The way I see it, altered states can bring the constant awareness we already have to conscious awareness. When you strip away the higher cognitive functions, you get to peek under the hood of your mind. By themselves, these states aren't terribly valuable and can be misleading. But I think what Dietrich is missing is that there is value in analyzing these states later from a fully cogent perspective, even if only to get a glimpse of just how amazing the daily functioning of our brain really is.

through much practice and determination... I have finally attained lower states of conciousness

hyper-ego no fluff here just a rigid, angry materialist afraid of his own heart, but according to him the heart has no meaning pity

The knee jerk reflex is monosynaptic, and it does not reach the brainstem, from the patellar tendon, the sensory nerve goes to spinal cord level Lumbar segment 2-4, then it synapses w the sensory horn of the spinal cord then the 2nd neuron sends the signal back to the quadriceps signaling contraction. I thought he was a neuroscientist, he should know his much, makes u wonder about the validity of his other statements...

And, in fact, his argument, that alternative state of consciousness = lower state of consciousness, perhaps only supports the mystical argument of one-ness with the universe, when taken in a sense that the only obstacle to a perception of oneness if a piece of meat in your brain of the here and now - something that will cease to work when your body expires.

I think it's unfair to be this certain about the dismissal of altered states. Consciousness is a complicated issue and it would be bold to say that we understand enough of it to know which states are valuable. There is a certain population within the scientific community with a biological materialist mindset, however, even in such cases, a lack of humility will always be a detriment to exploration. Furthermore, if there was no biological or evolutionary purpose for altered states, why would we develop a brain that is so easily affected by food, water, sleep, etc? Also, if we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, of course the state of consciousness that promotes survival and procreation of the species would be the most dominant. But "Dominant" and "Exclusively Valuable" are not the same thing. Additionally, altered states of consciousness are very widely documented as inspirations for mathematics and science (as well as art). Einstein frequently used altered states he called "Thought experiments" & James Watson (the co-discover of the double helix structure of DNA) reportedly got the idea from a dream.

Thank you for the talk, very interesting. But I don't agree with you about altered states of consciousness being "lower" states of consciousness, they are just as described, they are "altered". They are also highly adaptive, being to egocentric is not evolutionary stable, the altered states of consciousness tend to dissolute this ego, bonding with others is what made us "human" and so specific with the social human brain. They have been practiced since ever in humanity. Without the altered states of consciousness, I think we could have not become what we are. Think about the world now, loosing these bonds, being individualistic have opened the door to mental illnesses like depression or toxicomania... the altered states of consciousness make a reboot in the neural system which in turn shows different pattern of how to deal with the world and with the hurts. Lastly, if you don't have the pre-frontal cortex, would you be able to enter in an altered state of consciousness? I think because we have the pre-frontal cortex, we can also enter such states. They are in no case "lower", because they will inform you different things that a "normal" state of consciousness will not be able to do. But I understand your reasoning that "shutting down" some cognitive functions are conterintuitive and conter-evolutionary, but the interesting thing is that other neuronal paths will fire, will be created in such states, and we cannot just dissmiss their value in ecological and evolutionary aspect because the sacro-saint pre-frontal cortex is doing things that we don't understand now... so, no, I really don't agree with you in that point, but it was interesting to think about it and to give my arguments (if you'll ever read this post :-)), thank you.

you are only imagining a contradiction because you think shutting down a brain part that is usually called "higher" must somehow remove altruism. but many animals have altruism.

just because we are reduced from what makes us human doesnt mean that the brain is a distressed brain dropping off functions. while we may lose our computational capacity, our ability to see the interconnectedness of things increases.

This talk is full of unproven assumptions about the nature of mind, consciousness and reality. For a neuro-scientist to claim that the whole of mind exists within the brain seems patently disingenuous to me as they should be well aware there is insufficient evidence to substantiate such a theory, let alone claim it as fact.

okay. But, how to go into the Transient Hypofrontality phase is a question, I have not been able to answer.

An amusing talk but his editorializing flies in the face of more recent work on transient hypofrontality and flow, including his own article not a year later in the 12/18/2012 issue of Scientific American where he discusses how important hypofrontality is to creativity, surely one of the greatest achievements of human brain evolution [sic]?

@AdamSmithWantSmoosh but see, you say it yourself, it is kind of a "don't do psychedelic drugs" message. Personally, I wasn't convinced, simply because I don't see why the scientific process of losing "sense of self" would mean that spiritual experience is a lie. On the contrary, it could be interpreted as showing that the only obstacle to "oneness" is an ability present under a current physical/biological form.. it depends how one looks at it.

What a mediocre talk, this guy seems to understand very little about consciousness considering that it's far more mysterious than he would have you think. He has used material reductionism to justify this ignorant theory of those states of consciousness without using any arguments, he has simply defined the way things are based on a fallacious philosophy and articulated a derogatory means of referring to the underlying neurological mechanisms. There is far more evidence that the brain is best modeled as a transceiver of consciousness, like a tv set, than there is that the brain generates consciousness. The transceiver theory can actually account for the hard problem of consciousness, unlike the naive realism marketed as 'materialism' that mistakes the menu for the meal, the mental models for the reality. You can't make any value judgments about mind using models that can not account for mind, yet this guy has the arrogance to do this and be quite cynical about it. Sounds like he's barely looked at a book about psychedelics written by someone who understands their profundity, like Dr Stanislav Grof MD PhD - which is profoundly ignorant when you consider how many there are out there. Until you can understand quantum mechanics, you will never understand consciousness. This guy makes the novice mistake of using classical mechanics to explain consciousness using the old paradigm that is now completely obsolete given the scientific data. Indeed if the brain is a transceiver of consciousness psychedelic states are higher states - as less brain activity means more information and higher dimensional realms of experience without the narrow tuning of the brain to interfere. Humans receive a very narrow band of the total frequencies from the environment, match them with pre-established mental constructs, and call that reality. The reality the body evolved to tune in in order to keep it alive in space-time, it has nothing to do with the true nature of things, which is why you cannot understand consciousness without perturbing it the way you smash atoms together in order to understand more about their true nature. Psychedelic states often feel more real than normal waking consciousness, which puts them higher on the veridical scale than ordinary states of consciousness. You cannot reason around this using empiricism, it's just what studies have shown. This guy clearly needs to have an injection of DMT, there's no way he's coming back from that without rubbishing most of what he suggests about consciousness in this talk.

"If you're a mountain climber and really high.... altitude wise!" Nice save.

What is talking of "Transient Hypofrontality", though not very clear, probably he is equating it with "realization" or "Nirvana" - And that is not convincing. As the great people who reached at that stage - shows some other exemplary qualities. Which he is not talking or capturing in his speech.

@AdamSmithWantSmoosh As to my rant about AUB and co. monopolizing TEDxBeirut, it wasn't about this particular discussion, but about the whole attendance. Just wish I heard an idea from someone who lives in a different city or a rural area and attends the more Arabic-language universities. We can't say they don't also have ideas, when we never even include them...

Of course everything has causation just like buddha taught with dependent origination thousands of years ago. There is something missing however in this guy's understanding of the complete scientific and conceptual picture of the causes thus far. What if quantum entanglement meant that the neurons in our brain were actually shared with other particles outside our brain. With our limited knowledge of quantum entanglement no one can argue against this at least for now.

and lucid dreaming (dreaming controlled by frontal, executive functioning) fits into this paradigm...where?

Hmm. Enjoyed the talk. Begs the question why people who dip into these 'lower' states of consciousness seem to have such sober outlooks on life. Generally tend to be more calm and altruistic?

Would have been great if he compressed it to 7 minutes or so.

The essence of love

I didn't mean anything about altruism and "higher' states. I am just saying that people with altered states of consciousness, whether "higher" or"lower" do have a measurable affect on the people who take then, when they are sober. So I simply ask, lets not ignore the long term effects on these individuals, rather than reduce the argument to rhetoric like reducing altered states to feeling one with ashtrays.

This just shows a perspective on the topic of consciousness. While interesting to listen to, his claims have nothing to stand on but a discontentment for a certain "segment of people". He's just wrapping simple concepts about the mind up in another bullshit ideology to make money, but what he's missing is what we don't know and what nobody has empirically defined-fucking consciousness!

@paulatreides6779

6 ай бұрын

Agree!

@AdamSmithWantSmoosh I agree with you on that. However, his tone does make it sound like he is dismissing the potential value of an alternate state of consciousness, based on the mind being in a lower state of normal functioning. Is all I'm saying. It stank of conservatism to me.

This guy has obviously never experienced Dmt before.

amazing

I didn't understand everything! but i agree with you Arne ;)

dude obviously hasn't smoked DMT before

@NaderR

6 жыл бұрын

ayahuasca

Who changed the intro KalkuLayTor? which intro exactly. TEDxBeirut did not change anything...

yes it seems the video was mostly oriented towards educating people about how the states are still within the realm of ordinary nature, and the need for major overhauls in science or physics has not been indicated. this is politically significant, though it could have been done so much better. i also agree it would be nice to see how this can all be used for the benefit of people. i would have liked to see that too, "more fireworks" i say!

Hi Patricia. Thanks for the reply. (I missed out the 'x' from TEDx). I actually welcome Prof. Dietrich's practised presentation of pseudo-philosophic postulations. ? Because I've come to the conclusion that the kind of person who'd applaud their own presence perceiving such a piss poor polemic are of a similar psychology to the many that should give serious psychedelic exploration a wide birth. It's not for the faint of heart; or mind. Infants should not be encouraged to participate. Bravo!

@Kokkette what is he saying then? good to know about the others. Is there someone from the Arabic university? from the Lebanese University? Some of the talks were really interesting... others were so-so, some completely useless. but from the ones released up till now, most only gave time to talk for the same crowd you will see if you hang out in the Hamra/Achrafieh middle class circles. I just wish the scope was a bit broader than the usual mini-part of society.

I once took university classes I didn't need to listen to him speak.

i want him to narrate my Life

at this point, I felt that the whole of TEDxBeirut was a little propaganda machine of AUB: mainly AUB teachers, AUB students, or simple Hamra people. Where is the rest of Lebanon? why was promotion of the event centered only or on this small part of Lebanese society? This guy in particular, seems to be saying what AUB wants him to say : "kids, don't take psychedelic drugs".

@AdamSmithWantSmoosh actually his argument is nothing so new. He depicts biologically what happens to your brain when it is induced with a psychedelic substance. The only breakthrough I see is with replacing the word "higher" in higher state of consciousness, which is based on assumed spiritual experience, with the word "lower [state of consciousness]", which is based on the bio-chemical state of the brain then. I never disputed his definition.

:) Love it!! Full of information coupled with jokes. Respect!

impressive talk.....great speaker but the subtitles are non sense !

This didn't age well. Look at the brain connectivity on fMRI of someone on mushrooms. Normal connectivity is somewhat active. Mushroom connectivity is highly highly active, far more than ordinary consciousness... Inter-regional parts of the brain are connecting far more, whether "high" or "low" it is in fact more connected to itself than ever.

i could of explained that idea in 5

Great to hear some counter-points to the propaganda about altered states of consciousness.

I would actually consider them higher states of mind that drugs like cannabis, shrooms and lsd take you on. lower states of conscioussness would be with the use of alcohol, cocaine, heroin..

Not impressed.

It's actually good enough for Lebanese universities caliber, he might be a first step for some to get out of the mystic bubble, who would then go on to encounter more insightful research that would rebut some of what he said. Additional note: I would have loved if he had used the audience's actual religions: "islam, christianity and druzes" as example of mysticism, instead of buddhists, so attendees wouldn't think: "Ohhh, those silly buddhists! LOL", instead of reflecting on their own knowledge gaps. But this might also be a critic of the pressure made by AUB that presented him with the platform.

Altered traits

The man doth protest too much, methinks.

agreed :)

This guy fails to acknowledge that under our state of consciousness we are the only species that knowingly are showing the seeds of our own demise. How special are we really?

Pseudoscience @ TED - who'd of thunk it?

well... this wasn't too uplifting.

That's not Pseudoscience Hippy Shakes.

This is a mechanistic, incomplete and poor point of view.

16:01 Haha its like 90% chicks.