I like that you aren't afraid to talk about classism.

@thedanespeaks

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Language is a living thing and he really gets at how class dominates the narrative.

@castielsgranny4308

10 ай бұрын

George Bernard Shaw wrote Pygmalion about that, which turned into My Fair Lady. Eliza was limited by her speech.

By the way, you do a brilliant job explaining English as a language in a cultural context. More of that!

2:25 In Italy, every 50 km you travel, the language is completely different, and the food too.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, indeed. You should make a video about it.

Hi Gideon, I've been learning English for almost all of my life and I've got to be quite honest with you, this is the first time that I've had an opportunity to see clear and precise explanations and pronunciation. All the best. Miodrag

This was an excellent analysis and explanation of historical contexts. Thank you for telling me about the origins and transformation of RP.

I absolutely agree with you, although I have to talk about RP at the university. Great video. Super reasonable explanation, and prove that you are the best!!!

This was a superb lesson clearing up so much confusion! Thank you!

You never fail to provide great content with such a pleasant delivery. Thank you Gideon

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoy it

Unlike in other countries, we have a tradition dating from the fifties of young people going away from their home town for further education, especially university. I am from Liverpool but went to university in Wales in 1972. There, I rubbed shoulders for three years with people from all over the UK. I remember quite well how difficult it was at first to understand some of my fellow students and to make myself understood by them. As time went on, I'm pretty certain that we all modified our accents towards a kind of "standard" pronunciation which I would suggest could be called "red-brick" English if we take "red-brick" to mean all of the newer universities and, later, polytechnics which developed in the UK after the end of WWII. I went on to be a school teacher in Dorset and I am pretty sure I would have been almost incomprehensible to my students if I had arrived with the raw scouser accent I had when I was 18. A friend of mine, who was a career soldier, had a similar experience in the army. A Glaswegian Scot, he and I would have been unable to hold a conversation in our teens but, when we first met in our thirties, we had both knocked the corners from our accents so that his army English and my red-brick English matched up easily.

Жыл бұрын

"Unlike in other countries", wrong. As in completely cluelessly wrong.

@alantravers4264

Жыл бұрын

@ Why?

@maythesciencebewithyou

11 ай бұрын

Sounds like you don't know anything about other countries. It would have been one thing if you had gone back many centuries and claimed England did it long before any other country. But the 70s of the 20th century? What makes you think young people from other countries did not go or don't go far away from their home town for further education. And you act like ALL young people in the UK went far away from home to get further education, which isn't true either. You are quite ignorant of other countries.

@erickan7064

4 ай бұрын

An excellent example of how a standard pronunciation can efficiently and naturally be fostered and bred in an environment without any intervention from the government or the experts it appoints.

I've seen earlier some discussions about "let the RP term be left in the past"... and those discussions only confused me more. I appreciate your explanation. It sorted the issue out.

This is so fascinating! Thank you for your videos!

I love how much of a rebel you are and I feel exactly the same. I tell all my students that any good standard English accent is good enough when being taught by teachers if they are native speakers. It does not have to be RP as it's basically an extreme form of English - brine treizers :) I teach using a Standard Scottish English accent (I'm originally from Glasgow). I'm based in Luxembourg.

@castielsgranny4308

10 ай бұрын

It is fascinating to this American that you can say you live in another country from the one you were born in, and it’s no more of a big deal than me saying I’m going to visit Louisiana or something.

@MaxTalbot69

8 ай бұрын

"brine treizers" Wot? 😛

I am so happy to have found this! Language fascinates.

Good day, Gideon. Yes you are definitely our beloved English teacher online. Thanks so much for the explanation about SSBE..🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

Only switzerland can rival the sheer amount of dialects in Britain. I'm living in Switzerland, and people told me that they dislike it, when people refer to their language as a "swiss German dialect", mostly because there are so many that even somebody from one canton cannot properly understand somebody from a neighbouring canton. And maybe that's akin to the issue you describe when "RP".

@qwertasdfg8828

9 ай бұрын

As a smith for water tubes, you easily make some 5,000€ per month in Switzerland with no cultural German background: No German philosophy, no German composers, no German writers, no German thinking. You dare not be saying you or someone else have learned their "language" completely, it would sound offensive like an insult. Sounds too much provincial. You will be accepted nowhere with that kind of German in the whole world elsewhere. It is not understandable for Germans. It is a true dialect, because they have no epics like Beowulf or Homer's Iliad. This meets, say, also for Low German, where many romans have been written in, but no epics exists.

Gideon, I think you’ve made a perfect historical reconstruction and reasoned analysis of the matter, and yes, I totally agree with you; as far as I’m concerned, it’s done 👌 I also think, however, that the problem is not so much to change the name of the accent but to overcome this anachronistic (and preconceived) equivalence: standard accent=social position (of prestige), education, professional skills.

Yes, you're my beloved teacher 😊

Thanks for the explanation Sir! Would you kindly give a brief on the so-called Estuary English? Some day.

In Colombia we can tell inmedialty the social status by Speaking. Living in Spain for 20 years You can tell It in here too..

I am addicted to your lessons, you are a fabulous teacher!

@frankgradus9474

2 жыл бұрын

You're not the only one.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

You're too kind

@marylkap6498

Жыл бұрын

@@LetThemTalkTV 😁😄😉

I have followed an online RP course mixed with some Posh words and expressions, elocution and accent reduction. The teacher was from Essex and I enjoyed it a lot. It helped me mastering some sounds and improve my pronunciation. But I'm daily exposed to SSBE and I guess it's ok to get things mixed. I a big stan of yours, Gideon

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

I agree it's good to hear a range of accents. Thanks

I have just been asking myself about this expression and here I immediately stumbled over the answer!

Good points!

I am African American and grew up in the Southern United States, and I speak a very posh form of American English. That is solely due to neurodivergence and education, not upbringing. My parents and grandparents were all working class and spoke heavily accented African American English. Because of how my brain works I never developed our regional North Carolina accent, so I'm often assumed to be from the Northeastern USA and everyone thinks I'm more posh than I am. Anglophone accents are a tricky thing. No matter what region of a country you're from, education and mass media can do a number on your accent and dialect. I figure it's similar for my British peers who are BAME or grew up in the North or Scotland.

Despite you being a (bloody) southerner, these are pretty good talks! I definitely agree on the use of the name "RP". When I was a lad ... RP was POSH, different from colloquial south-east (to me, being from the borderlands between Lancashire and Yorkshire, Oxford and Cambridge are "south" - in fact they're "Sarf, near Landan, inni'?"). RP was from the BBC Newsreader accent to "Mai hasbend end Ei" in the Christmas speech. Aristocratic and redolent with the aroma of underserved privilege. Your explanationss are great and easily understood. Thanks very much. And thanks to Tarquin!

It's interesting and it makes sense. I agree

Great topic .

Great session

Nice video. SLIGHTLY relevant to Arabic and the case of standard Arabic versus colloquial Arabic dialects.

Yes you are my beloved teacher at KZread. 😚 A note on the people with this "RP" accent. I think there are more people with RP-accent in non-native english speaking countries. I would appreciated your opinion, when you listen to the speakers in the European parliament.

Gideon! Jolly good to see you old bean !

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

chuffed to hear that.

Totally agree.

That photo you put up of the guy in a top hat was taken outside Trinity college in... Dublin, Ireland.

I agree. I didn't 'receive' the pronunciation, I grew up hearing and speaking it (for the most part, with some London modifications). Not only does 'BBC English' not mean RP any more, but we hear so many accents that sometimes one struggles to understand what is being said. The benefit of a more 'standard' accent is that EVERYONE (or nearly everyone) can understand you. This is one reason why the Canadian broadcaster, the late Peter Jennings, did so well on American TV: his accent was such that all Americans found him easy on the ear.

I was born in Liverpool, grew up near Warrington, have lived in Hampshire, Essex, Shropshire, London and Cumbria. Cumbrian has completely different words. For example little is lall.

@OceanChild75

Жыл бұрын

Interesting! When you meet people who don’t know anything about you, where do they think you’re from?

@JenKirby

Жыл бұрын

@@OceanChild75 nobody says anything, except for one day I was walking the dog in North London and got chatting to a man who suddenly said “you are from Liverpool, aren’t you?” He said he was a sailor so he knew Liverpool. I was very surprised. My mother’s accent was what I call “posh” Liverpudlian not the broad type that people think of.

I belive in you in what you say because I'm not goodd enough to put words on some english accent... Thanks, very interresting. In France, ours régional accent tend to disappear, and because I like the movie of Pagnol with spécific accent of Provence, it's a shame....

Yes, I completely agree with you Sir. SSBE is a right term for this accent.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

Great minds think alike

@SansAppellation

Жыл бұрын

Or just Estuary English, which is what social linguists call it

You're great!!

I’m American, I remember the one time I visited London a few years ago I felt like everyone I met had their own personal accent, it was wild. I ran into some people that I knew were speaking English but I had no idea what they were saying lol

As you say accents are a regional thing rather than a language feature. However many organisations who push English as a second language do sell the scent thing. But as I say to my students, with the accent goes the language, meaning people from a region use a good deal of vocabulary and structures specific to that region.

in Serbia we have variation in accents from town to town. I live now in a city 20 miles from my hometown and although it is same region of country the accent is very different. same goes for other towns and cities even in some cases villages

A fabulous explanation of the history of RP.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it.

In Australia you can sometimes tell a person's social background or place of birth from their accent, but that only goes so far. Some of our most educated ppl have very broad accents (e.g. former Prime Minister Bob Hawke who was a Rhodes Scholar). Another former PM, Malcolm Turnbull, sounds quite posh but grew up in modest circumstances. Re: location, it's often said that ppl in regional and northern Australia have a broad accent, but I heard some middle class accents while I lived up north, and often hear broad accents here down south.

@magmalin

2 жыл бұрын

I grew up in Perth, WA, in the 60ies. Hardly ever remember anyone speaking with a broad Australian accent in those days. Most people spoke what is called standard English. Of course there were some migrant children from the UK at the schools I attended who had a slight northern, scottish or irish touch in their way of speaking, I'm quite aquainted with the different UK dialects. I have been living on the European continent for some decades now but every time I visited the UK people always asked me if I was from the south of England ;). What really sounds strange to me though is the way GIdeon pronounces the word version as ver"sh"ion.

Personally, I prefer the term SSBE and I will use it from now on🧡

Great video! I know you gave a full explanation for this but why not shorten the name to "Standard English" if we agree that diversity is brilliant but there can only be 1 standard? Learning the so called RP has helped me a lot improve my comprehension 🙏🏼 I'll never sound native to Oxford nor any other UK location but I've noticed how clearer I sound to natives than before. I think that's why standards (should) exist for, for helping bring people together and not for differentiating them 😀

@ougadougou9

Жыл бұрын

The problem is that the accent is very definitely Southern. In London it identifies you as middle class, it doesn't suggest you come from outside the area. Whereas an SSBE accent used in Manchester (that's me, by the way) identifies you immediately as middle class AND from outside the area - that's regardless of class or education. It isn't a normal accent for native speakers, except in the South-East of England. Using the term "Standard English" would, I think, be taken to mean the English spoken by educated people elsewhere in Britain was somehow inferior. (We also need to distinguish between "Standard British English" and "Standard American English", so you can't drop the "B" either.)

@irenejohnston6802

Жыл бұрын

True. I'm from Liverpool. A Lancashire lass. Pre 1970s Merseyside.Age 82. I speak grammatical English in order to make a sentence make sense. Yet my 'tone' is northern although not v "Scouse" I'm told. A term I didn't hear growing up in South LPL, Woolton. Yet the media wld call me a Scouser. We can distinguish v offen(often) which district a person comes from.

@realDunalTrimp

2 ай бұрын

Because Standard English implies it's spoken as the standard accent anywhere in the world where English is spoken.

great video

Love your show! Hollywood has been disagreeing with the notion that SSBE is the “standard” version of English for a century now. As an American who has traveled the world with an accent very similar to standard Hollywood English (along with 100+ million others), I am confident Hollywood has won! And, with some exceptions, many lower class Americans and Canadians speak exactly the same as the very rich.

Intresting

I was intrigued by your comment about diversity of accents in the UK. We have a lot of diversity in accents here in the USA. For example, I grew up in the Detroit area. Just across the Detroit River is Windsor Canada. 800 meters of water separating the two cities yet there’s a very noticeable speech patois in Windsor versus Detroit. And then if you travel to Michigans upper peninsula, people from that area have a very distinct way of speaking. Then compare NYC to Boston. Yikes!

"... RP , I love you from the bottom, of my pencil case I love you in the songs, I write and sing Love you because, you put me in my rightful place And I love the accent , that you bring RP, never RP I'll sing you songs till you're asleep When you've gone upstairs I'll creep And write it all down, down, down, down Oh Standard Southern British English, I wrote so many songs about you, but … I forget your name, I forget your name... " Song “Song for Whoever” by The Beautiful South

Positive energy is in your face bruh

In Italy there's the same kind of variety

ChatGPT Received Pronunciation (RP) is a form of British English that is widely considered as the standard accent of the English language. It is associated with the upper classes and has its roots in the speech of the southeast of England, particularly in and around London. RP is known for its distinctive pronunciation, including short vowels, crisp consonants, and a neutral tone. It is often used as a reference accent in teaching English as a second language and in speech and drama.

He is right about Liverpool and Manchester. But it's even more diverse than that. I live in Manchester and I can tell from your accent if you're from north of the city centre or south. By the way, I went to Leeds University too. You can tell people from Leeds by the very distinctive way they pronounce the word 'two'.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

I hear there is a lot of accent diversity in Manchester though I've never lived there. Glad to hear that you too went to the finest university in the country.

Even though I was aware of what RP refers to, I've always find the name a tad odd... especially the "received" part. I now know the reasons in detail, so thanks. This was a great video, minutes flew by. In the old days I would argue you deserve a TV show, but in 2022 you're quite well broadcasting here on KZread. Sidenote... even if feeling a bit tricked, I would totally eat that pizza. No hunger for me. aha

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

I loved your comment up until the bit about eating pineapple on pizza.

@emdiar6588

Жыл бұрын

@@LetThemTalkTV There are countless toppings in common use that have nothing to do with Italian cuisine, let alone specifically, Pizza, yet poor old pineapple seems to take all the hate. I put it down to group think and cultural memes. One thing I am absolutely convinced of, is that most people in the anti-pineapple lobby heard someone objecting to it one day and decided that was a band wagon they must ride in order to avoid seeming like a philistine. Perhaps some had even tried it, enjoyed it, but got push back from peers and joined in the mass, Emperor's-New-Clothes style cognitive self delusion. I have yet to hear a child object when presented with pineapple on a pizza. Many kids find it the best part, which suggests that the food snobbery it endures is little more than 'received wisdom' at some point. I wouldn't choose it for a pizza topping myself, but neither would I choose the equally incongruous shoarma meat, or chicken tikka, for that matter (both of which I enjoy in other dishes). What did poor old pineapple do to earn such unique disdain?

I've always thought (to the degree I thought about it at all) the R in RP referred to the elite-sounding accent used by the announcers in the early days of the BBC, when the whole family would gather round and listen to the waahless. The BBC broadcast all over the country, and beyond, so it was the pronunciation received by everybody. Of course, all those announcers had to learn that accent somewhere.

You won me over big time.

I think you're right, Gideon. "Standard Southern British English" makes more sense than "RP". I'm not a native speaker, so this makes it a little bit less complicated.

Good move! SSBE term is awesome..

I’m working on my swedish accent. Olof Palme is my pronunciation role model.

I am from Oxford, though I am state school educated, and rp usually matches up with my language regardless of where I look online, however the type of rp sometimes changes with different additions, uk, posh, modern, etc. it’s rather confusing

If you want us all to agree on a standard name you couldn’t start with a worse concept than including Southern in the title. As a Northerner I would argue that as few people in the South speak RP as speak it in the North, so “Standard British English” seems far more appropriate.

My native accent is rather neutral. When I moved to Småland, i didn’t always understand the locals, but I quickly got the hang of it. Accent isn’t much of a class thing here, anymore. But new swedish accents are imported. I don’t know about them. Maybe they are?

Can we have a cheer for the East Anglian accent? There is one, though I did not know this until I worked around Cambridge (and not at the University). Distinctive is that words like new are pronounced noo. Not surprising to Americans maybe, but you also hear moosic for music and compooter for computer. I swear this is true.

@Sauvageonne

2 жыл бұрын

I believe you on that, even if I've not heard it myself. Feels like the accent changes every 20 miles in the UK. London is the only city I know that has geographic accents. I know some people talk about a Brooklyn accent but I'm not sure it's as distinctive as the East End accent. And between Manchester and Liverpool, it's just a 30-minute drive on the M62 and boy, they do sound different! Between Manchester and Salford, I hear the difference. Between Birmingham and Walsall, I also hear it. Between Bristol and Bath... Then you have individuals, like Nigella Lawson, that just make up their own pronunciations. That is just fascinating!

Another lovely one ,Gideon. The only point on which I tend to disagree with you is that your London accent is 'slight' :-)

I will start using SSB to describe RP from now on if that will help.

En mi país también puedes identificar la clase social de alguien a través de su acento...

I feel this on a spiritual level

In Germany we also have a multitude of (regional) accents. On the equivalent to the BBC news, the Tagesschau, the pronunciation is still very neutral, standard German.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

I don't speak German but I read that that is the accent from around Hannover. Is that correct?

@HolgerJakobs

2 жыл бұрын

@@LetThemTalkTV Yes, the Hannover accent is regarded as standard German.

@stephenarbon2227

Жыл бұрын

I remember once while traveling, two women were speaking English and I commented on them both seeming to have a German accent. One replied, that she was from the Freisland in the far north and her friend was from southern Bavaria, and they had so much trouble understanding each other's German, they used English.

@HolgerJakobs

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenarbon2227 In Friesland (Ostfriesland) they speak a dialect close to Dutch.

back in the day, when I started learning English, I heard the term rp when I was leaning international phonetic alphabet.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sure you've made progress since then

I love regional accents but I haven't got one, I'm an RP speaker. Which on the whole has more advantages than disadvantages. I think you are right about the East Midlands. I've heard a man claim he had no accent, because he was from Peterborough. Which was true. The trouble with IPA is that it's totally prescriptive. It sets out one pronunciation only or at best, standard British and standard American. Besides being hard to remember. I've never bothered to learn it. I really like the system in Chambers' dictionary, which is called respelling. It's easier to remember and it allows you to choose an interpretation in keeping with your own speech. Here is a joke a friend once played on me. He wrote down the words AIR, HAIR, LAIR and asked me to read them out. I did this and he said (in a posh way) .... hello yourself.

@pwmiles56

2 жыл бұрын

@Real Aiglon Sure, globally I have got the southern UK standard accent, whatever, from both upbringing and education. It's just in England it doesn't count as regional. In the US there is "general American" . Thought of as a non-accent. Same same

@SansAppellation

Жыл бұрын

@@pwmiles56 Do you have Estuary English accent? Or do you have an R.P. accent? Estuary English = the modern standard English (the middle-class, and centred on London) R.P. = the upper class accent, you would have Received this Pronunciation at public school or Oxbridge. Unless you are part of the aristocracy, in which case it is just your accent.

@pwmiles56

Жыл бұрын

@@SansAppellation Estuary English is something like Cockney and is considered lower to lower-middle class. I am middle-middle class (that was the saying in my family). I speak RP or BBC English, which is common across the UK for those who think themselves educated. My school wasn't posh at all, it had a working class intake with a sprinkling of middle-middle, and there were both RP and Estuary speakers. Other regional accents are heard in the educated middle-middle class, e.g. Yorkshire, but not so much Estuary. The upper classes and the public school-educated talk "marked RP" i.e. Queen- or Boris-speak.

Reading comments from Germany and Italy, I'm reminded of something I was told on a camping trip in Germany long ago: wir sind nun Gemeinschaft (we are now a community). The opposite to Gemeinschaft is Gesellschaft, society. England is the country of Gesellschaft. The divisions are horizontal, not vertical. I.e. allegiance to one's social class is stronger than to one's locality. The RP phenomenon reflects this. This is why it will never give way to SSBE or any such thing, I'm afraid

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

It's an interesting way to look at society. I agree that, on the whole, the class bonds are stronger than regional bonds in the UK.

@Wolfgang3418

Жыл бұрын

'Wir sind nun eine Gemeinschaft' it would rather be. But this left aside what made you think, that Gemeinschaft is the opposite to Gesellschaft? To my thinking your camping ground Gemeinschaft was something like a 'Verein', which translates as 'society' ;-) or 'club', a part of Gesellschaft and this is, as you said, a horizontal division. Whereas 'social class' and 'locality' in my opinion are vertical divisions. Seems to be complicated ...

I lived in the middle of Scotland with a Scottish family who spoke U language, proper English, they didn't have an accent, OF COURSE ! 😄😀😆 Love, from Olivos, Buenos Aires, Argentina🇦🇷🇬🇧

I've just come across this video, and agree with almost everything in it, with one exception. I think "southern" is a big mistake. There is general agreement that there has to be a single standard and that it should be regionally neutral. Calling it "southern" creates at least two problems. One of these can easily be seen on KZread, where certain teachers with mild southern English accents are claiming that their accent is "modern RP". It isn't (at least, not yet), but calling the standard pronunciation "southern" gives them an excuse to say it is. The other problem is simply that nothing called southern will ever be accepted as standard in the north.

U look pretty clear on my OnePlus phone dan another iPhone I hv, similarly RP sounds pretty nice instead of new SSBE! Let's update everything except renaming. I know u r nt gng to lyk it.

Hi Gideon, how long have you been living in France now? Are you struggling not to aquire a french accent? A friend of mine here in Germany is quite depressed about her light german accent after 20 or so years. In the UK she has been praised for her good english...

i wish to have some kind of cambridge dictionary but with some of the northern accents

Only in the Americas there's one English throughout vast territories, from Alaska down to Tierra del Fuego. And the same happens regarding Spanish and French. Accents are different and yes, you can tell somebody's social class by his/her speech. Still, the wonder is that you can sail from Ushuaia up to Yukon using American English and Latinamerican Spanish, or Iberian Spanish.

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I'll remember that next time I sail from Ushuaia to Yukon

@aguilmc1

11 ай бұрын

Argentina received an important number of British and Irish immigrants thorough different migratory waves between 1840 and 1950. This is why it´s very usual that in Argentina there are British/Irish descended inhabitants who became teachers teaching British English.

Where I grew up in Utah in the U.S., the accent was the most acceptable accent. A lot of new caster would actually spend some ime there to learn that accent because it is the easiest to understand here in America. If you are going to be on the news then you need to be understood. Anyway, great video. I love your channel.

@garrick3727

Жыл бұрын

I had a friend from Wyoming who made the same claim. I guess it's that area. I think the big difference is that accent is relatively subtle, it is kind of "middle American", and I don't mean geographically, I mean it's the shortest average distance to every other accent, which makes it highly acceptable. Meanwhile, in the UK, back when BBC presenters were all strongly RP, it was weird because almost no-one talks like that. It wasn't in the middle, it was super elitist, like everyone must sound like the 7th Earl of Devonshire.

I guess the standard spanish pronunciation ins Spain is castillan the accent of a region where spanish was originated... And as any standard is also the pronunciation any educated person anywhere else in Spain would use. As you also said nowadays regional accents (such as Andalusian, murcian, etc..) are more present in media and in general

The even sadder fact is that we have never had a Prime Minister that went to a State school. The glass ceiling is as solid as ever. Having grown up with a distinct accent but having worked/lived all over mainland Britain I have amended how I speak for the sake of clarity, picking up tonation and rhythm from different places without being distinctively from one or the other (unless I get drunk). Going back pre-WWII it was probably called a 'Board of Trade' accent, so you could be understood by a ship's stoker from Newcastle and also by a Senegalese spice trader. These days I'd probably call it 'Common English'. Only 40 odd accents .... I used to be able to tell whether someone was an Everton or a Liverpool supporter just from how they spoke. I'm sure you'd be able to tell a Spurs fan from a Chelsea fan easily enough without mentioning football.

It's the same everywhere. Every region of every country has its own regional accent. But media and mobility cause them to erode so over time they standardize.

I've definitely heard several northern speakers that speak in an RP-esque manne without strong regional features besides not using the put/putt split or the trap/bath split. Might one call this SNBE (Standard Northern British English)?

Good summary, but can't say I see the issue. There are still a fair number of Oxbridge students from all across the UK who Receive this Pronunciation or accent, sadly displacing their own.

Hmm, so, on one hand, my friend from Lancashire had no idea of what I was talking about when I said that I wanted to learn an RP accent (I'm german, btw). On the other hand it's easy enough to explain and it's a neutral term - Standard "Southern" British English kinda carries the notion that a southern accent is the default in Britain and I like to think that all British accents stand equally side by side.

@CaptainShiny5000

2 жыл бұрын

I had a chat with my Lancashire friend and he wasn't too hot on the idea of calling it Standard Southern British English at all when I asked him what the thought about it. I don't think this is a good idea, tbh.

When I've been to London and have needed to ask for directions and have approached passerbyers and talked to them, politely, using a perfect standard pronunciation, to my dismay I've found that most of them do not understand English and aren't even Brittons. Being extant, so many English dialects out there, there is an urge having a standard pronunciation that every speaker can understand. Whenever a person talks, inevitably is making a statement about his provenance, his education or lack of, his social and economic standing, her age or health. The way one talks is unconscious and very ingrained and gives away much information about the speaker and reveals much about that person. It is very difficult trying to fake a speech which does not correspond. There may be a standard English pronunciation, but there is much more beyond mere pronunciation and this can hardly be concealed and faked. The connotative nature of the chosen words and speech tell all there is to know to the keen sleuth observer.

The number of dialects in England is impressive, but I dare say that we have even more dialects in Norway (approx. 150 + countless variations). Here, almost every town and village usually has its own dialect. There are small variations from area to area, but often with surprisingly large differences over short distances. We do not have a standard spoken Norwegian, but we do have two written standards of Norwegian. These of course have similarities, but are also quite different in structure and grammar. This often causes confusions and frustrations for people who want to learn Norwegian. The various dialects normally give no indication of the socio-economic background of the person speaking, but you can usually hear whether a person has a higher education or not in addition to which area of the country the person comes from. There is no standard for which dialect is considered correct to speak in public. Even in the finer social classes you hear dialects from all over Norway. In other words, we do not have a variant of RP (received pronunciation) in Norway, nor is it necessary. A paradox in Norway, however, is that it is almost impossible to credibly migrate to another dialect. For this, the dialects are too specific (historically, linguistically, socially, etc.). You will be exposed relatively quickly even if you have many years of training (residence in a place other than where you come from), but again this does not really matter socially today. On the other hand, Norwegian is not a world language, so in that way we have greater flexibility for local peculiarities, not least, rapid socio-economic changes in general as well as linked to norms in the language.

@herrbonk3635

11 ай бұрын

Sounds like a total disaster to me. Because you cannot express any subtle meanings or nuances when the listeners all have very different dialects. The language loses its precision.

@Hvitserk67

11 ай бұрын

@@herrbonk3635 Exactly, and this is also the biggest criticism directed at the special dialect situation in Norway. The challenge is that no one will give in and think that precisely their dialect is the finest (most respectable) and should be considered officially Norwegian. Unofficially, however, standard Bokmål is considered de facto official Norwegian. This is the linguistic framework for approx. 85% of the population in Norway. Bokmål is in practice Danish with a Norwegian pronunciation + a few purely Norwegian peculiarities.

As a foreigner who is working class, I think, farmers daughter, I speak with sort of a muddled rp accent, I think. I always liked all the dialects, but they don't come natural to me. So I don't use them. The problem comes when people assume my social class based on the ( muddled and unnatural, I admit) posh-ish accent I use.

14:29 I agree. I’d likely be outraged before such an offer. However, when I listen to your pizza parabels, I’m metaforically laughing my head off!

I agree with you but we have two letters against four. Impossible to change it in my opinion.

@irenejohnston6802

Жыл бұрын

SSBE is rather cumbersome it hardly slips off the tongue!

Here in New Zealand, we don't have anywhere near the diversity of regional accents that the UK does.

I use the terms ASE and AAVE (being American). That's American Standard English and African American Vernacular English. (I speak with a Minnesotan accent.) England is the only place I know of that doesn't name their regional dialects for the region where they're spoken. Scouse, Geordy, Cockney, Brummy, and Mancunian? I know the names usually have connections to the places, but how is someone supposed to get Mancunian from the name Manchester without first taking a course?

Could you tell me an efficient way to learn RP?

U r amazing professor

We had the same picture here in Russian Empire but after the revolution communists enforced working people to get educated and lose their accents, especially in cities. Now we have almost the same accent all over the large country and only in small villages people have their own accent

As a non-native speaker (German) I always thought that RP was that old snob aristocratic English (like here with the -ly/le sound), even stumbled upon the term 'Queen's English' as a "higher" form of RP. - But it's logical; here we e.g. have high-German pronunciation courses for upper managers coming from Swabia (no-one wants to listen to THAT). Edit: In school we were taught "Oxford English", even had the dictionary with the same name.

@qwertasdfg8828

9 ай бұрын

Boy, the both Swabia and Saxon dialects sound terrific! So the Leipzig Exhibition will never get the world status due to the terrific sounding of the local dialect throughout the whole town! That's practically none speaks the Standard German! The same meets the Switzerland German. No exhibitions, no cultural life, university education for internal needs only! Starting a course there, you won't be able to go further in Germany, as in Switzerland you got one score below for your Standard German!

Americans have regional accents. Once, American film stars used what was called "the Mid-Atlantic accent" which is the same accent FDR spoke. It was American posh. I speak with a Mid-Western accent. A northern Mid-Western accent. I have difficulties in spelling because my vowel sounds are not the bland accent of today's more scarce posh . . . people. The ones who wear blue jeans rather than suits.

Hehe I have a type of Montreal accent that is specific to Children of Southern European immigrants of the 1960s-1970s. I tried to deprogram my accent but it’s too far ingrained

It seems to be right what you're talking about, but I do like its old name(RP). I don't want to change that :(

@LetThemTalkTV

2 жыл бұрын

Old habits die hard.

I think 40 UK accents is a vast undercount! There's probably that many in Northern Ireland alone. At minimum, there's 8-10.