your Comparison of the DDC and d5 Pump is a tad broken. the DDC is a Floating Impeller with heat from the coils being removed outside the casing of the pump the DDC operates at a Higher RPM with a smaller Impeller. its flow is Lower but its pressure is Higher. the DDC because of this high RPM is louder but smaller and also is prone to overheating the D5 is ALSO a floating impeller pump but the heat output from its coils is displaced into the water by means of a Stainless steel housing. this means the Fluid removes heat from the pump and the pump does not have to worry about overheating coils. the D5 is a higher wattage 40w vs 18w and has a larger but slower moving impeller. this means more flow but less torque and less noise both Pumps Operate on the same Principles of Maglev and as such don't really "wear out" from use as the only moving part is an Impeller that sits in water./coolant. the Biggest weakness is Solid coolants gelling or Particulates causing corrosion of the internal body (DDC's also can overheat)

@ChielScape

2 жыл бұрын

Came here to post this. Also DDC overheating is dependent on the version. The DDC is available, although this often isn't marked, in 3 versions. These are internally called the 3.1, the 3.2 and the 3.25. The 3.1 is a low power version, with the others being more powerful. The 3.25 is a somewhat overdriven 3.2, and has the most risk of overheating. If there are any non-Laing manufactured copies floating around out there, I don't know of any specifics, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were. The swiftech, koolance, etc ones, to the best of my knowledge, are rebranded Laing units but correct me if I'm wrong. Finally, the top covers available for both the D5 and DDC pumps can greatly change their stock characteristics, by trading flow for pressure or vice versa. Some covers offer more of both (read: are more efficient/have fewer internal losses) than others. Some D5/top combos offer more pressure than some DDC combos, and vice versa. As for flow in an actual system, this is a factor of both free-flow and pressure, and I personally prefer higher pressure pumps over high free-flow ones, especially with the high restriction "accelerator" type waterblocks. If you want to have your cake and eat it too, there are double pump tops, that take two pump units in a single housing. In this case, the additional pressure is overkill for the DDC without extra flow rate, and the double D5 actually wins out in my personal opinion. Neither is necessary to have an effective cooling system unless you cool every single component including chipsets, VRMs, drives, RAM, multiple GPUs, etc.

Just built a SFF, watercooled PC. Too fun. A little scary disassembling a 3090 to put a water block on it, but otherwise a ton of fun! All soft tubing, all black, no window because who wants to see this disaster? I love this PC.

Some people have emotional support alligators, others have emotional support liquid cooling loops. Whatever works for you!

I'd love to see a 64 core epyc sff build.

I have had an EK FLT 80 DDC in my NR200 for almost a year . Initially everything was looking good but after 11 months when took my system down for yearly maintenance i found micro cracks all around the ports incl those that were never used so i am pretty sure this is not user error ( used port were carefully tighten by hand anyways ). Very disapointed , thankfully i was well within warranty period but that's definitely something for people to look out . I would avoid acrylic ports at all cost , especially those from EKWB ( Alphacool reps claim their acrylic is stronger but yeah don't have personal experience with them in order to judge). Thankfully companies like IceMan make acetal pump/res for SFF and Alphacool has come up with some new distro plates with metal reinforced ports so there is hope they will implement something like this in their Rise Flat DDC/D5 resevoirs in the near future and hopefully it becomes a standard for all manufacturers.

Soft tubing ftw! Been huge fan of the Tygon norprene for years, great for all around use and it's always pretty clean unlike the zmt stuff, also pretty robust.. Did a couple of hard lined systems back in the day but I got bored of it, also too much of a hassle so I switched back to norprene with qdcs. It does take more adapters/extensions to make it look "good" (if you have ocd and you want everything to line up like me lol) but the end result is great and you can switch out any part with ease. EK does an even smaller FLT Wendel, the FLT 80 for both D5s and DDCs, might help ya more regarding spacing.

You guys have been knocking it out of the park with the build and gaming centric videos! Thanks for all the great content.

Swift tech makes their Apogee drive ii, which is a CPU block that has a mount for a DDC pump. Works pretty well. Alphacool makes a small pump block combo called the Eisbar LT but that has their LT pump in it, and it's a bit weaker. It's only really intended for a DIY AIO style CPU cooler. You can upgrade the pump to their higher powered one that will do the job for a GPU as well. Those all save a ton of space.

Can we get a series on 3D printing?

Thanks for all the info. I really like these kinds of reviews..

My issue was always having enough quick disconnects to complete the loop. As much as I plan, things change, and I end up short on something. Glad I'm not trying to do a custom loop for now.

Would love to see an updated version of this video, simply fantastic content!

I've been planning a SFF threadripper for a while now and the biggest downside to mini-itx is that you only get 2 RAM slots. Doing it in micro-atx is way more preferred but getting a case that keeps the footprint small is tricky.

@Fay7666

2 жыл бұрын

There's no ITX Threadripper (that I know of), there's an Epyc board that's a bit wider than ITX. I think something like that may have 4 slots, can't see how they fit 8 tho. I think Skylake Xeon ITX had 4 SODIMM and there was supposedly a version that could have 6 slots (no M.2 tho), and the X299 definitely had the max 4 SODIMM as well.

@NickByers-og9cx

2 жыл бұрын

@@Fay7666 I may have been thinking of the EPYC boards, I thought first or second gen threadripper had a mini-itx, looks as though I was mistaken. At any rate who would want to waste all those PCIE lanes

@Dylan-xc8yz

2 жыл бұрын

@@NickByers-og9cx especially with thread ripper, it may just be the need for high speed, high core count systems in a smaller footprint... A rare use case, for sure, but definitely still valid

I remember using car parts and stuff from the hardware store to water-cool CPUs in the early 2000s... We've come so far.

This is pretty amazing, it would most likely also be my go-to if i ever did SFF. Still rocking my corsair 400C case and loving exceptional temps from my Raijintek Morpheus2 gpu cooler though. But this is just great!

Super fun video, and sweet beats

Thanks!

@Slobrewer

2 жыл бұрын

Wendell having an existential moment in the middle of an SFF build is exactly why I love L1 techs

I love my NZXT H1 because it doesn't take a lot of desk space. One thing I didn't take into account is how much a case fan is really needed. Since it doesn't have an exhaust fan on the case the heat just builds up in it, like real bad. Set up a USB fan that sits next to the case and it makes a huge difference getting even a little bit of air moving through.

I like the new intro/background music!

For my last build I went with a meshify mini C and it's just the right size of case for me. Any smaller and I think it would be too much of a hassle to work on. Which reminds me, my computer has been crashing with page fault errors and I need to figure out why. it only happens when watching youtube and doing other stuff like gaming and I'm pretty sure it's my ram. The corsair sticks I have in there don't seem to work at any where near capacity when I try to use their XMP profile and manual tuning just resulted in instability. It could be that my motherboard is just kind of old, I bought an older b450 tomahawk to save money when I built the machine and flashed the bios to work with the newer 3600x Ryzen cpu I bought. My corsair sticks were on the compatibility list when I bought them but who knows what jank I've introduced with the flashed bios! Fun times!

@bdbgh

2 жыл бұрын

I had a stick of corsair lpx that caused a lot of errors and crashes recently, I ran memtest86 individually on every ram stick that I had and one of the sticks failed a lot of tests on a 6 hour run with the XMP profile turned on (3600 cl18) while the others was fine. If you have the purchase receipts, supposedly you can try and claim warranty if you submit the operating system error logs, corsair does not accept memtest results as a valid reason to claim warranty from what I've read. Hope that helps.

I have a black NR200 with the iceman pump/res mounted with dual 240mm radiators. It cools my 5900x / 3080 system amazingly

Wendell in full retail therapy mode

For sff builds I usually use one of those pump/block combos you showed but with no reservoir. I just use QDC fittings and a spare d5+reservoir externally to bleed all the air out. EK's slim rads really suck though. There is no reason to go with them ever. The bitspower FE blocks suck too. The finstack is rotated 45 degrees and doesn't even cover the whole die.

Back in the day I was given a r9-290x lightning and I built my first SFF PC. I just cut a slot in the side of the case for the edge of the waterblock to fit in there. Later, when I got a smaller GPU I put a piece of tape over the hole.

hit the nail in the coffin w/ falling into the blackhole. thinking about building my own sff computer, and this video just affirmed that i am willfully insane. instantly subbed!

I left soft tubing because I got tired of cleaning plasticizer out of my blocks. Hard tubing is more work in setup and harder to change pieces but less cleaning. I recently used Tygon tubing for a friend's build. If it works as advertised I will probably go with that for my next build.

ducts that feed the exhausts directly into a window AC unit

@cheesefries7436

2 жыл бұрын

You want a PC intake that takes air directly FROM a window AC unit.

@pyroromancer

2 жыл бұрын

@@cheesefries7436 no that's absurd who knows what gung flies directly out of an ac unit and thats just plain overkill.

I bought tons of 16/10 tubing and Koolance QDC fittings. Lots of space in a big case and many 560 and 480 rads.

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

Not sure why you bought all that, you cooling a car or motorbike or something? One 480 rad is more than enough to cool a 5950X and a 3090 and still have head room to spare. Also those Koolance QDC's do restrict flow, ALL QDC's do... I've been running their QDC3's (10mmID) for like 6years, never build a loop with out them, their flow rate is better than the EK, Swifttech etc ones.

Sat here designing a bracket to mount my pump/res in a sff case while I listen to this. My first custom loop and I'm learning a lot. Can definitely recommend this kind of project.

Very interesting video! Liquids and electronic scare the hell out of me though. Was your 3090 overclocked?

Crazy fun, do more ITX stuff! :D

ITX is definitely 21st century ship in a bottle building.

Maybe a building a ship in a reservoir in a water cooled mini ITX build would be the hardest….

I'm keen to build a small form factor workstation (AMD X570 based), but the problem for me is the 64GB limit on RAM. I use large orchestral sample libraries to write music and find 128GB, as in my old computer, is enough to do the job. I'm not aware of an ITX board that supports 128GB. Shame.

In the quick release system video clip I do not see any quick release

I love the Music! It reminds me of WobbleDogs.

i strongly agree with the "fitting is a whole new level of insane" XD always have more fittings than u think u'll need... i'm slowly moving my sys from o11d to 5000d with dual d5 in serial -_-

Laptop water cooling recommendations?

When it comes to sff builds I like to go with hwlabs radiators due to the fin density or xspc tx rads because they're only 20mm thick

I'll stick with my NH-D15, mainly because it's not a stupid price like $629.99.

will epyc milan work on wrx80 ie. M12SWA-TF

You mentioned having two pumps in the same loop and for a concept I've wanted to do that'd be useful. Would both pumps need to be on the same Mobo header is my only question about it.

@Level1Techs

2 жыл бұрын

Nope no need

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

You will want to check both the headers supply ratings vs what you're plugging into them. 'Most' motherboards only come with one fan header capable of delivering more than 1Amp, eg intended for possibility of a pump. Also IF your motherboard does have two headers capable of the required supply power, you will want to synchronise them, eg when refenced component is @40°C both headers output 70%, @50°C 85%, @60°C 100%. (numbers/percentages are examples only) Otherwise if out of sync one pump may hinder then performance of the other pump or one be 'starved' of supply etc.

@heimvar

2 жыл бұрын

@@Syraxal I knew most of that lolol I was just curious about syncing it but I didn't even think about just matching their heat response curves. Good looking man

@heimvar

2 жыл бұрын

@@Syraxal I'm the same way when explaining things I don't even stop to think what the person may already understand 😂😂😂

@heimvar

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not saying lol out of rudeness or anything it just genuinely made me laugh because I feel you mate

RIP to the Ncase M1. They stopped selling it just a few days after this video's publishing.

Nice. I am looking forward to build a new System with B550 x Ryzen 5800x and Watercooling. THX

where can i buy one already made!

I built a retro case PC, it’s ridiculously hard to have it somewhat quiet without watercooling.

I’ve Level1 up’d after watching this. You know, the really puzzling thing is why radiators are put inside the case. They should be on the outside to remove the heat better. Case manufacturers could come up with something to allow this.

If you go with dual pumps, do they run parallel or in series?

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

You can do either. Either run them in series for increased loop pressure (head pressure) done if you have a load of restrictive items, eg. 90deg bends, low flow waterblocks etc. Or split the loop, but that requires a replication ie. Loop1 Pump +Res, Radiator CPU block Loop2 Pump +Res Radiator GPU block.

I bought the z690 version would love to see the review and a SFF build with it because thats my goal with a 12900k

Is it still a SFF build when you are mounting a bunch of stuff to the exterior of the case?

19:56 Did someone whisper about Epyc water blocks and iTX boards to you?!

Be aware, going water is addictive. I recently went water on my system and now I don't know if I want a system without it now.

How common is the delayed start issue with these DDC pumps? I read about it and bought one anyway. Less than a year later the pump might take up to 5 minutes to start spinning from cold start!

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

That is not a problem with the pump. It sounds like you've plugged the pump into a motherboard fan header and then incorrectly set the fan profile in your Bios. I suggested you chnage the profile in the bios to be something like 80% @ zero degrees. That will ensure that the pump spins up as soon as the power on button is pressed.

@herpderp2736

2 жыл бұрын

@@Syraxal It's plugged straight to molex. Non pwm DDC310, with 3pin to mobo for rpm readings.

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

@@herpderp2736 Well your's is the first I've heard of doing this, I've had 3 different DDC pumps one 3.1, a 3.25 (EK-DDC 3.25), and a 4.2 (EK-DDC-3.2TPPWM4) the last two are still in two of my systems. Currently in my main system is the EK-XTOP DDC 4.2 PWM Elite which is (was) the same 4-Pin Molex and 3-Pin DC FAN connector that you've got, they all have started as soon as the power button is hit and have never had a 'delayed start'. I've always made sure to buy rebranded Xylem pumps though not knock-offs (Xylem were the DDC, D5, Flygt, and other pump designers/OEM) The reason I said 'was' for the 4.2 is that I cut the connectors off and re-done them with a 4pin header connector so I could plug it directly into my motherboard and even in there it starts right away. I can't really comment further on your particular issue since I've never seen it myself. The only thing I would say is maybe grab a multimeter and put the probes into another Molex connector (on the same daisy chain as the pump) put it to VDC and see if the PSU supplies power on that rail as soon as it's turned on. The pumps circuit board is nothing special, apply Voltage/Current, makes artificial electromagnetic field, the rotor spins... There's nothing that should make it 'delay'. Have you pulled the DDC apart and taken a look inside? I had a D5 come from EK with a strand of steel wire inside the metal rotor chamber, I put the whole loop together and turned it on and the pump made a horrible noise, so I now take apart all my loop components and inspect for defects before assembly.

SFF is neat but a pain to do

I’m currently in the process of shoving Ryzen 16 cores/64 GB,RTX 4090 with dual ddc pumps / triple rads & P28 fans in the NR200.

What are your thoughts on CPU Block + Pump combo units as oppose to a dedicated external pump ?

@duckrutt

2 жыл бұрын

Should be fine, it's now (most) of the CLC guys do it. Heck if you're fine with keeping your GPU on air a CLC is way easier. Kinda. Routing fixed length tubing can be entertaining.

I thought we were gonna see Wendel actually build a custom loop... bummer.

Im in Asia, how good is Bykski?

19:55 There's an ITX Epyc board?

@theoriginalstove6675

2 жыл бұрын

I think ASRock Rack announced/came out with one for the 7002 series Epyc processors.

@eden1925

2 жыл бұрын

@@theoriginalstove6675 Oh, yeah. LTT even made a video on that.

@theoriginalstove6675

2 жыл бұрын

@@eden1925 I now have a video to go watch lol. I only ran into this while randomly looking up cheap used epyc cpus then seeing if there were cheap motherboards too.

If you can get a hold of an Asus or gigabyte RTX3080 Turbo to blow all that hot air out the back and run the 280 as CPU only.

dat music with an incomplete "the lick" doe..

Links to the parts would be helpful

Are there any 6800XT blocks that aren't huge? Seems none of them would fit in the NCASE.

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

What black magic is this " 5800XT " must have been an AMD release I missed?

Someone has been watching Optimum Tech KEKW

$1000 ?? No way... I keep my aircooler

That external res is so cool!

Why the vid so choppy? Or is it just my phone?

where is Ali from Optimum Tech? pretty sure he would love to watch this video lol

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

He'd point out a few places where the info was wrong though...

There is ALSO the issue of materials/metals. You cannot mix metals. You cause failures, gunk build up, all kinds of issues. Which people don't realize. EVEN IN THE CAR WORLD we know you cannot mix metals in cooling systems.... Today's computer builders will cry "liquid cooling sucks, you have to keep cleaning it out and refilling it" no not really. You should only have to refill it. And the only reason custom loops need to be refilled is because its not perfectly sealed like an AIO. A perfectly healthy AIO will never leak and never stop working. If the tubes are leaking, the material used might have been bad from manufacturer and they didn't know it. I have the old Antec Kuhler 920 and it STILL WORKS to this day. That thing launched in 2011!!! IT STILL WORKS. Now some might argue "yeah, it might work, but does it still cool the same amount" yes, for a single 120mm liquid cooler, it still performs like a 120mm liquid cooler. Then you have my NZXT X60 Kraken which is a 240mm AIO. I am talking about the OG kraken. When it first came out If my memory is right was in 2013. Again, super old I mean its freaking 2021..... IT STILL WORKS. I ended up shipping it to my friend along with my old 9590 with motherboard and memory and he is using it, guess what, IT STILL WORKS. He hasn't noticed any change in cooling performance. When you take care of your shit, it lasts. This idea that stuff fails, well either you were extremely unlucky or YOU caused the issue. I have seen people bend tubes and abuse their liquid cooler and wonder why the tubes cracked and started leaking.... People are super abusive and pretend like abuse doesn't break things. Even in relationship, abuse breaks the relationship.... but for some reason they think abusing their technology, wont break them.... insanity.

Optimum tech is the go to for this. It I love to see level ones take!

We choose to build a dual rad system in the Ncase M1 and overclock it to hell, not because it's easy, but because it's hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our PC building and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to do, no matter the cost in fittings.

that pump is sick _engagement_

JEESUS CHRIST, I think im going insane from hearing "The Lick" every couple of seconds. I really want to enjoy the video but this is driving me nuts xD

Wait... pets require feeding..? I'll be right back.

The times when the water cooling cost more than the computer it's going to cool. :-)

@xephael3485

2 жыл бұрын

No kidding... put it in a cooled closet if you need to get rid of noise.

Someone please reverse the engineering process and please build the computer within the cooling tower

"..$200 GPU block is alot..." while 3090 FE with active backplate...~$600

Why can't you get truly upgradable AIO PC/monitor setups? The all in one PCs are usually cheap and nasty - surely they can design a plug and play base system? Water blocked GPUs with snaplock fittings are straight forward; A 27" monitor and stand is of sufficient size to house/ hide even an ATX sized motherboard.

Would appreciate if Wendell would do a video comparison of both KDE & Gnome (pro's & cons) with their latest iterations. Many non-Linux folks seem to assume that Linux is just Ubuntu and don't even know the difference between DE's.

I got an RTX 3080 FE with Corsairs Block and, ye, same dimensions as like a GTX 1050 with a single fan but also just 1 Slot. Memory still permanently at 85°C but hey, me gotta need to pay of the card somehow

thanks for using normal units btw

Hard line water cooling is quite over rated to be honest, making your machine extremely inconvenient just to add a bit of looks does not attract me in the least...

Small form factor builds are addicting be warned.

Why can't PC hardware manufacturers make things less ugly? Why do they hate us?

Cheese

Price on water cooling crap is too expensive... spend it on better hardware instead.

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

But what happens when you've already got the 'best hardware' you can get for ITX?

@xephael3485

2 жыл бұрын

@@Syraxal going ITX is also mistake.. put it all in big servers in a cooled closet and run video cable

@Syraxal

2 жыл бұрын

​@@xephael3485 I have a rack, I also had a Thermaltake Core X9 case which is bigger than an 18RU rack, had 3x 480 Ek XTX Rads, more Noctua Industrial fans than sense, and one hell of a bejesus Overclocked CPU and SLI GPUs, why you might ask, because I was young and still inexperienced in open-loop water cooling. Now just like @Level1Techs is showing I actually have a Ncase M1 with the Asus ROG Impact VIII in it, a Ryzen 5900X, 3090 with a dual radiator open loop using that Bitski CPU, Res/Pump combo block, why you might ask, because I am now old and wise in the ways of open-loop water cooling (also I want a powerhouse PC that I just thrown into my custom Pelican case and take everywhere with me). So my friend ITX is not a mistake, it's the future, for me anyway...

SFF is complete BS