Thanks for heading this up. I'm a person who was consumed by fear of eternal punishment from God for not believing correctly, or having incorrect theology. There were too many people all to happy to point out everyone who was "bound for a warmer destination" because of disagreements over doctrine. Being young, I thought they knew what they were talking about. The fruit that came from the belief wasn't a love of God, but a fear of Hell and a God I can't escape from, following me, keeping track of my mistakes, and waiting for when the right time for the ax to drop. I read plenty of apologetics that attempted to justify Eternal Conscious Torment, and "get it right before you miss the deadline" theology. It seemed like a combination of proof-texting, poor exegesis, and a strange kind of psychological trap: assuming it to be plain as day that as someone imperfect, you deserve unending pain and anguish, so if anyone disagrees, they're simply further proving it true by rebelling against God's Word. And the "who are YOU to question God's judgment" line (as if it's uncontested that ECT was God's modus operandi). I believed it for years, but it wasn't love or conviction that kept me locked into that belief, but a fear of "what if I'm wrong?". I could see SOME sense in it if the Scriptures did offer an absolutely undeniable account of that being the case. However, I can take the same approach of building a case ECT is the "true perspective" on Hell, and then use the same Bible and build as strong a case for Annihilationism, and then Universalism. I will say, I'm very aware that I don't know the ins and outs of Salvation, Judgment, Redemption, etc. But I have plenty of reasons to believe that whatever it may be, the ECT view surely isn't it.

I love how you don't try to "answer the question " but, in my mind at least, you desire to " have the conversation " ....we know we've passed from darkness to light when we love one another ... love you brother!

I am saved from my old self (the sinner that I was). I was dead, and now I'm alive, in Christ. Praise the Lord!!

Love how thought provoking this is! I literally told someone the other day that Jesus saved me from myself. Then I watched this video and I thought, wow I really have changed in my thinking! I am free now in Christ rather than in bondage to my old way of thinking about salvation❤️

Awesome!! I agree ☝🏽 If we stick to the beginning, and we look at the blessings and curses, we get a clearer understanding of biblical salvation. Well done 😃

Shabbat Shalom, blessings to all as we worship in Spirit and truth in this beloved Season. And let us be in one accord as we reason together.

So on point!!! I love this!!! Salvation makes us new creations!!

I feel like this is much more of a “both and” conversation. I do believe there is a consistent tone about one day the master will return and where will he find his servants. But I completely agree, we have far OVER EMPHASIZED a single view of just the next life versus how we have been invited into true life TODAY. Love the convo!

I resonate with your statement that maybe Nicodemus is being invited to consider a whole new paradigm. In my opinion, this subject matter is very much needed. Thank you so much for this series.

Yeah, baby! it's challenging to let go of decades of ... old thinking... sometimes. like days ending in "Y". thanks for more good questions, Rabz!

Love this Marty! Thanks for the thought provoking conversation. It is definitely far more about the here and now than the then and later. I always come back to Jesus’s definition of eternal life from John 17:3 and the realization that eternal life is here and now, and if I am seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness then I’m not looking beyond the path I’m on and I’m certainly not worried about “then” as much as I’m trying to enjoy and delight in the eternal life I have now, knowing the Father and Son through Holy Spirit. The concern we should have when we’ve been born again is am I knowing and continually knowing Him more and more, so I hear His voice and obey?

"what happens when i live? not what happens when I die?" GOOD QUOTE

@SheepDog1974

4 ай бұрын

We must first die, in order to live. Jesus Christ said that we must take up our cross and follow Him. There is no life, unless one dies - just like we all died through one man, we will also all live through one man, the Lord Jesus Christ, by grace through faith in Him.

God IS love, God calls us to love. To live a life of love, as Christ loved, IS to live in the Kingdom of God To live a life of love, as Christ loved, IS to experience Eternal Life To live a life of love, as Christ loved, IS to experience Salvation Love God BY Loving Neighbor (Matthew 25:35) Preach this Gospel everywhere you go and when necessary... use words. Shalom

To be able to know we are going north and we need to go east because that is going east is to All-encompassing your life towards an with Jesus 🎉

A number of times in the gospels Jesus portrays salvation as physical healing. "Being saved is being pulled out of the crooked into the straight." Many evangelicals have traditionally discarded the idea if physical. And, in a sense, God saved Abraham by faith from a hopeless position into a position of hope. It reminds me of a conversation between two tablets...

Have never struggled much with "What happens when I die?" so much as "What happens if I try to live, rather than just wait for the Rapture?"

@paulallenscards

5 ай бұрын

Well, look at it this way: if you do nothing but wait until your deathbed for something that will almost certainly not happen within your own lifetime, how will you look back at your wasted life?

If I wanted to learn more and engage more with this thought process where could I go?

What We are being saved "from" is the great deception of illusion. Only The Truth is True. And We Shall All Know as We are Known. Let This Mind be in You Which was also in Christ Jesus, Who being in the form(Express Likeness) of God, thought it not robbery (blasphemy) to be Equal to His and Our One Father! Amen! Praise The Godhead!!!❤❤❤

Did Jesus say that He went to prepare a place for us? And what did God say in Proverbs 3 that goes directly to trust and what not to trust? Go and see.

@jamesdoster2046

4 ай бұрын

Can you expand on the point you are making in Relation to the what Marty is saying here? Is there a conflict?

@SheepDog1974

4 ай бұрын

Trust Jesus, not yourself. Look to wisdom, not your own understanding. "For they will be life for you, an ornament to grace your neck"

Not to proof-text 😊 but what kept coming to mind is what Paul wrote in Ephesians 5:14, wake-up sleeper and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.

Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation. 1 Peter 2:2

wake= Epiphany

My belief is that ultimately we are saved from eternal damnation in Hell. Here are some scriptures that support this view. Matthew 3:12 "His (God's) winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor (Earth) and gather his wheat into the barn (Heaven, for those who believe), but the chaff (those who do not believe) he will burn with unquenchable fire (Hell).” Matthew 10:28 "do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." I believe, that in the temporal sense, we are saved from the consequences of sin. But in the eternal sense we are saved from Hell. Furthermore, I believe that it is only unbelievers in Christ who go to Hell.

As much as I prefer not to focus on heaven/hell, Jesus himself does seem to muddy the water with his comments and parables on the afterlife which seem to indicate judgement, punishment ('weeping and gnashing of teeth, the fiery furnace, the hell of fire, unquenchable fire, eternal punishment' to name a few). I wish he hadn't done that...

@jamesdoster2046

4 ай бұрын

For those who actively work against the story, there should be fear and trembling. For those who think they have a systematic solution for every spiritual situation that belongs to God, there needs to be enough tension to introduce humility. I think Jesus was so cool on how he navigated within the religiosity of his time.