Gotta love a proper unbiased long term review. Really helpful, many thanks.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. Thanks for the Comment 👍

I installed this system about a week ago - had a few teething issues with one rad valve (which a 'factory reset' sorted) and an initial issue with account setup, but other than that it's working a treat, with no range or connectivity issues in a three story house. I have to add that the technical support, both on the phone and via email has been superb; with queries answered both quickly and knowledgeably. My only grouch is with the support pages on the website, which whilst they look very pretty, make it very hard to find 'hard facts' (many of which are simply missing) - this wouldn't be so bad if a bit more info came in the box with the system. If I had a wish list, it would be 1) to be able to buy the system without a room thermostat, 2) to have a smart 'flex outlet' as an option to the smart plug and 3) to be able to assign other users 'non-admin' use of the app (so they might have access to some facilities but not others). Thanks for the vids Charlie!

On balancing radiators this is what I've done: closed all radiators from the distributor; put a hose from the heating drain valve to the sewage; open the heating fill valve (where I can add water to the system); open one of the radiators (the one further on in there system) and notice the pressure on the pressure gauge. Starting point for all radiators is wide open on both in and out valves. Try a few radiators to find the one with the highest resistance (highest pressure on the gauge). Once I found the greatest pressure I did the same on all radiators (so just one radiator opened at a time) and close the return valve as needed to match the highest found pressure. I did this on all radiators so all circuits had the same flow resistance (same pressure on the gauge). I hope it makes sense how I explained....

@gelosul

Жыл бұрын

Can you do a video please?

Phew! Your original Wiser video got the ball rolling for me and it’s on order along with a Viessmann 200W to run HW, UFH, and Rads. I watched this hoping all was good and was pleased to see Wiser remains a good choice. Viessmann tell me Wiser plays nicely with their boiler - hoping so!

Great vid Charlie, as thorough as anyone could ever wish for - as ever. Keep up the good work.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Daniel 👊

Very cool video, we went with tado and have just installed homeassistant, the tado was good by itself but the app is sorely under developed, but the introduction of home assistant to the system has plugged all the gaps, in fact the tado integration means we don’t need to use the tado interface at all anymore. Home assistant took about 30 minutes to set up, so you don’t need mega tech savyness to get it up and running, and you only need to make it as complicated as you need.

Interesting video. I installed a system from Genius Hub about 4 years ago because there were very few choices at the time. It does everything you talked about with as far as I could tell one addition. I have room sensors, in addition, to the TVR's, they monitor the temperature in each room from a more central point but they also detect occupancy so depending on the schedule or plan will only turn the radiators on if the room is occupied should you want that. You can have a straight time on time off program and set different temperatures for different times of the day. Currently, the analytics are not as good however unless you go down the home hub root.

Really thorough update Charlie. Thank you very much!

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome. Thanks for the comment 👍

Thanks for sharing. Interesting ideas. Maybe our next home improvements.

Love this update. And the fact you are transparent

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Justin 👍

Huge fan of the Wiser system, and experienced all of the benefits you mentioned when it was installed in my last property. In my new home I needed a different control unit as I don't have a combi, and I need to change my TRV valves as they are so old the TRVs are incompatible with them, so something to be mindful of if anyone was planning to take their Wiser unit from one house to another. I have found their support to be very good and recommend buying the smart plug. I find battery life to be well over a year for the TRVs. Sometimes the heat report drops out and this is exclusively related to wifi - the main controller is a bit finicky at picking up a weak wifi signal so make sure it can pick it up easily. I am installing electric underfloor heating for my bathroom and would love for Wiser to have a solution for that too.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

George they have that electric radiator unit I mentioned near the end - for larger electrical appliances, which would probably work for your underfloor heating. Worth looking into.

Thank you so much for the extremely helpful video! Great explanation as always! Thanks!

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

You're welcome. Thanks for the comment 👍

Using my Wiser system with Home Assistant. The sockets also monitor power consumption. Great system but uses more batteries than I had hoped. Home assistant shows me Zigbee mesh map, very useful to work out where the signals are weak.

Nice to get an update on how your finding the Wiser system as I bought into this system after seeing your initial install video. I'm currently producing a video of my own which covers more on the running of this system and some of the issues, rather than the install itself. I've also sent Drayton and Schneider a lot of suggestions to make this system better and get round a few of the quirks i've found, e.g. TRV and room thermostat offsets. Hopefully if I get a response from them then I will also cover what they are planning to improve. One area I will include in my video is the integration of a weather compensator onto my system boiler as Opentherm is just not working as you would expect due to the way different manufactures have implemented it. In theory, the boiler will set its temperature directly based on an external weather sensor and should therefore heat the rooms up at the same pace irrespective of outside temperature. It should also start condensing a lot more as the weather picks up and the boiler runs at lower temperatures for the heating. However, I've keen to see how this effects the Wiser system with Eco mode turned on given that this mode has an element of weather compensation built in and I want to confirm if it conflicts with it in any way. I'm hoping that I may need to just rest the system so that it starts re-learning how quickly the rooms heat up again and realises that my home now heats up at the same rate irrespective of outside weather due to the new weather compensator.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks John. You could probably do this with Home Assistant. Let me know how you get on.

Another great review Charlie. Thank you! I'm looking at sacking off gas all together. And I'm looking at electric, oil filled radiators that can be controlled via smart controllers, both hardwired and via WiFi allowing management via the Internet. Under floor electrical heating, electrically heated taps and showers and an induction hob, instead of a gas hob. No yearly boiler servicing, no single point of failure, no pipes for heating in floor, ceiling or loft spaces. And the option to have multiple radiators in certain rooms or spaces. That plus solar panels should make a dent on energy bills.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, with solar panels this could be a good option. Without them though I'd be a bit worried about the cost - what with the way electricity prices are going at the moment.

Great information Charlie

Zigbee is rock solid, I run not only Wiser for heating but Ikea Bulbs, Xiaomi sensors and so on, total 60 different devices. Also, the beauty is you do not need to buy proprietary hub from each of the manufacturer. Everything managed by Home Assistant, schedules, full control, voice control. Overall, I am really happy with the Wiser system, which was installed 2 years ago. The only thing I don't like is battery life, would like to use rechargeable.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Yes Home Assistant does look good 👍 Those batteries are working well for me right now. Expensive though

I have been working with the Wiser system for a couple of years now. Based on my experience I have several observations: 1. The TRVs actually measure the temperature at the device (next to the radiator) and the system then uses software to estimate the temperature in the middle of the room. This estimation is frequently wrong. To be fair, it's a difficult thing to do since every room has different thermal characteristics. The problem is worst when the radiator is heating up in the morning - it gets quite hot, so does the TRV, so it over-estimates the room temperature. The result is that the radiator shuts off even though the room has not reached the set point. This is 100% repeatable behaviour. The solution is to give it a boost just to get it up to temp. After that it is fine for the rest of the day. 2. On your recommendation I have installed re-chargeable batteries, of exactly the same type. I ran one TRV on rechargeables for a month to test it and it worked flawlessly so I have rolled them out to the remainder. That was a great bit of research, thank you. 3. One feature I would really like to see is geo-fencing, for two people: so that when we are both away from the house, it automatically goes into Away Mode. Unfortunately I have no idea when or if this will become available. Would I install Wiser, knowing what I know now? Yes, in the sense that I'm very glad to have a system that I can control remotely. No, in the sense that there may be better system designs out there. But these systems aren't cheap so I'm not about to go trying the others in the hope that they might work better. Thank you Charlie for your work and helpful videos on this system.

I followed HeatGeeks method of balancing which worked a treat for me - it was more about the room temperature (which is what we want our rads for) than rad temps. It should in theory be easy with smart trvs, set them all to 19 from cold, see what gets up to temp first, turn that lock shield down, or if one is super slow, open it up. Keep going until all get up to temp at roughly the same time. I did this using govee Bluetooth room thermometers, took 4 mornings and worked a treat, allowed me to reduce my flow temp too (weather compensation). Hope that helps!

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear that. Yes I haven't got round to doing this yet.

@danludlam1562

2 жыл бұрын

I've always been confused exactly what balancing the radiators meant. So, in your example, you're saying set all the radiators to 19 degrees, and have all the TRVs set to the same value, then you need to turn the flow rate down in a small room like a cloakroom and increase the flow rate in a large bedroom so they reach the desired temperature at the same time? What's the actual advantage to that though if you have the electronic temperature sensor TRVs - who cares if all the rooms heat up at the same rate as long as they all hit the right temperature? Is there an energy saving if all the rooms heat at the same rate? Do you want rooms to heat slowly and the boiler be on for longer or do you want rooms to heat quickly so the boiler isn't on for long?

@pumpkinhead456

2 жыл бұрын

@@danludlam1562 you balance a system to ensure the correct flow rate is reached over all your rads. Generally you restrict closer to the boiler and open further away. If it flows too slowly or too quickly, your rads furthest away will not get fully warm, or your room might never get up to desired temp. Once it's balanced, you can try turning down your flow temp to the point your rooms are just warm enough - that's when your system is most efficient. Warm up slowly, heat on a bit longer but boiler working much less hard. Hope that helps!

@danludlam1562

2 жыл бұрын

@@pumpkinhead456 any comments on underfloor heating? Because obviously, that's always going to take longer to heat a room but is there a recommended way to balance this?

@pumpkinhead456

2 жыл бұрын

@@danludlam1562 no idea I'm afraid, sure there will be plenty info through Google. Good luck!

Hi mate hope you are well…. Great content yet again very interesting I’ll have to take a look at these Thermostatic valves thanks Charlie

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Carl. Yes the system comes alive when you install the valves. 👍

Other reason to not use wifi is the power draw. You'd be changing batteries very often.

23:56 Covers Balancing radiators (not subscription Services). P.S. I tried to add some links to useful websites, but YT deletes the posts. On Heating hub "At 54°C the boiler is 87% efficient. The boiler does not reach 90%+ efficiencies until the return temperatures are around 45°C." That site says that most engineers are not trained to correctly setup condenser boilers. "why our condensing boilers do not condense".

I fitted my Wiser system a couple of weeks ago (14 radiators and 13 TRVs); it all went very smoothly as my 25 year old trad system was already Drayton based. One aspect that I haven't seen mentioned is the behaviour of any by-pass radiators. Ours is in our shower room, and with no master off switch for the central heating in the Wiser app, I was concerned that it would be on all the time. Those clever people at Drayton obviously have it covered though, as my three way divertor valve is clearly only circulating hot water to the radiators if one of the TRVs is calling for heat. This works extremely well, and I am impressed with the huge potential for increased comfort with efficiency savings that the Wiser system gives. My plumber also turned the wick down on our Baxi Solo 2 boiler to reduce any cycling, but with hot water only circulating when a TRV requests it, this does not seem to be a problem.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it's running smoothly Steve. Love my system! Not sure what you mean about the master off switch. You need those rads without TRVs in the shower room to clear heat from the heat exchange. They are on when the heating is on but this is quite a good thing in terms of clearing moisture/ drying towels etc. But they're only on when the heating is on.

@danludlam1562

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte just so I'm clear, if you have towel radiators, there isn't a decent solution for that yet for the wiser solution? Therefore, you might as well set these to be fully open/on without any TVRs, as there's a requirement to always have one radiator open fully without a TVR for the wiser system? And if that's all correct, what this results in is the towel radiators come on every time any of the TVRs are on? That doesn't seem very efficient to me? If I had the heating on in one room during the day then I actually have it on in that one room and both bathrooms with towel radiators? Also, as an additional question, is there any integration with underfloor heating?

Very helpful video, I watched before ordering the wiser system. When you talked about the self balancing trv you said there was a workaround if you already have smart trvs but I don't see any video that discusses this. Could you please advise what you meant by that. Many thanks

This video is incredibly timely - for obvious reasons, conversations on many youtube channels are all biased similarly: How to achieve the best efficiency and corresponding savings. I was fortunate enough to have inherited a very old boiler and decided to buy new, along with ripping out all existing rads for new. I opted for Viessmann, primarily due to its excellent attitude to third-party integration (wifi, OpenTherm, Home Assistant integration etc). I am really keen to end up with a very well-balanced, optimised system, and looked to the Nest Thermostat (OpenTherm compliant too). That decision threw a spanner in the works tbh, as Nest have not been that helpful in opening up the boiler controllability aspect very well through Home Assistant (nest operates as the master, despite what you set on the boiler), as well as not supporting multi-zone operation unless you get a Nest for each room. Long story short, am looking to fit Smart TRVs all over, have all of this intelligently controlled from Home Assistant, but adding S-TRVs messes with the modulation algorithms (OpenTherm) and could negate boiler efficiency savings (I assume). This is where I am at now; very confused, and not really looking forward to my future technical (and financial) quest! I guess many others are too. It's a confusing market atm, I wish they could all get together and standardise a workable model for all, as not all of us are technically savvy enough to pull this off well.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Francis, well done for getting to where you have. Sounds like you could get a lot of help and advice from my Discord forum. You can sign up for £5 a month through my Patreon channel. There's a link in the description of this video also here www.patreon.com/charlieDIYte Sam on my forum isn't a fan of smart TRVs but there is a Drayton plugin for Home Assistant I'm told. Let me know it's you if you decide to join and we'll continue this discussion in the smart heating channel in the forum.

Just seen this video, great video, totally agree with everything yoy say. Also thank you for highlighting the HomeAssistant integration that we (Myself and Mark Parker) have created for Home Assistant!

Nice to hear you call out homeassistant. The Drayton Wiser integration works very well in Home Assistant. HA is great but still needs some technical knowledge. You can also go one step further and do away with the Drayton hub by having the TRVs talk directly to and be controlled by your homeassistant ZigBee server instance (ZigBee2Mqtt as an example). I've tried this, and it pairs but there are some bugs/issues with managing the TRVs. Setting a temp, and the TRV reverting to 20C are common issues. I'm sure they'll be ironed out. What it does allow is for you to run the TRVs yourself if Drayton were to turn of their cloud services or your privacy sensitive.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Robert. Yes I had heard you could remove the hub from the system, albeit enhanced technical knowledge is required for that as you suggest. The integration I linked to I guess is good for those of us who want to keep the hub in operation for the time being at least.

Ive had wiser for about the same time, I had a Nest for about a year beforehand. A couple of important notes Ive found. 1) the 'comfort' mode did seem to use a lot more fuel. 2) when using a non-modulating oil boiler, its possible that due to the reduced heatload on the system, the boiler short cycles and you lose your (condensing) efficiency and I actually found the system using MORE oil than the nest system in some instances.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Matt. Yes I suspect I get short cycling as well. What have you done to counteract this? Once I've properly balanced my radiators I'm seriously considering leaving the heating on at 19 degrees 24/7 to see if a consistent thermal mass saves oil.

@MiracleManMatt

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte Hi Charlie, great channel BTW. I had great machinations of doing a similar thing - but never had the gumption to quite actually do it. A few things Im doing that I was thinking of doing a video on but anyhow. Rather than have all radiators (14 including towel rails) all discretely controlled by the smart TRV's - having a certain amount on normal TRV's set higher than normal to ensure there is sufficient heat load - although this is a WIP. I also am wondering if balancing the radiators is actually not necessarily the same process for a conventional system, so I have some of the lock shields open more than I would do, so that the radiators that ARE on, get more throughput to ensure return temps to boiler are lower. Im also looking at getting my boiler re-jetted at the service (tomorrow actually) to a lower output to mitigate the short cycling. Ideally I think a buffer tank or heat store would almost totally mitigate the issue - but this is expensive and costly. I spoke to drayton about how their algorithm accounts for short cyclying but IM not 100% convinced its working optimally. I have a digital temperature probe on the flow and return pipes to the boiler and I watch these over a period of time to see how things are working. Also I changed the pump in my boiler from a normal 3 speed unit, to a modulating pump with auto setting. Again experimenting with different settings but IMO this should help when you have variable heatload. Im not a heating 'engineer', but I am a mechanical engineer so have some understanding of the systems involved. I would say i was recommended Drayton by a controls engineer I know who is involved with the really high end heating systems and he reckoned this is the best of the consumer units. I like the system but I think they are missing a heap of tricks that would make it even better. For me, having the ability to have the rad TRV's open and close on a schedule - but not actually call for heat would be good, and allows a room to heatup if the heating is on already - but not specifically switch the boiler on if not already. Hallways for example. I do this with other 'smart' standalone TRV's. Also, Id much rather look through the 'insights' or ontrol the schedules through a PC app, rather than just the phone. With older properties (mine is a 3 story granite farmhouse in Aberdeenshire im renovating) I think the argument for constant heat is a good one. It is an experiment im looking into. keeping the humidity down by keeping the house warm is definitely a good thing. I for one would be very interested to see you do a vid on this. FYI I use a system called Oilpal to keep track of oil usage... a bit clunky but does exactly what I need and allows me to track oil usage on a weekly or even daily basis (although I think accuracy is not good for a daily basis).

Room Thermostat. Tap middle button once for 2 degree boost for 30mins. 2 taps for 1hr, 3 2hr, 4 3hr. Increasing temp +/- will remain at that temp forever unless you have scheduling setup. Enabling boost automatically increases 2 degrees. If too hot/cold use temp +/- to reduce or increase! I have room thermostat in every room. Use the boost as moving around the house. Works really well. Use the app in the morning to turn on heating downstairs simply using boost. Scheduling works fine but using away mode and boosting rooms as needed saving loads of cash!

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for that Phil. Yes I'm pretty sure I covered the functionality of the room thermostat in my original video and should have gemmed up on this before find the refresher - there was a LOT to cover in this one. The Boost function only comes on for an hour though. You'll have much more accurate temperatures in each room with all those room thermostats 👍

Ah yes, the boundary system. I have one Charlie & like you had problems with connectivity it’s certainly challenged me but seem to have it under control for the moment after moving the hub & being sent a range extender. Great app though. Watching this video makes me wonder why they don’t use the zig be mesh 💁🏼

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Ah, interesting to hear that. They're doing what they can for me to get this working but are tight lipped when it comes to telling me what problems others have experienced. They don't use zigbee because z-wave is more secure and therefore better for security systems apparently. Personally I think they'd be better using it!

Home Assistant does offer awesome additional controls over the Wiser. We use the HA app to cover home occupancy enabling and disabling Away Mode in Wiser automatically. It can also use the moments in the app, for simple controls over changing temperature settings based other integrated devices, for example, we set the home alarm to Alarmed - Home when we got to bed which triggers a moment to turn down all the temps regardless of there schedule. We have also found that the TRVs can give out false temp readings. The radiators are mounted on exterior walls and low down, there can up to 3 degrees difference between the TRV's and head height. We have over come this issue with a cheap £10 Sonoff Temp Sensor integrated into HA to turn down the TRV's if they exceed the set value for the room. Its a brilliant system, which even the non-techy wife even approves of. Highly Recommended.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Really interested in this. Question for you though. For someone like me who isn't that techy, is HA a step too far to install, still?

@creativetags

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte I’m not the person you asked but in my opinion, yes. It’s complicated to maintain home assistant. You might be able to follow a tutorial alright to get installed but at some point something will break and you won’t know how to fix it which could be a big problem if you’ve come to rely on it. I’m happy to use it minimally as I have the ability to maintain it when needed.

Lack of connection is not necessarily a thick wall or or location, I have found that if the router is in a room with silver foil backed dry wall, the foil acts as a shield for the signal.

I took your advice and installed this system about 3 months ago. At the time, all that was needed was hot water which heated up fine on schedule. Now that the colder weather is coming, I need to heat our house for my wife who feels the cold more than me. I have 11 radiators each with a Wiser Thermostat and have set schedules for each room/thermostat. The problem, however, is that the radiators do not come on. To get the heat flowing, I have to turn the thermostat to the +sign until thred light illuminates. The, turn it to the -sign until the blue light illuminates. At that point, I can hear a sound which is probably the valve opening and the radiator starts to warm up. Can you tell me what could be the problem as I have tried resetting the thermostats, recalibrating, deleting them and starting set up again but all to no avail. I have to say, however, that the radiators are producing more heat than previously with this system, if only they would fire up automatically.

Great video but ...... ..... if you had bought the "pro de luxe version" 5 body probes that sense your body temperature, are included and adjust the room temperature when they sense you are feeling cold 😆

Thanks for the 1.5 v rechargeable heads up. I find I have to replace the Netatmo outdoor units batteries every 10-12 days

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

You're welcome. Yes I'm finding these batteries work great 👍

Phillips Hue uses Zigbee which, I have many bulbs in a similar old house. Never had a problem. Even works in the garden. WiFi I have had to put Access Points in to get a signal throughout the property

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Doug. Yes, the way the devices communicate on the mesh makes it much better than WiFi. 👍

Hi Charlie Again a very interesting video . But it does highlight just how complicated these systems are , when you consider my mothering law in our attached granny flat still uses a wall stat like a switch 😂 bless her . But in all fairness heating and the dreaded desired temperature are the bane of any heating system . Even as a retired electrical contractor I was starting to glaze over as you went into the setup . Which leads me to my problem with a lot of these controls . Most standard central heating is laid out as one continuous loop , with a loop say for the hot water . Yes a motorise valve may be in place to separate the upstairs from the downstairs , but usually that’s were the sophistication ends . In this regard the underfloor heating industry has got this problem nailed , because it can treat each room as separate zone by the use of thermostatic manifolds . Yet we are still building new houses with the same old heating layouts that were around 50 years ago which are inherently difficult to control . The government is pushing for air source heating , but I think they’d be better off looking at the system as a whole rather than just what generates the heat . Finally I do remember years ago working in public buildings they often had remote stats that linked directly to the radiator valve , seems even way back then they were chasing the dragon as they say . Best wishes and kind regards as always 😀👍👍👍

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this Michael. A couple of things, I think my system was single pipe when we moved in so one pipe connected each radiator in a loop which is generally a disaster as the last radiator in the line takes for ever to heat up. It was replaced with a double pipe system when I moved in, which works much better as you can genuinely zone each room with the smart valves. So it's not quite as problematic as you say IF you have a double pipe system but you raise some good points there. Underfloor heating is the holy grail particularly downstairs as without it you have a permanent refrigerator below the floor which vastly reduced the effectiveness of any hear you try and add - as do uninsulated walls and windows - even when they're double glazed.

@Mc674bo

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte absolutely sir , thanks for the reply . We can forget some time how lucky we are to have all these new possibilities to improve our lives . Back in the 50s as a kid in the winter I would scratch my name in the ice of my window on the inside . Happy days Best wishes and kind regards as always. 🤣👍👍👍

Hi Charlie, just wondering did anyone previously suggest to you the use of a cheap "Infrared" Digital Thermometer Gun, to tune the both Temperatures on the Rads to tune and Balance same...thus allowing optimum heat transfer across the system and making a Condensing Boiler to go onto to Condensing / heat saving Mode for a pastime or even a Non Condensing Boiler to work better in a Property ... Great Upload Charlie.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Hi mate, definitely a good idea I'm going to get one of these to balance the radiators before the winter. 👍

Vitodens 100-W 2021 model and I limited flow temp to 50C and range rated the boiler to 55% which is around 16kWh which gets to temp very quick. Good thing about Vitodens can Modulation range increases from 1:10 (3.2 kW) and I limited hotwater temp to 45c

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting. Decent self modulating boilers are a rarity in the UK right now. Sounds like you've got a good set up there.👌

Howdy, just installed whole system (9 valves, hub + thermostat) for oil heating house with stove and back boiler. Zoning was messed up so boiler is heating up all rads and water at this same time. I was hoping that scheduling some rads off will be economical but when valve shuts down then this radiator become cool so quickly where water in the system is still so hot and two bathrooms are worm all day (rads without trv's). Wouldn't be better if Drayton create solution for instance: instead of closing the valve just send signal to the hub to turn off the boiler until the last valve confirm that boiler could be off? Not sure if that is clear as I mean when desired temperature is reached out in one room that valve will send command "for me boiler could be off) then when last valve send that command then boiler will shut down but flow will be still running which means heating up whichever room you like until circulation cools down. House is Canadian construction build so getting worm quickly as is getting cool quickly as well and don't see that will be sufficient with Wiser system so far. Maybe I missed something in the configuration or so, any suggestions really appreciate it.

Thanks

Home assistant all the way! I'm getting rid of the Hive cloud this summer and connecting them to my zigbee hub.

@saintuk70

2 жыл бұрын

Why does Paul Hibbert now spring to mind :)

@InfectedByEli

2 жыл бұрын

@@saintuk70 Home Assistant, Home Assistant ... Home Assistant! 🤣🤣😂

@danyalm10

2 жыл бұрын

Yes!

@dpn1604

2 жыл бұрын

@@saintuk70 😂

Well it's October 2023 and the Home Assistant 5 is now available. I'm just getting in to the IoT and revamping my heating and looks like the HA5 is much easier to use than previous incarnations. My only worry at the moment is what happens if we want to move house. I think I need a 'standard' heating system is still needed but I could of course revert back to the basic timer and change the TRVs back to dumb ones.

@CharlieDIYte

8 ай бұрын

Thanks Michael. I really want to install Home Assistant. Maybe with 5 it's time to take the plunge. Just don't have time to invest in learning about it right now.

Definitely will become a Patreon

Great video as always thanks. I have the room thermostat installed and works well. I want to create a second heating zone in my kitchen to just heat this room in the day. Thinking of a Drayton wiser trv for this BUT would the room thermostat over-ride it if the rest of the house was already up to temp and stop the kitchen valve opening independently…….? Could I add another port valve for the kitchen only and control it with another room thermostat??

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure about the port valve point or how you'd plumb that in but it would be cheaper to replace the other TRVs by the time you've had a plumber round. Plus the system functions so much better with all the rads on what valves. Yes if you change the one TRV unless you go round turning off all the others, they'll come on when you call for heating in that room.

@iancollyer9995

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte thanks. I’ve gone for multiple trvs and so far so good! Most useful feature is that they will ‘call for heat’ independently of each other and the room thermostat 👍🏼

Been considering switching from Tado to Drayton Wiser. Mainly due to the issue with Tado, when the internet plays up the heating doesn't respond. I've installed a backup 4G modem and configured WAN failover on the firewall to mitigate against this. I have read on Amazon reviews that the Drayton TRV units don't seem to last, gear issues or something.

Another great video, thanks - even though I only have a couple of radiators. I use thermaskirt heating combined with woodpellet boiler both of which i love. Had boiler 12 yrs and it's been so reliable and economic. As for thermaskirt - can't recommend the product and the company highly enough. (I have no links to woodpellet boiler or thermaskirt companies)

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Colin. Glad to hear you've got a solution that works well for you 👍

@MarkAlexanderBuchanan

Жыл бұрын

Hi Colin. Can I ask how well your house is insulated? We just moved into a 200 year old stone-built farm house and our lumber said he did not think thermaskirt would work due to the lack of insulation and the relatively small emitting surface area

Charlie, It's worth knowing that in any Zigbee mesh network there are 3 types of devices, a "Co-ordinator" (only need one), "Routers" which are mains powered devices that can route signals between devices and "End Devices" (usually battery powered) that need to connect either to a Router or the Co-ordinator. The Smart plugs you are using act as Routers and so by allowing End Devices (your radiator thermostats) to connect to them can extent the mesh network. It is also worth knowing that WiFi networks and Zigbee networks can interfere with each other and it is sensible to select the bands they use so as to prevent this.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dave. Makes sense. Am I right in thinking the smart thermostats could interconnect in the mesh but generally don't because they're switched off most of the time, checking for instructions every minute or so? I need to configure my Unifi access points properly as I currently lose quite a lot of upload and download speed as against what the 4G router is recording. I have a very good guy on my Discord group who's told me what I need to do. I just haven't got round to doing it yet. 👍

@MAMDAVEM

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte one of the key benefits of zigbee devices is their low power usage, this is why their battery life is good. This is in part achieved by the device going to sleep for short periods. When they are woken up they should automatically connect with the Co-ordinator or strongest signal router. Because battery devices spend time asleep this makes them no use as routers.

I’d like to see you do the same with Hive. I have Hive which is pretty awful. Turn up the heat on one rad and it takes 5-6 mins to get to the valve to open. Also they modulates down each rad when it’s reaching temp so much that it never reaches temp so its always calling for heat.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that. Yes I had heard of multiple problems with the smart valves but I hoped they had been fixed.

@ 9:31 you talk about "clunky Thermostat controls". However if you press the Circle button twice it will boost your temp by +2'C from what it is currently reading (in your video that would be 20'C) and then you set the boost time as you demonstrated. You can also then easily increase or decrease the boost set temp using the +/- controls. Much easier than the way you demonstrated.

@MagicianMan

2 жыл бұрын

Don't get me wrong I am a BIG fan of the Drayton Wiser system we have now installed. Biggest issue with all smart TRV's is simply the price. Even Wiser TRV's @ £40 each - we have 12 radiators in our house so 11 x £40 = £440 that's a LOT of savings to recover from our gas central heating. Especially when we already have 2 Wiser Thermostats - 1 down & 1 upstairs - plus manual Thermostatic valves on each radiator already.

@MagicianMan

2 жыл бұрын

Wiser Insights - We have SMETS2 meters and already have an in home smart display provided by our Energy supplier (for some reason the GAS SMETS2 meter doesn't work, despite being changed). However Drayton Insights isn't available to me. I have checked multiple times since watching your video. It appears that Drayton Insights **ONLY** works if you purchase their own IHD (In Home Display?) for a one off cost of £14.99.

@eddyr3691

Жыл бұрын

@@MagicianMan I will offer an argument for going with the extra expense (which many not be suitable for many I admit) is that if funds allow, why not. Comfort is important - its the reason we bother with heating in the first place. Not everything has to be ROI. Why go for certain car types/brands/packages, TV model, for example, or any other item the nicer premium version - we often and conveniently leave ROI behind in many instances and consider use cases and often factor in capabilities that half the time we never take advantage. Effective custom heating of your home space 6 months in a year, to a more comfortable level while using the same or less fuel/cost seems worthwhile.

@mabsterb

8 ай бұрын

Just about to start converting our house and realising I have 20 rads and not a lot of money means it's going to take a fair while. I'm Replacing a basic Drayton on/off thermostat so the basic kit alone should at least be an improvement 😊

Hey Charlie pls share the link to tgat extender plug pls

I am considering a conversion from gas boiler to 'air to water' heat pump. WISER indicated it can accommodate a heat pump as the source of heat energy. Has anybody had any experience of using WISER in this type of configuration.

Moments sounds similar to Google's 'Routines' or Alexa's 'Skills' - you can base your routines on a command, sunrise, time etc. I've set a routine for bedtime when putting the little one down (lights, baby music, do not disturb on doorbell). I've set a routine to open the blinds downstairs at sunrise.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Nice 👌

Big fan of wiser too. You mention about boiler modulation which sounds like a break through. I have a worscter boiler which doesn't support opentherm do you know anything about the adapter or know where I can find out more?

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

I'm afraid not and you'd probably need to adapt your heating system as I mentioned in the vid.

Thank you for the video, very useful! it was a interesting point someone made about boilers only being able to modulate down to a certain level, in my case I also have a worcester bosch so modulation is not supported but thinking about efficiency in the same way, does this imply for example that if your only heating 1 bedroom overnight that his is not efficient and you would be better off heating maybe the whole of upstairs rather then just 1 room?

@CharlieDIYte

6 ай бұрын

I'm like you. 2010 Worcester Bosch that doesn't support modulation. It's a big argument against single room heating that the boiler is constantly cycling on and off at full power but I think on balance that's probably better than having a system controlled by a room stat that is in the coldest room of the house that never gets up to temp. I guess the more important question is whether your boiler is condensing - which depends on a host of factors including whether it's over specced or operating efficiently at capacity and how well balanced the rads are in achieving the right delta T. You're second question is a good one too and depends on how well insulated the house is. There's an argument that you should keep the heating on continuously so that the house has a constant thermal mass - rather than hearing up all those cold surfaces on each heating cycle. I think there's a lot in this one but it does depend on the individual thermal properties of the house, how well insulated (particularly loft) it is etc

@marct5211

6 ай бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with your approach and have ordered the Wiser with hot water controls and TRV's so hopefully can get it installed this month, heatgeek also seems to suggest smart trvs / zoning is not worth doing here - kzread.info/dash/bejne/rKSIuKuehcuWZKg.html but i'm not convinced, it all gets very confusing, fingers crossed I notice a saving, i'm in this house for another 10 years at least so I'm pretty sure I should make the money back at some point even if the savings are small!

@CharlieDIYte Hi Charlie, have you found a solution to balancing your radiators? Cheers.

Drayton advised me against using standard rechargeable batteries at 1.2V due to problems with the low voltage powering the valves. I'm not sure why they don't have a DC-DC boost converter in there to up the voltage to a constant level for the motor etc. Especially when some of these boost converter designs can work down to 0.7 V.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Makes sense. Mine are 1.5v.

@woopsserg

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte Quite weird suggestion. At 1.2V alkaline is only a bit more than half empty. NiMH drops below 1.2V only when about 90% of their capacity is depleted (they start at lower voltage but during discharge it does not drop much). Not to say Alkalines have a very high internal resistance compared to NiMH, therefore under load of the motor NiMH likely will have higher voltage, as voltage on alkalines will sag.

I want to get cracking with this and it seems fairly staightforward to sort out myself, however I am a bit confused by the requirement to have 1 radiator with neither a TRV or smart TRV. The house I recently moved in to has TRVs on every single radiator... does that mean my boiler can handle it and would I be fine to replace just a few with smart TRVs and leave the others all off or manually turn on when I do need them?

Great video Charlie. Question…. Will the Wiser trv’s fit the danfoss self balancing rad valve?

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

No (this is something I was wondering) but Wiser have brought out their own self balancing system. I'm trying to get hold of it for a review video.

@UK-Boxerfan

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte thanks, look forward to the video 👍

At 25:50 have you come up with a solution? Thanks.

Away mode… I need a way for the heating to come back on… eg using IFTT to turn off away mode when I’m on my way back? Maybe I’m missing something but I go away for the weekend and turn on away mode then forget when I come back to turn it off.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

You need Away mode Off Arrive location as well as Away mode on leave location set up in IFTTT.

Would be good if we could get a video on the wiser ufh system.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

That won't be for a year or so Diego. 👍

Just installed. Sans radiator thermostats. Have to send it back as CH won’t turn off. I thought it would fire straight away as old room thermostat is shorted out. But even once the Wiser thermostat is installed it won’t shut off. I’ll see if replacement works

@topgazza

2 жыл бұрын

Replacement didn't work either. I think I have something wrong with my wiring as if I separate the old stat wires the boiler switches off but the Wise can't turn it back on again. But also the Wiser stat never appears to pair with the hub. The dreaded spinning wheel keeps spinning yet the app sees both the controller and stat. So I've given up. I also can't access the controller from my phone unless I'm in setup mode yet I have done the WiFi setup from scratch. 3 days and no response from Drayton

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

That's very disappointing, sorry to hear that. One suggestion - call the Drayton main support number rather than the Wiser one, as I've just learnt they've outsourced the Wiser support to, bizarrely a competitor, but head office have all the gurus still who understand the system. Maybe say when you call up that you don't want to speak to the outsource team and would prefer to speak to one of the engineers at head office. Also, I think you should get an electrician in who understands these systems as I'm sure it's a wiring issue that must be relatively simple to resolve. Persevere mate, it's worth it when it's running properly.

If you've got TVR's in each room, does it matter if the door to each room is open? I haven't seen a comment on that and I would have thought it could affect the temperature.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

You mean the smart ones? It's not a deal breaker. Yes it will affect the temperature but so much better than traditional TRVs

Your link to the smart thermostat didn't work properly for me. It might be me, or it might need tweaking!

Great review however I wouldn't part with my EvoHome. It was the original smart TRV heating solution and remains the best in my opinion.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

It's a very good system Jason. Just think they've become a bit complacent given they were the market leader for so long. They need to add Insights but I guess they can't given the way it works. 👍

@jimmyc38

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you, I’ve had Evohome for 7 years and my current house has UFH so all my systems including HW are Honeywell/Resideo and I can’t fault it whatsoever. I’d never be without it. I have a three storey house, and I’ve not really had any issues with the system with connectivity. I can’t think of a system that does as much as Honeywell ie UFH, HW etc etc, even my 2 port valves are Honeywell 😂

Hi Charlie, Firstly great video update which has inspired me to install my own wiser system, largely for the cheap TRVs. Overall this experience has been pretty good, although I did need to purchase m28 to m30 adapters so that the supplied TRVs can fit, which added an additional £60 for 8 valves. However, has anyone experience with the Electronic Heat Switch, which I've also purchased to control a electric towel rail? Apparently, it only fully functions with a separate room thermostat, which questions what the Heat Switch without a thermostat is for. I thought I'd be able to control the relay remotely, like the smart plugs. Anyone any experience of this?

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Hi Martin, I've just got one of those switches for my tower rail but haven't wired it in yet. They've also sent the room thermostat. What you've just said explains why. I'll message my contact at Drayton and see if I can get to the bottom of this. I agree with what you say. Why is this required?

@martinetheridge1136

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte I'd be very interested to hear your contacts explanation. My response from customer services was that without the thermostat, only manual control is available (so no change from what I already had). This is a massive lost opportunity. The Heat Switch is really a Smart Switch with an improved IP rating to allow fitting in damp environments, it provides network extension but not scheduling via the app. This seems odd to me, as devices like towel rails would be scheduled for lets say, 2hrs, to dry the towels regardless of the room temp. It also doesn't line-up with the website which states (and I quote) "This new electrical heat switch enables complete control over the entire heating system, no matter what the application, via the Wiser Home app." adding that - it has a 16A relay for electrical heating and is able to control Electric radiators/towel rails. I don't think it's doing this at the moment.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

@@martinetheridge1136 Hi Martin, I have nothing to add to your very detailed analysis unfortunately. It seems to have been repurposed from something that was available on the continent. What you and I really want is the functionality that would be a available from a smart plug on a switched spur. The room stat is an unnecessary addition where all we're wanting to do is schedule the towel rail to come on for enough hours morning and evening to dry the towels.

Hi Charlie, completely a different topic you are covering here but have you reviewed the Ryobi cordless router yet, I can't see it in your videos.

@MrPaullight1963

2 жыл бұрын

Forget about the last comment, I've found the router video.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Ah well done. Yes it's awesome and I used it loads for my wardrobe build kzread.info/dash/bejne/noynj5aiiLKeZ5c.html

Hi Community, I qualify for Insights+ and was wondering if those who have it would recommend it. I’m with Octopus energy and have and in-home display, but does insights+ give you more?

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

I can't get it with my Smet1 but I would say go for it. More insights and the option of greater integration of other smart appliances going forward can't be a bad thing.

I have Hive installed and am considering replacing my "normal" TRV heads with Hive smart valve heads. I know it's a different brand but I think the principals are the same. So My question is what advantage regarding cost savings do smart valves offer over traditional TRVs set correctly?

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

It's a good question, and one which I touch on in the original video. Once you've set the temperature on TRVs you're not meant to keep adjusting them through the winter, but the main reason is scheduling. With the smart TRVs you can have different temperatures in each room - and you'll never know what temperature you've set it to on a TRV - and most importantly, you can set specific schedules for each room, whereas with traditional TRVs heat one room and you're heating all of them, unless you go around turning all the other TRVs down.

@DisturbedM86

2 жыл бұрын

Just going to jump in here and say as someone who has the Hive system installed at my new house I have been increasingly interested in putting the Hive TRV's on my radiators aswell. From what I can tell there will be people that sing any brands praises and other who insist they are the worst thing theyve ever had. All in all it seems there's 0 doubt that once you get past the upfront cost, the system will certainly save you money and make you feel more in control than ever. My biggest gripe is the different brands, biggest ones for me being Hive and Tado. As I said I have a Hive thermostat and app already so it seems logical to me to keep it all Hive (one less app and just nicer overall) but I really am struggling to see why some (like Tado) are so much more than Hive for example. I'm not really seeing much difference functionality wise and I can only imagine any real differences are nothing more than fluff that you won't really care about anyway once your over the new toy phase.

@daze1945

2 жыл бұрын

@@DisturbedM86 I am going with Hive because like you I already have it. It plays well with Philips Hue and Tado devices as well. (In my experience). It seems to me that the smart valves offer a significant level of convenience over standard TRVs. I believe that the same savings can be achieved by constant judicious adjustment of TRVs. I really think that they come into their own if occupancy varies or E.G. You take a winter holiday and have the heating set to just prevent frost whilst away and have it heat back to normal for when you arrive back home. Admittedly the upfront cost can be high but given current fuel prices it may not take too long to see a return on investment. 😀

@Aaron-gl8cm

Жыл бұрын

The Hive trvs and thermostats do not speak to each other so you shouldn't have more than one in a room. For instance, say your living room has two rads and a thermostat, with hive you cant set one trv or thermostat to be the "master" temp sensor whereas with drayton and tado you can. With hive they act all separately which is a real drawback of the system.

Can you set different schedules? For example, shift workers might want a "days on" and "days off" schedule. As shift patterns very rarely rotate around 7 days, it's no use just having a 7 day programmer or a single schedule based on a 7 day week.

@CharlieDIYte

7 ай бұрын

You can set different schedules on different days of the week and the Moments function allows you to toggle heating in on certain areas at the push of a button but you can't switch universally between schedules.

@Chris-hy6jy

7 ай бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte thanks for the info. That's a limitation of a lot of these smart stats. They only cater for schedules that revolve around a 7 day week. They need a 4on/4off schedule which is probably the most common shift. Or just the ability to set individual schedules and then switch between them with the press of a button.

Had the wiser system for 3 months now and impressed so far other than the unfathomably stupid decision in the app to randomly log you out (unnecessary) and to not support copy/paste of the user credentials from a password manager. Banking apps now support saved credentials and biometric login but for some reason drayton do not?!?!?!?!? Looking at our gas usage we are saving 12-15% compared to last year.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Yes that annoys me. I think it happens following an update, and I agree as I use Last Pass. Two things I could have mentioned but it doesn't happen often enough for me to think of it for the vid. 👍

I got the Bosch system with trvs. Wish I got this one instead. Bosch is really limited

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that Karis. I didn't even know they did one.

🛠Charlie DIYte Amazon Tool Store amzn.to/3fcLnY4 - all my tried, tested and much loved DIY tools. ☕ Help support me on Patreon -www.patreon.com/charlieDIYte (includes Discord access).

Is there anyway to turn a radiator off manually without using the app or the hub?

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

No. You can turn it down a couple of degrees by turning anti clockwise but to turn it off you need to use the app.

I did comment on your other video recently, but, to summarise, my experience has been mixed. Although my new Baxi 800 combi is Opentherm compliant, it just caused issues whereby the output temperature was way high and it also took control of my hot water output temperature as well, which was odd! I put this to Drayton and they said “Your hub isn't defective, control via open therm is interesting at the moment we are finding certain boilers are programmed to respond to these connections in different ways, and the industry is still looking for a universal standard of configuration that programmers can use to control boilers, However, the issue here is that a lot of the software that these boilers and programmers use is proprietary information, so manufactures are reluctant to give that up.” I think this means I’m not getting the benefits of modulation, which is a shame? Anyway, the Wiser registered installer that I subsequently engaged (my regular plumber is not into this modern stuff!) switched me back to the more standard connection where at least I can now set both temperatures. My other main issue (apart from the app which has a few ‘foibles’) is that two of my rads get close to or on temp, but continue to call for heat (the boiler is firing) but touching them reveals they are stone cold. Boost them and they get heat no problems. My current theory is that they are older Danfoss type valves and although the pins are not stuck, they seem to have less travel than those rads I have with Drayton valves. It’s as if the Wiser TRV can’t make small adjustments. I could be completely wrong (I’m not an experience DIYer!), but as I need a valve installing on my hall rad anyway, I’m going to have one changed to a Drayton valve and see whether that improves the situation. I have no idea whether this is saving on gas as yet, it is too early to say. But I’m going to persist with it for a while longer. I’ve just has SMETS 2 meters installed so I may take a look at Insights+.

@dj2006djdj

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, I had a similar issue and the trv bodies were sticky and messed up the drayton valve calibration. Replacing the trv bases fixed the issue

@mikec2505

2 жыл бұрын

@@dj2006djdj Thanks for that. So Drayton Wiser TRVs seem to work better with Drayton valves…..who knew!! 😂 I have checked the valves and pins and they don’t seem sticky at all and I do have other non-Drayton valves that seem to work ok, but I guess I’ll have to just bite the bullet and replace some of them.

@Swwils

2 жыл бұрын

TRVs don't have granular control, they are either ON or OFF. Opentherm implementation is all over the shop. You want to look into getting weather compensation for your boiler.

@mikec2505

2 жыл бұрын

@@Swwils Hmmm. Not according to Drayton who I spoke to this morning. And besides which if I boost, they work. It only seems to be when they are trying to ‘fine tune’ that they have an issue.

@Swwils

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikec2505 then get them to define what possible graduation they can introduce when the TRV has no idea what valve it's on.

Stupid question, but is a thermometer built into the TVR a accurate way to record the temperature of a room? Surely the temperature an inch away from the radiator (where the TVR is located) is a lot hotter than the actual room temperature?

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

It's not completely accurate. For that you need to pair it with a room thermostat. It's pretty good though.

@DavidGrayOK

Жыл бұрын

EvoHome allows an offset as a work around for the valve being too cosily warm right beside the radiator.

Hi Charlie, just wanted to ask how the rechargeable batteries are doing? Are they still working nicely? Had my system installed last November and I've noticed the battery levels are getting low so I might invest in rechargeables....

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Scott they're brilliant. 100% recommend. It's just so nice to be able to plug them in and put them back into the rad a few hours later and I was finding the replacement nicads just weren't lasting very long.

@scottthorneycroft5468

8 ай бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte It's that time of year again when my batteries are all beginning to need replacing so I thought I'd just check in to see how the rechargeable batteries are doing?

Great video Charlie. I am unsure you need to balance radiators with wiser. I have evohome and my system is not balanced. All the lock shield valves are fully opened. Basically it prioritises the radiators close to the boiler but when you have reached temperature in these rooms you get proper heat in the radiators further away. To me this is one of the advantages of these systems as balancing a system is always tricky.

@mikec2505

2 жыл бұрын

That’s an interesting point. I’d be interested if anyone else agrees with this. It’s not that I don’t believe you, but with my very basic DIY knowledge this seems to make sense to me, but that lack of knowledge means I can’t think of a suitable counter argument, which may mean there isn’t one, but I’m not sure! 😂

@eddyr3691

Жыл бұрын

@@mikec2505 if a few rooms far away need heat, but coincidentally a close radiator also needs heat, you will be waiting a while for the far away ones to warm up to a suitable temp, which in turn will take a longer time to get the room up to suitable temp, if it ever does. Balancing can be a pain, as its time consuming. But its worth adding that a rough ballpark balance might do - tweak the nearby rads lockshield valves down by a quarter or half turn everytime you notice that they outcompete the far away radiator on at the same time. Repeat until it is roughly balanced (at the least letting enough heat to the far away radiators so they can get the job done - it doesn't have to be perfect). No need to go farther chasing perfect even warmup on all rads, or getting a digital thermometer to measure in/out temps etc if you dont have to.

Hi there will the Tado link with Wiser?

@CharlieDIYte

3 ай бұрын

No.

Great video, Charlie. In my living room, I have two radiators with traditional TRVs. To have Wiser, system, would it be fine to have a room thermostat in the living room and keep the traditional TRVs on the radiators and the living room can still be treated as a zone controlled by the room thermostat? Thank you.

@peterwilliams5597

Жыл бұрын

I had the same setup - two rads in the kitchen without Wiser TRV heads but a wiser room stat. It does work, as the wall stat will only call for heat from the boiler if the room is colder than demand. The problem starts if you have multiple Wiser TRV’s and or wall stats in other rooms. These will call for heat and the hot water will still flow through the rads in rooms without Wiser TRV heads. The wall stat is ignored and the setting on the “old” TRV sets the room temp. In my case it was a temporary problem as the Wiser heads fitted on the cheap rad stats that came with my radiators but not operate them properly. (They had a 6mm dia pin that had a short operating movement). Swapping them out for new Drayton TRV valves resolved this. I have 10 rad stats for 11 rads (bathroom still has “old” TRV) and 6 of those are controlled as pairs in a room via the wall stat. System works very well and is showing savings already 8 months in.

@annecooper3985

Жыл бұрын

@@peterwilliams5597 Thank you very much for sharing your experience. 😊

I wish people would stop thinking of wifi and internet as the same thing. The reason Zigbee is used has Zero to do with the possible loss of internet or even the wifi falling over and everything to do with power consumption. zigbee uses next to no power but wifi would drain those batteries in under a week. Another mistake is that you are not using the smart plugs to boost your zigbee range. You don't get a choice in 99% of zigbee networks. Once they are all connected to the same network then any powered zigbee device including bulbs and smart plugs will automatically repeat the zigbee signal.

@danyalm10

2 жыл бұрын

I share your frustration with people using WiFi and Internet interchangeably! I also agree that Zigbee is all about the power consumption. I'd go as far as suggesting on 2xAA batteries I'd be surprised if WiFi lasted a day or two, but on Zigbee it could be 12-24 months depending on the device.

I had the Drayton Wiser Smart Heating System for a 10 months and its been a number of issues. My first issue was random disconnections in my conservatory, to work around the issue I spend a extra £40 for a Drayton Smart plug and this fixed the issue but some times the Smart plug disconnects as well which is pain and the battery don't last that long I replaced battery's in 6 smart radiator stats. Also random log out of the app is a pain and the room controls only control one room. The configuration is very basic it will control boiler by using opentherm but by default flow temp is 80c you need to adjust boiler maximal to a lower rate and heating always started at the maximum flow temp. I would not recommend due to high of issue. I recommend Tado or boilers weather compensation.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear about all the problems you've had. When you say it only controls one room how d'you mean?

@CrashUK28

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte the wall display can only control one room vs nest could control everything. I had issue with wireless dropping off the network and most of the battery's have needed to be replaced and I had a reset a lot of the winter. It would better if you could control the set-points for centre heating water temps. I feel that a more simple weather comp system would had worked better.

Did you get geofencing working this?

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Yes through IFTTT To be honest though I've never used it as I'm always at home. It's one automation I don't really need.

@justintemp

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte thanks. I do wonder if it's worth doing if you just remember to set away once you leave the house.

Why does wifi go down if internet goes down?

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Well the WiFi network doesn't go down but it becomes pretty useless without the internet. It's a fair point though. My point is, better for the robustness of the network to have it on its own frequency and also the benefits of it being a mesh.

@LeoShoSilva

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte if the software/firmware was on the devices then internet wouldn't affect its functionality

I made a mistake and bought Tado. It's not a mesh system and some radiators will not connect. I spent £1000 and intend to rip it out.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, not mesh? I wonder why they did that? Thanks David that's really interesting. Sorry to hear about the problems you've had.

@peterf7248

2 жыл бұрын

I looked at all the systems before going down the Tado route, the Honeywell systems looked dated and not much has been done to update it so ruled that one out, the Drayton looked great and also the Genis system, all great systems and the are from companies that are constantly developing the product, I expect the software to be changed over time. I installed the Tado last September and it has been brilliant, I fitted TRVs on all radiators except the downstairs toilet and the main bathroom to allow boiler overrun, this is fine as it keeps these room warm and dries towels, I also fitted room stats to 6 room and the temperature in these rooms are very stable and accurate, I have found the family don’t complain about being too hot or cold, everyone’s room is at the temperature they like, my wife works from home and her office is warm all day and looking at the heat info this room requires little heat to maintain the desired temperature, I hound the hall call for the most heat so we invested in a new Rock front door and changed the single radiator for a slim double and this has made the hall nice and warm and reduced the call for heat to being one of the lowest in the house, now the only two problems I have had are the en-suite radiator valve had a leak around the pin and water got into the TRV as it was horizontal and damaged the valve, the other problem was the bridge failed and it was replace FOC by Tado. So all in all I think the Tado is a perfect product for our house and family, I think if I fitted the Drayton I would be as equally happy, just for any of the manufacturers you will be happy as a smart heating system transforms your house and reduces bills.

Wiser has a fundamental design flaw. Without an in-home display the app is the only interface but it is not possible to have family or guest users. The only way to share control is to give full access to the account including the ability to change the master password or delete the account altogether.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

David, they can access it through a Google home hub, or a few people have said they've repurposed the kid's old iPad to create a display. Granted this second option still gives you password issues.

Decharging is not a word, but discharging is :-)

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Thanks 😉

Nothing prevents you from using LSD NiMH rechargeables. They are about 1.45V when freshly charged. And work in 99% of cases when you need to replace alkaline. If not, then device is a garbage which requires you to replace a battery after consuming less than half of its capacity. Not To say Alkalines have 1.5V only when completely new, during their useful lifetime voltage drops to about 1V, empty voltage for NiMH is about 1V too but they have less steep discharge curve. These EBL batteries are garbage for slow discharge, they have a buck converter inside which constantly drains power. Another downside is that you won't get empty battery warning but a sharp cutoff instead.

This is what imagine Gordon Ramsey might look like if you ironed out his face

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Love it 🤣

I bought this system after watching the initial video. I can’t complain about the initial usage worked absolutely fine. The only issue is if you change your Access Point. After doing this it has turned out to be nightmare. We are stuck with no heating. The technical support has been appalling!. I contacted them over a week via email after the “work Around” they have posted online failed and received nothing back. I’ve taken the day off work to to be at home to call them. Your basically trying to setup the device using the device you are speaking to them on and the call drops when connecting to the devices wifi connection during setup. This happened 3 times with 3 different technical advisors and not one of the called back. You may get great technical support if you are posting a youtube video about the device but otherwise if you may decide to upgrade you home’s network equipment I would stay clear of this device.

@CharlieDIYte

Жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that. Call head office rather than the support line. They have technical guys working there - who are much better than the outsourced team in support. Support seemed to be a lot better when I did the video - possibly because at that point it wasn't outsourced.

discharging!

Not strictly speaking correct when you talked about WiFi and internet connections... 😕 If you lose the internet due to your provider having issues you still have a WiFi network in your home - but without the internet capability. So if the smart heating was on a wifi network and you lost internet - no problem unless you lost power to the house at the same time (at which point you would lose the router). WiFi and Internet are not synonymous 🙂. Think of the internet as a service which is available to anything connected to the WiFi network...

@ssssssgr

2 жыл бұрын

Importantly this means that if you internet goes down you can actually still control the heating through the app provided you are connected to the same WiFi network, you just won't be able to do it remotely through the cloud - the app searches for the controller on the local network before it goes through an internet connection

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Ok fair point, but it's better to have it on a mesh rather than on a WiFi network.

@ssssssgr

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte It's why the Drayton is a bit 'best of both worlds', mesh network for the sensors/valves for better coverage and much better battery life with WiFi on the controller for remote access, the distinction is that the controller/app can work with local WiFi only so if the internet goes down it still works and is controllable through the app. You get some some where the app control is over the internet only, so it would go down if you internet went down - just feels worth clarifying that despite the controller being WiFi Drayton doesn't have that problem, it's happy to communicate over the local network. That's the distinction between WiFi and internet Phil is making, hope that makes sense! That and the Home assistant integration were major selling points for me

Your explanation of why the Zigbee wireless network is used is flawed. The main reason for using Zigbee rather than WiFi is that it can use a mesh. It has nothing to do with the reliability of WiFi. You have also conflated the reliability of your Internet connection with the use of WiFi. Even if your broadband connection fails it does not mean that WiFi could not be used to communicate between local devices on the same network

@danyalm10

2 жыл бұрын

The mesh system is certainly a benefit of Zigbee, but the key reason is that Zigbee has extremely low power usage compared to WiFi. Zigbee is very slow compared to WiFi, but built to send small packets of data a short distance, so is perfect for smart devices.

I'll just still to my boiling hot wood burner...

Charlie I have a Heat Pump and I’m getting slaughtered with the cost to run it,like for like compared to my 3 Combi Boilers over the years I am on my second Heat Pump the installers went bust and the next outfit said the high bills were because the Hitachi was too small and fitted a 17Kw Grant Heat Pump.and no one wants to know full stop.I am banging my head off the wall like for like Heat Pump is not in the picture I don’t care what they say.LIKE FOR LIKE not a chance,tied into 7 year thing proper conned MCS they don’t want to know.Cowboys

@Swwils

2 жыл бұрын

You need to take a step back and look at your room by room heat loss calculation. If the calculation is correct then check your system design and installation to this calculation. If its still not matching up then something is massively affecting your heat losses without being obvious- draughts most likely.

@Allegedly2right

2 жыл бұрын

@@Swwils This is the comments that comes up but like for like shoots it straight down,Facts are facts Potatoes for Potatoes KWh.£.€.$.Heat Pump compared to my Gas fire there is only one winner and it isn’t the Heat Pump I have the bills to prove it.

@Swwils

2 жыл бұрын

@@Allegedly2right you literally cannot have a like for like boiler Vs heatpump. You need to have a system designed for lower flow temperatures in order to get the coefficient of performance to a level where the electrical cost is better than the cost of gas.

@Allegedly2right

2 жыл бұрын

@@Swwils Exactly that's the installation teams job didn't work for the simple reason they never had a clue because they probably did a 2 week course and are now qualified engineers Allegedly no comebacks who do you complain too, not your fault don't believe all you read costing a fortune

Good vid, but i think a couple of statements you made about Wi-Fi aren’t true. You can also run your wife in a mesh - the standard supports this and I run some of my outside Wi-Fi antennas in mesh mode. Also Wi-Fi rarely “goes down”. My one never really goes down - but the internet does. It depends on how you install your Wi-Fi. There should be an option to use your home Wi-Fi - like Sonos does.

@CharlieDIYte

6 ай бұрын

You're right but WiFi meshing is a relatively recent thing. Not sure it was widely available when I did my first Drayton video.

@thepurplesband

6 ай бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte I use UniFi with around 6 antennas in the ceilings hard wired back to a network hub. The hub then connects to the router. It’s about 5 years old so has been available for quite a while on expensive systems. I’m not being picky or critical of your content - it was very interesting. It’s just a shame they use their own mesh - it will probably interfere with the WiFi spectrum despite whatever claims they make. That’s why i switch off the mesh network on my Sonos system and also my Sky boxes.

Wifi is not the same as internet, if the internet is down there is no reason why the wifi network in the house shouldn't keep running.

@CharlieDIYte

2 жыл бұрын

Fair point but there's not much point in having a WiFi network if the internet is down.

@drsquirrel00

2 жыл бұрын

@@CharlieDIYte If you have control systems on wifi then you don't need the internet to be active for it to work (unless it *has* to go through the internet... thats its own problem and not a wifi vs zigbee/zwave problem)

This video is not compatible with neuro-diverse viewers, as there are far too many words coming in a constant stream, with very little structure, few pauses, and not much repetition and recapping.

I've found the Drayton wiser to be simple but totally flawed. Calibration is terrible and even the thermostat readings are 1 C off which defeat the whole purpose!