Many engineers are so overloaded in college that they don't have time to acquire practical hands-on experience and the invaluable understanding that comes along with that. Students can do very well utilizing short-term memorization and use of cook-book methods. I'm not sure the ability to improvise and figure stuff out can really be effectively taught; it's something that requires practice. The most important part of a college education is not learning some specific skills, it is learning how to think. But, we don't test for understanding, and grades are generally not a good metric for thinking ability. When grades are the primary performance metric, and financial aid is tied to academic performance, you really shouldn't be too surprised that students put much more emphasis on grades than learning. It's the difference between focusing on getting results (grades) and focusing on the process (education). If you get the process right, you will get the results you want almost by default (most of the time). The fact many engineering educators don't seem to understand that, and that we are locked-into our current grade-based system is really sad; We have lost something.

@dennisr.levesque2320

6 жыл бұрын

I get what you're saying. But, everybody has to start somewhere. I'm fond of saying that science is the cookbook of making things. Just because you use a cookbook, doesn't mean you can't write your own recipes. The most important part of a college education is whatever it was intended to be, specific skills, or learning how to think, or a combo of the two, depending on the class. The most important part of a college education, is for the student to get some real value out of it (whatever that may be), so it wasn't a waste of blood sweat & tears. Grades are generally not a good metric for thinking ability? Trial & error is even worse. Guessing is even worse than that. Instead of trying to eliminate ANY metrics, lets improve what we got. Heaven forbid that you get placed in an advanced class, when you can only handle the third grade. You can always get skills/talents that is not taught in school. That doesn't make schools bad. Just augment it, if you have to. There's nothing stopping you from going above and beyond the class. It's your life, and only you can live it. As long as you value your own gains, what's it matter that you get an "A" or "F" that no one else values/de-values? I'm sure your superior intellect can compensate for that. But, you can't make someone else value the same things you do. And THAT has nothing to do with a college education.

@chrisdowdle1

4 жыл бұрын

@@dennisr.levesque2320 I love the approach you both have in highlighting the challenges student engineers face while learning the art. It is without question a gauntlet that most will never experience or appreciate, let alone have an upstanding of what engineers do. But in some sense I feel that although both your opinions are absolutely valid, it approaches the problem of problem solving at too high a level (enter systems theory rant lol) in that standard education fails to draw on the lessons learnt though established best practice in thinking, hence philosophy. I can't help by feel that problem solving skills in general (outside of engineering as a discipline at large) would be better off if philosophy was introduced as a concept that guided decision making from a very early age. We as a species are standing on the shoulders of giants, and we're forgetting those giants exist.

@hellomate639

3 жыл бұрын

@@dennisr.levesque2320 IDK. I studied physics and one of my physics major friends was tutoring an engineering senior as a junior studying physics. I think it's possible to consider that the engineering curriculum has ossified somewhat and that it would benefit from some cross training with physics. AND I think physics would benefit from some cross-training with engineers, because if you don't have a good practical knowledge of engineering, you could be completely missing all sorts of basic experimental approaches that you'd think of if you had more exposure to engineering.

@dennisr.levesque2320

3 жыл бұрын

@@hellomate639 I totally agree. And, this is where the difference(s) between the different fields should be re-addressed. I don't know if anyone really defined them. But, I think that science itself is the general field that the rest falls under. Then, comes the categories of Theoretical Science, Applied Science, Physics, Engineering, Chemistry, Biology, etc. But, very few ever mention cross-training. Students are not made aware that it might be necessary. Regardless of where you start, there will always be side fields to be encountered (different ones for different people). The more cross-training you have, the better you can relate to those around you and navigate the field you're in. The earlier you're aware of this, the sooner you can learn to deal with it, and critical thinking might even be a natural skill that accompanies it. But then again, the earlier you're aware of this, the sooner you can learn to deal with it, and critical thinking might even be a worthwhile thing to be learned in school (despite those who think it can't be taught. I wonder if anyone really tried.).

@hellomate639

3 жыл бұрын

@@dennisr.levesque2320 Honestly, 100% of core undergraduate physics classes have application potential in engineering, and to be honest, lots of people who aren't going to grad school would make great engineers if they had some cross training. I.e. if you actually took continuum mechanics, you would have a lot better of a sense of doing FEA.

So true... thank you for contextualizing!

I´m professor of mechanical engineering design at FEI - SBC and since 2011 we are using the same approcach in our classes here. We propose a problem at the beginning of the semester and coach the students in all the steps in the solution. It´s hard work because we found the same difficulties in our students.

@mouadbenhaddi7498

7 жыл бұрын

good morning what do you recommend for reads for us mechanical engineer students in order to get better? i'd appreciate any help i'm suffering the same problem, thank you

muito boa a apresentação. Traduz exatamente o que nós aqui da UFU/FACOM passamos com os nossos alunos e que devemos, de alguma forma, corrigir.

Very inspiring talk by a Master,

Great initiative. We have added this video to our "Great Educational Speakers" playlist at BIN952 youtube channel.

I am a big fan of yours Sir... I have recently worked on optimization task using GENETIC ALGORITHM.....

Those 7 missing concepts are actually taught in a lot of 4 year Bachelors of Science Engineering Technology programs or some Engineering programs like Product design engineering have real world practical approach in their curriculum. The Engineering Technology curriculum is like the classic engineering degree of the 1950s. Most Engineering curriculum needs to have more practical hands on classes, especially creative conceptual design & ideation. Product design engineering does all 7 missing concepts.

I'm an College Industrial Engineering student and that's what we do in the Industrial Engineering Concept's of training and analyzing solving problems and asking question's. We also include Ergonomics and we are working with group of different Engineer's. Maybe Civil eng or mechanical engineers or Electrical eng we fix their problem's and they are the one who is arguing to us . Remember Industrial Engineering is ALWAYS RIGHT!!..we are skilled in asking question's or they ask us question's we identify immediately before minutes. ALSO IT DEPEND's ON ANY TYPE OF COLLEGES.

I think his seven points are actually very perceptive when framed as "important qualities of a good engineer." But I take issue with his contention that these are missing. He should have expanded more on his first point that practical, hands-on problem solving experience is lacking in higher education. I feel like I would be a better engineer if I spent less time studying theories and more time looking at physical equipment and watching things actually getting built.

@killercd7682

7 жыл бұрын

I experienced engineering at university as being 90% deriving maths equations from first principles in dynamics, heat transfer, thermo, fluids etc, which was great fun, and I really enjoyed it. However after four years I didn't feel any confidence in being an engineer, I didn't feel I had any practical, hands on knowledge. Four years of mechanical engineering and I never saw an engine, never built or took apart any piece of machinery, all I knew was abstract theory. My sense was all I was educated to do was then go on and do a Phd on an even more abstract, removed and specialized topic (such as Mach 10 flow over a cube), which was unpalatable to me. There's got to be a way of teaching engineering that retains the link to the real world and benefiting the local community in which we live.

@mouadbenhaddi7498

7 жыл бұрын

good morning Killer CD i'm a mechanical engineer student and we've done here in Morocco a lot of "hands on knowledge', we did not reach a high level of building but we did some of the machining,manipulated machines and programmed robots...at least basic concepts plus some advanced stuff and i guess it is the way in all universities or engineering schools i don't know what you're talking about

@killercd7682

7 жыл бұрын

+Mouad Benhaddi good for you. If you're pleased with your study that's fine.

@dennisr.levesque2320

6 жыл бұрын

How does anyone verify if something is true or not? "Engineer" is a very broad term. If you just want to be a Lego engineer, then all you need is practice without theory. But going beyond that, requires that you're able to compare the practice with the theory, to verify if the real problem is in the practice or the theory. How can you fix the real problem if you're baffled?

This is generalizing that all future engineers are helpless and unable to think for themselves. Asking a question is not a novel concept. Creativity has not be smothered since the cold war. I like to think we have moved a bit forward since then.

@Sortthingsout-79

3 жыл бұрын

Just curious if you still think this now?? So many wearing a mask that doesn't protect from a virus, and yet so many don't ask the question, does this do anything? I see so many people that do what is ask of them instead asking why. At my community college so many of the teachers do not like us to question them! If we don't agree, all of a sudden you are failing the class. Common core, is basically what it means, that all students should have the same core skills. Public schools are intended to make followers, not leaders!! That's what I've learned while in school and working at a public high school for 10 years.

@andrewferguson6901

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sortthingsout-79 masks pretty clearly seem to work. looking at places with and without mask requirements and the rate of new infections in those places bears this out consistently. But more than that.. think back to last winter. couldn't you SEE the difference in breath clouds in the cold air between mask wearers and unmasked people? I think I do agree with a lot of your criticisms of the public school system but the example you chose is not the most scientifically grounded and I feel detracts from your intent.

I loved this video

I believe there was a failure to use reliable research information in determining these 7 missing basics of engineering. Using three students from the university of Illinois does not define the engineers of today.

Now I know why my research experiences always failed miserably.

Did he quit school or did school quit him and just how long was that?

you are on a great mission. all support is with you. too much of engineering education has been impractical and too much focused on science that never gets used in real life. most engineers graduates are mostly useless in the field.

pls enable offline

I don't think he is that dude who wrote the book Genetic Algorithm

#1 Inability to ask good question #2 Inability to lable patterns in data #3 Inability to model conceptually #4 Inability to decompose #5 Inability to experiment #6 Inability to visualizing #7 Inability to communicating

the one who dislike is the one who feels it...

... I don't think they are missing. All of those are being taught.

@drunkdonutboy

6 жыл бұрын

Winston Windsor lol not true

7 things engineers are missing --- or engineering students are missing?

Ngl alot of this to me feels like a failure of American Education because as a engineering student in the UK I don't notice this to much in myself and my peers

You have no data! Your conclusions at the moment is that 3 students struggled completing a senior design projects because of "practical classes were removed from curriculums." For starters, you defined the wrong problem. In my opinion it is perfectly acceptable for students to struggle through a practical classroom exercise, which is what senior design is for. Now if those struggles carried out into the workplace for year to come, yes that is a problem. You have not proved that at all. Than, you went ahead and measured one data point. You monitored 3 students over a 10 week interval and made a grand assumption about the 21st century engineers. How do we know they struggled as a result of the education system? There are a million reasons why 3 students would struggle in a classroom exercise.Give me the facts! So you didn't really measure or analyze, but came up with conclusions. Furthermore, these conclusions are not right. At the university I attended we have 3 design coursed, co-ops/internships, lab classes, and theory classes. Your hypothesis that practical classes were removed from the curriculums is nonsense. If my university is an outlier prove it! To your credit, students and entry engineers need coaching and get help along the way. Even Da Vinci was an apprectice for years, so don't give the audience bs philosophy. I have met plenty of engineers of all ages and they are all very talented. They must have figured it out along the way, and I am sure those 3 students will as well. If you want to suggest the positive affects of teaching practical courses (which is what you did) and promote six sigma training, then by all means. But for god sake don't bash my people. Automotive fuel economy is better than ever from advanced improvement in physical metallurgy, the solar power market is so competitive that engineers don't sleep for weeks at a time, Boeing just released a new commercial plane that does tricks at an air show. Don't even get me started on 3D printing. So, no engineering is alive and well in the world and students coming out of US universities are very well apart of the equation. All of my friends have jobs, the 12 of them, and they are doing awesome things. 12>3

@navneet214

8 жыл бұрын

My friend , look in general , while your 12 friends may have been placed unemployment in engineering is at a high. What he means is that colleges do not produce "work ready" engineers , which is true . He means to bridge the gap between engineering graduate and engineer.

The point is get back to the basics.

of course they fail if you don't teach them first

Саня , скинь домашку

@user-bo4sx8jx7y

Жыл бұрын

establish a management consulting and training firm and transform engineering training

Володя Кучевасов гей

@user-kg7zp9bi6p

2 ай бұрын

Ahahahahaahaha. Thanks for the like)