I'm gonna have to vouch for the fiocchi. Put one through my foot the other day, exit was significantly larger than the entry. Took out a bunch of bone too. 10/10 recommended

@rebel9channel

8 ай бұрын

Lmao

@Soli_Deo_Gloria_.

8 ай бұрын

Pictures or it never happened...

@IanBartlett777

8 ай бұрын

@@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. drop the @ lol

Thanks for another fine round of testing. Looking forward to the next.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

You bet

The Federal Train & Protect rounds do not expand. I have bought one box of 9mm 115 grain, one box of 9mm 124 grain, one box of .40 S&W 180 grain and one box of .45 230 grain. Shot all 50 out of each box and not one round out of the 200 expanded, not one. And I used bare gel. I then proceeded to look them up on KZread and everyone that tested them has had the same issue, no expansion.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Good range report. Always nice to get confirmation of my results.

@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929

Жыл бұрын

great more hollow points that I have that dont do what hollow points are supposed to. Ive also got some IMI 9mm hollow points and those supposedly dont expand either.

@jmurphy68463

Жыл бұрын

@@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929 I just used the rest that I had as practice rounds with FMJs.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

@@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929 exactly. This is why channels like mine exist. Consumers need to know what they're buying. But one test is not scientifically significant. I'm just adding to the body of knowledge that's out there. Gun Sam does these tests too. Shootingthebull410 used to (I think he's retired, more or less) and Paul Harrell does his own style of testing. There are others as well. Together we are changing the industry. But the best rounds, Gold Dots and Federal HST right now, are very very expensive. Hornady Critical Defense are generally good, and a bit cheaper than those two. I should test the Hornady's next in 9mm... So far everything I've tested has been cheaper than Critical Defense.

@westcoastwarriorsarchive7929

Жыл бұрын

@@GeographyCzar I figured companies like federal and IWI knew what they were doing but I guess not in this case. If i had the money to I would buy exclusively gold dot or federal HST for defensive ammo but like you said, that suff is super expensive right now.

Another worthwhile and enjoyable comparison, Dave. It does seem that the Federals were taking the day off, or staging a protest, or something along those lines, refusing to cooperate with the chronograph, and also refusing to expand in the gel. The Fiocchis definitely stole the show.

Really good performance for the Fiocchi! I have watched many test of all kinds of ammo. Not going to find much better for the price! Xtreme defender is my favorite but 20 of them cost more than 50 of the Fiocchi.

Great video as always 👍😎 I suspect most people have no idea how much work goes into making those gel blocks to spec and maintaining temperature within scientifically meaningful research ranges.

I carry the fiocchi DD and I’m happy with the way they shoot

Fiocchi 380APHP - 90 9APBHP - 124 Those worked out of a 2.75" and 3.1" Barrel respectively. They expanded in water and pig carcasses. They fragmented in water but not after passing through the hair and hide on wild pig carcasses. Usually that jacket separation occurs when the bullet destabilizes near the end of it's travel.

Finding that Fiocchi load for $24.99 at a local shop. Hard to pass up for a 50 count box. Still prefer an HST, Gold Dot or bonded Golden Saber. The Fiocchi is great for stacking back though

man those fiocchis are flying!

Was finding the Fiocchi 50 count boxes for $24.99 10 months ago (Tail end of the drought). Havent seen a box of them since. Glad that I ended up with several hundred of them. Before they stopped showing up in my local area.

I bought 1 box of Fiocchi 115 FMJ rated at 1200 ft#sec. I could tell they were spicier than all my other range ammo from my 3.2" barrel. Bought a bunch more then of Range Dynamics afterwards on sale. But I only saw their 124 grain JHPs on the shelf for Defense Dynamics. So thanks for validating their 115 grain JHPs as a valid budget defensive load. At least they're worthy enough to validate for consistency at the range without burning too much of my wallet.

I know for a fact that the fiochi load fired from a glock 19 will fully expand in a white tail deer and cleanly kill it. That being said, shot placement is everything.

@asiansrule45

8 ай бұрын

Where did you place it

Thanks Dave, appreciate the testing 👍👍

What good does a slight difference in expansion a jho does? Would you be able to chase after someone with knife after being shop by the cheapest jhp? As long as it fires without a jam/misfire, a bullet is a bullet

For a cheap defensive load the XTP is one of the most consistent performers at a range of velocities from +p+ to borderline 380 energy. That's why I like federal 124 standard pressure HST for all barrel lengths, their 124 ball ammo is identical in regards to energy so you can train with the 124 ball and get the same recoil impulse as the $1.4 shot per dollar HST. Plus you can check function with the cheaper federal punch ammo which is the same loading, other than the lack of nickel cases and a softer core.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

I'm planning to do 124 grain rounds next. I probably have a few 115 grain standard pressure loads left to test, but some of them are exotically priced right now. $40/box of 20? No way.

@rileyneufeld7001

Жыл бұрын

@@GeographyCzar It really is a shame Underwood doesn't have any loadings of the gold dot anymore. Their +P 124 and 147 gold dot was a great loading. A true +p load but not too hot.

@KCBluesJams

Жыл бұрын

@@rileyneufeld7001 they still have 9 mm 147 gold dots +p+ available they had some great sales going on the last few months 😊whenever they have a big sale I stock up 👍

@rileyneufeld7001

Жыл бұрын

@@KCBluesJams Their +p+ loadings seem a bit overkill IMO. But yes I did see they still have the 147 +p+, that loading did really well in tnoutdoors9's testing. HST expansion and penetration with the durability of the bonded gold dot.

@KCBluesJams

Жыл бұрын

@@rileyneufeld7001 I was a little apprehensive about their +p+ loads but they work fine in my Glock g45 and g43x I picked some of their 125 357 sig gold dots too and they are fire 🔥out of a g23 with a conversion barrel 👍

I just bought a box of 380acp 90 grain Fiocchi defense dynamic. They were $32.99 for a box of 50 and they ran fine out of my Bersa thunder. I haven't seen a gel test for 380 but I assume they would be similar.

@RandomxHero45

9 ай бұрын

Look up Shooting the bull. He takes a small TCP 380 size of a Ruger LCP. Those and maybe 2 more ammo makers bullets in 380 did the expansion and go 12 plus inches. So you got some of the best 380 ammo that actually expand and penetrate. Seems the Hornady xtp rounds are best for 380.

Thank you for the information.

@GeographyCzar

6 ай бұрын

You bet!

Fiocchi defense dynamics is my go to self defense ammo. Beautiful expansion highly accurate

I would like to see 124 gr Fiocchi in gel !

You should try the Remington green and white box 115 9mm jhp. Great performance and cheap.

@mot0rhe4d40

Жыл бұрын

Haven't seen that for some years due to Remington's bankruptcy. Might be showing up more now that that is all done with.

Really couldn't care less about jacket separation inside a perp who is trying to harm myself or a family member. The Fiocchi looks good to me!

@mot0rhe4d40

Жыл бұрын

I am of the same mind. A .80 to .90 cal chuck of copper complicating a wound doesn't sound like that much of a negative. Especially at the price I am finding the Fiocchi ammo for

@randycchavez

Жыл бұрын

If it happens early on entry it could lead to fragmenting, which would effect depth & wound cavity size. But since this jacket separated at the end of the bullet travel (least amt of forward momentum left), I don't have a problem with it. Would be nice to see a few more rds though, just to gain higher lvl of confidence in re to if jacket separation does indeed occur earlier, if so is that outlier(?) etc etc... But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised how well these fiocchi performed. Not bad for "budget" JHP...

I very much appreciate the review, as I was curious about the fiocchis as there was a pretty good deal on a website and was curious if they were worth it. Don't look too bad for the price. Just came across your channel, and I like ya. I can also appreciate that you don't mind leaving the mistakes and whatnot in. That said, try and cut the fat as an editor would say. Nobody minds mistakes, hell most people I see commenting prefer a genuine approach. But there's easily 5 minutes of this video that just didn't have to be in. *Most* of the chrono mishaps could've been shaved down to about 15 seconds max, and then get to reading the results. Resetting the gel could also be cut down. And of course there's more to shave. Seeing all the cuts, I know that you or whoever is cutting the videos knows how to edit. I do say this with peace and love and mean to be constructive, so please don't take it as an attack. The KZread audience is a bunch of ADHD morons, me included. If you'd like to grow your channel (and I wish you all the success in doing so. I'm now a new subscriber), you really do have to cut down the dead air.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

100% tracking with you. I've been doing a lot more trimming the fat lately.

The fiocchi is what I carry in my gx4 I have man range days with it talked to a law enforcement FRIND of mine and he claims some departments in smaller towns are using it

I got a few boxes for $17 each was curious about them

The fiocci is actually good stuff. Seen other vids with really good performance

@GeographyCzar

2 ай бұрын

Good to know!

I’ve tried Fiochi 9mm hallow points in my Glock 17 it doesnt rack all the way and the bullet gets stuck in the chamber I’ve tried it on my Glock 26 it doesn’t have that problem any ideas as to why ?

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

No idea. Odd. G17s feed anything... usually.

Oddly enough, I just purchased some of the Fiocchi today. The bullet doesn't look like that in the two boxes I got, it looks more like the bullet in the Federal rounds you reviewed.

This is the same bullet Corbon is using on the 125+P 9mm i tested it .. except the jacket just self destructed .. I couldn’t even find the jacket but it did come to rest in 3 rd water jug ..

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Yea, that jacket separation is a conundrum. It definitely hurts the weight retention. But maybe it doesn't matter that much... The core gets good penetration, and that's probably adequate considering the advantages of being able to practice with the same ammo as you carry.

@gk5891

Күн бұрын

Every bullet has a velocity envelope.

It sucks when the chronograph refuses to make good readings. That's some valuable data lost. Although if all ballistics gel was exactly the same, that is the only data that would really be required. The speed is irrelevant next to the actual terminal performance. And that Fiocchi stuff left a nasty wound track. That would be a surgeon's nightmare. As for the pass through round, it still left a hole that I doubt anyone would want added to them.

This is a year old so you've probably have figured this out by now, but those chronographs you have to place in the Sun for them to work right with the diffusers, if it's cloudy remote the diffusers to get more light into the sensor.

I have used a number of different brands for my GX4..The only make that has caused problems is Fiocchi 115 Grain, FMJ...Getting frozen in the chamber with a one helluva time removing same.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the range report.

@fromthefuture9353

Жыл бұрын

@@GeographyCzar need to clarify.. For months Fiocchi and my GX$ had no issues...An ex -marine friend believes the recent problem was just a bad batch of Fiocchi.....

Tools&Targets has a video showing one perform okay through cloth, but I kind of thought they seemed questionable based on the design alone. Looks like a TMJ they just drilled the top out of lol.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Yes, "questionable" indeed. Particularly, I think the Federal are not properly engineered.

@nigeltheoutlaw

Жыл бұрын

@@GeographyCzar Interesting to think that brands not known for defensive rounds can put out higher quality budget hollow points than a big name like federal can. I've been surprised by the performance I've seen from brands like Fiocci, Magtech, IMI etc. compared to big names like Federal.

I use civil Defence by liberty as they are hot, do allot of damage and weigh like half regular ammo

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

OK, I'll have to test them in gel next year. So many people believe in them...

What glock caliber and gen model is currently most used by police and armed security ?

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Probably G17, Gen 4 - maybe still a G22, but that's my brother's area of expertise. I'm mainly interested in concealed carry (yes, I know you can conceal and carry a full size Glock, but I don't want to).

@Horror_Film_Aficionado

Жыл бұрын

@@GeographyCzar hahaha ohhhhh a BABY ehh

@rileyneufeld7001

Жыл бұрын

Most agencies went back to 9mm once 40 and 45 didn't show much if any added terminal performance (and even worse barrier penetration). I'd bet the g17 is the most common.

@Horror_Film_Aficionado

Жыл бұрын

@@rileyneufeld7001 do you know what generation of glock 17

@rileyneufeld7001

Жыл бұрын

@@Horror_Film_Aficionado Probably gen4 gen3's seem to be showing their age.

Palmetto state has them for 20.00 on 12/28/23

You haft put a chronograph in sunlight helps'

@GeographyCzar

4 ай бұрын

My old ProChrono required blue skies above to see the bullets at all. My new one needs clouds (and usually the shields too) or it won't read right, just says something in the 200s every time, which I know is wrong. Go figure.

Your chrono was reading bits of unburnt powder, by the way.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I guess I need to step back a bit. Just don't want to hurt the new Chrony!

@itstiny.

Жыл бұрын

Understandable, I blasted my old Caldwell with a .30 Carbine a couple years back.

Good test and video! But I just can’t see anyone wanting to go as cheap as they can with their tool and ammo that they rely on to protect their life and the life of their loved ones. I look for deals on many things in life. But not my gun and ammo that I carry everyday. I will save and spend the extra money for proven performance and reliability. Speer Gold Dots and Federal HST’s for me. Nothing I’ve seen has convinced me to switch from those rounds.

@sexytopramen

8 ай бұрын

These fiocchi are absolutely fantastic to build a stockpile of hollow point ammunition, which is what I buy them for. Being able to get 500rds of adequate performance jhp 9mm for $199 in the current market is pretty great. I see a lot of people who stockpile lots of fmj handgun ammo for emergencies and it makes no sense to me, as you're not going to be doing much target practice. These split that difference between cost and performance when needed perfectly. Plus, the bullet design of these is pretty close to fmj ammo which helps it feed properly in most guns. My mp5 eats these like candy and packs a punch on fox and raccoon.

I was like, "Maybe Brandon was right, holy shit!" I knew when I saw that 4177 we had found it. Sure a few might be duds, but we found that legendary 9mm that blows out your lungs.

Remington green and white box and Winchester white box is the best "budget" self defense ammo out there

@samuelmorado70

Жыл бұрын

Herters from Cabelas are made by Winchester are 22.99 for 50. They shot fine from my Taurus Spectrum. Hade one light primer strike but 2 nd strike capability worked

🇦🇺😎👍Nice

The fiocci is reading unburned powder

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Possibly...

@thealarmclock9307

Жыл бұрын

@@GeographyCzar no not possibly.. that's what it's doing. It's doing that because your too close. I'd imagine the federal is using a faster powder that burned more completely, or a smaller granule size that didn't register on the Chrono... Back up a little bit.

Train with the Federal and defend with the Fiocchi...

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

LOL! Yes! (Except the Fiocchi is actually cheaper, so I'd probably use it for both.)

I’ll stick to Winchester to my hollow points

If you have a problem with your readings us a black marker.

Thanks for showing two bad carry rounds. I wouldn't carry either. Stick with 124gr Gold Dot or 124gr HST if you want correct performance.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Those tests are coming... And I agree. Somebody asked for cheaper ammo, so I tried.

@videogazer801

Жыл бұрын

The Fiocchi did expand, so, that isn’t a bad round

Imagine if those numbers were accurate lol 4100 fps with a 115 grain bullet would be insane, that would be like 4300 FPE.

@hc1616

Жыл бұрын

lol that would be overkill like strong as a 50 cal

@hc1616

Жыл бұрын

i did the math in a muzzle energy calculator. it would be like 2.8x strong as a .50 ae

@thatoneguy454c

Жыл бұрын

@@hc1616 lol it would be about 4300 FTLB of energy at the muzzle

Federal does not own cci! Speer owns cci and gold dots. Federal makes there own primers that are soft and fantastic! Hst or speer gold dots are my carry!

You were shooting too close to the chronograph. That is a typical error reading.

@GeographyCzar

Жыл бұрын

Yup. You are dead right. Somebody else told me this, and I backed off a couple feet and got good results. I need to retest the Fiocchi now that I know.

The fiochi 9mm have speed faster than 223 caliber wkwkwkwkwk 🤣🤣 the chrono is error