I kind of wish Plagg said something like, ‘Cat Noir is his BREAK! You have no idea what his actual life is like, Ladybug!’ which would make Ladybug actually wonder about Cat Noir’s home life

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

I agree!

@quietopinion9637

2 жыл бұрын

How ironic since Plagg hasn't cared to tell her things since the beginning of S4!

@AhSatan

2 жыл бұрын

This would've been a much better line than what we got.

@juliahock5549

2 жыл бұрын

YES!!

@avery8908

2 жыл бұрын

Sadly he can’t say that because plagg is supposed to keep’s cat noir identity a secret, he can’t reveal anything about chat’s personal life, not even a tiny hint

My biggest problem with the episode was how ladybug never really apologizes to cat noir

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

The whole episode made it like Cat Noir was the problem and it didn’t address the real issue which is Marinette (Ladybugs) lack of communication with Cat Noir about some of the superhero decisions that she has made. For example Adrien found out from an upset Nino that two of his best friends are superhero’s and they know each other’s identity even before Marinette became guardian and still allows them to be superhero’s. Second example Marinette still forces the rule about her and Adrien not knowing each other’s identities but reveals her identity to someone that Shadowmoth knows is a superhero but doesn’t tell Cat Noir that someone knows Ladybugs identity. You can argue and say that it’s just to protect each other but Strike Back proves that if Marinette had known that her partner was Cat Noir (vice versa) then she would know that her partner hasn’t left Paris yet and she could just contact Cat Noir much easier than usual. Another example is that Marinette has pushed Cat Noir away and left him out of the loop about superhero things I know she the guardian but as Cat Noir put it ‘We are a TEAM after all’. Ladybug doesn’t act like a team player she expects everyone to do what she wants them to do like forcing Alya to constantly lie to her boyfriend Nino about secretly still being a superhero, or to take down photos Marinette doesn’t like about her and Cat Noir in a relationship, or even using Cat Noir for own selfish purposes to try to convince Adrien aka Cat Noir into a relationship that he doesn’t want with Marinette.

@quietopinion9637

2 жыл бұрын

Why did she need to again? Becuase she said something in the heat of the moment. While he literally left his ring open for SM to take and the villains to win. Neither were perfect, but it was his fault for overreacting tbh

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 given the context of season 4 it makes sense why he would react

@SpudStories123

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 She literally treats him as nothing more than a sack of potatoes despite always being by her side and supporting her. And the fact she'll only appreciate him when finding out he is Adrien in some parallel universe doesn't help. Overreacting my arse. Honestly I'd gladly leave her arse if she thinks I'm so useless if I were in Chat's shoes. Why be stuck in a toxic partnership when you're already stuck in an abusive household?

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpudStories123 Exactly!

it concerns me that most of the people in the fandom would be better at writing the show than the actual writers

@iasminalberis683

2 жыл бұрын

and a the majority of the fandom is kids and teenagers

@kagamitsurgi1604

2 жыл бұрын

@@iasminalberis683 exactly lmao

@Vivigreeny25

10 ай бұрын

I’ve always been interested in this show and a lot of its concepts, but the show just seems to unwatchable that I don’t want to invest myself in it, so at this point I’m kind of considering just… going straight to Ao3.

@zestranfaubert6860

10 ай бұрын

​@@Vivigreeny25Do it. Join us. We are very welcoming. We can be trusted. :D

@sparkyblue7016

4 ай бұрын

​@@Vivigreeny25Agreed the fandom is like, thanks for the concept but we can take it from here 😂. And they do it a million times better lol.

My biggest two problems with the episode: 1. It implies that in order for her to love him he has to change who he is, which is a very wrong and toxic message for kiddos… 2. She never apologized or seemingly felt any remorse for anything. Her instant thought was finding a replacement. I love this show but it’s really not what it used to be man…

@mauricioandres7470

Жыл бұрын

Not only that, but it shows Adrien being totally fine with doing this and not resisting to change his personality

@HawkHuntress

Жыл бұрын

@@mauricioandres7470 Exactly! And on top of that… Plagg ENCOURAGES it. And none of the other Kwamis say anything!

@chockitkat3776

Жыл бұрын

I think it's okay if she wanted to find a chat who wouldn't fall for her. After all, romance DOES affect work (just look at Sailor Moon lol) and so I don't blame Mari for her decision

@BSMutebi-uk3hi

9 ай бұрын

"what it used to be" 🤨 The show literally begins with Marinette being a stalker and everyone being ok with it. I'm not trying to minimize the many problems of this current episode but Miraculous has been sending toxic messages to kiddos this whole time.

@Doomzdeh

8 ай бұрын

The true sin is how the entire conflict was about Ladybug never checking up on Chat Noir and treating him like an expendable tool, yet the episode made it out like Chat was only upset because Ladybug wouldn’t love him back. What complete garbage writing.

I have started saying "Marrinette is a character for the show to develop. Adrien is a tool for the show to use" and this episode encapsulates that perfectly. It is a get out of jail free card for Marrinette as it sets her up as "what ever choice she makes will automatically be right do to her status as guardian"

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

Damn..... that's so true.

@zachanikwano

2 жыл бұрын

due to her status as the main heroine*

@lpsfankanr1

2 жыл бұрын

And yet she's still underdeveloped and inconsistent, not to mention she's just bad...

@andynonymous6769

2 жыл бұрын

Step 2 is to actually develop her. Still waiting...

@guggelguggel7491

2 жыл бұрын

Even though they don't actually get to developing Marinette, they just have hear "learn a lesson" (even when it doesn't make sense) and pretend that's development. Most characters have like, three personalities that changes depending on what the writers need them to spout.

The writers have forgotten that the entire reason Marinette fell for Adrien is he was kind to her despite someone he was close to bullying her and making her feel horrible. He chose to be a decent person despite Chloe's wants for him to join in one making Marinette miserable. He saw it was pouring and offered her an umbrella, never expecting her to return it. Except, they did remember, but not until the finale. Wherein they paralleled that scene and FINALLY had her see that Chat Noir made the same gesture just without a physical object. He was there when it was pouring, when the world fell around her and she felt like she lost. But hes done this for her SO MANY TIMES ALREADY. This idea she would fall for Catwalker before he even tried to help her, was probably some of the biggest assasination to Mari's character Ive seen yet. Marinette season 1 fell for a boy who gave her the time of day when no one else would and symbolized that with an umbrella. Marinette season 4 fell for a fancy boy in latex.

@Orkprof

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed! She falls for Cat Walker because he's serious, focused, very controlled and... what!? That part of Adrien did not conquer her in the first place! You're right, they forgot the umbrella scene and what happened in it. In that moment she saw his kind, caring side, not his... professionalism!

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

THIS!

@Thesilentvoice...

2 жыл бұрын

This is so true. The show did tease Ladybug liking Chat Noir before the s4 finale, so is this s4 Ladybnoir scene just redundant? Remember Chat kissed her on the cheek after she told him she liked someone else after he gave her a rose and she blushed. Chat sacrificed himself multiple times for Ladybug and that has gotten her to show affection for him, but its now only in s4 that we are expected to believe she finally fell for him? I think in s5 they will go back to the whole dynamic of him flirting with her and ladybug turning him down. Just like how they did with all the moments before. She should have liked Chat Noir in s3 if anything, there were so much moments in that season that showed she liked him. He's been showing his adrien side a lot before that s4 finale moment.

@neff6185

2 жыл бұрын

it’s also sad to see how adrien feels more himself as cat noir but marinette only likes the self adrien forces himself to portray, both normally, and in super hero form, this episode really made me dislike her as a character, especially the past few episodes before this and how badly adrien/cat is being treated with absolutely no resolution or apology? like????

@snatchingcareers4681

2 жыл бұрын

Yea it honestly makes Marinette’s crush on Adrien seem shallow if the audience didn’t think it was already.

The fact that Ladybug only likes Cat Noir when he is acting like he does with his father, is very concerning. It's like she only likes the idealized version of Adrian she has, not Adrian himself. The thing is, relationships can't work if you only love the person on a good day. If you only love one small part of them, then you don't truly love them. It's ok to despise certain aspects of a person, but when those flaws make you no longer love them, then you don't love them as a person, you love the idea of them.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed ! It's exactly like what you said. What disturb me is how the series says that what Marinette feels is true love when it's clearly not. She's in love with an ideal. She doesn't love the person for who they are. It's fake and supercificial. She just love the idea of Adrien. That's not what love is and even more true love. You don't love people for the idea of them.

@mariantambe5110

Жыл бұрын

​@@coldbutsweet9748it'd be cool to see Marinette acting like this with Adrien.... And then have her see his reaction to his father treating him the same way. Get some growth in! Have her distance herself from her love, recognizing it as unhealthy. Try to seek out better examples of love. Then have them reveal their identities and still have to work together with her trying to keep romance out of it. And eventually get to a point where she explains to Adrien that she doesn't think she'd be good for him romantically.

@liaheben

7 ай бұрын

the concerning part is Cat Noir and Ladybug had talked a lot, but Adrien and Marinette barely talked to each other because she made it impossible. A lot of people said and it's true that the most healthy relationship is not betwen CN and LB or Adrien and Marienette, the healthiest is between Marinette and Cat Noir. The moronic thing is that she instantly forgot almost everything they talked and keep treating Cat Noir like crap.

@liaheben

7 ай бұрын

@@coldbutsweet9748 and the series does it with Kagami and Adrien, and they break up, because he can't tell her he's Cat Noir, but the true is that she has an ideal Adrien in her mind that isn't real, like we see in "lies".

Yeah. Plagg shouldn't have defended Ladybug. But let's focus on the part that Plagg yelled at Ladybug! That is so satisfying!

@quietopinion9637

2 жыл бұрын

Plagg was in the wrong

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 Ugh. Can you please screw off?! Your so intoxicated!

@justafatuiharbinger

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 how??? Edit: this took way too long for me to understand what that reply meant. Plagg shouldn’t have defended her since it was her fault

@ranun5973

2 жыл бұрын

Uh, yikes.

@lpsfankanr1

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but not satisfying enough. He should have anihilated her. Tis was but a scratch.

What I hate the most about this whole ordeal is that I actually like the idea of Chat Noir being sidelined by the temporary heroes and that leading to a rift between the two of them. And with Ladybug refusing to communicate with her supposed equal and true partner, she keeps giving herself far more trouble and piles of responsibilities that she isn't ready to deal with or can't by herself (even having Alya helping her), but instead of asking CN for help, she just doubles down on neglecting his existence and makes things even worse as the season goes on. But the execution was TERRIBLE!!! It all came down to Chat Noir being annoyed sometimes, but then throwing hissy fits in some episodes pretty afar from each other. When Kuro Neko came, the show didn't really build on the idea that CN was being neglected, only that he tried to talk to Ladybug when she was busy and under pressure, and his actions came off as someone petty trying to get attention rather than a true partner that is really trying their best but continuing to be ignored! For Kuro Neko to work, the entire season should have been building up to this moment, by having Ladybug constantly having nightmares or remembering Chat Blanc and refusing to call for CN's help because of it! And with the temporary heroes, she has the perfect excuse to stop interacting with him! Have CN not be his goofy and silly self this season, but be even more neglected and abused by his father, and with Emily bedridden he has no one to talk to at his own house outside of Plagg, and you have the two sides piling up bad emotions. Then, when Ladybug says to Plagg Chat Noir can have all the free time he wants because she has made the decision to not put him in the field, Plagg has the moral ground to scold her for pushing HER ideals into Chat Noir - she doesn't know how much Adrien wants to be Chat Noir, how much he wants and NEEDS to be useful, because that's all he has left at this point. And then her not realizing Kuro Neko is a Sentimonster, instead insisting that it really was Chat Noir akumatized, would just lead the rift between them to grow even bigger. THAT would have been a much bigger threat to the heroes in a season finale than Risk or Strikeback were! The reason Ladybug always wins is because she always has the support of everyone around her, be it the heroes, the city itself or Chat Noir. If CN and LB have a falling, they can't work together to fight such a complicated enemy as Strikeback, which then would lead Ladybug to make all the mistakes she did without even the need for Risk. When Chat Noir decides to show by her side and comfort her after she's lost all the Miraculous to Hawkmoth, it comes off as a powerful moment that shows Chat Noir's instance on his responsibilities to Paris, and that can be the trigger for Ladybug to start trusting others more and actually confide in Chat Noir! That could elad to a Season 5 reveal of their identities, but Adrien having been hurt by the neglect in the past, he would be completely over his crush on Ladybug and only see Marinette as his school mate whom he fights crime with. THE DRAMA WRITES ITSELF, WHY CAN'T ZAG GET IT RIGHT!?

@kindabatooni9314

2 жыл бұрын

Because of fake/wrong feminism agendas. By that I mean the writers’/producers’ idea of feminism which isn’t the real true feminism we women wants.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

I SO agree with you ! It was not this difficult to do this angst ! They have good ideas but they can't do anything with it ! That's why it's so frustrating ! That's why Miraculous ladybug and Cat Noir is so frustrating ! They're so bad at executing their ideas that it's becoming more and more frustrating. I knew it that this build up would happen ! I knew they'll screw up everything once again ! I wish what you wrote was the canon one ! Would you replace the team in charge of Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir because you're clearly much better than any of the people who agreed to do this piece of... Work (I would not call this series and episode garbage or sh*t because there's still work, effort and times spend on it) ? You're really a good one ! If only they would stick to what you wrote in your comment... Also I so understand you. I hate that they have good ideas but they're so bad at doing it.

@TwilightWolf032

2 жыл бұрын

@@coldbutsweet9748 I don't know if I would replace the team per se, after all they gave us Season 2, which had lots of character development (especially Chloe), but I would definitely remove Astruc from the writing. I would have him outline a path for the plot to take, have him determine an ending point that the writers can work towards, but definitely would keep him away from the writing room.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

@@TwilightWolf032 You're really wise ! I agree with every words of yours ! As sad as it sounds... Thomas Astruc should be removed from the writing process... I once again agree with you ! Maybe Thomas could tell them how he imagine it to end and let him do the draft of how he sees things but that's it...

@infinitedreamer9359

2 жыл бұрын

My problem is not only the episode makes out CN's issues with Ladybug to be about him being inappropriately flirty with her,which isn't true(and hasnt been true for a while now),but the show wants to ignore how Ladybug has been treating CN unfairly since Day 1 in the show. She's always locked him him out of the loop when it came to Miraculous lore, never told him her plans, never let him either give his opinion on or or recruit any of the temp Miraculous wielders. There's always been an unequalness in their partnership and the only thing Chat Blanc and Ladybug being guardian did was make that worse. But the narrative wants to pretend that this is exclusively a S4 issue for the two. And that's BS to me.

Another thing, Marinette's primary reason not sharing identities with Chat Noir is because of the fear of one of them being Akumatized. Yet all throughout season 4, we have seen multiple people both resist and break free of an Akuma (Chloe in season 3, Alya, Sabine, Felix, and Nino). And when some of that fear comes from Chat Blanc, she still doesn't explain that entire story to him to try and justify her fears. And the fact that so many people have resisted an Akuma (probably to diminish the significance of Chloe doing it first) leads to a whole mess of issues. Basically, everybody seems to have the capacity to resist and reject and Akuma, which makes their actions while akumatized more intentional (in a sense). Even when people like Luka resist, the fact that they fail to reject it paints it as if they embraced the Akuma. And considering the Akumatized people seem to have free will and choose to follow Hawkmoth's orders makes them seem more guilty It's funny how Shadowmoth is supposed to be an upgrade for Gabriel, but then everybody is just casually rejecting Akuma's after a cheesy pep-talk

@lobaoguara2332

2 жыл бұрын

Gabriel: I'm hiring you to fetch the ladybug and Cat Noir miraculous. Random Guy: What if I don't want to? Gabriel:... Random face: Shadowmoth ? Gabriel: Ahhhh... OH NO, ANOTHER PERSON WHO CAN RESIST MY AKUMA!!!

@000Dragon50000

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly the worst writing decision the show has ever made (which is saying a LOT) is Marinette never explaining any part of Cat Blanc to noire, like, he deserves to know about something that serious.

@midgetmarshmallow3357

2 жыл бұрын

The thing about having free will whilst akumatized... The thing that sucks is that the writers forgot a sorta important detail they had established as far back as Season 1, in the episode "Evillustrator"-- if the akumatized refuse to follow Hawkmoth's orders, Hawkmoth has the ability to exert some sort of control over their body against the akumatized's will. To refresh you: Nathaniel was having his little birthday date with Mari when Hawkmoth interjects via telepathy to push Nathaniel to focus on his mission to get the Miraculi/Miraculouses. Nathaniel was setting up his boat date with Mari, and Hawkmoth warned him by seizing control of his arm (or applying pressure on it or something because Nath's arm shakes and he drops the pen... implications of being able to harm/control akumatized if they do not follow orders). You don't see this return after this episode. It's just akumatized people ignoring Hawkmoth and him pathetically sitting in the backseat trying to get them to focus on his goal.

@lobaoguara2332

2 жыл бұрын

@@midgetmarshmallow3357 Shadow moth was supposed to have more power than hawkmoth but it seems that having two Miraculouses made him MUCH weaker since he turns and moves people free themselves from the akuma... As you said yourself, Shadow Moth is now just waiting for someone to do something that be convenient. I think from now on, he has to be more selective with who he akumatizes or he'll stay in his room crying that one more rejected him hahahah.

@relicsplace9218

2 жыл бұрын

There is only Chloe who suceed to resist an akuma tho. Alya's situation is not "resisting" she just broke the akumatization on herself and they are both the only ones who able to do these things in the series. The other ones just tried but never suceed and Nino doesnt count because his akumatization purpose was already solved probably everyone would be able to break free from that

LB crushing on Catwalker DIRECTLY undermines WHY she loved Adrien in season one! DESPITE his politeness, Marinette assumed it was an act until he PROVED it was genuine. Her falling for his act and us KNOWING that's all it is....reverts the love square. This was the nail in its coffin.

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

For me I think it’s the same as for her so called ‘love’ for Adrien. When they first met Marinette assumed that Adrien was cruel like Chloe but when she found out his kinder side Marinette immediately ‘fell’ for Adrien so it’s not that far fetched that Marinette would do the same in Kuro Necko even though it’s superficial

@Zephirite.

2 жыл бұрын

@@IsmaelCiulla True.

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

@@Zephirite. 👍

@Xanegoh

2 жыл бұрын

It only further shows how shallow she is. But Astruc won't recognize that.

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

@@Xanegoh true

Same reason Chloe turned on Ladybug. Would have actually been interesting if they had tried this plotline with Chloe, over a longer period of time. Marinette doesnt want to use Chloe because its Chloe. Chloe betrays them. Marinette gets in trouble and needs a bee holder but cant get one herself for some reason so she tells Pollen to find a holder. Pollen goes to Chloe who comes back in a new disguise. Marinette suddenly loves this "new" Bee holder and uses her more often without knowing who it is.

@mirror2760

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that would have been amazing. Chloe could have kept her character development and LB/Mari would have no reason to dislike her. This needs to be a fanfic 😍😍

@nekogamer2508

3 ай бұрын

​@@mirror2760but Thomas austruc calls her an unredeemable monster

One funny thing from this episode is how it further highlights the stupid Chat Nior identity leak in Ephemeral. Adrian had a whole arts and craft project going on designing a new cat suit whilst talking it out with Plagg and that doesn't cause any suspicion, yet Adrien saying an established term over the phone was an instant give away. Where did he put that flip-board when he was done?!?

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

IKR!?!

@YuriPlisetskyKinnie

2 жыл бұрын

What established term again

@yeastov5470

2 жыл бұрын

@@YuriPlisetskyKinnie My lady, although it's a bit of a meme term, it's one that's existed for a long time, and doesn't relate only to ladybug. Although now that I think about it it could have been something else in French but I have no idea if that was the case.

@YuriPlisetskyKinnie

2 жыл бұрын

@@yeastov5470 ooh thx

@MiraculousDisneyILadybug

2 жыл бұрын

@@yeastov5470 no it's ma lady aka m'lady too

What I see going on here from this episode is that Adrien NEEDS HELP. Everyone knows Gabriel is abusive and manipulative to both Adrien and Natalie, for Adrien it’s one of the only relationships he has ever had in his entire life, this means he thinks what he and his father have is “healthy” because his father says it is, therefore it is law. Something that happens fairly often to children who grew up in an abusive environment have a higher chance of getting into an equally abusive/toxic romance later in life. It’s the only thing they know and they think it’s how relationships are in general. Adrien is so used to being nothing but an object to people, a convenience or a china tea set only to be viewed and never used. Chloé treats him like a personalized accessory to drag around and look famous, Lila keeps him around only as a tool to make everyone’s least favorite Heroine jealous for literally no reason, Gabriel keeps him around like some mannequin to hang clothes on in a storefront window, a extension of his will rather than a growing human with free will. Marinette isn’t too far from that too. When Adrien first met Ladybug he was under the impression that they where equals, two halves of one whole, not only that but he could actually be himself around her and she wouldn’t become angry or aggressive toward him. Adrien fell in love with her because she was one of the few people to treat him like an equal human with a mind of his own. This idea has been engrained in his mind not only as a supposedly healthy relationship but a plausible escape plan. As the seasons go on their relationship becomes very toxic, and Ladybug is beginning to treat him just like everyone else does, an accessory, a convenience, just another sock in the pile. Adrien refuses to acknowledge the toxicity because he is desperate to escape the hell his life has become and he still believes that Ladybug is the only lifeline, even though said lifeline is slowly being pulled back up. Chat Noir apologizes instead of Ladybug because he actually believes that he is in the wrong, in his mind he always is. He tries to break away from the beaten-to-death path and immediately is blamed for it no matter who it is he’s with. I’m a firm believer that Adrien should be with Kagami and Mari should be with Luca. Adrien and Kagami have similar hellhole situations and can escape together without having to wait for someone to realize that they NEED HELP. Mari and Luca are good for one another because Mari is everywhere at once and freaks out often, but that is balanced by Luca’s calm demeanor and ability to think clearly even when stressed. Adrien needs to be saved from the torture he lives every day, someone needs to end his suffering and set him free, I can tell you one thing, it won’t be Ladybug who does it.

@LoreCatan

2 жыл бұрын

I have never agreed more, and I couldn't have said it better myself, aside from- ADRIEN SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE MAIN CHARACTER!! It's like they created this perfectly good story, and then were like "No! Magical girl stories with magical transformations have female leads! Make him her partner instead!" and then made him nearly incompetent while they tried to figure out what to do with Marinette in this universe they've created. And they've pushed him down to bring her up ever since, Adrien is abused by the writers the most, not just ladybug. It's just sad to see, especially since Adrien is a much more interesting character than Marinette, she just bores me.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

@@LoreCatan Exactly! Thank you! I'm glad someone gets it!

@dorothydumang3735

2 жыл бұрын

Now that you mentioned it, I sympathized this boy too much that I just really don't care about any other characters anymore. MLB is such a good idea of a show but wasted with terrible plots

@STRiPESandShades

2 жыл бұрын

THIS absolutely. I am convinced that someone on the writing team of MLB has gone through something serious in the past but someone (Austruc, the studio, what-have-you) is preventing a more grown-up conversation and more serious depictions of what's really happening which leads to these lukewarm representations of what an abusive home life looks like in its victims. Catwalker is very obviously a fallout from Adrien's desperate need to be a people-pleaser and do whatever it takes to get people to like him. One thing I do appreciate from this episode is how they address the whole "Adrien is only himself as Chat Noir" idea some fans seem to latch onto. Because that is absolutely and provably not true and I'm glad Plagg took the time to remind Adrien himself of this.

@elizahart661

2 жыл бұрын

@@LoreCatan I whole heartedly agree! Adrien is much more interesting than most characters. Ironically the character who is supposed to be in LOVE with Ladybug is the only one who comes close to calling out her bs. Every other character has had some resolution, so there's not much more to see, but they also ALL kiss Marinette's/Ladybug's as$ all the time to where it gets insufferable. Adrien is honestly so refreshing.

The thing that bothered me most about this episode is that it basically spelled out in big block letters, Marinette DOES NOT like Adrien when he's being himself. She doesn't like the real him. She has deluded herself into thinking Adrien is some perfect Ken doll boy toy, and she does not like him when he's being himself. It's wild

@saddlerrye6725

11 ай бұрын

Not to mention that Kuro Neko also proves that Mari is capable of "falling in love" with anyone as long as they fit the Prince Charming stereotype. She just basically wants to be together with a pretty blond boy who's always kind, generous and a real gentleman.

@izzy1356

11 ай бұрын

​@bluespirit5112And similarly with his Cat Noir pose afterwards, where she *still* told him he wasn't being natural. I know people had more problems with *that* part in particular, because of the "that's his true self how dare you" thing *But she hit the nail on the head.* Him being "silly" as Cat Noir is just him going *full-tilt* in the opposite direction of his modeling self. Yes he's choosing to act that way, but it's in such a forced rebellious way that it unintentionally horseshoes back around to the same problem: He's acting like a persona and not himself. He *still* keeps a mask on around others until he snaps from the pressure. This one just happens to be "sillier." The fact that Kagami can see through *both* facádes instantly, and Marinette *just* started to see through *one,* is honestly sad.

@clarisacalderon9555

8 ай бұрын

hmmm, you have a point. thogh i would say its still a issue because thats the side adrien has been using to try to express himself in ways he doesnt/cant as adrien. she's semi right its a bit of a persona...but she is also semi wrong becuase that WAS him trying to open up and she dismissed it as him just being silly which would close himself off more...though not enough people note thats a problem marinette/ladybug also has as chat has shown he can be sincere and serious about things but she will often default to assuming he's not being serious sometimes even when he is. I think it reminded me of that time he tried to be more silly around marinette in his prank with the statues which WAS actually his way to open up and how he panicked because it had a bad result and upset mari. but he has also interacte dwith marinette as chat and been accepted where she played along with his jokes abit til he felt comfortable enough to open up his chat side as well which might explain why he is more open to talking to marinette at times. though I would say adrien has actually opened up to marinette more often at times...but I think thats also becuase he opened up on the first meeting when he was trying to explian his sitaution of being new and teh gum incident and how nino assured adrien about mari. mari has seen more sincere times of adrien...but its usually becuase adrien choose to bare them on his own rather than mari actaully being able to see him more clearly than anyone else. and even then adrien isnt aware mari isnt really absorbing those moments properly either. honestly I kindof wish kagami found out adrien was chat because it would show her that he left their date because he had a good reason(fighting the bad guy) and she would see his sily prsona he showed her HAD actually been his attempt to open up that she just assuemd was him not taking her want for him to open up seriously..becuase while I understood kagami's reaction to the situation...she did jump to conclusions a bit and if she had been a bit more patient maybe something would have changed sicne kagami CAN be a bit harsh..not jst on others but on herself at times...to contrast luka who feels like he can be TOO understanding at times where he enabled some of mari's not senstaive behaviours.@@izzy1356

@liaheben

7 ай бұрын

@@clarisacalderon9555 well Kagami has problems dealing with people because she has the same problems than Adrien, and had even less friends. She had to lie to her mother to play that game to try to find a friend.

I think her attraction to Catwalker wasn’t inherently wrong, but I think the flaw was that she should’ve realized how much more she enjoyed HER cat noir, no matter how charming the other one is. This makes it feel like she can’t love both sides of Adrien inherently. We need to see her love for cat noir as a person. Also my only caveat to the “not needing cat noir 24/7” thing is that she reasonably can’t get him when an akuma is loose and needs help. What if Adrien just doesn’t know what’s going on until much later? So I can understand her maybe using a hero when he’s clearly not showing up. But I do agree that she used too many heroes and I also think she should hold out for him for at least a little while. Just my thoughts :)

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

Which is why I don’t ship Marinette and Adrien at all. I don’t ship it because both of them only like one side of the person and they treat the other like an object not a person with faults, quirks and things that Marinette and Adrien don’t like

@billykaplan9915

2 жыл бұрын

@@IsmaelCiulla and Ephimeral and Chat Blanc make it so they are magically ok with the sides they ignore cause is the perfect person they know already

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

@@billykaplan9915 yeah exactly

@juicebox7372

2 жыл бұрын

@@IsmaelCiulla Idk Adrien seems to like marinette (subconsciously at least if we go through the episodes)I can't say the same for marinette though

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

@@juicebox7372 Marinette doesn’t love Adrien like she thinks she does but Adrien don’t know but we do know that he only likes Marinette as a friend

The 'I got rejected so I changed myself to fit their attractions so they would choose me (even though who i become will not be who i really am)' trope has been so devastating every time I encounter it. Mari falling for a cat version of Adrien the Model Boy is so disheartening when Chat Noir was Adrien's free self living without the weight of expectations tied to his name. I genuinely become sad listening to this recap at that scene, I have stopped watching Miraculous for so long and this is worse than it was.

when she admitted that she pushed chat away in the final scene in Striker back, It rubbed me wrong., instead of saying "I'm sorry i didnt realise I was doing that i was stupid blah blah blah i thought I was protecting you" she fully admited that she did pushed him away. to me, Marinette was very aware of what she was doing - It wasnt an unconcious act bred by her trauma from chat blanc, It was a choice that, and the fact that she let chat take all the blame in kuro-neko, just reaaaaaally didnt sit well with me

@quietopinion9637

2 жыл бұрын

Chat Noir did the same thing too lol

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 When ?

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

Ohh. Wow. Now the ending scene in Strike Back peeves me off!

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

This made me feel glad I didn't watch Kuro Neko.

@RodrigoSilva-cy4no

2 жыл бұрын

She doesn’t have any trauma of chat Blanc, why would you say that? She has never wanted to reveal her identity to begin with

Miraculous Ladybug is a prime example of how to not write a good story and characters

My problem is not only the episode makes out CN's issues with Ladybug to be about him being inappropriately flirty with her,which isn't true,but the show wants to ignore how Ladybug has been treating CN like shit since Day 1. She's always locked him him out of the loop when it came to Miraculous lore, never told him her plans, never let him either give his opinion on or or recruit any of the temp Miraculous wielders. There's always been an unequalness in their partnership and the only thing Chat Blanc and Ladybug being guardian did was make that worse. But the narrative wants to pretend that this is exclusively a S4 issue for the two. And that's BS.

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

THIS!

@Barlmoro

2 жыл бұрын

maybe this is a very unpopular idee of me, but maybe its a very well hidden critique on how modern relationships are representet. In many media you have often the nerative that the girl is perfect and only the boyfriend makes mistakes and has to say sorry. mari is strong and indipendent and do not need CN but this mindset brings problems, cose you often need someone you can trust, but if you push to fare away this person, it becomes a problem.

@infinitedreamer9359

2 жыл бұрын

@@Barlmoro Hah! I doubt the Thomas and/or the writers are clever enough for it to be a satire.If it is, then they sure as hell don't make it obvious enough and that's still not an excuse for bad writing.

@Monty2289

2 жыл бұрын

I would argue that regardless of holders she is the star of the show because her power directly interacts with and counters the powers of the badguy. Which is stupid. Lucky Charm is fine. But Capturing Akuma and the Miraculous Ladybugs should not have been exclusive to that miraculous. Especially capturing the akuma. If Astruc wants to make her super important that's fine. The Miraculous Ladybug being exclusively hers (for some reason) could cause some tension. Kind of like Bleach in a way. Where when Soul Reapers fight hollows they purify them while Quincy destroys them. How great of a dynamic is if Chat goes off cause critical damage in paris but CAPTURES the Akuma without LB. Then it causes a problem because if she's not there to fix every Paris gets fucked

@infinitedreamer9359

2 жыл бұрын

@@Monty2289The point I was trying to make about the temp holders is that it's another way that shows the CN/LB partnership is unequal. It shows that she doesn't really trust or respect him(despite what the show tells you)if she can't even be bothered to tell CN about it,let alone him give his opinion on the temp wielders,or recruit them.Because even if its temporary,it's still a huge shift to the dynamic that he often to deal with at the last minute. As for how OP the Ladybug is,I agree. It's one example of the broken magic/power system.The LB is so OP it makes every other Miraculous wielder look useless next to it.The fact that ML has become a superhero team show makes this worse,since it screws with the teamwork angle that you'd normally get from shows like that.Why have any other Miraculous when the LB is the deus ex machina capable of doing anything the plot needs? And it's especially bad when it comes to the BC,because it's supposed to be the equal and opposite of the LB in raw power but the show never shows that. If I were writing the show I'd either have it so that both the Miraculous Ladybug and purify technique is something that could only be done by the LB and BC combining their powers together(emphasizing the teamworkus) Wonder Twins style or have so the LB can purify akuma,but the BC is the only thing that could break an object the akuma is hiding in. And the second one is something that could easily be done in the show,but they won't do it because god help us if Mari/LB have power limitations and someone steals her spotlight!

I kinda think Kuro Neko was actually not that Useless, in Risk he said the exact same thing he heard in the news that episode "Cat noir despite being the most amazing and first of super heroes is now just a partner like any other". In Kuro Neko I was like " was that supposed to be an apology? If someone told me that for an apology I'd just feel even worse" But I saw a lot of people liked that scene and I thought that well maybe I had a problem, but then it has been showed that Yeah That's True! That "apology" didn't fix anything, and cat noir is still sad enogh to make all the final episodes have no color at all, cat noir was the fun part of the show, making jokes and stuffs, and that color's gone..

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

Cat Noir deserves better! Seriously. Screw Ladybug!

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

It's *because* of the fact that Adrien remains the comedy relief that butcher's his character. If they were to take him seriously for once, I think things could change.

As a writer myself, I try to keep as much out of the dialogue as possible. I do it occasionally, like when I explain how a magic system works, because I've written a mentor speaking to a class of new students. Or in the very beginning when I have no idea how to start. But, if it's how a character feels, I describe their actions and body language. For example, "he said, his voice starting to weaken and his hands tightening around the cloth on his shirt." Because that sounds better than him spending two paragraphs explaining how he feels. I also keep notes to make sure I don't contradict information stated in previous chapters. I plan out scenes way before I write them, reread what I've made, and check to see if there are inconsistencies. If a character is saying the problem is X but the story shows the problem is Y, I rewrite the line to be about Y or I make it a twist. They were so focused on X that they didn't see Y and the antagonists won because of it. Lastly, the show breaks another rule I follow, "characters do not need to explain something that's natural to them." Basically, you do not explain what a can is to someone else who already knows. Ladybug relies on you having the memory of a goldfish and explains quite literally everything to you whenever it feels like it can shove in lore we already know. Come on, do we need to be told again what'll happen when Hawk Moth gets the two miraculous? This was a stupid rant done by a writer. Thank you for reading.

@YellowMango12

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry this may be off of what you are saying (I actually do agree as well what you say by the way) But I was wondering. As someone that makes characters, Do you have any advice how to write characters??

@TrickWiz

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who dreams to become a writer, this is great advice. When I write stories in my notebook, I try to follow the rules you stated above. At least this show is teaching us what not to do😁

@rinyukiohara8178

2 жыл бұрын

Well, to put things in a short comment that won't kill youtube, you should envision what you want. Think about the person you want to create and feel free to base them on someone you know or characters you like. Some of the greatest characters in stories come from real life ideals that people have and the actions they take to reach those goals. Don't be afraid to be cliche or simple in the beginning, because the deeper parts come later when you've played with more parts of the story. Give them wants and needs, and have them strive for those goals. Give them obstacles at times to make it difficult. And give them a reason to pursue their dreams. They should also clash with those who have ideals opposite of them or want the same thing but can't both have it. That's kind of a short version, if you want more specific help, I suggest looking at the type of character you want to write and see how others did it. Or, look at stories who did it wrong and get ideas from those who rewrote it.

@AhSatan

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who is also a writer, this is legit. This shows breaks so many basic writing rules that it baffles me - show, don't tell is one of the most basic rules and as you've mentioned, this shows requires the audience to have the memory of a goldfish.

@giorgosgiorgos2374

2 жыл бұрын

​@@YellowMango12 I don't consider myself to be an expert or anything, but I do have some rules I try to stick to when writting characters. All of them, though, boil down to this: Know your characters. Have a basic framework of how you write them. What do they like/dislike? What ticks them off? How do they view the world? What's their story? I don't mean to say plan everything out from the start, but you do need to have some general idea of how the character you write is going to turn out. Try not to retcon things whenever you feel like it. If you say that the MC has 3 sisters, they have 3 sisters. If they lied or are keeping a secret, hint at it. If you say they hate bugs, then they're going to react accordingly when they see one, not suddenly 'forget' that fact. If you're going to retcon something, think long and hard on how to make it organically. Another important tip is give their personality dimension. Don't be like 'Oh, he's kind', 'Oh, she's a b*tch', 'Oh, they're smart'. Instead, do it like this: 'Oh, he's kind because his favourite movie hero was kind', 'Oh, she's a b*tch because her parents neglected her all her life and that's the only way to get their attention', 'Oh, they're smart because they spend their entire life isolated with books for company'. Give them depth. Make them compicated. Make them elegant in public, but laidback when alone. Being nice to everybody, but badmouthing them behind their back. The more you built up on them, the more real they'll feel and the easier the readers get attached to them.

Cat Noir may have a crush on Ladybug, but at least he's able to function as a superhero. Sometimes his crush may even get him to work harder to impress her. But it doesn't work the other way around. Ladybug doesn't function at all. When I watched Kuro Neko for the first time, I thought that Ladybug might have realized that and my wishful thinking was that this would help her appreciate Cat Noir more. Or at least realize that Cat Noir having a crush on her isn't as big of a deal as she's making it out to be.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Thank you!

The reason Marinette wasn't criticized is because Thomas refuses to give her genuine flaws, or acknowledge them. Instead, it's all Cat Noir's fault, despite him not deserving to basically be ditched by Ladybug after everything he's done for her. And I agree, it bothers me that Ladybug is attracted to the more 'caged' version of Adrien, or the fake mask Adrien wears to please people because that's what makes Gabriel fond of him.

@clarisacalderon9555

8 ай бұрын

the issue is marinette is clearly a complex character with pretty consistant flaws/weaknesses. she's over all a good person but she is bad at seeing from other's points of view accurtaely and her own feelinsg on a subject will crop up where she has a habit of justifying what she does or acts even if it doesnt match the evidence all the time this isnt nessacarily bad as most teenagers are self focused and its a charcter flaw lots of guy characters have. she has a bit of pride despite ehr insecurities. she's honestly very talented and is creative and is good at making plans..and when she does mess up she does feel bad. and she isnt very positive and needs someone to give her a push at times and she can be a bit quick to judge where he opinion wont change unless someone is firm with new evidence. mari tends to get tunnel vision when she has a idea f ho wthings are suppoused to go or when under stress. that is actually pretty consistant...adn ehr being a cute girl who generally DOES mean well and helps her friends means most might let some of her issues slide so its easier for mari to not get called out as often since her friends know she means well. the issue with they give up a flawed complex character...but then TELL us she is suppoused to be this perfect rolemodel character when she usually has two motiavtions...the more nice heroic based one and her more personal feelings based one. which is a issue becuase it implys they are either writing her wrong..or that her bad behaviour we are seeing is suppoused to be good, or that we are blind and what we are seeing isnt whats we are seeing...which understandably get speople annoyed. I actually don't mind her missing out what her main flaws are at times because smetimes people in real life might not realize teh main issues for a while...but I do wis when it does get acknoelged it gets acknoeldged properly....like they have TRIED to adress it...but only in the isntances where mari was actually right o it falls flat. like how in the fianlly when she said chat awwas right and she hasnt been trreating him well frusertaed me becuase while I agreed with what she was saying...it didnt actually feel like she leanred that lesson properly..adn it was under circumstances which werent REALLY her fault(felix and risk this time) and felt odd when she had been portrayed as right most of the other times in the season. it felt ike she was just saying it to have him agree and feed her feeling bad...which while relatable...still felt off. or like when when she tried to say she felt awkward around luka becuase being around him might hrt luka becuase she loves adrien even though WE all know the breakup was done well and luka was understanding and that her feelings for adrien werent actually part of why she broke up with luka. mari has been written with flaws and complexity...the issue is they either pretend they wrote her in a way that doesnt match with whatthey've shone and never adress the source of her actual issues.

It kind of reminds me of Thomas in general, who doesn't really apologize and doesn't like to hear criticism. Thomas has accidentally projected his inability to self-reflect onto Marinette and made it so her environment isn't calling her out as much as it should.

Lovely video Gale! It’s too bad some sections of the fandom can’t seem to listen to genuine criticism without either thinking “YES! I found another hater to spew venom with” or “You’re just a hater, and I’m going to dismiss everything you say”.

@TaliEpshtein

2 жыл бұрын

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll what makes you say such disrespectful things to her? She’s just a cartoon critic, cmon.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

@@TaliEpshtein sorry. I was in a bad mood earlier. I shouldn't have said those things. I apologize.

@TaliEpshtein

2 жыл бұрын

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll it’s not for me to accept your apology, be well.

@Orkprof

2 жыл бұрын

Lots of people just don't think with their heads. So many times I've seen Astruc spew nonsense about his show on Twitter, and hordes of adoring fans replied "YAAAAS KING".

@TaliEpshtein

2 жыл бұрын

@@Orkprof Either that or any critic calling the show trash & hoards of fans will go on to bully fanblogs out of sheer spite

I remember when the show first started and I really shipped the love square. I hope the ship NEVER happens. Marinette does NOT care about Adrien. She likes the idea of him and is projecting her fantasies on him. She is OBSESSED with him. Obsession does not equal love. Adrien, in the most recent season, has been subjected to this treatment too. He has become obsessed with Ladybug and his character is being changed from a really interesting character to a lovestruck comic relief character who is incompetent. Ladybug refuses to admit that she is manipulating and hurting Chat Noir. I can understand her frustration about his endless pursuit but I can't excuse the physical abuse and her constantly leading him on and invalidating him. Chat Noir needs to understand and respect boundaries. You can still love someone and be supportive without making someone uncomfortable. Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.

@clarisacalderon9555

Жыл бұрын

I would argue about that. Adrien HAS actually shown that he will listen to her not being interested. its easy to not notice because we are in mari's point of view...but after he was scolded in frozer..he realized he cant expect her feelings to change and he realized he cant force himself to just move on if he's not ready...but that also mean when he DID have chemistry with kagami in later episodes it wasnt just to rebound like how frozer made it look. adrien missed out on a fist bump with ladybug to take care of kagami and he clearly had feeligs for kagami as a love akuma sensed his interest in her. the irony in miracle queen was that ladybug had assumed chat was just rying to make her jealous like on frozer..when in reality he was genuinely interested in kagami. yes he backed out of kissing kagami that episode but he did just have to deal with ladybug havbing to rely on him even more and the situation with all the lost side heros beigng knownby hawkmoth. and a factor was adrien and kagami had just planned to hang out at friends that day. it was marinette choosing to push them together out of the blue that made it clear that they werent quite ready to be together yet. and ladybug assumed chat was just trying to get around ehr rejection by giving a 'platonic flower' when in reality he WAS sincerely giving her the flower to mean friendship. adrien wasnt indenial that his feelings for ladybug were gone...but he had realized that he could try to just feed it platonically and not feed it romantically. this contrasted marinette who was trying to lie to herself that she was over adrien and overcomepensating which was not working on her end at all. people tend to dismiss his feelings for kagami in teh newyork special becuas eof his chemistry with mari...but honestly adrien was dating kagami as they kissed..and adrien being more open to getting to hang with mari made sense because she validated his feelinsg and made him feel listened to and she helped convince his dad to let him go on the field trip unlike hwo others kindof told adrien to give up and that it woudnt be so bad. but while he is drawn to mari and values her opinion...he wasnt in love of crushing on her yet...that was just wanting to get to know her better platonically becuase he got to experience he being a good friend upclose properly. its true he didnt cry after teh breakup with kagami unlike how mari did with luka....but the reason he liked being around aldybug isnt just becuase of romance...he is drawn to ladybug because she knows his goofy chat side and even if she doenst like him back romantically she makes him feel accepted as a friend even when he shows her those sides of him. the struggle there is as much as he liked kagami...he hadnt really opened up to other people very often...and hsi chat side is teh side he gets to experiemeny..so it was the scary risk of trying to open upto someone you dont know for sure withh accept you...vs hanging out with someone you know accepts you acting in a more goofy manner. people make his actiosn only about hsi crush on ladybig when it wasnt really about hsi feelings for ladybug..and more about how ladybug makes him feel like he can be accepted. when he tried to open up to kagami a bit by showing more of his chat side..kagami was right it wasnt nessarily teh vulneral\ble side...but she assumed he was goofing off...when in reality that HAD been his way to try to be vulnerable and get accepted and let her know about a different aspect of him..which kagami then shut down assuming he was messing with her. and he couldnt have a come back since he did run off and have to fight akumas as chat and he can't explain. he struggled since he did feel safer around ladybug who had no expectations from him vs kagami who he didnt know would accept him.(though people judge kagami for it ladybug has ALSO had times where she assumes chat is messing around or not being serious when he IS and she needed him to clarify properly. him backtracking into his crush on ladybug after the breakup was clearly hsi way to distract himself to cope becuase even if she didnt like him back...he could at least express himself and not risk messing things up. much like how after the breakup with luka mari used her crush on adrien to distract herself and make herself feel normal to have something to think about aside from being the guardian. but behavior wise he clearly never really thinks ladbug will change her mind. yeah he had moments before that got on her nerves like the interview and his glee at teh kiss i oblivious...but its always pointed out he was reacting to real evidence that could point to maybe him having a change(like a kiss) and that in the interview he understood and apologized. and in oblivio he did show he understood teh kiss didnt mean she liked him but that he liked taht it gave him hope that maybe she could be interested in him...something he shouldnt be ashamed of since mari also likes getting reassured or thinking she gets a chance with adrien..but unliek mari who gets support from her friends...adrien is stuck with hsi crush alone with plgg who tries to stay nuetral to not get his hopes up. in the original glacatiour he WAS pushy...however that was due to them having limited time. and teh fact he had planne d to go out with his friends meant he didn't have a big plan at first and it wouldnt have messed with her plans...the reason he got snippy wasnt about her not showing up...but because he was projecting hsi issue with hsi dad on her adn he wanted to defend his right to have feelinsg that werent convient for his dad or ladybug....something she had leaned into by bringing up the smart but insensative plan of being fake lovey dovey to defeat the akuma that reminded him she wasnt thinking that could amke him uncomfortable despite him saying he was upset earlier. and whenshe apologized he was quick to point out she did nothing wrong and he apologized himself as his issue was never about her not showing up. and he might like her...but he set up that rooftop fancy because that was heis way to rebel against his dad who assumed he would just play piano like a good boy after canceling adrien's plans with hsi friends. and while it seemed like him taking her to a movie date before..he WAS genuinely trying to distract her from her issues and cheer her up as a friend as we know she was off erh game after her breakup with luka. and in glacatiour 2.0 he was in the wrong for not noticimg she was really genuinely upset about people shipping them and playing along....but he also hasnt been able to get to akumas on time as much so him having fun with it makes sense...adn he rarely gets support for his feelings...so it made sense he would be kidnfo happy peple thought they'd make a good couple. not to mention they HAVE joked around about it before and even pretended to be a coupld to defeat glacatiour before. and he was distressed he made her uncomfortable when she told him it made hr feel ike he was dismissing her feelings and so did try destroying the billboards of them kissing to help. and he did try to shut down acting on his feelings to make her more comfortable by saying all platonic and trying to at normal...but we also know mari WASN'T actually that bothered by his feelings as she called him over to help her practice confessing to someone else(buttercup) andfelt open enough to tell him abiut her handlng her crush on well and she despite knowing his reasins for trying to act all platonic ended up advising him to knock that off. sure he gets frusterated not being included in plans later and he bought back his pictures of LB after deleting them so people could see it as backtracking...but there ARE changes in how adrien handles his crush and he HAS shown he will understand and listen to the fact she isnt interested...so i wouldnt point to him being obsessed. i mean there could be a issue that he puts more into his chat persona and je care about her opinion of him...but not just as a crush but as a friend who seems to accept him showing aspects he doesnt get to show others...it makes sense adrien would care about her opinion of him. and unlike mari he doesnt put others down incomparisoon to his crush. he saw value in kagami as a person...and unlike mari...he isnt blind to marinette and does have clear interest in her as well...and he knows ladybug's negatives that she doesnt hold back from him...unlik how she tries to hold back as civilian mari around adrien....so I dont think the show actually shows him as obssesive...the issue is that we are in mari's pov and she doesnt notice the subtle shifts in chat interactions with her. so the fandom is more likly to not notice or dismiss those changes on the surface level.

It's sad that Marinette's failure to see Adrian/Chat as a person has gotten worse, and not better. He's like her walking talking ken doll that she can obsess over, or in Chat's case being disregarded, and abused for her personal convenience. Also, yes gurl! I couldn't agree more that it's disturbing that Marri only shows interest in Chat when he acts the way his father trained him to.

The only thing I'm thinking is how did Adrien get off the roof when he renounced Plagg.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe sportiacis powers?

@dangerbuffrocky

2 жыл бұрын

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll that was my favourite show-

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

@@dangerbuffrocky It was definitely a good show! I have the theme song still stuck in my head to this day!^^

@ChasehaWing

2 жыл бұрын

Parkour!!!

@baconvideo8413

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe there was a ladder nearby that he could climb down?

I guess that is why I was not a fan of the season is because they try to address the issues in this episode but end up stumbling until the end without actually getting to the root of the problem. I think this episode should have been an episode where Chat/Adrien decides to just take a vacation for some time - letting ladybug know he is going to pull away from being a hero for a bit to think about some things and give himself space for it. And the whole episode could be about how they both realized that they were putting stress on each other - of different kinds and severity. And maybe come to a conclusion that they need to be honest about how they feel about the new roles and how they can adjust - even if they cannot fully open up yet. At least it would be better than what we got.

@AhSatan

2 жыл бұрын

This. This would've been much better.

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I wish the episode went that direction.

The urge to write an Adrigami fic where Adrien finally gets the help he needs while having Kagami by his side after this is ASTRONOMICAL.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

Жыл бұрын

I'd love that!!!!!

@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213

11 ай бұрын

Do it.

I think a more interesting end twist to the episode would be something to the effects of: Ladybug decides she doesn't have to use Catwalker in the fight, so she tells him to stand aside and he obeys. He notices she's struggling to fight, so he decides to jump in anyways and fight. Ladybug notices their syncronization in the fight, and how well they fight together. It reminds her of something, and Catwalker's natural ability to use his skills as the black cat makes her think. After the fight, they do the natural "Pound It", and she says, "Good work, Kitty." "Thank you, my la-" And Catwalker pauses, only for Ladybug to laugh. "So you've been Cat Noir all this time?" From there, they actually have a serious talk about Cat Noir feeling inadequate and they learn that despite being put to the side, Ladybug has to learn to prioritize the other miraculous users, and Cat Noir understands this. HOWEVER, she also accepts her own flaws on how she did make Cat Noir feel unimportant, and she invites him to fight alongside her next time.

@NathasyaStellaHermanus

2 жыл бұрын

THIS is what I want from this episode, honestly you should've been the one writing this episode.

16:15 I would say a more apt metaphor is "A cake doesn't stop being cake because you add some food coloring" Cause there is a slight difference between red and green grapes in taste and content. It's also apt cause cat noir is a sweetie just like cake and want to pinch his cheeks and tell him everything will work out and that he is good enough as he is. But that's opinion.

Miraculous Ladybug has so many issues from the repetitive telling us what we already know to making Chat Noir wasted potential to Marionette being the worst. If I had the Miraculous then I'd just wish the show did a whole redo -_-

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

Same here.

@blackgirlmagicc

2 жыл бұрын

I mean that show kinda has so be repetitive I see so many people criticise this constantly like we’re all forgetting the intention of the show it’s a kids show a lot of older audiences love it too but it’s primary audience is children specifically that young child aren’t likely to watch them in order it’s designed so you can plop a 6 year old in front of any episode and they’ll get it that why it has a simple format and repeated backstory which is annoying as an adult who loves the show but incredibly helpful for a child they don’t care if they repeat stuff over and over it’s helpful

@guggelguggel7491

2 жыл бұрын

Right! Like. Both Marinette and Adrien feels like wasted potential, AND THEYRE THE MAIN CHARACTERS. Nobody in the main cast should feel underutilized like that, but all of them, even the MAIN CHARACTERS. feel underdeveloped. Holy shit this show is a Trainwreck with capital T.

@sexybunnyxox

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackgirlmagicc I watch a lot of kid shows and even for a kids show it goes hard with being repetitive. And your underestimating children not picking up the endlessly repeated backstories and explaining shit.

My main problem with this episode, and most of S4, is that a lot of the story arcs they were plotting out with pretty much blocked from progressing _until_ Strikeback. Like, you could feel how much they were keeping from having Chat's grievances actually aired out until he meets Ladybug in _Strikeback._ Not even Risk, but the 2nd half of a 2 part _SEASON FINALE_ for something that could've been plotted out in bits across the 26 episodes we got. The only storyline that seemed to be allowed to exist in multiple episodes without being botched or put on pause was Alya's whole thing, WHICH WAS GOOD!!! Which only begs the question: why was everything else put on hold? Or rushed like Adrigami and Lukanette??

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly. 🤦🏾‍♀️

Series: Catnoir loving Ladybug is a problem. Me: So you are gonna adress it and fix it right? Series: ..... Me: You are gonna adress and fix it? Right?

that hurt, she fell in love with his persona that he uses for his fathers approval. wished he would let loose and not care what ladybug thought. eventually, they would fall for their differences. that would've been the better outcome.

The thing that I get annoyed from a long time is the power imbalance. Despite the ladybug and cat miraculous representing the ying and yang, it's possible that only ladybug is needed in a fight. I feel like chat noir's power could be further explored. For example, he could be the one to break the akuma while ladybug protects the butterfly. In other words, Chat Noir has the ability to neutralize other miraculous power if something wrong happened. That way, he will always be needed. Like a coach that let students run wild but prevent bad things from happen.

Yknow, I won't be surprised if Chat Noir/Adrien goes down a villainous path because his story is really similar to Anakin Skywalker Both were essentially slaves (Adrien is always under his father's grasp whilst Anakin is heavily distrusted amongst Jedi Order) Both tend to get emotional when their loved ones are involved (Chat Noir has Ladybug while Anakin has Padme) And both also tend to be sidelined when there's an important assignment coming up

Yeah, the finale of season 4 made it clear that everything (Ladybug's terrible decisions as guardian and Chat Noir's neglect) was just a setup to justify the Miraculouses being stolen. Chat Noir is left with the responsibility of picking the pieces up and (hopefully) will stand firmer in his role as a hero with Ladybug. He has no reason to apologize himself. My heart aches when looking back at Season 1 and what could have been the conflictions of Season 4 if done properly.

I agree with every single thing you've said, but I would also like to add a few more issues that stresses me in the series. To begin with, there's the ending scene in Strike Back. Just a line runied the hole episode for me. "Me, your loyal partner" like, boy, you're fucking underrating yourself. You just qualified yourself as a "partner", not as an equal. And this is something that I hate about Miraculous Ladybug and I see no people talking about it. They tell you that the power of the creation and the destruction are in harmony as both being the strongest of the powers (and that's completely fine and cohesive), but then they show us a bossy Ladybug who treats Cat Noir as a dumb assistant since the 2nd season, not even worthy to know about Master Fu and the miracle box. And the only explanation they give us is that "this series wants to show kids that women and men are equal" but at the same time idealizing Ladybug just because SHE IS A GIRL. What's my point with this? Is that the show is TOXIC, especially for kids. And I mean all the dynamics, the love square, ALL OF IT. The romance plot is another thing that leaved me thinking. So... Literally the moral is that if you act as yourself (Cat Noir) you won't be loved, but if you're handsome and famous everyone will love you even though they barely know about your private life (Adrien). And that is the best of the bad, because everyone seems to be forgetting that ADRIEN HAS LOST HIS MOTHER NOT EVEN A YEAR BEFORE, it's logic that he is depressed. And add to that the fact that his own father gashlights him. Like, man, THIS CARACHTER IS FUCKING BROKEN and they don't even give him the DEVELOPMENT WHAT HE NEEDS. I know, it's a kids show, but that makes it EVEN WORSE. What I mean is that even tough I love that they gave us PTSD, anxiety and depression-like issues, if they want to put that in the show better put it right. Idk, maybe there could be an episode where Adrien is sad about the loss of his mother, kids aren't that fragile to don't be able to handle that. Actually it would fit better with the "you don't know what you have till you loose it" trope than Kuro Neko did. And at the same time would show that it's OK to be sad, it's OK to have feelings, and that doesn't leave you as a dramatic kiddish person as soooo many people said that Adrien is after this episode. So, to summarize all this complaining mess, I think that Miraculous Ladybug is a show which has become toxic and hypocrite about it's values, making ONE of the protagonists a bossy bitch just because she's a GIRL and the other one a underrated clown boy whose feelings and mental health doesn't matter at all.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

It's so funny because I was enraged by the same topic since the end of season 3. The series told us that those two miraculouses were the most important from the miraculous box and were equals. Moreover Marinette as Adrien are said to be the two protagonists of the series. Yet Cat Noir had no evolution about his power or anything else. He was put on the side and it totally contradict their statement of Ladybug miraculous being equal to Cat noir miraculous. In the end I just accepted the fact that Thomas Astruc statement was false about those two being equals because in season 4, Ladybug became the guardian... Thus she has more "importance" for the series than Cat noir himself. The character of Adrien is really put on the side just for the sake of Marinette's character to be on the spotlight. And that's funny because it's like they're afraid that Adrien would steal her spotlight. And a certain someone said that throwing a young girl on the spotlight and drowning in the process the second protagonist, a male, is feminism... That's not what feminism stands for... So yeah I understand you about how it can be so frustrating. Yet this is the series made by Thomas Astruc and thus he could do whatever he wants with it even if the series becomes a mess because of his own ego. The series has good ideas but they are so bad at executing those ideas that it's becoming frustrating. Edit : I am very concerned about what messages they give for young children. This series had become toxic in a lot of way. They don't give a good example for children so yes I agree with you about it.

@mariasierra4009

Жыл бұрын

Avatar the Last Airbender is also a kids show and it had actual character development unlike MLB, even legend of Korra, also a show kids portrayed PTSD and depression way better than what this show is doing.

@clarisacalderon9555

Жыл бұрын

to be fair I think master fu didn't go to adrien because he is hardcore about secerts. the only reason he met mari was because tikki took her due to finding the book. master fu never revealed himself beforehand. and it was clear master fu relied more and more on mari because she knew the secert. its easier to let yourself go when a secert is out but he is stil clearly firm about secerts equal safty...something he is hardcore about even with the love of his life...which when he tried to reachout it blew up in his face and marianne had t leave for safety. so i dont think him not including adrien was personal...not to mention adrien was the onewho owns the book and mari told fu that. if chat gets included and chat mentions the book it could lead ladybug to chat's identity or adrien asking about who returned the book if he finds out ladybug had taken it to fu. and u did end up going to adrien in the end once ladybug brought it up to fu after the first time chat fully asks about fu onscreen.(siren) even if it was cutting it close. if anything it does point to some interesting ideas because plagg didnt take adrien to master fu about the book and plagg doesnt seem fond of guardians. and to be fair she IS the main character and adrien's strength IS in his support. thats not nessacarily a bad thing as it shows hw secure adrien is that it doesnt bother him to listen and follow plans. though your also right theshow isnt doing the best s=job of showingthe value in adrien's version of strength or pointing out the flaws they show us in mari are proper flaws that need to be adressed at somepoint. I actually think it might be doing a long game of showing that tikki and plagg havent really been in balance for a whiledue to the guardians. and they do make gaberiel parallels with marinette which can get interesting ifthey proper use those aspects.

Another reason this pisses me off is because it shows why Cat Noir isn’t allowed to actually think- Ladybug always has to do it (this is another kind of off topic thing about this show that frustrates me so much). So apparently, if Cat Noir actually does think, Ladybug will fall in love with him??? It’s so annoying that Ladybug is supposed to be this intelligent hero, but instead of putting her next to someone else who is capable of using their brain to emphasize the extent of her intelligence, they do the typical “make this guy character stupid so that the girl looks smarter.”

This episode would’ve been better if when ladybug said she needed a CN replacement, plagg would say “why” as she really wouldn’t need one. She continues to use other heroes but finds that she needs way more heroes to replace one CN(as you said before). That would create a much better situation, and they wouldn’t be able get around ladybug apologizing.

Finally, someone defending Marinette while acknowledging her hypocritical actions. Some defend her while not acknowledging her bad actions so thank you. I loved this episode for Plaag. I love seeing friendship moments between him and Adrien, but hate Adrien relinguishing him a lot. Stop. You two are made for each other. You are best buddies. You are hurting Plaag, the friend that stands up for you. I hate that Adrien even had to change his entire identity to please someone who does not give a crap unless the plot demands it. I do like seeing scenes where he finds a way to be needed like when he finds the cat or when he saved people outside Ladybug and her team’s plan in Strike back. I am not condoning some of his actions, but if you need to work this hard to prove yourself every season, she does not deserve you as a team member. I do agree that Ladybug just immediately being attracted to Cat Walker because he lets her lead being silent unless spoken to and being completely submissive to her just bothers me. She also yells and insults him all the time and never lets him make a suggestion or disagree with her. I am sorry. This partnership is toxic and abusive (not using it lightly).

One thing that bothers me a lot is that they keep telling us over and over again that Marinette is in love with Adrien. Shes not. She has a crush and that is it. Its evident in Ephemeral. That look she had on her face when he revealed his identity? That was her realizing that the perfect golden boy shes had a crush on isnt who she thought he was at all and it really freaked her out cause she doesnt feel that way about chat noir. She doesnt have any feelings for Adrien in reality. But that crush is why she "fell" for cat walker so easily because she has a crush on Adrien which is who cat walker reminded her of. the whole episode just felt like a bad dream and disturbed me so much. Not to mention the finale. Ofc I loved it but she never once apologized. I mean yes she broke down because of her mistake and admitted to them but she never apologized or tried to understand how chat noir was feeling. She just made it about her and he was once again the one left to make her feel better and be strong for her. I have a lot of hope that in s5 they will be able to talk and he will be able to open up to her about how depressed hes been and how much she hurt him and for her in return to apologize sincerely.

I think as some fans have said before, a lot of fault boils down to Thomas's writing style. "Marinette can do no wrong" and "Adrian oblivious haopy sunshine child". Stances he's defended and attacked people for over Twitter.

Them not knowing each others Identities in season 4 is dangerous, because if Plagg gets sick or something happens Adrien doesn't know who to go to, and we've seen people resist akumatization before, there is no reason for the whole "I lOve ladYbUg bUt whO coUld sHe bE?" thing

@frankielovejoy9928

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's like, what if Adrien or Marrinette end up in the hospital for one reason or another? They'd have no way of communicating that information to each other and they already have enough communication issues as it is. Sure, they have Tikki and Plagg to share that info, but it's just extra work to have the little floating third party creatures risk traveling across the city to deliver back and forth messages when the heroes would just reveal their identites and text each other.

@lifekindasucksrn6442

Жыл бұрын

It would be so fun to see a little short story or one-shot of Adrien asking Nino and Alya for help finding Ladybug since he knows their identities. Then Ladybug mysteriously shows up right next to Adrien like one scene later bc Alya just told Marinette, much to Adrien's confusion on how they found her so quickly.

Hopefully season 5 will be able to move on from all these issues and Ladybug will stop being such a jerk to Chat noir.

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

Highly doubtful

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

@@IsmaelCiulla Then I guess Ladybug is never getting our respect.

@IsmaelCiulla

2 жыл бұрын

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll yep

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

Let's hope...

@owlspiritpal7559

2 жыл бұрын

Well Thomas astrucks contract was for 4 years and now that it’s over there is hope he won’t use his biases to mess up the show

I honestly am truly looking forward for Miraculous to truly end for a Series Finale and after the movie because I'm looking forward on bashing It unlike any other for how horrid the show has become worst then Star Vs.'s Series Finale turned out.

@NoHandle44

2 жыл бұрын

What happened with Star. I've never watched it.

@theresivy

2 жыл бұрын

@@NoHandle44 they made it abt the ship and completely disregarded the actual plot halfway thru the series

@theresivy

2 жыл бұрын

i feel like even after Miraculous ends, thomas is gonna milk it with spin offs and reboots like Fairly Oddpparents and Spongebob Squarepants

@miss_chelles1338

2 жыл бұрын

@@theresivy oh boy.

@temmiehoi688

2 жыл бұрын

@@NoHandle44 and the end *not really spoilers* basically left on a potential cliffhanger unless they do a movie we left with more questions than answers

Anyone else hate the Super-akuma? At least LB's anti-akuma charms would've forced Shadowmoth to use non-akuma methods to get the miraculous, but willpower without drawbacks being their only requirement invalidates their whole existence. We never got backstory on how LB can apparently create PERMANENT charms that nullify the powers of another Miraculous, yet still can't stay transformed.

@thorodinson6625

2 жыл бұрын

Who knows. Maybe one day the writers are going to randomly decide that ladybug or cat noir is in a bad situation about to detransform, and then, they focus, and then, BAM! They stay transformed. All the powers in this show are random (it's awesome and annoying at the same time), so who knows. Don't expect a backstory, tho.

@Xanegoh

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention the fact that it's virtually no different from a regular akuma. All it does is break through the charms LB hands out. And yeah, they play fast and loose with the rules.

@Zephirite.

2 жыл бұрын

@@thorodinson6625 Yeah, I’ll just turn to the fans…sigh.

@Zephirite.

2 жыл бұрын

@@Xanegoh they sure do.

@mariaeduardaalexandrinooli2750

Жыл бұрын

​@@thorodinson6625no way you predicted it

I feel like the whole "Cat Noir isn't needed" thing would have worked a LOT better if it was shown that Ladybug isn't needed all the time, either. I stand by my opinion that I've held since the start that the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous BOTH needed a power like Miraculous Ladybug, that undoes anything another Miraculous had done. It's stupid that only Ladybug has that power if both of them are meant to be equals. But alas, she has to be the better of the two because she's a girl. And no that's not misogyny, that's basically what Astruc says any time he's questioned on why the Cat seems less powerful and why Adrien is sidelined all the time. Also, the whole thing with Cat Walker would have been better if the plan was to make Cat Walker overly serious, dismissive, boring, and a bad fit for the team (as in, he is never in sync with anyone). Like if Adrien based him on *Gabriel* instead of himself. It also might've helped if his character was used over multiple episodes (specifically 3 episodes). At first, LB really likes him because he reminds her of Adrien, but as time goes on, she starts to miss Cat Noir because he trusted her, listened to her ideas, and could make her laugh when she needed it, plus (very key) they were always in sync (while Cat Walker is deliberately out of sync with her). Cat Walker, meanwhile, has the attitude that he's there to protect Paris and get it over with. He's not exactly rude, he's written as more methodical and direct, especially as time wears on. He can be a little dismissive in his haste to get things done and is significantly less fun. Which at first, Ladybug really likes because she thinks that's what she wants. And I think Adrien would need to turn his thinking around as Cat Walker to make mistakes he wouldn't normally make, but surprisingly, also makes less mistakes he would usually make. Cat Walker could have been used as growth for Adrien. In the second episode of this hypothetical triology of episodes, this could have also tackled a common issue with Cat Noir by having LB talk to CW about how the last Cat holder, Cat Noir, was a great guy but working with him was hard for her because of his feelings for her. His constant advances make her uncomfortable, and she feels bad for hurting him all the time. And Adrien could internalise all of that and BACK OFF and stop being overly affectionate with her while still being himself. She could actually (because he reminds her of Adrien) trust him with more information than she's ever trusted CN with, and when CW asks "did Cat Noir know this?" and she says no, he asks why not, and she talks to CW about how she's worried about him, about Cat Blanc, and how often he gets made a victim of the akumas protecting her, so she worries that telling him will be dangerous as long as he continued to sacrifice himself so recklessly. But she can tell him because he doesn't do that. CW makes a case for telling CN, pointing out how unfair it is that other members know about things she never told CN, and how it's unfair. Calls her out, basically. In the third episode featuring Cat Walker, she really starts to miss Cat Noir because of just how *serious* Cat Walker is and how he doesn't show up when she really needed his emotional support. How Cat Noir makes her laugh. Make her realise that she does care for and need that Cat Noir, not Cat Walker. As much as she initially prefers Cat Walker, once she gets over the initial "wow he's like Adrien" part, she realises she doesn't really *like* working with him as much as Cat Noir. She mentions she wants to get the Miraculous back to Cat Noir, but isn't sure how to ask for it. Cat Walker overhears this (and Adrien is massively relieved) and approaches her acting like he didn't hear anything, stating that he doesn't think the hero business is for him, and that the "weird cat" said it was only a trial anyway. Something like that. When she sees CN again, she apologises to him for making him feel left out (something Plagg related to her) and that she now knows that Cat Noir is his chance to be himself (again, something Plagg should have told her), and while she may not always need his Cataclysm, she will always need HIM, because he's her partner. And then we do could get a few episodes where Ladybug isn't necessary to defeat an akuma. Which she arguably isn't as long as the villain has powers like Vanisher, Animan, The Mime, Prime Queen, Despair Bear, Troublemaker, Gigantitan, Gorizilla, or anyone else whose powers are more external rather than just a physical change or ability (causing people and objects to vanish or mass mind control, for example, would need Miraculous Ladybug, but passing through screens doesn't). As long as Anima, Gigantitan, and Gorizilla don't cause any damage, the Miraculous Ladybug power isn't needed. Any damage caused by the others I named can just be like... taken care of manually. Like Vanisher, for example, could have been completely solved by Cat Noir on his own if he just grabbed a fountain pen from the front desk and covered her in ink. The main problem I have with Cat Walker is how rushed his existence is. I think he's a great idea, but like 90% of everything in the show, underutilised and poorly handled. Like I said, I think using him as growth for LADYBUG was wrong, he should have been used as growth for ADRIEN, and Ladybug's development is limited to being a more compassionate leader.

@nicholasrodinos4701

2 жыл бұрын

I mean the Rooster Miraculous probably could theoretically fix everything, considering that 'Miraculous Ladybug' is a power.

@user-dk3lg9np6p

2 жыл бұрын

Zag needs to hire you as writer for this show

18:46 yeah adrien told lb that she was right twice in this episode.... she wasnt

Rules of Miraculous Ladybug and Chat Noir : Marinette is god, Marinette can never make a mistake, If she makes a mistake, she can't face consequences.

9:38 the way the writers wrote this script made it sound like this “ugh why do I have to be so likable it’s NOT MY FAULT that chat noir is in love with me why do I have to be so smart beautiful amazing” blah blah blah you get the point but if it where the opposite and marinette was madly Inlove with someone *AHEM* adrien *AHEM* she would be getting so much love and support and would be told how amazing she is and the audience would sympathize with her and she would be so sad like in an episode I don’t remember which but yeah

But… in the end, she didn’t need to use “cat walker”, WHICH *STILL,* does not solve the *actual* problem, he was ignored so he left, and in the end he was ALSO still kinda ignored so like… HUH??

How much better would this have been if instead Cat Walker was instead Felix just to show difference (and also have Felix learn Adrian is cat noir) and set up how Felix has his reasons later when he does strike back.

Honestly my biggest complaint with this episode is how quickly they take back cat walker and this issue is resolved so sloppily and hastily. The show doesn't understand how to drag out plots and give their watchers tension. For example, adrian and Marinette being with luca and kagami was erased in two episodes when this should of been a season lasting drama filled plot. Instead we get scenes that 'fast-forward' what should of been going on through out the season. In other words they used show don't tell...but extremely poorly. Same thing with chat noir but backwards, we don't use show don't tell...but it's dragged on for the entire season and isn't resolved. it's like the writers didn't know what they wanted to do. Because they've managed to do show dont tell extreamely well in one episode then poorly the next. And the pacing is even worse because some plots are dragged out for far longer then needed and then important plot points are literally resolved in 2 episodes if not 1.

@izzy1356

2 жыл бұрын

And not only all of this, but they had the gall to bring this issue up *again* in Strikeback too. And then sweep it under the rug. *Again.* After they had insisted up-and-down that Kuro Neko was the last episode this conflict would exist in... leading to people getting annoyed it's *still* popping up. It's like they're dangling both the resolution to this conflict, and the reveal, over our heads for amusement now. And forgetting that those are why people are still attached to this show.

@vampybyte7812

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention most of these plots seem like fan fics that the writers are reading and then creating diet versions of. Chat blanc and the theory of adrien being a sentimonster being the BIGGEST hint of this. If your going to write any kind of story, at least have it planned out better then this? I get it, it's a kid show and was very episodic in nature at first and still is to a degree. But good grief i've seen better writing in kids shows before. WINX for crying out loud had better writing planned out and it also had the con of getting too episodic or too bland as the seasons went on. They can't seem to make up their minds if they want to actually move on with the plot or be as kiddy as possible. Another animated show I like to bring up is code lyoko because it has the same idea of pre-teens/ teens being super hero's but also struggling with everything else....and it does it better. that show also got episodic but it always tried to stay on plot and wouldn't jerk it's viewers back and forth.

@izzy1356

2 жыл бұрын

@@vampybyte7812 Ironically Astruc storyboarded 3 episodes on Code Lyoko too (the teddygodzilla and Ulric's Diary ones off the top of my head) so you'd think he would've used his prior experience on that for Miraculous.

Terrible writing aside, I feel like mlb video essays like this are great for writers who want to learn about story structures. I’ve learned so much about what not to do from this show

they did adrien dirty. real dirty. and im not just saying this because i like him as a character.

Bro, it makes me think how much Ladybug doesn't deserve the partner she has. He is reliable, helpful and above all responsible. Even after being rejected several times, he let it go to remain a great hero, but seeing how he is treated in this ep, I think Marinette has a very strange view of our feline hero. I would love to see in another situation (another universe) her having a more irresponsible Cat Noir who puts her foot on the table when the situation calls for it instead of our poor Adrien.

@quietopinion9637

2 жыл бұрын

So we gonna forget how he almost killed Scarabella?? And Syren???

@lobaoguara2332

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 Blame the script, Chat Noir is just a shadow of the hero he once was.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

@@lobaoguara2332 So true... I have enough with the love drama ! When Cat Noir will have a character evolution without any romance centred ? When Cat noir/Adrien will have a character development on his own ? So fed up with this series...

@RodrigoSilva-cy4no

2 жыл бұрын

@@quietopinion9637 cataclysm can’t kill miraculous holders

i feel like they forgot the whole plot with the miraculous... Ladybug and Cat Noir are the crime fighters, the only time Ladybug is ment to have more miraculous holders is when the duo can't do it by themselves, that's the whole point of why she went to the old guardian and he would say "Choose wisely" because you SHOULDN'T be having so many of them out especially when it isn't needed. the baby could've been stopped with just the bee miraculous.

@craigpeoples9883

Жыл бұрын

Oh good point

I agree full heartedly. When I first saw the trailer for the episode, I was excited because it was such an amazing idea. Chat Noir being replaced and finally addressing the way he was being ignored, I was so excited. Except, I forgot how poorly this show is written and was extremely disappointed when it aired. At the time I didn't realize exactly why I hated the episode so much but it was definitely due to the show trying to make their main character perfect. And of course the way they swept all of it under the rug at the end of the episode. Thank you for listening to my rant.

Her only liking him when he's acting as his 'abuser-proof' persona rather than himself leaves a bad teste in my mouth, and I'm pretty sure the creators won't ever acknowledge it

The main thing I hated in this episode was the fact that this was a repeat for longer from the New York special. How many times does Adrien have to give up Cat Noir for her to understand that he need to be communicated with and that it's not because he's in love with her only, it's because he is struggling mentally. Also the fact that it seems they forgot that when someone "renounces" a miraculous it's supposed to make them loose all memory of having one? Why is that forgotten by the creators that they do it a second time with a completely different character? It doesn't make sense. I love Miraculous but the creators are really just forgetting everything they wrote previously and when it's pointed out they have to give a bs excuse in the show as to why things happened the way it did. This show would be 10 times more amazing if they didn't contradict, or rewrite why things happen after it's already happened....like did they seriously not at least rewatch what they already put our before they wrote more? Like I know this was supposed to be a kid show at first but then they realize teens and adults liked it so they started making it for teens, so you THINK they would at least make it make sense.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

Even kids doesn't deserve this.That's rude for children. It's like we are saying what they are watching is not even worth to be consistent because it's for kids. Even kids deserve a good series with actual consistency. Not this mess that is Miraculous. Moreover I do agree with what you said about miraculous... This series really contradict itself, it's insane.

@beesbakery4116

2 жыл бұрын

@@coldbutsweet9748 Yes exactly. I love the show but it treats it's audience that they KNOW are mainly teens and adults like were idoits, I hate it

@lifekindasucksrn6442

Жыл бұрын

It's not when they renounce a miraculous they lose their memory, it's when they renounce being guardian. Gabriel had to renounce his miraculous a couple times to get himself akumatized.

The appropriate response to 'he should be happy to have more free time' is 'did you ask him?' Seriously plagg seriously.

This episode literally shows why Adrinette could and will never work out. Marrinette doesn't love Adrien, she loves the persona Adrien puts on, not the real him. She's not in love with Adrien, but the idea of him, a perfect, serious, kind, handsome guy

@kingredacted

Жыл бұрын

Yeah yeah, now watch the newer episodes and the writers reversed the roles... Adrien likes Marinette and Marinette likes cat noir... that's kind of dumb

Whats rlly sad abt Miraculous is how it has a butt TON of potential, but in the end its just reduced to shipping bait with no regards to whether or not the plot is good at all (like RWBY). You know a series is bad when literal fanfiction made by their fandoms are better than the canon story. Also, i cant help but feel like the way Adrien styled Kuro Neko’s hair looks as if he has a receding hairline

what bothers me about this show is that the concept is so good and so much could be done with it. I just think the characters aren't fleshed out enough/at all/ or in an accurate way. I just wish the writing would make more sense

This episode could've been way better if Cat walker was a different holder....An inexperienced holder that messes up everything...that way ladybug wouldn't have a crush on he'll be gone that same episode and it still gets the "you don't know what you have until it's gone" message...

0:59 I find it funny how she cannot reveal herself to chat noir because if she gets akumatized hawk moth knows who both chat and ladybug is but it's given no thought that Alya has the same case, it's over for Marinette when Alya gets akumatized again, since hawk moth will know who she is and won't stop for nothing, that would be a really interesting concept if the characters didn't have 50 peices of plot armor

I feel like this episode really prove the fact that Marinette will never truly have a romantic relationship with Adrian because she doesn’t love Adrian for who he really is Adrian at his true self is cat noir he felt like he needed to be a different person to even get her to know knowledge him and even that was too much for her because he acted exactly how he did whenever he is Adrian in front of his friends and his father but that’s not the real him and she still fell for him but not for him I feel like at this point this episode is clearly the breaking point where everyone should have realize that this ship was never going to happen and if it did it would be the most irritating thing to ever break the Internet how can you love someone if you only know 20% of them the real Marinette is the Marinette we see whenever she’s not a hero sure ladybug and Marinette are one in the same person but ladybug is who Marinette wants to be not who she is Adrian it’s everyone wants him to be but can’t worry is who he truly is they both like a part of themselves that doesn’t exist although Adrian loves both and only sees Marinette as a friend whenever she is her true self he likes the confident ladybug so whenever he truly is himself as cat noir and she doesn’t like him that way but only likes Adrian and cat walker because they’re basically the same person just shows that their relationship is just nonexistent

@lazyblackcat16

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry if this is way too long to read. Basically Marinette likes Adrian for who he acts like an expression to be by society. but doesn’t like cat noir who is his real self this is once again proven by the fact that she fell for cat walker. clearly proving how shallow she truly is Adrian likes the The real Marinette as a friend he likes ladybug. but ladybug isn’t who Marinette is it so she wants to be a person who is confident that’s literally the only difference. he doesn’t really have a real relationship with the real Mirna because she’s so awkward around him she can’t talk to him at all. the ship has crashed and burned in this episode just proved it if they do end up together in the end it’s never going to feel real.

At first I read the episode as Ladybug realising Cat Noir was being more professional while having a crush than she would be. I do agree it’s not fun her falling exclusively for his repressed side. When it’s Felix there’s at least the excuse no matter what he does she thinks it’s Adrien.

Miraculous is an incredibly wordy show, but I actually think part of the problem is that it's an artifact of the execs being worried that if the writing becomes more serialized, casual audiences may not have the context they need to understand episode plots unless exposition is thrown into every scene where lore knowledge is necessary to understand character motivations, frex Ladybug and Plagg explaining to each other why she and the black cat miraculous holder can't know each other's secret identities, even though both characters in the scene and the audience should already know why. Luckily, the show IS getting progressively more serialized anyway, so hopefully the needless exposition dumps will let up and scenes can be allowed to play out more naturally in the next season, considering that with the setup the finale gave us, episode chronology is going to be more important now than it's ever been in past seasons. Regarding the conflict in Kuro Neko though, it's definitely true that the show avoids blaming Ladybug for things even though her dismissal of Chat Noir is a big part of the problem. The problem is framed as Chat realizing that he shouldn't demand special treatment from her just because he's in love with her, which is a good message, but it ignores the fact that him being upset with being demoted in the team and constantly kept out of the loop without explanation is perfectly reasonable outside of that. Ladybug is completely overwhelmed with her new role as Guardian, is bad at communicating this or recognizing when she needs to lean on others for support, doesn't recognize the emotional needs of her teammates, and is avoiding confronting the trauma she's associated with Chat because of Chat Blanc, and won't talk to him about it or anything else. Chat, however, is not completely faultless either. To be fair to him, he makes a much better effort of trying to communicate these issues to her, but gets ignored. He has every right to be upset about it, but because being Chat Noir is literally his only emotional outlet, he doesn't react well to getting sidelined and overreacts when he nearly gives up being Chat over the problem. Him completely abandoning the role so suddenly is shown to cause major problems for Ladybug and by extension, the safety of Paris. Deceiving her by pretending to be a different person was also an unhealthy attempt at a solution to the problem too, but that was more Plagg's idea than Adrien's. I don't think the show was wrong for making him apologize to her at the end of the episode, because he _was_ partially at fault. The thing is, she was too, which the episode ignores. At least it's addressed in Strike Back.

@AuraleafStorm

2 жыл бұрын

@@Raya-ir4tm I did acknowledge that Ladybug made mistakes and Chat Noir is completely justified in being fed up with her lack of communication. But it's been explained why it's too dangerous for the black cat and ladybug miraculous to ever be owned by a single person, and Chat quitting so suddenly forced Ladybug into that exact position. If Shadow Moth had akumatized Marinette while she was in possession of both, that would have been it; the world would have ended. Chat can't be absolved of the responsibility the black cat holder inherently has just because he feels like he's being ignored. It's true that Ladybug being the Guardian creates a power imbalance between her and Chat now, but it's not a power imbalance that Ladybug _chose_ - it's a position that was thrust upon her very suddenly, and it's one that bares more responsibility than any teenager can be expected to handle well. Of course she's struggling and making mistakes and mismanaging the team - there wouldn't be a story if she wasn't. Ladybug and Chat Noir are supposed to be partners, but she's been keeping him more and more at arm's length - because she's under a lot of pressure and struggling to manage both the team and her own time properly, because she's seen the consequences of what might happen if her and Chat's relationship ever missteps the wrong way (Chat Blanc), because he won't stop making advances towards her even though she's turned him down gently numerous times before and is understandably getting fed up, and because she dislikes the way the media has been sensationalizing their relationship. He's her friend, and she cares about his feelings. But she doesn't have time to think about everything. So she neglected him, and yes, that was a mistake, but she wasn't trying to make him feel bad, she just didn't prioritize things properly. It's also important to note that she is naturally not privy to his home life, so she doesn't understand how much of an emotional outlet being Chat Noir is for Adrien. Chat Noir feeling pushed aside was part of the story the writers wanted to tell this season, alongside Ladybug's struggles with being a leader - but the writers have not neglected him, and if anything, the season 4 finale cemented just how important he is. Their dynamic has finally been reset to what it originally was: a partnership, and Ladybug is finally starting to realize just how much she can rely on him - that she doesn't need to do it all by herself.

11:48 "He will feel better by the end, he's an Agresete" THE AUDACITY

I feel like the creator’s ambition and ideas for miraculous exceed their skill. They clearly have an interesting concept, based on how many people watch the show and want it to be better; but they seem to fumble the execution with character development being all over the place, the plot taking one step forward and two steps back every time something important happening and their seeming inability to effectively juggle an ensemble hero group without having most of them turn up just not do anything of importance. There are fan fics that have more consistent characterisation and sensical plot than the canon the actual creators are giving us. At times it feels like the creators haven’t planned anything out and are just making it up as they go along

I haven’t seen the entire video but I can tell you for a fact that I agree. Kuro neko made me sick with its terrible writing

Gaslighting- the episode!

I wish that instead of her replacing cat noir she went a few days without him, and struggled multiple times with monsters without him

absolutely insane that the writers made Ladybug's attraction to Catwalker a problem bc he's 'too perfect' and would throw her off her game, meanwhile Chat Noir has been head over heels for Ladybug since the jump, and if he's ever distracted that's a problem that'll never really be addressed. in fact, it'll be rewarded in the end when they 'become' canon. for all of astruc's claims that this show supports women, Marinette's attraction to Adrien is constantly getting her in trouble meanwhile Chat Noir is allowed to be vocal abt his unrequited love for ladybug and have it be reinforced by everyone around him including HER MOTHER. this show is a trainwreck and i hate that i can't stop keeping tabs on it

@guggelguggel7491

2 жыл бұрын

YES. GOD. Chat flirts with Ladybug, even in a fight when he probably could reel it back to fight? Stoping the akuma? Fighting to protect paris? Aka his job? But even four seasons in, he hasn't learnt that lesson, and he barely gets slapped on the wrists for it. Whenever Marinette tries to flirt with Adrien, the writers hammer in how stupid and useless her endavor is nad goes out of its way to humiliate her for "comedy". Also she still low-key stalks Adrien, despite the shows insistance on "teaching her a lesson" every goddamn episode?? Even for flaws she barely has (irresponsible? If anything she takes on too much responsibility! This girl gonna get burnout!)? Making her actual flaws continue to fester?? Also! The show really don't like Marinette actually trying to make a move on Adrien, (constantly leading to humiliation and not letting their relationship progressing despite it being Four Goddamn Seasons and Something should've happened since) yet they're like. The main pairing? The show is about their relationship??? Why work against yourself?? A lot of people who like Adrien but not Marinette feels like the kinda sorta stalking is a deal breaker, and a bunch people who roots for Marinette feels like Adrien is not worth it cos he's oblivious and any of her approaches leads to embarrassment. *Half the fanbase doesn't like the MAIN SHIP.* That, if anything, should convince you the writers don't give a fuck.

@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213

11 ай бұрын

Writers seem to smoke crack on a daily basis

I feel like whatever was in charge of writing this episode had no idea how to properly show what he was trying to tell

Fans: Marinette never apologizes after hurting her friends by being insensitive, that’s so annoying! Thomas Astruc: Please, Marinette can’t apologize, she is smarter than everybody and she is always right!

Let's be honest. Marinette is 14 yo obssesed with a model, who she doesn't even truly know except for, he is a nice guy, he gave me an umbrella and he is handsome. There's so many red flags about her being just a horrible person BUT they want to make her into Mary Sue for some goddam reason. She has awesome parents, she has awesome house and friends, nice teachers, she has a hobby that she is good at. There's nothing that could make her a good hero. Good hero knows how is it to lose something, what they fight for. They went often through hell to show that they are a good leader. And she? Being bossy and rude to Cat who literally "died" for her a couple of times and rest treating her like a goddess for giving them miraculous or having a good heart. Even Bunny as adult sees her 14 yo version as somebody to look up for. Like, WHAT. No character growth was shown even once, even when they tried to. How can you say that somebody who has unhealthy obssesion with imaginning children with a model at the age of 14 and being literally a creep and breaking into his house, following him is a good example? And her love? She fell somebody who just was a servant to her, like what. She has just superiority syndrome and the only thing she didn't like about Chat is that he is not just a pawn, since they got miraculous equally. Oh, and the fact that he is having a sense of humor she doesn't like. So she thinks that he can't be serious about anything, it took her ages to realise that his love to her is pure. She is just toxic af.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Thank you!

@sreekari6783

2 жыл бұрын

@Rose 51 16**

@sreekari6783

2 жыл бұрын

Ever since the stalking thing she pulled, the climbing over the brick fence, and the smelling of his pillow/breaking thing, I just can not get myself to relike Marinette. I did like her as Ladybug until she started replacing Cat Noir because of Cat Blanc which was HER FAULT and which SHE ENABLED by sneaking into Adrien's house, and going through his things/sleeping and smelling his stuff, and treating him like a pest than a partner. Sure, she doesn't know who leaked the information but what was the reason for sneaking in as Ladybug. That's just dangerous. Even if Adrien wouldn't tell anyone, for anyone who did not know, it could be possible for Ladybug to come to reason that someone saw her jumping into his window.

@clarisacalderon9555

Жыл бұрын

I mean she was bullied by chloe for years and only really stood up fo herse;f after alya helped show her the way. so its not like things have been sunshine and rainbows for her either you know. and it has beenconfirmed that her favorite part about chat is his sense of humour. and in her defense chat did joke around alot back then and he never corrected her that he was serious about his flirting until glacatiour. he played along with what she thought was reality in copycat so how was she suppoused to know? and based on how she reacted with her crush where she struggles to say things...it makes sense for her assume his ease meant his feelings werent that serious til he properly spelled it out to her.

@rose516

Жыл бұрын

​@@clarisacalderon9555 yeah she was bullied but in the meantime all of her other classmates liked her. She was mostly getting angry over the bullying because Chloe like Adrien tbh. And Chat confessed and tried for a longer period of time and she literally was telling him that he's not serious, even though he was joking a lot around her he sacrificed himself and trusted her 100% at all times. And those facts don't change that she's still weird and obsessed and privileged in her life

When this show is over, I hope someone will create a new version of this but better and it makes sense

Who even writes the script for this god forsaken show at this point!?

This show somehow has that worst issues of svtfoe and steven universe had. Not many spoilers but in steven universe there is sooo much time wasted over nothing. The show has so many episodes and it is entertaining but plot moves so slowly. i think fans are carry the show and so many things has already predicted by them. And in star vs the forces of universe there was so many plothole, problematic and forced ship dynamic kinda ruin the show. I like how Marco&star friendship and tom&star relionship. These are only my thougts of course i don't have a problem shipping starco, my problem is that they being literally forced with the formula "they meant to be"

Great video. Love your "Cat Noir" design.

Solution to the problem of Cat Noir's feelings for Ladybug: him learning not to try and respect boundaries and that he's not entitled to anyone. Solution to Marinette's Adrien problem: same thing, also stalking is a crime.

@clarisacalderon9555

Жыл бұрын

didnt he learn that in frozer though? and he did genuinely try to move on with kagami so i dont think he feels entitled by this point

Wow. This video feels like watching my own thoughts being spoken out loud. Well done.

Plagg yelling at Ladybug is beautiful. And I need more of it!

What I can’t get over is them literally proving she doesn’t like Adrien for who he actually is because she clearly had romantic feelings for kero neko and if she didn’t I can’t understand why they implied it??

FallenGale. I owe you an apology. Your only giving your thoughts. And I was bit too harsh to your critics in the past. So I deeply apologize. You really make valid points here.

It's really funny that in making it so Marinette is Never Wrong, to try and make her more likable and relatable, the writers only succeed in making her the exact opposite for the viewers.

@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaBunnydoll

2 жыл бұрын

Yep!

FINALLY found someone talking about this damn episode. The lack of resolution, the victim blaming and apologizing, ladybug being so frustratingly ignorant, someone finally put it into proper words i couldn't sort out fully lmao, good vid!

Hey FallenGale. I'm not trying to be rude. But there's some haters in the comment section. Quiet opinion, LexiSama and Kapatin. And they are saying very nasty and vile things. If you can. Please report their comments.

I felt that this episode highlighted the fact that Marinette is not in love with Adrien but the idea of Adrien, which is further highlighted in the season 4 finally. To me Cat Noir is Adrien being his true self, the persona that he put into becoming Cat Walker was that same one he uses every day to please his father and is the persona that Marinette is in love with, and if someone else acts that way and happens to resemble Adrien then she falls over herself like any other lovesick girl.

What did I learn? Every time I'm nervous about making my next story I'll always point and laugh at miraculous. While yes, it has its moments (And trust that's a miricle) it's just impressively horrible.

I drop my hat here because this is exactly what I've been feeling all along. I completely agree with your thought and how you expressed them. This episode had huge problems in writing choices and understanding which were the intentions. Different views and lessons that didn't fit together mixed in different lines of the story and all the past points for this episode and resolution it was supposed to bring, were ignored. The episode just ended with Adrien accepting his condition, suppress his feelings and accept it was his exaggeration in being mistreated. With the illusion of a message of self-acceptance, what was demonstrated is that he needs to shove down any self-care thought with the excuse of caring about himself. Which is basically what he does with his father? The implications and similarities between his bond with Ladybug (And how Marinette views him when he is Adrien) and Gabriel are kind of shady and under the Ladynoir aspect it's treaten like something normal. Like if it's supposed to be so. As long as he is satisfied with himself he can be mistreated by others because it doesn't matter. Even if he isn't just a partner that was supposed to be an equal, but also as friend (which Ladybug addressed him as once). This also reduces any attempt they would make to write a good lesson for Adrien. He is not learning to appreciate himself, which he would need, but just accept that all his feelings can either be reduced to romantic love and for it he is in the wrong, just like he always is for wishing for more respect. Ladybug never showed guilt for treating him like that, and when she realised she didn't apologise. Neither here or the finale. Never in the season we got glimpse of her remorse for putting him at arm's length or for being traumatized and acting (of course against her desires) to protect him. If not by one scene before this episode in the episode Sentibubbler. In her answers to his doubts in Hack-San she made an empty promise that realistically she can't make, without considering that just like he could lose her, she could lose him suddenly. We are told they're equals, that she considers him so and that she cares, that she thinks he is irreplaceable, that she is traumatized and acts out of compassion for him, that she would like to involve him in her life even as friend, but all we are shown instead gives otherwise. With her dreaming only once about Chat Blanc and not seeing her affected by it on regular basis, without showing her missing including him more, with her assuming it's all about his romantical feelings for her (which is supported often by the writers), with degrading him without telling him, hiding basic information he should know for his security or even because it's just fair to him as partner, not even explaining why the only hero that was found only by him and not HawkMoth (Multimouse) wasn't called back, not pressing for him to talk, not even wanting to speak to him about her substitute without Alya pressuring for it, forcing out his secret identity and manipulating his desires and trust to get someone else know who he is and never even try to just explain to him, never wondering about his identity or wishing to know it, never showing urge to defeat HawkMoth to finally be able to include him in her life even if just platonically, throwing him in a trashbin, not showing despair or sadness over him leaving (aside NY which thought didn't seem to influence the series), doing everything to keep the new partner in place, not apologising for her treatment even after realising and admitting it, falling in love the perfection... In this episode, she tried everything to make Catwalker work, not even because she didn't want to make him feel excluded like Chat Noir (otherwise it would mean she did realise indeed before this episode how she acted and knew it was wrong but just didn't care or didn't want to admit it), but because she liked him as a partner. We never got an explanation on why Chat is the better half of the team and holder of the black cat. We are told it's better the imperfection, but never the reason. We are told Ladybug prefers Chat Noir as partner when she fell so easily for the perfect one and did everything to keep him by her side. She was willing to make a lucky charm meant only for her, to work with him all to not facing that Chat Noir is a better fit. And this without saying why he is the better fit. We are told he is supposed to be one of her first worries, but shown he is between the least. At least as person. The storyline of LB siding Chat and angst rising from it, it's actually a very good idea, but the execution and the intentions behind it are just disastrous.

@coldbutsweet9748

2 жыл бұрын

I have to thank you because it's literally what I feel about this topic and you put it beautifully into words. The praise for the original content is truly deserved but I feel like you should also be praised with the way you explained your thoughts about the series. If it was not already clear I totally agree with you. The intention as the way they executed everything was a mess. Frankly... it was terrible. The inconsistency was truly accurate and as Gale told it well in this video, your comment is accurate too. In the end what was the point of all of this ? I still applaud the effort and passion of the people who are working on miraculous yet the series keeps falling...

The idea of Adrian being given a miraculous like others in their class is actually super interesting: it’s a shame this is how they handled it

I swear if Hawkmoth doesn't win I don't know why I will do. Also, I hate how Marinette is the guardian of the miraculous now because she just hands them out to people she likes personally, not because she sees potential in them or even thinks they're capable enough. At this point I want Adrien/Cat Noir to be the main character, not Marinette/Ladybug. 😑

I agree They don't show us how catnoir is unreplacable because they potray him as dump and incompetent They make ladybug overpowered and him with just one power while she has three powers Catwalker was actually more competent than catnoir He was more focused and doesn't flirt or waste time They just made ladybug look like an idiot because catwalker is too perfect so they can bring catnoir back where ladybug is the competent one and the cooler one