The “don’t write experiences that are not not your own” crowd scares me. It scares me because we have come to see writing as an inherently capitalist activity, which is, ironically, the opposite message we give to aspiring writers. It’s not about not writing an experience you yourself are not familiar with. It’s about the publishing industry prioritizing white writers over non white writers when it comes to delivering “diverse” stories; overpaying them, and over promoting them. Writing, the activity, is an introspective activity that all do in some way. Writing about characters and situations you don’t know will put you in the shoes of characters and situations new to you, forcing you to do due research and learn new things. Not all writing will end up being published nor should it be. People who complain because white writers are writing diversity wrong often forget that writing is a learning process, that being anti-racist IS an active process, that we should better focus on the racist system in place in the industry that allows this white authors to succeed while silencing non-white authors. And overall, we need to show the industry non-white writers and their stories sell. We do that by supporting them and their books.

@jessatlife

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter with every single experience, of course. But when those experiences they're writing about belong to groups that are currently oppressed / marginalized / silenced by their governments and mass media constantly, yes, it matters. For instance, I don't want a white American author to write about the natural disaster that happened in my country in 2017, and its aftermath, because those same people have, not only minimized the tragedy, but already got a lot of the facts wrong, anyway, and without any apparent interest in correcting themselves. I'd rather someone who was there wrote about it, and showed the world a more accurate and personal account of such an important event in the lives of millions, myself included. I think the problem lies in assuming that every author cares or is capable of having empathy regarding the experiences they're writing about, when a lot of them just want to capitalize on a hot topic or seem more "woke", because again, capitalism. True empathy is very difficult to have, unless you've gone through a similar experience yourself. Best case scenario, that author can support another who actually identifies with said experiences and lift their voice (#ownvoices movement). Second best case scenario, maybe, the writer could at least get sensitivity readers to validate they're getting things right. If they actually care, they'll try either of these things.

@887frodo

3 жыл бұрын

@@jessatlife you are parting from the assumption that people lack sympathy. Or that we are not talking about a capitalist market. We are not talking about writing. We are talking about publishing and the inherent problems with the industry. Furthermore I do want writers to write about the gay experience, the Hispanic experience, minorities experiences. Writing is an introspective process. I trust they will find themselves and others through it. And if they fail then we call them out with some constructive criticism and they will change for the better of they want to. And if they don’t want we don’t have to support them nor do we have to keep silent about how badly their work represents the minorities in it. Creating something of social criticism is hard. We don’t all get it right on the first try. It’s important we are open to steer people who are trying to a better direction. Furthermore, I don’t want to live in a world where social issues are redlined and tackled only by those within. The goal is normalizing and bringing these issues to the mainstream. Yes, you are right on the steps writers can take to boost diverse voices. And they should take them. But doing one things won’t take away from doing another.

@verybarebones

3 жыл бұрын

@@jessatlife i think we do a disservice to any pro equality movement when we stereotype every single person within a given race/group. Has every white author fucked up representing that event you mention? Or have a handful of them done so and made you pass judgement on the remaining millions that have yet to prove themselves? We should judge everyone for their actions. I'd have to see what they write, and how. Im not white american but im just as likely to fuck up writing about that event you mention, too, because i dont even know what it is. And if someone wrote a fantastic book on the topic, would their race turn it into a bad book?

@halofornoobs93

Жыл бұрын

@@jessatlife The problem with this is with that kind of gatekeeping you end up with stories that just end up never getting told because people felt someone didn't have the right to do so.

@graciekattan6618

3 ай бұрын

I really appreciate your comment because recently I just wrote a story for me creative writing class, and my main character was a black man from the 1920’s. Quite honestly I regret going for that theme, especially because it seems to be controversial for someone not black like myself, to write a story that involves the black experience. Unfortunately we had workshop in that class and I shared it already during workshop, and so I have to use that story for my final but I definitely started to regret doing that. But I didn’t mean harm in it. I just found inspiration from a blues singer from the 1920’s and wanted to write an imaginary story based on him. I also thought writing was a creative process where anything can be what you want (of course not doing anything to be offensive) but I got feedback from one girl in my class that made me regret my story. But I’m glad to see some people say it’s okay to write from different perspectives with understanding. Writing is a process and I think it can be a good tool to put ourselves in others shoes. I don’t feel like it’s impossible like the person below you commented.. but of course we can never fully experience it ourselves so it’s different with first hand experience.. but still that doesn’t mean we can’t have any empathy with things we’ve never experienced

There was definitely a trend a few years ago where white readers were calling on white authors to add diverse characters into their books but these readers wouldn't make an effort to find diverse authors to read.

@leahdarski

3 жыл бұрын

This bugs the CRAP out of me because they're just putting the work on others instead of actively diversifying their reading material 🙄 I know because this used to be me 🤦🏻‍♀️

@Sophia-vk5th

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Like I love the idea of a fantasy word set in a sort of middle aged world where there is a black ruler/royalty, but speaking in terms of historical royal events, like REAL events, there were no black rulers (or even people) in that part of europe during the Middle Ages, sometimes it makes sense to not add diversity into a story especially a historical one. But a fantasy world or modern would definitely work

@yassine8935

10 ай бұрын

Imma be real his argument us weird to me , bc why not have both? Read black and non white authors and white authors can also diversify their books . It's the sane thing with media I Intentionally look out for bipoc creators on media because they usually have better diversity I their media , but hay doesn't mean I'm still not gonna be mad when bobs burger a show thats been running g for bout a decade now only has 5 black characters in the whole show , two things can exist at once we can ask for better diversity and read/watch more bipoc stories from bipoc creators . Also it's not that much of a surprise ppl would be asking for diversity in the white creators stories more times since they get way more boost in media and financial backing than bipoc creators/stories

@vapx0075

Ай бұрын

You gotta start somewhere.

A message for white authors from a BIPOC author: If you wish to include diversity in your novel, it's always a good idea to do research and reach out to people from marginalized groups such as BIPOC, the LGBTQ+ community, Muslims, etc. for feedback. Also, it is ALWAYS important to avoid stereotypes at all costs. I'm African American, South Asian, and LGBTQ+ and I'm already developing a fantasy novel with a predominately South Asian cast and some of the characters are biracial.

I am a young white person writing a cast of characters who are all POC. While the story is set in a fantasy world, each culture and area in the world is inspired by a real life culture or area, so while I don’t NEED to give a very accurate representation, I still really want to. I want to show the inspirations and make them a highlight because I love world-building and cultural studies, but most of all because I want to show the proper respect. While the world will play a major part of the story, I don’t want to lean entirely on the world. I want to look at interpersonal relationships, conflict of perspectives, many other things alongside culture and heritage. I hope I can get it right, or at least as right as anyone attempting this can be. But I find that I hesitate to publish the work in any way. Beyond just being nervous, I would hate to be praised for diversity by anyone while many POC authors are being neglected, ignored, or otherwise unheard. It’s rather unfair, and I feel like I would just be profiting off of a culture that is not my own.

"when you put yourself in a position to tell another person's story what privileges will you have over those people, the people you're actually writing about?" GO OFF

I agree, i think anyone can write any character they like, but occasionally we get bad writers drawing bad caricature characters based on their own limited knowledge of other cultures or background that reduces people to stereotypes. I say you can write any character as long as you do a great job as an author. Adding character to your book for the sake of quota is crazy. You should your story, not quota story. Good fiction comes from a deeper recess of human consciousness so on a deeper level you get to write a human story. Great video!

@booksaremysociallife

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I agree! And that's one thing I didn't touch on as much, tokenistic/forced diversity.

@robinirie98

3 жыл бұрын

I think people deserve to have a chance to get things wrong. As a black man, I get annoyed when we moan about representation in people's story then complain that the people writing them aren't black. Also, the inverse would be: can a POC (I detest that term) write a white character?

@Fiction_Beast

3 жыл бұрын

@@robinirie98 i agree, we all should be able to get things wrong and when we are criticised, graciously accept our mistakes and move on. I think the more restriction on what you can and can't say or write, the more misunderstanding and underground resentment will grow. The current discourse is mostly run by extremists who shout the loudest on all sides. the majority of people are quite reasonable, i think.

@AnxietyRat

3 жыл бұрын

As a lesbian, myself, If a straight writer can write about the gay experience which is something they personally have not experienced... I don't see an issue with them writing about other life experiences they have never had. Just like every genre of book... It might not be GOOD but there are plenty that are good! But yeah, there will be terrible ones as well. That's just how the world works. It's sucks. But what can you do?

@claudiobeachball

Жыл бұрын

​@@robinirie98 What is it you dislike about "POC?" If your issue is that it's often used as a stand-in for "black," I hear you on that. But on its own, it's a catch-all term, and I think that's what we're talking about, not just the black experience, but I could be wrong here. "As a black man, I get annoyed when we moan about representation in people's story then complain that the people writing them aren't black." There's whitewashed world-building where it doesn't make sense ("Friends" syndrome - where an author builds a completely white world where it's unrealistic), and there's the lack of POC representation in what books get promoted. Two things can be true at the same time. I agree that all authors, regardless of race or other identifiers, should have freedom to get things wrong. As long as the portrayals are written in good faith and writers are willing to listen to constructive feedback from the groups represented, I don't have an issue with it. However, I would argue that comparing white authors writing POC characters to POC authors writing POC characters is a false equivalence. Lived experience and context matter. Of course, your mileage may vary, but in most Western countries such as the US (which I can speak to as a black American woman), in general POC must interact with white people - whether it's at work, school, for business and errands, etc. It's near impossible as a person of color to completely avoid interacting with white people completely, and when we do, we often have to shape our approach, speech, etc. in order to gain some measure of acceptance, or at least not come off as "stereotypical" or "threatening" (see "code-switching"). On the other hand, white people, in general, are much more easily able to avoid interacting with many, or any, people of color, and even then, for most, little thought is given to how they approach people of color or how POC fit into their world, due to white flight, systemic & institutional racism, etc. Because our lives often consist of interacting with white people, a writer of color writing a white character may be challenging, but that challenge is nowhere near in the same ballpark as a white author (in general) writing a POC character. It's misleading to say otherwise.

I agreed with everything you said. I must say what most people still don't realize is the difficulty for a writer of color to be published and marketed widely. It's DAMN hard! So YES to supporting authors of color!!!

I read "After the Worst Thing Happens" by Audrey Vernick-and it portrays a non-verbal autistic girl. I appreciated that in the author's note, she explained that she talked to autistic people about their experiences and had drafts picked through to ensure she was giving as much authenticity as she could. If authors write outside their own POV, this is how they should do it, at least in my opinion. But in the end, I wish more people would read books by diverse authors instead.

Y'all just cuz Jeanine Cummings is part Puerto Rican doesn't mean she's not white 😭 Also even if she isn't, she's still not a Mexican.

@m.f.hopkins8728

3 жыл бұрын

True! If she was Mexican or part Mexican - or at the very least, if she had done her homework - she would know the mythology of the hoot owl in Mexican culture. Having her main character making fun of a criminal's moniker 'The Owl' was a big goof.

@bookishwriter9460

2 жыл бұрын

There's a difference between being White and having a white passing. Having a white passing comes with a lot of priviledges that people without it don't have. But being White is not just about skin color. For example some people who may pass as white from their looks still have "non white" names that could mean a disadvantage on the housing market or the job market or when applying for insurance of any kind. :)

@TheGLaDOSvideoCore

11 ай бұрын

"so since white people are so bad at writing POCs, that means i can write about the struggle of a bolivian miner without doing any research?" -- 'nonwhite' with light skin who grew up with privileged wealth whiteness is a mindset which means it can infect POCs as much as anyone else ESPECIALLY if they are privileged in other ways

@claudiobeachball

Ай бұрын

@@bookishwriter9460that is very true, but doubtful for Jeanine Cummings 😉

When people demand diversity in books from individual authors it usually turns out to be incredibly inauthentic. Let people tell their stories the way they want to. They are free to do so. If you don't like the story being told then find one that's suitable. Orr, you can write your own. 😊

What terrifies me is that I went to an editor for my first novel who was a POC and they liked my manuscript UNTIL they found out I was white (my penname is ambiguous, but when the transaction went through it showed my name and she found a picture of me) and told me "no self-respecting black person would read a book with a black main character written by a white woman" and it terrified me. I initially paid $630 to be told that and she didn't provide any other criticism. (Thankfully fiverr refunded my money.) I didn't want to believe that was true, but I wanted closure before it came to me whitewashing my own character that I'd grown to love. I couldn't change the main character's soul like that, I'd have to delete him from the known universe and outright replace him with a new character. I couldn't do it, so I didn't. I decided that I'd just put more effort into researching how to write POC without being cliche or offensive. Some of the videos I've watched have me nearly in tears because they all paint white authors as snobs or "social justice warriors who use POC to get famous", and it hurts to see that. I'm not willing to give up this character that I've spent four years crafting. I am willing to change the way I describe and present them, but not their soul. I'm hoping to find ways to preserve them and possibly even improve them.

@marcellacassab4331

Жыл бұрын

I'm in exactly the same boat as you are, and I'm leaning towards self-publishing when it's finally done as a result. My brain is extremely visual so I can't just retcon my protagonist and her family to be white anymore than I can retcon her best friend to be black (or Anglosaxon) because my brain just won't be able to accept these are the same characters. The story's not ABOUT their backgrounds per say but they are too baked into the characters at this point. And these are my babies, I've grown WAY too attached to just cut them out and replace them. I'm just going to do the best I can to do all my characters justice. Best of luck fellow writer.

I think this is a really interesting topic! I see completely opposing sides when it comes to this argument. Many people think white authors should avoid writing about POC, and others expect it. I think both sides have really valid points and honestly depends on the quality of writing and how seriously the author takes it. I think authors should take note of how Hank Green has done it with his stories where he hired LGBTQ+ people to review his work to make sure it portrayed those characters realistically.

@booksaremysociallife

3 жыл бұрын

I have Hank's book on kindle, excited to read it!

"I don't think she's a mustache-twirling, evil person." 😭

I am Puerto Rican presenting as white. However many people in my family are people of color and I have many African ancestors. It’s a bit tricky when you know a culture, but aren’t always totally accepted as Part of the community. So you know the culture personally but don’t look the part. I’m a writer and I have struggled with this in my memoir. Aloha

I found the tangent about your preference to not call individual books “diverse” interesting hahaha. It made me think of one of my favorite books in which almost all of the characters are Asian American and that speaks to a particular Asian American, teenage experience that mirrored mine. I never considered my experience “diverse”, specifically because the community I grew up in was almost completely Asian American and quite culturally homogenous, but I remember reading the book and thinking that the story would be seen as “diverse” since it follows non-white characters. I really liked how you shared all your thoughts as always 🙂

Maybe the readers don't want to put the work in to reading diversely at the author level, so they're passing the buck onto the white authors the already read and demanding diverse characters so they can feel good about reading "diversely" without putting in the work to actually support diverse people in real life. Nevertheless, it is kind of weird if a book has a large cast set in a diverse (or a fantasy) location and there aren't any POC, just like how it's weird how a bunch of movies just have no women in them at all. Great video, pretty insightful for a hot take!

@verybarebones

3 жыл бұрын

Tbh we should point at companies more than individuals. They're the ones choosing which books get published in the mainstream market, which get promoted as book pf the month, which ones are easy to find at any bookstore in the world... the readers come afterwards.

@fernthaisetthawatkul5569

3 жыл бұрын

yeah like how many movies/shows set in nyc barely have any poc in the cast

I get the feeling that a lot of people don’t really know what diversity actually means. It doesn’t mean “other than white.” It also doesn’t apply only to race. It can be about religion, mental health, socioeconomical differences, disability, neurodivergence... When we talk seriously about representation, we must also consider intersectionality, since not two individuals experience one situation exactly the same. But apparently, that shit is too deep for booktube, lol. By the way, racial diversity does exist in Europe, in modern times and even before. Including the UK, France, etc. >.> So if an author writes about visiting such countries, what are the odds of them not finding even a single non-white person? All I know is that at least it's not zero. Also, yes, white authors can write non-white characters, for sure. But allowing authors to misrepresent/stereotype characters from minority and marginalized groups when they don't belong to them and not holding them accountable can be more harmful to those groups more than we tend to acknowledge. Especially when those authors are so influential, like J.K. Rowling and V.E. Schwabb. Too many people read their books first, and perhaps only them, for as unfortunate as that may be. So if these writers choose to add such characters into their stories, I expect them to do it well. And there’s no excuse for them to get it wrong, these days. Especially (but not limited to) when backed by a big, juicy publisher. Finally, as a Puerto Rican, thank you for supporting Caribbean authors and also for not using a far more vague umbrella term like “Latino.”

@verybarebones

3 жыл бұрын

Diversity exists in europe, but it's very different between regions, and it's very different from the USA. An American can write it, of course, but they need to take off the American glasses first. It makes no sense to represent 21st century distribution of american demographics in a story set in 16th century venice (youd have more mediterranean/middle eastern people, and basically zero east asians) or medieval sweden.

@MrGreyseptember

3 жыл бұрын

I'm from East Europe and live in a small town, and yet we have some POC here. But a percentage is so minor that you barely see these people on the streets. And when it comes to the English speaking booktube community and Slavic authors, we only hear about Nabokov and Andrzej Sapkowski. But here, in my country, the reading experience is REALLY diverse 'cos we read so many translated books from all other the world. I read Asian authors and Indian authors, African authors, and South American authors, etc. And it's a common thing in the reading community in my country, so I was really disappointed when I started to watch the US, Canadian, and UK booktubers. They practically don't read translated literature.

I totally agree! As a Haitian-American reader, I’m not expecting to see myself represented in books written by Americans (even Black ones) so I actively seek out and support Haitian and other Caribbean authors. It’s so frustrating for me when white people claim that they’re trying to “help kids feel represented” in their stories and write completely outside of their experience when that isn’t their responsibility. If white people really cared about diversity, they’d actually try to read diversely instead of trying to become some kind of martyr

This is so true people need to start uplifting the voices of POC and holding publishing industries for not publishing a diverse set of books. Why not give the platform to authors who are writing from the heart of their own experience. I love the point you brought up because stories like The Henna Artist for example that take place in one country with one group of ethnic people aren’t a diverse group yet the book tells an underrepresented story.

I completely agree with you. That said Jeanine Cummins is half Puerto Rican--HOWEVER she IS NOT Mexican and she was writing outside her experience and did not do enough research. Minorities writing about other minorities can also be tricky.

Tokenistic Forced Diversity is exactly what it is! I feel exactly the way that you do. If I want to read something other than straight white characters I find a non-straight non-white author. I have found that even when they try to add "diversity" in books it becomes SO cliche! Not every black man is tall dark and either bald or with waist-length dreds and is the best friend of the white protagonist. That is just one of the examples and It just drives me insane. Anyway, rant over. I agree with you lol

I’m in the middle! I honestly get very bored reading when characters are cis straight and white. I think the authors themselves would benefit from writing more ‘diversely’ because it changes the dynamics of a lot of stories and adds layers. I also think for example with JK Rowling I want a bit of realism- like as someone who is black and British, the U.K. especially cities have been quite diverse for quite some time so it feels forced that the book is soooo white. And I think as well it really is always white authors who then get big opportunities like their books turned into tv shows or movies so then it filters into a lack of diversity there. The books children have access too will generally be the ones by white authors so parents will have to go out of their own way to find books for their kids to see themselves in. I think having diverse characters, even side characters is something I would like to see. Just like I would like to see disability and mental health and sexuality explored more. I think eventually these authors will have to if they want to continue drawing in wide audiences going forward. However I don’t want white authors to write about the black experience necessarily and I do agree that what should come first is people finding black and brown authors who DO have that representation already and uplifting them. I don’t want a book centred on the black struggle written by a white author. But I don’t mind if there is a story about magic but one of the characters is black and they refer to the complexities of race, however people who have this experience would need to supervise this process and research would need to be done. Just like if you were writing about a paraplegic character as an abled bodied person you’d be expected to do research on the complexities of their experience. Too often characters are either a caricature/ stereotype or only really identifiably black because of their skin tone/ hair texture. It’s a tricky one. If you’re going to go for it make the effort and go for it. I think quite frankly it comes from a place of laziness a lot of the time also.

I love your perspective! It's simple, yet such excellent advice. The only area I struggle with is LGBTQ+ rep in a book whose author has not publically stated their sexual orientation or gender identity. I see criticism of authors writing LGBTQ+ characters when it is assumed they are straight, or people asking the author what their sexual orientation or gender identity is in order to "justify" whether they should or should not be writing those perspectives. I understand their reasoning, but I don't think anyone should have to give anyone that information if they aren't comfortable doing so. No one has a "right" to know someone else's sexual orientation or gender identity. I don't know how people can be satisfied on the question of whether something is own voices or not without forcing authors to give information they shouldn't have to. Loved the video! ❤️

@MrGreyseptember

3 жыл бұрын

For example, I'm an LGBTQ+ person and wanna write about LGBTQ+ people but I live in a very homophobic place and if I say out loud about my sexuality it can cost me a lot.

@cartoonplanettv

3 жыл бұрын

As a bisexual cis man, in my opinion (only focusing on sexuality, i can't focus on gender because i'm cis, i don't know what it is to be trans; that even makes me think that sexuality and gender need to be separated into two different communities) everyone should be allowed to write characters with any sexuality, because there isn't a certain way of being heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual/asexual (...), every person lives their sexuality in their own way. I believe that someone who's not bi has all the rights to write a bi character however they want as much as i do. I don't have to agree on how that character is written because we (the character and i) don't have to think the same just because we have the same sexuality.

@enfant00x

2 жыл бұрын

As a bisexual person, I really don’t care who writes bisexual characters as long as it’s written WELL. A lot of the most atrocious writing and stereotyping regarding bi-/gay people comes from LBTQ+ authors themselves and a lot of bi/gay characters written by straight people are fantastic. I think people just despise harmful stereotypes in general and when they are written by straight people the readers tend to point to the author’s own sexuality as the reason for the writing being bad, while letting the same sort of bad representation slide if the author’s sexuality matches that of the characters.

omfg. i had no idea about that situation and YIKES. Diversity gate? why do i miss all of the good drama lol. But I DID hear about that booktuber who ended up making alt right content....probably from you because you stay giving the mot wonderful, needed, and entertaining discussions. I'm not going to comment on your discussion because .... you said everything I would have said and did so much better than I ever possibly could.

@JesseOnYoutube

3 жыл бұрын

my only possible point of disagreement (and its very slight) is that i love 'unrealistic' diversity. say a book is set in Scandinavia but an author chooses to center or include ethnic diversity anyhow - i'm here for it. too often white folks use the 'its unrealistic' excuse to silence BIPOC folk when we critique being erased from historic settings. THAT said - i'm still not looking to white authors to ethnic diversity. i will never look to white authors for ethnic diversity or critique their books for being white af. yes i might point out that its white but i would never lay into a book for that. if they choose to write ethnic diversity - thats their choice. but like you, i am NOT looking to white authors for representation of BIPOC. I will get that rep from the SOURCE and support authors telling their own stories.

@booksaremysociallife

3 жыл бұрын

@@JesseOnKZread that's totally valid, and you're write people often use the 'realistic' excuse!

Completely agree, especially about the consultation. From what I've been hearing, many of the issues that readers have about an author writing from outside their experience could've been lessened or removed altogether if they consulted others. Sensitivity readers and beta readers from the groups you are writing about. I also think it's a good idea to do the same thing if you are writing about an experience that you do technically have experience with, but in different ways or your experience may be lacking. If more authors did that, I think we would have less problems in this regard.

Re the now alt right booktuber you spoke about at the start of the video: I just read Sisters in Hate: Women in the White Nationalist Movement and she was one of the woman interviewed by the journalist. Just thought it was a coincidence because I just finished the book. Also I agree, there's so many POC and LGBT authors out there that are writing authentic characters with stories people can connect to.

You have a wholesome personality. I love this humbleness.

you just speak FACTS👏👏👏read diversely if you want to see diverse characters! i understand people wanting their fave white authors to write more diversely but there’s all ready so many stories that meet that ‘criteria’ without you needing to prompt them.

@merzialately

2 жыл бұрын

that's true. and when their favorite white authors try to explore out of their comfort zone and make some mistakes they'd all go crazy and saying 'you can't write that'. People now expecting diversity in almost every book they read, especially when background characters are mentioned in a story - forgetting to realize that that's what the characters purpose was -- be part of the scenery being set up for you.

YES to marginalized communities “creating our own spaces.” And being disillusioned with the idea of inclusion by dominant (white/American) culture. Happy you also pointed to the difference in media attention, access to publishers and profit received by certain (white/American) authors. Thanks for the video 😊

Basically, I have been hearing that my responsibility as a white writer is do my research if I am writing a character with an identity that I don't hold, hire a (if not a couple) sensitivity readers, and beta/cp with people who are or hold the identity I don't hold. As a white reader, I should go to POC and BIPOC authors and ownvoices stories for diversity as well as question the stories/characters that white authors create if i feel they might be harmful to a marginalized identity (by reading, researching, and listening to people from the communities that are harmed). Thank you for your thoughts! Your video was well reasoned and insightful. I have some research to do as I build my first ever TBR, as I do want to include some non-fiction and fiction ownvoices stories and read from authors who are different from myself. Do you have any recommendations of books you have really loved and connected with that have characters or settings that you identify with? (If you feel like sharing of course! I will be checking out rebelwomenlit's site as well :) )

I'm neither white nor American nor European. I say let writers write what they want. Be a diverse reader. There are other literatures in the world outside the USA and Europe. To demand diversity in books for the sake of political correctness is to infringe upon the personal freedom of the writers. Besides, people only place that demand upon white authors. The Remains of the Day is written by a Japanese and there isn't a single Japanese character in it, and it's a great book. And if you only write about your own experience, there would be no fantasy, no historical fiction, no science fiction, and books would be boring.

White authors should absolutely not shy away from attempting to have authentic, diverse characters in their books, but they should do the research and go through sensitivity readers when they go that route if there is any doubt about the level and quality of representation. However, people looking specifically for black characters (as an example) should be reading black authors. They will, by and large, be able to satisfy them MUCH better because the experience and culture upon which their characters will be based will be true to life, not just well-researched depictions. Should we punish white authors for telling white stories with predominantly white characters? Likely not, but mixing it up every now and again is certainly a good thing and great for a writer to expand their horizons at the very least. Good video!!

Thank you for talking about this! I've always had mixed feelings when thinking about this topic because while I know part of it comes from marginalized groups who want to see themselves in books (and that's valid) I feel like the bigger group of people who tell white authors to write more diversely are white readers who are using this to get ally points and then proceed to not read books by "diverse" authors

@verybarebones

3 жыл бұрын

But we should blame companies for that. Let's be honest, white authors get more and better book deals pn average, so it's natural for people to ask "why are there no POC in the book of the month?" instead of looking for authors they havent heard of yet

@Chociewitka

24 күн бұрын

@@verybarebones But how, when I pick up a book I most often do not see the author's complexion at all - I have read Dumas since childhood but only learned a few months ago that his grandmother was dark Carribean. Also that Puskin had some dark ancestors was not visible at all is his writings. And neither was preferred nor dismissed based on their heritage. So how are publishers choosing stories by white authors more when they most often do not even see the author at all when they check out the story?

I heard your accent and I was like OH MY GOD because I haven't seen a lot of trinidadian booktubers before. So it's nice to see someone come from where I'm from that's into this. :D And honestly you have such a good point here. It's one of the reasons I don't like blackwashing because it's lazy. Instead of writing characters who are POC or looking and supporting authors who are and do write POC (which then makes these things popular) they get fussy about these white characters. I think diversity depends on a couple things. Setting, like you mentioned as well as how you write their character. Of course culture and heritage is linked but when their only character trait is that they're black it comes off as ignorant. Especially if you're not from that culture. I think that people who write these characters if their culture is heavily linked to it, they should do a lot of research and have people from that culture do a sensitivity reading. But I also think we need to talk about the publishers and marketing. They're really the ones that push aside and don't properly promote POC writers. Which needs to be tackled. Because if we don't fix this in the first place by supporting POC authors and making awareness, who will? These kind of situations also make me wonder what's my place as a mixed Indian. I can already tell that people will drag me because I'm not 'actually Indian' since I'm from the Caribbean. Am I only allowed to write characters like me? Even if my entire book/screenplay/ect is filled with a diverse cast of POC, mental health and LGBTQ+?

*just here leaving a comment to increase engagement bc i love this channel*

What a great discussion! I personally, as a black women, have no problem with white authors writing characters of colors most of the time. “Let’s Go Swimming On Doomsday” by Natalie C. Anderson is a favorite example of when white authors writing characters of colors works wonderfully. I only take issue when its been made crystal clear that a character has been written in to meet a quota of sorts...especially when it’s made glaringly obvious i.e all the other characters are fleshed out except the characters of color. You clearly had no plans to make this character a person of color so just write them how you originally wanted to. Half assing it to me is just lazy writing and kind of insulting, but with that being said I read authors of color when I want stories centered around characters of color 🤷🏾‍♀️.

yes thank GOD someone is saying it. people will make literal prayer circles for SJM to include a brown character in her books but will not open the first page of a book by a non-white author. ALSO - and I will die on this hill - the US book market and readers are in desperate need of translators to work on books that are actually written by authors *in* the countries they want to see diversity from!!

Thank. You. Your videos are always such a breath of fresh air because you do not make drama, you make sense. The logic that sometimes seems to leave people when they (even rightfully so) are fighting for something can be found in your videos. Thank you for being rational in topics that people get too emotional about to dicsuss/judge objectively. I want to read more diversely to what I read so far, but I hate the "forced" diversity that feels inaccurately represented. (Placing diversity in unrealistic context would also mean that they would need to adress the difference of that diverse experience - a black person in the 18th century in western europe probably would have different issues than a white person in 17th century China ... or you need to make it a fantasy world where the diversity is "normal" (and then - make it be normal) Yes, we need more diversity in popular books and I was not exposed to other ethnicities aside my own in books growing up (white privileged woman here). That needs to change. By supporting the right authors. Write what you know. Read what you don't.

Completely agree with everything said. I think it's so important to recognize the inequities that are still so prevalent in the writing/publishing industry that make it so much more difficult for writers of color to succeed. Creating spaces is so crucial. Support support support!

While there was criticism of the actual book itself and the advance she was given, that whole American Dirt thing was a mess in so many other ways too. There was a dinner for the book that her marketing team thought would be okay to put barbed wire on the centerpieces (tone deaf AF.) She said that her husband was an immigrant and so she pulled from that experience and then it came out he is an immigrant from Ireland or somewhere on the British Isles and she knew she was misrepresenting that. She said her grandmother was Puerto Rican as a shield when it was coinvent way after the thing blew up. The editor that bought the rights and got her the six figure deal was the same person who bought the rights for The Help. Another book by a white woman except that was partily based on real life and fucked over a lot of people. The movie rights just got more money for those white ppl in publishing power.

i hope we can get 10 people to write one chapter of a book each on a pre agreed theme and publish the book under one name, that would take a lot of stress of having to write long books and would help us work with each other more

This issue is so confusing because there doesn’t seem to be a cut and dry answer. Hopefully the buzz will get people to look for books by and about people who are different from them.

I'm a black girl writing from the pov of an asian man and yes, I think it's possible for someone of a ethnicity to write a character of a different ethnicity, but you only have to write them as a living breathing human being. It's very important to remember that race should only come in factor when it's an explicit theme of your chapter/book, otherwise it's pointless. Also, try to avoid stereotypes. You might think it makes the experience more authentic, but it's alientaing and deshumanizing. To be told your whole like that you're some type of way when you're not, and then opening a book and someone *else* also tells you so? No thanks

I liked you speaking about butterfly in the wind and how it would be labeled as a diverse book but actually isn't too diverse. Always giving great opinions!

hey! your video was recommended to me and i could not agree more. i've been on a bipoc author diet (at least 95%) and i feel infinitely healthier for it. i just don't trust white people to write characters of color well lol and that's fine too. also i'm pretty sure that person you mentioned at the beginning turned out to be a neo nazi 🥴 yuck. definitely subbing! thanks for the great video. i'm gonna send this to anyone who asks me why i won't buy books from white authors anymore 💖

This whole discussion is why I don't write poc. It's just too much pressure.

I think I have come to expect the visibility of diverse characters in books. Even if the book is set in a small, town where ethnic and religious diversity may not make sense that doesn't mean there aren't other forms of diversity don't exist in these spaces such as disability, mental health, gender etc. While we should always advocate for own-voices works first, I think that there does need to be a greater push for authors to include meaningful visibility. While I don't think it is always a good idea for a white author to write a poc main character without a ton of research and great sensitivity and beta readers. I would like to see more authors acknowledge that people are a multitude of different representations (whether those representations are marginalised or not) and even in a fictional universe that visibility is important to see. I hope this makes some level of sense.

Great conversation! I think another issue that comes up with books or media like American Dirt is the much higher amount of marketing and promotion the book by the white author will receive in contrast to a similar own voices narrative. This then gets these white-authored books into the hands of many more white readers and the potentially poor representation of BIPOC (or other diverse) characters are taken as fact by these white readers and has the potential to cause or validate negative stereotypes.

To this entire video: yep! Without repeating so many of your great points, one I do want to highlight is that if people are wanting to read about a specific experience, then go and seek out an author who has written about that because they have lived and do live that experience (if that made sense). Support and uplift those voices rather than, frankly what happens often, buying a book by a white author who may be misrepresenting a specific group or experience.

You make such a great point, really well put!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I love listening to the points you make and the nuance you bring to everything you discuss on this channel!

Thanks so much for this video! I think it made a lot of really good points and definitely has me thinking. I've definitely wondered about this myself as I read and write stories.

BEEN SAYING THIS !!! I agree read black authors or authors of other cultures and backgrounds you want to read about . I personally I don't appreciate the whole token characters that get dropped in after authors or movie producers recieve backlash cause its by force.

Thank you for your perspective! I had questions about this and I appreciate your view 💜

great video!! i feel like a lot of conversations around 'diversity' in general but i think especially on booktube become really individualistic, rather than thinking about the collective power of white authors/readers & books. and like something i think it was great you brought up bc i feel like it isnt often is the economic side of authorship and how that changes the dynamic between any author writing about something or someone who isnt the same as them or has had different experiences but especially when it's a matter of race/racial power. like i feel like the only time booktube really reckons with money is when it's about like to book haul or not to book haul which is fine, but there are so many other ways that money affects books and racial hierarchies and obviously a lot of other things too!!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opening up room for this discussion. I agree with alot of what you mentioned in this video specially in regards to creating our own spaces and supporting one another. That's one of the primary reasons I started my booktube channel. I am a Chicana/ Latinx and I told myself It's time to take up space. Very thankful I found your channel.

This was such a great discussion and I completely agree. I have been changing my reading and buying habits to switch to authors who are writing the characters I want to read.

I always am saying “yes!” out loud when I watch your commentary videos. I so appreciate you sharing your intellect and opinions with us.

This was such a nuanced and well thought out discussion! Taking away a lot to think about this! The concept of diversity I think has definitely ended up being quite different for different people, ie some think it's any book with a mc who isn't white

As a white person, it was interesting to hear your opinions. I also completely agree with everything you said 😄 I like diversity, but i like it where it makes sense, especially with characters from different races and ethnicities.

Amazing video Saajid! You're always able to talk about these topics (that tend to cause something on Twitter that's equivalent to everyone shouting in the same room) in such an educated, well spoken manner and make all your points so well and also challenge people to do better with their reading, and the type of books they should be seeking to read! I really appreciated everything you said here, and really take it on board!

Love your perspective on this topic! Creating our own spaces, be it in the book community or elsewhere, is an insight I hadn't really understood fully or manifested until recently. Your last video also really helped me come to terms with my responsibility in decentering the white narrative, white standards, and the white "gaze" if you will, in order to empower myself and my community. I also really appreciated your point on diversity not always being realistic, and the best way to diversify the stories we read is often diversifying the authors we read from. Thank you for this wonderful video as always!! Hope you have a lovely week

I love these mini series where you talk about topics that needs to be discussed. I totally agree with your take on it. 🙌

I agree with the points you make in this video. If people want to write diversity outside groups they are part of, they can and they should. However, it would be beneficial to promote Ownvoices books alongside their own. They must prepare for finding sensitivity readers and potential criticism. Acknowledging privilege and supporting other authors is quite important.

I love all parts of your take. It's a thoughtful way to come at the topic!

i hope we can make a group where everyone writes one chapter of a book each on a pre agreed theme and publish the book under one persons name,

Agree with what you say about being free to write whatever characters you want, as long as it's sensitively done and well-researched. I will never forgive Zadie Smith for calling a male Bengali character "Mr Begum" for the ENTIRE BOOK. It was clearly not beta-read by a SINGLE Bengali-speaking person.

@runningcommentary2125

3 жыл бұрын

I know nothing about Bengali culture and even I know how unintentionally hilarious calling a male character "Mr Begum" is.

I love this~~great discussion

Agreed. Reading Love After Love on your recommendation and loving it so far. I’ve never read anything about Trinidad and am enjoying learning as I absorb the story. 💗

I like, and agree, with your thoughts about the importance of reading more diversely, meaning reading diverse authors. I feel it's getting better, but we still have a long way to go. Thanks for this video.💙😊

Amen 🙌 We can't expect our favorite authors to fill all our book needs. We need to seek out different authors for different things. ❤ I love your channel.

Saajid OMG! This video was so helpful in so many ways! It was only yesterday that I put up a video about the dilemma I was in about white people writing POC and I talked about American Dirt in it. Watching your video makes my thoughts so much clearer. Thank you for making it ❤️

I totally agree with the opinions you express in this video. If you want to have diversity, diversify the authors you read, there's tons of writers out there to discover. An author should not be forced to add characters they cannot feel confortable writting, just because the readers all of a sudden become obsessed with "reading more diverse books". Will writers now have to use a checklist whenever they plan a book, so they're sure they don't miss any racial/gender/orientation diversity in their character cast? That's utterly stupid and a recipe for failure. Me, I love looking for mystery novels set in different locations and/or time periods. Any recommendations welcome 😄 (sorry, couldn't resist...there's a certain dearth of booktubers that read/review such books)

Wonderful discussion, Saajid! You got me thinking.

I agree: if you want to read more diversely, read a book from an author with a background unlike yours. There are loads of great [insert genre] novels by AOCs and their names are easy to find if you put in the effort. Yes SJM and VES don't have a lot of diversity and if that bothers you, seek out stories that do. It's really not that hard.

I think that I have a different approach to you on this issue and would also ask 'Should only POC authors write POC characters?' And should POC authors only write POC characters? Whilst white (cishet etc) authors are certainly not obligated to include people that are not like them in their books, and I would never demand that of any, I do wish more would look outside of themselves when they create their stories of their own free will. When I come across books by authors from non-homogenous areas of the world that are 'snow white' I often wonder why? Do they not see those that are 'different' to them when they look around? Watch TV or movies? Read other books, listen to music? *Why* do they only write people that are like them? Although to many white people around the world, they don't even see white [insert nationality/non-English speakers here] as the same as them, (ie, have you heard how Brits speak about Polish people???) so in some ways, it's hardly surprising. I believe and would encourage any author to write any types of character but they should do so with empathy. I agree with you that when they do that they need to expect criticism if readers think they have not done it well. And that includes using certain identities as caricatures, stereotypes, tokens and perhaps even worse - ambiguously. Also, I think there is a *huge* difference between books that look like life outside their window by including [xyz] characters (I know of a number of authors who do this successfully because fist and foremost they see the 'other' as being just as human as they themselves are with all the similarities that humans hold), and writing the specific lived experiences of [xyz] character and being able to that authentically from a place of understanding of that/those experience/s. And regarding the fiasco with American Dirt and other similar controversies, although the author wrote the book and I wonder what made her think she _should,_ the blame has to be put on the publisher for bypassing own voices authors in favour of that... [insert expletive], paying her top dollar to do so and creating the incredible amount of advertising they did to promote it. But also, the whole frontlist and midlist issue is a _whole_ conversation in it's own right... My idea of a 'diverse' book is one that includes a variety of peoples, no matter who is writing it, and TBH, I prefer that in books from all types of authors (unless they are writing a specific type of experience). However, I don't expect or need _all_ books to be diverse because as you say, it doesn't always make sense depending on the story and where it is set. Thanks for another great topic of conversation.

I was not waiting for this opinion! But after hearing you I'm changing my mind on the theme. Thank you very much!

“Intentionally a very neutral person... i dont know... i dont know her” ICONIC 😍

really liked listening to your views on this subject! that was very interesting!!!

Honestly I never thought of diversity as an overall multiples kind of thing - compared to diversity in one single novel - but that absolutely makes sense! It felt like you described something I’ve been lowkey feeling but didn’t have words for, so thanks! Great video 💕

I agree with every single thing you said...beautiful. I really appreciate several of the points you brought up here.

I really liked the way you really talked about this topic and how realistic you were about someone's expectations when it comes to diversity inside books. We can't possible expect someone to have the words and experience that may be sufficient enough to appropriately speak about a disenfranchised group's experience nor should we be pushing for it. We should be looking to push for publishers to open their pockets and actually give authors that are from disenfranchised groups the means to have their own say. Thank you for your video!

This is a topic that I've seen on booktube so much, but there are so many opposing viewpoints that felt valid to me so I wasn't sure what to conclusion to come to. I'm still not 100% sure there is a right conclusion, but this video was super helpful/provided a ton of points that I completely agree with! Putting effort into finding and reading diverse authors to read is way more important.

I agree with you but one problem is that those authors need more promotion for diverse book. There are people trying to create spaces for black creators like Boyce Watkins and Manuel Godoy.

(also, that was rain? I must be hungry because I thought someone was popping popcorn on the stove and got all excited!)

@booksaremysociallife

3 жыл бұрын

No it was rain lol!

I agree - it’s best if you want to see diverse characters to support diverse authors. The best writing is when people write what they know. So I don’t expect white authors to write POC. If they do, that’s great, but want them to do their research and write those characters well. What I do want to see is more support for POC and other diverse authors. I want to see authors promote and support others, including diverse authors, and I want for people looking for diversity to support it with their actions by supporting diverse authors.

i agree and it’s something i’ve always said there are so many authors out there if you aren’t finding what you’re looking for in the authors that you know seek out other authors and yeah i get what you mean with the whole it not being realistic too like i’m not gonna be reading a book written by an indonesian author set in a small island in indonesia and expect white people to be there because that’s not realistic hahaha

Really loved this video. I agree we as readers we can to diversify our bookshelves to ensure we are reading about our world. I also agree that authors can write the stories they are drawn to, but should do so with thoughtfulness, integrity and understanding of cultural appropriation. As readers, we need to show publishing by purchasing books by authors from diverse cultural backgrounds.

Read diversely! Bam 💥 Thank you, sir. Perfectly said. Readers have to be brave instead of being lazy and only consuming what’s “safe” and “familiar”.

Very well put. Took the words out of my mouth.

I am loving these discussion videos you are making at the moment! Really getting me to think about some tricky topics. I think critiquing authors for not writing "diversely" is valid and important because for some people, mostly white readers, it would be easy not to notice. I remember, as a white person, when I started to notice all the people in the TV shows I was watching were white and then actively seeking out shows that had actors of colour, which usually meant BIPOC writers and producers too. I think the same can happen with reading - calling books out for it makes people read more critically. However, the onus there is more on the reader. I don't think that should be put on the author. Their job is to write a good story, not tick boxes. Yes it would be nice for them to more accurately depict the reality around us but again the responsibility is on us as readers (and consumers). 100% agree it is far more productive and effective to seek out own voices authors, especially authors of colour. A lot could also be said for rather than focusing on authors we should focus on the publishing industry that is still a straight, cis, white prospering machine in both what they publish and who has power in the system.

Wow. This is so brilliantly said.

I enjoyed your take on this. I think diversity is exciting and realistic and so I like reading it and I like writing it. I think authors should write diversely when they can/want to and I think readers should read diversely. But I share the sentiment; people should just read and write what they want. Great vid :)

4:53 I'm white, straight, cis, Christian, a progressive one (I go to a United Church of Christ church that is labeled Open and Affirming), but still, and American. It feels embarrassing to me on different levels for different groups to try to write/represent some stories that are not my own (even sometimes for KZread tributes on my other channel) because I could really get it wrong. Having the best of intentions doesn't always mean you don't get things wrong or don't do any harm. I've been trying to become a writer and I look at things like how J.K. Rowling is criticized for characters like Cho Chang or what Sean Penn said about too many men being feminized even after having played Harvey Milk. Also, sexuality and being feminine and masculine are sometimes different, but we know the stereotypes. Sometimes I think it's better for me to just write what I know and then say how much I respect stories about different people. I've also come across a good number of people who assume what someone, and this has happened to me, thinks about them because of how they have interacted with other people in any of my groups, especially when it comes to Christianity, even when I have trauma but also a nagging feeling progressive theology is more right than tradition, and they will always try to find the hate even if you don't have it or are trying to work on yourself for feeling upset or uncomfortable. Some people in any group don't want writers who are outside of their groups, especially when they are in what's the oppressor group, touching their experiences. I see why and, like most people, I don't want to be canceled, it can be scary and I probably don't have the mental health for it, but I also don't want to destroy someone else's mental health or make it hard for them in other ways because of unintentional harm I do by writing characters who are in their groups. Being canceled is more than being called a bad writer, it can be about being seen as harmful because you have, unintentionally or not, caused harm to another group that is still struggling for their rights and basic respect. Also, as free as Google and other search engines are, there are times I don't find the answer, some people will feel differently about everything. There are stories like Crazy Rich Asian, Fiddler on the Roof, Jules's life as a transgender teenage girl in Euphoria, etc. that I could not write. I can only really care about them. There needs to be opportunities for different writers to shine instead of saying everyone should write outside their experience. Some men write women and girls so well in my opinion, they even surpassed what I feel comfortable writing and they shed light on things that need to be talked about and they make storylines that we need. However, some men would do us all a favor by writing men-centric stories where it's just wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, and so on who pop up every now and then or maybe even less than that.

Thank you for the video. I understand your point of view. I'd like to extend it a bit. Let us form groups of mutual interesst, of mutual support, of mutual respect. Let us look for those qualities and let leave aside gender, color, religion, land of origin and what else there is to divide us from eachother. From my point of view aside from autobiographie, all authors are writing outside of their field of experience. It is our gift of emphaty which allows us to cross the gap to the people next to us. If an author does that, they may portrait their characters as human individuals and not as stereotyp of whatsoever kind. I hope we'll find books of that kind from authors of all walks of life.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I totally agree! I don't read books specifically about trans characters/experiences written by cis authors anymore because they just don't give me what I'm looking for so I seek trans authors instead. cis authors can write trans characters but I just don't expect them to do it OR do it well. I'm not gonna sit here and wait for cis people to acknowledge us, you know. great video as always!

Honestly, if the answer is no, then prepare for books that only have white characters.

Great points. I think writers should write the characters they want to, but with as much respect and complexity as possible, and to expect criticism should they fail to do this. I will say I do think white writers writing a black main character (for example) in a book that revolves heavily around racial experiences could be tricky. Of course there are always outliers, and just as there are men who can write great female characters as well as great books that center on gender issues, there are surely some white writers who can do the same for books on racial issues. But those sorts of writers are probably very experienced masters of their craft. In general, the most nuanced and worthwhile depictions of a certain identities will come from writers who share that identity.

Wow i didn't know about that video, it sounds awful -.- Everything you said was so perfect and we definitely need to support more authors that come from marginalized groups and who are talking about their own experiences ❤