.

I bet that guy in his truck understood what “no” meant in other contexts. And I bet he said “no” when he meant “no”. No excuses. I’m proud of you. You’re Awesome! Keep going in your plans and dreams!

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

Yeah, both of them are examples of sexual assault and your point about understanding "no" in other contexts is a perfect example. He understands what every single of the 10 commandments (a list of "no's") are, but when a live human being is right in front of him saying the word, somehow it's a mystery. We have to be careful not to confuse that boundary to the point of rape apologetics. It' is what it is, no means no.

So many of us have experienced this "freeze" state in the face of men. Theres the physical threat of someone capable of seriously harming you in addition to the influence the church has had on us through teaching us to conform and not providing healthy ways to stand up for our own thoughts, values, ideas, perspectives, etc etc I never saw my mom say no to my father in the face of emotional abuse of her or her children which led me to believe No wasn't an option. I thought I could either try to runaway or comply, and with this person it felt I could give myself the illusion of choice or they would take it from me. Though each family is different, I see how clearly the patriarchal system of the church facilitated the unhealthy environment I was raised in, in addition to creating further problems for my siblings and I. It teaches us to always obey and listen to the "priesthood leader" in our homes and in the community.

Visited Rexberg in the mid 1990s and lived there for a few months in the spring of 99 (to enjoy the winter climate and snow sports, etc.). My friends were still in school at Ricks and I had already graduated from a Texas college. I grew tired of the behavior of folks (in Idaho and Utah) who thought I was a member, and then got very quiet after I said 'No' when asked if I was LDS. Though I wasn't looking for dates or asking ladies out; it was clear most females were looking for a Mormon mate; preferably a guy who had returned from a mission. There were soo many conversations were I would hear Mormons mention 'non-members' - and scoff at people dating non-members. While I met nice people - their strong bias/prejudice against non-members was enough for me to move on and not feel 'at home' unless I went over to Driggs or Jackson Hole.

She articulated that so well. It was like listening to my life as a teen/young adult growing up in Kaysville as a non mormon. That's exactly how it is. So sad, I can't imagine ending up with guys like that and thinking its normal. Horrible.

Even the way you're excusing his behaviour and saying he wasn't taught consent - if a man tried to get handsy with him, he 100% knows the word no means no. These guys take full advantage, that's why he picked someone younger and then laughed. I think teaching girls about consent, safety and sorting out their need for male validation and attention is far more important than trying to excuse/educate these men. They will never change, they will keep trying to manipulate young women whichever way they can.

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

Exactly.. Otherwise I'm gonna go find this guy and "ask" for his atm card, lol.

I’ve been to Rexburg. I had no idea when I was there it was a Mormon north. Well, while at Walmart I kept getting a weird vibe from the people. Sneers. Pasty white people starring at me. Kinda like when I lived in Mesa in 1961. Creepy place Rexburg is

@Hallahanify

18 күн бұрын

Are you not white, I don't understand?

@soude85

18 күн бұрын

@@Hallahanify Why would that even matter-don’t stare at people!🙄

@Hallahanify

18 күн бұрын

@@soude85 I'm just confused why they would be staring.

@rudecrudefood7244

17 күн бұрын

@@Hallahanify well yes I am. But I'm not pasty white. Pasty White is white people who don't expose their skin to the sun. Long dresses, long sleeves etc. There is no color I see but pasty white faces and hands. Women don't walk side by side with their man. They walk a step behind. I saw that over and over at the 2 hours I spent in Wall Mart. And, every women I saw was with.a man. Very strange place and I'd like never to return. I leaned not to trust Mormons in Mesa 1961 and Rexburg is no different than Mesa.

@djvee25

17 күн бұрын

I'm curious too, was there something about your appearance that stood out in Rexburg? Clothing, hair style, tattoos etc... Or did the staring seem completely random and unexplainable? Not that it matters much, staring is still rude. Just curious. I've been stared at too... Usually explicably, but occasionally inexplicably.

In Mormonism, the man has all the power. So they think whatever they want, they should take

I'm 63 years old and nothing has changed...

I just couldn’t imagine going through the day without a cup of coffee

So many things on this podcast resonated with me, since I grew up in SE Idaho lived in Rexburg as a teen and then went to BYU-Idaho. I also worked at BYU-Idaho for 6 years as an adult.

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

I'm really intrigued in all those places now after following the Daybell trial. Chad Daybell's family is incomprehensible to me.

I had one son and two daughters I felt like my most important role as my daughter's father is to show them how they should expect their husbands to treat them at the same time I wanted my son to see how he should treat his wife that was something I felt was very important I was stunned LDS till about 2 years ago. My kids have turned out to be very good sincere genuine adults

They're not bringing up the Massive Shame Response some religious people have while having sex. The Religious Person (man or woman) will be 100% into it. And consenting. And then all of a sudden Massive Guilt hits them and they become a completely different person.

@nazcraz11

14 күн бұрын

It doesn't sound like she really had the shame thing, though.

Love listening to your calm voice,, Gerardo. ❤ great job newbies IMO sex Ed in school or from parents can prevent many rapes and allows the LDS members to have better sexual relationships/ marriages. Must learn to “make love” not just penetration. ❤

@acgracia0220

18 күн бұрын

It is Gerardo

@nickywal

18 күн бұрын

It's sad but it's verifiably true. Teaching children consent and the correct names for their own anatomy, enables them to recognise abuse and reach out for help. Which should never be their responsibility but that's our reality

It's a shame for me to see women privilege penile-vaginal sex as the only thing that should be called "sex" and the only definition for having and losing virginity. I'm a gay man and I may never have that kind of sex, and for most women, as I understand it, that form of sex isn't especially sexually satisfying. It just really seems like we're having the straight men define sex for all the rest of us.

@rickmcdonald7075

16 күн бұрын

They are talking about their experience. That’s what sex and virginity was for them at that time.

@Cocoisagordonsetter

16 күн бұрын

Some people don't enjoy it. Some do. It doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality. It is literally one of the most important acts on earth because it leads to procreation.

@lvega5606

16 күн бұрын

I'm pretty sure vaginal-penis sex is very enjoyable to the vast majority of women. Apparently a significant percent haven't had an orgasm from that type of sex. Which, as a woman who can have a dozen orgasms that way in a night, I don't understand.

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

@@Cocoisagordonsetter I'm pretty sure penises and vaginas aren't relegated to any single orientation, so everybody's perspective is relevant. The only thing that is irrelevant is whether procreation is involved, unless you're going to restrict all sexual activity to people who are physically able to have children, which still doesn't exclude gay penises and vaginas... 🤔

@Cocoisagordonsetter

10 күн бұрын

@@raincadeify You said a whole lotta words. I will repeat to you what I posted above which was a response to a comment. Your insane ramblings are just that. Some females enjoy the VERY traditional form of intercourse and some Do NOT. The fact that people can make babies in labs now is cool though, but for thousands of years it was done the obvious way. I suspect you were possibly created that way. Please Please Please do not enlighten me if you know differently.

Courtney, God, I wish I'd known what was going on and could have been there for you. There's no words for what you went through and had to navigate, and mostly alone. It breaks my heart! With my own SA and abuse, I know having a safe place to talk can be so cathartic, so I'm glad you found that place. I can't believe our bishop responded like that and never asked if you were okay! What a prick! That makes me rage! Thank you for sharing your story. Your sense of self was something that I noticed and admired about you. If you ever want to chat, I'm here for you, but I warn you, I swear even more now. 😂

Great podcast, the topic changed into something so incredibly important. Mormon culture does not allow for conversations about sex, my parents couldn't say the word, they were too modest and the word sex had a dirty connotation. Because these conversations are not being had, I was not safe along with many other young men and women. The last people that I wanted to talk about sex with, would have been my parents, and church leaders. It shouldn't be that way at all.

Wow, you really made me think with an expanded perspective about how we view the "sanctity of marriage." Is it really respecting the sanctity of marriage to pressure young adults into marriage before they are ready and before they actively choose it for themselves? Or is the act of applying that kind of pressure more telling of the spiritual immaturity of the one applying the pressure? If we have to see an outward technicality met and that's the single make-or-break difference before we are able to withhold judgment and to show unconditional love and respect for our own child and for their own journey of growth and self-determination, then we are letting our own spiritual immaturity show.

Since Bishop's are called to preside over a congegation, they really have absolutely no training whatsoever in these types of situations. That does not excuse the shaming that these young ladies go through. No is no. I don't care if you are wearing a towel it does not give anyone the right to force themselves on someone else. What you are wearing is not the issue. The issue is the fact that because someone is stronger than you that they pushed the bounds of the law. He lost control, not her. The first thing that the bishop should have shown was compassion. Not lecture her on her wardrobe. All the bishop did was add to her distress by suggesting she should have expected as much. I wonder if he would have taken the same stance if this was his daughter? This idea that they cant help themselves because a girl bared her shoulders is complete BS. It took me years to understand it wasn't my fault. Didnt change the fact that I felt the repercussion for years. He certainly didn't honor his priesthood that night but I got blamed for it.

It sounds like slow motion when I turn it to normal speed after listening to it at 1.5 x for awhile 😅 Great mormon story !

Amazing episode. Thank you for Courtney for sharing your story. ❤❤❤

Often times " church people" are only friends, coworkers, family of the person affected. Knowing that your reputation at church, at work, at home, school ... Everywhere can be negatively affected. Thus means completely uprooting the person. It's absolutely terrifying and can be devastating to one's life.

Two great hosts!

Very relevant from a non-lds perspective as well

Cancel the LDS cult!

@lorrainefranchi9105

11 күн бұрын

Or AT LEAST cancel their tax exempt status which enables them to amass so much money and power

Great interview! Losing your virginity is not the end of the world, but it seems to do irreparable damage to the women involved if they are not convinced that they love this person. I still think waiting for that special person is the highest wave but very few of us managed to achieve it with some degree of sorrow and regret. My opinion....

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

I think demystification is called for. Love isn't necessary but healthy boundaries and enough self-awareness to know if one is ready. There's nothing sacred about marriage or love that makes it a greenlight imo. Marriage is just a rubber stamp on a what may turn out to be a very bad idea.

I am just getting into this. I haven't been to Rexburg in 10 years, not being religious but I have been in the Rexburg Temple several times, but some 12 years ago, I found Mormon Think and Mormon Stories and it was down the rabbit hole for me. I don't have much relatable stuff to say except that my son-in-law, councilor in one of the wards there, and the band leader of the Madison music department, along with my daughter who has not seen me in 10 years. Some example with shunning. I was able to phone her last week (They took off the phone block.) but the relationship isn't the same. She didn't even recognize my voice. Sorry to ramble but when Madison High was mentioned it brought back memories.

So much of this sort of thing I think comes from the horrible notion that people's worth is somehow tied to their sexuality and, more specifically, virginity. Abstinence does not equal virtue!

Thank you for being so brave and vulnerable in sharing your story Courtney and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through. Mormonism teaches girls from a young age to be meek and mild- show kindness, not be rude or loud etc and that conditioning makes it hard to know how to handle a situation when “no” is not being heard. We weren’t taught any tools of how to handle that kind of situation. I wish you the best in your healing journey. ❤

I am over and over again impressed by the sharpness of hosts and guests on this program. @Mormon Stories: it looks like a lot of the criticism of the format is from non members of the channel. IMO it looks like they are here to judge more than to listen. Also, I wonder if they know they can listen to the podcast and not worry about eye contact and camera angles?

@raincadeify

Күн бұрын

What is disappointing about this is that fawning or defensive comments get a "heart" response from Mormon Stories while no appreciation is shown to people who offered valid input expressing empathy for the guest who has survived some horrific stuff. You're drawing a line between people who are viewing this content, in some cases for years, and those who are "members"? You're valuing those differently and MS is approving that sentiment? That's the culty part of parasocial relationships that this channel should discourage. This isn't a club for a select few, is it? I've been here a long time and can say a constant theme has always been the value of diversity of opinion. Why were John and so many others excommunicated? They challenged stuff in the hope of making the church they loved better. They stood up for marginalized people who were not being valued or heard. Based on my overall experience here, I'm appalled that you're suggesting nonmembers' opinions are less valid and getting approval from the channel for saying it. Saying that an SA survivor should not be talking to the side of someone's head while she bears her soul in front of thousands of people is not something you or this channel should be threatened by. And seriously, are you really looking up the names of people who left comments you don't like to see if they are paying for a membership so you can post that? Really??

This was a really outstanding interview! ❤

Hayley is an amazing host! Seriously amazing.

Please call out those Bishops, that was rape and they need to be held accountable Also the perpetrators.PRAY for You❤

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

I think they have a legal duty to report, right?

Good for you. You knew in your core that something was off. It's so sad how so many people are easily brainwashed. I also don't understand how they want you to hide your bodies, yet have a ton of kids confusion.

Non Mormon women go through this as well. Really sad. 🙏❤

I’ve never felt so relatable to a Mormon Stories podcast before as a never Mormon.

Y’all should cover what’s been happing in Laie Hawaii with the church and BYUH steamrolling over the locals with the land issues

Hey Gerardo!!!! Great job

@ambermchugh9381

18 күн бұрын

Of course Haley and Cortney as well. Younger voices reach younger viewers. Great job

This was how rexburg was at ricks college in late 80s same exact. Nothing ever changed. Your story triggered many similar memories. Exact as if I told my story as well. Others as well

The k you for sharing your story. Your perspective was really insightful.

Just a note for those leaving their religious life behind, please do not look to form other groups. Just stand on your own.🤔

I'm always a little confused about the seating arrangement on this channel because you only see one person in a shot at a time. In this case, one host is talking to the camera even though the person she's talking to is right there, probably to her right.. Idk, maybe it's just me, but I wish they would zoom out now and then out to establish where everyone is. Also, it feels impersonal for the host to be talking to the camera instead of the guest, especially considering the subject matter. Overall this was a good discussion and I give credit to Courtney for being willing to talk openly about this deeply personal stuff.

Omfg all I can say is this cult is not he most damaging thing ever to do to a child growing up in a Mormon cult !!!

I think we need to stop saying they don’t know what they are doing. I’m sorry as someone with more experience NO. These boys and men know what they are doing. I’m so sorry about what you experienced my dear. I’m so sick of my beautiful sisters being so disrespected and used. As mothers we need to teach our sons, and we need the fathers to actually respect women as well. Unfortunately most men are predators in a way. Even looking at a woman that is the same age as your daughter or grandchild is sick. Seriously grow up and protect the feminine. ❤

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

💯 It sounds like "boys will be boys". Rape is more that a bump in the road on the way to manhood. It's not normal, it's a pathology.

@raincadeify

Күн бұрын

💯

A great many of these issues exist in all Christian purity cultures. LDS sure take it to the nth degree

From Rexburg to Orem, how depressing.

Re:@5:35 Dinosaurs still exist. They are in Florida. Also known as "Florida Gators"!😊

@aliciamarie9704

18 күн бұрын

There are also monkeys & crocs in FL. I’ve been educating myself because we just moved here! 😊

@hlnbee

15 күн бұрын

Prehistoric crocks were gigantic!

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

@@aliciamarie9704 Monkeys? Are you sure?

@elichaalmonord49

9 күн бұрын

@@raincadeifyyes. In Fort Lauderdale there is a troop that lives near the airport/port

I grew up in the area, went to school in Rigby. I dated mormon men and I swear that they're taught to be handsy as hell. I've dated men with tattoos, long hair and listened to goth metal and been treated so much better than a mormon guy. Hence, a good reason that I'm still single.

@raincadeify

Күн бұрын

It's that pesky uberpatriarchy.

Gotta love the judgmental culture in Mormonism.

46:29 Are you reading these questions off a teleprompter or queue cards? I really don't like how you're making eye contact with the camera when you ask a question and then turn your head to look at the guest when you've finished, it feels so impersonal and alienating to your guest. put your queue card questions off camera behind your guest so you can remain looking at and interacting with them.

@isabellahenric6808

5 күн бұрын

I tought the same, feels staged, unreal and weird to not have eye contact with the person you're addressing

Can we hear something about the trad wives?

Very xcellent young hosts!

Lo hiciste muy bien Gerardo

@Dewey32

4 күн бұрын

¡De acuerdo!

Hailey did a fabulous job!

They asked me who the other person was. Like three years ago but I was much older and they were my age so possibly in leadership. They wanted to inform the other person's bishop.

Lo hiciste muy bien Gerardo!

Love following Hayley on IG.

I wish the computer and phone alerts would be silenced before recording begins. Listeners look at THEIR phone or computer with every alart. I finally turned this one off because ot was so distracting. It is surprising that MS is coming up on 2000 episodes yet there are aspects that are still so unprofessional.

Thank you ladies for your bravery. I commend you. That aside, I'd just like to say that I found it off putting how Hayley looked down the camera when speaking to Courtney about their shared traumatic experiences. Especially during her heartfelt apologies that she issued, without turning to look at Courtney. It came off as insincere and rehearsed. I give this feedback in the hope that it may be constructive for your career and interviewing skills going forward.

@ilenedea4507

17 күн бұрын

Totally agree here, I feel Hailey is sincere & really love her content and conversations. But it was noticeable and very very slightly off putting looking directly into the camera instead of facing the person your talking to

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

Yeah, I left a similar comment. I thought it might be because she's used to formats where she's online and not in the same room with the people she's talking to. But asking for details of a rape experience while not even looking at her to see how it's landing...

@nazcraz11

14 күн бұрын

John used to do this too (look into the camera rather than at the guests) until people mentioned it, so it's not always intuitive. She would probably make that change going forward.

I got a DUI In rexburg. My experience was really difficult but thankfully the judge was an elderly guy and actually reminded me of a bishop. Maybe he was. 18 months of probation and a bunch of community service. I live in Pocatello so did my probation here. The probation officer in rexburg completely ignored me for 18 months. Anyway. I don’t go back to Rexburg anymore. 😊

@menufrog

18 күн бұрын

I hope you don't DUI anymore either 😂

I asked my TBM seminary teacher uncle when I was an adult “what about the dinosaurs” 8:04 and he laughed and said it was just a mistake that god made!!?!?!! God makes mistakes?? 😂

Loved this episode but have to admit the constant texting and dinging was super annoying and distracting. I’d suggest turning personal phones on silent during podcasts.

@mormonstories

17 күн бұрын

I thought we eliminated that. Can you please share time codes?

@jetlink5123

17 күн бұрын

Yes. The constant text messaging phone sounds were very distracting. Please mute your cell phones in future interviews or at least give a warning at the beginning that there will be a lot of distractions.

@jetlink5123

17 күн бұрын

@@mormonstories it was pretty constant throughout the whole episode

@janeller4390

17 күн бұрын

@@jetlink5123 correct. Unfortunately there were too many to count. I haven’t noticed it as much on any other episodes though.

@alicias9928

13 күн бұрын

Agreed! Wish they had cough buttons too. Not because anyone coughed, but someone kept glugging a drink over the microphone. I listen to the podcast, so I don't have the video to help distract me from all the extra sounds. I gave up and didn't finish the episode.

Ok, yes but here's a trivial question - who is messaging during this episode? it was really distracting. Worst 2c ever on my part.

@mormonstories

17 күн бұрын

Can you share the time code?

@Dewey32

4 күн бұрын

I didn’t notice this at all. I saw and heard the three of them listening well and responding thoughtfully to each other. (I’m a pre smart phone dinosaur, but I have gotten used to the quick glance at devices. There was a time 20 years ago that it would have annoyed me.)

There are OTC birth control pills available and your pharmacist can prescribe them in some states (such as Arizona if they are trained). New generic plan b pills are now in the ballpark of $15

Why exclude Hawaii

@summerlake356

18 күн бұрын

They lack experience?

@nathanaeldavenport2251

18 күн бұрын

Lai’e is pretty different from Rexburg and Provo. It’s not anywhere near as ethnically homogenous, and it also has a sizable presence of non-LDS religions. It has a culture that stands apart from the Mormon Corridor culture that dominates in the Intermountain west. But it definitely is the most Mormon place outside of North America.

@NinaKeilin

10 күн бұрын

@@nathanaeldavenport2251Hawaii is part of North America.

@Dewey32

4 күн бұрын

@@NinaKeilin They’re part of the US but not the continent of North America.

I think that this conversation excuses men (like me) too much. This was a rape and most men would take a “no” for “no” and would not have pressed when she told him upfront that she did not want sex. The problem is this excuse for men (“they were not taught” etc) makes all men, especially LDS men, seem like potential rapists. So many of us men are careful and these incidents are terrible and the exception not the rule. I agree that in matters of sexuality men are generally the aggressors - but women can be sexually aggressive too and may not get verbal consent before moving forward. I’ve met them for sure. That said - I am certainly teaching my daughters, and sons, to verbalize consent.

@raincadeify

14 күн бұрын

💯. It's a dim view of men to think that most would rape someone just because in that specific case, they don't know what consent is. Especially when it comes to high demand religions which have not shortage of "no's" that everybody's expected to adhere to, somehow though when it comes to rape, things get confusing.

Courtney, as I was finishing this I wanted to tell you about a 33-year old vlogger on you-tube who travels all over the world a lot in her Odysey camper and alone. She is Polish, educated in the United Kingdom. she has toured in this country but in the Western states, but she doesn't like big cities. On one of her posts, she tells her followers, over a million, that she doesn't want kids. She was married and divorced for the same reason kind of as you. She is not LDS but was raised Christian but now does her own thing. Her sex life seems to similar to yours. She has decided to not have relationships for a year. If you have time, you might want to look up Eva Zu Beck. I think you and she might have a lot in common and you might get some pointers on navigating this life. And this pushing isn't just in the Church. Patriarchy is a problem all over the world but mostly with religions that are based on the Bible like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. I had lots of sex with one girl who was active when I met her. I loved how much we did it, but then I joined the Church and was put on a guilt trip for what I had learned from Playboy Magazine, and not realizing that what I did in my bedroom was my business and not that of a Mormon prophet.

I very much disagree that boys/men aren’t told or don’t know what “no” means. He was most definitely a predator and took advantage of you being 17. There is no grace for him. I’m sorry that happened to you. I think this is mostly everyone’s first time story though. I think Mormon Stories could be a great show to have this discussion with non-Mormons on the show to get both sides of the story of everyone from different worlds having the same story and discussing the whys.

These things can easily lead to suicide. Very disrespectful and dangerous behavior towards this women.

Dinosaurs are dragons!

What no one is connecting here is that the lack of sexual education and what are normal desires as human beings is a problem on both sides. When girls are friendly it’s misinterpreted as flirting or leading the guy on. She hasn’t been taught what her actions are doing or implying to the males. The males are thinking oh this chick is in to me, and biologically it’s not an easy shut off for men. So she’s going to feel used and he’s going to be demonized. Second, another connection to this piece is that when individuals who have a history of being abused or neglected at home, return to the person they were intimate with, it’s because there some kind of emotional connection trade off because someone is giving them the gift of time. Third point is that because there isn’t education (many members believe that sex ed belongs at home and not in schools but it’s not genuinely discussed at home. So this lack of education places individuals in a vulnerable situation that when they’re feeling coerced into sexual activity they begin the victim mode mentality. Which could be avoided by knowing upfront the biological differences between men and women and how each are more vulnerable throughout sexual relationships. Fourth point is that there’s no question that religious overreach into personal wearing of clothes and garments does do harm both ways. It’s absolutely not fair to guys to be continually exposed to overly skimpy outfits…my saying that doesn’t excuse men for not respecting boundaries of asking and the word no. It’s also damning for women to grow up so covered up and body shamed that they don’t feel beautiful about themselves. Garments don’t help with sexual activity or connectivity in the bedroom. Rather it interferes with the most important part of a covenant relationship.

It sounds like both of your family dynamics were a mess. I personally know Hayley's was.

“The Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrine and lays down contention. It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of our day. The type of apostates in the Book of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. God, with his infinite foreknowledge, so molded the Book of Mormon that we might see the error and know how to combat false educational, political, religious, and philosophical concepts of our time.” - Ezra Taft Benson SOURCE" April 1975 General Conference

you need to take 50 percent of the blame. he should go to jail and you should be an example to children why they should listen to there parents ...you went back and the both of you did it again your not a victim your an example of what you should listen to your parents

@Tyler-2839

18 күн бұрын

That's one opinion but that opinion is ignorant. I'd encourage you to look into how parents can support adolescents as they mature emotionally, including age-appropriate and healthy exploration of their sexuality.

@uofmdad42goblue2

18 күн бұрын

@@Tyler-2839 you sound like a ped .... no sex for children period and if you lie and try to act like an adult then you are responsible for what comes of that ..she was well aware of what she was doing and she went back again so she is now an example that parents will use when telling there kids to listen to them. no sex period

@uofmdad42goblue2

18 күн бұрын

@@Tyler-2839 your statement is ignorant I have worked in an emergency room for 15 years. we just had a 16 yr old who came in with herpees on her mouth and her private parts. her mom told us that she taught her daughter that if she was to have sex she had to make sure she used a condom. well the young man that she had sex with had a rash on his balls and he didn't know what it was he even showed the girl and they both thought it was a heat rash from him running at school now that girls life is ruined there is no cure ...but her mom made sure that we all knew that she educated her daughter ..no sex for children period should be the only message. herppes is a small problem for what's out there.

@soude85

17 күн бұрын

You are the reason why we need to teach children about “victim blaming”. No means no and he never was punished for the SA of a minor.

@colettemaxwellhill4090

17 күн бұрын

Trauma can cause us to do things we wouldn't normally do. The "freeze" state is also close to the "Fawn" state, which is people pleasing. She'd already had something taken from her against her will and had nowhere to turn without judgment. Are you seriously blaming an undereducated 17-year-old for not doing what you think is right, when she'd already been ignored and dismissed by a person in power when she did try to get help or process it?!? Of course, she went into "fawn" and went with it until she could take back her power! Shame on you! Your male privilege is showing. I pray your kids never go through a similar trauma because you would not be a safe person to talk to about it.