For those wondering wtf they’re talking about, it’s 2:07

I imagine that if ahbez's settlement is an admission of anything, it's that he was not attached to wealth accumulation and saw legal battles as a waste of precious time.

@laurielynn8288

2 жыл бұрын

This.

@tanertumkaya3369

5 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/p4hrqcWjctG9kdo.html

It's a musical phrase with only a very brief similarity and it quickly resolves itself in an entirely different direction. Like many here, I believe either could have taken it from Dvorak, though ahbez (composer of Nature Boy) would have been highly unlikely to have ever heard Yablokoff's song given that in the mid 1930's he was living in Kansas City. I don't think Yablokoff would get anything today when you have to prove some connection in which the person being sued would have heard and used a melody. It's not a case of George Harrison and "He's So Fine", which he did have to settle even though it was for him, not consciously copied. In this case "Hush My Heart" was not a famous song. Dvorak almost never took melodies from Czech folk music, not even in the Slavonic Dances or Legends. He preferred to write his own. The Dvorak is the Piano Quintet #2 Op.81 and the melody begins the Second Movement (Dumka/Andante) it's one of the most famous chamber music works and there are multiple versions on KZread.

The similarity seems to be limited to a simple phrase around a minor triad. The brilliance of "Nature Boy" is in the turn of the phrase that follows and the haunting harmonies that accompany it. I wonder if this plagiarism charge would stand up in a modern court.

@boinx1234

5 жыл бұрын

I agree. The thing that makes Nature Boy so great is the chord on “very far” - that’s completely missing here.

@cccasss

4 жыл бұрын

They settled out of court

@Zigblat

3 жыл бұрын

It's very similar, almost identical. ahbez phoned the writer and told him he heard the melody as if angels were singing it in the California hills and offered $10,000 to withdraw the suit. The writer wanted him to admit it was stolen. Later, they settled for $25,000.

@paulwhetstone0473

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think the case would hold up in todays court and I don’t think it would have held up in 1948 either. After all, Ahbez and Yablokoff settled out of court.

@paulwhetstone0473

2 жыл бұрын

@@boinx1234 I totally agree.

Well, the Dvorak was famous enough at that time that both ahbez and Yablokoff might have lifted the melody, even unconsciously. But ahbez's settlement could be considered an admission of guilt with respect to Yablokoff? "Nature Boy" is a brilliant, one of a kind masterpiece anyway, as is Dvorak's quintet. This song however is completely forgettable...

@michaelgarza8271

2 жыл бұрын

I think Ahbez's Nature Boy is so much more powerful than its origins if Ahbez's was inspired by this or Dvorak's piano quintet.

@paulwhetstone0473

2 жыл бұрын

I totally concur.

@barbarazurek4648

2 жыл бұрын

I can't. I like Nature Boy more, but I'd never say this is forgettable! This song is tearing my heart apart as I see it a song about Jewish people losing there homes, their friends and families due to IIWW and wandering far away having noone who understands. To proud to look for pitty crying inside. Nature Boy text has nothing in common.

@boswell255

2 жыл бұрын

@@barbarazurek4648 This was written in 1935, 4 years prior to WW2, and is about a boy from Russia, not Germany. It doesn't mention anything about anyone losing their homes. It does mention him being persecuted, which could be the reason for his depression, though it doesn't mention him being Jewish ( I mean it's a yiddish song by a Russian Jewish immigrant, so it probably is autobiographical.) The main crux of the song though is about fighting with yourself to keep your emotions hidden despite desperately wanting not to. The source of that depression is just set dressing. It's a good song and you're allowed to like them both without pitting them against each other.

Well I'm not surprised he sued eben, but there is hardly any plagiarism here.

It's a stretch to say he "stole" the song from him based on one phrase which slightly sounds the same but resolves a different way That would be like suing over any story that began "Once Upon A Time..."

@tanertumkaya3369

5 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/p4hrqcWjctG9kdo.html

Yikes... That singer needs more practice. lol "Nature Boy" brought me here. I think it was pretty ballsy for Yablokoff to sue. smh I wonder if that lawsuit would have been successful today.

@2degucitas

3 жыл бұрын

I can't listen to the whole thing, it hurts my ears!

@foljs5858

Ай бұрын

"Yikes... That singer needs more practice. lol" In what universe?

2:25 to 2:35 is the only portion that resembles AHBEZ'S work. I too would be interested in knowing if this case would have stood up to today's legal and technical standards for plagiarism. But if I were on a jury that had to decide by listen Yablokoff wouldn't have gotten a cent. The phrase in Nature Boy actually has a cadence (which is the sweet spot and selling point of Nature Boy) where the brief similar phrase in Yablokoff's work does not resolve but meanders on. As far as I'm concerned, Yablokoff got away with theft.

No way the writer of Nature Boy should've given a penny to this guy.

Yeah, I hear the parts that are similar to the melody of Nature Boy. The question is whether Ahbez actually went to the Yiddish theater when he was in NYC as a boy, since that is seemingly the only place he could have heard this song. It's not like Yiddish songs were big on the radio back then, were they? I haven't listened to the Dvorak to hear if that has a similar melody, but if it does, then that is more than likely where Ahbez heard it.

@howardherrnstadt7367

5 жыл бұрын

There was a radio station, at least one, that had Yiddish programming, in NYC. When I was a kid, in the 1950s, my grandmother was a regular listener. So I think it's very possible that the song was heard on the radio. And maybe even sung on the street by street singers singing for coins or played through loudspeakers onto the street from a record store or store selling Jewish items such as records, books, talisim (?), torahs, etc.

@karenbracey5834

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, the melody in the second movement ("Dumka" at 13:31) of Antonin Dvorak’s 1887 “Piano Quintet No. 2” is the same as that in abhez's "Nature Boy" and Yablokov's "Hush, My Heart." That said, it's incredible haunting to me, as are the lyrics of "Nature Boy."

@brianchidester3334

4 жыл бұрын

@@howardherrnstadt7367 It would've had to've been on radio that Eden heard the song as Yablokoff never recorded it in his lifetime and neither did any other artist as far as I can tell. Interestingly, however, Eden integrates one line of Yablokoff's "Papirosn" into an unrecorded song he wrote in 1962 titled "A Boy and a Melody." That pretty much confirms for me that he heard the 1935 Yablokoff theater play which contains both songs.

@howardherrnstadt7367

4 жыл бұрын

Is there a radio history person knows if Yiddish theater productions were broadcast in NYC?

@howardherrnstadt7367

4 жыл бұрын

I just sent an inquiry to Murray Horwitz, who broadcasts a weekly old time radio show on WAMU in DC.

Skip to 3:16 I think it's similar, but ENDS differently, and Nature Boy has additions not present here.

Did Yablokoff have to pay to Dvorak relatives? Cause if he wanted to get paid for a couple of notes he felt eden robbed him then he robbed Dvorak before. What a greedy opportunist.

Not very similar. There was no reason for eden to give in. But he didn't care that much about the money so no problem

I was expecting the tune to be similar too. I still love Nat’s singing of Nature Boy

2:25 ist wirklich sehr ident mit Nature Boy....

Yeah I don't think so. I can hear the part in question but it's not similar enough to allege plagiarism.

Well . . .The body of the song had a couple of Bits in it from Bizet's Carmen. (Habanera)

Ok, now I know it's not plagiarism. Might've been an inspiration, but no more than that.

There’s a very slight similarity but if I’d written “Nature Boy” and this guy came griping that I’d “stolen” his song I’d have told him to go take a running jump in the Nile, and don’t come up for air! The amount of so called “plagiarism” that’s been conceded in courts by people who don’t have a clue about music and it’s history, is remarkable. Like George Harrison and “My Sweet Lord” for instance. They’ve recently tried it on with Led Zeppelin and “Stairway To Heaven” but thankfully that’s been thrown out. Maybe the songwriters are finally getting wise to this scam.

@cedricliggins7528

Жыл бұрын

2:16

2:06 - I do hear the similarity, especially with the phrasing rather than the exact notation. I agree that there was some influence but is that enough for a plagiarism law case?

2:06 he definitely used that melody as a template for nature boy

Hang on, my goldfish wrote this in a previous incarnation as a wombat.

Fascinating, thank you

I suggest you also the Film“ untamed hearts“, i think you all will like it. ( they use this Musik, nature Boy and a wonderfull Story)

2:06 its very similar indeed

Edith Bunker lives again!

Definitely a 'lift' on the melody phrasing, clearly from 2'06 as Schlimm Shady links below. But a great lyric by Ahbez nonetheless..

Whether or not eden ahbez ever heard this song or not, let alone was in some way inspired by it to write his own song, is irrelevant. There is, at most, only a vague and very fleeting and superficial similarity between certain moments of both songs, which if it weren't for the lawsuit, no one else would have ever noticed. There are lots of songs especially in 50s rock and rockabilly, and 60s through 80s country, that have VASTLY more similarity than this to each other. And yet, to the fans, each song stands on its own, and will (and certainly did) generate sales on its own. There should have been no settlement at all with this guy. He ripped eden ahbez off, not the other way around.

Every, Single, Time!

I'm late to this party, but I'm definitely on the "No Plagiarism" team. Perhaps I have a tin ear, but it seems I really have to strain to hear even the most subtle of similarities.

Well, the chorus of this Jewish song is definitely the same as main theme in Nature Boy. Both are nice, though

@detroitresearcher

5 жыл бұрын

I agree. The hook has those same three lines, resolves differently. But the rest of the songs and lyrics, totally different. Each beautiful.

Though there is a similarity, the Dvorak composition is actually closer to Nature Boy, so maybe Dvorak's estate should have sued Yabokoff. The facts of eden ahbez's life would certainly support his statement that he never hear Yabokoff's obscure tune.

@barbarazurek4648

2 жыл бұрын

And I wonder what inspired Dvorak. Maybe there was some Ydish song/lullaby that we don't now anymore? Such great composers were often inspired by simple songs changing them into great peaces. I Czech there was a big Jewish comunity and both songwriters where Jewish. It's only a theory.

@suzannigecht8296

Жыл бұрын

Edan had a jewish father, and he was in a jewish home for children as an orphan. Either way, it;s not a big deal except we get to know all 3 versions and enjoy them

There's a similarity in the theme of the lyrics, but I hear no resemblance to Nature Boy. Ahbez was robbed of $25000.

@crieverytim

5 жыл бұрын

you may want to get your ears checked if you don't hear it @2:05 clear as a bell buddy

@karenbracey5834

5 жыл бұрын

@@crieverytim And exactly the same tune as that in the second movement of Dvorak’s 1887 “Piano Quintet No. 2.”

Sounds crap and only a small portion of it is similar to the Nature Boy song. Given that it was also partly a Dvorak tune I'd say that it was just music industry bullying by Yablokoff who was already rich and took a big chunk of Ahbez's money away. The melody in question starts half way through this Yiddish song. It probably originally came from 19th East European folk music.

Why do so many folks assume the worst motives by Yablokoff? The most notable part of the melody is identical, as well as the feel. A financial "taste" would be reasonable.

The only part similar to Nature Boy is a very generic phrase. No wonder some people found it also in Dvorak's music. Yablokov was lucky he got money.

You can't deny the similarity, let's say inspired. On another note, I feel a faster tempo for Nature Boy would sound much better.

It's not where you take ideas from, it's where you take them to.

2:16-3:29

I feel comfortable with the idea that he never heard this song in his life. Having not been influenced by something is an absolute defense. The reason you settle in bogus cases is that civil court only requires you be 51% believable to the jury - you never know if you're going to get a few people that really don't like hippies but think the jews are cool. Not worth the risk and the cost of continuing to a trial. And if he did win he wouldn't get any of that money back unless he countersued, which it's doubtful these people would have had the money to ever pay him back. You tab out the would-be cost of the lawyers and time and just give it to them with an NDA to make it go away

Pinched from Dvorak.

definitely not plagiarized, give me a break

not even close

I would vote no.

Totally plagiarized. But isn’t it wonderful that songs as ancient as time itself, withstand the test of time, passed down through the generations, lost then found, then altered slightly for dramatic effect or artistic license. The main this is that they’re never lost. We love this song today and the lyrics that stand are so magical!

Definitly not similar to Nature Boy.

can you sue over a motif or riff from a song if the rest of the tune is unique?

Not even close to Nature Boy! I don't see the similarity at all.

I have know idea why they made him to pay 25k.(substantial amount at that time) It's just greedy lawyers nothing else here.

I couldn't listen to the whole thing. It's that bad (for me). As for NATURE BOY it's a classic. Unforgettable. Will live on forever. Slicha!!!

@barbarazurek4648

2 жыл бұрын

It's not bad. It's typical for Ydish folklore. Very characteristic. When you listen more you get the mood.

хм.

The song is totally different to nature boy. The first two lines of the chorus are pretty much the same as nature boy, but after that the departure to the chromatically descending run from the root note of the key are so clearly different from the predictable chords and melody from the jews version. Apart from that the ahbez lyrics are poetry. 25,000? Better at business than music some people.

@lasaboteuse

5 жыл бұрын

wow you really had to make this about your anti-semitism, didn't you?

@hopethisworks1212

5 жыл бұрын

I am sorry to disappoint you but to call a jew a jew is not antisemitic!

@patersondave44

4 жыл бұрын

@@hopethisworks1212 well you're tone deaf. that's worse for a critic than antisemitism. antisemitism you probably learned at home. you can't learn tone deaf

Not at all like “Nature Boy.”

Sounds crap and only a small portion of it is similar. Given that it was also partly a Dvorak tune I'd say that it was just music industry bullying by Yablokoff who was already rich and took a big chunk of Ahbez's money away.

@Karlav0nKrishna

10 ай бұрын

Re-written this comment and reposted. Tried in vane to delete this one.

2:07

LMFAO Well at least we know frivolous lawsuits are not a modern phenomenon.

It's very similar to Nature Boy, especially through the last half of the song. It seems clear this is where Nature Boy came from, even down to the lyrics to some extent which start with being about a boy. ahbez called the writer and offered him $10K to withdraw his suit and said he heard the song as if sung by angels in the California hills. The writer said he just wanted him to admit he got the song from this one. He wouldn't but eventually settled for $25,000. As for rejecting royalties, ahbez is reputed to given away half of the immediate royalties to people who had helped him but he made money on it later selling it to films ($10,000 in one instance) and other artists playing it. ahbez had a career in the music industry, writing a number of other songs and running a music studio. As for Yablokoff stealing the tune of Dvorak, that's possible but anyway it shows most music is derivative. Yablokoff's song had the same tune and even started off about a boy.

@annak355

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the additional components to this story, Zigblat. Curious where you heard this version? Would like to research this more.

Influenced by at most

All I can say is thank god English is the language found in most popular music from the last 2 centuries.

Yablokoff was a money grubbing jerk. He stole both from Dvorak --and-- from Abhez. Nature Boy is a beautiful song with a positive spirit . . . this is Klezmer Krap on a Kracker . . .

Although it resolves differently it’s still nearly identical. I think the lawsuit was justified

How did it happen in the last few decades that all of the beautiful Yiddish songs are now sung in this vomitous operatic female voice? Does every failed female opera singer get a brochure "how to destroy Yiddish songs"? How can this be stopped? We have so many Jewish singers with beautiful voices who can sing Yiddish songs, why this horror swan song voice? Haven't our people suffered enough? Our songs were sung by Barry Sisters and Dudu Fisher, what is this voice? Take this video down!

@marissaburgess6023

Жыл бұрын

It certainly sets a precedent for those who don’t know! I hope someone can upload a more pleasant version with a soulful rendition

In any case, NATURE BOY is far superior to this piece of music. Not even close.

It sounds nothing like Nature Boy. What a joke. Many songs or even classical pieces sound similar. Thats just how things are.

@rotarchief

6 жыл бұрын

not until 2:00, but then and on 3:06 I get the problem - although you're right, it's all the same bunch of notes throughout music

@crieverytim

5 жыл бұрын

did you listen to the chorus? @2:05 ? its the same

@Billykid514

4 жыл бұрын

He ripped this song completely you deaf????

Two different songs; and this one, is no good

One of most horrible songs ive ever heard, though i can hear it definitely inspired ahbez.

Terrible. Nothing like Nature Boy

Music is theft

I don't hear it.