Emma's copy of The Stranger cracks me up every time. That's an amazing thumbnail!

@circleofleaves2676

8 ай бұрын

I know, right. It's so funny. I had made a crack on a previous video that the reason for the video/show delay was that they were struggling to find a camera lens wide enough to see Emma from out behind that ridiculously oversized book.

@celestegobbi1704

8 ай бұрын

@@circleofleaves2676 oh I actually saw that and couldn’t stop laughing for 2 hours straight after I read your comment! Rent free in my brain.

@lunaginebra

8 ай бұрын

True! I totally feel like it’s already an inside joke lol

@circleofleaves2676

8 ай бұрын

@@celestegobbi1704 LOL I'm glad to have invaded your brain in a joyful way :)

Smerdyakov killing the father was in a way justice for raping his mother. Yet the rape was the reason for his own existence. When Smerdyakov took his own life after killing the father, it was almost like erasing the tracks or timeline, turning the clock back, as to kill the father who by his own bad deeds forced Smerdyakov into the world, he was to remove himself from the world, as though he had never been, or wasn’t supposed to be born at all.

I fully teared up when Emma said that their friendship was beautiful and one of the best things in her life. So lovely 😢❤

It cracked me up when they're in the monastery trying to find where they're supposed to go for their meeting with the elder, and Miusov says: "Who the devil is there to ask in this imbecile place?"

Thank God! We got your video together🎊

When caroline says 'man's love for man is inherent' I remember a line...i think it's 'More i love mankind as a whole...less i love man in general'❤ i feel it

One of the most interesting overlaps between the two novels I found was during the trials, and that focus on intent vs action and how it’s almost impossible to ever be completely objective or to be perceived objectively (“objective judgment”, a requirement of any jury, is almost an oxymoron). In both novels they’re judged on their intent, their thoughts, their lives and actions and ways of relating to the world outside of the actual criminal act in question.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yes, both trials are a bit surreal. However, in TBK the defendant on trial faces an uphill battle from the bottom of a mountain of evidence against him. Possibly for the reader the question becomes - as to which Carolyn Emma allude - regardless of the objective truth of their physical actions, are they to some degree deserving of the fate revealed to them?

i can just say for myself but i really enjoyed this format a lot more comparing the two books, i liked how you were able to go into a lot more depth w both and have a really interesting discussion that i fear always ends up a bit lacking for me in the liveshows. obviously it depends on how you both feel about doing this but on my end i do hope you get to film more of these discussion/podcast ig lol type videos for the book club

@circleofleaves2676

8 ай бұрын

It was great to see them have a more in depth discussion about the two books. My ideal format would be to have their discussion pre-recorded, as they've done here, then have a live show with the live chat box turned on following on from there, as I love that interactive/community element happening in "real time" as well. I understand that would be a lot more work/time though. So, definitely no expectations here, just throwing ideas around. But I think that would be awesome. Seeing a discussion first would get people into the headspace (as well as refresh memory of the book content) to then carry on the discussion in real time. I would have loved to see a much more in depth discussion on the Orlando/The Awakening live show, but also I'm a huge Virginia Woolf nerd so, not to toot my own horn, but I think I got a lot more of the both major and minor references that one without as much knowledge of Virginia and Vita perhaps wouldn't have got. I had tabbed the heck out of Orlando and The Awakening and was ready to go to town on the discussion.

The Brothers Karamazov is my favorite book ever written, I will keep re-reading it throughout my life.

Oh my goodness- you two on a podcast would be fantastic! Also Emma, your copy of The Stranger feels like it has a touch of irony, given the topic of existentialism/meaning.

@siobhancrgde

8 ай бұрын

!!!

Camus had a very interesting life, he was a resister during the 2WW and wrote and edited a Resistance publication "Combat" . His life story is as interesting as the books he wrote. His life was tragically cut short by a car accident when he was in his 40s. A sad loss.

Carolyn: Dostoevsky lives on, he's not forgotten. He wrote books and we're still reading them. So he is lasting, even if not in the physical sense. But technically in the physical sense, because you're holding the words that he had in his mind, that he put down on paper. Emma: Yeah, but I'm saying it doesn't matter. The 1,000 books on the shelves behind her: **GASP!!!!!!!!!!!** 😱😱🤬🤬

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, I think we'd need limits before arriving at any determination. IIRC the Old Testament talks a lot about Solomon's Temple and its failure to last, and then maybe the New Testament substitutes a grand temple for a church built upon an unshakable rock. I don't know, but I seem to recall that the Book of Ecclesiastes supports Emma's observation that nothing made by a (hu)man can last forever.

My view is like Carolyn's. Also I want to add that just because meaning is chosen by the individual rather than externally imposed by god\universe doesn't make it "less" or somehow inferior. It just means you have freedom--which is beautiful. Your meaning is what you choose to do here on earth with your time. Spend you time doing the most excitin g, challenging, and interesting thing you want to do. (Rolling around in the grass isn't your meaning in life because it's not difficult and you'd get bored with it quickly.) Do what your heart tells you that to want to do and don't let anyone talk you out of it. Every day can and should be amazing--don't let haters and morons bring you down! Btw I loved the video!

Yay I've been waiting for another video with both of you together ❤️

Great talk! Thanks for taking the time to do this! It reminded me of Emma’s book of the month character with the cuts lol

Very interesting discussion, how we see the world and our part in it, is something we all have to face. Even if you ignore it, it is still right there with you. You can't escape it.

10:15 Emma saying “I don’t understand, and honestly I don’t want to understand; like I just wanna go live in a cottage in the woods…THATS IT” okay but so relatable!!

@ElinoraMilanesi

8 ай бұрын

right

The philosophical conversations that these books brought up are so worthy of time! ❤I’m so glad you’re processing through them together - truly a friendship glue 😊 As I’m sure you know, Dostoyevsky was writing a moral tale with Christian themes, so if you want to see his inspo for the theme of meaninglessness, I’d recommend checking out the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible. It’s only like 5-6 pages. It’s written by this wealthy king, Solomon, who was trying to answer the question for himself. Oh, and you don’t have to have read the rest of the Bible first, and you can read it online, so that’s nice 😅

@sarahallisoncongdon

8 ай бұрын

TBK is my favorite book ever and I never made the connection between Ecclesiastes and the themes in the book! Thank you for adding this insight!

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yes, I believe that you are perfectly correct. Nothing made by a (hu)man can last forever. However, as a model for life Solomon probably is the best example of an Old Testament role model. Not only did he respect his father's greatest wish to build a temple to glorify G-d, he spent his life building something. Solomon unlike his father David tried to earn grace through action - building the temple - while David could only think and believe it would be a good thing.

@covergirlbooks

8 ай бұрын

@@sarahallisoncongdon of course! It’s been inspiration for a lot of writers (the Bible overall, sure, but this portion specifically), you might notice some phrases, like “there’s a season for everything.” 🍂Honestly a great supplement to fall reading ☺️

@kurtfox4944

8 ай бұрын

@@covergirlbooks "A season for everything" reminds me of Dickens Tale of Two Cities first paragraph. Or that 1960s Zombies song. LOL

@covergirlbooks

8 ай бұрын

@@kurtfox4944 it pops up e v e r y w h e r e 🫨

Aww, I just love your friendship ❤. I personally lean more towards Emma's mindset (in my case kinda a self-defence mechanism) but Carolyn's opinion reminds me so much my own bestie. Which is why I enjoy those discussions so much hehe.

A recent subscriber. Very glad I found this channel! Covers exactly the books I either loved reading would love to read. And insightful reviews! Please keep them coming.

This is a beautiful conversation from you two. I feel I understand Emma a lot, and the Brothers put me in a similar state/crisis that she described. But I do continue to wrestle with the ideas from the novel that you both discussed.

I feel this is perhaps the best discussion of two novels that I've heard from both of you and I loved it. A very profound depth to your conversation that was so interesting. Someone once said, 'we are born, we live and then we die, but it is how you live between birth and death where you find meaning'. I feel this is so true.

I love the podcast style!

I’m loving this set up. The back and forth conversation is really interesting and somewhat intense but in a good way. I also like The Stranger to the point where I end up getting another book from Camu (A Happy Death)

I LOVE THIS COLLAB AND THIS VIDEO SO MUCH!

We had 'The outsider' for our english course in law school and i felt it was sooo impactfull that i read it 4 times for the same paper... i iust keep going back to it agian and again! I saw there were recurring themes in camus work regarding his views about capital punishment ... bcz of his absurdist theories... i felt that even in such a small book he portrayed the day to day and minute to minute mental condition of a prisoner in such detail. I loved the opening line of the book...it sets the tone and grips the attention. ' Just brilliant!!!! I'll leave it at that

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yes, if you studied law in the US of A (as I did) you might find some aspects of Mersault's trial objectionable. However, on a very basic level can you say with confidence that he genuinely understood the nature and consequences of his actions?

Loveee this format 🧡 the live shows are great but I definitely liked this better

We will support you both. Keep working hard as always.

I need more of this!!!! Caroline is in her Absurdism era.

I think this is one of my favorite videos, these books were great selections to talk about together. I’ve read both of them. I went through a period a few years ago in which I tried to embrace the idea that everything is meaningless. The effect it had on my mental health was disastrous. There is something within me that INSISTS on meaning. The more I aligned myself with this idea the more my mental health improved dramatically. Emmie started to read my favorite quote from The Brothers, but she cut it short. I love this quote, it rings like a bell of truth in my heart, “I believe like a child that suffering will be healed and made up for, that all the humiliating absurdity of human contradictions will vanish like a pitiful mirage, like the despicable fabrication of the impotent and infinitely small Euclidean mind of man, that in the world’s finale, at the moment of eternal harmony, something so precious will come to pass, that it will suffice for all hearts, for the comforting of all resentments, for the atonement of all the crimes of humanity, of all the blood they’ve shed; that it will make it not only possible to forgive, but to justify all that has happened.” Love to you both!

You two are so different, and this made your conversation interesting. I can understand both of your points of view:)

lol, luv Carolyn's come back.

Loved this! You both have interesting perspectives and I’m with you Carolyn in Lala land and I think I’m happy here 😁😅

I’m deeply fascinated by the story of how Dostoevsky came to faith. He experienced the deepest depravity of man and witnessed extreme poverty. He was imprisoned for his political beliefs and on the day he was supposed to be executed, the guards lined him and others up to be shot firing wall style, and then last second told the prisoners that they weren’t actually going to be executed. It was a sick form of psychological torture that they were experimenting with. It was in prison that he came to believe in God. He had grown up in a Christian home but didn’t believe in a God until much later in life. Dostoevsky struggled throughout his faith with the problem of evil and suffering. How could both God and suffering exist? The character of Ivan emerged from these struggles. I think it’s interesting how both Christians and atheists quote Dostoevsky to defend their worldviews. No one tears down the corruption of the church like Dostoevsky. But also no one speaks to the unique challenges and questions one must wrestle through in order to uphold faith quite like Dostoevsky. Perhaps the one author who does this fractionally as well is CS Lewis. Anyway, thanks for this discussion. I really enjoyed hearing you both tackle some of these topics. I’d love to hear your thoughts upon other philosophical reads!

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for that brief biographical note which if I had been familiar I had forgotten. In reply perhaps I can ask you if the price of being imprisoned was worth the reward of finding God? Possibly Dumas touches on this in the first book of Monte Cristo?

@sarahallisoncongdon

8 ай бұрын

@@jamesduggan7200 If a good and just God is real (which Dostoevsky argues is the case), then I believe any price is worth finding God. Good question. What do you think? I haven’t read Dumas yet but am eager to!

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

@@sarahallisoncongdon well, I've heard too many horror stories about prison to be able to imagine it in a positive light, but on a theoretical plane, why not?

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

@@sarahallisoncongdon Oh, you have no idea what you're missing in Count of monte Cristo - and don't go for the abridged, as they don't do it justice.

@kurtfox4944

8 ай бұрын

"I think it’s interesting how both Christians and atheists quote Dostoevsky to defend their worldviews. No one tears down the corruption of the church like Dostoevsky." I see your point, but ... oooh, I think you are mixing your concepts a bit. I do not equate "Christians" with "Church" (and I think Dostoevsky does likewise). One is a religion and the other is an Organization (a hierarchy of people), supposed to espouse said religion ... and if it were the true religion, then there would only be one Christian Church and only one sect... no Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, Methodists, Protestants, Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, etc X 150+.

Loved the podcast format!! I would religiously listen to podcasts the two of you produce! "Men (and women) are that they might have joy!"

I enjoyed this format and felt it was appropriate for the level of depth these two books. After years of over thinking meaning and feeling so overwhelmed, I decided to join the lala land in my early thirties. I came to a decision. Whether things have meaning or not in the end of it all won’t matter, I might as well live my life in a way where I felt I made the best I could with gifts bestowed on me and left this place a little better for it. Nothing drastic, nothing grand. And if that meant petting cats in the wood, then that is what I would strive to do to the best of my capacities. I will always remain and Ivan in my hamster wheel, but I can bring forth Alyosha. I send you both all my love

Great discussion. Ive read The Stranger a few years ago, and it still haunts me in the best way. If your looking for more of what Camus explores in The Stranger i recommend The Myth of Sisyphus. Its an essay that goes deeper into Camus philosophy. The book acts as a companion to The Stranger. The next best book to follow it up with is The Plague. They're others that share a similar relationship with those you could explore as well. Some are Nausea by Jean-Paul Sartre and She Came to Stay by Simone De Beauvoir. Happy reading.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yes, the Myth of Sisyphus punches well above its weight. Possibly its real power derives from the fact that we know it's fiction but cannot help treating as reality.

You know, your conversation about the church, religion, etc brings to mind a rather remarkable film I came across a few years ago and I have seen it many times since then. It was quite unconventional in its approach, devoid of the usual action, violence, flashbacks, or special effects. Yet, it managed to excel in the art of storytelling, leaving a lasting impression that ranks it among my personal top ten films. The narrative of the film revolved around a university professor, a man of great esteem amongst both colleagues and students. He had dedicated a full decade to the institution, and his impending departure perplexed those who held him in such high regard. His decision to confide in them was driven by a long-held secret, one he felt compelled to share for the very first time. His revelation was nothing short of astonishing - he divulged that he had traversed the Earth for an astonishing twenty thousand years, perpetually moving on every ten years to elude any suspicion stemming from his unchanging appearance. What ensued was a riveting dialogue where each of his friends, experts in their respective fields - biologists, historians, and psychiatrists among them - endeavoured to dissect his extraordinary tale through the prism of their own professions. The plot took an intriguing turn when a deeply devout Christian woman posed a poignant question: Do you believe in God? His unequivocal denial set the stage for a narrative that would challenge established beliefs. He proceeded to recount an extraordinary journey, marked by his training with Buddha and the acquisition of unparalleled skills. However, the passing of Buddha from old age led him to disseminate these teachings in the western world. Sadly, his mission was met with capture, torture, and crucifixion. Employing techniques gleaned from his time with Buddha, he managed to slow his heart rate to the point of apparent lifelessness, facilitating his survival. Confined within a cave for recovery, he was discovered by one of his disciples three days later, inadvertently sowing the seeds of what would become the story of Jesus Christ. For the Christian woman, whose life had been steeped in faith through generations, this revelation was a profound challenge. Imagine attending church since childhood, as had her parents and grandparents, only to be confronted with the assertion that the person beside her was none other than Jesus Christ himself. He claimed that he had been attempting to escape Rome and was accidentally spotted, leading to the creation of an entire religion. Such a revelation would be disorienting for anyone and she breaks down. Even his closest friends began to question his sanity, but he reassured them, explaining that it was all part of a book he was writing to gauge their reactions which allows his friends to keep their sanity and their beliefs. In a stunning twist, it was ultimately revealed that he indeed was Jesus Christ. The film left me utterly astounded, despite its absence of conventional cinematic elements. It was a testament to the power of words and masterful storytelling. What resonated deeply was the contemplation of faith - we have always held Jesus as the son of God, but what if that were not the case? The film artfully demonstrated how such a revelation could challenge the very foundations of religion, leaving many unable to reconcile with this newfound truth, much like the professor's friends in the story. The film is called 'The Man from Earth.' It is not for everybody because the story is not driven by action, but by words, so some may find it boring, but not me. It can be found on KZread.

You guys make me so happy

Omg 😂I can't you got me with your opening lol!!!!! I love it!!!!😂❤❤❤ Best channel ever lol!

our favourite duo ♡♡♡

if nothing matters then why do you place such value on your morals such as being a vegan? About free will vs determinism. Did you choose to be born? Did you believe that you choose to be the way that you are? It's is all pre-determined as are the laws of the universe. Your behaviors, morals, values are all results of pre-existing causes such as genetics, upbringing, environment, and experiences. We don't have true free will to make choices outside of these influences. People immediately start questioning morals when they realize that we have no free will. Mind you that's not to say you cannot still find beauty in your subjective experiences such as everyday moments, relationships, art, nature. Regardless of the underlying philosophical perspective I presented about, one can still find personal fulfillment. Connection and compassion are not out the window just because you believe life is "meaningless" right? The same goes for determinism.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Maybe so; tho in my experience dogmatism provides less comfort than the natural doubts and confusion that defines humanity.

@marim1999

8 ай бұрын

@@jamesduggan7200 That is if comfort is what you are seeking. Also how you choose to define humanity is subject to your own personal values and experiences, everyone will have a different outlook on that. And as I stated in my original comment you can still find beauty (or comfort, in this case) from everyday moments or personal relationships or anything that you personally value. Just because one believes that it will all end one day and we have no free will doesn't mean we can't live in the now and find small pleasures. Hope this makes sense.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

@@marim1999 Well, possibly I'm a poor a judge of what makes sense or doesn't make sense. I will reiterate my belief that doubt is innate.

I read The Brothers Karamazov in high school. Should probably reread but I remember loving it. Dostoevsky's characters are always so compelling. I haven't read The Stranger but I did read Plague. Camus is a great writer if a tad depressing. Good discussion, ladies!

@jmsl_910

8 ай бұрын

ooh!! grab the stranger! it's at most a weekend read BK didn't pull me in

OOOF im so ready for yall to get to the stranger

Definitely have to pick up and read The Brothers Karamazov

CarolynMarieReads Thank you very much! 🍒

I relate soo strongly to people liking ivan... i guess he's relatable to people of now...bcz of the questions he puts and dilemmas he faces and how so possibly living he is( if that makes sense).. i feel soo passionately about him❤ when i read TBK i discussed it page for page...chapter for chapter with my friend (who wasn't reading it) but she just had to listen... it was during the lockdown and i was texting paras after paras in the night/day/noon for her to just read and comment on what i was going through while reading this book.... This book made me think sooo much...about the ideas, about the characters, about dostoevsky, about the contemporary world... I don't remember feeling about a book sooo strongly. Since then i hv found multiple dostoevsky works that hv touched and surprised me in this way. Its my fav book of all time❤

I am in La La Land for sure. One day we will all die, in the mean-time we'll live. Life is meaningless though that is just one more reason to do the virtuous thing, the fruitful thing, the hard work, the kind thing, the fulfilling thing. To continuously take the best next course of action I can take. We all die anyway, but we still live.

"if there is meaning, its selfish" FACTS.

The great thing about Ivan is he WANTS to love. You see this when Aloshya kisses him after the story of the Grand Inquisitor.

It was a beautiful interaction the young women had before they introduced The Stranger. Earlier as they sat apart, one to the bare wall and the other to the bookcase, I perceived the difference in color contrast as representing their difference in faith. Solidifying the theme of diversity and meaning was the thought of Carolyn's perception of the Guardian Angel, and the earthier tone of Emma's faith. The earth has color while the heaven remains beyond description. That is why my whole moment listening was hoping and praying for that last sentence to be read in The Stranger. Staring up at the stars through the small cell window, the fully defined meaning of life and existence merge. It outlines both.

13:00 I realy love how both of you really BECOME the character you are discussing. Emmie = Ivan and Carolyn = Alyosha. It really gave me a giggle more also showed just how deeply this work can settle in someone's heart when you connect with it

i've read both and enjoyed both but it's been so long..! enjoying the discussion though :-)

I've just finnished Martin's book 3 and Emma's saying it all ends reminded me Ygriette: "And if we die, we die. All men must die, Jon Snow. But first, we'll live."

This is my most hotly anticipated video of the year and it absolutely did not disappoint. Phenomenal. Incredible job guys, thank you for this ♥️ (And I’m also very much on the Ivan train; he really is the centre of it all for me, and like you say, the most human.)

You guys are the cutesttttt

now that was deep! can we all gather and save emma? 😅

When Emma reached out for the "ticket to LaLaLand" I had that scene from Spirited Away when Chihiro takes the ticket to get on the train flash into my mind. That movie also sheds light on how meaning stems from our relationships to our own growth as a person, our love for nature, and our love for others, our ability to see others as full persons, to forgive and give second chances. What I'm saying is that I don't believe in an Abrahamic God, but I do believe in the ✨Power of Friendship✨

Will you create a poll The Brothers Karamazov vs The Stanger? I wanted to vote 😅

I recently read 'The Myth of Sisyphus' by Camus and he was talking about Dostoevsky's 'The Possessed' but also shortlyy about TBK and he claims that "one commentator (Boris de Schloezer) correctly pointed out that Dostoevsky is on Ivan's side and that the affirmative chapters took three months of efforts whereas what he called 'the blasphemies' were written im three weeks in a state of excitement." I find that to be quite logical and really funny, since my favorite character was also Ivan and everything you say about him is so true. I think he's the most conflicted about everything; about the world, the people, religion and life and even himself. I also kind of see the three brothers as a climax from least to most flawed 😅. It's kind of funny to look at it that way.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yes, I agree: Free will is a conflict. Possibly it's what some people mean when they talk about a social contract? I don't know, but there do seem to be things I want to do but may not (at a time and/or a place).

@oak_leaf

8 ай бұрын

How interesting

13;05 I FEEEEEEEEL IVAN & YOU EMMA

I definitely lean more toward Emma’s perspective of life, however, I just finished reading “Alive in the Light” by Andy Petro and although I do not believe in the Christian perspective of heaven and hell, I do like to think there is something that happens in the afterlife that makes this current life meaningful in some way (much like Carolyn expressed).

oh my goodness - you are both so incredibly dimensional and articulate 🤍 thank you so much for continuing to share your thoughts with us 🤍

I love this format! I felt so much more engaged by this conversation and the chemistry between the two of you as friends was so much more palpable. Please do something like this again! Even if it's just audio!

Great discussion! I was riveted to the point that I had to stop what I was doing (cooking lunch) so that I could 100% listen. I could understand both of your outlooks….I’m a Libra 😂🤣😂 Anyway, we’ll done! 👏 Loved it. ❤

@lynn8062

8 ай бұрын

Well done!

Where is that version of The Brother Karamazov from?

Liked the moment Carolyne's idea about religion and personal ethics does not have to go together. It would saved many lives in those horor of religion wars. This is a good conversation, thank you.

I think a fun episode could be reading The Leopard by Lampedusa and either The Octopus by Frank Norris or The Mountain Lion by Jean Stafford.

Thank you! It was interesting to follow your thoughts on this book! But now when I know the plot, I do not feel that I want to actually read that book right now. Maybe some day, but right this topic doesn't resonate with me

@kurtfox4944

8 ай бұрын

The books are not really about plot. They are more about character, morality and philosophic intraspection and exploration.

* long deep sigh * I have so much to say but at the same time I am so bottled up because I have been living with this exact discourse in my head for at least 10 years lol... d r e a d On the bright side: I really loved this video format for the debate, I also feel like it fits perfectly due to the books discussed (specially The Brothers Karamazov) so yeah, thank you and sending you lots of love ❤

❤

💗💗💗

Wonderful discussion 🖤 I loved both books, both made me cry and now I have to recover thank you ladies 😂. TBK is now an all time favourite 🙌 and I identify with both Alyosha and Ivan. I think Dostoyevsky was trying to tell us that the way of happiness is love and to have a transcendent connection with a higher power. Being an Ivan will led you to feel lost, with much on your shoulders and there’s such a thing as intellectualizing everything can drive you mad. Ps. Can we have a podcast with you two?! That would be amazing 🙏🥰

I'm just starting this book(🇳🇵🇳🇵🇳🇵)

Carolyn, I am glad you got to read Karamazov before choking on a chicken bone... LOL! (I told you it was worth it)

Thanks; perhaps some of these questions work better in other settings, such as war, chronic illness, or childbirth> I don't really know (either). The question of free will for me typically is a situation where of course I could do what I please but to do so considering what certainly will come afterward is crazy. We see it in chess all the time: A player for example may have developed a brilliant, beautiful plan involving say moving the king toward the center only to be forced to completely eschew to answer the reality of the moment.

@kurtfox4944

8 ай бұрын

'Man makes plans . . . and God laughs.' Some of the discourse of the video was starting to venture (exploratory and informal) into collegiate philosophy courses, especially ethics. You could literally spend months discussing the various philosophies raised in these two books.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

@@kurtfox4944 I did pretty well on my Ethics exam after graduating Law School. To be honest, I very much doubt that my Ethics professor could stand the sight of me or the sound of my voice. For practicing attorneys perhaps ethics is a theoretical question, best left to college professors.

Great discussion, I'm definitely more of an Emma than a Carolyn when it comes to stands in this debate lol

26:26 - Emma: No 😂literally me at the same time lol. Also... freakily speaking of existence.. we both said no at 26 26 and I was born on the 26th

I've never needed to read the brothers Karamazov more..... grabbing my copy right NOw

I don't see the connection between Ivan and Morceau. The first one is full of emotions. He struggles with God and with himself. He would love to be in Morceau's skin and not to feel but, unfortunately for him, he is not like that. Morceau doesn't care, doesn't question. He says 'I don't know if God exists and don't want to know' (paraphrasing) because he wouldn't be bothered while Ivan says the very same thing but because it hurst him too much to investigate. The image of child being abused by their parents and afterward being awarded in heaven (from the conversation with Alosza) don't leave me and I think this is something Ivan wanted to get rid off. By the way, Dmitrij reminds me someone close to my heart and it was yet another painful topic for me. His passions - thw anger and love fighting within him resonated with me strongly. I feel for him and his process has devastated me. I'm greatful for being given motivation to read a russian classic after quite a long pause. All the works that I know, from different authors, are impressive.

Say what you mean and mean what you say!

No one says life is meaningless. It is foolish to say that life is meaningless. The question is not whether life is meaningful or meaningless, but whether we can properly understand others, morality, and the world. Or it is a matter of realizing and acknowledging our ignorance, which means we can never fully understand anything.

33:47 but it does matter!! When the bad is systemic (which, more often than not, it is), how can it possibly not matter?

اذا كانت الحياة فعلا لا معنى لها ، لماذا نحتاج ان نشعر ان لها معنى ؟ اذا كان هذا الشعور وهم وضعف بشري لماذا يصدر ؟ لماذا نشعر بالحاجه لمعرفة الجواب؟ الجواب بسيط لأن الجواب له وجود نحن فقط خائفين من عدم وجوده

that was the best book discussion I've heard in a while, aside from at my bookclub of course

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Yes, I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately for us because it was so special it means we can only hope for something like this every once in a while. : (

As a Christian I am firmly on team Alyosha. He's very Captain America-esque. I found your discussion interesting. I couldn't stand the man in The Stranger. He was completely self-centered. He has no place in society because his lack of morality steps on everyone else's wellbeing. He set that girl up to be abused by his "friend", he turned a blind eye to the animal abuse across the hall, and then he murdered a man for absolutely no reason. Civilization wouldn't exist if everyone behaved that way. It would be Lord of the Flies. I did agreed with Emma about living in a cabin in the woods surrounded by wildlife and cats. That would be delightful. When I get to Heaven I want a grizzly bear friend. 🐻

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Possibly you would like Mersault more if you read his story as the retelling of a strange dream he had while suffering through the early days of the loss of his mother. I don't know but I think then the story becomes less absurd.

You're both beautifully meaningful to me, in a very selfish way ;)

i may be a unicorn, but i do not strive for connection. i adore my children & my strong circle of girlfriends. but beyond that, i wouldn't say i "strive" for any relationships with others

Emma! please Make your podcast like the channel books unbound. It will be a lot prettier 🌹

I'm on Carolyn's. Though for me, i don't think "the truth" behind this world is relative. And yeah life has meaning. There must be a justification for all these things we have to go through.

IMO, Sartre's philosophy is better than Camus's. He says the world is intrinsically meaningless, but you get to define the meaning for yourself (or something like that). His best work is the "Roads to Freedom" trilogy.

@jamesduggan7200

8 ай бұрын

Of course it's easy to object to a word like 'better' but I tend to agree with you although Camus is much, much easy to digest than Sartre is, IMHO.

The grand inquisitor is classic acceptance of Sartre’s bad faith. We are free, but the responsibility is too great. “I know fascism is on the rise, but I have a wooden leg”

Emma 21:30 saying that this book is absurdist... was she talking about the gigantic picture book sized copy, or the content itself. LOL

every time emma speaks about the meaninglessness of life she reminds me of the boygenius lyric “if nothing matters, man that’s a relief”

Wait a minute?! I wanted Carolyn to go into why she didn’t rate Brothers K? Ugh.

:Ladies, you're spectacular

A beautiful conversation 😊 I'm with Emma personally but I have tons of respect for Carolyn's stubborn cosmological optimism (and also personally I enjoyed the hell out of both books)

I cant express how much I HATED the Brothers Karamazov!! 2 stars cuz the back 3d was just ok, i wouldve stopped reading if i hadnt bought such a fancy copy The Outsider got 4 stars, i really enjoyed it and the writing, also managed to talk about the same thing in a way shorter, more interesting book

mães.

I would think The Stranger might have paired better with Crime and Punishment. Crime and Punishment - Raskolnikov thinks he is above crime because he is too important. But, Raskolnikov breaks down because of emotion. The Stranger - no reason for murder; the crime is meaningless. On trial for (murder and) showing no emotion. FWIW, The Stranger writing as bland and boring is reflective of the apathetic attitude towards life; I think it was intentionally written that way.