Love your video, so informative, a balanced process to provide the data. These really are so well produced and thought through, well done mate.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the compliment Mark. This was a video I ended up putting a fair bit of work into, in order to treat the subject fairly.

very thorough and informative,,, ,,,,,,,,,when my ruger no 1 gets warm the point of impact tends to shift a fair amount, not really a problem for a hunting rifle but something to be aware of when working through hand loads

I started playing with my 45/120 back in the he late 80's. My rifle is a Winchester Hi-Wall manufactured in 1888 with a 29" #3 octagon barrel. it was originally chambered in 32/40 but was rebored and chambered in 45/120. .456 dia with a 1-16" twist. I also had the firing pin bushed down to modern size. There wasn't much smokeless data available at the time so I used a Homer Powley calculator in a lot of my research. As I stated in my previous comment I found 90 grains of IMR 4064 worked well under a 300 grain jhp. It produced velocities of just under 2800fps. The Hornady and Sierra 300 bullets lack a heavy enough jacket to be pushed any faster than this in my rifle. Any faster velocities than this would result in mid flight disintegration. While testing powders with my Hoche pp 605, I was concerned with the large empty space and went back and forth on fillers. Around 1990-91 I called Homer Powley, he was a wealth of information and a wonderful guy to talk with. One of the questions I asked him was about detonation, and he said he had never seen it in all tests they'd tried in the lab. He said the only way they'd been able to hurt something was with a overload. At the time I was trying some slower burning powders like R-22 and 90grains only filled half the case and the stories of detonation where always in the back of my mind. Anyway, I finally went to a duplex load consisting of a federal mag primer, 12 grains of 4759 and 108 grains of ff black under my pp 605. It is not for the faint of heart, in my steel butt plate long drop stock in my rifle that weighs in at 9-1/2 lbs. Off the shooting bench I could tolerate 3 shots and then would wait a couple hours for the next 3. Well enough of my ramblings, the rifle and cartridge are a Hoot to shoot and is enough gun for anything that crosses your sight

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience. That's some serious velocities you're getting from those 300 grain bullets! Must be quite a bit of recoil to deal with. On the topic of detonation, it's nice to hear what you've learned as well. The only reason I use fillers is because the chronograph tells me I get more consistent muzzle velocities that way.

I've got a 1885 in 45/120 and shot it a lot. Used everything from 300 grn jhp to a 605 pp bullet. I liked a 300 jhp over 90 grains of IMR 4064, wonderful fox to deer load. Also shot the 605 over 12grns 4759 under 108 grns of ffblack

I used to have a Remington in .44-140 and I always used smokeless powder and polyester fiber for filler as IMR 4064 barely filled the huge case half-way. I'd have to look in my "recipe box" for the exact load, but I used either a 405 grain lead bullet for "plinking" or a 575-ish grain (pure Linotype metal) for serious target shooting. 575 was what Lyman called it out in pure lead. As I recall, it cast at just under 550 grains in Linotype. Both used lubricated paper patched bullets- I found DuPont "Slip Spray" aerosol Teflon to be the best lube. Minimal leading and fouling and no powder contamination. Honestly, black powder was too hard on the brass and a HUGE pain to clean the rifle (soap and hot water!). I discovered Federal Large Rifle Magnum primers (biggest "fire starters") to be a major accuracy improver.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

11 ай бұрын

Interesting info! Thanks for sharing your experience.

Thanks for sharing. I have a No 1 in 45/70. It’s been years ago, but I downloaded some loads and found out the hard way with such a light load of powder without a filler, the powder, I don’t remember the grains or powder used at the time, had incomplete ignition and would lodge the bullet just inside the rifling. With a filler had no issues.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience Chris. The lodging of a bullet in the barrel can also result from accidentally skipping a case and not putting any powder in it. Then, when the cartridge is fired, the primer (on its own) has enough power to get the bullet into the barrel, but not all the way out. It's for that reason that good reloaders always eye-inspect each case after the powder-filling stage, to ensure none have been skipped. Even worse than a bullet being stuck in the barrel is not noticing it initially and then firing another round through the gun (guaranteed to blow up the rifle). But, as you say, I suppose the same can happen if you use way too little powder to begin with. Good to keep such things in mind. I've definitely found I get more consistent powder ignition when using filler.

Brother your videos areas informative. I follow all of them.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks John. I'm glad to hear that!

Beautiful rifle. Thanks for the education sir.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Mark!

Great video! I've been using a pedersoli sharps in 45-120 since 95. I had little luck with black powder accuracy wise. Probably my fault and lack of experience at the time. Switched to imr 3031, and 4198. With cotton filler. It's plenty accurate for moose out to 200 meters. A couple of work related surgeries have gotten in the way of hunting in the last couple of years. So maybe I'll get out with the sharps or .58 enfield musketoon this year. Thanks for your videos!

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience Richard and hope you heal fully.

MAN! I just love that rifle of yours!!

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Fer. It's pretty special to me.

A very beautiful weapon. Simply amazing.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

10 ай бұрын

Thanks.

@temnysh

10 ай бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles It’s a pity that such weapons are not sold here. I really want to have it...... ..... Although I think the Kalashnikov assault rifle is the best. But here it is a classic.

Great video and explanation. I haven’t done extensive testing as you have but I am currently shooting a Uberti highwall in 45-120 using 5744 powder and also using cotton balls as filler. Using a 500gr cast I’m getting in the lower 1600’s. Recoil is there but It’s not too bad on the shoulder. Using the same 500gr bullet and 5744 powder in my 1886 45-90 I’m a hair under 1900fps which with the steel crescent butt plate really lets you feel it.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, those crescent-shapped butts can be a pain Bigboreleveraction. A fact not many people are aware of when it comes to the crescent-shaped butt plates (in case you're not aware): Instead of placing them against your shoulder, they are supposed to be cupped against your upper bicep. That method of holding rifles was fine, back when black powder was the norm, due to much lower recoil energies. With the advent of modern smokeless cartridges, crescent-shaped butts are rather out of place, but manufacturers keep making some guns that way because people like the way they look.

@bigboreleveraction933

3 жыл бұрын

I hold them on the outer portion of my shoulder just above my bicep. Feels much better and less felt recoil.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@bigboreleveraction933 Yeah, I should have said "above the bicep." Thanks for the correction.

Thanks for sharing your test results. I shoot a #1 in 45-70 and have gone away from a long day at the range with much soreness and bruising. I've talked to the techs over at Accurate years ago and they strongly discourage fillers in 5744 but your results speak for themselves. I do a lot of paper patching with excellent results. Ever try it?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

I haven't tried paper patching with this cartridge (yet). Would be interesting to give it a try some day though. After the 24 shots I made for this video, my shoulder wasn't even sore, actually. The rifle weighs about 11 lbs, so that makes for about 31 ft-lbs of recoil. Kind of similar to shooting a 7mm Rem Mag.

very informative glad i found you. i shoot 45/70s out of a danish rolling block made in 1873. the round is a lil different than a 45/70 but using it this way is perfectly acceptable practice. recently bought a lee hollow base bullet mold 460 diameter accuracy inproved quite a bit as 460 diameter is closer to what the danish rolling block is i shoot trapdoor pressures to be safe but without gas checks will have to be happy with my lower velocities thanks for your videos

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting gun to reload for. And, yes, you certainly won't need gas checks at trapdoor velocities. When it comes to preventing leading, correct sizing is king.

@forrest5050

3 жыл бұрын

i have thousands of gas checks i have purchased i wont live long enough to use them all at the rate i shoot. i watched this video and would offer this advice i would def ad something to keep the powder up against the primer. when you do reduced powder loads which is basically what you have with those john holmes cases you should consult your powder manufacturer to see if it is safe with that powder. air bubbles are unsafe in guns especially black powder rifles thats why so many yayhoos blew theyre rifles up when the inlines came out. powder up against the bullet always now with that dinasaurian rifle you have youre not going to explode anything

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@forrest5050 air space, when it comes to black powder is something you want to avoid alright. Smokeless... not so much a danger in blowing up a rifle, but more in terms of attaining consistent muzzle velocities. Black powder and smokeless are very different animals, each with their own rules.

Very nice drawing.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 ай бұрын

Thanks James.

After I bought my Ruger No. 1 in 458 WM I couldn't find any brass for reloading. There was brass for the 458 Lott so that and a chamber reamer showed up at my door. Had I known of the 45-120 I'd have researched if a chamber reamer would have worked instead. Nice !!

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I had no idea .458 Win Mag brass was that hard to get.

@paulmallery6719

Жыл бұрын

It was enough material to go lott

I reload all of my calipers from 243 to 50 BMG. My 50 is a Dryer SH 50 an unbelievable accurate gun. I shoot 690gr M33 ball, I use 238 gr of H50BMG and abeslutely no filler. The primer is designed to ignite sa many grains of powder as possible at once. The power is extruded long grains designed to burn the length of the barrel

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing that Michael. Part of the reason I keep my charges on the low side is because, when it comes to accuracy and leading, cast bullets have their limits. I use my own cast bullets because I like to be the maker of as many components that go into making the cartridge as possible. Then, when I get a moose, bear or deer that way, it seems more gratifying.

Beautiful rile, I wouldn’t want to get it dirty. I have just bought a No 1 in 45 70, really interested in your findings. And the discussion with experienced shooters. I don’t know the answer to the question’s yet. I now know what the questions are. Thanks. I bought 45 70 for options. Deciding to use black or smokeless might depend on what is available. Or when and where I shoot. I doubt if I will ever hunt with it, nice to have the option though.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

The old straight-walled cartridges are fun to experiment with alright. Have fun!

I've tried a few different fillers (kapok, dacron) for double rifles with reduced loads, and have found Puff Lon pretty good stuff. It does make a bit of a mess, as it does not all burn so there's little beads 20' down range, but seems to give me very consistent velocities and although I have no mechanical means of testing chamber pressure, there are no obvious indications of excessive pressure such as overly expanded cases or flattened primers. A small can of it goes a long way as well. I've used it in smokeless loads with .50-140's in a Shiloh Sharps, .450#2, .450 NE, .500 BPE, and .470 NE all with good results.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing what's been working for you Mark. I just looked up Pufflon and it looks quite interesting.

@chrisaumaugher3732

9 ай бұрын

I have even used cream of wheat, LOL.

I shoot 45/70 with a 1 inch square of 2 ply toilet paper seated on the powder to keep it against the primer with a wooden dowel. This is for 1100 - 1200 fps range loads with Unique, Herco or Red Dot. Spent cases come out really clean with the TP in place, not so clean without. Accuracy is excellent, velocities consistant. I once tried H4198 without TP which left a bullet stuck 3 inches up the barrel and a breech full of unburnt powder. Aparantly Alliant now warn against the use of wads or any type of filler such as cornmeal, dacron, Kapok etc due to cases of ringed chambers and bulged barrels. I've shot well over 5000 rounds with TP without problems and I expect a small tuft of cotton wool will be plenty safe as well.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience! I've used 4198 quite a bit in the past for my .45-120 as well. I'm rather surprised to read what happened in your case, as that's a very easily-ignitable powder.

@85waspnest

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles I'd loaded 50 rounds with a start load of 28 grains of H4198 to try in a newly aquired H&R trapdoor Springfield officers model. The first two shots went pfhutt. After clearing the stuck bullets and unburnt powder, the remaining 48 rounds fired after tipping the muzzle to 45 degrees to settle the powder against the primer. After this I used a square of TP and all was well. Thinking back, I was new to reloading 45/70 and someone advised using a very light crimp or none at all in single shot rifles. This my well have been the cause of the squibs. I eventually traded the Trapdoor for a Chiappa Winchester 1886 which I love and shoot 100 x 45/70 light target loads through every week.

Great video, I've been enjoying going through your catalog. Very beautiful rifle, and good data on filler. An interesting tidbit, I have 3 rifles in 405 Winchester, two 1895s, and one 1885. My favorite load is a woodleigh bullet, either a .410 400 grain solid or .411 400 grain soft, at 2100 fps. Out of the 1895s, its somewhere around 48 lbs of recoil. The rifles weigh around 8 lbs. Out of the 1885, the recoil is roughly 42.5 lbs, rifle is 9 lbs. Funny enough, the 1885 smacks you harder, which I believe is due to the crescent steel plate it has. The 1895s have shotgun style steel plates, and they are also a bit wider than the crescent. I got it the 1885 not only some long range fun and hunting but, also because I thought it be a better platform to introduce people to the cartridge but, no, that turned out to be surprisingly wrong haha. I can shoot a few boxes through the 1895s with only a little stiffness the next day but, the 1885 you can definitely feel it the day after and a bit more if you try to shoot the same amount. Regardless, I love them all. Edit: haven't measured the velocity yet from the 1885, has 4 more inches than the 1895s, at a 28 inch barrel.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

That's quite a bit of recoil you're dealing with there Basidial! With my rifle weighing in at 11 lbs, I calculate the recoil being 31.4 ft-lbs. Mine has a 29" heavy Douglas barrel.

@ManMorFlo

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles Haha, it is indeed a solid amount of recoil though, it's honestly not as bad as it sounds, even with the 1895 having a low comb, straight stock with a steel plate. It's quite manageable, and you can shoot it pretty darn fast. Besides that, I'll say again, beautiful rifle. The 45-120 is a wonderful looking cartridge, and that ruger is really special.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@ManMorFlo Thanks. That rifle's very special to me.

Shooting the heavy charge behind the 605 would result in the muzzle vertical, and pushing me back a step, and turning me half way around. A couple of my friends were shooting a 475 nitro and a 450 nitro in double rifles, we would often shoot together. They refused my offer to try a shot or two after witnessing me touch a couple off. A couple years later I got into smallbore 4-position competition shooting and slowed down on the big bore stuff alot.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's gotta be brutal. Especially with a steel butt plate!

interesting - have you tried cornmeal for fill - ive used it without incident --- my 45-90 dont have no recoil pad - straight cresent steel lol - you feel that - thanks for sharin

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

Haven't tried cornmeal Grim. I came across a study or two that concluded it was not that good for a number of reasons (too long ago to remember exactly why).

I use polyester filler in my 45/70 cast loads. the polyester melts (I think, because I have never found any walking to and from the target) and I have never had an issue. I had a friend who used to use poly and cream of wheat sometimes. unfortunately cancer took him a couple of years ago. I have used acetone in the barrel to see if i could get any melted polyester (pillow stuffing) out of the barrel. but none has ever shown up. so maybe it melts outside of the barrel. I did try cream of wheat, but the primers showed higher pressure, and its pretty dirty. for me, I like the poly fill. i buy the "sheets" (for quilting) rather than the bulk fluff/ It's WAY EASIER to cut and stuff into the case. I have 2 bullet molds for my 45-70. a "Ranch Dog" 350 grain flat nose gas check mold, and a Lee 405 grain hollow base mold. I used to hunt with it (a Marlin Guide Gun) , but I am to busted up and half crippled now, so I only target shoot with it now. I would encourage you to try the poly fill. I am certain that it collapses into the back of the bullet upon firing, thus lowering pressure. but it keeps the powder down against the primer for reliable ignition.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing the results of you're experimenting with fillers. Sounds like you've come up with a good solution.

I find most calibres I load for benefit from using a filler, I use foam, although armchair "experts" tell us it will cause a chamber bulge, extensive tests printed up in the Double Gun Journal proved that this was not the case, in fact using a filler keeps the powder up at the primer end of the case giving much more consistent ignition, the problem with most early cartridges is that they have enormous capacity ,and modern smokeless just does not come close to filling them, especially the big Nitro Express cases where even 120 Grns of nitro lurks in the bottom of the case, so without a filler you just get uneven burning, and therefore inconsistent velocities. Stay safe! Chris B.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, it looks like we're on the same page with this.

I would like to start reloading for a #1 in .375H&H I intend to cast and load down for whitetail. Is it possible to get away with a cast bullet and not need a gas check?

have you tried magnum primrers with the 45-120?

Just curios if you tried corn meal as filler as Ive read of its use historically with black powder in its day.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

I've definitely considered it (even bought some in preparation to use it, years ago), but decided against it, based on some testing results I've read. Among other things, it may not be the best for the barrel.

Ok, so what can I say but WOW! Never in my wildest dreams did I expect a T-test to be run on shot data from your moose rifle That takes me right back to my college "Sadistics" class ( only your example is way more intriguing than what we learned from). 1 question: how do you carry your Ruger through the bush and not worry about scratching her up? That's a beautiful rifle!

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Heh. I'm a bit of a math nerd I guess. I'm no expert in it, but I find the subject of statistical analysis quite intriguing and useful in the context of load development, so I can get a better idea of how much certainty my testing results produce. With the Ruger (having no safety), I simply chamber a round with the lever hanging down (so the block isn't up behind the round). That makes it quite safe to carry. My reloads stick in the chamber very well, so no fear of them falling out.

Nice testing. All my old manuals recommend fillers for loads like yours, my modern manuals advise against it. How things have changed! I'd like to know if your testing reveals any practical accuracy differences at hunting distances - filler vs no filler. Many old articles swear that adding filler decreases group size significantly. If that holds true, I'm going to experiment with filler in my 45-70 loads from here on out.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

Ай бұрын

While it's hard to come to definite conclusions of group sizes when iron sights are involved, I can attest to the fact that using filler results in more consistent muzzle velocities when using a chronograph.

I have heard of using cornmeal as a case filler. Be it straight wall case or bottle neck case.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

9 ай бұрын

Yes, I've come across that advice too. I avoid it because I don't want to encourage fouling of my barrel. The cotton batten seems to work just fine for the job.

Excellent video! This is a question that I've wanted to ask: Do both the .45-120 and .45-125 Sharps cartridges have the same external dimensions, with the 45-125 Sharps having slightly thiner case walls to hold an extra 5 grains of black powder? or am I completely wrong on that assumption?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

6 ай бұрын

Thanks. I have never heard of a .45-125 Sharps cartridge, to be honest. Are you sure you're not confusing it with the .45-110?

@user-jm6hh7op3w

6 ай бұрын

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles No, I'm not confusing it with the .45-110 Sharps. I first learned of it in the article "Buffalo Cartridges of the American Frontier By Chuck Hawks". The article also mentions that the .45-120 Sharps and the .45-125 Sharps cartridges are interchangeable with one another and were created in either 1878 or 1879, before the Sharps Rifle Manufacturing company went out of business in 1881. There's also another unrelated cartridge called the .45-125 Winchester (also known as the .45 Express), which was a special-order chambering for Winchester single-shot rifles loaded between 1886-1916.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

6 ай бұрын

Interesting, that's the first time I've heard of the .45-125! Thanks. For others reading, that article can be found here --> chuckhawks.com/buffalo_cartridges.htm

@user-jm6hh7op3w

6 ай бұрын

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles You're welcome. And if you're looking for more .45-120 Sharps brass for your Ruger No. 1 in the future and can't find any, try looking for .45-125 Sharps brass instead. Take care and happy hunting!

I’ve read that you need to consider any filler as fuel in the combustion as well. Some recommend pillow fill but an oil based filler would be more a fuel than cotton (as you are using). Why not just use an altered gas check? Punch a bunch of holes too small for your powder and push it in like you would the cotton. Serves the same purpose but the aluminum would be neutral as a fuel. I’ve been looking into this topic for 357mag loading. Seems like it’s not worth it in my case but I do wonder if higher consistency can be had with more uniform ignition.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment, but I'm not sure what you mean about punching a bunch of holes in the gas check. Sounds like you're describing a wad, like used in black powder cartridges. "Neutral" does not seem to be an inherent advantage or goal to strive for. For accuracy, consistency is the main thing. If the filler contributes a tiny bit (and it would probably be immeasurably tiny compared to the high-enery smokeless powder), that's fine, so long as it's consistent from shot to shot.

That’s a thumper of a round….. nice video

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Yup, that 535 grain bullet hits like a freight train.

In a 1980 article on Sharps rifles, written by Elmer Keith, he was asked what was the best smokeless load for his 45-120. His answer, in one word, was "none". If black powder was good enough for 'ole Elmer, then black powder is good enough for my BP cartridges.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment Ralph. My response to that? Well, I get the feeling that some people follow whatever others do and others think for themselves, I guess. Unless it's dangerous, I encourage people to take into account the experience of others, but not be bound by it because everyone has circumstances that influenced that advice that may or may not apply to them. Keep in mind that the experts too, also tended to go their own way. That's what makes them special. Maybe you like cleaning your rifle every few shots to keep it functional, maybe you don't. Maybe your main interest is shooting in historically accurate BPCR matches at steel targets at known distances (so bullet arc doesn't matter once dialed in). Or maybe (like me) the rifle is more utilitarian, being put more to its original use, which was to bring down very big game using the best technology available. In the latter case, flattening the trajectory and adding 200 fps to the bullet makes good sense. Remember we are all individuals, not obliged to be representatives of some group whose flag we need to carry. In the end, it's your gun, your goals, your choice.

I have a 50/140 705 grain with 120 gr 2 ff power I fill the case with corn meal,to the tip just back off the lands for less jump,8 inch group at a 1000 yards and no problem so far

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

5 ай бұрын

Wow. That's mighty good!

The 45-120 is the older British 450 Black Powder Express. Same shell. Definitely MUST use filler in any cartridge that has air space. Or else you will have a big problem. I use Dacron pillow filler over a cardboard wad in both the black powder and smokeless substitute loads. Only IMR4198/ H4198 are safe as a substitute.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

6 ай бұрын

4198 is good, but I my tests indicate IMR 5744 is slightly better. It's specifically made for cartridges with charges that do not fill the case if you check the Lyman manual.

@pamtnman1515

6 ай бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles I am a devotee of the Ross Seyfreid formula of loading nitro for black. 4198 burns at exactly the right rate, though I will admit I am unfamiliar with 5744. I like your Ruger #1, fabulous firearm. I am reading The Libranos, by Ezra Levant of Rebel News in Canada. Your Justine Trudeau is a dangerous and very evil person

Unless you're going to use blackpowder loads for the 45/120 you are not gaining any velocity over the 45/70 with smokeless loads and no filler needed. That is a beautiful custom Ruger #1 but I think I would have chambered it for the more versatile 45/90 which would handle any 45/70 loads plus be capable of loading 45/90 loads which can easily exceed 4000 ft lbs of muzzle energy! No criticism, just a thought.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, those are interesting points you raise Mark. As for the comparison of the 45/70 and 45/90 when it comes to smokeless powders, I have done some research and documented my findings in a very short video which you may enjoy taking a look at. Feel free to comment on it, if you like. That video can be found here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/k6qexax9frObYMo.html Also related to this topic is another short video I have put together, which you can find here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gq2iqZOCaa6vlNY.html Cheers.

@paulmallery6719

Жыл бұрын

Showpiece

@markloomis1415

Жыл бұрын

The 45/120 is certainly an impressive looking cartridge but having to use a filler to take up all that airspace never appealed to me. Thats why I made the comment about the 45/90. I'm using Starline brass in my 45/90 and it's thick and strong. I don't know what brass you are using but I do know for a fact that the Ruger #1 is super strong. I would experiment with a bulkier powder like one of the 4350's that would fill the case more and work it up to your desired velocity. I love your rifle by the way as I have several #1s but never a custom like yours. I do have a couple of custom marlins in 45-70 made by Dakota arms that have taken much game including two bison and a waterbuffalo in Argentina! Like you, I love my bigbore rifles. PS, your website is clever.

Some people use cream of wheat as a filler

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I've heard of that and contemplated doing so as well. A test of different fillers I came across indicated cream of wheat was not as good as some other substances though, so I decided not to.

@ditchdigger93

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles Nope, I just watched a video of a guy that used it, made a hell of a mess in the gun. I'd stick with Kapok if you can find it. I've read that it may be available in some pet stores. It is used as a soft nesting material for some pets. It is very soft and is very flammable it is said.

@TeensierPython

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, cream of wheat is a bad idea. Leave it in your breakfast bowl.

If I calculated correctly, a 535 grain bullet at 1648 fps equals 3227.8 pound feet of energy at the distance of you chronograph. Most certainly plenty of energy for moose hunting.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, that's about right. Somewhere around the energy of a 7mm Magnum (which I think is not bad for a cast bullet). When you're shooting cast, you have to keep in mind the muzzle velocity limitations (they tend to not behave well at higher velocities). So, as a cast bullet shooter, I compensate for the lower velocity and lesser amount of expansion by going to a very heavy bullet with a large diameter. It works well; I've brought down a number of moose (and other big game) with that load up here in Canada.

Have you tried a softer bullet? With my Sharps 45-110, I have found that wheel weights are too hard (13 BHN). After trying a few combinations, I have found that a bullet around 8 BHN will mushroom very nicely at around 1200 fps. Also, I have found that there is far less leading of the barrel due to gas cutting of the bullet, due to the increased pressures AND no gas checks are required.

@snoman003

3 жыл бұрын

BTW, for a very cheap solution to testing hardness of lead, research using a Stadeler pencil set and their scale for lead.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience! In my experience (after over 40 years of shooting cast bullets) you can get away with softer lead at lower velocities/pressures but, at the velocities I'm working at, soft no longer works. The biggest factor is the rotational torque of the rifling on the bullet (most people would be very surprised at how fast they spin). As velocities rise, the rotation speed increases to a point where bullet deforms and longitudinal gaps open up on the bullet where the bullet's metal bears on the downside to the rifling torque. Those gaps, once they open up, provide ports for hot combustion gases to jet through, acting like a cutting torch. It's those jets of hot gas that melt/solder the lead alongside the bullet onto the barrel as it travels down the barrel and you get leading. This can happen even though you have the perfect fit (diameter-wise) of the bullet to the barrel. Once you get to sufficiently high velocities/pressures, you have a couple of things you can do to deal the leading issue. You can go to harder alloy (to resist the rotational torque) or use gas checks to seal the base and prevent the gaps from forming. To make the softest lead possible to use, I resort to gas checks (which I make myself from beer can metal). To see how I do that, you can view this video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hqxp1s-Te8LKmqg.html In short, there is no way to get to the 1,600 fps velocities I'm shooting if you're using soft lead. If I could, I would, but it has its limitations. That same softness that permits mushrooming is also what lets gaps open up, causing leading.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@snoman003 I used to do it that way too, but this is what I use now to measure lead hardness and it's very accurate: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZoimqdqNZ87Jhqw.html.

What part of Canuckistan is this? Looks like North central AB or SK. Nice rifle!!! I hope they let you keep it!! I am shooting 50/70 government from an 1866 trapdoor, I 500 grn boolits, and around 1250-1300 FPS. A bit slower than your big 45 no 1. Great video, thanks for sharing!!

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Karson. I'm from central Alberta. Not to worry, those eastern politicians won't be taking our guns! That's good velocity you're getting on 500 grain bullets using a trapdoor.

@karsonbranham3900

3 жыл бұрын

The Way to Native Chronicles - very cool beans! I have done a lot of work around Blackfoot, and also up around The bush up near GP, (west and a bit south). The BP load of 50/70 is about the same as I am shooting with shooters world Buffalo Rifle, it is very close to 5744. I have a Navy Arms/Gibbs, 45/70 frontier rifle (built on a No1 Mk 3 SMLE) I think I could push my reloads with that action close to the velocities of what you are seeing, though it would be a bruiser, the Frontier probably weighs in around 8 pounds. My brother has a 548 grain “NASA” mound, I may try a few of those through it to see what it will do,(besides hurt). If I could bring my guns with me to AB, I would consider living there year round and moving. But alas, not possible. Keep the fires of freedom burning strong! I am pulling for Trump!! So we can see to a continuation of America staying ‘Merica!

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@karsonbranham3900 I think you should be able to get your rifles up here if you moved Karson. Contact a company (in Sherwood Park, near Edmonton) called "IRunGuns" here: www.irunguns.ca/content.php?page=import-process-us-to-canada

What about considering half the filler.....like 1Gr instead of 2Gr? And originally, where did you come up with the 2Gr filler amount? I'm thinking aloud here that there could be a balance in that less filler might do the same job, but with less chance of potentially damaging your barrel?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

It's definitely a judgement call Kevin. I went with 2 grains based on the size of the void needed to fill because, after all, the purpose is to keep the powder in a consistent position. Seems to be work good for me, but that's just one person's experience.

@TheReal1953

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles That's what I was thinking. You might still get the same effect(keeping the powder from moving around) with half the filler. I'm not sure it hast to be literally packed in there.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheReal1953 I should run a test of that some day.

Okay I'm late to this party. I am new around here so maybe my question has been previously answered, but why chamber the rifle for the .45-120 if you are using smokeless? I think a .45-90 Sharps chamber job would have been more useful even if you occasionally use black or black substitute. Your thoughts? By the way, I totally agree on your comments about a hunting rifle vs. a target rifle. I think way too many new hunters get the two confused today.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

It's a bit of a long subject, but I think you'll find the answer to your question in the replies already made below. Thanks for your interest.

I have a Shiloh Sharps 45-120 and also use a 5744 exclusively and I use Dacron pillow stuffing because its springy and you only have to use a very small amount compared to using cotton and Dacron disappears totally once the flame its it.I only use enough to hold the powder charge in place.Like you have have never had any issues by using filler. I use the exact same bullet you do as cast at .459 and no gas checks.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience on this Dennis. Many people have questions and concerns when it comes to using filler.

@dennistaylor6486

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles I shoot lots of other BP cartridge rifles and pistols with smokeless powder with Dacron filler and have yet to have a problem,I get much better performance with fillers than without and the barrels stay much cleaner.Some people use cream of wheat,toilet tissue,fiber wads etc.and as long as whatever you use doesn't act like an obstruction even for a moment there should be no trouble,thats the reason I use Dacron pillow fiber and only enough to hold the powder column in place is it vaporizes when the powder burn hits it. I hand weigh each tuft of Dacron because it acts like fuel and will change the shot to shot consistency if you just tear it off and stuff in in willy nilly and don't pay attention to how much you're putting in each load.I love that Ruger number one you have,I have a customized Ruger number 3 in 375 Win.Big bore so I can appreciate those Ruger single shots.

@dennistaylor6486

5 ай бұрын

The one thing I might add is Dacron filler does add fuel to the burn so its very important to weigh your filler exactly for every round or you could get shot to shot variation if you just stuff it in the case Willy Nilly. @@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

5 ай бұрын

Good point Dennis.@@dennistaylor6486

I see a lot of comments on fillers. I personally think they are dumb. I only load black powder and I strongly believe load it to its full power and avoid the mess, barrel abrasion, and probably smell.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Each to their own, of course. But your comment doesn't make any sense (perhaps you typed it wrong?) With smokeless you get no mess, while with black powder you do. It's one of the biggest motivations for switching to smokeless (assuming your rifle is built strong enough to handle it).

@TeensierPython

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles I’m talking black powder. I don’t like black powder with filler. Just got an email back from C Sharp arms to see what their recommendation is with smokeless. They said I can use the lymans book loads that are compatible with the Ruger no1. So I am going to start experimenting

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@TeensierPython Thanks for the clarification. I see what you meant now. I agree, it's not a good idea to use fillers with black powder. As far as smokeless goes, I think you'll find the Lyman manual a good guide. When you go smokeless you'll probably have to change the way you treat your bullets though. Use the types of lubes smokeless bullet casters use. You might even want to add gas checks if you get some leading with the higher velocities possible. I have an example shown in the video I shared with you earlier: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gq2iqZOCaa6vlNY.html

Your lube where do u get the large alox

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

I bought the alox off eBay, but I don't think it's available there anymore.

I just watched a video wherein the man fired a few rounds into two logs about 8 inches each with a 45-90. The bullet was lighter than this 500 gr. pumpkin but they exceeded 3000 fps. and penetrated 13 inches of solid wood. I guess I don't see any advantage to owning a 45-120 if it is necessary to stuff the case. Why have the extra length if you don't use it.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

@jamesavery6015

2 жыл бұрын

If he is like me, he enjoys the history of the cartridge and the rarity of that particular rifle. I really enjoy making my own powder, bullets, bullet lube and primers. It’s even better when you can get superb accuracy with your homemade components.

Hot barrel increase metal expansion tighter bore..increase pressure..maybe?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

Not noticeably, I think. Plus it's a heavy barrel, so lots of mass.

U can powder coat them 535 grainers and leave off the gas check powder coating is easy check out the videos on cast bullets powder coat on KZread

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I could powder coat them. But to no benefit in terms of saving time or improving accuracy. With a lubrisizer (have you ever used one?), preparing the bullet for loading is almost trivial. To see what I mean, check out this portion of another video I made that walks you through the process: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qKydlJikcaS6ocY.html

@ThemantleofElijah

3 жыл бұрын

I’m watching your videos to gain knowledge about this cartridge, very informative I have no experience with reloading either and I’m wondering on your advice for me I’m interested in these big bore rifles for sure and I once had a sharps 45-70 but what I’m looking for now is an 1885 high wall in 45-120. Would u think I can still get this 45-120 and learn on it as reloading and all of that or should I start with soemthing different I appreciate anything u can give me as advice

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThemantleofElijah You should be able to start reloading with the 45-120, but you'll find far less load data published for it. The latest Lyman manual has probably the most. The 45-120 cases are more expensive (nearly $4.00 a piece) but, once bought, they should last you practically forever. Still, it is a little more advanced to reload the 45-120 in terms of getting your reloading equipment to match (trimming cases for length, you may find they won't even fit in your trimmer device). So, yeah, you could start with 45-120, but it would be a little easier starting with a 45-70. Hope that helps. One caution: Don't be overly-impressed about the powder-coating route. It's often (but not always) adopted by people new to reloading cast bullets, as they don't possess a lubrisizer and don't fully understand how to get cast bullets to shoot well, being overly concerned about things like leading when they need not be.

@ThemantleofElijah

3 жыл бұрын

I did purchase a lubrisizer lyman brand i have a lyman manual too I’m also curious if I can use jacketed bullets for the 120 or is cast only what I should use, yeah I was really wanting to powder coat to eliminate leading but I’m not too concerned, the friend I’m going to buy the rifle from hasn’t shot it and is gonna stick with the 45-90 but I would like to get into the 45-120 for sure but I wanna just make sure that I’m doing something that I’ll be able to do, so I can shoot loads with 5744 without filler then if I understand the video correctly. Also I don’t know if u ever email but if I had ever any questions on it maybe it be easier but this seems to work too I appreciate ur time for sure I’m located down south in the US

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThemantleofElijah you can definitely use jacketed bullets instead of cast. I just use cast because I like to cast bullets. Sounds like you should do okay with the 45-120. That 5744 powder is a good choice for it. And, if you ever get the urge, you could also grow into shooting black powder if you choose. I can't answer individual emails on the subject, but best of luck. You'll do fine.

How would a small muzzleloader wad/patch work?, or maybe paraffin wax

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

There are some possible down-sides to that. Could end up in a high-pressure situation, ruining the barrel.

@WilhelmWilder

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles Oh okay, thank you for the reply. I'm looking at getting into the Sharps world and if I do I'll go 45-120 for sure. 50-90 just doesn't seem that accurate at long range from what I've seen. Do you think I'd be able to load some 45-120 brass with the RCBS Rebel master and nothing else except Bullet, Brass and primer?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

@@WilhelmWilder I'm not familiar with the Rebel Master, so I really can't say Wilhelm. It's a long cartridge and barely fits the opening of my Rock Chucker.

@WilhelmWilder

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles don't quote me but I believe the Rebel has a larger opening

Is there a chance of the filler catching a brushfire ? Another reason no filler ?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

10 ай бұрын

Actually, according to my testing, I'd say there is a slight risk of that. I actually caught on video once, which you can see here: kzread.infoCmWKtjOSNPs?feature=share

@RoswellNative

10 ай бұрын

My thoughts ... maybe wool on a dry hunt? Or I’ve seen ppl adding oats ?

@RoswellNative

10 ай бұрын

Have you tried Trail Boss?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

10 ай бұрын

@@RoswellNative I don't think wool would be an improvement on this aspect, but maybe something like cornmeal would be better. Haven't really tried it.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

10 ай бұрын

@@RoswellNative no, because I want energy superior to what black powder can generate for hunting purposes. If it weren't for that, I might try it.

Magnum primers vs. regular primers?

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

I have only used magnum rifle primers for this rifle Thompson, so I can say how well regular would compare.

You should crimp your bullets when using 5744 they will be more uniform vel.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Tony, thanks for your comment. The reasons I don't crimp are built on a few reasons: 1. Being a single-shot, I don't need crimp to hold the bullet to keep it from shifting due to recoil. 2. Due to their expense and scarcity, I want my brass to last (pretty well) forever. Repeated cycles of crimping and flaring the case mouths work-harden the brass more than any benefit I can justify (not worth it to me). 3. Related to point 2, I am already getting very good Standard Deviations of 8.10 (only 31 fps E.S. over 12 shots tested) 4. Related to point 3, that's plenty good accuracy for the use this rifle is intended for (moose hunting) If you click this link, that will bring you straight to the segment in the video where my chronograph results are shown and discussed: kzread.info/dash/bejne/l4qOpM6FZ8edoLw.html Cheers!

i just use cardboard wads to hold the powder in place in my 410 enfield......granted overpressure isnt going to happen using shotgun powder with a shotgun that used to be a rifle......you could try using that white powder shit they stick in shotgun slugs instead of cotton...but with how flammable cotton is i can see it hurting anything...i may even start using that with my enfield loads

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

You might find using cotton batten easier to reload with. No need to cut out cardboard circles. I weigh each piece of batten I use though, to keep it consistent.

@brettharvey2530

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles i just use the case itself to cut my wads....it wasn't one of the ones that got bored out to accept store bought 410 shells...i have to fire form 303 brit brass and then load those once the neck is gone....but i'll probably use less cardboard and stuff cotton in them now....im not too concerned with weight since most of my loads are just bird shot...with the musket balls i'll try and keep them as consistant as possible but its a smooth bore...so its not like im going to be shooting long distances

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@brettharvey2530 Interesting. Thanks for the clarification Brett.

Never been brave enough to load my .45-90 with smokeless. Wouldn’t even know where to start.

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

I've made the following, short video that addresses that exact question. If you like, you can view it here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gq2iqZOCaa6vlNY.html

How do those bullets expand

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

Based on the one's I've recovered from moose, very little.

@wilmamcdermott3065

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles my 4590 I have tryed to catch a bullet by shooting it through a block of wood and water jugs 6 jugs and 10 in poplar block couldent catch it

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

3 жыл бұрын

@@wilmamcdermott3065 Not sure if you've seen it, but this video of mine also illustrates that point: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZnZpxcGQdrHJeJM.html

@wilmamcdermott3065

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles you do know that u dont need that big case of 45 120 to get those kind of balistics

@wilmamcdermott3065

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheWaytoNativeChronicles i get those kind of balistics out of 4570

Wadding bulging a barrel ?? Sounds like an old wives tail. To bulge a barrel like that one would take a massive over pressure . Yet low charges of slow burning powder is a known danger .

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's quite the controversy among some people. I'm doing okay using it.

🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲👌👌👌👌🙂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Use slower powder and fill it

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

Жыл бұрын

The Ruger No. 1 has a strong enough action to take that alright. I just load to a level I feel is sufficient for the task at hand.

Stop talking

@TheWaytoNativeChronicles

7 ай бұрын

Heh, heh. No!