please don't teach this for a living ugh.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Anyone care to educate this guy? I'll pin the comment.

@oneshot700

3 жыл бұрын

@@joepie221 Just drop the first few minutes next time super scholar. Thanks

@oneshot700

3 жыл бұрын

@@joepie221 Meaning if I want to take a nap. No doubt you have good info in there just started out weird is all. If you are insulted then I'm sorry.

@oddjobbob8742

3 жыл бұрын

oneshot had one too many shots. whoa dude, shut up already. Easy solution for you... don’t watch anymore. Thank you Joe for sharing your genius and your expertise.

@Jake-zc3fk

3 жыл бұрын

I personally love Joe's videos!!

Joe I’m one of those guys that will forget everything you tell me unless I know “why”. Your explanations and theory at the “board” are very helpful to me..

Hello Joe, I have run my own shop for 20 plus years. I'm writing to tell you how much I admire the care you put into your videos, and the clarity with which you present your ideas and concepts. There are many people out there who will benefit from your efforts. Keep it up! Thanks.

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

I really hope so. Thanks.

@whatcher8151

2 жыл бұрын

He got a haircut and shaved too.

I really don't understand the square hole thing, but everything else was blowing my mind. The quick retract of the drill by using the carriage and tail stock was exceptional. Love it

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Hi Joe, again a great lesson. And allow me this comment just because you have mentioned that you don't want this video to be boring: actually, beyond the importance of seeing the real details, I very much appreciate to see that some things simply take their time and that therefore I don't need to feel like I'm veeery sloooow when doing similar stuff. In fact, most of the time youtube folks show this kind of "boring" footage in quick motion only and basically reduce everything to a nice, shiny chipmaking show. Instead, not only you give us an idea on how long such a job can / must take (even when done by a seasoned Pro) but you also make very good use of the "boring" parts and give us extremely precious "bonus" advice while doing so. Thanks again for this and ... congrats for the 100K! Dan

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dan.

Hey Joe, wanna' thank ya' for taking the time to post this up. For the six guys who give this video a 'thumbs down'... I'm guessing one or two may have been by accident; the rest were probably simply to keep machining videos from showing up in their KZread feed Because, the value of the content here is top notch. When you figure that shop time - any shop with trained personnel and decent equipment, anywhere in the US in 2020 - is damn hard to come by at $100/ hr, and that's based on the average guy in the average shop... not the highly experienced guy in the shop who can do the troubleshooting and tricky stuff... I've sat through a lot of lessons in the years that put a hell of a lot less value into a whole lot more time

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. These do take some effort to deliver.

That was one of the most useful engineering videos I have see. Thanks for taking the time to do this. A lot of people are benefiting from your efforts.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Right on Joe as always! Having worked in the automotive industry for many years, drills got the metal out, boring bars positioned the hole, and reamers gave you diameter and finish. Many people always wanted to skip a pass or two, with little success. When holes had to be deep, straight, and with a finish, gun drills were used, like on automatic transmission valve bodies. Gundrill geometry is very unique and contains parts of the three tools above, in one tool, but is not for the average machine shop. Gundrills require a hardened drill bushing to start the hole, high pressure coolant (~1000psi) to move the foil-like (

Joe, this had me glued to the chair. 45 minutes went by like it was 10 or less. I was just recently (like last night) wondering about "rifle drills" and such to get a good straight hole. Thanks!!

Good content. I worked PT as a Tool & Die machinist (apprentice) while studying engineering. Appreciative of the patience & knowledge my mentors shared with me. With 40 years of Mfg / Construction experience behind me, it's great to see other pass-along great detailed work instructions such as this KZread video. Well done sir !!

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I think its important to pass along good advice.

This is the kind of experience that comes from years of dealing with daily issues and being successful.I really like the way you explain yourself😁

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I used to write technical manuals so I try to be aware of every important detail.

This isn't just solid gold. This is solid platinum knowledge. For such a simple thing you've provided us with so many hints and things to think about. A total winner of a video. Thanks so much for sharing your years of experience both in this and all your other videos. It really helps us hobbyists.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I've wanted to do this video for a long time. Glad you liked it.

Wanted to add that my father (now 88) taught me that carriage bump technique when I was 10 years old, and I've used it all my life. What's new to me is the virtual creation of a precision, concentric guide bushing with the center drill, drill, bore, ream sequence you detailed here... fantastic! BTW, I used Anchor Lube years ago... a bottle was given to me by a sales guy for lubing rubber that was to be die-cut. It worked great for that, but I never knew it could be used as a cutting fluid...gotta go find some!

I really like people, who know what they're doing. I'm a precision mechanic myself. Best job in the world. Gives me smiles every day! Watching good machining videos never gets boring. Joe I would have watched you finish that hole in real time n all. Caus I get it! Thanks!

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment.

A masterclass in efficiency, economy and patience. And how much easier it is with well maintained and understood machinery.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

This works very well, just keep the oil under the tailstock and it glides like air.

Thank you for this. I have had so many failures trying this. I especially appreciate the 'chalk talk'. I like knowing why things happen as well as how to fix it.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Me too. It helps the practical really sink in for me.

It’s funny how expectations change over time. When the twist drill was invented in the latter 1800’s, the twist drill was considered to be the only drill that would drill a round, straight hole.

Another great video from Joe Pie... Good info and well presented. Very useful. Thanks.

Great Video! As far as drilling tools are concerned you will get better tolerances from a drill with a less aggressive helical angle. The reason for this has to do with the center of the drill and the amount of material left in it to give rigidity. More twist= Less rigidity. there will always have to be a balance between rigidity and chip evacuation. Without TSC in a machine you will never be able to avoid that dilemma. Haas and Mitsubishi have great videos regarding this exact principle, plus the add benefits of Drill Coatings, and the roles that they play in drill selection for any given material to help with tolerances and chip evacuation. Also worth noting: tool tolerances are horrible (relatively speaking) if you can cut parts, you can cut tools. if you want to change the relief angle or distance on a drill, a tool cutter or tool grinder will give you so much more bang for your buck in the shop. DIY works every time for the trained professional.

Stopped here at the end of the white board lesson. That all makes perfect sense, and unless someone who knows the tricks shares them with you, you will continue to struggle. Joe is a machine shop genius. Anyone who says different is...well...less than genius. Now out to the shop floor to make it happen. Great stuff Joe. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would pay to work with you for a couple weeks or more. Worth it.

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.

When I was in school I worked weekends and summers for a Master Tool & Die maker (friend of my father), and this was in the Mid-Late '70's. SO Much of what you cover reminds of "knowledge" I'd forgotten! Thanks for putting in the time and effort to share all the things that aren't in "The Machiney's Handbook" or anywhere else! I put in a good amount of hours on a Bridgeport, a Hardinge, and a big gap bed Graziano. Back then CNC was in it's infancy, so I never learned any basic programming, But I still get people who found out from 'This or That guy" that I have a tooled shop in my Garage--(although I've never "worked" as a machinist)...And it's nice to be able to find not only things I've forgotten, but SO much more! Very Generous of you to share--Huge Thanks!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the comment. thank you. I'm glad to be able to do this.

You are an excellent teacher. This lesson is among your best. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us.

@joepie221

Жыл бұрын

You're very welcome!

Will definitely use the carriage stop method in the future. I have always hated the dialing in and out when drilling deeper holes. Another great shop tip and video!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

You will like it. SOOOOO much faster.

Joe, this is one of the most useful segments you’ve done yet! I ate it up. Your years of experience show in the best of ways. Godspeed.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I read your bio. God bless you for your strength and resolve. Stay well and enjoy every day.

@joe Pie You are actually a very good teacher. You make things clear and concise and easy to understand. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

Very helpful! Much food for thought. I am a beginner, but I have sort of used some of these ideas to some extent, but your video ties the different ideas together in a more coherent way. Thank you!😃

Great video, lesson, and tips Joe, thank you!

Thank you for sharing your knowledge, it is much appreciated

I wish i had known this 40 years ago!!!!!! But never too late!!! thanks so much!!!!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching.

I know this is an old video but I'm JUST getting into lathe work and this video REALLY cleared up what can go wrong if I only use a drill bit (What I thought was the process) and how to drill all the way through, correctly, and keep it center. Thanks Joe, your "Class room" style videos really help me.

Thanks again Joe. Once again I learned something that I didn't even know that I didn't know! 👍😁

Just did this for a 3.8" deep 1/8" diameter hole and it worked flawlessly. Thanks Joe.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the trust.

Joe, I learned a lot from this video, and the demo on how to bump the carriage was worth the price of admission, thank you!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thanks for the demonstration. Great advice. Never thought that the starting hole using a boring tool would hinder bit wandering. I'm a big fan of using the center drill due to the short shank and the rigidity it benefits from.

Can’t remember the project just a few months ago but had a through hole come out way off center. Got it the second time by slowing down and changing drills but this would have ensured it. Great tip I’ll start using!

Great video Joe, I learned alot. Thanks

Great lesson Joe ! From a s/retired design engineer and former toolmaker. It just came to me that another great way to explain the deep hole drifting (to those who may not easily grasp) is how the oil and gas industry drill holes miles deep and at all sorts of angles into the ground and ocen beds(maybe?) Enjoy all of your tips and all the youtubers crafts people.

I went +.006 over at the top of the hole and +.002 at the bottom just this week I expected +.002 top and +.000 at the bottom. I didn't account concentricity of the drill grind or leave room for finish boring. Thanks Joe.

After failing twice using conventional methods , tried this out and it worked a treat , thanks for sharing Joe !

Thank you for a very informational video. So much useful info here

Super stuff, Joe! I wish I'd seen this 2 years ago! Better late than never! Been doing the tailstock gem since I was a kid, but the beginning tutorial was the dope! Thanks for your time and sharing! You've got an old dog learning new tricks! 👍😎✌️

Always good, thanks. It is always good to hear and see someone from home. I lived in Austin 30 years then moved just outside to Pflugerville for about 20 years and how near Tulsa Ok.

Great instructional video Joe. Thanks for sharing.

@joepie221

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Absolutely superb. Thanks for taking the time to make this outstanding video. You never cease to amaze!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

Great tips Joe. Thanks

Joe I have been using your hole techniques now since this video came out, this stuff works great. No more wandering weeble worble lost target. I've changed my drill press operations too based on this lesson. Thanks from North Carolina. PS...I'm watching it again to see what I missed.

@oddjobbob8742

3 жыл бұрын

Rogue makes a great point. Joe Pi’s YT’s are so densely packed with content you don’t know what you missed until you watch a second or third time.

Thanks for another great informative class Joe. It's greatly appreciated. The knowledge you share with us is priceless.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

I'd rather share it, than be buried with it. Thanks for watching.

An excellent tutorial, you've taught me the importance of he bored pilot step - my sincere thanks.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

I almost can't wait till I get my first lathe to see how much I have learned from you, I definitely don't have as much nervousness about it as I had when I started watching machine shop videos on youtube. I think you have the best channel for learning, Thank you so much Joe. 3 days late but I hope you had a Happy Birthday.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Actual date is the 19th. Thanks for the wish.

So many subtle techniques were shared. Thanks for taking the time to share.

@joepie221

6 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Wonderful video Joe, thanks so much for what you do!

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoy it!

The information you give away for free is appreciated! Thanks Joe!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Pass it on.

Priceless insights as always Joe, thank you for the knowledge sir..

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for stopping by Del. Stay well.

Great advice on drilling deep and straight. I was thinking of boring out a muzzle loading barrel to install a rifled insert (someone gave me the rifle with a pitted barrel) but was concerned about some of the problems that would be encountered. This demo was very enlightening. I'm re-thinking it now. Thanks!

Just did this procedure 1/8" hole, 4" deep in P20 all from one end because I wanted to have the confidence in the process when I can't do from both ends in the future. I had to skip the boring bar step because I didn't have one that small. When I got done I flipped it and chamfered the exit. Hole was dead on. Thanks.

The information of "carriage bumping" is pure genius! I drill a lot of holes on the lathe, this will save me a TON of time! Much Appreciated!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad to help!

Congratulations, you've created the barrel for a 574-gauge short barreled shotgun.

Dear Joe, A pleasure to watch you at work. Just brilliant. God Bless.

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

Thanks for taking the time to film this Joe, was great to watch and a fantastic technique to have

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

I have been looking for a detailed video on deep drilling for a very long time. Thank you so much.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Excellent instruction, Sir. Always a pleasure to learn from you.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Glad to help.

Thankyou Joe. Learned something from you again. Always great videos with good camera work. Mal

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Mal. I'm evolving. Got a new Hero 7 witha lot of good features I plan to begin using. It should show.

Great subject for a video. Couldn't be more relevant to whats currently on my mind as I make shop furniture and safety equipment. As I have finally obtained a lathe and a small CNC mill to start learning with. Once again thanks for Sharing your knowledge and experience with us.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad to do it. Thanks for being a subscriber. I wish everyone that commented was.

Probably the best machining advice I've ever seen! Thanks Joe!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for that. It works.

Popped up on watch list, glad it did. The carriage stop, I need to use that more often.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

This works well, just keep the ways oiled.

impressive result and nice theory lesson.. enjoyed it, thanks for sharing. 👍

@joepie221

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thank you Joe! It took me a paying attention to the way you allowed the tailstock to kick out to avoid the drill grabbing. I'd love to see how to do this on the mill. Have a great weekend!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

basically the same, just plunge an end mill instead of boring it, and feed down by advancing the quill nut a little at a time.

This is by far the best I've seen on this topic. Thanks for sharing your life-long experience with us. I am trying to drill 8.5" 3/4" C360 brass round bar for an oil manifold. I will see if I can do it with the tips you have offered here.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

This should certainly help. Good luck.

I have yet to buy my first hobby lathe for my newly developing interest in metal working. Approaching retirement from the electrical industry, you and other KZread creators in this field have made it interesting and educational, but more importantly understandable for the newcomers. Thanks for the great content. Keep up the amazing work for us still at the start line. Cheers Pete' from New Zealand.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

I hope my material give you something to remember and improve on. Good luck.

What perfect timing that I found your channel. I'm drilling a number 38 sized hole in a 2.5 inch long .276 stock. Awesome stuff

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Perfect!

Thanks 👍 I learned something about precision drilling holes.

Awesome video today and it answers some questions I have had. Questions like, "how did I screw that up?" Love your channel.

Joe, as always I learned something from your video, Thanks for sharing your Knowledge.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thank you for your time and effort. I'm here to learn machining from a true Master. I don't care if you call that guy a morphodite, troglodyte, hermaphrodite, transvestite, or some other word I can't spel. Joe you communicate wonderfully, I learn a lot from you. Thank you

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the comment.

@oddjobbob8742

3 жыл бұрын

Amen, yea, verily!

Talk about fortuitous. Normally I don't drill long holes down the axis of parts, but I had to do it today so I could repair my tractor rather than wait for an ordered part. I made two 1/2" dia, 3" long holes that met in the center ... I didn't try gauge pins, but I could barely detect a little ridge where they met. Also I saved a lot of time with the "move the whole tailstock" idea. Thanks again.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching. Its a good technique to remember.

Been machining stuff for near 60 years and I learned a couple of things here. I watched because I'm about to build a 1:10 replica of the Constitutions 24 pound guns. Thanks Joe

@joepie221

Ай бұрын

You might enjoy this. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ipujzpSlk7GZZ7A.html

Thirty years ago I had to drill holes 3/8" diameter 24" deep in 2024 aluminum that I was making into aerodynamic probes for the wind tunnel I was working in. I first made a plate wider than the lathe cross slide and notched it to straddle the cross slide then tapped it every half inch and made a steel dovetail block to fit my BXA Aloris tool block with an adjustment screw to fine adjust the height. I cranked the spindle out on the tailstock and with the cross slide ran the hole plate up against the side of the shaft to get it parallel. O aligned the stock on the hole plate with pins and clamps and used an edge finder to center the stock then center drilled and drilled with a stub drill, a standard length drill then a taper length drill which got me in about 6". Then I used a 24" long 3/8" drill that was made for drilling wood lamps that I had silver soldered a 6" extension on.I would drill a quarter inch deep and back out, I only had the one drill and didn't want to risk it breaking it. I didn't use the power feed I just cranked the longitudinal feedback and forth till I was at the proper depth to meet the cross hole that was predrilled. It worked for the two probes I had to make and then I had to make smaller probes that only had a 6" deep hole but it was 1/8" in 17-4 H900 and I broke one drill out of 5 try's, I needed 4 probes.Using the plate on the lathe as a holder for the stock worked great like a horizontal boring mill would have but I didn't have easy access to one so the lathe was great.

I got a lot from that thankyou. good to see the tailstock actions in detail.

this is exactly what I was looking for.... I'll be doing it on a CNC mill though, so less tedious manual in and out... but he process and tooling is right on. Thanks for posting.

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

Start tight, end right.

Thanks for the video Joe.

Excelent as always. Thanks Joe.

Thanks Joe, for sharing your knowledge. Western Australia.

@joepie221

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

Another great video Joe, keep it up.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, will do!

G'day Joe, as always a rippa vid. thanks. The information you share is great and muchly appreciated. I think the reason your vids are so well-liked is that you don't waffle on AND manage to explain all the factors relating to the job at hand. Keep it up. Appreciate the Aussie flag on your whiteboard :)

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Given to me by an Aussie.

Good info. as always ,thank you for showing how.

As always, a first class presentation, many thanks Joe.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Thanks Joe - I picked up several good tips! I can't think of a better way than your videos to disseminate the considerable experience you've accumulated to the rest of the world (literally). Thanks to your videos as well as others on KZread, I have been able to learn machining well enough to hit the numbers needed to implement creations and repairs with good success :-)

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thats the whole idea behind this channel. Thank you for the comment.. I'm glad my material helps.

Thank you so much Joe. I always used to blame my knackered 1950's lathe for not being able to drill straight holes. Your very clear presentation explains exactly where I have been going wrong.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Best of luck moving forward.

Sperry Sun developed a system called Slick Drill for drilling oil wells taking out the spiral typically seen in drilling. They designed a drill bit with a gauge reamer directly above the cutting structure. The reamer needed to be 1.5 times longer than the diameter of the bit. An 8 3/4" bit with the reamer built on was 16" long. Worked extremely well.

Thank you for another informative Video. I knew there must be a better way and you just showed me!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thanks Joe. I've a 'back yard' business making a product involving a part with a 5" deep 9mm hole which has to be dead nuts. So much of this is going to save so much frustration & alcohol abuse...

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Save the alcohol abuse for the weekends.

Thanks for this great tutorial. I look forward to trying it out myself.

@joepie221

Жыл бұрын

Please do!

Thanks for doing this video. I'm an amateur home shop machinist and I've always had this problem of the drill fucking off a few inches down the bore. Now I know how to fix it if that bore is critical. Usually when I'm drilling holes in a cylindrical part it's just to make a bushing, so I just drill as deep as I need then part it, then re-center drill, then drill, then part, and so on. It would be nice to be able to just drill it all the way through, or to make hollow shafting that runs true end to end, OD and ID.

lol i use a mini lathe and if i ever need something to be really straight, i just get out my toolpost grinder and my diamond bits. it'll go straight eventually... excellent video! so scientific, and a great resource for learning about what's actually going on behind the curtain.

Great video! I'm new to the channel and new to the metal lathe. Just bought a little SC4 from Little Machine Shop. Love the little lathe. I've been a wood turner for 15 years but man this metal lathe stuff has been a great challenge. Thanks for the great videos. Keep up the great work.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for checking in. I hope my material helps.

this is a great video! the theory was epecially useful and some good tips for drilling on the lathe. I would like to see your approach for the same process on a drilling machine? Lots to learn here and I have subscribed as videos of this quality are rare!

@joepie221

Жыл бұрын

Thanks and welcome aboard.

Loved it. Nor more useless cranking of the tail stock . Thank you.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

keep it oiled and the day goes well.

NIce! Thankfully your machined holes are rounder than the ones you draw!

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

No kidding.

Thanks, Joe. Always a few gems in each clip. I already (probably as a teenager) came up with using the carriage as a depth reference, but your later tip on a great way of quickly re-establishing the drilling depth after changing to a longer drill, by delaying locking the tailstock to the bed, I do now recall (thanks to you!) I used to do when I had smaller lathes, but I need to try on the big machines I now generally run. It's not enough to come up with these things intuitively, a real teacher will take careful note of such tricks in order to remember AND refine them, and even more importantly, to pass them on. "Paying it forward" is what got us to the top of the food chain, and you are a master of the art! Thanks again. You really are a treasure to this community of interest, and your generosity is truly admirable. PS: On my biggest lathe, your reminder might just give me the impetus I need to add air injection to make the tailstock move more easily. It's not huge, as 5MT tailstocks go, and does not have a gearbox, but it's a potential twisting strain on the back if I was to do a really deep hole. For instance, I have a 65mm diameter spade drill I made the 5MT holder and shank for which is 700mm long. Last time I used it, it took several hours to take to full depth! (I don't have high pressure coolant, just high volume flood, and of course there is no pilot hole, so I was clearing it every few mm). I don't have rapid on the carriage, either, otherwise it would be a no-brainer to use IT to push the tailstock back each time, once the depth started to amount to something. I would lash the tailstock to the carriage with cord, and if I did this, I could use a magnet under the front shear of the bed as an automatic moving depth indicator for stopping the forward motion of the carriage, similar to your original tip, to avoid headbutting the spade bit into the hole and risking making an indent to propagate chatter, which of course is the sworn enemy of spade drills. I use Allied bits, and I stick with HSS for durability and because they tolerate things like no high pressure coolant and (intermittent) chatter much better than carbide, and I highly recommend them for deep holes in these larger sizes.

@captcarlos

4 жыл бұрын

Hey, Gottenhimfella, If you are interested in 'Deep Hole and Deeeeeep Trapanning' have a look at "David Wilks" you tube channel. That will blow your mind. Just a suggestion.

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate your comment. Thanks for taking the time.

Got some Anchorlube based on your recommendation. Cut, drilled, tapped, etc 304 and it seems like a great lubricant so far. A bit sticky to cleanup but small price to pay for keeping things nice and cool. Thanks Joe.