If the major switch manufacturers ever agree to a single standard for low-profile switches, it could spark a whole new renaissance in low profile keyboards the same way Cherry's patent expiration sparked all the innovation in conventional mechanical keyboards. Right now, low profile is a mess of incompatible boards, switches, keycaps, and stabs.

Actually, My main thing besides price is a lack of low profile options ;) Mech Caps sit too high with too much travel compared to scissor switches.

i agree that these are real problems in the keyboard hobby, especially group buys, but it's gotten better over the years and i think 2023 was a really strong year for keyboards. group buys are getting less common, instock keyboards are getting more common, and budget keyboards keep betting better and cheaper. i think 2024 is going to be a good year for people in the hobby, especially with the rise of hmx switches so soon in the year.

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

You are right yeah. Instock boards are getting cheaper and cheaper which is nice.

As someone who is old enough to remember when the Model F first came out I find this rather laughable. With all of the "innovation" in the "hobby" over the past decade, it still isn't making something to the quality of what was available 40+ years ago. But as someone making the transition from a laptop back to the desktop, I'm glad that I can now buy a keyboard that doesn't suck. From my point of view, the industry still has one hell of a long way to go to get back to where things were 40 years ago.

For innovation ideas: curved non-planar geometry for the keys mounts, keys that follow a slight curve instead of going straight down, programmable force curves and actuation points using electromagnets, or a slide out crumb tray, AI goal-based keyboard designs, each individual key being an independent keyboard that can modularly connect to keys next to it like legos, etc. Most of these ideas would make the cost problem much worse.

@MindBlowerWTF

3 ай бұрын

i threw up a little after this

@nunyadambidniss

3 ай бұрын

My main thing besides price is a lack of low profile options ;) Mech Caps sit too high with too much travel compared to scissor switches.

Still waiting for my Cycle7 for my first GB but next probably not joining anymore. 😂

4. the big g4m3r companies which are supposed to bring economies of scale are actually bringing the enshittification of their attached software

@Zwylo

3 ай бұрын

true

All of the innovation has gone into the split/DIY/ergo scene, I'm more excited about splits such as the Charybdis than yet another cherry clone switch.

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

True.

This video should be titled why "I'm not into mechanical keyboards anymore." Group buys, that's a personal choice. Keyboard building can be expensive, but comparing it to pc building as hobby, it comes out on the less expensive end lol. Lastly, there are still so many things you can do. Painting, 3D printing, etc. This hobby can go forever depending on your creativity!

@Zwylo

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment! I didn't think about some of those areas your right!

I actually know a reason why group buys exist like this, and its because of manufacturers. to make a product from scratch, u need not only design, but also X ammount of money to produce the modules for ur design, and its cost start from 10k and above, and thats for the module alone, the manufacture of the product have not started yet. and to mass produce it u also need to reach certain numbers, like at least 50 orders for example, to make it worth it, cuz nobody is gonna waste 10k+ to just make 1 or 10 samples. they'll only give u samples after they receive the orders and money for it.

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

Yep, your right. Its just the scary mystery of not knowing what build quality and other factors are and things especially from newer companies. Thanks for the comment!

@rcbuggies57

3 ай бұрын

Yeah it's just an unfortunate consequence of small people wanting to be able to realize their ideas for a design without the money a large company that is much more careful with niche products does have. I think they should exist, but it really should be something that as a community we vet the people running the group buys effectively so people can communicate if theree is an issue with the buy.

In order to understand the reason why group buys exist you kind of have to understand the way keyboards and other components in the hobby are made. Mainly talking about barebone kits here, but I'm sure things like keycaps work in a similar fashion. To successfully manufacture your design, even if passes the multiple ICs, you would need to sign a contract with a manufacturer. Manufacturers are often big companies who will not take any risks for you. Because of that, you have to essentially pay upfront for everything before any action could take place. Most of the creators in the keyboard scene are either very small teams of just a couple of people, or a solo developer, who simply cannot afford to take a risk of potentially being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt if something somewhere goes wrong or if the product won't sell as well as it is supposed to. Additionally, most manufacturers won't actually take orders of low quantities because usually premium customs require custom tooling to produce, which is simply not profitable unless you are willing to pay for X units. Take into account that just prototyping can cost thousands of bucks before even an argument could be made for mass production, and you have many creators just giving up on their designs. GBs are a way to shift a big risk between a larger pool of people and ensure that a product is actually made beyond prototypes and mockups. I'm in no way a supporter of GBs, and this is definitely not the best way to handle production, but it is a way that the community adopted in the early days. Nowadays, it's the norm. I completely understand when small creators push for GBs. That's just the only way we know how to handle production costs. But, if you were to ask me, bigger companies could take the risks just for the sake of being in stock. They don't, because it's easier for them to just double it and pass it to the next person (the consumer). That should change. As of the other two points - absolutely. There's a lot to be said about the overall price point in this space - a lot of variables come in to play. But we are seeing a lot of big improvements in accessibility nowadays, take alu kits as an example (typing this on a Sugar65 lol). The more mainstream custom keyboards get - the easier it is to take marked up prices down. Just compare the reality of today to a couple of years ago - surely you can understand that we've evolved plenty. As for innovation... there is some, I suppose, but not nearly as much as I'd like there to be, for sure. The high end is mostly about the looks nowadays, for the overall premium of it. There are absolutely ways forwards though. As a tech nerd, discovering the "Hello World" keyboard project (look it up on KZread) was definitely like having a wet dream. Sure, not everyone will need modifications this extreme, but just as an example of what could be. I think overall layouts and switches have great potential for innovation just due to the fact that it's an overload of "preference", but who knows. For some reason this video made me write my first comment in ages at 3 AM.

@Zwylo

3 ай бұрын

Don't worry I'll read it lol. Thank you for furthering my knowledge in the subjects you sound like you know a lot more than I do. It makes me feel happy that people are inspired enough to write these comments. Have a lovely day! ♥

thanks massflop

I'm more into ergo split keebs, innovation is alive and well in that space

Custom keyboards are really cool! I hope they don’t die out…

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

Me too.. ♥

The keyboard hobby isn't dying, its just shifting. There's actually never been more people in the hobby, and I'm seeing meetups hit numbers people would have only dreamed of. There's a big sense of doomer mentality as some people naturally get bored of the hobby, and I think more people need to just admit they are burned out and need a break. Group buys are bad for the hobby as a whole, but they offer outlets for innovation that would have never been funded by a vendor. They are also getting significantly shorter as brands like QK and WS start board production long before the sale period. However, there's never been more in stock options for people just stumbling on the hobby, there's almost no point to joining a GMK group buy nowadays. The hobby is also the cheapest and most accessible it's ever been, every month another cheaper kit with shorter lead time comes out - and now some incredible boards are available at a fraction of what they would cost in 2020. If anything, it's almost too accessible as most people will only interface with the hobby by purchasing a kit and maybe some keycaps. (But that's okay - not everyone is nerdy enough to buy 10 keyboards) Innovation is probably your strongest point, but as you mentioned - hall effect will be the next big thing and will bring a LOT of gamers into the hobby for the first time. There's also always going to be a really passionate corner of the hobby making things for small runs because they enjoy it, those are the people who will innovate the most.

@Zwylo

3 ай бұрын

Howdy Hey Oh my gosh. I've watched you for years thank you so much for taking the time to comment on my video... ♥😯I agree about the burnout and the cost of boards are thankfully drastically coming down and I'm just concerned about companies trying to pack in premium features and because of the price, putting them out poorly. I want everyone to be able to experience having a flexible sound signature wise and premium feeling keyboard. I'm excited too see how hall effect switches bring more gamers into the hobby as you quite rightly said. I'm intrigued how manufacturers will try to balance being a great sounding switch while keeping it optimal for the hall effect magic. We might even get to a point where hall effect switches sound as nice as some TTC stock switches we never know!! Again thank you so much for commenting. you are one of the keyboard greats in my opinion and I'm still actually shaking as I'm writing this. I will always be eagerly following your channel and uploads and on behalf of the community thanks for making such great vids!

@HipyoTech

3 ай бұрын

Thanks! Means a lot that my videos can have that much of an impact :)@@Zwylo

@nunyadambidniss

3 ай бұрын

Correct Me if I'm mistaken but My main thing besides price is a lack of low profile options ;) Mech Caps sit too high with too much travel compared to scissor switches.

Nice in-depth explanation thanks!

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

You're welcome!

I don't think any of that is true at all... Group buys are far from the only option anymore, pricing for everything is absolutely tanking and you're getting more and more features at lower and lower budgets, and there is still a lot of innovation left (perfect factory lube on more varieties of switches, new mounting systems and finishes and colors which is then repeated for all the different layouts, wireless QMK/VIA specifically with all the functionality which not all current ones have, new foams and reflection layers and color changes to them for better RGB, etc.).

At least they getting so much cheaper fr, GBs and GMK arent even a problem anymore

Im ok with keyboards getting cheaper. Anything over $100 is NOT budget.

@Zwylo

3 ай бұрын

In the Hobby it is. It is ridiculous but hey. thanks for the comment

@MyReviews_karkan

3 ай бұрын

@@0xArkemi lmao. What does that even mean? So just because I don't want to sell my kidney for a keyboard, I'm now a "normie"? You sound like a complete douche. Damn

A more accurate title would be "Why group buys suck". I only recently fell into the keyboard rabbit hole and am finding so much accessible stuff on AliExpress and Amazon. The only thing that annoys me about the hobby is that there is just too many switch options out there - and the only way to know if I'll like a switch is to try it first, which is often not easy in an online marketplace.

i mean how many keyboards do you need xd

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

true I guess xD

sadge 😢

Almost all of these issues are pretty much gone with the Neo, qk, mode, etc boards, especially with qk/neo

@Zwylo

3 ай бұрын

Still pretty expensive though no? Although yeah you are right.

@Jdjdjrb

3 ай бұрын

@@Zwylo also forgot to mention rainy when that becomes in stock, that thing is a monster for 100 dollars

@Zwylo

3 ай бұрын

@@Jdjdjrb Now that is true yes that thing is crazyyyyyy will definitely try and pick one up

I'm kinda glad that it's possible to get 40-60 dollar keyboard which sounds as good as 300+ dollar ones several years ago, if anything, this is progress

There is literally more selection than ever and the prices for solid level barebone sets with great quality builds is next to none now. Got a fantastic Hi75 exploded 75%, currently using some gateron milky yellow pros [using my Boba U4Ts in a different keyboard atm] and some clone cherry mx keycaps all for under £100, and the overall typing experience is phenomenal. I love it. The thing I was hoping you'd mention, especially being a fellow Brit, was those damn ISO layouts. OOOOOOF. The selection for us Brits and a good number of Europeans is definitely smaller, which is something I know is off-putting for a good number of my friends. They want to get into custom keyboards and see loads of great value pre-builds or barebone kits for extremely affordable prices just to find out everything is bloody ANSI only.

@nunyadambidniss

3 ай бұрын

Well My main thing besides price is a lack of low profile options ;) Mech Caps sit too high with too much travel compared to scissor switches.

The problem with the keyboard hobby are the people who are propping up chinese garbage..

Very Well Done/Said my G!🫡 As someone who definitely loves custom keyboarding but never "pulled the trigger" on a stupid expensive build, I will say a lot of these prices are a huge factor in to why,I, personally havent bought/built anything recently! & Trying to get anyone else/friends into the hobby is so tough because there's so many other areas people would feel they want to spend money before a keyboard. Its def a tough one. But like you said if they turn certain things around about the way it's running now they can definitely do some great things

@Zwylo

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words. I agree! ♥