Why do you think Californian's crew failed to go to Titanic's aid?

@ThatSamuel24

2 жыл бұрын

There's still ice to worry about which would make it hard to get there

@Zipshysa

2 жыл бұрын

The Smithsonian's documentary a few years ago called Titanic's Final Mystery posited a pretty solid theory: a cold water mirage from the Labrador Current not only made the iceberg impossible to see until they practically hit it, but the Californian couldn't see anything that wasn't distorted by the mirage -- rockets, Morse lamps... they might not even have been able to tell it was the Titanic at all outside of the mirage bubble. The evidence presented in the documentary is pretty convincing, too. They used survivor testimony (everyone talked about how cold it suddenly became), visual distortions (the stars were very bright and "active," firefly-like artifacts near lamps) and they found this obscure source where a fishing ship was in the area illegally, but they took accurate temperature readings by the hour and there was a sharp drop at around the same time the survivors said there was. Captain Lord may have been an absolute terror to serve under, but he probably wasn't lying when he said he thought he was looking at a completely different ship that didn't fit the profile of the Titanic.

@georgethomas7814

2 жыл бұрын

@@mrplane4205 get him up again -- who hasn't been called when something didn't look right. It would of been simple -- get operator up -- hear distress message -- inform captain -- get underway. At least they could of done something

@AndyHappyGuy

2 жыл бұрын

In the end, they still came to assist after finding out that the Titanic had sank. They didn't just completely ignore Titanic. If they knew that those rockets were distress rockets, I'm sure they would've come to their aid sooner.

@Blu3_SK33

2 жыл бұрын

Cause titanic was a death ship!! Titanic was Designed 2 go down since day 1!

The Californian is a classic example of what I call the "Eh it's fine" affect. You keep seeing things wrong/unusual/out of sorts, but you just assume everything is fine and you're overthinking it. When in fact, something is really wrong. We see this all the time today from massive engineering disasters to our everyday lives.

@AndyHappyGuy

2 жыл бұрын

"Should we make this already extremely top heavy ship more heavy with extra lifeboats, AND fill it to its capacity of 2570? Yeah, it's fine."

@jmcrapo32

2 жыл бұрын

No, the Californian was waiting for colored rockets because it was supposed to be ready to rescue the passengers and crew of the “Titanic” after captain smith and his officers purposefully crashed the “Titanic” into an iceberg, which is also why they waited nearly an hour to sound alarm or do anything to begin distress operations, including evacuating passengers. Even when they did start evacuating they left life boats go half empty at first, and only begun filling them when the ship began to notably sink as if they anticipated someone else to come along and save them. Everyone involved in this insurance fraud plot is now burning in hell for the murders of over 1500 innocent passengers and crew that died in that disaster.

@michaela.mcgonigle6624

2 жыл бұрын

@@jmcrapo32 how long did it take you to come up with that one?

@strangeluck

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's called normalization bias. Captain of the Californian really blew it.

@randomrazr

2 жыл бұрын

@@jmcrapo32 wut

This may be a biased hindsight, but I feel like if im seeing rockets from a ship that appears to be leaning some way in the water. I'd wake up the wireless operator to at least listen in and see if there is a distress call

@starrsmith3810

2 жыл бұрын

Even I think they should have woken him up sooner and I’m fairer towards the Californian then most people.

@williamcarter1993

2 жыл бұрын

it is hindsight. rockets could get fired off for any reason, not just distress. Also, with the night being so dark, you wouldn't be able to see the list of a ship. So, if anything, you'd have seen a big liner on a maiden voyage and probably assumed that they were celebrating for the passengers.

@flametitan100

2 жыл бұрын

​@@williamcarter1993 Rockets don't get fired off for "any reason." These aren't cruise ships; they're immigrant ships that double as mail and cargo delivery, in an age when the oceans were incredibly busy with traffic. Company signals could be fired off for the purposes of identification and communication, _but_ these were highly standardised and regular as to be unmistakable from distress signals. Now, they might not indicate that the ship was _sinking,_ per se. They might be saying something as simple as "Engines failed; need towing;" situations where you'd need assistance of some kind, but not necessarily a full on rescue and evacuation. Either way, if they could not identify if they were company signals or not, it's pretty negligent to not at least try to radio the other ship and assess the situation.

@nathanbond8165

2 жыл бұрын

@@flametitan100 hello I can shed some light into the rocket problem recently they actually found unused rockets at the Titanic wreck site and contrary to James Cameron's own movie and popular belief that they were firing white distress rockets by the way at the time White Rocket syndicated distress we now know that Titanic was firing the wrong color Rockets buy eyewitness testimony on the Californian the proper interval for a distress rocket is to fire one white rocket every minute now we know from testimony of the officers aboard the Californian that Titanic was not following Maritime protocol by firing a rocket every 1 minute and they were using the wrong color rocket so it is very easy to see how the crew on the Californian would have thought that Titanic was having a celebration or using company signal Rockets instead of the international distress White Rocket in a 2012 documentary featuring James Cameron pigmented that they used white distress rockets in his movie but we now know that that was not the color Rockets Titanic actually was using that night so again it is blunder and screw up by the crew of the Titanic that exacerbated This Disaster

@nathanbond8165

2 жыл бұрын

@@flametitan100 I'm sorry but you're just wrong this is another myth that's grown from inaccurate movies and propaganda from the White Star Line to cover their ass we now know from the Rockets found in the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean they were not white Rockets they were multicolored Starburst Rockets James Cameron admitted that he used the wrong color Rockets it is movies in 1912a distress rocket was a white Starburst rocket to be fired at exactly one minute intervals that would signify a ship in distress based on testimony and now that we know they were using multicolored rocket Titanic screw did not follow Maritime protocol which added to further confusion aboard the Californian now we also know that the Californian did eventually try to communicate with the Titanic with the Morris lap but the problem is is that the distance between the ships Morris lamps are only effective within a 15-mile radius the distance of the ships must have been greater than 15 miles because they couldn't read each other's Morris lamps the Morris lap signals were garbled and they couldn't make out each other's codes which further proves that the Californian was much further away from the Titanic than people want to believe you have to remember that even before the passengers got off the Carpathia in New York City lies Spin and propaganda by the White Star Line and the British government had begun to cover up the disaster as not to shake the faith and confidence of the public in traveling on their ships two almost immediately lies and half-truths and stories started about the Titanic disaster so that's the problem and those lies and half-truths have existed and persisted for nearly 100 years but now the truth is finally coming out because we have discovered so much more forensic and archaeological evidence at the wreck site that disproves all perjured and lies that of testimony that was given in the board of inquiry trials after the sinking in 1912 to be frank Charles lightoller and other surviving officers lied and perjured themselves in the board of inquiry at the behest White Star Line company because they wanted to continue to have a career with the company as most of them did go on to have long and distinguished careers

fun fact: you can actually see the Californian in Titanic 1997. Cameron left it in a single shot as a single pixel light on the horizon just so people wouldn't say he forgot about it.

@astrinymris9953

2 жыл бұрын

There was also a deleted scene of the interchange between Cyril Evans and Jack Phillips. I wish they'd left it in, but I realize that the movie was already hella long.

@krogdog

Жыл бұрын

Is it right after Molly Brown says: “Now there’s something you don’t see every day” ? I’ve watched the movie a few times looking at that spot and I still don’t see it 🤷‍♂️

@madwelder9768

Жыл бұрын

@@krogdog yea its really there its just a flicker it's hard to see just a flash or 2

@meganalguire1238

Жыл бұрын

Do you know the time stamp in the movie where you can see the Californian?

@SamirJzVFX

Жыл бұрын

@@meganalguire1238 .

It's INSANE to think there was a ship within visual range during all that...

@yirmiyahu7265

10 ай бұрын

Nakakapanghinayang.

@kathythompson2434

10 ай бұрын

It seems ridiculous to think the distress rockets were perhaps company signals. To who? They were too far away from the company.

@MatteoRamaccioni84

8 ай бұрын

Well they could only see the masts lights not the full ship

@scabbycatcat4202

4 ай бұрын

@@MatteoRamaccioni84 Well they could see enough to comment- "she looks a bit awkward out of the water doesn't she" ? That is the most damning evidence of all. Those that have tried to exonerate Capt.Lord need look no further than the testimony given at Lord Mersey's enquiry.

@MatteoRamaccioni84

4 ай бұрын

@@scabbycatcat4202 i'm not trying to defend Lord, i'm just basing it on true and documented facts, that phrase was never said. We know that she was about 10 Miles away, from that distance the earth curvature and the cold water mirage can distort light and make it not visible. They could only see the mast lights. The morse signals were also distorted so they tought it was a mast light flickering.

How you can clearly see rockets being fired from another ship and see a large chunk of that ship listing with your own eyes yet fail to take action is beyond me.

@misterwhipple2870

3 ай бұрын

They brought that out at the trial, and it was still white-washed. The prosecutor did his damnest to string up the deck officers and the captain for it, but he failed.

@erichinansen4238

3 ай бұрын

Everyone knows what white flares , rockets mean at night and at sea ....DISTRESS ....CQD CQD ( __ .__ . __ __ . __ __ .. )/// It's a CQD old man , come quickly !!! Marconi operator on Californian should have been advised when rockets were seen ....no excuses !!!! God rest their souls .

@misterwhipple2870

3 ай бұрын

@@erichinansen4238 Cyril Evans was asked that very question in court. He had to take an examination on that and other subjects to be licensed as a Marconi operator, but in court he squirmed out of that question over and over, and refused to give a straight answer.

@erichinansen4238

3 ай бұрын

@@misterwhipple2870 protecting his Captain ? ? Unlikely everyone on Titanic could have been saved by Californian but death toll would be lessened .

@misterwhipple2870

3 ай бұрын

@@erichinansen4238 Protecting his own ass. His Captain dug his own grave and he could not have been saved. Yes, I addressed that at best Captain Lord could have saved only a few hundred. Better than nothing.

"Gee. That ship looks like it's sinking! And they're firing flares!" "Alrighty, Goodnight!"

@dancingtrout6719

2 жыл бұрын

And in the Morning they Reacted By Throwing The Scrap Log Book Over Board...lol

@yanasimitchiyska9289

4 ай бұрын

😂

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

@@dancingtrout6719 I think that's no joking matter

@dancingtrout6719

3 күн бұрын

@@fmyoung how about this joke :: 3rd class werent allowed to go too Heaven

Can you imagine Stanley Lord’s “Oh I done fcked up” moment when he heard Titanic had foundered

I see both sides to be true. The crew of the Californian are scapegoats for the unrealistic expectation that they could have saved all 1,500 lives that night. There is no saying how long it could have taken them to reach Titanic, with the ship’s engines being off & navigating around a dangerous ice field. However, the sheer fact that the captain did not wake up the wireless operator after the first distress rocket were fired is inexcusable. A response to one of Titanic’s radio messages & a call to action would have easily made them heroes, similar to Carpathia’s crew. They didn’t have to reach Titanic that night, since that was not a guarantee (given a lack of definitive time). But simply waking up the wireless operator & answering the rescue call would have been enough. Instead, this ship, it’s crew and captain will forever be linked with infamy & one of history’s biggest what-ifs.

@mexicanofr7762

2 жыл бұрын

1496 died

@jackdale9831

2 жыл бұрын

"Engines" aren't boilers. Within 30 minutes, Lord could have been chugging-along, getting faster & faster up to 14 knots. If 19 miles away, Lord would've arrived, 30 minutes - an hour before the plunge. If not all, hundreds could've been saved. Hundreds would have already drowned in steerage & some of the lower cabins, long before the plunge. The Olympic {REAL, Titanic}, 500 miles away, still TRIED to sail to the wreck, as should have Lord & the Californian,--a practically empty-ship.

@mofoprada

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackdale9831 There is no definitive estimate on how long it would have taken the Californian to get the boilers & engines ready to sail after the ship stopped at night. There is no definitive knowledge of exactly how far was the Californian was from Titanic, even though 15-20 miles seems to be a reasonable distance. Assuming the Californian gets running in 30 minutes or so, they would have to navigate around the same ice field that doomed Titanic. No one knows if they would have run into issues on the way to rescue Titanic’s people. The Californian could not guarantee anything that night as far as having enough time to operate a rescue mission. However, they are responsible for not waking up the wireless operator to find out what was actually going on that night with the Titanic. If they wake up the wireless operator & go to Titanic’s aid, that would have been enough that night. Whether they make it in time to save people before Titanic sinks will forever be a guessing game…

@jp-legal

2 жыл бұрын

"There is no saying how long it could have taken them to reach Titanic, with the ship’s engines being off & navigating around a dangerous ice field" Really? Yet we can say it almost exactly, because that is what happened next morning. He got the mayday message at 5:30 and arrived 8:30 at the wrong position which the Titanic gave and he needed over half an our to come to the right site at about 9:00. You are able to do the math. So Lord needed 3.5 hours Cruising through ice field at night he would have been more careful, less fast as the next morning. So he would have needed at least 4 hours in dark night and icefield. So mayday call was at 0:15 . Californian would have lightened the steamer and come to rescue. 2:20 sinking of Titanic. 3:30 Carpathia arrives with Rostron. 4:15 Californian would have arrived, almost an hour later than Carpathia How long do you think you can swim in almost freezing water? Please do not state we cannot say when it is obvious that we can have educated guesses at least. It is embarrassing.

@jp-legal

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackdale9831 Why do you think they needed more than 3 hours the next day?

From what I can see, the Californian's crew absolutely should have at least tried to conduct a rescue operation, though their efforts very likely would have been futile.

@Urlocallordandsavior

2 жыл бұрын

Oftentimes, doing an action is still "commended" from my experiences.

@KLC6432

2 жыл бұрын

Agree - even well documented that the Olympic was 500 miles away and steamed towards her position.

@dancingtrout6719

2 жыл бұрын

@@Urlocallordandsavior agree but their action was too throw the scrap logbook over board...lol

@detcordxxxi

Жыл бұрын

The optics of at least pretending to assist would've definitely helped in the case of public opinion.

@GOLDTR1GGER

Жыл бұрын

There was a 2 hour window where California could have had enough time to come to the rescue. But yet the sister ship Britannic only took 55 minutes to sink and only 30 people were lost to the sea. I bet California was a staging post to rob the Titanic and explosives was charged in the high pressure of the boiler and engine rooms

The Californian actually was shown in James Cameron’s 1997 version, it’s really easy to miss, there’s a certain scene where the bow is already going under and you can actually see in the distance a very small blinking light on the horizon, it’s pretty cool

@gessicafarias8738

Жыл бұрын

Yes!

@whovianhistorybuff

Жыл бұрын

It's just after molly brown says "now there's something you don't see every day" you can spot the light just as titanic fires off rocket.

@tomcurda4203

4 ай бұрын

Not important.

@mohammedhisham2519

3 ай бұрын

On which side of the screen

Today is the 108th anniversary of the day the SS Californian sank in the Mediterranean Sea after she was torpedoed by a German U-Boat and she still hasn’t been found.

@robertolmstead1346

Ай бұрын

From what I read, her wreck is deeper than Titanic and a search would be extremely difficult at that depth.

Californian had stopped and shut down her engines for the night. It has been speculated that even if the crew had recognized the situation for what it was, by the time they were able to get up steam and safely navigate through the ice, they might not have arrived before Titanic sank. After the Titanic disaster the maritime rules were changed to require all ships to have at least one wireless operator on duty at all times. I'm glad that I didn't have to decide who was at fault.

@mariamatheson5300

10 ай бұрын

Good point.

10:09 I should note: The 58 mile distance for _Carpathia_ is based on Boxhall's CQD position, rather than the actual distance between the two ships. In reality, they were more like 43-45 miles apart.

@karlbark

2 жыл бұрын

At about 10km distance, they would have dipped out of sight from each other. (Below the horizon). -greetings, K from 🇮🇸

@TitanicHorseRacingLover

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. That is right.

@oilersridersbluejays

2 жыл бұрын

@karlbark greetings Icelander 🇮🇸 from a Canadian! 🇨🇦

@KB4QAA

2 жыл бұрын

@@karlbark That is not true. That figure is perhaps reasonable for two people each at the surface of the water. It is NOT true for watch officers on the bridges with elevations of +20 meters (60feet) or more looking at one another and looking at the others large ships. On this crystal clear night with lighted ships, the visible distance could easily approach 20 miles/45km. (retired sailor).

@flametitan100

2 жыл бұрын

Why are we talking about ship visibility on a comment about how the _Carpathia_ was closer than she estimated herself to be?

To the Californians defense, they did warn the Titanic about the ice. Twice.

People that defend Stanley Lord fail to realize that even if the ship that was shooting rockets wasn’t the Titanic, as some claim, the fact is that Stanley Lord still ignored SOME vessels distress signals. He didn’t even bother to ask his Marconi operator to wake up and see what was going on, because he didn’t want to take the chance on finding out that something really was wrong and having to act. He was a sociopath, and was only concerned about himself.

@mikhailiagacesa3406

2 ай бұрын

I'll have to inform the Californian's owners of your 'opinion'. lol.

@insane_rail_lover

Ай бұрын

@@mikhailiagacesa3406the Leyland Line? Sorry but they’re long gone

@andrewstackpool4911

Ай бұрын

Absolute rubbish! But par for the course from the ignorant. And you may be interested to know that he has been exonerated

@misterwhipple2870

Ай бұрын

@@andrewstackpool4911 So was O. J.

@Rodizime

23 күн бұрын

I'm pretty sure the SS Californian warned the Titanic about the nearby icefields in the area

Yeah, I agree it's very dubious as to whether they Californian could actually have saved the passengers who weren't in lifeboats, but it seems pretty clear that the Californian should have at least made more effort to figure out what was going on with the Titanic when they saw the rockets.

@supercomicgirl6425

Жыл бұрын

I agree. Should of woken that damn operator and find out what was going on with the ship they could see in the distance.

@Borninthe80s.

Жыл бұрын

@@supercomicgirl6425 how’s it the damn operator was he not allowed to go to sleep

@tomcurda4203

4 ай бұрын

That would have required an officer of the watch with initiative. Herbert Stone did not have it.@@supercomicgirl6425

@stephaniebrown1168

3 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@derekheeps1244

2 ай бұрын

Titanic took around two hours , or longer to sink . Californian could easily have steamed to meet her , in fact titanic could , had they made contact have steamed halfway to meet her , they could have hove to and transferred passengers directly . All entirely feasible .

This is a very well-made video. I especially liked the use of animations and ending this with Eternal Father, Strong to Save. The only thing I felt was missing was an explanation of what "company lights" are in this context (advertisement lights, communication rockets, anything other than distress signals?) for the uninformed. Because this is the internet, I'm sure you're going to be blasted by some for taking such a strong position on Captain Lord's actions, but I thought you argued your case well.

@flametitan100

2 жыл бұрын

They're private night signals, primarily for the purposes of identification and communication. For example, when a White Star Ship approached Cobh at night time and was in need of a pilot for harbour navigation, they would fire two green flares, a rocket throwing two green stars, and then two more flares. The big thing though is that they're regular patterns, and coloured as a rule. Titanic's distress signals were all white, though they weren't fired at the regularity the BOT suggested (around once a minute.) EDIT: Looking it up, the 1/minute rule only applied to guns or other explosives. For Rockets and Socket signals it merely had to be "short intervals."

@someonespadre

2 жыл бұрын

Anglican hymns are the best hymns

@jaynichols7932

Жыл бұрын

@@flametitan100 That's a great explanation regarding the rockets - never knew that

@AdamLattin-kb4dc

11 ай бұрын

Hmm

@johnarat9618

10 ай бұрын

@@flametitan100 Titanic's distress signals were white, yet the SS Californian did nothing. I am curious, what was the requirement for distress rocket colors back then?

Even if California could have magically gotten there before the final plunge, the logistics of getting hundreds of panicked people from a sinking ship (whose lifeboats were already launched or in unlaunchable positions), across deadly cold water, and up the side of another large ship, in the dark, with a very small crew, would make it a huge challenge.

@gromert

Жыл бұрын

Hugh challenge indeed. Based on the timeline, distances and speed, it seems unlikely that Californian could have arrived in time to save anyone not already in a lifeboat.

@PeggyR70

Жыл бұрын

But couldn't California have arrived before the ship sank?

@PeggyR70

Жыл бұрын

But it wouldn't have been that dark. California had lights and presumably a search light.

@zetandpeligaming

11 ай бұрын

You've also got to consider that the operation of getting people to lifeboats would be impacted if they were aware a ship was only 20 minutes away. They could send the boats towards its know location and Californian could launch its own boats to recover those in the water. Let's assume Californian and Carpathia could go the same speed. Carpathia was 58 miles away and got to the Titanic site In 4 hours. If Californian was 20 miles away that's 1hr and 20 minutes. If Californian had headed straight there then it would have an hour at the site. Long enough to launch its own lifeboats at least even with no-one in them. Some reports say it was 6 miles away, which means it would have taken about 30 minutes to get to the site of the Titanic, leaving almost 2 hours to ferry everyone off. The likelihood is everyone still on board in engine spaces etc would have died, but at least a good chunk of people that fell into the water ~1000 people could have been saved?

@Marky2216

11 ай бұрын

Factos

I just watched A Night to Remember last night, and most critically beforehand, I heard Captain Lord's side of the story. While I don't remember all the details, he adamantly defended to his dying days that there wasn't much he could have done anything about the situation. I assume he meant that his engines were shut off and it'd take some time to relight them, not to mention then having to navigate the icefield. What do I think? While the Californian was a small, slow ship built specifically for carrying cargo, with only a handful of crew, trapped in an icefield, and then coupled with the standards at the time for not having the Marconi on 24/7, I call sheer incompetence on their end. WHO, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, would stop a ship in the middle of the night, in an icefield in the middle of the ocean, to fire company signals? What kind of stupid idea is that? On top of that, they saw that the ship appeared to be listing, and they attempted to communicate with her to no avail. Why in the blazing hell would the obvious not pop in your mind to even suggest waking up the radio operator, and try to contact her via Morse code? Long story short, there were a lot of factors at play that night. It's impossible and wrong to place all the blame on the Californian, as there were a lot of things that they simply couldn't control. However, there were equally as many very simple things that they did have control over but didn't try. That's the important thing here: they could've at least tried.

@dancingtrout6719

2 жыл бұрын

they threw the scrap logbook over board

@annabellelee4535

Жыл бұрын

And gone down from hitting an iceberg? No, there was nothing they could do, there is doubt that they even saw the Titanic. No, the fate of the Titanic falls squarely on the shoulders of Cap't Smith.

@aj6954

Жыл бұрын

@@annabellelee4535 They didn`t see the Titanic, they couldn`t, they were 20 miles away. They had no idea what was going on, too far away to see any coloured rockets, yet Capt Lord spent the entire night enquiring about them. And all this wasn`t the fault of Smith, it goes much higher, although he could have refused the trip.

@annabellelee4535

Жыл бұрын

@@aj6954 Captain Smith sailed too fast in an ice field, why would Smith refuse the trip and Captain Lord was awakened with news that there was a signal rocket and he told the crew to signal to them and nothing happened.

@aj6954

Жыл бұрын

@@annabellelee4535 Lord was expecting to see coloured rockets, but the only ones seen by his crew were white and were fired from a ship that definitely was not Titanic. It was Smith`s final trip before retirement, his pension depended on him taking it, but with J P Morgan`s involvement, he would have been justified in walking away.

The one issue I see is that you said the "shut up" was because he was tired and stressed. In fact, most of these wireless operators went to school together and knew each other. The equipment was new so they were all relatively young. So they'd sometimes radio each other things that would be graphic for the time (I believe in a court case they were afraid to even read 'hell'). They tended to have shorthand for shut up, and all knew it was meant playfully because the wireless operator was busy. So it'd essentially be like if I was in sales and a friend called me to tell me the weather, while I was talking to several customers. I'd probably reply back on the phone "shut it, I'm trying to work here" as a joke, because I figure I can get the weather later. It was nothing malicious. Just two young adult men who were friends for a while and joked about in very vulgar ways during the time.

@Ometecuhtli

11 ай бұрын

The Marconi operator calling him "old man" is also a sign of familiarity and not him trying to mock him as his "father". The Olympic was also telling them to shut up when trying to establish communication with Titanic which they all understood, the sad thing is even if Phillips relayed the message to Smith it would've made little difference as ships at the time wouldn't slow down until they themselves spotted the ice field.

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

That's right I don't think Evans called it a day because of Jack Phillips's rude reply I think he was just plain tired

Say what you will defending or convicting Lord - the simple fact of the matter is - he didn't do enough. If they were serious about contacting the other ship, they would've woken up the radio operator, turned on the set and made contact. The fact that he, or the officers, or anybody else, never thought to do this, is really the crux of the matter. Everything else one might forgive or excuse. Not recognising the ship, not detecting the morse lamp, mistaking the distress rockets. But deliberately not making every effort to contact the other ship, which they suspected was in distress, by not bothering to wake up the wireless operator and turn on the set, is the one thing you can't excuse or ignore. Even if it made no difference to the outcome, they could at least have said that they made every effort to help. But they didn't. That's what gets me.

@abloogywoogywoo

2 жыл бұрын

The Senate that deemed his inaction reprehensible and ensured he would never captain another ship again, said, we don't question your failure to respond to the Titanic's distress and cries for help, its that you knowingly failed to respond to _someone's_ cry for help.

@theoddstrokesswimmingvideo1314

2 жыл бұрын

The problem is Californian did respond with morse lamp but neither Titanic nor Californian could make out each other's signals. Likewise Marconi wireless was a relatively new technology, if Lord was asleep and woken out of a sound sleep, off watch, by his officers and asked what to do, he would have gone back to standard operating procedure: visual signals. Whether it was because he was groggy and didn't remember the wireless, or he would have thought that his officers would have already tried wireless communication but it had failed ( as let's face it, the Marconi devices were finicky, as proven by Phillips and Bride spending most of April 13, 1912 fixing their machine on Titanic.) can be debated. But it would be the officer of the watch that would be ultimately responsible, especially if he did not disclose all attempts to contact the ship with the Captain. While Captain Lord took a brunt of the wrath of the US and British Inquiries, Stone and Grove should share more of the blame, especially if Lord was not given full disclosure. Indeed, Lord's reaction upon hearing the wireless messages seems to show that had he been aware of the full scope of the disaster Californian would have made an attempt at rescue. Indeed why Stone did not think to wake Evans is baffling nearly one hundred and ten years later. It seems the officers of the Californian fell back to tradition instead of utilizing all of the technology available to them.

@benwilson6145

2 жыл бұрын

You are wrong, Flares were not a distress signal at that time.

@abloogywoogywoo

2 жыл бұрын

@@benwilson6145 They were. Titanic was firing the wrong colour, because that's all they had. Nevertheless the crew of the Californian knew Lord was an unpleasant captain to work under and wouldn't wake him up for anything. Not even a ship that's firing flares or visibly listing on the horizon.

@abloogywoogywoo

2 жыл бұрын

@@theoddstrokesswimmingvideo1314 The crew of the Californian also made a grave error in not sending the messages to Titanic via a Master's Service Gram, which would force Jack Phillips to notify his captain immediately. The problem with Lord was, the man was a complete sociopath, he never showed during his career he once cared about the lives of his crew, his passengers or other ship's crews and passengers. It was reported his crew were fearful of waking him. Honestly I couldn't blame them. Being stuck on a ship, no being stuck at all, with a sociopath is NEVER a pleasant experience.

If the Californian had its boilers turned off and cold, it’s probable it would have taken considerable time to relight them. Assuming they see the distress rockets and then wake up the radio operator to ask what’s going on, then relight the boilers, then pick their way though the ice field carefully so as not to sink themselves, that would most likely have been a considerable amount of time. I don’t know enough about the timescales involved, but I suspect the Californian in that scenario would not have arrived quickly enough to save “all the passengers “. They probably would have made a difference, but considering the dark and the chaotic nature of a sinking and the following rescue, I think there would likely still have been considerable loss of life.

@lucassb937

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking about that issue of the boilers. Certainly they wouldn't turn off all of them, in order to keep the heat of the ship I suppose... Relight the cold ones would sure take a lot of precious time. Then, considering the boilers that may still be on, could they produce enough speed for the Californian in order to arrive to the Titanic in time and make any difference?

@THOMistheshit

2 жыл бұрын

The boiler's most certainly were not off and cold. bringing a ships steam pressure up would be a process taking sometimes 2 days.

@nathanbond8165

2 жыл бұрын

They would keep the service boilers on but yeah to get enough steam pressure to run the engines would take 30 min minimum and yes the it was so dangerous that night in the ice field that's why they stopped for the night... do you know how dangerous it has to be for a ship to stop sailing? It's a big deal to stop a ship considering time schedules and contract performance and late delivery fees... so yeah

@nathanbond8165

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucassb937 no the two ships were farther away from each other than people think... they could not read each other's Morris lamps that have a max range of 15 miles so we know that they were at least 15 plus miles away probably more like 20 to 25 miles and fastest the Californian could have gone at night in a ice field is maybe 7 to 9 knots per hour plus the half hour to fire the boilers so she would have beat the carpathia by maybe 1 hour still too late save people out of the 28 degree water which kills in less than 15 minutes

@patrickhavice4541

2 жыл бұрын

The boilers we're absolutely not off, but in an "idle" configuration. This way you could keep essential functions like heat and light without keeping full steam pressure. If they had seen the first rockets, woken up the Marconi operator, got news of the sinking, it would likely have only taken 30 or so minutes to get enough steam to move the ship, and the steam would build pressure and therefore increase speed as they travelled. As for the ice, these ships were all equipped with the same rockets Titanic fired, which could light up the entire area around them for many seconds or minutes. Add that to the fact that the Californian was slower and smaller, meaning it could turn much faster than the lumbering Titanic, means that the ice field should only have been a moderate risk, with plenty of people watching. And what I've seen most reliably reported for distance was approximately 15-17 miles. The Morse lamps are only effective at 15mi. But the crew said that they saw it and recognized that it was flashing, which means they would have had to have been close to that range. 15mi is not far to travel, even back then in those slow ships. It's my opinion that, had the crew of the Californian acted with the same drive and motivation as the crew of the Carpathia, they could have arrived at Titanic in enough time before the final plunge to collect hundreds of people from the ship and from the water after the sinking.

A large part of the ship sticks out of the water "seems normal to me"

@Ometecuhtli

11 ай бұрын

"Queer" but I guess mom prohibited you from using that word.

They just didn’t believe it was possible that Titanic could sink just like the crew of Titanic who were going too fast for the conditions. Titanic was destined to sink without help.

That night things were very different, no GPS, cell phones. no voice communication of any kind. The wireless was like a "party line" from years ago with everyone trying to communicate over each other. When it comes to blaming the crew of the Califorian, the captain has sole reasonability. I think that Jack Phillips should take part of blame because Ice Warnings are a bit more important than passenger messages. Great video, nothing like good back stories.

@marksherrill9337

Жыл бұрын

Yes. The radio operator was not part of the titanic crew but was an independent organization. Is that true if all ships? Don’t know but I would think an ice warning could be or possibly not be important to a radio man depending on what he understands about ice.

@combatwombatcreations8569

Жыл бұрын

@@marksherrill9337 the Marconi men made their money based of the number of passenger messages they had sent. iceberg warnings didn’t make them any commission so they were often overlooked. Idk for sure but that’s my understanding also if u want to know more there is a great video by oceanliner designs about jack Phillips being “rude” to the Californian.

@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Жыл бұрын

Jack Philips did give the ice warnings to the captain. They had received lots of ice warnings before the Californian sent theirs. The reason he didn't share Californians warning is almost certainly because there was no need, Captain Smith was already very well aware of the ice field.

@Spright91

11 ай бұрын

There was a whole host of people to blame for the whole thing. The captain for going full steam knowing there were icebergs, the radio operator for ignoring the warning the governing bodies regulating lifeboats the officers of the californium.

It beeps, flashes, shoots very bright rockets, lists in the water and then just randomly disappears? And not one of the officers mentions to their captain that they are witnessing a ship sinking. I think the crew on the bridge of the Californian that night should have even been able to hear Titanic’s steam blow, as very loud noises travel extremly far on water. I agree that captain Lord was lazy to investigate the situation himself, but the crew should have also informed him about the list or simply express their honest view on this situation. It just isn’t good seamanship to just sit there and not expect the worst.

@dwlopez57

2 жыл бұрын

They didnt realize they were seeing a ship "sinking" a ship sailing over the horizon would appear to be going down. That's what they thought they saw. I think it's a reasonable assumption. So you cant blame them for not reacting to something they didnt know was happening

@tinyelephant1533

2 жыл бұрын

@@dwlopez57 They may not have known it was sinking right away, but they sure as hell knew things weren't exactly right, and should've been able to piece it all together. A large, stopped ship (sitting in about the same spot for hours) listing in the water, rockets being fired, and the knowledge that Titanic was already in the area should've given it away.

@jamie91995

2 жыл бұрын

@@tinyelephant1533 it was hard to see if the ship was actually listing because of the horizon. The rockets were not fired in the correct interval, for distress signals, and the Morse lamp and rockets were distorted by a mirage effect. All they would’ve seen is the lights of a ship in the distance, some flickering lights and what looks like rockets being fired at random.

@tinyelephant1533

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamie91995 They still should've been able to put that together. Even with the "all they would have seen" stuff, putting all of it together definitely can be interpreted as a ship in distress. One of the officers directly described the ship as looking "queer" in the water so they probably saw something was wrong with its positioning. The rockets, even if fired at random, coupled with the sudden stopping of the ship, and the "queerness" of it should have at the very least prompted them to wake up their Marconi operator.

@TheRafark

Жыл бұрын

Should of been charged.

They warned the Titanic that they (the Californian) was completely surrounded by ice, stuck in place, and shutting down for the night. Not only could they not have helped more than they did, if their warning had been heeded, there would've been no Titanic disaster.

@Borninthe80s.

Жыл бұрын

There wasn’t much they could do though they were stuck by the ice

@negaknivez4554

Жыл бұрын

I find it the titanic Marconi operators fault

@robloxdude7564

Жыл бұрын

@@negaknivez4554 how? he did nothing wrong!

@AdilAlsuhaim

Жыл бұрын

@@negaknivez4554 Jack Phillips fixed the radio, despite Marconi's company instructing operators not to fix it, and wait until they dock in New York.

@Bippe

Жыл бұрын

@@robloxdude7564 He (radio operator on Titanic) got an iceberg warning of the area Titanic were going into and did not pass it on to the officers on watch. Commander Lightoller of the Titanic said that if he only had gotten that message he would have slowed the ship down. He also thinks that Captain Smith might had stopped the ship all together until morning. So not giving the message to the officers was a big contribution to the sinking of the Titanic.

I blame Captain Smith for going all speed ahead in darkness in a known ice field

@pondking2801

3 ай бұрын

Under the conditions that normally prevailed at the time at that location, lookouts would routinely see icebergs about 30 minutes away giving plenty of time to maneuver. Speed was not an issue, nor would binoculars be used for an iceberg watch as the field of view was too narrow. Unaided vision is best to locate icebergs against the horizon. The real issue was the unusual atmospheric conditions resulting in a false horizon, so instead of the 30 minute warning they reasonably expected, the lookouts only noticed the iceberg just before the Titanic struck it. Note that there has been no other accident like it, even though many other ships transited ice fields at similar speeds in the decades before and after.

@erichinansen4238

3 ай бұрын

Criminally irresponsble ...they had ample warning with Morse messages . I believe that Jack Phillips .Marconi operator of Titanic ...felt some responsibility for concentrating on passenger telegrams to the extent that he & Bride did ....buuuut they did repair the system...allowing their signal to travel hundreds of miles. CQD ...the morse messages was how they earned their wages btw. ....God rest those two brave lads !!

@derekheeps1244

2 ай бұрын

It was standard procedure back then

@ajbhuiyan4589

Ай бұрын

Bruce Ismay actually talked to Captain Smith into lighting the last boiler so they could reach New York a day early and the ship picked up speed of 25 knots

@tomilehtsaar

Ай бұрын

@@ajbhuiyan4589 not true, titanics 1st boiler room wasnt even used, debunking any record breaking theory

When Captain Lord woke up at 4:30am and realized what happened, he ordered the Californian to head to the scene to assist. But they didn't arrive on scene until 8:30am. So that would lead me to believe that the time it took the Californian to get her steam up, start her engines, and sail to the Titanic's position, was roughly four hours as well. Let's shave an hour off to account for the sluggish reaction and lack of urgency due to their lingering normalcy bias. That's still too late for the Californian to have saved anyone. Had Lord woken up at midnight after being told about Titanic's distress call, and taken immediate action to get the steam up and engines back on line and sail full speed to the Titanic's position, he would have arrived at around 3:30am. Still too late to save anyone not in a lifeboat. Regardless of the actions Lord and the crew of the Californian took that night, they still would've just been spectators.

@DocHorror666

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think anyone really disputes that Californian couldn't have saved everyone, it couldn't have taken 2000+ people. However the issue people have Lord is that he literally did nothing.

@Unownshipper

2 жыл бұрын

I think that's probably true, and by the laws and (admittedly lax) policies of the time, one could hardly call them guilty of anything. The only real difference is how history would remember the crew. Had they rushed to the scene as described, they'd be remembered as heroic as the Carpathia and its crew instead of with frustration and borderline contempt.

@detcordxxxi

2 жыл бұрын

@@DocHorror666 Granted. But we have the hindsight of over 100 years later. If Lord had sent a message to Titanic saying, "We are building our steam up and re-starting the engines and will be underway as fast as possible," he wouldn't have been so demonized.

@desireegrisham3892

2 жыл бұрын

Nonsense.

@detcordxxxi

2 жыл бұрын

@@desireegrisham3892 It's called an "opinion." o·pin·ion /əˈpinyən/ noun a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Excellent video! Perhaps a logical follow-up to could Californian have saved Titanic victims would be looking at other response and rescue efforts from the era, specifically the Republic in 1909.

@Ometecuhtli

11 ай бұрын

The lesson that should've prevented the Titanic disaster.

The weather conditions were a bit “off” that night. The water was at freezing temperature but the air was pretty warm, thus causing heavy refraction, making the sea look like an endless carpet almost reaching up the sky (a mirage). That’s one of the reasons the iceberg wasn’t spotted until it was too late and also a reason why California’s crew didn’t interpret the distress signals correctly. So even IF the ships could spot each other, the atmospheric condition could severely disturb the sightings.

@kaiserschlachtfelder

2 жыл бұрын

yes

@markg999

2 жыл бұрын

Yes...and Capt Smith still didn't think of maybe atleast slowing down Titanic down some in tough conditions to spot an iceberg.

@kaiserschlachtfelder

2 жыл бұрын

@@markg999 he wanted to impress the world by arriving a day early

@comusrules1244

2 жыл бұрын

@@markg999 I’ve been reading/watching Titanic info for years. This video has made me conclude the same thing. Captain Smith was completely careless. The captain is the ultimate authority on a ship. And ultimately responsible for its actions. He shamefully disregarded the sea conditions. Sad.

@detonater1348

Жыл бұрын

@@kaiserschlachtfelder it was not his idea but ismay who convinced him on speeding to impress the press and set a record. Still could've disagreed but yet again it was not his idea to speed.

While I agree with your ultimate conclusion that the Californian "may" have been able save some souls, I have an issue with your statement: "Stanley Lord's inaction stands in sharp contrast with the heroic actions of Captain Arthur Rostron of Carpathia" - Rostron was responding to a clear and unequivocal CQD (or SOS) from Titanic advising she was going down and requesting assistance. Lord had no such wireless message on which to act, so comparing their "actions" is a little unfair. Rostron got the 911 call from the victims of the house fire - Lord smelled a little smoke from down the block. That being said, I do think Lord was negligent for (at the very least) failing to wake up his wireless operator based on what some of his officers & crew had reported seeing. This was a very well done and interesting video - thanks!

Lord and his Officers certainly have some accountability for not recognizing Titanics plight but how soon they could have raised steam and plodded towards her is another question. This was an excellent video and I bow to your research. One point though, Cameron did in fact film much about California but had to cut it because of "Titanic"'s already long run time. However there is one very brief shot when her bow was down where California is seen, without comment. Can't cite the time frame off hand but it is mentioned in the comments on the DVD release. His original cut ran over 5 hours and Theater chains balked as that would only allow one showing per day including a needed intermission. Been waiting years for the full original cut but to no avail. Maybe someday.

@ShockTheSystem

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen a clip where you can see Californian's mast light but it's very difficult to spot even with the video's narrator telling you where exactly it is.

@annabellelee4535

Жыл бұрын

Actually there is doubt that the ship was the Titanic that the Californian saw, and that the Californian was the ship that the Titanic saw. Since each signaled the other, but without any response. The Californian thought it was a freighter that they saw turn and steam away, not a ocean liner.

@scabbycatcat4202

4 ай бұрын

It is very well documented that they kept steam on throughout the night in case of emergencies- such as that which happened.

Thank you for another great video. I find it very difficult to comment about something that happened in 1912 when communication was completely different to what we have today. Also, seamanship has evolved with better education, training, etc. Having watched your very informative and well researched video, my comment is that I think that they could have done better! Have a good day everyone from Sydney Australia.

Fantastic video as always. Never get tired of your content. Leave no stone unturned and keep these videos coming!

@TheGreatBigMove

2 жыл бұрын

Much appreciated!

Lord was scapegoated. HIs wireless officer did due diligence and was ignored. Titanic charged full speed into an ice field on a moonless night despite (almost in spite) of repeated ice warnings. Titanic did not carry enough lifeboats for her passengers and crew. Lord had stopped for the night. Had he decided to investigate he would have had to risk his own ship in the ice field traveling to Titanic's position. It was Monday morning quarterbacking to blame him when the fault lay fully on White Star and Captain Smith. If you're going to hold a dead man in contempt it should be Smith--who had also retired for the night.

@pearldragon6508

2 жыл бұрын

Monday morning quarterbacking? (Not from USA)

@longlakeshore

2 жыл бұрын

@@pearldragon6508 Most American football games are played on Sunday. On Mondays a lot of criticism and second guessing of what should have happened in games is debated.

@DominionSorcerer

2 жыл бұрын

The Titanic didn't go full speed into an ice field and Captain Smith took the Titanic a lot further south than the planned route because they'd been warned of ice along it.

@longlakeshore

2 жыл бұрын

@@DominionSorcerer Smith did not slow. He ignored ice warnings. Other ships in the area stopped for the ice. He didn't.

@DominionSorcerer

2 жыл бұрын

@@longlakeshore The Titanic wasn't going top speed, it went slower than usual. He didn't ignore ice warnings. The last and most important ice warning wasn't even given to him because the message wasn't labled as MSG.

Even if Californian's crew had reacted at first sign of trouble and proceeded at best speed in spite of the obvious danger, I think it highly unlikely they could have arrived before Titanic sank. That said, they sure ought to have tried.

@dancingtrout6719

2 жыл бұрын

well they did manage too throw the scrap log book over board ...lol

@Ometecuhtli

11 ай бұрын

About 2 hours in broad daylight, 2:30-3:00 under those conditions so unless you can last 1 hour in frigid cold waters you didn't stand a chance.

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

They ought to have tried yes according to int'l maritime law

A great book about this subject is The Titanic and the Indifferent Stranger by Dr. Paul Lee. Really goes in depth with charts/positions, atmospheric conditions and the possible locations of other ships around the icefields.

I think you forgot a very important point in this case. The captain of the Californian stopped the machines for a reason, and the crew of the Californian even told Titanic that reason, saying "we have stopped, because we are surrounded by icebergs, its to dangerous to go further in the night, at this point" ...That what their last message to Titanic meaned (they said it shorter, but thats what it meaned). Carpathia on the other hand was far more away from the icefield, and also their machines werent shut down. So even with the iceberg-warnings they got that night, they had reason to feel much more guilty to shut down the machines when they got clear signs that the Titanic is in danger. Again: the Californian felt incapable of moving for a reason. They were surrounded by icebergs. So its not only a question of time to start the machines again (which usually could mean hours, as far i read), but it was also more than dangerous. And with shut down engines, AND the awareness of beeing surrounded by an icefield in the middle of a night at newmoon, its much easier to deal with the bad feelings, than a captain of the Carpathia, who had fully running engines, and with far less ice sourrounding his ship. So its really hard to blame him. I come to the same conclusions as the investigators back then: maybe it could saved lifes - yes. But we cant say it for sure. Under those conditions its even more than possible, that Californian also would have needed help, if they striked an iceberg by trying to help the Titanic.

*sees a house burning Lord- ohh, they are having a bonfire.. -But i think i heard screams Lord-Ohh, thats nothing, they are probably excited.

It's ironic that both Leyland and White star line are both owned by international mercantile marine company.

@jackdale9831

2 жыл бұрын

JP Morgan owned Leyland and most of the other. No-one other than Morgan could arrange for a empty-ship except for a bale of 1500 jackets/sweaters in #2 hold to await the approach of the titanic REAL Olympic to be sunk next to it, except an ice-berg holed-it nearly 20 miles from its goal, where it would have suffered a coal-bunker explosion, & then sunk, Lord picking everybody up and being a Hero.

I recently watched a documentary about mirages on the ocean. The night the Titanic sank was coincidentally perfect conditions for nighttime mirages on the ocean. I now believe that the crew of the SS Californian may have gotten a bad rap by the judgment of history. I now believe that the mirages were so distorting in nature that the crew of the SS Californian likely couldn’t visually tell that the Titanic was in distress thanks to those mirages.

@jeffbenton6183

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting hypothesis. Thanks for posting a counterpoint to what was said in the video. I'm curious to see what the response to that claim would be. By the way, do you remember the name of the documentary? Some documentaries are very well-researched and avoid jumping to conclusions, while others are the complete opposite (i.e. Ancient Aliens). Most, of course, are somewhere in between.

@th8257

2 жыл бұрын

@@jeffbenton6183 this is the one in the link below - he makes a very good case that "super refraction" played a significant part in the disaster and the role the Californian played kzread.info/dash/bejne/h6yF2MujaLfapco.html

@erinburke9711

Жыл бұрын

It's called Titanic’s Final Mystery.

@Eltanin25

Жыл бұрын

@@erinburke9711 Yeah and there is also a book which is more detailed about it. The author is Tim Maltin and the book is called A very deceiving night.

@Eltanin25

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffbenton6183 This mirage theory is in fact very well researched, look up the book by Tim Maltin called A very deceiving night. He even found a ship log of a German ship which reported seeing such mirages some four days prior close to this area. It makes quite a lot of sense and could also explain, why the Titanic's lookouts saw the iceberg so late.

titanic: HELP US WE'RE SINKING! californian: eh, you're fine

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY

Жыл бұрын

Carpathia: We’re coming as quickly as possible! We’ll be there within four hours!

Such sheer incompetence by both Captains. One was overly confident, the other was uncaring and unattentive to anything out of the ordinary.

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

I know, Cpt Lord apparently didn't want to sacrifice his nice and toasty warm bunk also he thought he'd get off the hook at court by stating how "prudent" he was in laying stopped for the night while Cpt Smith chose to fling his ship through the ice. "It will take me about 15min to do this" he told reporters in Boston. That slap on Cpt Smith was to backfire on him

Best book I have read on this subject is Strangers on the Horizon by Samuel Halpern. Goes to great length to establish what the distance likely was from Titanic to Californian based on the visablity of certain lights and when they disapeared from view. His conclusion was that Californian was 12-14 miles away.

@jmcrapo32

2 жыл бұрын

This is assuming that the vessels that witnesses from the Californian and the Titanic claimed to see were each other when in fact both were looking at the Sampson which was an illegal sealing vessel operating between them, the Californian was 17-20 nautical miles away from the Titanic (Olympic). The Californian did not witness the sinking of the Titanic, by the time they finally arrived to the location it was already far below the surface.

@AndyHappyGuy

2 жыл бұрын

@@jmcrapo32 this is assuming that you're a person with no life, jealous of people more successful than you. Therefore, you cope by spreading rumours about people who are more successful than you, saying that they are murderers or want to hurt you.

@jmcrapo32

2 жыл бұрын

@@AndyHappyGuy the type who believes everything they are told by NEWS and the so called authorities. I call these types sheeple. There is more than enough evidence to suggest something suspicious about the entire affair. Maybe try thinking for yourself instead of letting yourself be manipulated. Trust no one and question everything.

@AndyHappyGuy

2 жыл бұрын

​@@jmcrapo32 first of all, you can't call us "sheep" since YOU follow the word of the people who started this fear mongering blindly. At least I don't listen to the news like it is law, you listen to your bull asses like they are your gods. second of all, do you know ANYTHING about the construction of Titanic? When Olympic was brought in for repairs, Titanic looked like THIS kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZoWi2cSMpLzJqdo.html Do you think they could fit out that ENTIRE thing, with no visible boat deck walls, no visible B-deck cabins, only one funnel and probably no engines and machinery in just 6 WEEKS? Don't tell me that they had 144 days, because they didn't, Olympic had to go out after 6 weeks, so they could only have 6 weeks to fit out "Titanic". Moreover, wouldn't you think that the people of Belfast would think that it was strange, when an empty hull suddenly became fully completed within 6 weeks, all during the time of Olympic's repairs? I wouldn't think so Mr. Crapo. In conclusion, you're wrong. Stop spreading this fear just because your jealous of the success of certain people. Have a good day, and have a horrible night.

@AndyHappyGuy

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, I suggest you watch the entirety of the video I linked in my comment, ( kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZoWi2cSMpLzJqdo.html ) you're so wrong that even CNN looks like a legitimate source.

one thing I've never heard while in this rabbit hole....how far did titanic travel after hitting ice berg? if not far is it really fair to ask california to venture into the ice field that just sunk another ship?

@mariamatheson5300

10 ай бұрын

Agree.

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

The Carpathia made it safely to the very same ice-infested area by means of a vastly increased number of lookouts

Captain Stanley Phillip Lord was awakened 3 times during the Titanic sinking to be informed about the distress rockets, but he just claimed that they were just being used for a celebration and didn’t even bother to have the wireless operator awakened to check on the radio messages until around sunrise.

In my view, the "Californian Affair" happened because of miscommunications between officers and the Captain. I certainly do not think Lord was "lazy." That is silly. Stone should have gone down to the wireless operator's room and woke him up. After all, Stone, the OOW, had the watch. Either he or Gibson, the Apprentice said that a ship would not fire rockets at sea for nothing, so why didn't they wake up the operator or make a stronger case to the Captain and INSIST he come and look. Lord should have come up to look. I definitely think the Californian officers are being scapegoated. No one would have ever HEARD of Captain Lord had Captain Smith had that beautiful liner crash into an iceberg. As for whether The Californian could have saved everyone, please, people have this fantasy of Lord sailing through the ice on a white stallion and saving everyone. First of all, the engines are cold. They have to turn them on. He has to plot out a course. It took him 2 1/2 hours to get to the site in the daylight. Look, the Californian's sin, so to speak, is NOT TRYING, which they should have tried. Lord made bad decisions, but he and his crew are not murderers and all. How many people could he have saved? It depends on when he got there. Transfering passengers from one ship to another is not as easy as people think it is, either.

I saw another pretty good video here on YT about Californian simple stating that there indeed could have been something "fishy" about its crew behaviour, but the main reason was they were actually on the other side of the ice field and simply were afraid to go through it in the dark and believed other ships are closer and respond quicker.

Can anyone confirm. I'd once heard that those firing rockets were because of maneuvering difficulties and for other ships to steer clear not for distress.

@flametitan100

2 жыл бұрын

Depends. There's a lot of different signal patterns, with the distress pattern being the most ambiguous, simply saying "a rocket or shell, , throwing stars of any colour or description, fired one at a time, at short intervals." Now, _how short is a short interval?_ We don't know. The Titanic Historical Society says that they should have been fired once a minute, and that the Californian failed to respond because they were fired at too long of intervals to correctly identify as distress signals. However, they're basing this off of the regulation of "A gun or other explosive signal fire at intervals of about a minute," which a separate classification of distress signal from the Signal Sockets the _Titanic_ carried in lieu of a cannon. In any case, rockets were not fired for no reason, even if not as a distress signal, and it was always in good practice to try to reach the ship and see what was going on if you couldn't identify the signal pattern.

@nathanbond8165

2 жыл бұрын

@@flametitan100 all of you people are ignoring the very reason why the damn California was in the ice field it was so dangerous to try and navigate the ice bill that's why they stopped Saline wasn't like these two ships were sailing side-by-side in a race the California had stopped because it was too dangerous to continue to go forward there for the mindset of the captain and the crew would have been the safety and preservation of their own ship first which is why they told the radio operator to warn all the ships in the area that they had stopped sailing because of the dangerous ice field that was Titanic's chance to save herself that final warning from the California that said hey old man we have stopped for the night because of the ice field that was Titanic's Saving Grace that apparently either never made it to the captain or he frequently disregarded when another ship tells you we have decided to no longer go forward because it's too dangerous and you keep moving at full speed it's your fault not their fault

@nathanbond8165

2 жыл бұрын

@@flametitan100 this seems to be something that no one understand how dangerous the situation was that night for a captain of a ship to order his ship to stop for the night is a very serious thing-ask any truck driver if your wheels are turning you're not earning!!! the amount of coal and Fuel and resources that you would burn while you sit there not moving on the open ocean is not to be taken lightly and for the captain of the Californian to decide to burn and waste Cole which by the way was in very short supply because of a coal strike back in Britain at this time means that it was extraordinary really dangerous that night and is also the reason why they sent out a warning to All Ships in the area that it was so dangerous that they could not continue selling and we're going to wait until the dawn so they could maneuver around the icebergs and yet the Titanic just kept plowing at full speed right into the same icefield almost as if it was on a kamikaze run anyway you slice it it was sheer arrogance and hubris of the captain and officers aboard Titanic to think that they would be able to see an iceberg big enough to harm the ship and they were wrong and 1500 people paid with their lives because of there hubris and lack of attention to safety

@dancingtrout6719

2 жыл бұрын

@@nathanbond8165 stop arguing in the morning they threw the scrap log book over board

Even just waking up the wireless operator to ask if they are okay would have been the bare minimum and they didn't do that.

@DANIELLE_BREANNA_LACY

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, mainly because they were just afraid of navigating that dense part of the iceberg field while it was still dark so they just waited until sunrise when it was too late to check on the radio messages.

You knew there was ice everywhere. You saw the morse lamp flickering from the ship. You saw multiple rockets fired from the ship. And you witnessed the same ship listing to one side. And you STILL didn't do anything???? Dude.....

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

Indeed indeed....

Californian stopped because it was surrounded by ice, notified Titanic (who should have done the same), and in turn told Californian to shut up. Up to the sinking a 24-hr radio watch was not mandated. Had Carpathia’s radio operator not bothered to put on his headset one last time before bed, he would have missed the SOS calls. Rockets at sea are not exclusively for signaling distress. There was another ship in the area. A few Titanic survivors mentioned seeing a sailing ship. Captain Lord has been unfairly crucified.

@reecehaire9124

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely correct. The sailing ship is just one of the other ships in the area that didn't bother helping

@raykyledecastro6083

11 ай бұрын

stop dickriding on a dead captain lmao

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

@@reecehaire9124 I hear recent research has indicated that the Samson was reported in port in Iceland shortly before the date of the Titanic's sinking which would make her presence on the scene impossible. But speculation about the possible presence of a third ship continues.

This is terrible, I didn't even know about this second ship being so close to Titanic until today 😢😢😢

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

I know eh and I hear they didn't come because they were surrounded by ice but then the Carpathia herself made it safely to the very same ice-infested area by means of a vastly increased number of lookouts and safely plucked all the survivors from the lifeboats

Insightful perspective, backed up by research and knowledge. Nice work.

I think the Californian was definitely negligent of its duty to assist a ship in distress. However, I don't think it would have made much difference. Titanic was barely able to launch its own lifeboats before the ship sank, so my thought is those people were probably going into the water whether there was another ship available or not.

What the Californian’s officers were watching on the horizon that night took them by surprise and was a little ambiguous. Strange, but not directly alarming. Only in hindsight the next morning did it dawn on them that they’d been witnessing the sinking of the Titanic.

@SeattlePioneer

Жыл бұрын

Hmmmm. I remember a vaguely similar situation when I was mountain climbing in the Olympic Mountains of Washington State in 1980. My partner and I were nearing the summit of a mountain when we heard a series of dull explosions in the distance. My best guess was that the US Navy was having some kind of gunnery exercise in Hood Canal, 10-15 miles away. When we got to the summit, it was a beautiful day. We could easily see Mt Baker 50 miles away, and Mt Rainier 40 miles away. We couldn't see Mt St Helens because there was an off kind of vertical clouds preventing us from seeing that peak. On our way down the trail later in the day, we encountered a person who told us Mt St Helens had exploded. That mountain was 60 miles away from us. Some times you just don't know, and your best guess is just plain wrong.

super video, thank you!

In my mind the one thing gets me every time someone talks about the Titanic and Californian. The last ice warning the Californian sent, and Titanic ignored it. The two ships were so close to each other that the signals were deafening. So, in my mind if I was the radio operator on Titanic and heard the last ice warning as loud as it was, I would have written it down and immediately contacted the bridge. Think about it, the louder the signal is the closer you are to the transmitting ship. Large ice field ahead and ships being so close to each other, I should take it seriously. Unfortunately, to me I blame the European maritime law regulators for the sinking. They had many chances to fix the loopholes and outdated regulations at the time but didn't.

@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Жыл бұрын

Jack Philips had already shared multiple ice warnings with the bridge. Captain Smith was well aware of the ice field and had posted extra outlooks to keep an eye out. It's exceedingly unlikely that yet another warning would have magically changed his mind about proceeding when all the previous warnings hadn't.

@Ometecuhtli

11 ай бұрын

Unfortunately that was much the case at the time, ships didn't usually stop until spotting ice themselves.

@littlemissy2883

10 ай бұрын

The reason the volume was turned up on the Titanic's radio system is so the operator could hear the signals coming from Cape race, as it was so far away, not because the two ships were close to each other,

Today is the 10th anniversary of the sinking of the Costa Concordia.

@archietheaxolotl1243

2 жыл бұрын

Ah, that fateful night.

@GageisGreat12

2 жыл бұрын

Yea. Saw on Wikipedia

@adamhauskins6407

2 жыл бұрын

I'll be damned it is

there is an earlier movie about the Titanic disaster called ' a night to remember' in which the Californian is mentioned, i think it was made circa 1958 based on the book of the same title which was printed in 1954. the author was a Walter Lord

Thought provoking and respectfully done

In addition to having seen the rockets and the officers thinking that the ship had a big side out of the water, Lord didn't do one simple thing: Wake the wireless officer to find out what's up. No amount of name-clearing by Lord apologists can condone his failure to do that.

@MrDaiseymay

2 жыл бұрын

JUST WATCH ''WAS THE TITANIC, SUNK ON PURPOSE'' and the Californias part, falls neatly into place. Go treat yourself--everybody.

@frankmarkovcijr5459

Жыл бұрын

Monday morning quarterbacking 110 years after the disaster lacks credibility.

Californian was a slow ship. It took her 1 month to complete her maiden voyage. She also had to get through the ice field to reach to Titanic. I'm unsure if she would have been able to save more lives.

@dancingtrout6719

2 жыл бұрын

he threw the scrap log book over board

@Eltanin25

Жыл бұрын

@@dancingtrout6719 Oh, read the inquiry transcripts! The first officer did it, because it was company policy. 1/O was responsible for rewriting the entries from scrapbook to logbook, the other officers then control it and sign it and the 1/O cut out the page from the scrapbook and destroyed it. That was normal every day. :-)

@Ometecuhtli

11 ай бұрын

Probably arrives at 2:30 am at the earliest, 3:45 am if distance is 17 miles away, only if they took immediate action after seeing Titanic's rockets (12:30 am) and after confirmation from wireless operator. There's also a strange parallel people try to draw with Carpathia steaming at full speed towards the sinking site but in the case of Californian it still had to plan its course to navigate an ice field and probably 6-7 knots is a more reasonable speed for a ship that never exceeded 12 in operation.

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

The Carpathia had to get through the ice too and she succeeded thanks to a vastly increased number of lookouts. That's what Lord could've done too in order to make it through. Cpt Lord always said his ship was 19mi away; Robert Ballard maintains she was only 10mi away; therefore, the Californian could've easily come to the stricken ship's assistance

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

@@dancingtrout6719 I know....

Nice video! Ty

There was a mirage effect on the ocean that night curving light around the horizon. It's the main theory of why the titanic hit the iceberg. They were seeing a calm sea on the false horizon while the icebergs they were passing close to were hidden from view. The point I'm making is we don't know how close the californian was from titanic

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

Cpt Lord always said his ship was 19mi away; Robert Ballard maintains she was only 10mi away at the most .

The first duty of a ships Captain is the safety of his ship and the welfare of his crew (and passengers). In stopping at the edge of the Ice-belt Captain Lord was acting as a Capt. should, furthermore, other shipping was alerted to the ice hazard. Titanic, having been warned chose to proceed, the recklessness of Capt. Smith stands in contrast to the better seamanship of Capt. Lord. (Note: most shipping lines had a standing instruction to their ships not to enter the Ice-belt at night, this why so many surrounding ships on either side of the ice-belt were stopped). The mad dash of the Carpathia although heroic was also desperate and reckless. Still, no one will dare gainsay the heroism of that rescue for fear of rebuke. However, the question must be asked; given the extremely dangerous conditions, what would the public and official sentiment have been had the Carpathia foundered. Had the Carpathia sunk we would now say this was evidence of more bad seamanship. If it had not been for the outrageous and vindictive behaviour of one particular US Senator who was hell-bent on vilifying Captain Lord, his reputation would not have been sullied, then or over subsequent years. Notes: The Marconi Wireless operators on ocean liners at that time were advertised to passengers as a service they could avail themselves of. Their principle function was to the passengers and not to the ship, the fact that the operator passed a message - ice warning - to the Bridge was a courtesy not a duty. Many things were changed in Maritime law after Titanic, wireless became 'ship first'. Life-boats became; one place for each soul on board etc. One thing not mentioned in this particular interpretation of this event, is the commonly held belief put about by the owners of Titanic that she was the first unsinkable ship. This may have led Capt. Smith to act the way his did, willing to suffer some damage in exchange for the Blue Riband, he surely would have won if he'd made it. It also played a part on the Bridge of the Californian. It is a matter of record that for the first hours the Watch crew and Officers thought the Titanic may have been setting off rockets as a celebration. She was after all unsinkable and they knew it, and by the time the seriousness of Titanic's condition became evident it was too late. To start her steam engines and to raise enough 'head of steam' combined with her slow speed would have seen her arrive late, if at all. The first duty of a ships Captain is the safety of his ship and the welfare of his crew (and passengers) this is the law of the sea. Rescue or assistance may be attempted but not at the peril of the aiding ship or vessel or her crew.

How could it be Californian's fault if they didn't know what was happening?

@jackdale9831

2 жыл бұрын

Because SOME of them KNEW the titanic {--REAL Olympic} was GOING to be Scuttled! With a bent keel, the REAL Olympic could NOT be Certified, which means it could NOT carry passengers, generating monie$ for White Star. Like ALL of us, with NO income from a ship that can no longer "earn its keep", White Star Lines would go Bankrupt, selling its assets --the REAL Titanic to, maybe, Cunard, its rival. Unfit for passengers, Olympic might have been sold abroad, broken-up, or used as a nearly 900' Barge, which would bring in very little revenue. The liners nearly Identical, they were "SWITCHED",--the Real Olympic-relabeled-the titanic, now on the bottom,--the REAL titanic, relabeled the Olympic, served, --flawlessly, until sold for scrapping in 1935. The titanic {Real Olympic} was a "dog" waiting to viciously "BITE" his Master, economically. By over-insuring the "Dog" with the cheaper insurance of a NEW ship, JP Morgan could save his company, White Star, put his Dog to "sleep", and establish "US-Dollar-imprisonment", via funding the FED. Was Morgan callously to kill his passengers? Absolutely NOT, the titanic'd be scuttled near the Californian,--all would be WELL, --All Saved. the "Dog" sent to its grave 2 1/2 miles down . Unfortunately, the "sinking-condition" arrived sooner than intended, the "Dog" Fatal-ly bite-ing 1500 of his passengers & crew. Sinking within sight of Lord's rescue-ship, the Craven-Coward Lord spurning even the chance to save some, Lord stealthily smacked Morgan in the Mouth, while Lord damaged his own career, through the inaction of Human Decency, on his part.

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

Cpt Lord knew what was going on he just didn't feel like giving up on his nice and toasty warm bunk

It’s silly to say that ALL 2,200 people would have survived if the Californian had made an effort to help, but it’s undeniable more could have been saved if she had.

Even if they took action and relit the boilers and steamed at full speed, they still wouldn’t have arrived on time, but its the fact that he did nothing that’s dissapointing, the “Eh, its fine” effect is a common thing in all humans. But they could have at least woken up the wireless operator to listen in just in case

@ 1:23, you say "Californian was eastbound....". No, she was *westbound*. She was sailing from London (after initially leaving Liverpool) to Boston. @3:35, Phillips angrily brushing off Evans was largely due to Evans forgetting a crucial piece of wireless courtesy. If one was to interject on an operator transmitting, like Phillips was doing, the interjecting operator started by sending out a quick signal that indicated he was asking permission to cut-in.. (It was the wireless equivalent of putting up your hand to speak.) Evans forgot to do this, and just barged in. That's what upset Phillips. Evans later said he'd realized at the time what he'd forgotten and wasn't offended by Phillips' (who he was friends with ashore) rebuke. @7:30, I wonder if the outcome would have been different if Chief Officer Stewart or Third Officer Groves (who was described by one author as the best of the lot on "Californian") had been on the bridge during the night? What is so hard to grasp is why Stone (as Apprentice Gibson wasn't the one in charge) or Lord didn't have the simple initiative to rouse Evans and have him find out if anything was wrong. It was literally the easiest thing to do and had no risk or downside. They could even have told Evans to come on duty a half-hour later in the morning, to make up for any lost sleep. Coming to the aid of "Titanic" would not have been particularly difficult from a technical standpoint. Steam had been kept up in the boilers on "Californian" in case of emergency, so they could've started right away. They had a visual pinpoint on the location, so navigating wouldn't have been complex. Admittedly, they may have had to maneuver around ice, but they still could've gotten there in a reasonable amount of time. (A likely scenario, if Evans had been roused and learned of what was happening: Captain Lord would've compared the stated position of "Titanic" versus the lights and rockets seen by his crew. This would've been reported back to Captain Smith. Captain Smith would then have told Captain Lord to simply hone in on the lights, while correcting their stated position for other ships coming.) How many more lives could have been saved? It's very unlikely that "Californian" could have saved all 1500 who were lost. There simply wasn't time. The only possible way to come close to that would have been to maneuver the two ships so close that a gangway could be stretched to enable passengers to just cross over to the rescue ship. On the open sea, with one vessel sinking (and at an increasing rate) it's not a practicable option. Lord probably would've, best case, arrived between 1:45 and 2am. He would've gotten as close as he dared (keep in mind, the lifeboats were all around and he had to be careful about them) and sent all of his lifeboats over to take people off as best they could. How to get people into boats that were already in the water is another problem. Able bodied men could likely have gone down ropes (like Arthur Peuchen did to join the short handed crew of Boat #6), but even that would be a slow process when time was of the essence. Ironically (and definitely counter-intuitively) the quickest way to fill boats from "Californian" (and any "Titanic" boats that would've offloaded and gone back for more people) would've been for people to jump from the lower gangway (or the deck as it got lower) with a boat nearby and crew ready to pull people out of the water. (The water was fatally cold, but I believe that if they were pulled out right away most people could endure it.). The boats from the two ships would perhaps have had time for one offload before "Titanic" sank. Once that happened, all they could do would be to try and rescue as many people from the water as possible. It's uncertain if any survivors in the water could have made it to "Californian" itself. That would depend on how close Captain Lord would try to get to the mass of people. His main concern would be not running down any swimmers or boats. IF he could have gotten close enough, he could have used his cargo booms and nets to try and rescue people from the water. Overall, between the lifeboats of both ships (boats from "Titanic" being able to offload and return) and directly pulling people from the water, I think it's realistic that "Californian" arriving could have saved at least 400-500 more people. They might've been able to save more if they had some extra good luck or something, but 400-500 is a reasonable number given the factors. However, even if they'd gotten there so late they only saved literally ONE extra person, at least they would have made the effort. Captain Lord would've been regarded as a hero who at least tried to get there. (Nobody would fault him for a good effort that came up short.) After the rescue, they still would've required "Carpathia" and perhaps one or two other ships as well ("Mount Temple" and possibly one other). "Californian" was indeed primarily a cargo vessel. They had room for only 47 passengers. What's more, they surely didn't have provisions to provide for over a thousand people they now had on board, for the three or four more days to reach port. They definitely would've had to transfer most survivors over to other (passenger) vessels more able to provide for them. (Liners had more food, linens, beds, doctors on board, etcetera). "Californian" might've kept as many as she could berth and feed until they reached Boston (of course, they'd more likely divert to New York if they other rescue vessels were going there), but others would be transferred as soon as other ships arrived and it was light enough to see what they were doing. So, Captain Lord all but certainly wouldn't have been able to get there in time to save everyone who was lost. But, he likely could've saved hundreds more. And, even if he couldn't save anyone extra, if he'd come as soon as they saw rockets and roused Evans he still would've been lauded for making the effort.

With all the ice in the area, Californian would have difficulty navigating to Titanic safely

@fmyoung

3 күн бұрын

The Carpathia had difficulty too yet she made it safely thanks to a vastly increased number of lookouts

Really well done.

I believe they could’ve tried and would’ve made it before the Carpathia, even in the ice field with the smaller crew, and slower vessel. If only they were within a closer distance than the 58 miles away the Carpathia was. I think they truly ignored the distress signals due to the fear of the ice and the previous communication with the titanic. Either way, the Carpathia had some truly good crew who risked their lives turning their vessel in the complete opposite direction, navigating through the ice to save people. It’s sad 6 years later it would be subject to a German attack and ultimately sink.

An outstanding and very well researched video! What it made me wonder though was what is your opinion on the conjecture that occasionally arises that Capitan Lord suffered from an unknown and undiagnosed mental illness that occasionally caused lapses in his normally otherwise sound judgment?

@MrDaiseymay

2 жыл бұрын

yep, it happens when large amounts of bribery money, was stuffed into his pockets, just like Capt Smiffy.

@philipsharp8250

Жыл бұрын

Well you say it was well researched. At the start of the video, the commentator said the Californian left Liverpool traveling in an easterly direction. I think he needs some geography lessons, before he opens his mouth again.

There was most certainly enough going on around them that they could of least woken Evens up, even when left to look for a missing lifeboat they failed ,as the missing boat was right there and was eventually found a month later.

@steverogers8163

2 жыл бұрын

It's safe to say that the crew of the California was not the pride of the fleet.

@SeattlePioneer

Жыл бұрын

> They had a responsibility perhaps, to search. They did. The search produced no results. Tough. It is not at all an easy task to find a small boat on a very big ocean. Them's the breaks.

*Short answer:* we don't really know. *Long answer:* we don't really know. *Conclusion:* we don't really know. Great video though; well made and interesting...

As a headphones user I must say, your sudden recreation of the wireless message from California to Titanic about ice was perfect.

@TheGreatBigMove

2 жыл бұрын

I intended to give that effect, but I might have made it slightly too loud.

In the end, they still came to assist after finding out that the Titanic had sank. If they knew that those rockets were distress rockets, I'm sure they would've come to their aid sooner.

Actually, I believe they did include a blip of the Californian (one of her lights) in the distance, although Cameron has never confirmed this, there is a scene in Titanic where there is a light seen in the direction where many believe the Californian was positioned on the night of the sinking.

Awesome video, I felt like I was there...very erie. But I was wondering, what exactly are "Company Lights", in Mariner talk? And, why would a ship ignore them???? It was a key element that needed to be explained to the non-nautical. Thanks!

To those saying that another ship there earlier would have made no difference…if I were stranded in that water I’d sure as hell be happier to take my chances swimming to a ship, hoping to be thrown a line rather than just left to die. The people in the water died mostly of hypothermia and exposure. Had there been another ship there as titanic went down to immediately pull them out of the water, many more would have surely survived. They could have prepared their boats en route and had them ready to lower. Even without boats, lines and Jacob’s ladders could have been thrown so people could climb aboard. Would everyone have been saved? Of course not. Would many more have likely been pulled aboard before freezing to death? I think so.

Ultimately at the end of the day it is Captain Smith of the Titanic who is to blame for the sinking of the RMS Titanic. It was his call to be moving way to fast for the conditions that night. That cannot be disputed. Look at the two closest ships to him. Californian- Stopped for the night due to the conditions Carpathia- Was going well below her max speed and only increased speed once she got the distress call. Titanic- While not going her max speed she was traveling at over 20 knots.

The thing buggling my mind the most, is that Titanic didn't do the same as Californian, by stopping until daylight.

A few points based on actual available evidence about the SS Californian: The rockets were fired at uneven intervals, that too when it was already way too late. Captain Lord had ordered the wireless operator twice to send out warnings about the ice and the position of these sightings. He had also asked his officers on watch throughout the night to keep him updated. After stopping at around 10.20pm, he had gone around the Californian to observe the ice field, then he went to the engineers’ cabin and informed the chief engineer of the decision to stop. At this point they noticed the the lights of an approaching ship and Lord asked Evans (the Marconi wireless operator) which ships were in the area. Evans noted that he only knew of the Titanic being in the area, and Lord replied that the approaching steamer looked too small to be the Titanic. Nevertheless, Lord ordered Evans, once again, to warn all ships in the area about the iceberg and he specifically ordered to him to inform the Titanic that they were stopped in a field of ice. This was because he was worried about an approaching ship being damaged if they didn’t have the appropriate warning or about heeding the warning and stopping too close to cause a collision because of any potential drifting. At about 11pm, Californian ship time, after a 17hour day, Lord left the bridge and went down to the Chart Room. He had ordered 3rd officer Groves (on watch until midnight) to inform him of any changes or updates and to inform 2nd officer Stone of the same instructions when he took over watch around midnight. Lord then went down to rest on the settee in the Chart Room. Here is where much of the problems and myths arise because 3rd officer Groves’ testimony in the British inquiry (2 May-3 July) makes big claims implicating Lord and even 2nd officer Stone to some extent. He asserts that he saw the Titanic, that it was 5-6 or 10-12 miles (he gives conflicting statements), that he informed Lord who refused to do anything, that he informed Stone that he saw Titanic and that Stone failed in rousing Lord to inform him of the ongoing disaster, and that he chatted to Evans about seeing the Titanic and tried to listen in on the Marconigram. It’s worth noting that the statements he makes in his testimony are contradicted by the written statements about the details of the watch from midnight to 4am submitted by Stone and apprentice Gibson (who joined Stone on watch from around 12.15am) on 18 April to Captain Lord. Groves’ testimony is also contradicted by the testimonies given by wireless operator Evans, Captain Lord, chief officer Stewart, and 2nd officer Stone. His testimony is also contradicted by the testimonies given by Captain Moore of the SS Mount Temple (one of the first ships to acknowledge receiving Titanic’s first distress wireless call, the ship was to the west of the ice field that Titanic was to the east of, distance between Mount Temple and Titanic’s wreck is around 60mi/97km) and Captain Rostron of the RMS Carpathia (the ship that rescued the Titanic’s survivors on the morning of 15th April). Yet, the British Inquiry took his word over that of all others, especially of the senior officers with far more experience than him. The discovery of the Titanic’s wreck in 1985 threw further doubt on Groves’ testimony, since the positions he gave are completely at odds with were the ship actually was relative to the SS Californian’s recorded and independently verifiable position. It’s also worth noting that the accusations of Lord giving false testimony about his position or of having wrongly calculated his position that are based on Gibson’s testimony don’t hold up to scrutiny. Gibson’s own written statement dated 18 April contradicts the testimony he gave in May-July to the British Inquiry implying Lord’s inaction and stating that Stone was concerned about the ship in their view and the supposed distress rocket signal. Stone’s written statement and his testimony is clear that there was no indication that the ship they had in view was in distress, nor that the rockets fired were distress signals. Another falsehood that’s perpetuated is that Lord maliciously changed the ship’s logs. There is zero evidence for this. All Leyland Line ships had a “scrap log” where observations or calculations could be noted in real time and the official log which had the final details noted in based on the scrap log. Leyland Line company policy required that the scrap log be destroyed at the end of each day, and this was proved by the documentary evidence and the company lawyer at the Inquiry. Nevertheless, it is still asserted that Lord was acting maliciously and trying to cover for himself, when he was simply following company policy as he had done in all previous journeys. We now know that both the US Senate Inquiry and the British Wreck Commissioner’s Inquiry were wrong in accepting the Titanic’s last wireless CQD/SOS coordinates because of the discovery of the wreck by Dr. Ballard and team in 1985. Both inquiries chose to assert that the Californian’s reported position was wrong (/maliciously misreported by Lord) and the Titanic’s reported coordinates in the wireless distress calls were correct. With the available evidence now, we can say for certain that the Californian’s reported position was correct and it was not 5-6 mile or 10-12 miles north of the Titanic. It was at a distance of around 20-21 miles, with the Titanic to the south east of it below. The reappraisal of the 1912 British Inquiry in the 1992 by the British Marine Accident Investigation Branch concluded that even if Lord had been informed of “distress rocket signals” and he had woken his wireless operator to establish contact and then made his way over, the SS Californian would not have reached the Titanic until after it had already sank.

@mariamatheson5300

10 ай бұрын

They wanted a scapegoat for the whole disaster and it was Captain Lord.

A story told to our school by a teacher, who was a keen yachtsman, in the 1970s. Apparently there was a ex mariner he knew, living in our town, who as an apprentice/ cabin boy (not sure of his standing) was quite keen on telegraphy and used to listen in on signals, post mid-night, after the radio operator had signed off. On the night of the disaster for some reason he didn't go to the radio room and missed the Maydays. The boat he was serving on was in the vicinity. Apparently this haunted the mariner for the whole of his life. Can anyone confirm the veracity of the tale and which boat it might have been?

The difficulty in judgement is that we are looking at it knowing the history and the outcome. Wireless communications were in their infancy. They were a fun tool to be used by the rich. There were no rules or even guidelines as what to be done. SOS was born that night. So many things to take into consideration. You presented a good case against Captain Lord. But sending up flares in the night also were not standard procedure. Sadly all of these became standard safety protocols. But lifeboats also were to blame. If all the life boats Titanic had were filled (65) the saved lives would have been over 1000. Too many variables to make judgments more than 100 years later. But good work!

Excellent work here! I can’t agree with you more. The crew from the Californian might have been able to save more lives. I think if they were going to make the decision to investigate what was happening with the Titanic, they would have had to act quickly. Then make their way through the ice soon after seeing the first rockets. And as you had expressed the Californian was a slower ship, about 12-13 knots was her top speed. Most likely she wouldn’t reach that while navigating through the ice. I think it’s safe to say that by the time the Californian did reach the Titanic, she would be gone and then the Californian would be pulling bodies out of the water. Given the size of the Californian’s crew it would have been no easy task as to rescue those struggling in the water and there would still be many casualties, but maybe not as many. I think that’s what’s so great about the Titanic disaster, it’s full of many ifs.

Hello TGBM, Did any of your research about the titanic sinking involve distress flares being confused with flares being used by known whaling vessels in the area and operate around ice flows? The Robert Ballard documentary on the discovery of the titanic i believe mentions that but not sure if it had any merit.

There is 1 lesson I've learned in life. Never, but never assume that someone else is going to come to your aid. You and only you can prevent and protect yourself from harm.

@mariamatheson5300

10 ай бұрын

Very true.

The problem is, we are looking at californian from a 100 year hindsinght. Technology and procedures back there were completly diffrent. The Maconi Wireles comunication was not a standard at all thips. It was technical novelty, and at best unproven technology at that point. There is no procedures how to use it, and when to use it. To add to it, the wireless operators were not ship crew, and completly oblivios to ship operation procedures. So it is like aircraft pilot would ask flight attentand to ask for clearence for landing on facebook since control tower is not responding. I know it is not the best example. This can help you, but it is not a standard procedure. So they try to communicate by the means they are used to, and they should use. Titanic distress rockets, were in wrong color and fired at wrong interval, so it was also not an established distress signal. At that point, there is not much the Californian crew can do. Another fact is, you not always assume the worst. After all what is more likely to happen: Brand new liner is making a party for the 1st class passengers during maiden voyage or is sinking fast? We know in the hindsight that is sank, but back there? Everyone would assume it is just a party.

The SS Californian was in a ICE field that caused it to shut down. Relighting boilers and getting underway surrounded by ICE is dangerous. The SS Californian would of had to go very slow to avoid becoming another ship in distress. The first rule of Rescue is DO NOT BECOME A VICTIM yourself!!! The RMS Carpatha was truly heroic. As I understand it. The RMS Carpathia exceeded it maximum flank speed by 20%! ( Granted. The ocean being like a pond allowed the super speed.) But in an alternate reality if the Carpathia would of hit another ICE Berg recklessly blindly charging to Titanic's rescue, or the Boiler exploded by overtaxing the engine! Carpathia's Captain would of been the only Sailor criminally charged!

@taticatnineland

Жыл бұрын

…do you believe that the word ‘ice’ is an acronym?

@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Жыл бұрын

That wasn't a decision Lord made. This is a strange after-the-fact justification for the fact that Lord never even attempted to do *ANYTHING* to help.

@billnotice9957

Жыл бұрын

@@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa Agreed. No Captain or any Human being of any morals could ignore a passenger ship in distress. Especially reconsidering and rewatching the video since SS California only had a cargo and crew. SS Californian were in much better position to take a chance overheating boiler for emergency flank plus speed after clearing the ice field. The 2nd officers' statement the ship looked "queer" is incredibly damming.

@billnotice9957

Жыл бұрын

@BB49 Yeah that des make sense. Lights, heat are still needed even if anchored.

I thoroughly agree with your analysis.

They could have at least tried to establish wireless communications

Excellent and reasonable analysis, with which I agree. As you say, simply compare and contrast Californian’s actions with Carpathia’s. There was ample evidence to investigate, and all Capt Lord had to do was awaken the wireless operator and have him to turn on the set. Then they would’ve known the entire story. It’s possible Californian might not have arrived in time to save lives, but they should have made the effort - and now we shall never know.

You forgot to mention that the titanic didn’t fire the rockets off correctly. To fire a rocket for distress, you fire them in a one minute interval, which the titanic did not do.

@madnatty

2 жыл бұрын

I believe it just had to be short, regular intervals.

@fmyoung

4 күн бұрын

I would've still thought rockets at sea mean distress, period; that's nice and straightforward that way there is no guessing around and help can promptly get underway

It is a bit strange to me that they would ignore the distress rockets. I understand the wireless operator going to bed and a rescue being a struggle but ignoring all the warning signs is just dense.

The officers on the Californian misinterpreted the color of the rockets Titanic sent out. Also unfortunately, the wireless operator had turned off his wireless for the night and did not get Titanic's distress call. The Captain of the California chose to ignore it

One has to wonder how different history may have been had the Titanic's wireless operator made a more friendly reply, such as "Please stand by, am busy with telegraphs, will chat in a while" Something to make Californians radio operator grab a cup of cocoa and stay by his set for the next hour or so.

@SilverIchimaru

Жыл бұрын

That reply was not really rude among those operators. GTH or get to h*ll, OM or old man and shut up were very normal and they were known for using for that time very shocking language. They were something of a good ole boys club. I understood immediately, but to outsiders, it sounds totally different. On the other hand, I cannot get over the fact that Californian didn't wake the radio operator.

@mikethebike2456

11 ай бұрын

🛵 Awesome comment. We only speculate, but there's quite a chance that more tactful management by the operator could have saved a thousand people. The story of Titanic is rife with human arrogance. How was everyone on earth convinced that a ship was unsinkable to the point of rudely dismissing talk of it ?