Alright. I'm done beating this horse. What fresh/new content do y'all want to see?! Can be anything from tuning methods to fletching tips.

@luckytrapper7656

3 жыл бұрын

How about the average bow reviews or testing. (Average bow= Diamond bows, Black Out, maybe even Cabelas brand) The average persons bow. Not everyone can purchase a $1200 bow like Hoyt and Mathews.

@renatugaming5730

3 жыл бұрын

I would be a millionaire Nate if I got a penny every time I said I got fletching glue on myself😅😂..so maybe a video on fletching tips?!

@danielavant6983

3 жыл бұрын

I like Lucky Trapper's idea. Budget bow or "flagship" budget bow reviews would be interesting. Also, a fletching video. Just bought a Bitz and a solid video would ve awesome!

@renatugaming5730

3 жыл бұрын

@@danielavant6983 kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zairpdezlcm_kdI.html works, it's feathers but to switch to vanes you switch from tape to glue.

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

@@danielavant6983 kzread.info/dash/bejne/hqqfpchmqrnNmMY.html

“A vegan, a crossfitter, and a heavy arrow guy walked into a bar...”

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

The fourth guy, with common sense, ducked.

@Eaatlife

3 жыл бұрын

You forgot a saddle Hunter lol

@Eaatlife

3 жыл бұрын

Oh yea and one stick climbers lol

@kevinbillow4185

2 жыл бұрын

A guy in my apprenticeship class recently built some 762 grain arrows....for whitetails. Wanna know how I know? Lol I asked him "you got ground penetrating radar to find your arrow after it enters the Earth's crust?"

@livingadreamlife1428

2 жыл бұрын

Which one was wearing Sitka?

Excited to finish this tomorrow.

@williamworkman1468

2 жыл бұрын

I like this. Very informative

I was an English major, and love context, so thanks for that. In fairness, there is also serious modern testing from Trad Lab and Iron Will (and others), much of which corroborates Ashby's reports. I encourage you interview them both, ideally at the same time, and discuss Ashby and their contemporary findings. Also, there are a lot of trad shooters these days, shooting cedar, aluminum and carbon, so while compounds are super high tech now, plenty of us, me included, are shooting trad, and want an optimal arrow/broadhead set up in case an arrow has to get through heavy bone, even if it is "just" a white tail.

No Epson Salt here. I think some folks watched to see if you would go all in on RF and the Ashby Foundation like an Eminem diss track, wanting that drama, but you didn't. Just brought up the words in the findings and spoke upon it in a more modern sense. Troy has continuously brought up the first three points of Structural Integrity and Perfect Arrow 🏹 Flight as well as having those non twizzler broadheads aka fixed blade and cut on contact heads to beyond shaving sharp. He has mentioned that he would rather someone use a 480 total weight arrow with the right sharp broadhead that flies perfect with lesser FOC than some monster arrow that flies like garbage and can't tune properly. Even though he enjoys his Adult arrows for what he does, which is experiment on wild boar 🐗. People take a headline and run with it without hearing or reading all the words. Doesn't matter what field it's in; sports, politics, hunting gear, etc... I listened to both of your previous videos on the subject including the Brandon Mcdonald one and enjoyed them both and learned more. Thanks for sharing even more in depth thoughts and history on the FOCing subject.

It’s nice to have different perspectives this is something nobody was talking about years back 650 grains is believed to be the bone breaking threshold and yes maybe it doesn’t matter too much but when you hit bone on a whitetail like the humerus and cleave it in half with 640 it makes so much sense to just go up in arrow weight cause I hardly hit the animal where I plan to hit it cause they are magical when it comes to not wanting to be harvested. Heavy arrows is a failsafe ethical method to harvesting game not losing game beautiful history lesson thank you keep it up

Thanks for sharing the history of the Ashby Report, the context really shed light on what they were trying to accomplish. For me it boils down to solid bow tuning to achieve perfect arrow flight and a solid fixed blade broadhead.

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

Structural integrity and perfect arrow flight will solve 90% or more of folks' problems. Simple as that.

@davidholliday3286

2 жыл бұрын

@@averagejackarchery . Depends on what your hunting. Elk and Moose will test your setup. Dangerous game is another seminar all together. Me I want the most lethal killing stick period, especially for critters that will look for what hurt them after impact...Cheers.

@tsz374

2 жыл бұрын

Ashby required the same fine tuned gear

I appreciate this so much. Thank you for your time and research on this. I've been really torn and unsure of what to believe and where to go with my arrow setup. Only second year of archery and I'm happy to have this explained so well! Thank you again!

Great video! Watched every minute of it. Definitely got a little wierd when you started to singing hahaha! There was a lot of great information here. Really appreciate it

Excellent video. Explained in great detail. That was an easy listen for 48 min. Great job!!!

You put some time into your research and I appreciate that! Thank you! You really put some things in perspective and helped me some because I shoot both recurve and longbow with wood arrows I build and as you said it is hard to get heavy FOC with that setup. I think the key is balance. Heavy arrow with the best trajectory! Thanks again for sharing you did a great job!

Probably the best take I’ve heard on this topic. Balanced. Knowledgeable. Context always matters. Thanks

Love this video, really a lot to digest and take in but thanks fir doing it anyway. LEARNING IS FUN 😁

I use modern compounds and trad bows - love 'em both. Been bowhunting for well over 50 years, both in dense NE hardwoods and out west. I've hit a few branches that got in the way over the years, but only a few. The biggest reason for a bad shot was not knowing the distance or having the animal move upon the shot. This is when I was more likely to hit heavy bone or hitting the bone at angles that tend to deflect the arrow. This has happened to me many times in the past, and usually ended with bad results, but not so much in the last 15 years since I've been following Ashby's recommendations. Range finders have helped me a lot (especially out west) and having arrows that don't tend to deflect and can punch through thick bone has really been an eye-opener for me. Tradjectory inside of 20 yards (90% of my shots) isn't even a thing. I don't even have to think about it - following Ashby's recommendations has been a huge benefit for me. It's never been about what can work on a good shot. It's always been what will help most when things don't quite go the way I hoped - which seems to be more often than I'd expect.

Man I love your videos. I like your realistic logic. Thanks for helping clear some of the smoke. I feel that now I can appreciate the ashby information to a better degree with a more clear perspective on the goal of it. Thanks.

Very well spoken. I still like the idea of a plan B arrow that can kill through a whitetail shoulder when a deer spins unexpectedly (maybe you do too, you didn't say you don't), but I like the added context here and the straightforward, polite reasoning behind your recommendations.

I loved this whole video!! Great job!!

I really enjoyed the blast from the past so much I subscribed to your channel, I started bow hunting in 1978 when we had no electronic rangefinders and you bought your camouflaged clothing at the Army surplus store. Thanks.

@timbow50

2 жыл бұрын

Began in 63' with a Bear recurve, then longbows forever. Finally in 93?94? Me and my son got PSE wheel bows. Thunderflight? It seems. They only had aluminum shafts then or solid fiberglass. Man oh man, how the bow has changed is beyond imagination from those early wheel days.

If Dr.Ashby wanted conclusive proof that his report/finding are correct, he would submit his report to a physics publication for peer review, this is exactly what you see in this video. While some of work is concrete other parts are suspect, and could be proven/disproven by objective testing. Great video.

Great video! I am a Montana elk hunter and am gonna switch to a heavier arrow/broadhead, higher foc, shooting with my Mathews Creed. I had my poundage set to high for myself thinking I needed a high poundage with 100 grain broadheads and hurt my shoulder pulling back in an awkward, crouched position on an elk. I started turning down my poundage but always worried in the back of my mind about my arrow. After listening to Ashby and now you, I'm convinced that a higher foc and weight is better for me and what I'm hunting. Thanks for your info!

@wopadobop

Жыл бұрын

As long as it flies straight. More power to you,.

Awesome video, I think a lot of people talk about and point to the reports but no one ever dives into them. I will say that the quote about the heaviest arrow with a good trajectory is spot on. I think finding a good medium is ideal, I plan on doing that with my setup this year. I’ll post my videos of my setup process again this year!

Thanks for the information, it is good to hear completing views. I learn something every time.

I’m glad you bring up the equipment differences between the time the report came out and now ! It’s all about arrow flight and structural integrity for me ! 27.5 draw length and my set up for elk is 495 total weight it’s got close to 16% FOC , I tried going heavier and it’s just not beneficial to my accuracy and penetration because it’s harder to get a heavier arrow to fly straight! Tuning is very difficult for me with a heavier set up ! Great video thanks

@JedlyMT

3 жыл бұрын

What poundage you pulling?

I completely understand the argument is that with modern materiel we can accomplish many of the results in the Ashby Reports with much lower FOC/Total Arrow Weight. I think many of us who really enjoy the physics portion of the reports and bow hunting in general (at the very least for myself) the point is that if I’m following “Ashby Report Principles” AND using modern materiel, then I’m putting the most I can to my advantage. Since the main goal is “pass through” in bow hunting, then extra penetration is likely not a problem. That said, if you can’t or don’t want to work to the extremes, that’s perfectly fine and you’ll do great, no worries. At the same time, it’s hard to argue with the facts, like you said. Considering my personality and life of training I live by the code of, “Go BIG, or Go HOME!” Especially since “Murphy’s Law” is always ready to stop by. Lol Great talk, thanks for the thoughts!

@bmills231

3 жыл бұрын

I understand what you're saying, and can only speak on my personal testing and experience, but there is definitely a point where you dull down a modern compound so much that you lose efficiency across the board. There is a tipping point where there is no longer enough speed or energy created to provide the optimal amount of momentum. Through all of my testing the absolute best results I've had for KE and momentum is between 270-280fps and building the heaviest setup I can within that speed. I'm just over 29" draw so this may not be the same for someone with a shorter draw length. I've seen these numbers play out though for just about everything we've tested over 28" draw length.

@ngnmech

3 жыл бұрын

For some people even using new materials the weight and FOC are not that much lower than in the 90"s My arrows that I used in the 90"s was 505 grain/9% FOC XX75 2216. My current arrow is a Black Eagle outlaw at 517 grains and 17% FOC. So in 30 years My setup weight hasn't really changed. And there are a lot of hunters shooting similar 500 grain give or take arrows.

@pokerman9108

2 жыл бұрын

@@ngnmech I grew up in Idaho and have bow hunted elk every year for as long as I can remember. (over 25 years) I was shooting PSE with an overdraw in the 90's... with xx75 arrows. I now shoot a Mathews extreme with xx75 arrows for elk. Single fixed blade single bevel. weight around 620 grains. I did the lighter arrows and other broad heads over the years, anytime I hit bone it was not pretty. Now my arrow smashed through. Proof is in the pudding as they say. I also shoot out to 50 yards.

@pokerman9108

2 жыл бұрын

@@bmills231 long bows don't come close to those FPS, yet they're very effective with heavy arrows. so I'm not sure your argument of the "tipping point" is relevant with a compound. Just about every compound can shoot well over a long bow, so that tipping point seems not so relevant.

I agree with what you are saying. I have played with several arrows this year. I have read the Ashby report and I am still playing but have came up with the victory rip xv 300 spine 28” with the ethics insert outsert at 150 grains with a 125 grain tip. It’s 500 grains 23% foc. I noticed it moves my target were the heavier arrow with a standard insert and 125 tip that weighs 508 grains just wiggles the target. It is apparent when shooting both arrows the higher foc arrow hits the target much harder and typically sinks in the target about 1.5” deeper consistently.

@silentunknown2010

3 жыл бұрын

How is that shaft holding up? That super light gpi is scary. Are they durable, how’s its structural integrity? Im choosing between the Xv 250 and tko 250.

@billylee2312

3 жыл бұрын

@@silentunknown2010 So far they have been great. I have only shot targets and a few 2x4’s for checking out some single bevel broadheads and the structural integrity. The ethics inserts and perfect arrow flight really seem to be the key to the integrity. file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/c8/08/17C3BA04-55BF-45C1-9FEA-6C3DEB627F9B/IMG_2775.MOV

@ajshovel1

3 жыл бұрын

The bottom line is you're discovering what everyone who honestly experiments with this arrow build finds out. Upping your FOC is a real game changer. I'll never go back.

great review --- You got me back on the ground again. Was second guessing my arrow setup !

Randy Ulmer always said he did not worry about FOC... his focus was on perfect arrow flight. Great video and great info...context is everything.

@bmills231

3 жыл бұрын

Most top level archers don't worry about it. That's because it's fairly easy to get 12-15% foc which is plenty. More guys probably focus more time on the weight in the front of their arrow than they do shooting tight groups consistently.

@ajshovel1

3 жыл бұрын

That may be true but he also says he likes around a 500 gr. arrow. Can't get that without some weight up front.

Thank you sir .. my arrows have been 400-450 grains for over 30 years .. never had a penetration issue .. and yes we have some gnarly hogs in the swamps of Mississippi. I’m happy with 8-9% FOC too.. 😎

Great video, I appreciate the content and your assessment. It was getting confusing for a new archer.

Solid video with great content. I built a 650 grain arrow last year. It gets the job done with out question. This year I toned it down for the flatter arrow flight. Goal is a 475 to 500 grain.

My first bow was a Browning compound with a wood riser, beautiful bow, slow as molasses but beautiful.

@longshotdiedtired1582

2 жыл бұрын

But did you get pass throughs 🤣

@driftlesshunter9200

Жыл бұрын

My brother's first compound bow was a Browning, too. His wooden riser split in half pulling it back after a few years of use. He was lucky that he wasn't injured badly. They were nice looking bows, however!

Very informative, I’ve never paid much attention to FOC as I only began shooting 6 months ago, and only recently began really planning out my arrow builds. You’ve given me a lot of info to work with! Just found your channel and have found your content very helpful. Keep up the good work sir

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Craig! Always reach out on the many platforms if you have questions!

@craigjacobs6720

3 жыл бұрын

@@averagejackarchery I definitely will! Thanks for making this info available to noobs such as myself.

@montuckyman4982

2 жыл бұрын

About 90 percent of the true bow hunting killers have zero idea what the FOC is on their arrows and don't care.

Thank you, I really appreciate your opinions on this very complicated issue

Great info. And you present so very well.

Great video! I shot 595g arrows last year; building 465g (12-16% FOC) for this season. 27.5dl/55#dw - I am looking for a faster, flatter flying arrow. Favorite part of the video? Your rendition of the "Flintstones" theme song! Thanks for the well thought out, great content.

This makes more sense now!!! Thank you for the brake down!

Our club secretary has one of those 80's compound bows in his collection.. Including a pin sight. Ive had a shot with it. Its heavy awful and to shoot. But he shoots really good scores with it, he gets it out more to prove his point that its not the bow its the archer that makes the difference.

Watched the whole thing and totally agree. 30 “ draw 70# with proper arrow flight is gonna do it for me every time.

I can’t argue with the fact that the report says to shoot the heaviest arrow you can, as long as you are happy with the trajectory. It’s going to be different for everyone. For me, I shoot 70#+ on a 6” brace night bow with a 30” draw. My arrow weighs 696. So you need 696? No, but in order to get the high structural integrity I was looking for I needed up going with a 200 grain single bevel with ethics insert and sleeve. In order to get perfect arrow flight with ~300 grains up front, I needed a 200 spine arrow. Inherently, it weighs 11.6 GPI. I kept weight down on the back by using feathers and stock nocks, which helped me achieve higher foc. I still shoot an average of 256fps. I’m happy with that trajectory from 35yrds and in my hunting situations. That’s what works for me, I’m not going to say someone shooting 500 grains is dumb if that’s what works for them. I’m guilty of using “flappers” had some success and Failures, but now I will always advocate for fixed blade cut in contact. The 650 grain threshold is ranked last for a reason. It’s not nearly as important to penetration as all the other factors but it don’t hurt.

Great video sir! Keep the content coming!

This was really good. Thank you.

You need more subs, this channel is great

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you think so!

Just keep doing what you’re doing lol. You have a great channel.

Love what you have to say here and I also love hearing the Ranch Fairy go into it with the Ashby stuff. I was digging pretty well into it last summer and had to pump the brakes when my 600+ grain arrow's trajectory was absolutely garbage. Backed it down sub-550 and was much happier. Generally speaking, moderation and acceptable arrow performance is what we need, I think.

@Jjohgdykv6783

Жыл бұрын

100% both Ashby and Ranch fairy and rocket man say that arrow flight is more important than weight and common sense tells you that if your trying to build an arrow that will kill anything even if slightly misplaced you want heavy but as soon as you lose good arrow flight back off on weight and most people I’ve talked to and seen on KZread are between 500-600 grain arrows and you will blow through all North America animals keep in mind you won’t be shooting 70+ yards

@pinkyellowblue007

Жыл бұрын

What type of bow and poundage were you using with the 600+ grains?

I personally would like to see you debunk the myth that broadheads continue to spin after they penetrate. I believe they stop any rotation. Further I don't believe that spin helps with penetration.

I have watched videos that discuss FOC and heavy arrows. The comments are made about suffering trajectory with heavy arrows. The only actual demo that I have seen was done by Brandon McDonald where he videoed two different weight arrows in the dark with lighted nocks. Has anyone developed a formula that will predict the difference in trajectory vs velocity for a given weight arrow??

This is not a discussion about the Ashby report..... But a problem the industry has with the Cult of fairies, who act like they found something new.....

So here’s a question for you. I’ve used Slick Trick Magnums for years, love them but never hit a shoulder. Should I switch the Vipertricks or Magnus stingers just in case? I know I’m splitting hairs. Setup is Mathews VXR 70lbs 29” draw. Thanks, and great video

@averagejackarchery

2 жыл бұрын

Slick Trick makes excellent heads. Don't sweat a whitetail shoulder with one. You could go with a Magnus if you want a lifetime warranty! But I wouldn't hesitate to keep using the Tricks.

I want to know what velocity range a 650 grain arrows has to have to get consistent bone destruction as described in the study

@thetowndrunk988

2 жыл бұрын

That’s the key question. I mean everyone is shouting 650+, but no one is discussing at what velocity. I’d imagine if you’re shooting it out of a bow no faster than you can throw the arrow, it’s not gonna penetrate very well….

Really great content. People should listen to this before chiming in on the discussion.

Good video! I am a dog tracker, pass through is the most important factor in recovery. I shoot a 515gr arrow 70 pounds 29.5 draw and I can blow through almost anything. I like Ashby work and was looking at it before it was "cool". Whitetail don't require a 900gr with 35 percent FOC, but 400gr balanced arrows don't work. I've tracked the deer to prove it.

I noticed that tip on my black hornets and it went away when I went to sharpen them. Did I hurt the effectiveness of it?

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

Nope! There's so much material there I haven't found (in my own resharpening) that it's an issue to resharpen the whole blade.

OUTSTANDING! Great information

If you’ve never tried setting up for a 300 grain broadhead and shot through the shoulders of a whitetail I recommend it. It works well if you can get close to your target 🎯 then there’s no worries about arrow drop.

Thank you for the comment about speed of sound vs. arrow speed. Been saying this for years. I would also add that a perfectly tuned arrow requires less vane. This is an example of how all the factors work together. This is also a way to add foc. Addition by Subtraction.

Answer this for me. My bow has been tuned by my local shop so when I am Paper tuning with my arrow at 27.25” long 70lbs, I am not a bow tech but bare shaft the only thing I can get Bullet holes with is 100gr insert and 200gr field tip, total weight 553gr. As I drop the weight up front I start getting tears instantly. I would love to go lighter but I just can’t get it to work. Any thoughts?

@whitetailtherapy7908

3 жыл бұрын

I think the 3 biggest things I would check are cam lean, cam timing and your grip. Alot goes into it. And how big of tears are you getting ? Like if your getting a 2 inch tear then something is wrong but if your only getting 1/2 or 1 inch tear that could just be your grip. Im 29 inch draw with a 28 1/4 at 73 lbs with a 250 spine. 100 grain insert and I can shoot bullet holes with 100,125,150 and 200 grain field points but sometimes I will get a weird tear on all of them and that's just my grip not being perfect

@TheDonsRiche

3 жыл бұрын

It's all about the spine of your arrow. If you drop the weight up front there will be a threshold where the spine will no longer work. Up the spine as you decrease the weight and vice versa.

Thank you for this video!

I’m think trajectory is so important so I’m just starting to messing with this I want heavy but as flat as passable. You have a valid points thanks

I played around with some extreme FOC arrow builds when the Ranch Fairy craze hit. Went up to 625gn but backed down to 530gn for deer. Next year I'll probably dial it back a little further and go to 480gn or so. BUT, i will give RF credit for opening my eyes on arrow flight issues. I had no idea just how much my form and technique was impacting my arrow flight. My bow tuning, and shooting technique have improved dramatically over the last year. But that doesn't mean I've drank the koolaid either. There's still a lot of RF stuff i don't agree with.

@mustang268

3 жыл бұрын

For deer I find 420 to 470 to be a good weight for deer had plenty of success with a 450 grain arrow

@bmills231

3 жыл бұрын

I've run as heavy as 530gr setups and without question my bow is most efficient between 480-505gr and speeds between 270-280fps. Current setup is 587.5gr arrow at 281fps. Calculates over 85 ft-lbs of KE and has high momentum calculations. Sure I could go heavier and have more momentum and still well above lethal KE, but this setup provides by far the most efficient output across the board. And my arrow flight is great. Enough speed where judging yardage is less of a concern should I find myself in that situation hunting, but not so fast that broadhead tuning is a nightmare. I can shoot bareshafts to 30 yards.

@enddockboyoutdoors748

2 жыл бұрын

This post right here hit the nail on the head.

It's a nice morning when you wake up to an AJA conversation/podcast :)

What advantage does a light and fast set up have over a heavy set up? Distance? What disadvantage is there in having a heavy arrow set up?

@gsnicholas8522

3 жыл бұрын

A slightly better trajectory. Otherwise a light fast arrow has no benefit over a heavy arrow.

@brokenarrow6491

2 жыл бұрын

Lighter arrows shoots flatter which makes judging distance not as important out to 30 yards. Also the animal has a little less time to react to the shot. A heavier arrow is slower but can make your bow more quiet to shoot and it helps with penetration especially if your shooting a big mechanical broadhead. Either work fine for whitetails just make sure your bow is tuned so the arrow is coming out straight and match the broadhead to your setup.

As expected... enjoyed it a lot... I'm same curious personality of 15min knock-knock joke to find roots of everything I'm not mind heavy, just not willing to sacrifice trajectory Awesome job of COMMON SENSE in breaking down subject P.S. Good singing too. I'll buy you album. Let me know when released.

Just to throw this out here. Ur basically saying his data is based on 40 year old technology. So... if you improve the launcher a mechanical device, how does that just not improve his data tremendously? Everyones worried about trajectory. Maybe just become a better hunter and get closer. Personal experiences. 430 grain setup with rage. Bounced off a wisconsin bear shoulder. My wife. 28" 45# high quartering away. Deflected off whitetail shoulder. No penetration on either. Ill just get closer and tank my tank of an arrow (now 692gr) and just take closer shots. By the way. My arrow at 20 yards between my 430 gr and 692gr arrows was 2.5 inches with the same pin. So I dont get the trajectory thing. Also one final point. Speed loss at 60 yards for all you amazing archers is 3x worse with lighter arrows than heavier arrows (momentum) . There's a point to be made about arrows flying and arrows killing. Too many people worried about getting the arrow to the target and not through the animals. Good luck to all this hunting season. My boss always says, "everyone has choices" glad you are out there educating people. Love your videos

@brokenarrow6491

2 жыл бұрын

A broadhead that opens 2" prior to entry is not a good penetrating broadhead. Especially if you don't have the energy in your setup. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people shooting 50 to 60 pounds with a lighter arrow and they wonder why they get no penetration with a big mechanical broadhead. Go with a smaller broadhead and for the 45 pounds your wife shoots try fixed heads and maybe a 2 blade fixed. I've been shooting since 1972. I've shot slow bows, fast bows, heavy arrows and light arrows. The best set up I've ever had for whitetails is what I'm shooting right now which is a 345 Ibo rated bow at 70 lbs with a 373 grain arrow. I use a mechanical broadhead that cuts 1 inch going in and 1.75 inches plus coming out. I shoot one pin to 40 yards and I shoot through everything when it comes to whitetails even on hard quartering shots. The one time I didn't get a total pass through was a few years ago when I shot a buck at about 27 yards. I hit his front shoulder and the arrow pinned his heart and broke both front shoulders. Other than that the only thing a heavier arrow would do for me is stick in the ground a little deeper after it passes through the deer. I just shot a buck from a ground blind last week and my arrow was 30 yards past the deer so penetration isn't an issue for my set-up. I'm fortunate and have a place where I get to shoot a lot of deer and I've learned what works for me. If I were going moose hunting I would change my arrow weight and use a fixed head to match the game I was shooting. Having the arrow coming out of the bow as straight as possible is extremely important for penetration. Also match the broadhead size and type to your setup. If you have more confidence in using a 600 grain arrow then that's what you should use. I wanted to give another perspective of what works well. Everyone has to find what works best for them. All the best

@rorynelson7548

Жыл бұрын

That's all fine and dandy until you have to make a 60 yard shot on a mule deer

@justafan5179

Жыл бұрын

@Rory Nelson watch Ranch Fairy's 3 part video series from about 1 year ago, on 60 yard arrow performance... then comment. Lot's of solutions for infinite possibilities. If it works, it works.

@Lovenlife139

9 ай бұрын

@@rorynelson7548🙄

As you have mentioned, with my 32" draw, I am shooting rebar down range. I am over 500 grains and that is with just the basic setup without lighted nocks. At 6'7", my knuckle dragging arms put limits on the bows that are available to me as a teacher, not able to lay $$$ on the high end models. So too, are my options limited with respect to arrows. I buy uncut shafts and I do not trim any off. I start at, let's say HEAVY....or I can go with INSANE HEAVY, but then when I release the arrow, the deer can enjoy his morning cup of coffee and a warm breakfast sandwich and still have time to jump out of the way.

@russelllangworthy8855

3 жыл бұрын

Is your draw length actually 32" or is that just the longest draw length bow you could find? I'm 6'1" and have a 31" draw length, so I find it interesting that you're 6'7" and only draw 32".

@mdsaddlehunter3796

3 жыл бұрын

It is an actual measured 32" draw. I could probably go 1/2 inch shorter, but not longer. At 32" my extended arm has a little bend, so it is not locked out.

Very enjoyable, I thank you for going through the whole 12 points as it seems people get hung up on only one or two! Structural integrity (including the broad head) and perfect arrow flight are 1 and 2 for a reason and most of us can stop there, the rest are good knowledge to be applied as applicable and not taken out of context. Don’t get me wrong, I like a heavy arrow, but I’m a trad guy and 10gpi just seems to tune well and be quiet. Great video, well executed.

Very interesting video. I am stressing about my arrow weight right now. I have been a finger shooter my entire adult bowhunting life, I am 53. I have used heavy aluminum arrows and mostly Muzzy 130 grain broadheads, 30in. draw pulling 65#. An elbow injury has caused me to go to a release aid and drop to 50# draw weight. I went to a carbon shaft that is 330 grains fletched with insert. I am using a 125 grain broadhead. (455 total arrow weight.) I want to go heavier but I am hitting really well with this set up and the arrows fly really good. I have watched a lot of the RF videos and I get what he is saying but I think I am stressing over nothing for hunting deer in Sweet Home Alabama! Thanks for the video, really enjoy your content.

@montuckyman4982

2 жыл бұрын

If your hitting the spot and have perfect arrow flight, you would have zero issues killing ANY critter in North America. Including grizzly, polar bears or moose. Saw a dude just killed a polar bear with a roughly 450 grain arrow and g5 3 blade montec and a mid 50# RECURVE!

In pa I believe you still can't use a crazy long head I believe there is still laws not allowing it to far down past the arrow and not allowed to stick out past the arrow alot

I was there in the 80's shooting bows. I can't believe that the axle to axle used to be 40 inches and we all had aluminum arrows with 5 inch veins.

@donaldvonlintig8445

10 ай бұрын

Still have a 40" Bow, anything less, too much finger pinch ! Also "length equals stability" and never liked vanes, Feathers are much more forgiving.

I’m hunt out west and really suck at it😂. Only have a couple years doing it. Second year I blew right through a big oryx at 63yrd annihilator 100gr head, victory vap micro diameter with 75gr outsert total weight was 448 gr. I’m still experimenting with arrow weight and am happy with 420- 450 gr. I play around with four different bows and try to keep them all in tune with the same arrow set up, any suggestions?

My brother from another mother... Halleluiah!! Thank you so much for this video. Right off the bat in my bowhunting venture, I ran into the CrappyStix/Jeremy Johnson/Heavy Arrow/High FOC train... It pretty much ran me over and caused my archery skills to run off the tracks for a while. When I finally read the Ashby report and the history of it (from an engineering mindset - I am an engineer) it made much more sense - and like you I came to the same conclusion. Fortunately, I had chucked the CrappyStix 650+ gr arrows and was using some "twizzle sticks" as RF calls them. It got my archery back on track (I learned to actually shoot a bow with accuracy). As I became more confident in shooting my bow, I was able to start exploring the heavier (notice not heavy) and higher (notice I didn't say high) FOC arrows. And define what worked best for my shooting. Like you I also found many of the historical loopholes in Ashby as well as anachronisms. This past season (I have only been bow hunting 3 years) I took my first anything (a whitetail deer) and found my twizzle sticks arrows blasted through these deer like hot butter. On my second deer with barely a 425 gr arrow (and a 340 spine), I watched the arrow at 40 yards blast through the deer and continue on like a bat out of hell. Yes I am now building a heavier and higher FOC arrow but it is because I plan on killing things that need it. Thank you man! I really appreciate your archery/bow hunting sobriety.

This is awesome I’m happy someone smarter than me looked into this. I’ve been wanting to build a heavy arrow just from watching the fairy hahaha but every deer I shoot with a rage 450 grain set up only runs 60 yards. So it was making it hard for me to switch. And that’s it probably because I was being talked into something that is not necessary. I’m shooting bear eko divergent. 30 inch draw 70 pound. 340 Easton axis. 25 grain insert and 100 grain tip.

@montuckyman4982

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not a mechanical fan but that set up will kill anything in north America. Anything. A solid , strong arrow system and sharp ,strong fixed blade or quality mechanical like a Sevr 1.5 or swacker would be my choice.

Great video Jack. Yes we need to tweak Ashby’s report to the equipment being used and continue to research all aspects bow hunting and the size of animal we want to kill.

@davidholliday3286

2 жыл бұрын

Ashby has some new stuff out that is pretty interesting.

@Bowhunter1300

2 жыл бұрын

There’s no need to tweak Dr. Ashby’s reports for modern equipment. Arrow penetration is arrow penetration, the arrow doesn’t care what type of bow it was launched from or what decade it happened in. The reports center on building a hunting arrow that will maximize penetration and lethality. If you want to say we don’t need to do all of those things because modern equipment is good ‘nuff, then ok, fine. But don’t say we need to approach what Dr. Ashby reported differently because that was years ago and equipment is better now. If the 12 factors made arrows penetrate better, and thus, be more lethal 20 years ago then those gains will be even greater with modern equipment. The Ashby Bowhunting Foundation is still doing research today with the latest hunting equipment and modern testing technology/methods, and it all backs up everything Dr. Ed found 30 years ago.

@raymondcava4669

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bowhunter1300 I totally agree, what I was trying to say is make the equipment as best as you can without undermining Dr. Ashby‘s report.

Have had pass throughs with 409gr 435 gr 509 gr and 534 gr arrows. Im settling in in that high 400s as a sweet spot for me and recently got some 475 gr arrows, still looking for time to shoot. 29.5 inch draw 64 lb 2014 bowtech carbon knight

@aarontaylor6000

Жыл бұрын

What was your arrow speed ? I am 28 inches dl and 62 lbs dw my arrow speeds is 258 fts with arrow weight at 390 gn on my BowTech carbon icon

@jaminberg9323

Жыл бұрын

@@aarontaylor6000 bowtech carbon knight 30 inch 64lb this is paper math and not chrono 409gr arrow 298fps 432gr arrow 291fps 509gr arrow 265fps I dont know on the arrows that weigh in the 470s, would just guess 275-280??

How about a video on how to achieve perfect arrow flight. Start to finish ( NO SKIMPING)

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

Strongly recommend you check this out...kzread.info/head/PLedhoxovSLbGFMlXoc4-lcIzLtsPCVvD7

Thanks for the work that you do to make your videos. I find them helpful. I have heard of one case of a hunter actually aiming for the shoulder with a really heavy setup expecting to blow through it. He ended up losing the deer. I'm glad you mentioned the ethical consideration that when things go wrong, a setup may help, but to not take low percentage shots trying to prove something.

huge supporter of the Ashby foundation. I know for myself a 26.5 inch draw and light arrows I had big problems with getting arrows through enough chest cavity to kill the animals I hunt. After reading the Ashby research and following what they found. 28% foc with perfect arrow flight , I go straight through all game I hunt now with a almost perfect recovery rate. maybe you guys with a longer wing span do not have those problems.

After doing the process I went from sticking derr to killing them regularly. Trad and compound. But everyone has a different way to get it done so have fun

@h2olove

3 жыл бұрын

I think the results of the process speak for themselves. It works.

What about arrow dynamics arrows. Super tough tapered shafts?

I'm not a Avid Hunter period And I do agree with you on some things in that Ashby chart thing. Need to be updated to current times. Because of the new technologies and materials it makes sense to get them updated and out of the ancient history.

Great video so many people overlook the first 2. Doesn't matter how heavy the arrow is if it falls apart or is flying sideways. I shoot a 567g total weight arrow with 275g up front out of my PSE Full Throttle set at 62 pounds and 28in draw. Its coming off the bow at 265fps.

@MrBrandonPetersen

2 жыл бұрын

How in the world is a 62 lb bow shooting a 567g arrow at 265. 🤣

@kayaken-nc407

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrBrandonPetersen well probably because it's a speed bow and one of the fastest bow made.

Context, as with most things in life, is pretty important here

@HondoTrailside

3 жыл бұрын

Most of his context was wrong, I guess he could ask his parents as they may have been alive at the time.

I bought my first compound bow by mail order from a magazine in 1982. Shot with fingers, how else in those days? Wooden arrows and no sights. Even at 20 yards you could see the arrow flight and an obvious drop. Much deliberation, local golf course too busy, too old to ride a mountain bike, etc, yesterday I bought a new BEAR compound. The difference between it and my first bow is astounding.

I liked your spin on the Ashby reports. I recently listened to Steven Rinella's podcast with Dr. Ashby. It was fascinating and his ability to quote statistical data off the top of his head is uncanny. I did pick up on a few things you said that were different in Dr. Ashby's discussion. For example when discussing shaft size, it was with respect to ferrule size, not broadhead cut size. And it was in reference to the arrow shaft following the wider channel left by the ferrule for a better chance at a pass through. Now I'm no expert, but I do have to agree that structural integrity and perfect arrow flight are most important and not mutually exclusive.

Excellent breakdown. I really like you stressing the point that no matter what we should not be purposely taking risky/low probability shots. Could not agree more.

lots to digest and good info. i shoot 60#, 27" draw, 440 grain micro VAP arrow w 350 spine, magnus buzzcuts and they blow through whitetail big and small. only thing i might change is to a 300 spine although no problem at all w current set up.

Man this is so good! Very well put together and great insight. What bothers me about this is how defense some people get about this all. We all want the same thing good quick ethical kill shots. No one is telling you what you have to shoot and no one is preaching taking shots through shoulders. Shoot what makes you happy and you belive is the most ethical thing.

@pcball71

11 ай бұрын

I have noticed it mostly comes down to what "camp" you subscribe to. I have observed various sources and almost all of them agree, get the bow tuned, figure out what arrows shoot best from that bow, and then set up the arrow to what works for you and what you hunt. PERIOD. Seeing the animosity toward this guy or that guy is ridiculous. We should all be working to get more bows in more hands and exposing more folks to archery. That should be the only goal.

How long arrows do you have with your 31 DL? Do you have the same length for hunting, 3D and target?

@averagejackarchery

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. My arrows are all pretty much cut to 31".

@elinhiller5010

2 жыл бұрын

@@averagejackarchery I'm new to archery and i'm still looking for my first bow. I've tried to calculate my DL and i think i've got 30.5-31. (this is my wifes computer and account so i'm a man haha) Because i'm in Sweden and we only got 2 stores in the whole country that are selling bows it's not that easy to get into archery and i don't know anyone actually who are. John Dudley got a video about finding out the DL and it works best for me. I'm only 5'10 with a wingspan of 78.6 but i got really wide shoulders so i measured 30.4 with John's method. So, i've read that a lot of guys go with like 1-2 inch shorter arrows than their DL and i don't know what to go with and i'm ordering online... You think i should go safe and buy 30 inch arrows? Thanks Jens Hiller

Trajectory vs opening up more shots with heavier arrow is the basic trade off

I have killed lots of deer before I knew of foc. I had a bear bow as my first bow in 1982. Then 1988 it was traded in for an American. Started killing deer in the later 90s with it. Old school stuff gets the job done. I now hunt with tx2000 hoyt from 2004. It sill kills deer. The lighter arrows caused 2 more deer to get away. So 3 deer got away in 25 years of bow hunting. I am ready to go heavy arrows again cause light arrows aren't 100% if plan B happens

@steve8828

3 жыл бұрын

I believe more deer are lost due to liver/gut shots than inability to penetrate. Heavy arrows will not fix this.

@brokenarrow6491

2 жыл бұрын

@Nooneinparticular987 Come on man. I've been hunting whitetails for 49 years and I've never heard of anyone aiming in front of the heart. Not even with a rile. If you hit that main front shoulder bone your not going through it with any weight arrow. I've seen muzzleloader bullets not go through that bone. The shoulder blade is no problem. I broke both front shoulder blades on a buck with a 373 grain arrow shooting 70lbs. I've been shooting this setup for 10 years and have never left an arrow in a deer except for the one that broke both front shoulders. A rib is never a problem either. Never even need to consider it. I shot a buck last week out of a ground blind and the arrow was 30 yards past where I shot the deer. This whole penetration thing is so misunderstood for shooting whitetails. When I was 11 I was shooting a 43 lb recurve but my draw was so short that I was actually shooting about 30 lbs with a bear razor head and shot a buck though the lungs at 23 yards and the arrow went through the deer and fell out the back side. So it doesn't take much to shoot through a deer. The problem today is people don't really tune their bow or they shoot big mechanical broadheads shooting low poundage and a light arrow. You have to have a tuned bow and choose the proper arrow weight and match the broadhead to your setup.

Great information!!!

From my understanding your main objection about high FOC with modern equipment is that is not easily achievable with modern equipment. Something that you haven't mentioned also is how high Foc contributes to the two first prime value factors. Higher Foc stabilizes the arrow faster that means better arow flight and I'm not saying you have to go over 550 grain of an arrow FOC is a percentage factor. It also ads to structural integrity because the heavier front is going to drive and drug the lighter back easier and faster trough flesh and bone. My solution.... 4 or 5 buckshot lead particles staked and glued with epoxy at the back of my insert. Light, strong, high FOC, low arch flying tackdrivers...

@JedlyMT

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! Thank you.

FIRST going back to the 80’s PLEASE PLEASE take me 😂. I never knew the original report was that old. And till now really didn’t know anything about it.

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

Your mullet tells me you've brought the 80s with you.... #besthairinWV

@bkbowhunter1

3 жыл бұрын

@@averagejackarchery 😎👍

Have you tried Grizzlystik Momentum TDTs?

Great video. Thanks.

Very informative thank you

I tried real heavy arrows (630 grain) and the trajectory dramatically reduced the shot opportunities - run a Triax @28.5” and 70lb. Then tried the other end of the spectrum around 350 grain and had two deer basically trot away. I settled around 520 - gets great pass through and doesn’t overly limit potential range.

@MrShysterme

3 жыл бұрын

If you were shooting 70 lbs and had deer trot away with a 350 grain arrow, then you either had a horrible broadhead or you didn't hit them where you think you did or you were hitting the heaviest bone possible for your general placement (like head of humerus or center of vertebrae). I shot 60 lbs, 30 inches with a 380 grain arrow for years and they went through deer like a nail gun, even shooting decent mechanicals like a grim reaper but doubly so with a fixed blade.

@brokenarrow6491

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrShysterme I agree with you..I shoot 373 grains at 70 pounds and it's devastating on whitetails. It always blows through them.

@MrShysterme

2 жыл бұрын

@@brokenarrow6491 the other things i forgot to mention as culprits typical bow shop (not well) tuned bow/arrow and poor form that causes poor flight even out of well tuned bow if your arrow hits at a 45 degree angle, then only around half of the energy goes into the tip

On those black hornets, your do the regular or serrated?

@averagejackarchery

3 жыл бұрын

I'm a straight edge man myself. But I've killed a lot with the SeRazors and the Buzzcuts.

The tapered shaft was mostly to reduce the fletching contact when shooting off the shelf, with traditional bows, that didn't have risers that were cut, past center shot. Not for more F.O.C or to be able to grip the bowstring, considering alot were shot " Apache Sytle" ( 3 fingers under the arrow)

Great Video

The first 2 factors and a sharp cut on contact blade are the most important factors in my opinion. I shoot a recurve so I like to have a bit more total weight and some more FOC (what I can get with wooden arrows) to make up for the lower speed but I cannot imagine shooting 15+ gpp like some trad bowhunters do.