Join 'Heat Geeks Heating Help for Homeowners" on Facebook for bespoke advice on YOUR specific system.

@jezlawrence720

Жыл бұрын

Amazing! ...if only you hadn't quit Facebook in January aaaaaa (This is not a complaint, it's great that you guys are offering that. I'll just have to convince the missus to join lol)

@HeatGeek

Жыл бұрын

@@jezlawrence720 just create a pseudo account!

@davidegarga

Жыл бұрын

Hi Adam in all your video you never mention to get the power you need for your air sorse heating from your solar panel and battery storage please can you let me know why

@tu5149

Жыл бұрын

Can you please do an update now we have to pay over £5k for energy. Thanks.

@HeatGeek

Жыл бұрын

@T U this video is even more relevant now.

That is a superb explanation of how to operate our central heating. I have been keeping our room stat at 17oC all night & most of the day, (we are retired & at home constantly). I have been really worried that we were using far more gas than we needed to. But when the heating has been off for 8 or 12 hours, it takes forever for the house to warm up so I have felt that that was too costly so it's nice to hear that you agree. We are lucky to have a well insulated house & a year old combi boiler, our old one had been installed in 1984 when the house was built, but packed up last Christmas. The new one stopped a week ago because of the big freeze, but the condensing outlet had got frozen at the bottom bend. I had to start near the roof with a hairdryer until it had all melted. Added some insulation around the pipe & got rid of the 90o bend at the bottom & all is good now. Very scary being up a ladder to use the hair drier at 80 years old, but our plumber was too busy with emergency call outs. Thanks for an interesting video.

@QH96

Жыл бұрын

You're still young at heart 💪

@gigabyte2573

Жыл бұрын

YesI found this to be the case too, having a smart meter allows me to experiment with these issues, I found by leaving my thermo at 15c 24-7 I use less gas than turning it off during the night, I found that the boiler has to work harder for a longtime to raise the temperature to the desired temp in the morning, which costs more in gas to raise the temp back to where it should be compared to allowing the boiler to cutin during the night, plus the structure of the house never drops either helping to maintain a steady heat.

@foppo101

Ай бұрын

Same here anthony At 75 Iam not going to sit in the cold.We are both 75 live is to short.

Wow you literally just validated that the way I have my Atag i15s boiler setup (for 20 degrees basically all day, and 18.5 degrees at night [because we have a 1 year old who we want to keep warmer than us adults]) is basically optimal. We find the house takes a while to heat up - so running a steady temp all day gives us the comfort levels we want. I have worked from home for 2 years (soon to change) so having a warm house has been helpful/comforting. We have weather comp and its a condensing boiler - and it has low temperatures generally - which is great when you have a little one who you don't want to hurt themselves on a red hot radiator. The new tech in boilers is pretty great - but it's fapping complicated. I reckon 90% of homeowners will never bother to learn about this stuff - and I reckon 70% of plumbers don't understand how to tune a modern heating system. My installer didn't understand how to set it up properly for our home's characteristics, and I don't blame them: you need to live with the home and the heating system - configuring it for 2 to 3 months to get it right. Even after maybe 50 hours tuning everything (TRVs, timings, temps etc) - it still needs a tweak once in a while. It's absolutely exhausting tbh.

I've followed this and left the heating on, the results have been fantastic! House is nice and comfortable. Heating bill has increased by £197 and getting my house repossessed now. Just kidding, it has improved thermal Comfort and I'm not seeing the vent exhausting loads compared to the neighbours

I am really shocked you have only 38k subs.. man.. every single plumber should subscribe, and every DIY at heart person should.. absolute gold stuff

excellent, describes my situation to a T! Had a 30 year old boiler changed to a Valliant condensing boiler. Amazed at the difference, but getting a new boiler didnt take into account the 30 year old TRVs. Your explanation of the improvements with heating all the time, (retired in bungalow with solid brick walls) almost decribes me peffectly. thank you. very professionally explained.

Thank you for such a thought provoking video and appreciate the time and effort these things take. I’ve passed this on to my two lads who have wet systems as it will help them make a more informed choice than the ones currently doing the rounds. I have a warm air system powered by a very efficient condensing boiler and as we have an open plan ground floor operates very well but I cannot regulate the temperature it operates at but it is much lower than conventional wet systems. As retirees we need heating on all throughout the day and I’ve approached my heating from a similar ‘speeding car’ car approach. The house is quite well insulated, cavity and loft, and my night time stat is set at 16 degrees. Current weather conditions dictate that it does operate, however I build the house temperature slowly first thing in the morning. To help address the cost we go to bed an hour earlier and get up a little later. The first main heat is at 17 degrees for ½ an hour incrementing up to 18 or 18.5 by 10 in the morning. As I have a smart thermostat I can adjust from my armchair raising to 19 degrees early evening. I do supplement the heating when it gets too cold with heated throw-overs which makes us very comfortable. I find that if the house is left to cool down too much you know pretty instantly how hard the boiler works to build up the heat lost - whether all this saves money I can’t say but as you say it’s also about comfort and preserving our health👍🏻 Kindest regards and Merry Christmas Mike

Hurrah! At last I have found someone explaining and SHOWING how to use the controls on my Air Source Heat Pump. I am pleased I got an AHSP, I just wish the manufacturers instructions were as helpful and as clear as these videos Congratulations Heat Geeks! This is exactly what I have been looking for since I had the system installed.

Thanks for your time, in putting all of these videos together. It's important information for people to have, right now.

Firstly, don't stop doing these videos it really brings these important points to people's attention, any comments of mine is subject to discussion ;-). I had one comment to add/make, when intermittent heating with a lower delta t you will have a lower heat loss, I'm thinking can i be bothered to calculate this for my own home. Anyway many years ago i just used to give advice on heating as you put it about occupancy e.g. if your home a lot then underfloor is brilliant, if your at work all day and out on weekends then radiators or fan coils (love fan coil). A test was carried out with heat pumps in same house types, one ran at a constant 21 the other time clocked for 6 hours of the day. The one on all the time had a great SCOP compared to the other, but the other was less money to run a year (£200, at the time). Anyway all the best.

I have only recently started to look into heat pumps, your videos are so clear and informative, they should be subsidised by the government. Simply amazing!

@richardlewis5316

Жыл бұрын

But from the figures given they are expensive to install, ugly radiators and expensive to run if the house is empty until 18.00 every night so it has to be heating an empty house 16 hours a day.

Entirely agree. I’ve spent so much time trying to educate friends & family that a consistent, low heat where you just adjust the target temperature during night, day & perhaps evening if you want to comfortably relax is the way to go. When we bought our last house, we had prepayment meters for a while which were obviously awful, but gave me great awareness how much we were spending. Even though I was naive to the flow rate at that point, the constant temperature targets worked a treat. Another level again since I belatedly cottoned on to the flow rate a few years ago…

I've taken a different approach. We live in South Australia and the winters here are mild (we don't get snow), but still cold. Our house is double brick, with lots of insulation in the roof and triple glazed windows. We have a large solar array on the roof. I considered batteries, but our main use of power is heating in the winter and so we have 3 Heat Banks. A Heat Bank is a simple device. An electric element is surrounded by a thermal mass (Magnesite bricks). 2 of our Heat Banks are charged during the day by the solar array and give up their latent heat during the evening. The third (largest) heat bank is charged during the night using off peak power and gives up stored heat during the day. The hot water system is a Heat Pump run on a timer, so it only runs during the day when the solar panels are generating power and we only run the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer during the day. The system has worked well for us.

@beatsg

Жыл бұрын

Triple glazed windows, I'm jealous!

@wholeNwon

4 ай бұрын

Impressive.

Very informative, I have been telling friends the same story for years but I don't think that many believe me. Well done!

Just a thought regarding condensing boilers and a bit on heat pumps for good measure. As you say, the vast majority of people with gas or oil boilers now have condensing boilers. So far, so good. What’s not good is that many, possibly most of these, have been installed and ‘commissioned’ to run at high temperature flow rates, as was the norm on pre-condensing boilers pre 2004/5, and often run at 80* flow and 70* return temperatures (or there or thereabouts). This means that whilst the boilers are indeed ‘condensing boilers’ they rarely, if ever, run in condensing mode. Even this is understandable, given that human nature demands that when cold, you want to warm up as quickly as possible, and people want to practically burn their hands on a stinging hot radiator to prove to themselves that their heating system is on. This video helps to re-educate people on how to effectively and efficiently use their condensing boiler systems. And I believe that re-education is needed, even more so with heat pumps which generally can not operate at these high flow temps. Part (and only part) of the reason why heat pumps have gained a bad reputation for being expensive to run is because people have blasted extra electricity into them in their quest for high temperature heat in short bursts. Liked and subscribed, by the way…

@kanehardy

7 ай бұрын

What is the ideal range of flow rate temperatures for a condensing boiler and the optimum operating flow rate temperature within this range?

@skatergirlskatergirl2486

5 ай бұрын

So true re education. Just been reading the manual of my brand new Worcester Bosch combi which openly says the boiler has been delivered with the heating settings high. Then buried in the energy consumption table it says that the fabled 98.9% energy efficiency is actually achieved at 30% return temperatures, ie low. But how many people would notice that or even know what a 'low-temperature regime' is? I suppose the manufacturers fear that if they delivered the boiler set at low temperatures, new owners would complain their radiators weren't scorching hot and think the boiler wasn't working.

well explained. My home is quite modern. I increased my loft insulation to 250mm. I installed hive and new radiators, bigger ones and put insulation behind radiators. Set boiler to 60'c By using my heating as normal timed, when I am in, my boiler showed to be on about 3-4 hours on the hive trend graph. By leaving it on at 18 and bumping to 19.5 when I am in, the boiler is on for as little as 35 mins in 24 hrs. I am 100% convinced my fuel usage is so much less. I never used heating like this but its so much better, the whole heat mass of the building and every thing in it, is kept at a constant. I also use stats on all the radiators and a hive thermostat on the rad in the bedroom.

@richardc1983

2 жыл бұрын

Consider changing the HIVE, the only thing it does that is smart is connect to the internet to turn your heating on and off. It doesn’t;’t allow automatic modulation of the boiler via opentherm (presuming you have a modern boiler).

In support of your video, my ten year old medium sized 3-bed home (in central Scotland) has the condensing boiler controls permanently set for 15 hours at 19 degrees and 15 degrees overnight which lets the boiler run at peak efficiency. Prior to installing a solar PV system, I consumed only 10,500 units of gas for heating, hot water and cooking but this has further reduced by 2,000 units since I installed a solar PV system with an Eddi energy management unit ensuring surplus generation meets the bulk of the hot water load for nine months of the year.

@charlespleydell6746

Жыл бұрын

I've got a Solic immersion diverter on my 1.5kW solar array on my boat and I'd reckon it provides all my hot water for 6 months. They're great aren't they? Only reason it doesn't do more is that I have shading issues for 3 hrs per day. Got to love free heat :-)

@briangriffiths114

Жыл бұрын

@@charlespleydell6746 Totally agree!

Great, informative video. I have a thick floor slab, UFH, ASHP and a home battery. I've recently (last year) found that by running my heating up to 26 over night using my cheap electric (5.5p/kWh about to go up to 8.25p) the heat coming out of the floor slab keeps the house nice and warm up to about 6pm when the heat pump kicks in again to keep it at 20. By doing this I hardly ever need to use any peak rate electric and am saving quite a lot. It seems completely counter-intuitive to have downstairs at its warmest whilst I'm in bed or at work but that's by far the cheapest way to run my house.

@dhutch2000

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely not a supprise at all, doesn't always work if you have undersized night storage heaters and only need heat in the evening, but if you have a good size heat store (in this case your floor slab) making use of cheap rate night electricity is a no brainer.

@ThomasBomb45

Жыл бұрын

id be curious with regards to flow rate, maintenance, etc how this works out. if the heat pump doesn't suffer efficiency loss or break down, then yes a no brainer. But since those seem to be factors it seems more like a yes brainer

Very good indeed, but a few observations Background - My own home is a modern double glazed insulated two storey of 100m2, high thermal mass with plastered walls downstairs, low thermal mass upstairs - Having a monitoring system which tracks temps, gas, etc., I was able to tinker and observe the response. The Buderus gas combi runs 24/7, but actual feed temperature versus displayed was adrift -5 to -10 degrees (non-linear). Main thermostat is set at 19.5. As installed, the pump was running full blast, I reduced it to the middle setting once I'd figured what the total required flow was (uses less power to no detriment), and time to boiler temperature was faster. All but the main radiators were found oversized ca 40%, the main rads were changed from -9% to +9%, constant flow type thermostatic valves (minus the thermostat head for the mains) were subsequently fitted throughout so system balance is constant. Were it physically possible I'd bump the mains to +40%, the why will become clearer. Winter temps here can fall to -20 so after adding additional insulation and playing with the system for 5 years to very good effect, some observations on setback and boiler temps for homes of high thermal mass. Figure out your boiler cycle time, viz when the return temp ramps up, the boiler is more efficient the cooler the return, it is important. Don't take the displayed temp as gospel, check it, and don't be concerned by the output temperature, it's the return which derives efficiency. If reducing temps, check the cycle time when returning to normal, it is more efficient to step it up gradually, even if it takes two cycles. eg I know my main rads begin pushing heat back to the combi ca 18 minutes into a heat cycle - If it goes over 21 minutes I bump the boiler temp by 5c to bring the cycle back down, getting so far as 70c (in reality 60) in the last winter (-15) with considerably less gas consumed than having longer cycles. If going away and coming back to a cold house, take it up in small bites (in my case 20 min cycles) leaving it for a half hour. I made the same 2 week winter trip in two consecutive years, leaving the house set to 10c - First year I let it run for hours, second year took it up in stages, same time to target temperature but saved massively on gas consumed after the second trip. :) Bumping insulation levels made by far the greatest impact, lopping 50% off my gas consumption immediately, it's been dropping slowly ever since which has been a bonus. I'd have loved to have fitted an opentherm board to the boiler, but it was so expensive and locked in protocols I gave up on the idea. Good luck.

I fitted an eph controller with opentherm. The rooms are far more comfortable and the boiler runs quieter. Fairly sure it is using less fuel, but i still set the setback to a low level, about 14 degrees. I programmed every day for the times we are in, we have a fairly consistent routine. When the program temperature rises the boiler fires fairly high but soon drops down within half an hour, with the radiators only being warm. But it isnt going on at all until october, or the internal temp drops to 17 deg. 😂

I have long espoused and operated this method. I have a programmable thermostat so I simply set the temperature for different times of the day and leave the heating on round the clock. It costs no more to keep the house relatively warm by heating constantly as opposed to letting the fabric (thermal mass) go cold and then burning loads of gas to get it back up to the desired temperature.

This has to be one of the best videos I’ve seen on this topic. Thank you. I was stuck in the mindset of “on and off” times, despite having a smart thermostat etc. Much food for thought as we have a reasonable thermal mass having internal brick walls, and a condensing boiler etc.

@HeatGeek

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Graham. Importantly your smart stat MUST be wired via bus connection. What stat and boiler do you have?

@RossTallo

Жыл бұрын

@@HeatGeek Hi there, why is wired controllers critical please? Great channel BTW 👍🏻

@Felix-st2ue

8 ай бұрын

​@@RossTalloIf the boilert doesnt know whether the thermostats are open or not it will kick in unnecessary and waste energy.

Great video. I've found with my new condensing boiler it uses less if kept running with small drops in internal temp - and a 60c flow temp. If I ran it like an old boiler (2hrs am, off all day, on in eve) then it used loads of gas and the exhaust would boost right out in a big cloud. If I run it continuously it seems to stay in the condensing mode more where it barely uses any gas and the exhaust steam barely 'dribbles' out. I use less gas and the house seems warmer.

@HA05GER

8 ай бұрын

Yeh I run mine all the time I believe my flow is at 70 and I very rarely noticed the radiators being hot as the boiler just ticks over instead of flat out then off.

This video has helped so much I am in a housing association 1920s large roomed through terrace high ceilings large rooms and my heating bills were beyond high I am not well and home a lot and totally clueless about managing my boiler n thermostat my home was either too hot or too cold I had no idea about how to manage the hand I have a lovely housing association but never informed of anything regarding this and especially with the cost of living and rising fuel prices,I truly believe we need more information out there for pp on low income but I till I decided to google how to manage my ideal boiler n thermostat because the bills n the too hot too cold home so thank you I am going to rewatch again 🙏🏻🔥🥶

Thanks for a educated unbiased explanation. I've been into heating since 60s dip67 didn't even need electrics, gravity heating /hotwater clockwork 7 day timer ,more a electronics engineer than gas fitter at retirement. From over engineered vailliants to camping quality French/Italian appliances, rule of thumb as you said bigger hse bigger the bill. Personally pushing heatpumps like diesel cars now electric government wrong.

Bravo Adam! As succinct as ever, keep up the good work. 👍

Great videos with a lot of information. This past two years I have been looking at ways to reduce heating costs. Best Buy was an oil flow meter to let me know how much oil I was using each day. From that we have carried out simple measures to reduce heating costs significantly. Silicon between window frame and walls a benefit extra insulation around the oil burner significant saving.more loft insulation good. One way valves on vents to reduce drafts significant. Running the heating all day with out kick back was break even but house warm all day. Next steps will be more wall insulation at a big cost and a heat pump when they are matured a bit more.

When I bought this house 28 years ago [built 1970] 3 bed semi] I was told to leave the heating on 24/7 as it's cheaper, I tried various timed settings and it was cheaper to leave it on set at 18c. In 2010 I had a new Baxi Solo 15kw boiler fitted, again tried timed settings I used more gas, timed on 6.30am and off 10pm 3.5 units used, timed on at 4.30am to 10.30pm 2.5 units used , on 24/7 1.5 units used [gas meter is in cubic feet] Unless we have very cold weather usage is pretty much the same Running gas fire and heating I use 2.5 units per day, gas fire on around 12 hours and has an input of 6.85kw output 4kw The best way to see if leaving your heating on 24/7 or timed is to take week when temp and gas usage are the same then try your timed method for 3 days and leaving on 24/7 for 3 days, read your meter before and after each , also turn your boiler temperature setting down to the minimum it will work on, if it numbered 1 to 6 set it to number 1, if it just has an arrow find the best point and mark it . This guy says houses don't normally drop below 16c , mine does, without heating it's about 5c warmer than outside

Brilliant, thanks. I am retired and have recently installed an air-source heat pump, which we run at a higher temperature during the day. It has made our lives so much more comfortable. Now we plan to make the house (1900, solid-walled, detached) as energy efficient as possible - so I will be watching more of your videos. Sadly your map shows that Cambridge is not a place where Heat Geeks are active!

@HeatGeek

Жыл бұрын

Bit of a black hole around there at the moment!

@JohnBell-rf6oj

Жыл бұрын

@@HeatGeek Also North Wales!

I miss the time when I was living in a 70s flat in Poland heated up by the hot water from a nearby power plant (whole city runs on this). Radiators would come on in autumn and go off in the spring, steady temperature throughout the day with lower temps during the night (you can obviously dial down the rads yourself if you want). No mold, nice and toasty 23C all the time and none of the faff I'm having now in a detached house 😂

I do !!! I watched your boiler flow videos I made 700 litre of kero last over a year filled in April this year and not used a drop since delivery but I don’t use the boiler to heat hot water but my stat is set at 21 degrees in winter 24/7 and with boiler flow at around 48 degrees flow temp so boiler is always condensing it was totally set up wrong and I’m saving big money all down to these videos !!!

I've run my condensing combi 24/7 for years now, before, when I would run it in the morning and evening I found doing so would create the perfect situation for mould, the walls of the house would cool down causing condensation to form on them when the heating was turned on. Sometimes I could never get the house warm enough to reach my bones because the walls would act as one big heat sink. Thanks, Heat Geeks.

@skatergirlskatergirl2486

5 ай бұрын

I've just replaced my 40-year-old non-condensing combi boiler which I used to run twice a day only, in the classic way. When I was WFH I was so cold in the 'off' times that I got desperate, and I'd wake up to a lake of condensation on every single-glazed window. A search on the internet suggested to run the boiler all day long at a lowish temperature (in my case 18-19 deg). With much trepidation and anxiety about what I thought would be bigger gas bills, I switched the boiler to be on all day long. My life changed totally. Finally I was comfortable, the condensation stopped (mostly because the internet also told me to open each window a tiny amount (1-2mm literally) to get decent ventilation, and my gas bills *still* went down 30%. Obv I was thrilled. But it's such an effort to convince family to do the same. They are stuck on twice-a-day heating and not comfortable. Glad Heat Geek and others are getting the word out.

I live in a 2 bedroom , Victorian, stone built gable end terrace - I have tested this over time in terms of how much my gas bill is and found keeping my several years old Baxi Combi Boiler on 24/7 in winter to maintain an average temp of 20* costs no more than switching it off overnight & off again during the day whilst out at work

@Thursdaym2

Жыл бұрын

Interesting but can't understand why you need a temp as high as 20C?

@zane___k7333

Жыл бұрын

@@Thursdaym2 why not.

@nvw2978

Жыл бұрын

I find 17° temperature positively tropical 🏝. At the moment I’m putting it on for 1 hour a day to take the chill off the air….I set it to 15°, with a hot water bottle I’m toasty

@bizzielizziearies5439

Жыл бұрын

It's very true I left mine on 24 hrs to test the theory of a workmate and my gas bill was no higher than when I turned it on and off.

@Thursdaym2

Жыл бұрын

@@zane___k7333 Why do you need 20c? Put a sweater on and do some exercise, maybe just walking around the house. Am sorry if you are not physically able to do that. I am 83, my wife is 77 and we have no problem with lower home temperatures.

Great video - as a gas Engineer with poor training it’s beneficial 👍🏻

This is an EXCELLENT video! A masterclass of providing real value to the viewer. Definitely worth a like 🙂

Your channel deserves way more likes and subscriptions. Liked and subscribed.

Really helpful and well explained. Thank you.

I use schedules, sensors and presence indicators (is the TV on in the room?) to change target temps. Different rooms have different targets at different times of the day. Last time I intervened and touched the heating was April to turn the flow temp down to 45*C for summer. Before that it was months and that was a reboot to add a new feature to the system. Normally, when I'm out all day at work, I have a morning and an evening schedule which sets those "setback temps" as you call them, to "medium", a few degrees cooler than "comfortable". Outside of those times the setback temps down another few degrees, ending up around 16*C when the house is vacant, idle or overnight. If a room is in use (TV on), the temp goes to "comfort" level in that room, say 20*C for the office, 19*C for the living room, 18*C for the bedroom. The rest of the house is "unzoned" but has TRVs set to 2 or 3 and 5 in the bathroom. The balance I am running is with the thermal mass, I'm not really heating up the brick/block work, so I'm just getting air temp up and when the heating goes back off, the brickwork quickly absorbs that heat. Given my heat loss issues explain in another comment, I'm kinda stuck this way for now. An idea did cross my mind to more directly heat the brick work, just like a coal fire would have. Not quite sure the cheapest way to achieve that. Blasting the heating won't do it, the building loses too much too fast over 20*C. Direct heat is dangerous as it's got wall paper. Anyway with prices as they are this autumn. I'm setting my minimum temps down to 14*C and setting up humidity monitoring, heating to lower RH in "emergencies" and weather compensation to try and avoid damp due to ambient temp/pressure changes. At 14*C you are right on the damp line so humidity becomes very important.

@TheZippyMark

Жыл бұрын

How are you achieving all that out of interest? Smart TRVs?

Here in New England, with a large home of over 2k sq. ft. It's best to leave it on steady. It's more comfortable and cost the same or less. You can turn it down at night when everyone is in bed but it doesn't make a lot of difference.

Great video - thank you so much! The clearest and most balanced explanation I’ve heard so far!

Interesting video thanks for sharing. Quite a complicated subject isn't it? It would be great to be able to test solid state heating vs 'on demand heating' say by using one method over a week and the other over another week and comparing total energy used but it's not that simple? Of course external temperature would vary significantly unless you live somewhere where the weather is constant, not the UK! It might be 15c one week and 5c the other! Cheers.

@beatsg

Жыл бұрын

Great idea/question

Absolutely no clue now! Too many variables - if only there was a website that took all these in to account and gave you best advice

We have a Geothermal GSHP and constant is the way to go with this system. The reason is going from say 68F to 72F will cause the 'toaster heat' to activate. So steady state is the way to go with our system.

We live in a 1989 built brick interior walls house. We had an air source heat pump fitted in July by a reputable firm Cotswold Energy. It took them 5 days as there is lagged copper piping coming in through house and under floorboards and then through to a wall in the airing cupboard tank. The airing cupboard has lots of dials and levers and piping in it. We've lost one drying shelf as the tank is bigger... it's toasty in there so I can still hang up my wet housecoat from showering daily and wet towel on hair washing days. The gas was disconnected. Therefore we only pay one (electricity) standing charge. We had double to triple glazing done in August which also kept out some of the sweltering heat we had briefly that month. We finished adding maximum loft insulation a week ago. Checked on 25th November before that and we had 6.2kw of hot water/radiators use to every 1kw of energy drawn in that month. So that's 600% efficiency not the 400% we were told we would get when we had house surveyed and only needed one swop to a larger radiator in one room . Compare that with gas at only 90% efficiency! You are told to keep heating on day and night to ensure the system runs properly and we keep it at 18-19 during day and drop it to 17-18 overnight. Bill was £140? In November when heat was on every day and night and that includes keeping one EV car charged. The great thing about the heat pump is that the hot water is pumped harder out of the larger (than previously) tank in the airing cupboard which means we are doing away with both electric showers which just guzzle electricity much more than anything else inside the house. As we can now have shower head system directly from the taps. (For a few weeks between getting rid of leccy shower and getting heat pump the new shower from taps system just dribbled out.) I was dead against going from gas to electricity from the pump due to the High cost £8.5k after the £5k subsidy but we now get much more heat for less cost. I also need to say our leccy was fixed Dec 2021 to Dec 22 at 5p/kw for 4 hour night time cheap leccy and 28p/kw all other time. With Octopus. So bills will rise. It was that cheap cos we have an electric car. Next month it's going up to 12p and 45p. We have 12 panel of solar on roofs facing east and west not south and battery but only get say 1.2 kw produced per day in winter. Most of the year we don't get anywhere near what we need despite filling battery up for cheap during the night. If we had more roof space we would have more solar and more battery as the battery only stores 6kw and can only release 3.5 kw which is why 8.5-10kw showers were draining the battery and using the grid simultaneously. We have had a gadget called Eddi from My Energy fitted in the airing cupboard which will on the rare occasions in the summer when the battery is full divert excess energy when the battery is full to heating the water in the auring cupboard tank, rather than get the tiny 5p/kw money back from handing it back to the Grid. (PS We are down to 400% efficiency now it's blardy freezing.)

Damn! When you finally got to the bit I was interested in, you referred me to other videos LOL! I was here for the debate between heat loss and thermal mass in a low efficiency building and how/where/why to set your setbacks and boost routines. I'll follow a few more videos :) Cheers.

Glad I watched this, Just started a bit of a project... 1830's house with Stone staircase, I hadn't considered the Thermal inertia of those stairs or the thick walls. I think the house would benefit from steady state heating - but need to figure out a control set up for the boiler - Where do I start? (no heatGeeks in my area of Montrose, Angus and the 1 in arbroath's website is down.)

@edinburghheating7414

Жыл бұрын

Check out Plumbing & Renewables Ltd in Elgin if it's not too late. I met these guys on a training course recently and they know their stuff. They will definitely travel to Montrose.

I think the _worst_ option is to set the heating too high - So that it gets too warm. The bigger the temperature differential from inside to outside, the higher the rate of transfer. Some people will set their radiators to 6, thinking it gets warmer faster. But instead it just makes it uncomfortable warm inside. I find that setting to 1 or 2 makes the room about 20*c

@bassplaya69er

Жыл бұрын

sounds like your flow temperature is too high

@ConstructiveMinds100

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like you have not discovered thermostat despite is 21 century

Thanks for this video, l have a newly installed air source heat pump and the info you have provided is just what l need, thanks again.

Brilliant - anyone engagibg this conversation should just link here. Thanks Heat Geek!

The channel I've been praying for. I have a 3 bed semi detached new build from 2015and has always been confused when the temperature numbers come into play on the thermostat. In winter I've always been confused with what to set my digital thermostats wall controls to before it becomes "you have the heating too high". I always putt it at about 21.5c but often still feels cold, but I worry going higher is basically like having the tap on at full blast. What is a good number to aim for before it's too high if you want to save money on bills?

@HeatGeek

Жыл бұрын

The lowest your comfortable at. You'll find that as you reduce your flow temperature and elingate your heating times you'll be more comfortable at lower temperatures though. Watch the "mustbwatch before buying a smart stat" video that will be your biggest life change for comfort and cost

Great video as always. Can send this to our customers. We’re on a mission to reduced heating curves on heat pumps.

This is a great channel I'm learning a lot.

@HeatGeek the reason I use setback on a heated floor is so that when I go to bed or wake up, or when I hang out in a living room, the floor is actually warm. So I drop the temperature by 2C during night, or during working hours, just so that I can start recovering slowly when I want actually a warm floor.

Another excellent video, I do think there are those amongst us though that may still struggle to get it given they may have basic on off systems that go full pelt during the timed period. My parents don't even have a room thermostat. I understand it fully but any chance of a more basic version with less big words lol.

@HeatGeek

2 жыл бұрын

The subject just is complex. And I'm glad people are starting to realise so, so they will listen to the pros.. hence advising to call a heat geek

@richardc1983

2 жыл бұрын

@@HeatGeek yep got one going out to my parents tmrw based on your advice for the boiler etc. Please do an even simpler video if possible as I like the car accelerator analogy. Some people will still struggle with the depth. Towards the end even I was seeing double lol but it's late.

As a heat pump service technician I always tell customers to only use it when you need it, so turn it off when you are no longer using the room, this includes using the cooling-A/C mode, And also includes ducted systems. The Air to air exchange units i work with heat a room up very fast about 15 minutes but the house's here in NZ loose heat very quickly. Unless I come by the odd heated floor system, I recommend leaving it on at a lower temperature.

@beatsg

Жыл бұрын

This is the info I was looking for, it's different in NZ/Aus Do you recommend a temperature range for efficiency too?

Great video. We have a 30's house, but refurbished and generally very well insulated and double glazed. We have a condensing gas boiler and the house heats up very quickly. I was interested though in your comment about the overnight temperature generally not dropping below 16. We live on the south coast (Sussex), so it's quite mild, and we're often down to 14 -15 overnight in winter. What should I look for first for heat loss? Loft is insulated so not sure where we're losing it...

@smrtysam

Жыл бұрын

I think Roger and Vicky know each other.

Great video and channel! Do you know where I can find controls compatable with NTI or maybe Ariston combi boilers? Seems a fools errand to learn about all of this if my local techs won't learn about it or sell me the equipment to truly control the system myself. Thanks!

Thank you for this video. Just having to have a new combi installed and will use this to inform how i set the hive going forward!

@HeatGeek

Жыл бұрын

Ah! Donr watch our smart stat video what ever you do!

Thanks for another great video we found the slow heating method has worked well since installed tado smart radiator and boiler controls compared with normal 12 year old gas boiler on and off style and our gas bill dropped as well that was a shock

Excellent stuff. Really clear and well explained. Why don't more people just tell it like it is, calmly, without sensationalism and trying to sell us something!! BUT, What no search facility on the website? (thought I'd look up more about weather compensation versus room controls..)

@HeatGeek

2 жыл бұрын

thankyou! There's a search butting top right! www.heatgeek.com/?s=weather+compensation

When I had my radiant system and new boiler installed, my plumber explained that if he did his calculations correctly, during heating season, our boiler should run at some percentage of its capacity 24 hours a day. After 10 years, I have to say he got it right. The home had been more comfortable than I could have imagined. More insulation may have led to cycling and less efficiency. We’re dealing with a 150 year old home that we added insulation to while the heating system was being upgraded. Adding more insulation would have been a lot more expensive due to complications of reality. I think we found the balance point between paying for fuel and/or insulation. In the future, more insulation may be the better pay off. But that depends on the cost of labor to do it.

There are many variables including the evening cost for electricity. The main point is that hot objects lose heat energy faster than cool ones so simple thinking is cool is good. Here in N. Ontario I keep the night-time temp set at 15.5 C, day at 18 C and evening at 18.5 C. Our former inefficient gas furnace (air ducts) was still running well after 45 years of use. Our present gas-condensing furnace has functioned well for 15 years despite the morning chug. The true test is to experiment with different homes and heating systems comparing energy cost and equipment costs over the long haul.

live in a council house and our gas boiler, condensing, is controlled by a thermostat in the coldest part of the house and is on all the time heating as required

We live in a 4 bedroom semi and our heating is on 21 degrees, 24/7, 365 days of the year and our energy bills never raise with rebates every year. Our central heating is by a gas boiler, our loft is insulated as are our walls.

Very interesting and confirms my theory. I run the boiler for heating at 15 degrees for long periods. Up to 19 degrees when the frost or snow hits. The 21 degrees gave me the wtf. That's just too hot. Old solid walls in the house, no cavities here. Continual low heat and not walking around in shorts and t-shirts works great. Creating a comfortable constant climate and not a sauna is the way to go. Don't forget air the property regularly. Bad air also makes a house harder to heat. And I run a dehumidifier for long periods to deal with drying washing and kitchen condensation. Tumble dryers ruin clothes and cost silly amounts of money to use.

Really useful video , and all the others, thanks ! I'm wondering about an air source heat pump and concerned about noise pollution, is the noise reduced when running more gently trickling heat into the house rather than flat out for short periods of time. Or is the noise primarily the heatpump fan and would that be running at the same speed no matter what? Interested to hear if anyone has any experience of this.

You also have to consider that electric prices nowdays in Europe change extremely over the day, sometimes severeal 100 times. For exampel at night the kWh price can be 0,1 cent, but in the afternoon 50 cents, so if you have a Bill that charge per hour it can be alot cheaper to go with the on and off tactics, even if it consume more energy.

@AllanHundeboll

4 ай бұрын

Yes fluctuating electric prices is yet another variable that complicates the equation quite a bit

Brilliant video. I am now of the steady state mindset as I went to the 2 degree set back temperature routine a few years ago (17 degrees over night and 19 degrees during the day) and it did cost a little more, maybe 5-10% but the house is so much more comfortable and was advised that this was a much better way for my condensing boiler to run. Just for info I live in a large 1920’s house which isn’t very well insulated.

@HeatGeek

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you could do woth a weather compensator.. it should have not used much more gas really

@peterwilson3108

2 жыл бұрын

@@HeatGeek, thanks for the info, I’ll look into that 👍🏻

@Kangenpower7

Жыл бұрын

If you are finding it very expensive to heat your home this winter, you might consider a 12,000 to 18,000 Btu ductless heat pump, as that is the most energy efficient way to heat your home. And it will also provide low cost cooling in the summer if you want that too. Modern ductless units are almost silent, and they don't cost much to run.

I agree. I was recommended to have an on for daytime and off at night. Summer adjust the thermosat. For advanced digital systems set 2 temperature.

How should you factor this into heating your water? Currently my heatpump is running at a low flow temperature for heating but still only needs to be running a few hours a day to heat the property to temperature. However when it kicks in for water twice a day it'll output closer to 55c for 30mins.

Great vid, I understand the theory, i just can't work out what is optimal for me. -New build (2022) 3 bed semi. -Gas CH. -1 person in house Working From Home 90%> -2 zone (uppper and ground floor) system with Thermo radiators and 2x nest smart thermostats. Currently I: -Turn if all off/off during night, -manually turn on both zones in the morning for a quick 30 minute 'heat up' Then for remainder of day i leave upstairs (where office is) set to 18 (all radiator thermostats apart from office on 2, office on max chat) and ground floor turned off. This is *just* about cosy enough with a jumper on. Then i basically reverse the process in the evening with downstairs set to 19 and upstairs off. If i am at work or away at weekends (which I usually am) both zones default to eco (10°) ie off. Might i be better off leaving upper floor ar 16° overnight then 18° all day? I think my situation is fairly uncommon, and suspect it wont make a huge difference overall.. Welcome your thoughts.

Very informative and well presented.

what a well informed video I just changed my controls to TADO so looking to temper my home warmth while I am out working.. Thanks 😀😃😁

So so helpful, very well presented! 👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻

Great video. I have a four storey Georgian town house with an ancient gas boiler and traditional rads. Very expensive to run 😭

Thanks for trying to bring a bit of science to this. Really surprised that gas boilers are less efficient at high temperatures. Something further to consider about heat pumps. In the 3 coldest months the overnight temperature is very cold and a heat pump will be very inefficient. It makes sense to maximise the heat pump operation to the times of the day when the temperature is higher. If the house has photovoltaic then that needs to be considered as well. I think some geeky person needs to build models that takes all relevant factors into account (including the effect of outside temperature on efficiency). I might try it myself for heat pumps.

For heat pumps, if you have it, use the target room temperature (auto adaptation) mode. It is far superior to straight WC mode. Although it uses a WC curve in the background it also modulates as target room temperature is approached to maintain target room temperature using the lowest possible flow temperature required to maintain continuous operation. I have an 11.2kW Ecodan which was running for two years in Weather Compensation mode till Oct'23. Because it is a linear curve it never worked well because I always had to intervene once room temperature was reached by dialling down the curve by a few degrees to enable longer runs. Since the beginning of Oct'23 I switched to fully automatic (target room temp/auto adaptive) mode. After 3 months I'm amazed how much difference it has made - at least 15% better COP with like for like room/outside temps, and I have checked and double checked these results so many times now. The operation of the heat pump is so much better "managed", with more gentle startups (not so much initial power spiking), lower flow temps, longer run times, and better management of the effect of defrosting in really cold temps. You can clearly see in the app data how flow temps are modulated automatically as target room temp is approached and then maintained for the longest possible runs at the lowest flow temps. Best news is that I don't have to intervene at all now - I can just leave it to do its thing all the time.

One of the problems with condensing is that for it to happen their must be a tempreture differential of 10⁰c between the water tempeture going into the boiler and leaving the boiler .There are systems that use a 3 way port to circulate and bypass the boiler until the differential is seen .

@markwebb6741

Жыл бұрын

I don’t believe that’s true. The return temperature needs to be below 55C for it to condense. It’s not to do with the differential between flow and return.

1904 solid wall detached house. 32kW boiler. I'm trying this out. set every room to 16c and the boiler temp to 60c so far its ok. The house is very leaky. but I'm working on that.

Thanks for the video, now I'm more confused. I have radiators with condensing boiler in a semi detached house. We're home all day and have thermostat in one room. Do I heat intermittently or continuously? Maybe it's a good idea to put a little calculator on the website that gives the answers given the variables entered.

Hi, great video! It also depends on the local climate. For example in Greece some days even during winter, we may observe outside temperatures up to 20C during the day, when we may have 5-6 during night. So during these days and while we are out of the house, I prefer turning heating off and turn it back on on the afternoon, it keeps up really quick. You have a point about comfort, but I observed huge savings!

In view of the current situation, I have just been checking my settings, then watched your video. I am tempted to try lower temperatures for longer but it might be an expensive experiment. I have a 5year old Worcester Green Star 34 cdi, which is probably oversized. I'm not sure if it can be fitted with weather compensation, I'll have to find out. Thanks for all the information, really useful stuff.

@edinburghheating7414

Жыл бұрын

It depends on whether (weather?!) or not it's a CDi combi boiler or if it's a CDi system or heat-only boiler and you have a hot water cylinder. If you have a hot water cylinder, you can't have weather comp without adding further controls to ensure your cylinder is hot enough to kill off legionella, these additional controls are commonly known as hot water priority. I believe it's possible with WB boilers but not 100% sure.

Great in-depth video. One thing I don't think you mentioned which might have an impact is the heat-loss rate is also dictated by internal temperature. And this has a big knock on effect. All things being equal, a house at 18 degrees will lose more heat energy in 1 hour, than a house at 16 degrees, due to the increased temperature gradient. This means keeping your house at 18 overnight, instead of setting the set-back temp to like 15, and allowing the house to cool, will result in more heat energy being lost. Once a house drops under 18, it is losing energy at a slower rate. So the warmer house has lost more heat, and therefore will require more energy being put back in.

@JasperJanssen

Жыл бұрын

If it’s well insulated enough, the drop in temperature will be so slow that it barely matters. If it’s a drafty shithole like here, it drops 2-3 degrees in an hour or two and it definitely makes a difference. That’s the effect on consumption that’s good when switching temperatures. But if you have to heat it so quickly that your heat source becomes less efficient, or worse yet you have to set the temperature extra high to get it comfortable quickly when you get up, that’s some very negative effects.

@ich8159

Жыл бұрын

@@JasperJanssen That is exactly what I experienced. I moved from Germany from a well insulated house with central heating to Ireland into a poorly insulated house with electric heating and all the rules I followed all my life with keeping the heat on at a very low level etc. don’t apply anymore. Once I turn the heating off the room cools down almost immediately and the walls do not hold any heat at all. Turning the heat down or off over night isn’t an option as it takes me half a day to get the temperature back up.. which is bad as I am working from home. I am still not sure what to do. It is easier to maintain 21 Degrees in Germany at an outside temperature of minus 10 Degrees than it is to maintain 17 Degrees in Ireland at an outside temperature of 6 Degrees. I always feel cold here.

@jimmybrown3380

Жыл бұрын

@@ich8159 we like to live in Victorian times over here 😂

@ich8159

Жыл бұрын

@@jimmybrown3380 You don’t seem to feel the cold. I assume this is the result of conditioning from early childhood on. 😉😂

I have a 90 gal solar tank full of domestic water . I send the return boiler water to the coil in this tank and then on to the condensing boiler usually 80f . Hot water tap on , cold water goes into this tank then out to the indirect tank and then on to tap. Been doing this for 10 years.

Truly great advice, Thank you! Trying to get my head round this… I have recently had a Viessman 100-W Combi installed, the fitter only understood on/off controls and he made it very clear I was wasting my time when discussing load or weather compensation. The setup is in a Victorian semi, mostly radiators but has a one zone u-floor heating in the rear extension which has its own pump + 2 port zone valve. My question re weather comp is, if the system is on all the time does that mean the pump for the U-floor heating will need to be on permanently? If not where would this now get switched from? I assume this would no longer be the role of the thermostat. Many thanks in advance and keep the great advice coming!

@CrashUK28

2 жыл бұрын

on / off control are maybe right for weather compensation you need to select the right heating curve for your house. weather compensation work better for heat pump and I think for underfloor heating as well.

@jamestewkesbury6088

2 жыл бұрын

@@CrashUK28 Thanks for your response. For now I have modified the setup to Load compensation employing the Opentherm interface using a 2-zone Honeywell T6R solution. I will spend some time learning from this for now.. As you allude too, this solution may be a better for a (lossy) home with mostly radiators. Next step is to look at finely balanc the system 👍

What are your thoughts on turning down our (2) living room rad t/stats to 16C in the evening and using our 84% efficient cavity wall gas fireplace in the living room to solely heat that room as we only need it on for about 10 mins on high flame and then on low flame for 15 mins and then turn it off and the room stays very warm for quite a while. The walls are cavity insulated and we have about 300mm of loft insulation? Thanks

Wondering if you might do a video on this and similar systems. Dual electro-oil radiators connected to Smartlife WiFi plugs. Nighttime heating switches in at 22c and off at 22.9c. Daytime temperature to stay at 24c, with a lockout above 10c outside so the routine is switched off.. Reasons for temperatures is Fibromyalgia and multiple cancers.

Buildings rarely fall below 16C? I got up yesterday to find my sitting room temperature was 6.5C. That's in a semi-detached house built 20 years ago with added loft insulation and cavity insulation. During this cold snap in UK, to achieve even a constant 16C indoors I'd need the boiler running all day and night

Nine months later with the energy hike, I have noticed this. I leave two oil filled electric radiators on all day and night. I keep rooms we don't used closed. During the night they cost £1.30 and during the day the are costing £4.20. The rooms we use, Kitchen, Living Room, Bathroom and Bedroom are all toasty. Since doing this we are now over £1000.00 in credit with our energy supplier Octopus and I can prove this if you question me. We are asking for the money back as we now have our home regulated properly. Two electric Oil Rads on 24/7 and we are toasty. Both are set to 21c.. Where does the £1000.00+ credit come from? £305.00 a month for over a year when we spend on average over the summer and winter £4.00 a day. £305.00 a month is equiv to a budget of £10.00 a day. Some days We don't even reach £1.00.

This information is gold dust, am now running my baxi combi at 45-50° all day 6:30am - 8:30pm instead of having boiler on 3 times and set at 60-65°c, and the risk of being comfortable was unfortunately achieved. Set all trvs to 30 but control temp via boiler which is conveniently in the kitchen. So far in the last 3 weeks daily usage is down from about £9 to £6. This is a 1950’s detached bungalow. So big thanks Adam, maybe ASHP in the not to distant future.

I normally just turn on the heat pump on when I need it. I tried doing different things and checked the usage and the startup goes very high. But drops after 30min 70%. But I also have very good insulation. I also try to time heating with solar.

Another informative video, and very thankful you do these. I wish you were my local gas man, Trying to get any sensible information out of the gas man is like blood from a stone. I am in rented, and a combi boiler, Vaillant eco Tec plus, and installed in January 2009, gas central heating, individual thermostat's on each radiator, home all day , (I am an old fart now, apparently LOL) and trying to work out the cheapest and most efficient way to run my heating, I have given up asking for info on how to use it, Utube helped there, and all I got from the gas guy was, keep the radiators on the highest heat, and control it from the boiler! Same with the water. If you do have any advice that you can share with my system, I would appreciate it, as I am not sure if that is the most affordable way at the moment with rising costs. Many thanks for your time, making these video's.

With smart zone control (smart thermostate/valve per room wirelessly connected to central controller), like Evohome, you can decide the heating strategy per room dependant of its usage and heating source. Like setting the room and kitchen, with floor heating, to a more constant temperature (we are at home all day) and changing the temperature of the other rooms (sleeping rooms, study, bath room, etc.) with radiators according to their respective usage. All of this with an as low as possible max. water temperature of the condensing boiler (we use 50 gr C).

I´m liking this channel. well done guys. do you have anyone in Barcelona? I have a Masia and am planning on putting air-water for underfloor and also air-air. also a big huge log fire integrated. I know very little, and maybe am being too ambitious, but your channel gives me confidence

So...we will get a heat pump soon (whenever it is back in stock...) and I have done quite a lot of research already. Our current condensing gas boiler is set to run steady state at low temperature since we have solid and well insulated building and underfloor heating. Now, with the heat pump I was planning to do the same, the only thing I am bot entirely sure about is the fact, that it's usually colder at night which would potentially make the heat pump less efficient during those hours. The more important question for me though is, what to do about hot water. We will have a 200l water tank for our hot water. Currently we have a slightly bigger one with our gas boiler and it is set to hold the water temperature steady at 60°C during the day. Now with the heat pump this will be lowered to 50°C, but the question is...does it make sense to keep the temperature steady during the course of the day (we usually don't actually use much hot water, so it would just be compensating for thermal losses) or is it more efficient to heat the water up at a certain time (say midday) and then let it get used up and/or cooled down over the next 24 hours at which point it is then heated back up?

I might have made a comment here in the past, but here's further thoughts on the general subject. I used to have coal/wood central heating (NW Scotland, no mains gas, and oil or LPG options eitehr too expensive to consider, or impossible because of distance from the road, approx 50 metres) which came with the house when I moved here 5 years ago. I loved the heat, but disliked the high cost of fuels, and in the end couldn't take the hefting of about 3 toones of coal from a one tonne pallet to the back of my house every year! In steps the Scottish Gov. scheme to replace old and extremely high carbon emmitting systems like mine with ASHP wet/central heating. There was no other choice, and I received it FREE in the end as I was/am on various health-related benefits. Such as the inability to keep warm when static (and the situation where I am boiling when I actually DO anything, but extreme fatigue problems connected with that, and it isn't reasonable to do press-ups all day, or run up and down the stairs just to keep warm!), and simply putting on more clothes doesn't work either, as I my autonomic systems don't work properly... All this is to explain why I have to keep my house at 23 - yes, 23! - degrees all day. I have tried, obviously, 21 or 22 C, but I am just too cold, and this affects all aspects of my health. So 23 it is, and a set back of 21 at night. I do this, so far, on a max flow temperature of 40 degrees. I was going to 19 C set back originally, but it was taking SO long to get the house temp back up that I was staying in bed till lunchtime. This is my first winter with this new system. It was turning in a COP of barely 2.5 in Sept and Oct and early Nov, but since the day/night temps have been nearer 2 -4 C and minus 2 C, the COP is only just 2. This is obviously far better then the not-quite 1:1 of storage rads, and my house is toasty. I have an Arotherm (NOT plus, I have tried to find out the difference, but so far to no avail. Maybe the non-plus Arotherm is simply the previous version, and just isn't so efficient? And are 'old stock' which was going cheap(er) than the Aro-plus??) heat pump, either the 8 kW, or the next one up (poss. 11 kW. Please, how do I find out which? They are the same physical dimensions, so it is either, but I can't find any markings to tell me which). Reading the stats it is clear that an over-spec-ed heat pump actually uses more power than a correctly sized unit. Whatever I do with flow temp and heat curves etc I can't get better than a COP of 2 in the current wintry weather (around minus 2 night time, and maybe 2 or 4 C daytime. I am on the coast, and temps rarely vary much day/night in the winter, the sea being the biggest influencing factor, but at least it rarely gets to the minus 10-15 C many inland locations get for quite some months in winter). Is a COP of 2 acceptable? A COP of 2.5 in October, and overall power consumption of around 10 kW per 24 hrs, was, I feel, not too bad. 20 kW a day now, in weathher that is almost never worse, is still acceptable given my annual power consumption calculations. In any case, the cost of wood and coal used to be £2,500 +/- annually, and if the annual coast of my heat pump is similar (based on my unit cost of 32p per kWh), although it sounds high, realise that the cost of coal and wood have both increased by more than 50%, as much as 75%, since I last had to buy any, so I might have had to shell out FOUR THOUSAND SPONS A YEAR! over the coming 12 months!!! £2.5K a year for lecky and a very toasty house, plus - or rather minus - shifting tonnes of coal and wood every year, and ashes to take out daily, super-hard on arthritic joints and chronic fatigue, will not be missed for one minute! The winters are long here, and no one's fuel bills are anything like as low as in the softer south. It is not necessarily colder mid-winter, but the winters are simply longer. Even in summer I need some heat on cooler evenings sometimes. Daytime temps rarely hit low-mid-20s C in summer, and houses here just don't suck up much solar radiant heat (especially those with external insulation, a bad move up here as it actually PREVENTS such solar gains. Really). My 42 year old house has concrete block/50 mm - now insulated - cavity walls, with 75 mm internal stud filled with mineral wool insulation, and plasterboard finish. That's where houses in cooler parts of the world need it, not outside. I AM SO SORRY for waffling on so, as most of you won't have got this far! However, for any of you who have, any suggestions how I might reduce my winter power consumption with my wet ASHP system (huge emmiter sizes btw, so low flow temps are fine)? Arotherm NOT plus, poss 8, maybe 11 kW. Thank you just in case anyone has any suggestions other than shut the f--k up, blabbermouth!

Very nica comparison between main heating methods. Thank you! 👍

The temp out side over the last week hasn't got over freezing! If I set the night time setting to 17 it would never go off!

I turn the living room (not in the hall) thermostat down to 19 at night - condensing gas boiler - it rarely kicks in, except in the middle of the winter. Once we get up, we turn it up a degree at a time, to 20, later to 21, and even later to 22 - we never turn it off. If we go out for the evening we turn it down a degree, and turn it back up when we come in.

Brilliant even for heating engineers 👍