Matt says, "If you're trying to penetrate someone, if you're trying to get underneath their clothing and get deep into them". Interesting phrasing in which the context is is very important.

@SledgeOfHouseHammer

2 жыл бұрын

Bow chicka wow wow...

@axansaga

2 жыл бұрын

I paused and went straight to the comments. Not disappointed

@MrHadenhenson

2 жыл бұрын

@@axansaga same

@anvilbrunner.2013

2 жыл бұрын

Straight thrusting for the over 50's.

@gerryjamesedwards1227

2 жыл бұрын

And only the merest of twinkles in the eye during delivery. The man is made of stone.

I was studying, but this was clearly more important.

@dvmpld9103

2 жыл бұрын

Same

@culture-nature-mobility7867

2 жыл бұрын

Off course it was!

@OldSpaghettifactory89

2 жыл бұрын

You're studying the blade

@goldenageofdinosaurs7192

2 жыл бұрын

You are now a student of steel..

@nowthenzen

2 жыл бұрын

you are making good choices in life and we support you in that

It bears mentioning that sabres aren't curved in the same ways. Some curves are continuous (katanas), some are curved and yet have their point in-line with wrist because the grip is angled (some shashkas), some have their curves start at only about halfway to two thirds up the blade (most early to high medieval Magyar sabres, several post-medieval Hungarian sabres) and so on. Things that are true of the two sabres seen in videos may or may not apply.

I have never touched a sword in my life. But I enjoy learning about them

@Griff1011

Жыл бұрын

I don't own any swords. I have a nylon practice longsword that I have never sparred with. I fucking love swords tho. I'm just broke and don't have the time or money to get into HEMA.

@xavierprunty4508

5 ай бұрын

Im a all blacksmith that makes both fine blades and economy blades if you want to get an affordable weapon​@@Griff1011

@Arichson

3 ай бұрын

Same here pal

See that Superdry spokesman there, he's got curved sabers. Curved. Sabers.

@titanscerw

5 ай бұрын

I guess those are sabres tho ...

5:29 - 5:35 - Context is everything. Matt has done it again.

wow, three in one go and he didn't even threaten a smile; this man has become an innuendo master before our very eyes

I just have to say I think this is one of the most important videos you've put out. It cuts to the quick of one of the most fundamental aspects of sword design in a way that really focuses down on just this one element, as I think most times folks discuss sword blades in the straight vs curved debate, entirely different models if sword are discussed. Longsword vs katana, saber vs rapier, etc. This dispenses with all the distractions and focuses on pure geometry. I learned a lot from this video; I wasn't aware of several of the quirks inherent to curved blades that you mentioned here and it really helped develop my understanding of them given that most if my own experience is with straight blades, even down to my own sabre. Thank you for putting this out.

@terhazza

2 жыл бұрын

Yes this was super informative and particularly valuable for me was empirical observation that everything being equal, curved sword seems to deliver more force to the target in a cut than straight. I have seen lots of coffee table theoryhammering about this and also arguments that there is no actual difference and that curved blade was simply a fashion/quirk of manufacture or something. Yet the popularity of curved cutting swords (both curved and recurved) across the ages implies that there must have been some fundamental advantages in the blade geometry itself.

@midshipman8654

2 жыл бұрын

@@terhazza Dont take that point too far however. Matt has also mentioned on many ocassions that that can be overstated as well. And trends can and usually are multifaceted. there was probably both aspects of utility and culture that influences blade shape, not just one or the other.

I've heard that a slight upwards curve really helps with penetration.

@TheWhiteDragon3

2 жыл бұрын

I showed you my slight upwards curve, please respond

@zazenwind

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on positioning.

@lightningandodinify

2 жыл бұрын

._.

@jakestephens4868

2 жыл бұрын

@@zazenwind you mean "context"

@fonar-pro

Жыл бұрын

in a curved blade, the point of application of force on impact will be smaller, which means the depth of the resulting penetration will be greater. sorry about my english

The physics of the parry may be helped by the majority of the blade being aft of the hand. So an impact will create a bending moment that wants to put the front edge on line. Also, I love the sneaky thrust over the arm.

@emarsk77

2 жыл бұрын

That's my thought as well. The point of impact is slightly behind the hand, and that helps keeping the sword in place even with a looser grip.

You didn't mention whether the curved blade offered any noticeable increase to ease of edge alignment while cutting … which I would have thought would be among it's chief advantages. Have you not noticed any difference in this regard? I may have to significantly adjust my priors!

Long time subscriber, first time commenter. I love what you do and how unbiased, or...worldly you are in your studies. That makes you truly great. Please continue to share with us.

It seems like heavy cavalry sabres are often straight and light cavalry sabres are often curved. Is this observation accurate? If so, I wonder why.

@akashahuja2346

2 жыл бұрын

Heavy and light cavalry have different roles. The heavy cav do the charging against formations so I guess go in with the point. The light cav are usually engaged in scouting, flanking and harassing actions where they are passing through dispersed enemies and the slice and dice curved blade is the better option.

@Theduckwebcomics

2 жыл бұрын

They're meant to use them more in the thrust for charges apparently, while light cavalry would slash, harry and get involved in a melé.

@Psittacus_erithacus

2 жыл бұрын

I believe your observation to be correct (just from the examples I have happened to notice-which it must be said, is a widely incomplete sample). I have understood this to be due to design/ethos: that heavy cavalry were expected to be armed with what amounted to a lance in sabre form; while light cavalry were expected to be armed with swords. Effectively a reflection of their different historical equivalents/progenitors. As such, this tendency (heavy tending to straight & light tending to curve) may have been as much tradition/fashion/expectation as deliberate, functional choice.

@grailknight6794

2 жыл бұрын

Not always but sometimes yes, most victorian era cavalry sabres be it for heavies or lights are only slightly curved anyway.

@hic_tus

2 жыл бұрын

that changes in time, matt made a few videos on the topic, check them out ;)

Fascinating! A very unique comparison. Thank you for the information!

"...if you're trying to get underneath their clothing and deep into them..." so, he's just committed to the double entendres now.

I am a side-sword/cup-hilt rapier guy, with that being said, your Saber design is really nice...Congratulations to getting your goal for your ideal Saber being produced!!!

Perfect timing. I was studying your older films about this topic for nerdy science reasons and you just gave me another one

".....if you're trying to penetrate someone, if you're trying to get underneath their clothing and get deep into them, then the straight blade is better for that than a curved blade....." I wasn't given a choice.

@bo_392

2 жыл бұрын

It's all good! His next sentence was, "That being said, a curved blade can do interesting things a straight blade can't do so well."

@johnapple6646

Жыл бұрын

If your blade is curved, you might want to see a doctor about it

I do prefer a straight sabre personally, slightly curved like 1845 is fine.

Thank God you made this video 😂 I wanted the mark 3 but I was torn about curved or straight and thankfully you have this covered! lol

Great video Mat! Much appreciated :)

Been waiting for this video!

Excellent video!

Oh this got me thinking about a design for a curved rapier with a rapier system based on weird angle thrusts with opposition.

I was expecting really curve would look more like a Polish sabre

@kevinsmith9013

2 жыл бұрын

nahhhhhhh

@Theduckwebcomics

2 жыл бұрын

Polish sabres aren't the yardstick by which we measure curved sabres 😅

Interestingly these conclusions seem to suggest that in most modern hema bouts a straight blade would give a slight advantage as cutting more or hitting harder aren't actually useful in that context

What i like with a curved blade is that when you block in the upper part of the body, it protects head, shoulder and torso. With a straight blade you have go farther to protect your shoulder and it exposes your head more or vice versa.

Matt, thank you.

I'm interested to know. If the curved sword occupies more space does that aid in intercepting the opponents thrusts, or would the curved blade at least widen the tolerances for accuracy a little bit?

Thanks Matt

Matt sums up all the reasons why I prefer straight blades.

5:28 Can we all appreciate the fact that he said all that with a straight face?

Wait, did I miss where you said your preference? You gave lots of data about the differences, but you didn't say which one you prefer. Or did I miss it entirely and I'm just embarrassing myself here?

@edi9892

2 жыл бұрын

I think that he dislikes strongly curved blades and prefers tip action over slashing. Also, Indian sabres don't work with his system.

@zurgesmiecal

2 жыл бұрын

both

@pearceelliott7855

2 жыл бұрын

If he said it, I missed it too.

@bentrieschmann

2 жыл бұрын

He didn't say, actually.

@JainaSoloB312

2 жыл бұрын

I got the impression that he personally preferred straight blades, but I think he intentionally didn't pick one or the other in this video because they both have unique advantages and disadvantages and it just depends what you're looking for

“If you’re trying to get under their clothes and deep into them…“ BOOM! Phrasing. 😀

@Ordo1980

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on the CONTEXT 🙃

Learning to use the sabre atm. One observation I have is that a curved blade helps to teach you about edge alignment in the cut.

Very interesting!

Eager to hear which you personally prefer as stated early in the video. If I had to guess id say you would opt for not then straight nor the curved but then slightly curved...i base that on the marginalized advantages and disadvantages: not so much less reach, unique thrust angles, fortey-er forte, slightly heavier slash. A context fencer, considering not simply tournament points but the martial experience, I think would opt for the balance of strengths and weaknesses. That's where I find myself anyway as a roworth/Taylor focused practitioner who uses a very 1796 light cav style curve and a half basket straight backsword in practice. Either way I'd love all three varietes of the cat easton mk3 haha

@michelebattaggia8685

6 ай бұрын

I agree. I premise that I've never touched a sword in my life, so my opinion doesn't count a lot. Anyway, thinking about it, if I have to choose, I'd choose a slightly curved saber for a no armour foot duel. I think that the inability to trust directly of the curved saber is a great disadvantage. The slightly curved saber has not this disadvantage (even if it is not efficient as a straight sword in doing it). At the same it has all the advantages of the sabers, even if reduced.

I like the handgaurds on the cutlass for an off hand better than a round shield, although I might try dodging first or deflecting the two handed or Danish axes in that case. And I liked my idea of retreating with a main hand flail, or it being a great weapon of retreat around stone. Although the person with a bow might not want a big off hand cutlass. The curved blade could still be more suited towards cutting, with possibly scoring more than one hit on a few of a thousand opponents, maybe after a good opening parry or handgaurd punch deflection, and less prone to injuring yourself with off hand awkwardness, though at slight disadvantage comparing opening thrusts with the straight bladed cutlass. Which it looks like most people use in the main hand fencing style. Or rather than a rapier, very good for thrusting, depending on length against a sabre. With a main hand sabre rather than an off hand.

Came for the context, was not disappointed.

The main advantage of both the straight and curved sword is it provides HEMA people with the equivalent to the Superman vs Batman argument for comic book fans;). If all you do is argue the point you're not likely to win a fight with either one of them;).

If possible you should do a close up, slow motion video that shows the parties using a straight blade and a curved blade. I'm not sure the visuals will tell us anything but my guess is that in seeing the impact in slow motion it might help reveal why a curved blade takes the hit better.

Huh I never thought about how a curved blade could or would hit harder. But basically the angular acceleration of a curved blade increases further towards the tip, because the angle of acceleratiom increases from the pivot point, in addition to the tangential acceleration. So the centripetal acceleration of a blade increases towards the tip by two variable rates instead of a variable rate and a constant rate. That is if the sword were only rotating from a fixed point. I have no idea how that would compound the actual acceleration of it's displacement through actual space (meaning total distanced traveled through the swing) generated by swinging with wrist, elbow, shoulders, etc. But uhhh... I have a headache now.

@lunacorvus3585

2 жыл бұрын

The actual physics behind this can be really complicated indeed.

@demomanchaos

2 жыл бұрын

Tip speed is based purely on how fast the hilt is moving, and the point being further forward or back doesn't change that.

@Adam_okaay

2 жыл бұрын

@@demomanchaos no... Do you understand how angular acceleration, tangential acceleration, and centripetal acceleration work? Do you understand how a sling increases a person's ability to throw a projectile? Do you understand how things like vectors of force and levers work? Clearly not.

@josephburchanowski4636

2 жыл бұрын

Much of it is probably just because the curved blades are sturdier and that they hit later than strait blades. There is likely a small boost from the physics from the different direction of force vector on impact, but at best this would be a small percentage.

@joshuahancock2079

2 жыл бұрын

Another factor is the angle at which the blade contacts the target. If we draw a tangent plane on the surface we wish to strike, we deliver the most energy when the tangent line of the blade is parallel with that plane (aka: the force is perpendicular to the plane, or maximized). A straight blade can almost never strike a surface in a parallel way, but a curved blade’s tangent lines change, so they can be much closer to parallel to the surface you are striking. Hence, curved blade deliver more of the full energy in the blow. Did that make sense in how I explained it?

Good video 👍🏻

Matt's definitely hitting the weights these days

Matt, something interesting I noticed, maybe only to me. My son and I, along with some other friends play some fantasy TTRPG's. I have noticed in the past that arming a player character that has wings on their back is a bit tricky. Most polearms present no challenge, the same with most non-double bitted axes, but HEMA type longswords and of course greatswords in their methods of execution look to be dangerious to one's own wings. The same to a lesser extent with the HEMA type use of the langmesser. Now watching you perform the molineux with both the straight and curved sabers I noted that the straight saber presented the same danger to our fantasy players wings as the afore mentioned swords, but when you were demonstrating this with the curved, particularly the Persian shamshir, that the body was presented with some danger due to the closeness of the blade, but to the wings might be less so. I realize that I am dealing in fantasy, and in situations where "magic" could preempt physics, but it is one of those things that has occupied my mind through the years. Interesting video, thanks.

@adambielen8996

2 жыл бұрын

Magic being a catchall solutions to everything is boring. It's much more interesting to think how such things as wings would affect fighting styles and weapon choices.

@100dfrost

2 жыл бұрын

@@adambielen8996 I agree. My son says that they've practiced with wings, so they will be in good practice, but you watch cutting videos and see people not under combat pressure forgetting and putting the wrong foot forward in a cut. I believe taking the proposed proper usage of a weapon into consideration helps with my suspension of disbelief. As a gm I don't hold my players to this standard, but I do mention it when they choose their weapons. Thanks for the comment.

@tonkatsu72

2 жыл бұрын

Almost all creatures with wings fold them so close to their back/thorax as to not be a barrier to mobility when not flying. It would be if a different story for aerial combat though with wings extended. It would fun world building to think different tactics and weapons that would develop. A pole weapon would make the greatest sense to take advantage of mobility and reduce the chance of flying into ground or opponent in a charge.

I had a maestro tell me that he would prefer a straight blade for dueling and a curved blade for combat and for dueling while mounted. Speaking of which, how common were mounted duels, does anyone know? Thank you for yet another excellent video, your hard work is much appreciated. Peace

I just went to that website, it's a pain in the ass to navigate.

5:25 I'm impressed you managed to do that bit with a straight face....

Good video! I like the curved sabre, especially the U.S.Cavalry sabre as shown in the John Ford trilogy & "Major Dundee"...I always thought the sabre was more for slashing than for stabbing while on horseback...Perhaps you could do a video on how to use & carry a sabre while on a horse...thanks!

We would love some footage of these sparring sessions!

Good video. I guess having everything about the swords the same, except the blade shape was a pretty smart way of learning the differences, advantages and disadvantages between them. I'm wondering if dual wielding with one curved blade and the other a straight blade has an advantage, as opposed to using two identical blade types. .

Very interesting

Excellent observations Sir, now take it a step further and compare sabers with forward curving and forward-leaning back curves, examples that come to mind are the kukri, khopesh, Dacian falx, sickles, and various Philipino and Malaysian blades. In the west, the forward lean seems to have been accomplished (mostly) through the use of pistol grips of various types, especially in modern times. If you lay 3 such blades on a tabletop (back, straight, forward) you can see which would arrive first on a simple angle 1. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

How about a link to wherever you can look at/purchase one of those practice sabers?

Does the stronger guard come from the opponent's blade partially sliding on impact? If so, the difference would probably be smalelr with sharp blades.

Matt, can you consider recording the audio in (or converting it to) mono? When you move, the audio moves from side to side, which is slightly distracting. It's not a huge deal, but it's also not a huge cost. Cheers!

How do the two swords compare in blade flex when thrusting?

Do all of these points also apply to two-handed single edged swords?

I’m curious about hatchet points for slightly curved swords. Would it be beneficial to have the point in line with the hand, or slightly above it?

If there is more impact felt by the target with the curved blade, is there also more impact felt by the wielder?

That's a lot of fascinating observations. I seem to know, instinctively perhaps, that a curved blade would feel somewhat clumsier in my hand than a straight blade. Of course anyone can be trained out of that. I also believe that I would not be a "natural" when it comes to fighting with a sword. I guess there are people that are naturals at this stuff, like there are at everything else. But, I also believe that, were this hema available to me, I think I could be trained up into a reasonable good fencer. Just based on watching so many of Matt's videos, and knowing that he is sort of a specialist in the saber. I'm guessing he prefers a curved one. I haven't quite finished the video. Maybe he will mention his preference by the end. Thanks Matt and congrats on getting your own sword designs made. That's a great accomplishment.

@akashahuja2346

2 жыл бұрын

The fencing methods taught in things like smallsword and British and French military sabre are unlikely to contain much 'natural' stuff in their systems. They all require a lot of repetitive drills and practice to overcome people's natural reactions. If you wanted to try HEMA you would be fine. You can start with a blank slate with no bad habits to inhibit your progress. It's super fun.

@kennymonty8206

2 жыл бұрын

@@akashahuja2346 that sounds great. But, I'm in the U.S. in a fairly rural area. I'm afraid the closest we get to hema is watching the Lord of the rings. Haha. You are right though, I would enjoy it. I'm kind of curious about the process one goes through discovering their favorite type of weapon. Have you had this experience? And, if so, what was it like for you?

@akashahuja2346

2 жыл бұрын

@@kennymonty8206 that is an interesting question. I initially had an interest in smallsword but recently started to learn military sabre. I also find knife and dagger enjoyable. And last week had a chance to try some rapier. I think that once you start in HEMA and get to try out various systems you will end up with several favourites! I know I am very lucky to be near a premier HEMA club.

@kennymonty8206

2 жыл бұрын

@@akashahuja2346 you lucky dog. Main gauche sounds tricky. I like it.

Straight saber, side sword, and broadsword, I wonder how much difference there is between them.

@tedarcher9120

2 жыл бұрын

Difference is in balance. Sidesword point of balance is very close to the hilt, a broadsword a bit further and a straight sabre further still. Sideswords have pob usually about 5cm from crossguard, swords 5-10 and sabres 10-20

"The point is coming perilously close to you." VERY perilous considering the anatomy near that point LOL

I understand why you glossed over it, but could you talk more about why you think curved swords hit harder? That sounds like a really interesting video topic! Also, I've heard it said that backwards curving blades can help with edge alignment. Could you talk about that too? Finally, how do you think forward curving and recurve blades fit into this? I've curious by recurve blades weren't favoured more, on paper they always seemed great to me

Hi Matt, I see an advantage for the straight blade in this: wether you train in smallsword, backsword, spadroon, sidesword or rapier, the straight sabre is going to be more familiar to you.

You covered dismounted but a sabre is a mounted weapon. How do they react differently while in the charge or the Mele when you have to worry about cutting the ears off your horse.

Have you ever tested a saber with a slight forward curve?

But which do you prefer?

I would think that the curve would make the space the blade occupies a bit more complicated as well. And I would expect that to be both good and bad, as you have noted.

I was waiting for you to say which one is your favorite... Still waiting....

What did Patton push for a straight saber?

I wonder if the parries on the curved blade are stronger because you have to be closer to your opponent. So your parries are closer to your hand, thus on a stronger part of the blade. Just a thought.

Do the curved sabres hit harder (in sparring) because edge alignment is easier with a curved blade? Just a thought.

I think that the curved blade is easier to hit the target with more powerful force, which may be related to the closer attack distance. When the curved blade hits the target, the part where the blade touches the target has heavier weight. Therefore, when the straight blade and the curved blade are used with the same strength, the force of the curved blade is greater. This involves more complicated factors (drawing a picture may be easier to understand)

What about horsback fencing where is no footwork and horse head before You? I think that it is the situation where curved blade is better.

Which one is easier to learn?

Matt, what about swords with a reverse curve? Upside down saber

I have both the straight & the slightly curved one but i find that i prefer the straight blade. They are both wonderfully made things though.

Completely random, but is that a new two handed sword directly behind you? The one with the red grip

@bentrieschmann

2 жыл бұрын

He has had it for a while, it is a practice great sword.

So would it be fair to say that a beginner doing sabre (in British military systems anyway) would be better off with a straight blade on balance?

Is there any thrusts tests done with straight vs curved blades? We see numerous cutting tests but rarely thrusts tests. And what targets will be good analogues for medieval thrusting targets?

@Psittacus_erithacus

2 жыл бұрын

Pigs in coats? … expensive & messy though. I suppose you could fashion the front of a rib cage from light wood, back it with a heavy sack full of something soft and dress the whole thing in appropriate clothing. Whether any of this would meaningfully improve your modern practice of HEMA is another question all together, of course. I am, sadly, much too lazy to find out myself!

@VernonKun

2 жыл бұрын

@@Psittacus_erithacus Surely (fresh) dead pigs are best analogues of human targets, but they are expensive and don't come with organs even when you can buy them. I suppose some large chunk of meat can do like the arrow tests in Tod's workshop.

So which one do you prefer?

WOOTZ IS BACK !! :D Will we have a cleaning up video ?

Would the culture that the swordsman has grown up in, make the choice of sword? Just wondering. Very interesting, thanks

The smallest moment of inertia (about the axis roughly in line with the blade) of the curved blade is larger than that of the straight blade. Maybe relevant to the circular disengage

.... Is the guarding point would of the reasons why there is alot of examples of straight blades with curves edges, having a more stable strong defense seems really usefull.

So, which do do you prefer?

I wonder what the difference in wearing them would be. For instance, would the curved blade tend to knock around into more things, as it takes up more area, or would the curve allow it to move more naturally with the legs & not feel as obtrusive, though that may not be the case.

@testovaci001email8

2 жыл бұрын

Curved is more wearable...

@Soorma_9

2 жыл бұрын

I wear a curved sabre often, its super wearable, and is rarely an issue when sitting on the floor or chair etc. Depends on size, activity and environment of course. As Matt would say, 'Context' hahaha

killer feature (pun intended) of the curved blade, it hits harder

I always liked wrap shots curved blades

The straight saber looks an awful lot like an early rapier. Any connection?

A new Video with Mr. Superdry 😁

The curved blade given it's geometry might allow for greater offensive opportunity beacuse of deflection, no? Also perhaps why the impacts feel subdued..

One hesitates to ask about the "slightly curved" sabre you showed but didn't use in your explanations. Might one inquire about the "slightly curved" sabre's advantages and weaknesses as weapons?

@JainaSoloB312

2 жыл бұрын

I would guess that the slightly curved blade has all or most of the advantages and disadvantages of the very-curved blade, just to lesser degrees

If a curved blade is stronger in absorbing impact: are they more often used without a shield? When using a shield, is it more preferable to use a straight sword, compared when using one sword - one empty hand only?

Patton when he studied this early 1900's came back with the straight blade.

@scholagladiatoria

2 жыл бұрын

Patton's blade was copied from the Swedish M1893.

Regarding the curved blade feeling more firm in the deflection of blows, I'm of the suspicion that a better analogy for the absorption of the blow might be (ironically) a hammer. Anyone who has been involved with construction knows that the hammer face has a curve to it - ostensibly, this allows even less-than-perfectly-aligned blows to a nail head to drive the force at a truer angle downwards, and thus you don't bend the nails over. My theory is that the curve of the blade allows for a similarly truer angle of impact when the two blades meet, whereas the straight blade (unless aligned perfectly with the incoming blow) would necessarily include some angular deflection of force, and perhaps lead to the slightly weaker feel.

what about curved vs straight picks? ANd bladed picks like the zaghnal have all sorts of curved blades, are they functional? Additionally, doesn't the lenght depend on how you measure it? For example a 34 inches curved blade needs you to be closer to your target than a 34 inches straight blade, but what if the curved blade is, like 35.36 inches? Depending on the curvature such blade could have the same reach as the straight one, but have more mass (or a longer blade and the same mass). Also such a blade could have the center of mass in the same position of the straight blade (in the X axis, while the Y position axis is moved upwards)

What was the spelling of that style/swing he mentioned at around 10:30? Moolinae? Mulanae? Im interested in what sources describe that spin/swing/attack because i naturally do it in my fencing duels without knowing it was a technique and ive won alot of rounds as the opponent wasnt expecting it, or underestimated how quickly it would ‘unleash’ and ive won a point by knocking their sword arm

@atom8248

9 ай бұрын

Moulinet, it's a cut from the wrist used a lot in saber

Okay, it was worth digging into the youtube swamp again...