I like how Steve is the only one who’s taking the time to actually read the accords.

@willh7352

Жыл бұрын

Great catch.

@Vietmac1993

Жыл бұрын

That is what everyone should be doing. If they are going to sign the accords, they need to read it. No way in hell am I signing the accords if I don't read them first. He stated that if they sign it, they surrender freedoms.

@darthnater9731

Жыл бұрын

@@Vietmac1993 which is why he is right. Because he is the only one who actually read it. So yeah team Cap

@Vietmac1993

Жыл бұрын

@@darthnater9731 both sides have arguments. Iron Man is right. Superheroes do need oversight. Look at other governments in the Marvel Universe. Asgard governs supernatural beings. With the rise of enhanced individuals, there needs to be oversight. Look at other shows or movies like Harry Potter and Naruto. People with powers have government oversight. However, Captain America is right too. Governments are easily susceptible to corruption and we can’t trust the governments to make the right decisions especially since Hydra infiltrated the governments. It happens in real life and in other shows where corruption exists. So yeah I am team Cap too

@darthnater9731

Жыл бұрын

@@Vietmac1993 yeah but what happened in Harry Potter?? Voldemort infiltrated the ministry of magic with people under the influence of the imperious curse. Proving that government can be corrupted

I like how nobody pointed out that the government tried to nuke Manhattan and were just infiltrated by literal Nazis for over 70 years and said literal Nazis were the reason why Sokovia happened.

@madtitan0825

2 жыл бұрын

The main point is beside this, even without Hydra, this could still happen anywhere because with absolute power comes corruption, it’s always like this, hell big guy like Ross creates Abomination who almost destroyed Harlem

@justinblakeney3466

2 жыл бұрын

@@madtitan0825 A ridiculous amount of people overlook how ironic it was that Ross was sent to pitch the Accords. That man absolutely ducked accountability for tormenting Banner and letting Blonsky wreck a city.

@johnmeadors9680

2 жыл бұрын

@@justinblakeney3466 Exactly. Ross is totally a corrupt and loose cannon, does what he wants, nobody says shit about it and he gets away with it. The whole time this POS is picking out everyone's faults while he just roams around free.

@EGRJ

2 жыл бұрын

@@justinblakeney3466 I like to think he was trying to make up for his mistakes. Like Tony.

@connor4435

2 жыл бұрын

That was Shield, which Rhodey pointed out by saying this isn't shield

This is the most adult argument you'll ever see in a superhero movie.

@j.g7006

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@arminxvs3372

Жыл бұрын

And no stupid jokes or quibs. Just seriousness.

@AJAYKumar-ul2em

Жыл бұрын

I need more scenes like this in mcu

@thee_morpheus

8 ай бұрын

@@AJAYKumar-ul2em The current MCU is severely missing scenes like this.

@Xzenoblade101

8 ай бұрын

​@@thee_morpheusThis and the Daredevil and Punisher argument is top tier.

Tony back in Iron Man 1&2 would agree with present Steve, and Steve back in Avengers would agree with present Tony

@johnlocke8642

2 жыл бұрын

They completely passed each other by to opposite sides

@legosnek

2 жыл бұрын

Just shows how much their characters developed over the years

@dwaynecox2002

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, those versions would be completely reversed.

@versetripn6631

2 жыл бұрын

What? A flip-flop, Contradictory 'REVER'-sion?? It wasn't "White Boy Day" was it? Nope. Zemo incited 'Civil War' using an ability and power the 'God of Mischief' Choki could never fully grasp: 🤣...Conviction. Which, unfortunately is WHY in today's BackAssward Society, my personal equation rings true: Zemo and Killmonger. Justified vendettas over lost family. Misguided heroics, arrogant and undeterred...are to blame. CONVICTION led both men to toppling seperate Kingdoms by exposing Emperors without suits. Example: Avengers 2012 flying 'Cammo/see-thru' Carrier, cost Cap $10, removed Coulson, Hulk and Thor and nearly Manhatten as well. False Security.

@JuanSoto-ws5ch

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ loves you repent from all sins

"It's run by people with agendas and agendas change" Damn this whole scene is a masterpiece!

@solomons2591

Жыл бұрын

@Ronald Mcdonald It was a warning we didn't see. 😓

@odinwilliams3319

Жыл бұрын

@@solomons2591 facts Kevin’s Agendas changed

@savage0928

Жыл бұрын

@@odinwilliams3319 😂😂😂

@tobsonasanya4765

Жыл бұрын

@@odinwilliams3319 not really

@odinwilliams3319

Жыл бұрын

@@tobsonasanya4765 How? Please explain how they haven’t changed dear sir

This writing is what makes Civil War my personal favorite of the MCU. It compels the audience to grapple with the relationship between heroism and civic responsibility, for which there is no one singular right perspective. Stark and Rogers could both claim a piece of the moral high ground.

@conorgillingham2564

Жыл бұрын

Damn right. I think what most people don't see is this is a captain america movie. Yes, it's large scale but the nature of the film is still very political like the other 2 films before it. (especially mirroring the vibe of winter soldier). I just love the conflict between ideology as both are compelling and every single person has good reasons to choose what side they want to be on. It's stuff like this that really makes you think and I love it.

@Diainvcgtslover

9 ай бұрын

Civil War is cool But what I don’t get is why it had to be about the Avengers but it’s named Captain America They should’ve reserved this story for a Avengers movie and have the story of this movie about Captain America

@Mojo1356

9 ай бұрын

@@DiainvcgtsloverI think because this was known as a Captain America story in the comics.

@sarahganger953

8 ай бұрын

​@@Diainvcgtslover, because it's meant to be watched in light of the other Captian America Movies... which is to say with Hydra's history in mind. The Accords were Hydra all along.

@salvlox_

8 ай бұрын

it’s real feels grounded and that’s what’s missing in the latest installments even if goes around on planet earth feels very distant

I absolutely love Vision's speech in this scene.

@tacofingerz7247

2 жыл бұрын

He isnt completely wrong though.

@MisterAcolyte

2 жыл бұрын

@@tacofingerz7247 lol no one said he was?

@tacofingerz7247

2 жыл бұрын

@@MisterAcolyte I know right? Not sure why I wrote it like that lol, but ye no one said otherwise 🤔

@laurajackson1303

2 жыл бұрын

Except Tony created Ultron and Vision. Loki was coming no matter what.

@John-ym9ic

2 жыл бұрын

It makes no sense but

The moment which separated mcu fans Both sides are reasonable

@righteousrawb7225

3 жыл бұрын

True, I'm still team Iron Man to this day

@robfab5204

3 жыл бұрын

@@righteousrawb7225 same

@jeremyanderson6789

3 жыл бұрын

Team cap .. both sides are right or wrong.

@jennacarrick6330

2 жыл бұрын

team cap when it comes to the accords. caps right. agendas change and they wouldn’t be doing what they think is right. but cap betrayed tony big time. i can’t forgive him for not telling tony.

@timi1655

2 жыл бұрын

@@jennacarrick6330 yeah, it's kinda the same for me too but i understand those who are on tony's side as well

Paul Bettany played Vision so well, the way he delivers that dialogue is so convincing and he brings a sense of wisdom to the character.

As two combat veterans (modern) I really wanted to hear more of Sam and Rhodey's views on the subject....still the film only has x amount of run time

@user-fp3yc9hm6m

2 жыл бұрын

Rhodey is a combatant on active duty so all he talks about is ranks and how important the people who supported the accords are, since he still felt the need to follow orders. Sam was a discharged veteran when he joined and he started his superhero journey defying a government agency that’s doing the wrong thing, thus he has no regards for authority or orders but only cares about doing the right thing.

@kaz7690

2 жыл бұрын

I love this section of the film. Both sides were debating with good points and I’m pretty sure I could listen them ramble on for at least 30 more minutes

@bryangosling2238

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaz7690 well if you wanna hear another banter like this, watch the video of Daredevil and punisher, talking about whether or not killing a criminal is moral? Lol real deep stuff, cause if you just send someone to prison, after a month, a week, a day later, they are back to the streets doing the same thing again(eg. Turk barret selling illegal weapons again even while on parole)

@devildavin

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-fp3yc9hm6m i felt that Rhodeys argument is flaws from the get go as soon as he said "its the united Nations" if the MCU history is relatively the same as ours i want to know or Rhodey resigned from his service during the US invasion of Iraq since the UN said it was illegal. if he didn't he is a hyppocrite.

@AgentExeider

2 жыл бұрын

@@devildavin He's a hypocrite already, since his oath requires him to protect the idea of individual and sovereign rights because he swore an oath to the constitution, not any government. In fact the entire point of the constitution is to enshrine the concept that "governments are not allowed to take or give rights, it's not theirs to take or give." Rhodey sadly is one of many "pragmatic" military folks I've encountered throughout the years that thinks that certain level of what is essentially tyranny are allowable. Which is honestly fucked up.

Both sides have a point in the debate Iron Man was taking full responsibility for his actions, such as his role in Ultron's creation and how they need to be hold accountable and if they don't sign the Sokovia Accords, it will come back to haunt them with farther more consequences, which make them no better than the bad guys, such as the times when his weapons falls into the wrong hands. Captain America has faith in his own judgment than that of politics and how they won't have a choice if they sign the Sokovia Accords. He's also right about how you can't force someone to do something against their will and documents, such as Sokovia Accords, will just keep changing and they will continue to change until you have no other choice.

@jj_grabes

2 жыл бұрын

The main thing that turns me away from Iron Man’s side is putting superheroes under government control. I completely agree with the idea of contingencies against them, I just don’t believe the government is the most optimal body to do that. It’s as susceptible to corruption and manipulation as anything or anyone else. Steve said it perfectly: what if they were sent somewhere they weren’t really needed or not allowed to go to where they were?

@GunNr-

2 жыл бұрын

@@jj_grabes Not to mention the history of governments’ human rights violation.

@jj_grabes

2 жыл бұрын

@@GunNr- Don’t forget in the MCU, Hydra infiltrated SHIELD and corrupted it from the inside. I don’t blame Cap for his hesitance (in fact I agree with him). What if you’re unknowingly serving something that’s truly evil?

@livinglegend9709

2 жыл бұрын

@@jj_grabes well that's the weird part I think Tony would've been on top of that because if you remember in the first avengers, Tony was looking at shield to see if they were doing anything dirty and questioned fury multiple times on it

@ryuzhirkov4098

2 жыл бұрын

@@jj_grabes well, if u watch agent of shield, putting oversight on superhuman is understandable as not all superpower human is good. I can say that 70% of superpower human is bad and 30% is good which led to a popuar saying.....Power corrupt people and the oversight is needed for that 70%. Look at us agent after he got the serum, look at the superpower human in agent if shield

“But it’s run by people with agendas. And agendas change” This movie and The Winter Soldier have such poignant and relevant moments and messages that can be applied to our own world and yet far too many people ignore them or don’t see what they truly mean.

@daanvanrijn4117

11 ай бұрын

YES

@pugachevskobra5636

8 ай бұрын

Nigga what? This is a comic book movie lmfao. You taking life lessons from fictional characters now?

@tropicalsadness2407

7 ай бұрын

R/im14andthisisdeep

@shiwoshiwoismyactualname

4 ай бұрын

Bravo Vince Gilligan, you outdid yourself again!

@datboi9539

3 ай бұрын

Most MCU consoomers cheer for the side that wants totalitarianism

Steve has been betrayed by Shield in the Winter Soldier and he was absolutely right to make any judgment on his own He did the right thing by not signing the accords

@theoutlawking9123

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, even The new Black Panther : Wakanda Forever trailer proves he was right. The UN sent troops to attack a Wakandan installation, presumably to steal Vibranium. If The Avengers were still under UN control, it's shit like that that they would be doing or sent to do, yet people still think Tony and the UN were right.

@MMZERO9

Жыл бұрын

@@theoutlawking9123 Well, thanks to a really good lawyer we know now the Accords are now officially repealed.

@theoutlawking9123

Жыл бұрын

@@MMZERO9 Really, that easy to get rid of them huh, more prove that Tony was an idiot.

@jrjunior8468

Жыл бұрын

@@theoutlawking9123 they can easily fight that lol

@Bustuhh

Жыл бұрын

@@theoutlawking9123 the UN didn't send troops to steal anything, the FRENCH did The UN had to green light the use of Sokovia accord signed assets (the avengers), ALSO also the plot of BP2 was stupid anyway Why would the UN nations need to secretly steal a rare metal, when Sam aka the new Captain America, is covered in the metal Shehulk also proved that ANYONE could buy the metal, a random rich guy brags he got his hands on a Wakandan spear? Seriously you expect me to believe the US and other nations of vast wealth couldn't outbid that rich guy or take the spear from him

They’re both right. That’s what makes this film so good. Tony is right because signing the document is the only legal thing they can do if they want to continue being heroes. Not to mention the horrible press and negative public image they would receive if they chose anything BUT signing, not to mention their future actions would be seen as breaking the law. But Cap is right because the only way heroes can be heroes is if they always do what they believe is right. If you strip away a heroes ability to make the tough choices for the betterment of humanity, you essentially lose all heroes. They cease to exist in their purest and most efficient form. Not to mention the sokovia accords are no doubt laced with fine print, manipulation, and micromanagement. Incredible film. Still a superhero flick while feeling grounded and real. One of the best MCU movies by a country mile.

@rupertgordonii6623

2 жыл бұрын

Yep ♥️

@DougieYT

2 жыл бұрын

Best comment I’ve ever seen in The MCU

@akino1827

Жыл бұрын

Then where was cap in the first attack in infinity war? I saw Tony. Bruce. Even dr strange and wong😂😂 oh right hiding

@mooshy2

Жыл бұрын

@@akino1827 He was in hiding in Germany. How could he get to New York seconds later to fight the army? Did you even watch the movie? They explain it.

@akino1827

Жыл бұрын

@@mooshy2 I wonder why he was in Germany 🤣🤣🤣

A case of "both sides have a point" and I love it

@jaydenhemans3505

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, it’s about morality

I like how nobody even dares to ask Steve where he is going or try to stop him. He has to be the most respected Avenger ever!

@erikita2095

2 жыл бұрын

as he should

@mrshoutout5114

Жыл бұрын

Because they know he's right

@preciousotoakhia9789

Жыл бұрын

He is the first superhero in the MCU universe and took down bad guys(hydra)

@DamianHowardTV

Жыл бұрын

Well he is the Leader, for a reason. And with good reason, at that.

@prodigy1636

8 ай бұрын

​@@preciousotoakhia9789lol funnily enough, he was also supposed to be the first movie that started the whole MCU but he was too well known in the pool of character marvel studios had their hands so the execs were scared that they might piss off fans if they get details muddy and mess the movies up. So they went with a character with a clean slate and less popularity. And we ended up with Iron Man. (There was also the whole thing of merchandise being one of the biggest revenue streams when a new movie came out and the studio did a test where kids chose their fave toy among a selection and the iron man toy came first so there that lol)

If Bruce was here: Rhodey: Secretary Ross has a congressional medal of honour. Bruce: You mean guy who hunted me like a dog, attacked a college to get me, and got off scot-free? Rhodey: ...

@BardhanProductions

3 ай бұрын

Can't imagine either of Banner or Thor would've sided with Tony, I think the Accords would've never come to pass if they were still there.

@BlackDiamond2718

Ай бұрын

Hence why i never took him seriously.

@sym8774

Ай бұрын

@@BardhanProductionsbanner might have agreed with Tony

@BardhanProductions

Ай бұрын

@@sym8774no chance, he hates Ross and was very skeptical of authority in 2012 Avengers

@wanderlustwarrior

11 күн бұрын

Sam: BOOM.

As an English learner, what Vision explained really rhymes in my ears. Plenty of sat vocabularies to be used in essay. 🤟🏻❤️

@coldramentpm1013

2 жыл бұрын

commensurate! incite! catastrophe! so proud of you

@sakoldvisukh3473

2 жыл бұрын

@@coldramentpm1013 hahahah thanks

@anxiousearth680

2 жыл бұрын

It does sound refined doesn't it.

@fxlja

2 жыл бұрын

Also, props to Paul Bettany on his delivery of those lines. Sounds so smooth

@uyais

2 жыл бұрын

no wonder he snagged Wanda, he’s just that type of guy

Even though there arguing, you can tell they care about each other because when Steve walked away, they were worried. You can tell by there faces, even though they have fights now & then, they always look out for each other. They care about Steve 🥺❤️

@crashpal

Жыл бұрын

They walked out on Tony later too

Steve looks so heartbroken when Nat say that she agrees with Tony

@dhruvmenon6989

2 жыл бұрын

Bruh in the end Nat sided with Steve and helped Antman, hawkeye, wanda and sam escape from the prison. Coz afterall they are best friends

@tomiwaidris23

2 жыл бұрын

cause of what happened in the winter soldier, he saw her as one of his best friends

@BlackDiamond2718

Ай бұрын

The thing is nat is a spy. She blends in regardless of any other reason. It is in her nature.

tony felt personal blame for the innocent lives taken AS HE SHOULD. in the mcu many villains originate because of the arrogant and irresponsible decisions tony makes. in this scenario being ultron, but steve is right. agendas change everyday, and we’ve all seen how corrupted the government can be. i mean look at hydra infiltrating shield for all those years. innocent people died but by the actions and consequences of tony and the villains, more people would have died if they didn’t save the world every time lol. As for the whole bucky thing, i think cap definitely should of told tony about his parents death but i don’t hold it against bucky. he was literally brainwashed and had no control, even tchalla forgave him. steve and bucky were bestfriends for over 70 years of course he chose to help bucky clear his name

@livinglegend9709

2 жыл бұрын

Man in the MCU and comics Tony never truly wins. He saves the day but in doing so creates another villain adding on to his problems And the only thing people do is blame him. the only course he had to save everyone was the snap. Mans was living a tragedy since avengers 1

@babarejr9358

2 жыл бұрын

Not really tony saved the day in avengers 1 but he was the only to see the menace of thanos coming, he said it to strange "thanos has been in my mind for 6 years". In the process to avoid the snap he made mistakes with ultron but he was right in theory. They should have prepare the earth more

@jonathanmartinez3956

2 жыл бұрын

@@babarejr9358 but tony should have talk to his team rather than do things on his own.

@harrambou9468

Жыл бұрын

T’challa forgave Bucky bc there was nothing Bucky did to T’Challa TO forgive... But your point still stands.

@ain3sh

Жыл бұрын

@@harrambou9468 he killed his dad

Tony's face at 3:05 tells you everything you need to know about who won this argument. Perfect rebuttal by Steve. Deep down Tony knows Steve is right. The great thing about this movie was that both sides had great points and ultimately no side was "right". But Steve won this argument, at least in this particular scene.

@iggy8340

2 жыл бұрын

He seems more annoyed at Steve trying to defend his side than him losing the argument, and if we're really looking at faces we can see the horrified reactions to Tony showing them what happened to Charles Spencer since it was a good reality check and the most likely reason for Wanda to be on his side.

@blindninja9149

2 жыл бұрын

Steve did a 1v3 in this argument

@harrambou9468

Жыл бұрын

@@iggy8340 Limitations are an absolute, as Tony said. The UN are NOT the people to set such limitations, as Steve was trying to say.

@jackmccarthy8963

Жыл бұрын

@@blindninja9149 then Stark did a 1v2 in combat. Not always fair lmao.

@mrshoutout5114

Жыл бұрын

Tony handed the Avengers over to the Government

I love the little reactions from cheadle and mackie when bettany starts talking. Both in good faith with open minds but both totally aligned with how they feel. Great stuff

1:28 how manipulative Tony. "Oh a kid died during The Ultron fight because of the robot i created and the Avengers had to stop." Also Ross speaks bs, -Had the Avengers not stopped the New York battle the goverment would've nuked the whole city (causing even more civilian deaths) -if Cap hadn't stopped the Helicarriers in Washington a lot of people would've died because Hydra was attempting to kill a lot of poeple all at once. -Why would anyone in their right mind would like to sign the accords?

@sakhinaik8910

2 жыл бұрын

I don't read that as Tony being manipulative (at least not consciously). The civilian cost of his actions has clearly plagued him since Sokovia, maybe before. Charles Spencer's mom coming up to Tony and blaming him personally for her son's death is clear manipulation but I don't think she's wrong for it. Both Tony and Charles' mom are coming from places of guilt and grief and they are trying to come to terms with that to do right by the people they lost. I'm on Cap's side of this debate but I think Tony's side is very justified in their thinking.

@CameraPunk5049

2 жыл бұрын

@@sakhinaik8910 Not really, in the comics this aspect of him being manipulative has been touched in a lot of stories. Just to name a few: -Spiderman live story issue 5 -Captain America/Ironman casualties of war (a tie in during civil war). -World War Hulk -Superior Ironman -And in a lot of other comics.

@aaronburnette9569

2 жыл бұрын

@@CameraPunk5049 that is comics. This is a cinematic universe that gains inspiration from comics. Literally it doesn’t go by the book entirely

@CameraPunk5049

2 жыл бұрын

@@aaronburnette9569 Nope but it has a few important elements from the comics like Cap's ideals or Ironman's manipulative behavior.

@privatezeron

2 жыл бұрын

Natasha in this scene gave the best reasoning why. It's basically a PR stunt.

I love how each character's personality shines out during their individual moments to contribute.

I'm on Cap side. All the accords do is the government receives all the praise if a mission goes well, and the heroes receive all the blame if a mission goes badly. As proven in Falcon and Winter Solider with John Walker. They made a new Captain America, hoping that the American people will feel safe that their government is protecting them. But when John killed a flagsmasher, the government put all the blame on John and did not take any responsibility. Even though they're not in the room I have a feeling Banner, Thor, Strange, Lange and Pym will not sign because they don't trust the government. New Edit: This is the Marvel universe and every country is signing these accords. So what if Latvira is one of these countries and Dr. Doom is in charge? He could manipulate the accords to his favor. The possibilities are endless for him.

@theapex560

2 жыл бұрын

1000% agree.

@jaredruff9823

2 жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right. Even before Falcon and Winter Soldier, I was still on Cap's side. Also, I don't think the Accords would apply to Thor anyway, because he's not of Earth.

@XIN_920

2 жыл бұрын

Cap is worthy so what he thinks and does is always right!!

@theapex560

2 жыл бұрын

@@XIN_920 1000% agree. Added with another 1000% agreed. Maybe 5 more.

@therealmistahjay

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaredruff9823 if Thor didn’t comply, the govt. would declare him as an enemy and probably force the Avengers to go after him via the Accords. Just as they would/did Wanda. Hence why, Steve is right.

Having just come off WandaVision, I have some observations to note: First, during Vision's explanation of why oversight cannot simply be dismissed, Wanda is looking straight at him when he is speaking and doesn't take her eyes off him ONCE. Also, when he pauses after saying "Oversight..." he makes eye-contact with everyone listening to him, and I don't think it's a stretch to say his first glance (directed to someone directly next to him) was to Wanda. And that's to say nothing about: "You're saying they'll come for me." "We would protect you." These two were in love FAR longer than the scene in Scotland at the beginning of Infinity War; WandaVision speaks to that specifically, but you can see hints along the way in Civil War--even in this scene where those two aren't even the main focus. They LOVE each other.

@Izzybellebelle

Жыл бұрын

Now I’m sad.

@theoutlawking9123

Жыл бұрын

He's a damn machine, a toaster is more alive. Making them a couple was the dumbest decision of the MCU.

@ShadowSonic2

Жыл бұрын

​@@theoutlawking9123Blame the comics then.

@theoutlawking9123

Жыл бұрын

@@ShadowSonic2 Even in the comics it was stupid, that's why it ended and they haven't "been together" since. So no, blame the idiot writers of the MCU who thought putting this in live-action was a good idea.

@SBandy

5 ай бұрын

​​@@theoutlawking9123 Aye it is completely unrealistic unlike the rest of the MCU.

Funny how no one is acknowledging that without the intervention of the avengers, the world would cease to exist.

@Xylarxcode

8 ай бұрын

No one is saying The Avengers shouldn't exist or act when needed. They're arguing about how and when to act and who should be carrying the responsibility of their actions. If the world was truly in peril, they would be given the green light to act, regardless of who's in charge, but right now, no one is taking responsibility for what they're doing or when they're doing it. They just walk around like they own the place and go wherever they think they're needed most and get people killed. Their families are looking for closure and someone to take responsibility and make amends for that and there's just no one to be found.

This scene is so well scripted and well written i forgot it was an mcu film for a second, one of the most underrated scenes of the mcu.

@tjsherpa

11 ай бұрын

Russo brothers debut for ya. Even with infinity war and adding magical space creatures etc did they make it somewhat intriguing.

@kgthakid2911

8 ай бұрын

@@tjsherpawasn’t Winter Soldier their debut?

@tjsherpa

8 ай бұрын

@@kgthakid2911 yeah it was. Awesome flick that made it more grounded than the other films. Inevitably marvel had to include magic with talkin ducks n lot of cgi of course

I'm with Cap on this one, especially when it comes to the Avengers' right to choose when to protect and serve and how they do so! What if the government asks Stark to build a weapon and he doesn't want to because he's afraid of it being in the wrong hands? Stark won't have a choice if he signs, which he did. He could go to jail and the government will make a weapon like his anyway. Like Cap said, what of they need to be somewhere, like a monster attacking a town, but can't? In the end, the Avengers are left with a what if and more people die. Cap is absolutely right. The best hands when it comes to handling the Avengers is, well the Avengers, not the government

@toneytorado5520

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly

@icandothisallday986

2 жыл бұрын

Captain America is in the right. There is no debate. There are only two possible reason some fans are on Tony's side: (1) they want to believe that there is a debate. But in truth, there is no debate. Captain America's views on the accords are 100% correct. (2) the fans are just pissed that Capt didn't tell Tony about bucky killing his parents.

@DR901-34

2 жыл бұрын

@@icandothisallday986 Or they put themselves in the shoes of the mother and father that had to bury their child that was off to college, all because Hulk decided to throw the car they were in at the bad guy in his fit of rage lol. Trust me if superpowered heroes and villians were real like these jokers, there would be alot of funerals and a low life expectancy. People would treat them the same way they treat cops. Imagine working in at your office desk and Thor's hammer just comes flying through your head all because he misplaced it.

@icandothisallday986

Жыл бұрын

@@DR901-34 your argument falls apart as we are discussing the case of Earths where villains exist.

@DR901-34

Жыл бұрын

@@icandothisallday986 we have villains in the world we live in now. But I'll give you a wild left field scenario, so just humor me. Let's say a cop was in a shootout with a guy that just shot 3-5 people. The cop grabs a human shield to better protect themselves while getting a better shot, because he has absolutely no cover and he's the last line of defense. The cop ends up killing the villain, but the bullet sponge didn't make it. Do we reward the cop and the deceased human shield for preventing even more deaths and let him continue making those decisions, or do we hold the cop accountable for a reckless decision that got another innocent person killed in the process?

13 years and 27 films of MCU movies, and this is still my favourite scene out of the entire catalogue. Each position every character takes is in line with their actions and the trauma they experienced in previous movies - every stance makes sense. It feels feels EARNED, which is something the DCEU will never match. I don't want to make this a Marvel vs. DC thing - I just want to point out that the DCEU will always be a reaction to the success of the MCU. They're better nowadays, trying weirder and more wonderful stuff - but back in 2016, everything DC did felt so...unearned and disingenuous. This scene, in my opinion, encapsulates what made the MCU successful over the DCEU.

"How long are you gonna play both sides?" I don't think anyone realized how much a deep cut that was from Sam. Had Vision not intervene, the argument between Sam and Rhodey would've needed interference from Steve xD

@erikita2095

3 ай бұрын

pls elaborate i didn’t get what he meant

@frozenray0079

3 ай бұрын

@@erikita2095 War Machine is both an Avenger at this point in he series, but he is also still a colonel in the US Air Force. As a former member of the military, Sam just called Rhodey out on his inability to pick one side or the other. When Tony was asked in Iron Man 2 to cooperate with the government to fall under a branch of military service, he declined. In Captain American 2, Steve defected from SHIELD and adamently sought its destruction. Almost all the Avengers stand on a side, regardless of which....but Rhodey won't, or can't.

I liked the Civil War comic but I actually LOVED the movie. I didn't think the comic had two sides, at the least this movie caused debates. It had two sides. Exactly what Civil War needs.

Tony: "Did I miss hear you or did you just agree with me?" I'm surprised she agreed with him also

@aquariusm.910

2 жыл бұрын

That was jus for the marketing of the movie to make her on team ironman (so that both teams had 6 memebers), but in character she would've stood by Cap's side like she did in Captain America the winter soldier and like she eventually did when she betrayed ironman.

@N0URii

2 жыл бұрын

She's just good at looking for opportunities, i mean she's a spy

@cipher-one

2 жыл бұрын

@@aquariusm.910 Not really. Natasha's has enough smarts to understand that the Accords were gonna happen with or without the Avengers approval and the best they could do was try to work it in their favor. Of course at heart she was opposed to them.

@Spidervenom23

2 жыл бұрын

@@cipher-one Also, Remember what her goal was in the movie and the MCU as whole was To Keep the Family Together, no Matter the Cost to herself. She's Probably Hates the Accords and Ross more then anyone since Ross Screwed with her Ex-BoyFriend and The Accords Makes her job a lot more harder then it had to be as a spy but She doesn't care about that. All She Cares about is the save Thing she cared about in the First Avengers Movie and A.OU. Her Family the Avengers and keeping them together unlike her Red Room Family.

they're both right, but the avengers and the un should sit together to make a collective agreement. the UN can't understand them but the avengers can't understand them either . idk just my opinion, their freedom shouldn't be taken away but neither should they be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, that doesn't seem like freedom it seems like abuse of power.

As amazing as the highway chase, airport fight and final confrontation scenes are… this was the best scene in the movie in my opinion… it was a huge moment from Tony’s character development and everyone had a superb performance, the dialogue was really well written and RDJ’s line delivery was perfect when he told them all about Charles Spencer, he’s still talking like Tony and keeping things relatively calm but he’s holding back so much anger and guilt and you can see it slipping through without being too much… So underrated

In a world where governments are held accountable for their misdeeds, Tony would be have a point. We don't live in such a world, and they don't either. Cap said it -- all the accords does is shift the blame to someone else when something goes wrong, while at the same time being at the whims of bureaucrats. It _is,_ however, arrogant to say "my judgement is better than someone else's" and that is a good point. But putting that judgement in the hands of a council motivated by countless strings of special interests, is simply the worse choice.

@jj_grabes

Жыл бұрын

My sentiment exactly. Especially when you take into account the same people who want to control the Avengers nearly bombed New York and ushered in a police state. Contingencies against people like the Avengers are warranted, but I’d never trust people like Ross to do that.b Maybe something along the lines of Batman’s plans to take down the Justice League is more warranted, but at the same time that probably warrants further discussion.

My favorite thing about this who ordeal is the fact that the Sokovia Accords was made by the government. The same one that: - Wanted to nuke Manhattan during Avengers. - Created the Abomination. - Secretly had Hydra inside of S.H.E.I.L.D.

People, these are two valid points. People who are against Tony, he represents accountability, consequences for their action. Every one is saying what if they should've been sent somewhere but the government decides otherwise in Cap's defense , but what if they went somewhere where they should not have been gone which escalated the situation even further. If they were under control then this should not have happened. Bounder Less they are no better than the villains themselves. Coming to Cap's side, he also has a valid argument that signing these accords may mean giving away your free will to decide. They may be used for things they shouldn't have been used for. Tony and Cap are two sides of the same coin, and the coin goes beyond the conventional black or white, the good or bad side.

@joshuachambers2927

Жыл бұрын

The only weird part is that Tony and Caps sides should be reversed. Cap is usually more pro government you would assume and Tony more anti government control. I guess that scene with that kids mom may have effected Tony and changed what his stance would have been.

@jj_grabes

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuachambers2927 I think their arcs in their respective films address this. Captain America learned the price of blind loyalty in TWS upon seeing HYDRA come back after corrupting SHIELD for nearly a century. Iron Man say first hand the price of unchecked recklessness when he created Ultron, who would nearly exterminate mankind.

@trivonnereid769

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuachambers2927 isn't that ironic huh

@gorrium5027

3 ай бұрын

Both are equally valid and paradoxically correct at the same time. Everyone truly believes in their side... except for Tony. He often ignores the accords and only supports them because he wants to escape accountability.

@BlackDiamond2718

Ай бұрын

Stark caused age of ultron in the first place. That is why i could never side with him. Accountability is vital for understanding that there is no time to celebrate. People died and damage was done. But they needed proper oversight and leadership instead of being restrained or being unleashed.

Except the whole Sokovia mess was completely Tony’s fault to begin with because he was the one who created Ultron

@alexcoleridge1476

3 жыл бұрын

He's not arguing against that. He's accepting his mistake and fighting for the accords.

@maxfrankow1238

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexcoleridge1476 and making others pay for his mistake...

@cfoy3

3 жыл бұрын

Wanda has a huge responsibility for that as well. This movie shows why some of accountability is needed. That way steve cant force his own agenda, protect bucky, on everyone else.

@thelegend3965

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexcoleridge1476 to be fair, lots of people have made mistakes trying to do the right thing, Tony was trying to prepare for the future battle ahead.

@bivamshukhadka8953

3 жыл бұрын

@@maxfrankow1238 every Avenger has made mistakes and others have paid for it. Tony's not the only one.

Holy Guacamole the dialogue in this scene is dang near perfect (chef's kiss). They characterize each Avenger perfectly in their speech mannerisms, both verbal and nonverbal, all while managing to make them make seriously legit, coherent, believable arguments. In most action movies, doing one is hard. They did both. Major props to the scriptwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, and obviously the incredible actors too.

One reason why I am team iron man is because throughout the movie tony was trying to compromise and find a middle ground that steve could accept and steve just wasn't hearing it. Maybe the document isn't perfect but it doesn't stop spiderman from helping people in homecoming and I think the world having a say in how the avengers work is a completely reasonable idea. If I lived in the mcu I wouldn't be comfortable with enhanced people routinely breaking the law even if they are trying to do the right thing. Steve's belief that he knows better than everyone else is incredible arrogant and dangerous.

@elinixon1548

3 жыл бұрын

then why are you team cap?

@cfoy3

3 жыл бұрын

@@elinixon1548 sorry typo!

@errant3

3 жыл бұрын

"f I lived in the mcu I wouldn't be comfortable with enhanced people routinely breaking the law even if they are trying to do the right thing" Funny given what ross did for the hulk and what he's doing now. Steve is right and he has proof for his belief. Hydra inside the government and what they want to do for Bucky, which is simply throwing him in a jail for ever and goodbye.

@kostyaloneman2034

3 жыл бұрын

So heres my two sense of it all. Im on caps side for the reason cap is saying. To be somewhere you dont need to be or knowing you need to go somewhere but being forced not go. You have no choice when you sign and id rather choose the wrong choice or make a mistake with said choice rather than have someone choose the choice for me.

@cfoy3

3 жыл бұрын

@@kostyaloneman2034 how much help is he being constantly ok the run breaking the law? Steve is staying a false dichotomy. As if by not signing he can continue to operate how ever we wants when that is not the choice. The choice is between helping while working with the UN, again he could have worked with tony to make a document that would have been fair to everyone but didn't even try, and nothing. Also I think you could have removed the accords from the movie and the results would not have been different. Steve did not do what he did because of philosophical reasons. He had an agenda, save bucky, and to hell with everyone else. By not compromising he effectively ruined the lives of scott, wanda, sam, and natasha.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that even if their own government sucked, 180 countries wanted this. Most of them are probably not Hydra influenced. Most governments represent their people's interest in foreign policies because otherwise, they lose the vote. Besides, I hated all my governments but I would never think vigilantes are the way to go.

@TJ22_83

2 жыл бұрын

117* countries

@cyborg3696

2 жыл бұрын

Considered how ross treated them, nah this is just wrong

@shouryamukherjee9854

2 жыл бұрын

But agendas can change. If it happened to the US government, it could happen to the UN. What if the UN decides to weaponize the Avengers? The Accords take away the Avengers' right to choose what is right and wrong. If this were the real world, I would agree with Tony, but I will trust a war hero who once sacrificed his life for millions of people and who is literally worthy enough to lift Thor's hammer over any number of politicians, when it comes to protecting the public.

@laurajackson1303

2 жыл бұрын

For reals they were under the watch of world security council anyway

@frostbyte4987

2 жыл бұрын

Just look at how really effective UN is at managing ANYTHING lol.

Cap could just resign. He isn’t forced to do anything, he’s an employee if he signs. I also think that the “safest hands are our own” part is stupid. Superpowers doesn’t mean super decision making. He’s Captain America, not King of the World.

I feel like that's more of a phone call than a text

@dalayakennedy2551

2 жыл бұрын

“I understood that reference”.

Tony’s speech always gets to me in the scene

“He wanted to make a difference I suppose I mean we won’t know because we dropped a building on him while we were kicking ass” only tony could make death a joke 😭

@Dctctx

Жыл бұрын

He wasn’t making a joke.

@Dctctx

Жыл бұрын

@@rich0129 I appreciate that Tony mentioned that they killed someone. So many movies and superhero groups will destroy a city and completely ignore the collateral damage

@rich0129

Жыл бұрын

@@Dctctx Yea I thought it was a great way of showing perspective to the other avengers by Tony. To them it just looked like some epic fights, avengers vs the enemy but they never stopped to realize there were a ton of normal people negatively affected

@107thinfantry6

Жыл бұрын

​@@rich0129 they always realized. Steve was always on the ground helping civilians get to safety while Tony was flying around kicking ass. It's just that Tony let's guilt drive him

@Xylarxcode

8 ай бұрын

Not a joke. He was using that guy as an example. There are thousands more like him. People that died in New York in 2012, people that died in Sokovia in 2015, people that died in Washington in 2014, people that died in Harlem when Hulk rampaged through it back in 2008 and so many more. Tony feels guilt. Innocent people that had no beef with the Avengers or with the guys they were fighting died, just because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The kid died because he wanted to do the right thing and spend a summer in Sokovia helping the less fortunate, just when the Ultron event happened there and ended his life. And he's just one of many. Zemos, the main antagonist of this movie, has his motives because of what happened in Sokovia. The Ultron event took the lives of his family. It's not a joke, it's a point. They should be carrying the responsibility of the lives that were lost due to collateral damage caused by the Avengers and they're not. No one is held responsible for what happened. In this case, Tony's guilt is made even worse because he created Ultron. Everything that happened there is his fault. At least, that's how he sees it.

I can’t get over that Rhoddy’s first line is a argument from authority, “sec Ross has a medal of honour, therefore he’s right” a logical fallacy. His second line is a appeal to popularity, and a argument from authority, “117 countries agree therefore it’s right” another logical fallacy. Logical fallacies are a way to argue without arguing. To invalidate the debate rather than having it. Rhoddy is saying the accords are right without saying anything about the accords themselves. It’s a con trick in debates make arguments that sound impressive initially but when scrutinised logically you find they never actually address the issue directly. Rhoddy never really says anything about the accords he’s just tries to invalidate and intimidate the opposition by name dropping his allies’ and their credentials.

@ratman202

2 жыл бұрын

Thank god we got Ben Shapiro here

@jimmy2k4o

2 жыл бұрын

@@ratman202 what a lovely compliment but I’ve never let a a rabbi cut my junk.

@ratman202

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimmy2k4o Right. It wouldn't be the *logical* thing to do.

@jimmy2k4o

2 жыл бұрын

@@ratman202 one could argue it is logical. Since it has medical benefits and hardly any downsides, it’s also hygienic. But I remember that line in Judgment at Nuremberg when spencer Tracy is told the Nazis he imprisoned for life will probably be released in ten years because of the current political climate. “You may be right, it may be logical that those men will be released in the next ten years but to be logical is not to be right, and there isn’t any power on earth that can make it right.” But I still wouldn’t want it done unless I was old enough to give informed consent, and I’d want it done by a surgeon not a rabbi. While I do look up to Ben Shapiro (figuratively of course) I don’t agree with him on everything, but I don’t have to have identical thought to somebody in order to like and respect them.

@ratman202

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimmy2k4o Wow you really destroyed my argument with facts and logic

Love the bit about ‘giving up’. Tony can be said to be acting a little on guilt. He created Ultron and it got people killed. So he feels the need to punish himself. Steve is a WW2 veteran. Theres no doubt there were some vile shit he saw but failed to stop. So he understands how to handle that guilt and that true accountability in this case would be to keep moving forward in the name of those that were lost. What a great movie.

Team Cap was right and won!

I love how this movie didn’t point fingers at who was right. They were both right and wrong in their own way. The government didn’t need to regulate the Avengers, but there needed to be some regulation there.

Daredevil saying the Sokovia accords is surreal. 😂😂

I love how everyone says both sides are right. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Okay, if Tony was right about having government oversight why did he immediately go behind their backs to go to Siberia and help Steve? It was EXACTLY what Steve warned Tony about. “What if there’s somewhere we need to go, and they won’t let us?” So Tony does EXACTLY that by the end of the movie. And he even has the arrogance to say to Steve, “Ross doesn’t know I’m here, I’d like to keep it that way.” Guys, this was never going to work. Steve knew it, and it was proven that he was right by the end of the movie. 🤦🏻‍♂️😂

@BeautyMonster1000

2 жыл бұрын

I agreed with Steve from the beginning anyway. He made really good points. Tony was just being stupid because he felt guilty about killing people accidently, especially that kid he talks about in this clip.

@rainfall2880

2 жыл бұрын

@@BeautyMonster1000 except Tony was directly involved in their deaths because he is the one that created Ultron. He wants restrictions to keep everyone from making majors mistakes out of self-interests

@epicfan1598

2 жыл бұрын

@@rainfall2880 No tony was not directly responsible for their deaths. He created ultron sure but he wasn't the one who killed the people nor did he tell them to get killed

@afiaa2127

2 жыл бұрын

tony is right as well and Wanda is literally a perfect example why. forget CW, do u remember what she did in wandavision? when there are heros as strong as the avengers, there need to be some kind of opposition to keep them in check when necessary. the gov might not have been the perfect option, but the thought is still correct. also iron man going again Ross to see cap is a stupid argument to use, bc that was not a situation where lives were in danger and the gov didn't let them save them. tony just wanted to see cap, who was a fugitive, that's all. so you can't compare that to a situation where there's an actual threat.

@ajdominguez1002

2 жыл бұрын

Steve had faults, too. He was trying to hold on to the old world that he knew. He did it so recklessly to the point that police action had to occur. He says our hands are our safest, but as soon as Bucky got involved, he started throwing hands at his lesser friends. Also, as bad as Tony was going behind their backs, Steve hid a nuke of a secret. Zemo found it, and used it to his advantage. Had it been told earlier, Tony may have even been willing to help Steve clear Bucky's name and seek help. But then, where would Phase 3? ...

Its funny how eventually everyone who signed the accords ended up breaking them. Guess my boy Steve was right all along.

Power that must be controlled versus Freedom that must be protected I will always side with freedom.

@hurtsaa196

2 жыл бұрын

Freedom to infiltrate any country at will. Then start fighting when world's destruction at stake without noticing to any goverment. Just brainwash citizens to evacuate i guess

@BeautyMonster1000

2 жыл бұрын

​@@hurtsaa196 They "fight" to save people from dying, which is completely reasonable. If they never fought, which is literally their job, a lot more people would die.

@kaz7690

2 жыл бұрын

@@hurtsaa196 yeah maybe they should’ve just let the government blow up NYC instead. Cause that definitely would’ve resulted in less casualties am I right?

@animeaddict4999

2 жыл бұрын

@@BeautyMonster1000 nobody is telling them not to fight, rather they're telling them that they need to take responsibility for their actions and be regulated as to not take advantage of their powers.

@elliottpowell5130

Жыл бұрын

The problem is who’s control in that power ? politicians with agendas and they’ll abuse that power for those agendas and of course more power

3:25 😂😂 "Aren't you the same woman who told the government to kiss her ass a few years ago?" - Falcon 2016 Natasha hilariously got roasted by Sam's question.

I’m sorry Ross who were the ones who tried to nuke the entire city during the Loki invasion?

I really hope they don’t forget moments like this, the most interesting part of superhero media is the characters just talking to each other.

Tony annoys me in Civil War, he's like a kid that does something stupid, despite his friends warning him not to, and when he or someone else got hurt because of it, he lectutres the others about how dangerous that thing they warned him about is. Everyone, except Banner (after constant persusasion and pestering), thougut what Tony did with Ultron was irresponisble and bad, which directly led to Sokovia, and yet he decides to lecture everyone on why they should be controlled, rather than free, despite the problem lying with him. The idea of any government controlling the Avengers is stupid, Tony should've realised he should just float his ideas by the team, rather than sneakily conduct tests and experiments, then tell the team when everything goes bad.

Like imagine Loki is killing all the people in New York and The Avengers watching TV while eating popcorn waiting for UN's permission to engage !

@ibrahimkalmati9379

Жыл бұрын

Imagine you loose your family because avengers mission goes wrong and innocent peoples die because avengers didn't bother to inform government and violated international laws

@dewolf123

Жыл бұрын

​@ibrahim kalmati Basically what happened to Zemo which is why he became the villain in this movie to get revenge on him and then off himself after he succeeded

Easily one of the best Marvel scenes for me, from vision's lines to Tony's justification as to why he wants to sign the accords. just the fact that there are still people in the comments arguing who was right, team cap vs team iron man, after almost half a decade after this movie, just goes to show how much impact this had on the fanbase and also on Marvel's overall narrative, if you think about it, marvel's course was just upwards and onwards beyond civil war. Nobody can handle the Avengers as well as the Russos

The accords is such a silly debate. Ross New York, Washington, Sokovia. Cap oh yeah you mean those times I fought aliens, Nazis, and robots. I feel terrible about participating in those fights. Please regulate my every movement going forward.

@jeremyanderson6789

3 жыл бұрын

I hate evil ross

@yusaidit5311

3 жыл бұрын

ikr. It's like, ah yes, you saved the world here, here, and here, as such please surrender your powers.

@jeremyanderson6789

2 жыл бұрын

Politics is a joke.

Lots of people saying "Both sides were right"... when no, it's very clear given the context here, and what ended up happening in the MCU? Cap was right. Stark was wrong. The Sokovia accords were a power grab by Secretary Ross, and nothing more, and Tony was manipulated into signing them by his guilt. The Sokovia took the power to act away from The Avengers, and gave it to Politicians; which are the most corrupt people on the face of the planet. Cap was absolutely right to oppose them, and Rhodey and Stark's argument against him were an appeal to authority.

@spritvio639

Жыл бұрын

The problem with Tony's point of view is that he was thinking ideally rather than realistically. Ideally the Avengers should have some form of oversight because thier fights were causing tragedy like what Ross showed. Realistically the government is full of shady people and would likely try to abuse the Avengers' powers for thier benefit.

0:37 Are you sure about that Vision? Sounds like confusing correlation with causation. While it is true, that is seems that the more active heroes become, the bigger the threat that emerges. However, heroes inviting the very threat they fight, is not the only conclusion to be drawn from that statistic. Perhaps it is the reverse. Perhaps seeing the increasing threat, creates a need for remarkable people. And those remarkable people rise up to that need. Perhaps, SHIELD was right to predict that they needed heroes to fight the battles that the mundane world is woefully unprepared for. I can argue that this second conclusion makes more sense. Avengers 1, the Chitauri didn't come for the avengers. Loki would still act as he did, even without them. It was because the avengers that they were stopped.

@chunkycat1649

2 жыл бұрын

there also dormamu that tried to have earth as his lunch for a couple of hundred years also before avenger there the master of mystic art, Odin, captain marvel(ish), the avenger was not even born when earth start getting is ass aim at

@user-vo1yu6hb1v

2 жыл бұрын

Like imagine Loki is killing all the people in New York and The Avengers watching TV while eating popcorn waiting for UN's permission to engage !

@feetwithtoesjoe8875

2 жыл бұрын

While causation may not be an accurate term for some of the avengers conflicts, it definitely can be used in the case of Ultron. Vision is right but not wholly. I can definitely understand his internal conflict with this matter.

@afiaa2127

2 жыл бұрын

I do agree with what your saying, but I do think vision also has a point. them fighting against bad guys also creates villains, like in the iron man trilogy and in the first 2 spider man movies (Tom Holland's spidey) and even zemo. so I think it's both. they stop villains who have nothing to so with them, but at the same time they create more villains and invite people to challenge them simply by existing

@chunkycat1649

2 жыл бұрын

@@afiaa2127 you have a point but your point have another point which 5 of 6 example you gave all cause by Tony, UN shouldn't worry bout the Avenger they should worry about mfuking Tony running around causing problem, Ultron was also his fault

Capt is in the right.

0:59 - 1:06 this scene is incredibly underrated. shows the friendship of both Tony and Cap in a small but neat way

A lot of people think endgame and iron man 1 have RDJs best performances but I think this film is really slept on when it comes to his portrayal of iron man, he’s actually one of the best parts of this film and gives an excellent performance that in my opinion stands out from the others, he sold the guilt and trauma Tony felt perfectly in this film

This situation is no different from the real world. I'm in agreeance with Cap Rogers on this one.

@SpFlash1523

2 жыл бұрын

Same.

@selenarodgers5667

2 жыл бұрын

Me too, not going to be forced somewhere that I don’t want to go, and having my freedom lock down just because to get the public’s trust again, no way. I’m with Cap 👍

@Shrektopuz

Жыл бұрын

@@selenarodgers5667 I’m Team Tony, and I get what you’re saying, but they’re the Avengers… You think the government can hold them back if they choose not to follow orders?

@selenarodgers5667

Жыл бұрын

@@Shrektopuz I get what you saying but it’s all about control, if every member what have sign it, they wouldn’t have a life anymore.

@preciousotoakhia9789

Жыл бұрын

@@selenarodgers5667 I agree with cap I mean look at US women have no right to abortion which is a big deal

Cap was right here, tbh it felt kind of forced that Tony, Nat and Rhodes supported the accords just out of shame

@animeaddict4999

2 жыл бұрын

it's well put guilt, due to their mistakes, their battles, they put hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions of civilians lives at risk without taking any responsibility afterwards. Tony knows it better than anyone there, he saw how his mistakes affected other people's lives (ironman 1) and lived with the guilt and tried to correct his wrongs.

@sathisharajah

2 жыл бұрын

@@animeaddict4999 except its 'his' mistakes. If he wants to make it up to it, i dunno dun come into the battlefield. Retire? Instead of that, you want the WHOLE team to suffer because of your bloody actions? Lol

@rainfall2880

2 жыл бұрын

@@sathisharajah cant believe we still debating this after 5 years

@Spidervenom23

2 жыл бұрын

Nat wasn't doing this "In Sham" Like Tony and Rhodes was. She was just trying to keep her Family Together the best way she could at the time. The Problem was that Ross Ruin that dream for her when he said "To Kill Rogers, Wilson, and Barnes".

@yestho7743

2 жыл бұрын

@@sathisharajah No tony= no avengers. Also, don't act like tony is the only one who made mistakes

" If we sign this we surrender our right to choose.." Powerful

Love this movie so much. There really was no right answer

Steve is correct but only from his position, he has the highest moral character and he knows exactly what he thinks needs to be done. Everyone else in the room doesn’t have that and cant just see the best thing that needs to be done

This is the scene which sets a example for seriousness in the MCU Movies, and we need more like these in the upcoming films!

@moso299

Ай бұрын

Note the number of A-list or future A-list, award-winning and award-nominated actors gathered into this scene (Oscars, BAFTAs, SAG, various critics' awards, etc.). It's a serious drama with no action, and each actor gets to show their acting chops, playing off each other. Each person's performance gives a different, unique personality. (And that's with Oscar-nominees Ruffalo and Renner excluded.) Marvel compiled a lot of talent for a series of comic book movies.

@ironspidey7137

Ай бұрын

wisely said!@@moso299

I understand both points but Steve is right! At least for a world like this and with the kind of people that they are… “the safest hands are still our own”… There are all manner of threats to the world and the Avengers are the people who’re in the best position to protect others from it. Waiting on the orders of some UN council to sign off on a mission every single time there’s conflict somewhere wastes valuable time. Villains would take advantage of that and innocent people that could’ve been saved would die. If Tony wants oversight on HIMSELF for building Ultron and being indirectly responsible for Sokovia then he’s welcome to do that. But he didn’t have the right to force the whole team into being looked after.

I wish the mcu coulda dealt with this issue more. It was isolated to this movie and I feel there’s more to work with.

0:04 Tony's face expression is 100% priceless as a meme while Sam & Rhodey are talking. 😂

Been rewatching Captain America and this was something I already felt when I watched the movies years ago. But damn, this depiction of Cap is how I want Superman to be depicted. Strong in his idealism. Inspirational. Strong in his believes. You could actually model the MCU alongside a DC movie universe. Cap = Supes. Tony = Bats. Civil War did BvS better than BvS.

I seriously wonder how things would have gone down if Thor was there. He doesn’t answer to anyone on Earth, he’d probably just go wherever he felt like it and tell the others to do the same. Hell, he went to London in the Dark World.

@rexqt5337

8 ай бұрын

Thor and banner

I have to agree with Cap here. Nobody should have to sign away their rights. When you give up your ability to make decisions you also give up on allowing yourself to be you.

*Captain Ross:* The Avengers can't have so much freedom, they always make the worst decisions. *Cap. America:* Like when the government decided to drop a nuclear bomb on New York *Falcon:* Or like when they created Abomination for trying to create super soldiers. *Black Widow:* Or like when they let the Yellowjacket be created. *Vision:* Or like when they let Hydra take control of his extra-governmental organization called S.H.I.E.L.D *War Machine:* Or like when they tried to steal Tony's weapons through "politics" *Iron-Man:* Guys, the government and I know what's best. *Cap. America:* Ultron... *Iron-Man:* I shut up

@SmashSSL

Жыл бұрын

*Character:* Out of character line.

@caleblee8783

Жыл бұрын

The problems of the USA are not the problem of all 117 countries. The Avengers had nothing to be disgusted with. Almost the whole world was for control. They are either criminals or trying to save the world even with restrictions.

My absolute favorite scene in this film, one of my favorites in the whole MCU. Such an interesting exploration of character.

If we sign this, we surrender our right to choose? Think about that when you being coercion to sign a contract. You can always say no. That's your right in America. Can no one take that away from you.

Cap is so based in these movies I almost forget how Chris evans is in real life. Also when vision is giving his argument you can hear a little bit of ultrons logic in there.

0:15 a quick side glance at Wanda ❤

Best and most important scene in the MCU for me. Amazing writing

Where is Betty Ross? We haven’t seen her since Incredible Hulk. I thought she loved Bruce.

@brandon1234

2 жыл бұрын

She will show up in the She Hulk series and Bruce too

@coltafanan

Жыл бұрын

@@brandon1234 supposedly. Has that been confirmed?

Secretary Ross is as much a villain as they come. I definitely would have been on Captain America side.

@ricardoortiz4870

6 ай бұрын

Ross? You mean the guy that wanted to hunt down Hulk and weaponize him?

In my opinion, it's a bad idea to have UN in charge. I mean, lets say there is an emergency (an attack or something like that..) The Avengers have to deal with it and do something as quickly as they can. But if they have to wait to get the UN's premission (who knows how long it would take) probaly followed by strinct instructions... Meaning they are allowed to "do" only a limited number of things (and not the "things" that could be necessary to stop the threat). Plus, all Avengers have experince and are more suited to decide what to do "in the field" than some (old) politicians who sit in their office all day. No, Tony is kind off in the wrong here, even though I can see why he thinks so.

@closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0

2 жыл бұрын

If not the U.N. who?

@wiremuwiniata1216

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah but Tony simply wanted accountability, he planned an making amendments when Cap gave his support. He actually told Steve that together they amend the accords to make sure it was how they wanted it.

@wiremuwiniata1216

2 жыл бұрын

That's not what I'm saying and that's not what Tony wanted, he was pushing for accountability that's all, of course people like Ross couldn't be trusted to handle the Avengers so that's where the ammendments came in. Once amended the Avengers would be accountable to clean up their own mess and only act to prevent world threatening situations. This would ensure that they didn't use their abilities to result in a mess they'd have to clean up (eg. Wanda vision, Ultron).

@KathleenFeliciano

2 жыл бұрын

@@closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0 It be funny if we got to a point in the MCU where former Avengers form a council to help make these decisions. The limitation of having to wait til they're informed and make a decision remains, but at least this "council" has the knowledge and experience of what it means to be an Avenger and make important (perhaps split-second) decisions like that.

@HangMrH

2 жыл бұрын

In tonys mind he can later be the authority so they would have total control over their actions and now it's supported by many nations and it's no longer terrorism or private involvement but a agreed involvement. They can gather support from other nations, hell that's why we have politics in the first place, to negotiate and trade so once another disaster happened they can be somewhat protected bt UN

There was no definite right or wrong answer in this debate Actually it was better than the Comic Civil War, which the Government requires all Super heroes powered or otherwise to Register their identities to the Government before allowing them to continue their work, refusal would mean being incarcerated Which led one faction becoming willing participants of the government and incarcerate anyone who refuses whether they’re villains or not Such a Civil War destroyed communities, and lives, especially Spider-Man who was at Tony’s Side, becoming the Iron Spider, but after seeing how forcing Registration is harming lives, he switched sides, only to have his own life destroyed which became a cause of the Comic Universe Reboot Here in the movie, the Avengers wouldn’t be subservient to one Government, but the whole world under the UN. Which they await permission to act in their superhero work So it is the lesser evil, and in some ways it is understandable The Avengers didn’t cause New York, Washington, Nigeria, Sokovia, they prevented it from being worse, saving the world Still as we seen in movies like Spider-Man Homecoming and Civil War, people are still victim of collateral damage And in Ultron Iron Man was an indirect cause to Sokvia by creating Ultron in the first place. Which is no wonder he felt guilty. But he was unknowingly driven by it by Wanda, then part of HYDRA, who saw his fears and allow him to take the Mind Stone and have it self destruct in the first place The nations of the world want assurance to prevent such tragedies from happening again, and honestly the Accords is more understandable than the Comic Solution However, the reason why Captain America thinks it’s wrong, is more revealed in both Winter Solder and Falcon and Winter Solder. SHIELD was made with the best of intentions, never realizing HYDRA had influtrated as part of their group John Walker was meant to replace Captain America as a symbol of hope after Endgame. But because he was a tool of his government, he tried too hard to meet its interests, and only accelerated the resolve of the Flag Smashers. Steve knew that if the Avengers became servants of the UN, such mistakes would have happened. They would have to delay saving a town, because the UN is voting whether or not they should be allowed to save it. If the Avengers was still around after the Snap, subservient to the Accords, then they’ll be helping the governments of the World misplacing people, and go to open war with the Flag Smashers Steve knew the Avengers can’t be servants of nations, but to serve the people, without bias While it’s true the Avengers needed to be more careful in fighting in populated areas, and should be accountable to their mistakes, it’s better for them to remain independent and try to do the best they can to save the World their way Heroes are servants of the people, while allies to nations of the world instead of the other way around

@cfoy3

3 жыл бұрын

I think you have this opinion because the movies paint a rosy picture of the avengers and you take there side. The average person doesn't know anything about this. They just know that some dude killed a bunch of people and then cap killed even more people in germany trying to apprehend him. All could have been avoided. You speak of working for the people which people? We do not let police roll around doing what they like. We live in a democracy which means you must have consent of the governed. The people of the world are telling you no you can not say well I don't like that and am going to do whatever the hell I want to do wherever I want. Someone who wears the flag of the usa should not be allowed to just invade other countries whenever they want.

@in45do34

3 жыл бұрын

In some way I prefer to be Team Cap because the movies shows us how dangerous the world in the MCU. They need a fast response team like Avengers to eliminate the threat. Of course there will be collateral damage but it's worth it to reduce the casualties. In reality our government often took a very long time to discussed a matter and sometimes the decision isn't the favor for everyone so I would assume the same thing happen in the MCU. On the other hand, suveillance is needed especially to a group of superheroes that are capable to turn a city into ashes if they wanted to. The public and government would support the accords. In their perspective the Avengers can be seen as vigilante. No one would ever guess what's their next move gonna be and to make them more accountable to their action, signing the accords would gain the public and government trust. But again, we often heard about how the government are slow at discussion and makes bad decision for everyone. Unless that's not the issue, I would agree with Tony.

@cfoy3

3 жыл бұрын

@@in45do34 you could amend to allow rapid response for the avengers as long as they can justify post action. I think it is very understandable that you can make the case that if an alien invasion happens we have to move quickly. Honestly we do not know what was in this document but again tony makes the argument that we can have amendments safeguards and cap just is unwilling to listen. Again I have the opinion that the accords have very little to do with the central conflict of the movie and exist to kinda make cap more sympathetic to the viewer. The real source of conflict was that cap wanted to break the law, including letting innocent people get hurt ( they collapse a tunnel!!) To save his friend. Some of the avengers were willing to help because they liked cap better than tony and the others wanted to follow the law.

@td5254

3 жыл бұрын

@@cfoy3 It's silly to think people would blame the Avengers for fighting aliens, nazis, and robots. The facts are the accords shifts blame from the actual problem of Tony and shield's science projects gone wrong then shifts the blame to the guys cleaning up that mess because well they couldn't save everyone. Tony is so irresponsible that after Ultron he created another army of drones then handed the keys over to a child. Sh like that is what needed regulation.

@jeremyanderson6789

3 жыл бұрын

Or become a puppet a crrupot government.

Favorite scene. Movie convos are mostly unlike real-life convos, but this one felt very natural. So many comments are focused on who “won” the argument here, pointing out details like the face Tony makes, but I don’t think that’s the point. This debate is very complex, and I love that the team gets to decide TOGETHER what they think they should do. If there weren’t any stakes (capturing vs releasing Bucky), they may have continued talking rather than resort to physically fighting, which I think is very interesting. It’s too bad that this is a superhero movie, so they’re obligated to resolve everything with a fight scene.

Tony: We need to be put in check. I'm sorry, but who created Ultron without consulting the team first? If anything, Tony was the one who needed to be put in check due to his fear of Thanos, which while it makes sense, led to him making irrational decisions because of that fear.

I guess ross didn't hear or forgot about Hydra Infiltrating S.h.i.e.l.d. in Washington, DC

They ARE better than the bad guys! It's the bad guys fault, they can't save everyone when they're trying.

Vision has a good point. The villains of each MCU movie accelerated and escalated their plans in the face of superheroes emerging and growing in strength; they absolutely would take increasingly extreme measures to counter people who cannot be corrupted, silenced or killed and who pose a genuine threat to their schemes. On the other hand, those villains were still doing terrible things when unchallenged, and if they were willing to become more extreme to try to catch the heroes off guard and overpower them, then they would have escalated anyway without heroes to oppose them. If HYDRA planned to cull the population by millions to cull the number of individuals dangerous to them now and in the future, then they would have found another excuse to cull millions if superheroes weren't a thing.

@lightswitch1483

7 ай бұрын

The events of The Dark World and the Avengers literally happen with or without superheroes emerging. The Aether and Tesseract were both already on Earth without Iron Man, Thor, Cap or Hulk doing anything. Tony seems like the only hero directly responsible for creating villains lol. The Dark Elves and The Chitauri both invade Earth to get the Infinity stones eventually all on their own.

Tony ignoring the fact that Sokovia was his fault because he created Ultron.

This movie was was really interesting, its hard to choose a side. You'd think that you'd want to choose a specific side because one side has more heroes you like, but when it comes down solely on the debate, its really difficult to pick a side. Both are right, and both are wrong. The first time I watched this I picked tonys side cause it had heroes i liked way more than caps by a long shot. Ironman, spiderman, black panther, and vision But after watching it several more times, then really listening closely to these debates, I ended getting caught between both sides. I could agree on both.

@srikanthsv79

Жыл бұрын

It's easy to pick a side though, Avengers don't need to be controlled by 5 veto UN members

| Wolverine’s perspective and bluntness would have both sides rethinking their positions…

I miss this kind of dialogue and character development in the MCU

The Charles Spencer argument is the biggest flaw in all of this. Let's say there were no Avengers, that the military had to deal with Sokovia. Soldiers, tanks and planes against Ultron of all things. There would be thousands of casualties from the military ALONE, not to mention the high probability that they wouldn't be able to stop the drop. That means the death of billions. I had heard something about this Initiative being a last resort due to there being no truly effective option to defend Earth. They've saved untold millions of people despite being a team of SIX. Then along comes mister "survivor's guilt" acting like the tragic death of one young man outweighs the salvation of thousands just like him. It's overemotional nonsense, Stark needs to go to therapy, not project his guilt into the world.

@studentathlete7751

4 ай бұрын

It wasn’t even the Avengers that killed Charles Spencer it was Ultron. The buildings collapsed when Ultron lifted a huge chunk of the city as part of his plan to destroy humanity. The Avengers were even trying to evacuate the city before dealing with Ultron but the idiot government didn’t listen.

@offlineraided

3 ай бұрын

The idea that Charles Spencer had a 3.6 gpa was the biggest reason I couldn't suspend disbelief any longer

Absolutely one of my favorite scenes in the entire MCU