*literally The sponsor is Surfshark: get an exclusive deal - enter promo code STEVEMOULD for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deals/stevemould

@adri1572

10 ай бұрын

Steve mould, i think I found your long lost twin sibling!! His name is "david castello-lopes", and he is a french journalist/comedian/youtuber. The resemblance is very much striking

@acasccseea4434

10 ай бұрын

for a clear resin 3d print, like optically clear, you can polish it to 800 grit, then use a clear glossy spray paint. It'll make it optically clear. i've made lenses out of SLA 3d prints

@WetDoggo

10 ай бұрын

8:54 this surface isn't polished, it's ground very smooth.

@anarcocapitalista3700

10 ай бұрын

@@adri1572 Steve is cuter.

@MegaKickn

10 ай бұрын

Please make and sell the small 3D Gilbert curve resign cube!!

"In reality, it's impossible to show infinitely many knobbles." -Steve Mould

@gorgenfol

10 ай бұрын

"and you can quote me on that." - Steve mould

@danielgagliardi727

10 ай бұрын

glad this was appreciated

@MartinPHellwig

10 ай бұрын

Never went to a nightclub in small town then.

@barneylaurance1865

10 ай бұрын

@@gorgenfol You should take this down. It was "you can quote me on that", not "you can quote me on this". But then I'm making the same faux pas.

@shebadoge

10 ай бұрын

its nubbles lol

In engineering there is the concept of the "sacrificial anode" where if a structure will be attacked by a lot of corrosion, a focal point is provided to divert the damage from the main structure. Steve wisely knows any maths videos will attract a lot of pedantic corrections. Hence the use of a "sacrificial mathematician".

@mamoopy

10 ай бұрын

These are used on boats if anyone is curious on specific use cases

@Arjun-gu6gk

10 ай бұрын

cool

@Blaster_Unity_UB

10 ай бұрын

This proves that maths is applied philosophy

@sharpestbulb

10 ай бұрын

@@mamoopy Wow, I never knew they used sacrificial mathematicians on boats. This explains what happens to most graduates, thank you

@Zebra_M

10 ай бұрын

Turns out "Matt" was short for "Magnesium galvanic anode" all along 😌

Im expecting a shirt saying “ It’s impossible to show infinitely many knobles ! “

I never understood fractal dimensions for over 5 years and you just explained it perfectly in less than a minute. Just, wow. You're amazing at explaining complex topics.

@KSignalEingang

9 ай бұрын

If you haven't already seen it, 3Blue1Brown has an excellent explainer on the topic (though it is far longer than a minute).

@jkid1134

7 ай бұрын

Dimension is essentially a scaling factor, with higher dimensional things scaling more from the same change in length as lower things (like how doubling the radius of a ball will have more of an impact on its weight than its surface area). Things with fractional dimension are just things that scale at a rate between the rate of the integer dimensions. For example, the area of a Sierpinski triangle scaled up by two does something in between doubling (like it would if it was a line segment) and quadrupling (like it would if it were a full triangle). That's how it made sense to me when I was explained it, so in case it makes sense to you, here you go. It also I think prepares you very well to see the math behind it, where a formula for scaling in terms of dimension is then solved for dimension and used as a definition extension.

@ohno5559

7 ай бұрын

This was a good video but he didn't actually explain fractal dimension, he just gave a couple examples

@ludvig3242

3 ай бұрын

damn, were you actively researching it for five years or something? lmao

@4thalt

3 ай бұрын

@@ludvig3242 no. I heard about fractal dimensions for the first time 5 years ago, didn't understand it. For the longest time, when I watched science videos and the topic came up I didn't understand it. Only finally got it when I saw Steve Mould explain it 6 months ago in this video, right before I made that comment.

It’s amazing to me that you’ve turned “water runs between two transparent sheets” into a genre

@DavidLindes

10 ай бұрын

Seeing the “water runs”… plus the marble run earlier… makes me think of a crossover that I didn’t know I wanted… who’s the guy that does the marble races? Jelly’s or something? It’s been a minute…

@DavidLindes

10 ай бұрын

Just looked it up. Jelle’s! I was close-ish. :)

@RCAvhstape

10 ай бұрын

@@DavidLindes Wintergaten makes those crazy marble machine musical instruments.

@ellusiv5121

9 ай бұрын

asmr community gonna have a new toy to play with

@XInsneaX_INSANE_INSNEA

9 ай бұрын

​@@DavidLindes🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

That visualization is pretty awesome! I want to see the same thing at like... room scale... with clear pipes. It would be AWFUL to assemble lol. with the locality and stretchyness of the hilbert curve your prints demonstrated REALLY well, I'd imagine it'd be near impossible to hold rigid too...

@SteveMould

10 ай бұрын

Do I detect a nerd sniping? Can't wait for the video!

@tobylegion6913

10 ай бұрын

You could use braces, there are enough parallel parts that can be linked to spo them from wobbling away. It takes a bit away from the concept bit not too much.

@standupmaths

10 ай бұрын

Count me in.

@AlphaPhoenixChannel

10 ай бұрын

@@standupmaths ba dum tss...

@jawstrock2215

10 ай бұрын

would use a very thin exit nozzle, to make sure the water is well pressured, and fills everything as it goes through. 🤔

A fractal doesn't need to be self-similar at different scales. That's just how we construct a lot of them. That fractional dimension property you described is the important one, and that's achieved in anything that has infinite amounts of detail as you zoom in.

You did so much work for so many rapid-fire visual "proofs" and I honestly really appreciate the immediacy of it.

Worth noting: Fractals don't necessarily need to be self-similar. Also space-filling curves are definitionally fractal because it's Minkowski dimension exceeds its topological dimension. The trouble with the labyrinth is that you would need to show its limiting behavior actually fills space, which is doubtful but who knows?

@petergerdes1094

10 ай бұрын

Thank you, I was actually here to make the same point. The issue is that people's intuitive idea of a fractal (self-similarity) and the definition in terms of the Hausdorff dimension (which in the case of space filling curves should agree with Minkowski dimension) aren't the same.

@terdragontra8900

10 ай бұрын

the issue is that there is no sequence of finer and finer labyrinths that have a limit. the path the next iteration takes is wildly different, in the hilbert curve, the 20th iteration is very similar to the 19th, in that the point that is, say, 1/pi along the curve barely moved (and same for all other numbers 0 to 1)

@ArawnOfAnnwn

10 ай бұрын

"definitionally fractal because it's Minkowski dimension exceeds its topological dimension" - what is this supposed to mean to us ordinary plebs who don't talk math?

@justforplaylists

10 ай бұрын

​@@terdragontra8900 Is the limit of the space filling curve {lim n->∞ (x_n(t), y_n(t))} the set of limits of points on the curve, which is literally the whole area? Or is it {(x,y)|∃N∀n>N, (x,y) ∈ {x_n(t), y_n(t)}} (so just the 1/2^n points)? Or is it the closure of the second thing, which would also be the whole area?

@micayahritchie7158

10 ай бұрын

@@ArawnOfAnnwn Minkowski dimension is fairly straightforward in idea: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski%E2%80%93Bouligand_dimension The other is isn't so straightforward but in the case of curves like these think, if you zoomed in close enough what dimension would it look like. This is not what it is, it's about refinements of covering sets or some nonsense like that. But the shapes in the video are well behaved so you can think of it like that Here's the idea: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebesgue_covering_dimension

I work in un underground mine where we use something called a "Belt Storage Magazine". Long story short it's a way to store conveyor belt that can be extended or retracted without taking up more space. The path the conveyor belt takes through the magazine is almost identical to the Celtic Labyrinth, although it's shaped differently.

@sethb3090

10 ай бұрын

I think this is also similar to the way pythons and boas rest.

I think something that'd be really cool would be to have one of the smaller cubes filled with a colored epoxy. I don't exactly know how well it'd set up, but it might be worth a shot. Then you might even be able to polish it by covering it in a thin layer of epoxy. Nice desk piece.

03:00 never heard more satisfying "yup"

If you filled the 3d version with 2+ liquids with different densities (and colours) and closed the loop, could you flip it around and watch the liquids re-arrange themselves? Would be a 10/10 desk toy.

@mcv2178

10 ай бұрын

Yes! Please! I got to know!

@forlornhope1116

9 ай бұрын

Green coolant and orange coolant in your radiator.

@Pulpzero420

9 ай бұрын

The business man

@windhelmguard5295

8 ай бұрын

should use oil and water so they don't mix.

I was so excited when Steve started talking about someone who was good at explaining maths! I was thinking, "we're going to get Matt Parker! It's another two for one!" Then, Steve said, "Matt Parker, do you know anyone good at explaining maths?" I actually laughed out loud!

@JanStrojil

10 ай бұрын

Same here! 😊

Another curve you would really appreciate is the dragon curve. It is construced by "folding" a line segment (e.g. a thin strip of paper) in two, folding that in two, etcetera, each time dividing the total length in two. After that, you unfold it again, keeping 90 degree angles at the "creases". The result is a space filling curve. Maybe not mathematically, but at least visually.

2:24 “in reality it is impossible to show infinitely many knobbles, and you can quote me on that” -Steve Mould

This got me wondering: Shouldn't you be able to construct the cube's inlet and outlet in such a way that you could print more cubes and connect them into a bigger and bigger cube that still fulfills the property and could pipe water all the way through?

@zlac

10 ай бұрын

You could probably print them without inlets and outlets, and then drill as necessary to glue together bigger cubes. Might get time consuming (64 cubies to do it twice, 512 for 3, etc.), and it would possibly stop working after a while.

@DqwertyC

10 ай бұрын

Potentially... Unlike the sides of a Koch Snowflake, where each iteration is made out of exact copies of the previous generation, the Hilbert curve (and the generalized 3D versions) are copies of the original *plus* extra lines to connect those copies. Those connectors don't always connect at the same angle (sometimes at a right angle on both sides, sometimes only on one), so you'd have to include paths for all possible connectors and then somehow plug the ones you aren't using

@DudeWhoSaysDeez

10 ай бұрын

It seems like by definition that should work

@Tylorean

10 ай бұрын

@@zlacthe problem with drilling and glueing is that you create branches and shortcuts

@SteveMould

10 ай бұрын

Oh nice idea!

The celtic labyrinth can be defined by a substituion rule, but you have to stretch things a bit. Take two copies of a celtic labyrinth, stretch one out and open it up into an inverted U, and wrap the other curve with it - leaving a gap up the middle so you can join the two. To put it the other way, for a celtic labyrinth, there's clearly two layers to it (an outer and an inner), and each layer has the labyrinth structure.

Thank you so much for the simplest explanation of fractals that I'd personally heard so far.

I love it when educational KZreadrs start referencing and replying to each other's videos and a single topic becomes an internet-spanning obsession.

FYI fractals are not necessarily self-similar. Shoreline borders are probably the more well-known example of fractal lines that aren't self-similar. All that matters is that they have infinite detail that never smooths away when you zoom in. The self-referential ones are more famous just because it's the easier way to describe a mathematical object with that property.

@u1zha

10 ай бұрын

Are we going to simply ignore the fact that Steve already said what the word "fractal" means, and it is not what you are saying? If you think your words are more correct, you're going to need a reference.

@treadwell1917

9 ай бұрын

@@u1zha😂 he’s exactly correct and it would take you a few seconds to learn for yourself.

@treadwell1917

9 ай бұрын

@@u1zhathe fact that you need someone to reference a fact that disagrees with something you learned from KZread is hilarious.

@treadwell1917

9 ай бұрын

@@u1zhastart with a guy named Mandelbrot and go from there.

@PeregrineBF

9 ай бұрын

@@u1zha The Onion Curve is a good example of a non-fractal space-filling curve. See "Onion Curve: A Space Filling Curve with Near-Optimal Clustering" (2018) by Xu, Nguyen, and Tirthapura.

The 3d version, like the 2d ones, would have an interesting property in the limit, wouldn't it? The water line through it would have an infinite length, but limited volume. Since you can't make the water go through faster than the speed of light, it would take an infinite amount of time to fill even a tiny cube with a syringe of the same volume, no matter how much pressure you can exert on the plunger.

@acters124

10 ай бұрын

Very interesting, this is shown in the multiple videos, there is a gradual decrease in pressure from start to finish. If it was infinitely long, there has to be infinite pressure at the start too. So your ending statement of "no matter how much pressure you can exert" is just plainly wrong. the pressure can be represented as a integral of length of the line.

@Hankathan

10 ай бұрын

@@acters124 The problem is that no amount of force can accelerate the water beyond the speed of light. The water would have to travel along the path which is infinitely long, so it could never reach the end (or anywhere else in the cube for that matter) in a finite amount of time.

@glorrin

10 ай бұрын

To have an infinite line you would need a tube with no width unfortunately all liquide I know ha e a minimum width for exemple I doubt water could get thinner than an h2o molecule. Therefor none 0 with tube means finite tube means finite time to fill

@Hankathan

10 ай бұрын

@@glorrin You are correct that this scenario could not happen in the real world, but original post was about the limit case, a true space filling curve with no thickness. It doesn't really make physical sense, but it's interesting to think about.

@Freakhealer

10 ай бұрын

Water wouldnt fit on the cavities

2:29 the water solved the maze yay

I have been so pleased to come to understand so many things I didn’t understand or even know about until I came to watching Steve Mould’s videos. It want the case with this one!

I am always impressed at how well you make it feel like you are just discovering in the moment the content you're presenting, even though I know you must've spent weeks or months preparing it. It brings me along with you as a viewer, and creates a literally wonderful experience! Really great stuff, as always!

@invincible4u

10 ай бұрын

Aint no way Brah!!!

In my field of digital cartography, space filling curves are critical for efficiently retrieving two dimensional information like longitude and latitude from a one-dimensional data source (like a hard drive or RAM.) For years we've been interlacing the binary digits of long/lats to create a one-dimensional number. When you plot the original two dimensional points in the order defined by that one-dimensional interlaced value, you get - poof- a space filling curve. The key feature of this technique is that objects close together in their two-dimensional representation tend (with some predictable exceptions) to be close together in their one-dimensional representation! Imagine how important this was for reading data from something like a mechanical disk platter.

@JonathanSharman

9 ай бұрын

Essentially the same technique is sometimes used in distributed particle simulations to map nearby particles to the same compute node. So many applications!

i could barely understand anything in this video but i still found it all really cool, glad i watched all of it

This was the first video of yours that i found in my feed. I watched 15 seconds in before subscribing and have been binge watching your content since. Thank you Steve

I love the dynamic between Steve and Matt. I knew exactly who Steve was calling, and I knew exactly what question he was going to ask.

As someone who recently got into resin printing, I learned that you can remove the cloudiness by brushing fresh resin onto the surface and use a uv light to cure it from there, or just not washing the print and go straight to curing helps too.

@wizrom3046

10 ай бұрын

I work with epoxies. Just spray it with clear lacquer of pretty much any type.

The excellent spatial locality of the Hilbert curve can be useful in distributed particle simulations. There are too many particles to store on a single machine, so you have to divvy them up across multiple nodes. You want nearby particles to be stored on the same node because it's more expensive to communicate between nodes, and particles need to communicate only with their nearest neighbors. A particle's position along a (3D generalization of the) Hilbert curve can be very quickly computed from its coordinates. Then, you can sort the particles by their Hilbert curve values and assign contiguous chunks to each node. The end result is that the particles on each node tend to be very close to each other.

i wonder if you could have a decorative version where the two ends are connected by tubing (w/ a pump to push liquid through) and have 2 different liquids (water and oil maybe?) go through it to show the motion

The reason the Celtic labyrinth doesn't count as a space-filling curve is that you can't define a limit version of it, or in other words, you can't define a sequence of increasingly filling Celtic labyrinths who end up stabilizing into a limit version. The Hilbert curve is special in that it does stabilize, if you go at the 1/3rd of the point in the curve for instance, each iteration of adding an additional U shape is going to go closer and closer to a limit point, it converges. For each iteration of the Celtic curve, which consists of adding a new line inbetween each existing line, the 1/3rd mark is going to go all over the place. By the mathematical version of a limit, the limit of the Celtic labyrinth curve doesn't exist, it diverges. Or in other words, it's mostly related to the "good low quality" property of the Hilbert curve, which mean low quality versions of the curve are a good approximation of its highest quality version - the limit curve.

@Thesupremeone34

10 ай бұрын

you missed what Matt Parker was saying. While it is true that the approach used to demonstrate fractals as space filling will not work on the Celtic labrynth, there is no way of knowing at this time if it is space filling or if it is not. This is because the absence of a method of proof does not itself constitute a valid disproof.

@ClaraDeLemon

10 ай бұрын

​@@Thesupremeone34you misunderstood the comment. It's not that the curve is not a fractal, which we already knew about, and that's what Matt Parker said, it is in fact that the limit of the curves doesn't exist, so you cannot even ask the question in the first place, there's no infinite labyrinth to check if it fills space in any known or unknown way because the infinite labyrinth is not well defined

@toniokettner4821

10 ай бұрын

@@Thesupremeone34no. what matt said was wrong. the labyrinth curve is an infinite family of curves with increasingly more parallel lines, which does not converge to a well defined curve. every space filling curve needs to be a fractal

@Macieks300

10 ай бұрын

Can you prove that the Celtic labyrinth doesn't converge? In my mind I can see it converging so I don't agree with your whole premise.

@ClaraDeLemon

10 ай бұрын

@@toniokettner4821 what Matt said wasn't strictly wrong, he just didn't stop enough to notice the answer was a definite no because of convergence reasons, so he just erred in the side of caution and said "you cannot prove it with known methods", which is technically true, the best kind of true

one thing i love using hilbert curves for is visualing IP subnetting as will always be able to be displayed as a square or 1:2 rectangle on a grid vs just a very thin line

@azpcox

10 ай бұрын

Karnough maps as well. Traversing a truth table with only a single bit or state changing each turn.

@ryshellso526

10 ай бұрын

Until, IPV6...

Great video again Steve, you are right about building these rather than modelling, much more pleasing to watch (did anyone else search for all those podcasts? It’s the first time I noticed that POD in buckles image looks like POO, very fitting)

I love fractals and I really like this idea of filling them up with water!

That liquid 3D Hilbertish curve came out really nicely! I think that the labyrinth sequence doesn’t limit to a “curve” (in the sense of a continuous map from the line to a 2d disk). As you go further into the sequence, it swings back and forth around the circle faster and faster. So even if you did get a sensible answer for “where is the limit curve at time t?”, I don’t think the answer would continuously vary as t increases.

@caspermadlener4191

10 ай бұрын

Interestingly, there are continuous functions from the curve to [0,1], although mutliple values on the curve will get mapped to the same point on [0,1]. Since it isn't injective, it is jective!

So by making these nice large hydrostatic sculptures, you are actually building up a skill. And we can see you improving in it. It might be worth making a couple videos on how exactly you're creating these mechanism and what have you learned. Makers would appreciate watching it. It's almost like microfluidics where I want to get with my skills eventually...

My senior year of getting a BS in Math, I wrote a paper about fractals, and to this day, it is one of my favorite school projects. Fractals are so cool!!!

Bruh, this video is bright as hell. I need Steve Mould dark mode.

This video is far beyond my level of understanding but got this in my recommended feed and was entertained by the visuals and soothing voice at least.

0:35 would make a really satisfying loading screen for a game

@jacobschut5857

9 ай бұрын

And if the load takes longer. The loading screen just zooms in the fractal because its infinite

I've recently finished my PhD Thesis and a part of that work was on the Hilbert-curve (and its locality principle). Really nice to see this visualization now

One thing which I couldn't quite tell which you were saying but should be cleared up, is that fractals are not necessarily self similar. In fact, it is only a small subset of fractals which are self similar.

9:06 I finally understand why Latex clothing looks dull and cloudy until polished with accurate science.

I'm using "knobbles" forever now. Thank you Steve! 😊

I loved making space filling mazes in Microsoft Paintbrush as a kid. My familys 486 computer was slow enough that you could follow the different colors fill up the labyrinths you made. This gives me flashbacks to that :)

Steve, you never cease to deliver really solid content with such a simple, approachable way of showcasing your thoughts process. You rock, dude.

This guy makes videos so good that i forget what i saw on the thumbnail, then he shows it in the video and its a pleasant surprise!!!! Great video Steve :)

I'm not sure if this makes it not space-filling, but one thing I notice about the labyrinth is that it doesn't really use the same approach to filling the two dimensions. It just kind of takes the fact that a line will naturally fill a line and stacks an bunch of those together to fill a plane. Also, and again I don't know if this costs it the space-filling title, but it can't be expanded to a bigger space easily. You can make the Hilbert curve bigger and bigger because you can do the iteration "upwards" (duplicating the whole thing and stitching it together) as well as "downwards" (adding more iterations in the sections you've already drawn to fill space more finely) and you can't really do that with the labyrinth.

I played with the locality aspect in analogue signal data, converting time series to 2D using a "Hilbert transform" then applying a 2D fourier transform, it produced some really weird patterns.

I highly enjoy the science channels riff off each other, one has a clever idea, others come in with a cool twist, etc. Kind of fractal rabbit hole

me at the beginning of the video :"that looks like a fractal structure" I honestly thought I was wrong as I'm kind of obsessed with fractals, and I see them everywhere but no that's indeed somewhat of a fractal !

Most educational video on fractals I ever saw. Thank you, the hilbert curve when stretched into 3d reminds me of our brain structure

@AndieZ4U2

9 ай бұрын

Very astute observation

@ProffessorYellow

9 ай бұрын

@@AndieZ4U2 Thanks

It always makes me happy to see content creators cooperate to get even better results. 👍

Steve is linking through KZread like a space filling curve fills every point in space

Love Fractals, love 3d printing, love shapeways, love this video 🙌

This helps me under pulmonary mechanics a little better! Thank you!

I really liked how you cited AlphaPheonix - not just because citations are important but I think you did a phenomenal way of doing it scientifically and concisely; almost like it was in a journal.

glad to see 3d printing talked about in such a nonchalant way. It often feels like its such a niche community for something that should be in the public lexicon the hilbert curve and other curves have a ton of potential as a tool in 3d printing too so this was a great crossover!

I mean this in the kindest way possible: I love falling asleep to your videos haha, they’re so soothing

I remember having building blocks that were in the shape of H's that could interlock when I was young. Oh the amount of spaceships I made out of those. This reminds me of them. I see so many of the same H shape in this "curve".

These are useful for storing 2D or 3D data in computer memory (e.g texture images) Due to the locality, data that is visually close together also appears close in memory improving cache performance.

@kylebowles9820

10 ай бұрын

Your comment caused me to review a few papers. Looks like it's useful for very memory bound GPU tasks (without accounting for encoding time). Row major is still fastest on problems below cache size and on the CPU. Hilbert curves were consistently slower than Morton curves, *the effects were quite dependant on the architecture*. The advantage goes away when interdependence is added, then it spends too much time computing Morton indices instead of crunching the numbers.

It is just mesmerizing watching the water filling the pathways. Would it be possible to make a kind of indoor fountain that emptys itself and fills up again. I would imagine that emptying it completly would be difficult to do.

@lucky-segfault4219

10 ай бұрын

you could likely do it if you had two fluids of different densities, say oil and colored water. then have it drain into a bucket, and alternate between pumping from the top and bottom of the bucket.

As shapes rise in dimensions do they get more stretchy? I was wondering because when you had the printed version of the 2-D closed loop version it was stretchy but when you made the 3-D version it became more flexible and elastic. Or is this just because of the increased surface area?

I wonder: If you take a material that changes color when current runs through it (So you can see the path the current took), you make a maze out of it and put contacts on each end, would the current solve the maze? Would it take other paths too? For example if the walls of the maze are made of gummy for being non conductive

OMG thank you so much for this! I hadn't considered non-fractal space-filling curves, but this brings me a step closer to solving an impossible problem I have with computation space as it relates to fractal complexity. Fundamentally, a fractal-inclusive math must include solutions for non-fractal space-filling curves, otherwise it is incomplete and not truly fractal-inclusive.

@jAujAl1

10 ай бұрын

But non-fractal space filling curves don't exist though, in fact the inclusiveness goes the other way around. Fractal dimensions can go non-integer and cover go from 1D to 1.5D to 2D and even 3D and everything inbetween, actually most fractals aren't space-filling. But being a fractal is a requirement to be space-filling, no smooth curves can fill up the space, and the Celtic labyrinth doesn't count as it doesn't have a limit that respects the definition of a limit. I recommend you 3Blue1Brown's video about fractal dimensions and self-similar fractals on the matter, it does explain exactly how fractal maths generalise to non fractal shapes and how it affects their dimensions. And also his video about the Hilbert curve that is linked in this video's description as it explains why the Hilbert curve does respect the definition of a limit.

@epigeios

10 ай бұрын

​@@jAujAl1 I partially disagree. A logarithmic fractal is a pseudo-fractal, because it's fractal at the central point but not at any other point. when Parker said "your problem is that the 'Mould curve' is not defined by a recursive substitution approach" he's actually mostly right but partially wrong. In actuality, the Mould curve is defined by a recursive substitution approach around the origin, and a simple algorithm everywhere else. It's fundamentally halvable just like a Hilbert Curve is, at the origin, but the results of halving are less than the results of the Hilbert Curve because it's only halving at one point rather than every relevant point. meaning that it has a definable fractal dimension at the origin, and a relative fractal dimension everywhere else. This means that it sits between a pure fractal and a non-fractal. So I would instead say that a pseudo-fractal can be pseud-space-filling. It's not that it can't fill a space, but instead that it doesn't inherently fill a space. It only fills the space it's defined to fill, and it would require extra effort to make it fill a space it's not defined to fill. A true space-filling fractal can fill any space, but I realized from this video that a pseudo-space-filling fractal can only fill the space it's defined as filling. And unfortunately, fractal shapes generalizing to non-fractal shapes doesn't solve my problem. I need true in-betweens. Things that are neither fractal nor non-fractal. Logarithmic spirals and the Mould Curve are appropriate examples. Still, I'll look into that 3Blue1Brown video. I've watched most of his, and I might have missed that one. Thanks for the recommendation.

@epigeios

10 ай бұрын

@@jAujAl1 If you're talking about kzread.info/dash/bejne/mXZt0JSgeNaufpc.html, it doesn't describe a generalization of a fractal to a no-fractal at all. It only describes fractal dimension as a secondary characteristic. It describes a good generalization of fractal dimension. But in only in the same way that a number line describes a good generalization of integers and non-integers. In other words, it's completely useless for what I need. I don't need a simple number line, I need a definitional difference between integers, irrational numbers, and transcendental numbers as it relates to the definition of a fractal. Fundamentally, an Archimedes spiral is space-filling for a circle, but not any other shape. The impossible problem I'm trying to solve is inventing a math that includes Hilbert curves, Archimedes spirals, and squares, as computable shapes. in the same way a number line includes transcendental numbers, irrational numbers, and integers.

@jAujAl1

10 ай бұрын

@@epigeios Yeah, that's the one I was talking about. Fat chance, it sounded awfully close to my understanding of your problem, and my bad, I remembered it as generalizing the definition for non-fractal, sorry for the mixup. I would argue the "Mould curve" has a pretty imprecise definition of how it is defined at the center, but if you interpret it as an infinitely nested U shape with a sharp turn, it could indeed count as a single-point fractal and be space-filling at the top half of the center point (or around the full center point if you mirror it). I don't think it would count as a non-fractal though, so I think making those properties generalize to actual non-fractals would still be an impossible endeavour, but I hope that won't be a limiting factor for your computational model.

@epigeios

10 ай бұрын

@@jAujAl1 You're right about that, it's not really non-fractal in that way. And the "Mould Curve" isn't exactly what I'm looking for. It's just a step in the right direction. It's in the direction of mixing and matching fractal parts with non-fractal parts to create something different.

Imagine a life sized version of the hilbert curve cube where the diameter of the tunnel is roughly a meter and the distance from the previous turn to the next one is 3 or so meters with ladders on vertical segments. That would be my worst fear being inside that.

@Robert_McGarry_Poems

10 ай бұрын

The back rooms: Hilbert edition.

@wizrom3046

10 ай бұрын

As mazes go, it's a real easy one! 😎 Assuming you are able bodied enough to climb up/down ladders just move forward there are no branches.

Note: a fractal isn’t necessarily self-similar, the defining quality is that not matter how far you zoom you still see detailed structures

Hilbert curve is one of my favorite top fill patterns for 3d printing. Works really well with silky filaments

@ElNeroDiablo

9 ай бұрын

Fancy seeing you on here as I'm catching up on some YT I've missed due to life! :D

Space filling curves (mostly Morton) are used extensively in computer graphics to get better cache locality.

@JebFromWarmDays

10 ай бұрын

How so?

@Aexorzist

10 ай бұрын

@@JebFromWarmDays Inverse the morton transform from 2D/3D to 1D so spatially close values also tend to be closer in linear address space.

2:02 A certain video from 3Blue1Brown comes to mind named "Fractals are typically not self-similar"

Duuude this is possibly one of the coolest things I’ve seen

The fidget cube is also arranged and connected in a 3D Hilbert curve way in its cube form

All very interesting Steve. Ive been interested in similar - a heat exchanger. But instead of a single space-filling curve it uses TWO space filling curves that are tightly intermingled yet not touching. Hot fluid goes down one curve (tube) warming the fluid in the other. It would be interesting to know of any fractals for this.

@KidCorporate

10 ай бұрын

Branching structures such as tree roots and lungs, both optimized for surface area exchange, also nehprites in the kidneys

@leftaroundabout

10 ай бұрын

Space-filling curves aren't actually very good for a heat exchanger. It's true that they offer enormous surface area, but they also make it very difficult to push the fluids through, and there will always be spots where different-temperature parts meet (because a space-filling curve can't be injective). Tree structures don't have this problem, but they're not optimal either because you waste half the space in the branches before you actually get to where the heat exchanging happens. The best design for a heat exchanger is a _gyroid_ instead.

Imagine if you or a tiny creature were trapped inside and had to escape in time.

@LoveHandle4890

10 ай бұрын

The water would carry them to the exit tho.

I love how many things available on the internet that you could make just from a single idea.

The "Mould curve" isn't space-filling because it isn't a curve. You've defined a sequence of curves, but their limit doesn't exist. This is also why you need something moderately fancy like the Hilbert curve to fill space. The simplest idea would be a "boustrophedon" -- a curve that just goes back and forth. This doesn't work for the same reason as the labyrinth; you can define such a curve with N back-and-forths, but the limit with infinity back-and-forths doesn't exist.

@SteveMould

10 ай бұрын

Interesting! Thank you. Why doesn't the limit exist for the back and forth? I'm guessing it's because of some subtlety about limits that I don't know about.

@kitmaier1856

10 ай бұрын

​@@SteveMould It's related to the locality property you mentioned. In order for the limit to be a curve, it needs to be a well defined function from a line segment to the plane, so the mapping of each individual point needs to be well defined, and the function needs to be continuous. You can show that where the points are mapped to jiggles around without ever settling down.

@andrewkepert923

10 ай бұрын

You have to think of it as a parametrised curve - I.e. as if it is filling up with water. For t between 0 and 1, there is a point on each approximating curve for the position at time t. For the Hilbert and Gosper curves, these become better and better approximations to the point on the ‘real’ fractal curve, and that means you define the fractal by saying at time t, the point is the limit of the points on the approximating curves. A pointwise limit of a function, technically. For the non-fractal construction, the points at time t do not converge, so it is not possible to define the limit, so there is no limiting curve to speak of. So the trouble is that for some t, the points at time t don’t settle down as you go through the sequence of curves. They jump around too much.

@kitmaier1856

10 ай бұрын

​@@SteveMould I think it's kind of important to also emphasize that this situation is in no way at the edge of what mathematicians can handle it's a very standard type of example for learning about limits of functions

@benjabby

10 ай бұрын

​​@@SteveMouldmagine you're snaking from curve top to bottom, increasing the number of folds each iteration; the X coordinate of a point at an irrational distance along the line (say 1/π) will constantly be changing as you keep iterating and never settle down and approach a fixed point. It's analogous to an infinite series that oscillates instead of converges. Rational distances will also oscillate and not converhe but will do so in a repeating way, like the point halfway along the line will oscillate between x coordinate of 0->1/2->1-1/2->0->...

1:51 it's the dodge pentastar logo!

1:20 I can’t believe I was doodling a fractal in my notes at school. I’d start with a big star then on each of the points I’d draw stars on them and I’ll continue the process on each point

Greetings from Mexico! I was looking at random videos of worthless topics, and I accidentally fell here. I really liked your video, I hope there are more people who are interested in this type of content. Thank you for teaching us interesting things. I'm just a common internet user.

This title broke my brain 🧠

@Anklejbiter

10 ай бұрын

skill issue😊

@hippiehillape

9 ай бұрын

Only reason I'm here. Need resolution

9:30 damn, it's so satisfying

There is a way to map gps coordinates (or any point on a sphere) to one of 6 hilbert curves. Surround the sphere with a cube, then draw a hilbert curve on each face of the curve, then draw a line on the surface of the sphere where a line from the hilbert curve to the center of the sphere intersects the sphere's surface. It's called an S2 curve

The longer the curve, the more friction, is the energy you spend by applying pressure to get water though the Hilbert curve increasing proportionally to the length ? Do more new effects appear when curve gets thinner ? Like capillarity becoming dominant?

Did anyone else uncontrollably get up and stick a fork in the wall outlet at 2:15?

Amazing content. As always.

9:30 it'd be really cool if you filled it up with the liquid with the similar refractive index so that by the time the liquid reaches the middle, some of the outside of the cube looks empty!

Props for shouting out AlphaPhoenix. Genuinely great content and I'm glad to see him growing as a creator so quickly.

This was really interesting. When I clicked the video, I wasn't expecting it to be so entertaining.

3:25 "higher order U's" You missed a wonderful chance to call them "double U's"

Whoa! That looks so satisfying.

TIL that refractive index thing. amazing stuff!

The cube makes me think of that one pc screen saver we'd watch as kids outta boredom and easily distracted

"In reality it's impossible to show infinitely many knobbles and you can quote me on that" My good sir are you saying algebraic representations using limit notation doesn't count as "showing"? The mattematicians will heartily disagree

Firsty First McFirstFace🎉🎉🎉

@NovaMaster375

10 ай бұрын

You're second, you ströpwafel

@cybyrd9615

10 ай бұрын

Why can't I see the Fucking reply KZread

Gotta love how the solution to any math problem is always Matt Parker.

Can a space filling curve be used as a 1d coordinate system to locate a point on a 2d surface? The 1d coordinate could be "distance traveled along the curve" or something like that.

“Mathematics is struggling to keep up with Steve” that’s the start of a chuck Noris style line and best on a shirt.