IMPORTANT: I'm really dumb and didn't check our export file very well. Half of our benchmark charts are missing and I *really* apologize for not catching this before I pushed "publish." It won't happen again. Please see this Google Sheets link with all of the data we collected for better insights on how it compares to PC GPUs. snazzy.fm/fx

@liamsz

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for clarifying Quinn!

@fabiandrinksmilk6205

11 ай бұрын

I see that you are using the System76 Launch keyboard. What are your thoughts on it and the company behind it? I love mine and I have just recently bought the Pangolin laptop as well.

@pyromethious

11 ай бұрын

Did you Really mean M1 Pro / Max early on? As opposed to M2.

@tonystark1073

11 ай бұрын

you can still delete the video and reupload

@snazzy

11 ай бұрын

@@tonystark1073 KZreadrs know that you really can’t.

I can’t believe we got a stopgap Apple Silicon Mac Pro right after the stopgap Intel Mac Pro.

@XXXRIPROACH

11 ай бұрын

After the stop gap iMac Pro

@johnwade7430

11 ай бұрын

What do you think that the iMac Pro was then?

@RealJoseph123

11 ай бұрын

@@johnwade7430The leaked 4 M1/2 Ultra chips the past leaks were saying. And what the video was talking about.

@wescrowther655

11 ай бұрын

Or every stop gap mac that instantly thermal throttled since 2014 cause intel couldn’t make an m1.

@Parmigiano1

11 ай бұрын

Makes sense. M2 feels like stopgap before M3 anyways.

Pegasus made a 32 TB raid array that was compatible with the previous generation Mac Pro. It use the MPX slot, and on Apple own website is advertised as being compatible with the current generation 2023 Mac Pro. Spoiler alert, it isn’t.

@watema3381

11 ай бұрын

Massive L

@harmvzon

11 ай бұрын

Imagine being Pegasus. Can’t imagine this card being sold enough to recover the development costs.

@citywitt3202

11 ай бұрын

@@harmvzon imagine being the customer who sees no GPUs work and orders 3 of those to make up for it 😂

@hhkk6155

11 ай бұрын

Typical Apple 😅

@nateo200

11 ай бұрын

Holy crap I'd be infuriated lol

Man, that is once again probably the most honest and level headed Mac prospective I've seen.

@retronymph

11 ай бұрын

Perspective*

@PerfectSoundRS

11 ай бұрын

Linus did it better IMHO

Great review and specifics about Mac Pro that actually are helpful. Would love a retrofit for the existing case. Would love to get more life out of it.

@robertp457

11 ай бұрын

This is the thing I don't understand most people not mentioning at all. To get the new Mac Pro, you have to buy a new case, power supply and fans to replace the identical case, power supply and fans...why?!

The thunderbolt future that Phil was so excited about back in 2013 has finally happened now a decade later.

@CarlosStorms

11 ай бұрын

and to their detriment

@TazzSmk

11 ай бұрын

Thunderbolt is already dead being replaced by USB-4 standard

@Wokiis

11 ай бұрын

@@TazzSmk Not remotely close to my point but Thunderbolt is exactly what they baked into USB4, so obviously it lives on and all serious I/O equipment gets certified for Thunderbolt still.

@RokeJulianLockhart.s13ouq

11 ай бұрын

​@@TazzSmkTB4 is still the better version of USB4.

@M4rio21

11 ай бұрын

Definitely a newb since I thought usb4 was just a newer version of thunderbolt 😅

I think they missed a huge opportunity with a „Mac Pro/Mac Studio“ in a 1U rack mount chassis. Considering all the rack mounted thunderbolt hardware and the acceptable success of the Rack mount Mac Pro, a slim 1U M2 Ultra Mac with fat networking and a buttload of thunderbolt would fill that professional gap.

@AntonKuznetsovMusic

11 ай бұрын

That’s actually a really good idea

@rdsii64

11 ай бұрын

@@AntonKuznetsovMusic 1U would be to loud. 2U would be a much better choice.

@AntonKuznetsovMusic

11 ай бұрын

@@rdsii64 I think OP meant a quite U1 😜

@SquintyGears

11 ай бұрын

​@@rdsii64the form factor isn't what makes anything loud. Going from the cooling they made for the mac Studio they could easily fit 1U and it'll be just as quiet.

@harmvzon

11 ай бұрын

@@rdsii64loud, why? The cooling doesn’t need to be beefy.

You could do a video with Neil Parfitt on the pro. He's a composer who bought a Mac Pro, and a very amusing guy. His biggest issue was the cross compatibility of software that worked on an Intel Mac Pro but didn't work at all on a Mac studio and also when firmware updates come through, it is a total gamble for them that their software and plugins will actually work at all. Something that could potentially massively affect their ability to work and therefore earn money.

@williamsmillie

11 ай бұрын

He has some great videos, including his series on the ER-301 Sound Computer Eurorack Module!

I think for this form of computing (desktop/tower), Windows/Linux PCs may still have the edge. What killed it for me was the PCI-e's underutilized potential. At the moment, the biggest advantage of the awesome Apple silicons are mini-PCs. Small computers that doesn't lack big performance. I see a lot of businesses in the future, moving towards small form factor which in the case of Apple, the Mac Mini. Awesome video Quinn.

BINGO! My 2019 is safe from replacement for now. You want to see the new Mac Pro completely destroyed, run a comparison with a W6800 duo. And the memory limitations are potentially an issue too for many as there are workflows that need more than 192 GB.

they really need to bring back GPU Support, internal and external. These integrated GPUs are nice in the Performance per Watt regard but for anything serious they're to compromised.

@TheStopwatchGod

11 ай бұрын

dedicated GPUs are too in-efficient for Apple Silicon, but I guess for a desktop computer where energy-efficiency isn't a factor, Apple could cram a dGPU into the Mac Pro Heatsink

@AngryApple

11 ай бұрын

@@TheStopwatchGod this is why they should support thunderbolts docks again with eGPUs

I think they released it just so they can say, "We've finally finished our transition" in the next Apple event or something.

@KlavierGayming

11 ай бұрын

i mean that's literally what they did (sorry if i'm missing satire here im tired asf)

I have one - maxed out - and I love it. I can't believe the speed and precision of the renders I'm getting. If I'd bought the Mac Studio with the same M2 Ultra I wouldn't have internal SATA ports, upgradable storage, eight thunderbolt ports or the ability to put afterburner cards or RAID storage into the PCI lanes.

Apple needs to bring back the Xserve with Apple Silicon. Imagine a silent, relatively low power, media ingest/render farm server with an M2 Ultra or Steve Jobs forbid, more than one M2 Ultra chips running ala NUMA Nodes. Top of the line media capabilities with top of the line efficiency. That's where I see ARM chips with dedicated media engines like these M-series chips shine.

@D0x1511af

11 ай бұрын

RISC-V and open standard will devour this M2 chip.... nobody buy pro machine with planned obsolescence hardware

@notme8232

22 күн бұрын

Unless it comes with native Linux support, never gonna happen.

it would be nice to add a "lower is better", "higher is better" caption to your charts, cos not all of us understand these numbers.

This is what I said on MKBHD’s vid and I do agree! I don’t think this is a send off to the Mac Pro. I think this is just the result of getting extremely poor yield on the higher end M2 that they couldn’t feasibly put it in there even if it cost a lot more as they wouldn’t mind it. It would also explain why this machine missed the 2 year mark by a full year of probably trying everything to get the yield up. It honestly reminds me of AirPower and how, technically, they had it working, but they just couldn’t get most of them within the heat tolerance for mass production.

@SquintyGears

11 ай бұрын

The problem is you're clearly still thinking they're going to keep the line going at the same time as you're describing the similarities to a product that they had to can. In this case the product came to market, but nobody should buy it. So the sales are going to be pitiful and it's very likely that studio is the new pro.

@irod97

11 ай бұрын

These are ways in Tim Cook operates versus Steve Jobs. Jobs would've never let this Mac go to market. It fills no need. Unless Apple drastically improves graphics performance or somehow figures out how to create the ability to support GPUs over Apple Silicon, there's no reason to create a Pro unit over the existing Studio systems.

@D0x1511af

11 ай бұрын

@@irod97 spotted on with the recent VR headset release....they're likely to focus on that...

It is technologically possible to add additional RAM and dGPUs to Apple Silicon. I hope they’ll bring that to a future version of Mac Pro because there definitely are pro workflows that require crazy amounts of memory and graphics.

I think you're right. The super early leaks were discussing the 'Jade-C' (M1 Max) 'Jade-C Chop' (M1 Pro), the 'Jade-2C' (M1 Max) and a Jade-4C. That leak was absolutely bang on the head except for the 4C. It just, never came. However, I'm not sure that the die size is the primary driver, given nvidia's GH100 is at 800mm2, my guess would be the interposer tech being a problem when working with 4 dies rather than 2. Adding to that, they've painted themselves into this corner by steadfastly refusing to support NUMA on macOS-- so they can't just break it out to a slower interconnect and bang another SoC in, without having to make big changes to macOS to prevent the performance tanking

Been waiting on this vid. The Mac Pro 2023 could have been somewhat of a solid value add at it's current state, if wasn't $3k just for the internal PCIe slots that are for storage expansion/IO or had a massive performance uptick and higher base specs than the Mac Studio. Since it's neither, it exists in for a very small subset of users. Hopefully, the Mac Pro finds its way to some sort of upgradability in the next iteration.

Excellent video. Explains a lot. Thanks.

dude, I always like the discussions that you have, amazing videos and really cool insight!!

UAD plugins used to run exclusively on their external DSP processors, or their audio interfaces which included DSP, but a few months ago they added support for their plugins to run natively (causing quite the uproar for those who spent thousands on external DSP processors). Waves also allowed for this, you used to have to use their DSP servers for "live" audio processing (i.e external processing on a digital mixing console), but they also recently released SuperRack performer, again allowing you to do all your live processing on your laptop. Latency is definitely not as good as a dedicated DSP processor, however still in an acceptable range (5ms compared to less than 1ms) Companies are definitely keeping native plugin support alive, and it's probably due to the immense processing capabilities of newer chips.

I'm honestly happy i bought my Mac Pro 2019 back in summer 2020! The only thing i need to upgrade is the GPU. But anything else is good! I can go on with this for some time. 🙂

Great video, well structured and very accurate except for the ending: no, it’s not true that 3D artists and animators need this much GPU power and this is a myth growing recently with the new Apple silicon. I can not put it too politely otherwise it will take me forever but it’s simple - junior artists, KZreadrs, boutique house artists will think they need a ton of GPU power to work with, a senior artist at high end facilities will work with a gtx1080 any day. The only exception is with unreal and unity or any game engine being used for real-time rendering or close to real-time final quality. Not only they know and need to optimize their scenes but they also know that when they press render they depend mainly on ray traced cpu unbiased render engines. A lot of high end CG isn’t being done in redshift or octane (GPU based engines) but still being done with multiple GI bounces that need a lot of cpu. That’s why cinebench has a cpu and GPU test. And it’s the cpu type of render (those squares are literally the threads of CPU) that builds most of the CG when working in Maya or 3DS max. You can check James Boyle KZread channel for a good M1 Max review in the CG context. For a boutique house and freelancers this chip is more than enough and a great value for money. In big post houses it’s all running on Linux based render blades that are barely above a gtx2080. Source: im VFX Supervisor that works with the biggest post production studios around. I hate to see this myth grow because if there is one thing that is painful is working in windows just because you think you need a massive GPU to model or animate something, or Linux to get anything done. This information just makes things intimidating and it’s just not accurate. If you know what you are doing in a 3D package you know how to keep things moving fast.

@notme8232

22 күн бұрын

Besides, anyone who actually needs GPU muscle moved to a PC years ago.

This is exactly why I love my 2019 Mac Pro which I purchased in 2022 seeing I only wanted Intel which goes along with it just like a normal PC. I did the same with my 2012 Mac Pro holding out for the announcement of trash can and the day of the announcement I bought the 2012 Mac Pro knowing it was the older version at that point. Call me old school but I needed and still do PCIe and back then had TBs of 10K rpm spinning rust which is now converted into solid state. Not to mention my CPU was the 8 core on the 2019 which is now a 16 core plus ram I keep adding when I see fit. I like macs but with a PC style approach. Prob why I’ve gravitated to the Mac Pro. Main use is music creation, also photo and video editor of the family. Hence the big library of photos, videos, documents of at least 12 people other then me. Then there’s my music samples, plug-ins, programs and the rest. That’s the macOS side of my needs. I also either have PC just for gaming (currently do) but with my 5,1 I used a SSD using the second sata port for another DVD drive which was my boot camp drive. Back then nvidia and apple played ball so I always had either the current x80 or last gens x80. My last one that I used in the 5,1 was a GTX980. Plus I would flash the firmware to support boot screen support and nvidia used to release drivers fairly regularly. First AMD card I ever owned was a RX580 when I decided to upgrade to Mojave as it was a better option then the GTX680 that was supported. Haven’t done bootcamp yet on the 7,1 yet as my PC still plenty full. Plus I prefer nvidia. Though would like to run a bunch of test on it with the W5700x Pro I have and my RTX4090. Haven’t been able to find anyone who has tried it yet. Anyway I do believe this new model is a stop gap, they must of ran out of time or something similar.

what they should have done is remove the graphics storage and ram from the chip and make them their own stuff so you can upgrade them or maybe a gpu override so it supports gpus

@notme8232

22 күн бұрын

So basically, turn it into a PC?

@Lukepuke311

22 күн бұрын

@@notme8232 kinda but still have it be ARM

Here's a one line summary of this machine.... 'It offers the perfect reason to jump ship and just buy a more powerful, faster, top end PC that will beat it in almost all productivity tasks... and then take all the money you saved to buy a macbook pro too'.. I mean the M2 Ultra GPU in cinebench is only par with the GeForce RTX 4060 Ti (thats just a low end $380 nvidia gpu). Just makes a $10000+ Apple price insane when compared to PC equivalence in benchmarks, same for DaVinci Resolve or the Adobe Suite. Then you just compare components like RAM, and the Apple tax is just crazy, 10x the price for what used to be off the shelf parts. Honestly why anyone these days pays all that money for a top end Mac Pro workstation is beyond me when it gets hammered by a PC at half the price.

@notme8232

22 күн бұрын

Yeah, it's honestly insane for any pro that doesn't rely on Final Cut/Logic Pro to even consider a Mac Pro, and even then, it's a bit dumb for them to not jump ship at this point.

I want a Mac Pro to match my XDR but I would like a smaller box with the same design.

Shrink form factor, make entire board upgradable, fill rear with ports, add great speakers, keep exterior style and I'll buy one

Recording studios are the only music department that need the PCIe HDX cards, as they are the only thing that give no latency on input monitoring for musicians - specifically large studios. The other interfaces you mention can only give low latency which isn't good enough for a professional studio. Everyone else I know who used to use the Mac Pro 2019 for their home studio setups is moving to the Mac Studio, including myself. The external Thunderbolt PCI expansion chassis aren't reliable enough yet, but if they get better, there would no need for the new Mac Pro in recording studios either.

Before they released it, I was wondering if they'd have an Apple Silicon-based PCIe GPU to go in the newest Mac Pro... It would make sense to not support other GPUs if they wanted people to use their own. Still wondering if they may be working on it but haven't gotten it working yet...

Love your takes Quinn!

I just don’t get why the didn’t enable the Mac Pro to use dedicated graphics. How hard could it be?

It's for a very specific set of people who wanted a mac studio but need extra PCIe lanes for their work.

@floofy5529

11 ай бұрын

And yet you'll see people this machine wasn't built for complain about it and how it's so bad and expensive for their needs like gaming.

Very insightful. This basically answered my question about if I should upgrade my 2019 Mac Pro to a newer one, but it doesn't really look like it's worth it if the only big upgrade I'd be getting is the M2-M3 chips. Which Mac would you prefer I upgrade to? The Mac Studio? Right now I have a 2019 Mac Pro running with the Xeon (12 core), 96GB of RAM, and the lousy Radeon 580, lol; 1TB installed PCIE NVME SSD as my boot drive, and 6TB additional SSD installed PCIE NVME as well. So, yeah, I'm wondering if most of my money would be spent on internal storage since I work with a ton of audio at the pro level. Just seems like a waste to purchase the 2023 Mac Pro and they've scrapped RAM modules, PCIE (with GPU functionality), etc...

Saturday, as I was trying to reroute all the external drives and USB devices, because my Qwiizlab USB C Hub died, I was thinking how badly I wash the Mac Pro wasn’t over priced. That’s the computer I need. I just can’t justify the price.

Still loving the Mac Pro 2019. The best Apple computer that I had in my life. Just for the pcie and the cpu upgrade options is a Killler. Even with Apple silicon on the table.

The competition for the Mac Pro is things like the Lenovo ThinkStation and HP Z-Series workstations. You can easily spec those out to be $60,000 + My ThinkStation P620 has 256GB RAM, which is more than a Maxed out MacPro can have, and I could upgrade it to 2TB for about €65,000 + import tax. I'll wait until it gets a lot cheaper before doing that. It can take 4 GPUs. I have two at the moment, one is a potato-card where the only requirement is that it has a display-out that can do 4k60, the other is a GTX 3080Ti.

@Pasi123

11 ай бұрын

Even my 2012/2013 ThinkStation S30 can take 256GB RAM, which like you said is more than the maxed out Mac Pro can have. Though I only have 64GB (4x 16GB) in it, but DDR3 Reg ECC is dirt cheap so I could get another 64GB kit for

@spikatrix1486

11 ай бұрын

Curious to know, what do you do on your workstation?

@katrinabryce

11 ай бұрын

@@spikatrix1486 I do lots of data analysis on big datasets mostly.

Yea, PCIe-based Pro Tools systems are pretty antiquated at this point, and seem to be getting phased out except for very specific uses cases (scoring, post, that kind of thing)

Are you getting those 6950 xt numbers under windows or Sonoma? I read a review that said the AMD driver was out of date and the only way to get good performance was in windows

Might be buying time for the next leap for M3 and then start difference on the studio and pro, with a updated design and something more unique than this pale update of the pro, studio was great 👌🏻 M3 can’t come fast enough

I think you’re right. I just built a Ryzen 5600x system with 32gb ram /1tb ssd, and an nvidia 1060 gpu. It was fun. It was cheeesaaapppp. It is screaming fast.

I said it when they revealed it live in the keynote, if I were someone who was ecstatic about Mac Pro transitioning to Apple Silicon, I would have been furious.

I think the only reason why this Mac Pro was released was because of Tim's promise to transition completely to Apple Silicon in 2 years. It's been over 2 years, and the Mac they want would probably take a few years longer. So they put this out to satisfy their timeline (still over 2 years, but not going to be 4) and customers as they work out a new product which will be ready in minimum 2 years, or probably even longer than that.

I think you are on to something here, this is not the Mac Pro Apple intended to release and the use case for it might have changed slightly? It will be interesting to see how the future for Mac Pro looks in the coming years.

Meanwhile Apple should give their Apple Intel Mac Pro customers another GPU upgrade with AMD 7000 Series GPU"s so they can at least be happy instead of disappointed while Apple finishes their transition with REAL GPU power.

@harmvzon

11 ай бұрын

Then the ‘old’ MacPro would be so much faster than a M2 Ultra. They would never allow that. Apple never cared for Gpu power. Nor will they now.

As an audio pro who bought his first Quad Core G5 in 2006, the Mac Pro died long ago…from 2009 till silicon was the great era of the Hackintoshs. Now will be the era of the Mac Studio, despite the fact, that I haaaate external storage!!!😂

When Apple released M1, the big question was what was going to happen with the desktop line. I think Apple either did not have a solution at the time, and maybe the solution is in progress. As far as I see it. The Mac hardware is gone, we only have supersized iPhone hardware. I am not sure if this is good or bad, but without even one computer without serious GPU capabilities the Mac software support is going to be an issue. Who is going to take any Mac seriously for animation, CAD, 3D modelling, etc.?

@btn237

11 ай бұрын

I’m using my M1 Max MacBook Pro for 3D modelling and animation daily. I don’t understand the perspective of these type of comments (no one can use macs for 3D) - people did 3D work for like 30 years on hardware nowhere near as powerful as the current gen of computers. Entire CG movies such as Avatar or Transformers made with hardware less powerful than today. The Matrix movie in 1999 used computers with Pentium 2 processors, no such thing as GPU rendering. Macs are completely viable for working in 3D, even if you don’t get the same GPU horsepower as a desktop PC. My MacBook loads a complex scene faster and achieves higher viewport editing performance than my top of the line desktop PC due to the efficiencies.

okay, the only reason to get this is if you already have the setup and you need something that can fit exactly in the place if the old one

Sounds like the mac pro should be a mac studio in a 19 inch rack mount chassis with extra thunderbolt ports

Quinn, I've been watching your videos for quite a few years now, and IMHO, not many creators - if any - deserve the success you've achieved with your channel thus far. The most important improvement, again IMO, is the writing. Yeah the video has gotten better, the audio, the setups, the editing, the quality control -- but man you're at the point now where your script alone can be an article published in a high-end tech magazine. Perhaps you'd lose money in writing for a separate outlet rather than spending that time on the videos for your own channel, which likely create more revenue in the short and long term; but I thought I would nonetheless throw that idea out there. If you did publish written pieces, I think they would be extremely successful, and I personally would be all in for it. Have a great night man.

I suspect the M3 will have improved GPUs along with raytracing hardware much like the media engines for video processing. And the MacPro should have, for the price, given the user more RAM for the base configuration. What were they thinking?

@tonyburzio4107

11 ай бұрын

How about a Mac Pro with 4 M3 Ultra chips running in a parallel cluster?

I fully agree. I was hoping the Mac Pro would be the 3D rendering, Ray Tracing Cuda killer playing AAA games at 200fps as a trivial side job....without even breaking a sweat....Price be damned. Nope.... far worse than I expected was the lack of support for GPUs altogether.

Ive always felt that this mac pro was released just so they can say they finished the apple silicon changeover, and theyll release something that isnt a mac studio in a cheesegrater case sometime in the future. would be cool if they returned to the trashcan mac chassis just for the memes

@TheStopwatchGod

11 ай бұрын

Yes Trashcan Mac Pro with 2x M2 Ultra and a ton of Thunderbolt 4 ports

Anyone considering a Mac Studio or Mac Pro should watch your review, and also Linus’. You’re both tough, and fair. But Quinn, you’re never going to get that sweet, sweet Gruber-love from Apple with reviews like this 😢

I have a Mac Studio M2 Ultra now as well as the Mac Studio M1 Max upgraded. I agree the Mac Pro (I owned all the previous ones going back to the Mac IIfx) is an unnecessary device, but for a very few. Yet, I do recall the discussions pre the Mac Studios release by so many semi pros, on various blogs, demanding Apple release another Mac Pro with an expansion bus. I say bravo Apple for giving s what we all needed as well as what most of us don't. It's probably for Apple's in house use, a few specialty cases and as a hell of a flag ship; the new Mac Pro is a beast. Dell has its insanely high end Precision Work stations too, I have one which when new was around $20,000. Prestige car makers tend to have ridiculously powerful models too. People buying the consumer models don't bitch about the ones they can't afford, they read all about them, and wish. So again I say, great job Apple. Next, I can't wait to get my hands on the Apple Vision Pro. Again critics of price need to read up about such things as light frequency modulating LEDs, and support for spectral lines, understand HDR and the importance of the ability to see textural changes due to light modulation. Then they might understand the Apple 6K monitor's pricing too.

So has the used market on Intel Mac Pro's now gone done in price to make them worthwhile since they're not current? Is there any niche and not crazy expensive use for them now?

Great video it covered everything I could think of! Which their are Music production channels saying it's bad for music production... So Yeah I hop apple just hit a road bump and this isn't a grand master plan to cancel the Mac Pro.

It seems that the Apple ethos on hardware right now is that if you can't do it on the "package" its not happening, so likely they are waiting for genuine N3 fab to bump the GPU cores, that and software better optimised for Metal, if it lies outside that envelope it's not sustainably economical.

This is probably as spot on as it gets with this strange machine. Everyone tries to argue that it is for a very certain, very important, sub-set of a niche group but the only real world fact is that it lacks support of proper GPUs and going forward that is the one single thing that matters. Hopefully we will see a new version in the coming year...

I think MKBHD put it best when he commented on this and Apple making stop gap products for their silicon. The M1 line of laptops was the example he used where the original M1 air and 13” pro used the same chasis as the intel models, then with the M2 and M1 Pro respectively they redesigned the entire unit. I think the Mac Pro will come back in a different manner, maybe something like the studio just with an exorbitant amount of thunderbolt ports.

Can it run Microsoft Access?

at this point i would just cut mac pro loose…

@snazzy

11 ай бұрын

Just don’t cut it loose above anyone’s head. The thing is so heavy it’s assured death.

@citywitt3202

11 ай бұрын

@@snazzy someone should really motorised the wheels and see if they can steer it via remote down a hill

shared pci lanes for the slots, so no threadripper pro there either.

At this point, Apple Silicon is competing against itself. Sure, Nvidia still has an edge in 3D but that is a dedicated GPU vs an integrated GPU which is crazy. Technically there is nothing stoping Apple from allowing third party GPU in the future. Can't wait for 3rd and 4th generation

Always fond of his videos 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Back when we had the "cheesegrater" MacPro, I remember wanting one so so bad. The design was sleek, modular / upgradeable and it supported a graphics card. At the time I couldn't afford it and Apple moved on to the "trashcan" and I no longer wanted one. I was super excited when the '19 came out & wanted one, but again was priced out of getting one -- which I'm thankful for -- because then the M1 came out.. I already had a late 2012 Mini Server & was happy with it, but when I got the M1 Mini I remember being blown away at how good it is. (I still use it as my daily driver.) I think one of 2 things needs to happen if the Pro model is going to stick around: Either they need to support AMD or Nvidia GPUs or they need to make their own that can compete with the other two. Otherwise I agree: There is no need for the Mac Pro anymore -- and certainly not at the ridiculous pricing for what is essentially a mini with expansion slots.

@JosifovGjorgi

11 ай бұрын

Separate CPU and GPU provides the best flexibility, however Apple sells ton more consumer equipment (which can run on SOC just fine) then Pro equipment. For Apple, Pro equipment (separate CPU and GPU) isn't profitable enough (as in R&D) to justified to be separate from consumer equipment

they should have used the tin-can chassis for this one :0)

Apple really aught to include their own version of discreet GPU's again. It helped boost what would of been abismal graphics in the 2008-2017 iMac's. They also did it in the 2007 MBP's and the graphics are buttery smooth with a forced version of BigSur on it.

@tonyburzio4107

11 ай бұрын

Coming in December.

Post Production sound uses Pro Tools exclusively, and uses HDX PCIe cards exclusively. While getting a Mac Studio and Thunderbolt PCIe chassis could do the trick, this would only hold a maximum of 3 of these HDX cards, while this machine can hold more of them which is necessary for a big Dolby Atmos sound project. It's not just musicians who use Pro Tools.

@beezanteeum

11 ай бұрын

I think Logic Pro and Pyramix is also catching up in post production scene

If I want mopping, T20 Omni, Narwal Freo or Q Revo? Or wait for Roborock to release rotating mops in an S line?

@snazzy

11 ай бұрын

Purely mopping? As in you don’t care about vacuuming at all? Narwal Freo.

@gmanyyavailable

11 ай бұрын

@@snazzy Yep, have a vacuum already which does fine. Thank you!

Shame about the Mac Pro offering and I do like my M1 but I also feel a lot better about the faster Intel system I built for video editing a year ago at a quarter of the price.

A Mac Pro tower that had less PCIe slots and more internal thunderbolt connections and could function as a rolling server rack actually sounds more useful for the people that want this... Imagine the entire side of the Mac Pro just being open rack space and a PSU that could power all the rack gear internally over thunderbolt 4.

I keep hearing people talking about architects using Macs, but 99% of the industry in North America uses Revit all day, which is Windows only.

I mean it’s a stupid computer to buy but I still want one! I should just build a pc in that dune case.

I mostly agree, but with one big difference, I think Apple really cares about those live production houses and musicians, and the biggest of the big still need internal PCIe. And the thing is, the platform that those really big production houses use is the platform that gets the best software support and the platform that all the aspiring technicians leap on.

@harmvzon

11 ай бұрын

Apple cares about money. And I can’t imagine the big production houses like you mention generate enough revenue. Also looking at the whole entertainment industry in Europe, a lot of people switched from Mac.

The Mac Pro lineup should have continued with x86-based Pro CPUs like Threadripper and Xeon, while also maintaining support for both x86 and ARM-based operating systems. The amount of royalty Apple charges for its products can easily fund this desired setup.

Here's the issue (a cost issue) Apple's design allows for use of chiplets, but it does not use them at all. Yes, the SoC is divided into parts with an interconnect between them, like AMD's Infinity Fabric, but the entire product is a monolythic die, meaning if any of the chiplets is defective it will affect the entire product.

@UNVIRUSLETALE

11 ай бұрын

It has the disadvantages of both monolythic and chiplets

@P_F_D

11 ай бұрын

if any of the chiplets is defective, wouldn’t they discard it before building the entire package?

@jessefisher1809

11 ай бұрын

I don't understand the advantage then..?

@shapelessed

11 ай бұрын

@@P_F_D Chiplets that (As I have ALREADY explained) are a part of a single chip...?

Intel Macs are still the best, at least for me. My 2020 iMac is still very powerful with the Radeon 5700 pro XT.

Nice & Thanks :) Can you help us more with Thunderbolt 3/4 based I/O capture cards for Live streaming ?

I’m hoping for add-on cards. Apple Silicon may not be able to utilize GPU’s well because it’s breaking up the compute task and ignoring optimizations, but it can probably utilize parallel/ distributed computing just fine, and if optimized for that would do well. Were Apple to make basically “iPhones on PCI cards” that’d be right within their core competencies, enable faster distributed computing than networking would, and good software integration would be easy. They wouldn’t be reliant on 3rd parties making GPU parts that aren’t integrated as well and more prone to problems (Apple does like vertical integration, and keeping third parties out of their widgets whenever possible), plus they could make money off of it, plus it’d probably work really, really well. Plus there’s already been rumors of “compute modules” running iOS. If you were building a render farm or super computer, a single desktop computer that could house essentially up to 7 computers worth of processing in it would be really appealing. I don’t know that this is what they’ll do but if the giant chips idea doesn’t work out it makes more sense than canceling it, and they’ve already crossed the bridge by building an AS Mac Pro, and they have to know it’s not that great as-is. If it happens it’s conceivable they could do something similar to EGPU’s as well, utilizing the same technology for their other machines and with OS level software integration so it’s not just 1 app benefitting from the render farm.

would have been great to add support for current nvidia gpu's

you forgot one audience for this. programmers that need to write drivers for there PCI-E cards to work under ARM. the fact is that Windows under ARM is coming and getting ahead of the game and writing the drivers on a ARM mac first you can crush a lot of bugs and issues to get up to speed quickly on a windows ARM machine.

I'm 71, my first Mac was a Plus. I dumped Apple in 2001 altogether for many reasons and never returned. However, I can tell you in all those years, whenever any hardware or software gets the suffix "Pro", you can count on it being fried.

The Mac Pro success depends on support from 3rd parties for unique cases that need the PCIe slots and if there's a market there. In other words Apple released this product for third party companies to create a need for them.

If it was only slightly more expensive to the studio ultra’s… basically the expandability is a huge tax.

cool shirt, one of the nicer TC Tuggers designs.

here we go again. the m1 was the jade c chop. the pro was the jade c, the max was the jade 2 c (because two graphic units) and the ultra the jade 4c (4 graphic units. there never was a variant with 4 complete m1 maxes bolted together, the way the chip layout is designed doesn't even allow it to connect like this from what people know about the design.

(ramble alert) Having been an iMac user for all the intel generation, prior to that I did the Apple II generation through friends, Apple Silicon which I had originally thought would usher in a whole new generation of powerful Apple computers as instead to me come across as "do not look behind the curtain" event. I bought into all that hype they pushed about how well it outperformed even PC hardware only to realize it really in the end only out performed Apple computers using PC similar hardware. Any system with a dedicated GPU was just going blow right by. So then I figured, it will have the publishing niche down to itself like the old Power days... but alas other channels and yours have shown it doesn't triumph there either. Look, I admit it, I like to play games on my Mac, I really only want one computer in my life and it needs to pull double if not triple duty. intel Mac meant I could boot windows on the off chance I need it and keep to that one computer does it all. Now all iMac gives me going forward is great packaging, packaging I cannot easily if at all replicate with a PC. However I am looking into solutions where I can have three to five meter cables to keep the case away from my display. Great packaging and compatibility kept me in Mac far longer than I would have expected however sustainability and power when I break it down only come from moving to a PC for one primary reason, I can selectively upgrade my PC as my needs change but for a new Mac I actually have to buy a complete new Mac. Oh well, I was hoping that Apple would come up with some sort of backplane monsters where AS chips on cards slotted in and all linked up on some special bus to become super computers in a box... but the design of AS really handcuffs Apple far more than they want to admit to.

@ghost-user559

11 ай бұрын

Depends what software you run. Really Apple is still the best game in town for certain software. And honestly having a completely silent and ice cold desktop running fairly advanced ai image generation, emulating almost any retro to last gen console, and having fairly fast and efficient chips, does still make for a compelling use case. The neural engines are underrepresented in the discussion, and there are already apps that specifically leverage them to remove the burden from the Gpu entirely, and the fact that the Ram is shared by the Vram, means that any Apple silicon device has a vram nearly equivalent to the memory spec you buy, which still beats out consumer gpus at least in that area. A 30 GB vram card is ridiculous, but an Apple silicon device with 32 GB Ram is an entire computer at a much more reasonable cost.

The Mac studio is effectively impossible to clean the dust out of as the fan and heatsink are inaccessible. you better have the room HEPA filtered if you want it to last more than a year or two without running into thermal problems.

Gotta love the nod to Apple neglecting the Pro market for the better part of a decade (from 2012 to 2019). I definitely felt that neglect, when I wanted to upgrade my 2009 Mac Pro, and waited until 2017 to build my own PC workstation for much less than half the price of a 2013 8-core Mac Pro. The M1 Max Mac Studio finally felt like Apple was listening to it's pro user base who didn't need Xeon processors and ECC memory, much less wanted to spend $6,000 on a fairly pedestrian 8-core CPU based workstation. The M1 Ultra was a definitely solid step up for those who need more oomph. The pro users who need over 200GB of ram will have to wait. ...have to think it'll come, as Apple rethinks the Mac Pro.

imagine they would bring back the xserve with this sleek 1u chassis. unfortunately they completely abandoned their server products.

also there's thunderbolt 5 in the pipeline which is expected to deliver over 3x the bandwidth of already blazingly fast thunderbolt 4

From the very start, when Apple anounced to move Mac to ARM, I felt sorry for Mac Pro users. Cause no way any GPU manufacturer is going to invest in ARM drivers for the few MacOS uses who can afford a Mac Pro, assuming apple would allow this in the first place. And without GPU support the Pro platform is dead imho. I really don't understand why they even bothered to release this. Maybe things will change in the future, but it feels like Apple is going full in their own processors and GPU's. And don't get me wrong, they do really well in performance and power consumption, but it just won't cut it for real power users. And yes Apple showed it can change, though I don't think they will keep i368 MacOS support alive for power users. That doesn't make any sense.

The fact that this is less upgradable than the Trash Can Mac Pro is kinda sad, even if it was predictable :(

@snazzy

11 ай бұрын

At least here-unlike with the 2013 Mac Pro-Apple didn't sell it on the promise that it would get future upgrades lol

@Evie0133

11 ай бұрын

@@snazzy true true haha, the dual GPU setup on that thing was such a mess lol

this guys trying to start a pay it forward chain!

The Mac Pro is for that rare person who needs a computer and a cheese grater in a single device.

The most frustrating bit is that Apple knows what consumers want. Yet, they REFUSE to give it to us. As such, I'm going to continue building custom PCs and just running Arch on them. I'd love to use a Mac. But for my workload, the new M1 / M2 config makes no sense because I can't plug in a GPU. It's frustrating and unfortunately, the only time Apple will listen is when people stop buying their stuff.

They need to make sure you can use a dGPU if you need. Ridiculous to include that much PCIe expandability w/out dGPU support

Love the shirt!