Having declared my dissatisfaction with this sharpener last night kzread.infoUgkxDcr-y2Pf6xdnrFHrSP7dl9kpKaCozcSQ I thought about the problem some more. It occurred to me that I might be undoing each attempt at achieving a sharp edge by the repeated attempts. So, I tried to clean up the unsatisfactory result by honing with only positions 3 and 4.Miracle!! A really nicely sharpened chef's knife, more than enough to handle my needs. Admittedly, it did not reach professionally sharpened razor-fineness, but it is now significantly sharper than it was. A bout of breaking down carrots convinced me. So, major apologies to the manufacturer, Amazon, and all happy and potential owners! Follow the directions: don't buy it if you have ceramic blades; and don't overwork your knife blade.

The first time you did a video on these diamond plates, they all sold out and the price went way up. I was just about to get a set finally, and you do this. 😝

@RexKrueger

Жыл бұрын

Well, they're cheap and you had time!

@RIBill

Жыл бұрын

I had the same experience. The ones he originally recommended came back in stock after a few months.

@theprogram863

Жыл бұрын

I was already using diamond plates and still love them. IMO oilstones are annoying because they require oil. To me, they seem more useful for machinists. I've been doing diamond plus stropping at the end per Lee's book and it's fast, easy, cheap, and gets an excellent edge. But rex is totally right that the differences between systems are dwarfed by experience and discipline. (Chefs have this problem in a big way: they blow hundreds on sharpening solutions and then never use them so they have a smaller bank account and dull knives.)

I started with old oilstones half a lifetime ago, and fell in love with diamond as soon as it became available to me. Anything will work, it really is more about what you like. That, and a strop is almost magical for getting a razor edge

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Same here. I had oil stones for years. Then I got some cheap diamond plates. I still use cheap diamond plates but better cheap ones. Really for sharpening I just use the 1,000 grit. I establish primary bevels with a bench grinder. I'm not hand honing off large amounts of tool steel. That's for the birds. Then I polish on a Spyderco ceramic hone and strop on a charged leather. I get sharpened up in under 2 minutes. Back before modern alloy steel oil stones were OK. Not today. Diamonds cut everything. Rex even admits he's lost the plot in this video if you listen to what he says.

The first half of the kzread.infoUgkx3ICSK6nSknaL_45CU2NmFSoXjarGMDiJ book is everything about wood: types, tools, finishes, setting up shop etc. The second half is all about doing projects for inside and outside of the home. The color pictures are helpful. After reading a dozen of these types of books, this is probably the best overall (layout, color photos, plans). Only detraction is that many of the projects use a table saw/router/planer, which are usually expensive and take up space, so the plans are less friendly to newcomers and the budget conscious. But I know I can use a drill, circular saw or a jigsaw to make the projects.

If the marketing jargon has any connection to the manufactured product, then I expect "monocrystalline diamond" means that each tiny piece of diamond grit embedded in the plate is composed of a single crystal, rather than a cluster of smaller crystals. On the larger grits, that means they are using larger (more expensive) diamonds in the grit, but probably reduces the likelihood that the grit will break down into finer grains over time.

@clappercl

Жыл бұрын

Polycrystaline diamonds are more fragile and so "snap" off leaving fresh sharp edges while using. Very aggressive but wear out faster. Monocrystaline diamonds don't fracture as readily and so last a very long time but the cutting surfaces "round off" and cut slower over time. That said, any diamond will cut faster than any other medium. Poly diamonds are cheaper to make so most cheaper plates use them.

Monocrystalline diamond plates wear more slowly than polycrystalline plates. Polycrystalline diamonds are clusters of diamonds and the small, individual crystals will break free of the parent mass over time, reducing the efficiency of the plate. I have an older PCP that is essentially bare metal in the middle. The monocrystalline plates have single crystals of the correct grit rather than small clusters of even smaller crystals. The cutting behaviour of the MC plates is more consistent, and they don't "migrate" to finer grit as they wear.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Poly plates won't wear down that quickly if you use them right. Using them right means applying a reasonable pressure and using a proper lubricant on them too. Lean into it shouldn't be your mantra while honing. If it is then you need to reevaluate what you're on about.

@theeddorian

Жыл бұрын

@@1pcfred I didn't say they wear down "that quickly," just that they wear _more_ quickly than MC plates, and most importantly that because they are polycrystalline, as the clusters do break up, the effective grit becomes finer. I have an old PC plate that now has an effective grit of somewhere around 8000 or more. I just used it to sharpen pocket knives and kitchen knives, so bearing down really isn't an issue. It's about 40 years old now. I still use it, but only for finishing knives.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

@@theeddorian I can get at least 3 years out of a cheap Chinese plate. When they lose their bite I get a new one.

A small addendum for the absolute beginner, don't buy a strop, get an old belt, cut it and stick to a piece of wood. And if you don't have an old belt you can use cardboard paper but then you need to replace it every now and again

@ricos1497

Жыл бұрын

Also, it's important to note that once you've stuck the belt to the wood, it's no longer suitable for hitting the kids with.

@grumpyoldsodinacellar4065

Жыл бұрын

@@ricos1497 oh I dunno, gripping the wood gives me more leverage 😂😂😂

@BloodSprite-tan

Жыл бұрын

I mean if you don't have a leather belt just cut off a piece of your old leather couch. haha.

I bought a diamond plate just to flatten my water stones. I use Japanese style tools in my shop and you are spot on. I destroyed a few chisels using non-water stones to sharpen and avoid the flattening process. I kind of find sharpening a peaceful & meditative part of my woodworking.

There was this good witch once that told me “There is no place like home”. She may have been talking to a little girl next to me whose name was Dorothy. Regardless, I think pick one and stick with it is great advice… perhaps not the sandpaper choice unless you have a great source for free sandpaper. Oh, and one other thing, the green charging stuff for the strop is about 8000 grit. If your finest stone is finer than that then skip the strop. 😉

I use water stones and have never even tried keeping mine in water 24/7. Soaking until the bubbles go away before use has produced good results for me. Just sayin' I do sometimes strop afterwards depending on how sharp I want to go. (I sharpern everything in my house with these)

@richardsinger01

Жыл бұрын

Different water stones need different treatment. Some need soaking some don’t.

@matthewbrady5214

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I have the cheap one and only need to soak them for like 10 minutes.

I started "woodworking" some years ago with diy musical instruments, but after watching this whole channel i realized i only scratched the surface! Love your content Rex

@FrederSnorlax

Жыл бұрын

I would like to see some DIY instruments! Do you have any pictures or vids of demonstration?

I got an electroplated, two sided (400/1000 grit) diamond stone branded Axminster Rider that I have been using the last year together with a strop. I am happy with the results.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

I hone on a 1,000 grit diamond plate and polish on Spyderco ceramic hones. I hollow grind primary bevels with a bench grinder. So I never need any coarse grit.

I've got to say, the combination of that Trend #1000/#400 combination diamond plate and a 16000 Shapton glass stone (a-la Rob Cosman) is an absolutely incredible sharpening system. Pretty much the finest edge possible, tiny form factor which makes it completely portable, and it can handle any steel you throw at it. It's the best way to sharpen a smoothing blade that I've found. It's not the cheapest system, but it's way less than a full set of DMT diamond plates. You can opt not to use a Shapton initially which also cuts down on the cost. Before I got my Shapton I used that King combo stone and that definitely works well, but the Shapton is just something else, it's a different league, sublime. Once you try it you can't go back. It gives a mirror polish so deep as to be dark in appearance, and I've used it with O1 tool steel hardened up to about 63 Rockwell C with no issues, it cuts steels that hard. Rarely needs flattening, and it's splash-and-go just like a diamond plate so there's no gross stinky stagnant water tub to deal with, just a spray bottle or sprinkle from your fingers will do. Can't recommend highly enough.

@Borescoped

Жыл бұрын

This is the way. Get the basic kit from Rob, add to it when you can afford to. That’s what I did. I’ve since added the 4K and 8K Shapton stones to my kit, as well as the coarser Trend diamond stone. Eventually, after saving up, I might just get the Shapton lapping plate.

@mikestewart505

Жыл бұрын

@@Borescoped If money's tight, the Trend followed by a strop is pretty impressive. I'm not completely sure why stropping works, but it does. And I have seen the Shapton GS 8000 for about $50 less than the 16000. But don't get me wrong--the day will probably come to buy a GS 30000. Not soon, though...

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

That's what I do. I raise a burr on the diamond plate then polish on some Spyderco ceramics. I also hollow grind the primary bevel on my tools so I'm not honing away material all day long. If it's taking me more than three strokes honing then it's time for a regrind. I like my microbevels small!

@DanielJoyce

Жыл бұрын

I have a diamond plate and a Arkansas oil stone. I use the diamond to pull up a burr and then finish on the fine Arkansas stone like a strop. I find it very hard wearing and wow, I can shave my arm in no time if I mean sure to get a burr on the coarse and fine diamond and then finish on the Arkansas stone.

I’ve learned so much from you. I’ve stayed at the sandpaper level as my use of hand tools is very limited due to health issues. But I appreciate that you don’t disparage or mock any level of sharpening.

The way I like to categorize sharpening media in my head is from how the abrasive is presented to the tools. And basically there are two ways. Abrasives on a surface and abrasive in some sort of lose matrix. Abrasives on a surface would be sandpaper and diamond plates, abrasives in lose matrix would be abrasive powders and buffing compounds. Then all the different kinds of stones are a bit of both! The harder the stone, the more it relies on the abrasive surface of the stone and the softer the stone is, the more it relies on the slurry created during the sharpening

I have had the cheap diamond stones and they have lasted over 18 months so far of regular use. They are mounted on a plywood board which helps keep them supported.

I broke my hard Arkansas years ago. Took several tries to find anything I liked as well. I finally settled on Rob Cosman's suggestion of a Trend diamond stone and Shapton 16000 glass stone. If you resist the urge (I didn't ) to buy a bunch of other sizes of Shapton, it's not *that* expensive. And the 16000 is the only one I'm likely to ever wear out... I was really disappointed with the extra extra fine (8000, IIRC) diamond plate. It wore out really quickly.

I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.

Rex the company Trend has excellent diamond stones. Super thick and heavy.

Great Video! To bad you didn't do it about 2 months earlier! I just invested in a few sets of water stones. I found a Buck chisel my Dad used back in the late 80's/early 90's to hang some doors. I found it and slit my thumb wide up as a toddler. I'm now 34, my Dad past in January suddenly and while finishing my parents addition this summer, I found the Buck Chisel in his tool box! It was beat to hell and I don't think it would have worked on balsam wood and I debated about getting my tetanus shot just from looking at it!! I used some 60 grit normal sand paper to get the rust, paint and grime off. Then went up to 100 & 220 normal 3M, I did add water to wet sand it, to bring it back to a nice crisp edge. But then went to the blocks.... went from 400 up to 8000! I didn't get the shine i wanted, so I buffed it on my bench grinder to a nice blinding reflection!!! This will be one of those chisel that will be looked at and used in a pinch but not a go to for every job. Thanks for all you do! -Mike W.

Nice video rex. However a quick tip, if you know how to wear your oilstones properly, you don't need to flatten your stones anymore. The trick is : don't put the whole plane blade over the middle of the stone. Sharpen the right side of the blade on the left side of the stone (that means the left side of the blade overhangs) and vice versa. The wear is more even and the oilstone does not get hollow along its width. Of course you can also adjust how you wear the stone if you check it on a regular basis

I started with an old two sided oil stone I inherited from my dad. Basically when I cleaned out my parents house I only kept what I had an immediate need for as I was limited for space and had no intrest in wood working at the time. However the state of the oil stone was not good as it was clogged. Bsicaly it is was mainly used for sharpening kitchen knives so I was used with vegatable oil rather than mineral oil to make sure the knives stayed food safe. When I finaly started wood working it did get me through the first few sharpening sessions on my initial chissels and planes. As I still wanted whatever permanent sharpening system still to be food save I went with water stones as they can still serve the double duty of sharpening my wood working tools and kitchen knives.

Thank you for your time and knowledge!!!!

I tried a lot of different ways to sharpen my tools too. I ended up with a double sided dmt plate, a vintage white arkansas stone, and a strop. My pile of 'spare' stuff is as big as yours.

I use the system described by Rob Cosman in his video "32 sec to sharp". one 300/1000 diamond plate and a 16000 Shapton glass/ceramic stone. 300 diamond is just for flattening the ceramic stone. Done by hand without a jig. Not much money for just two stone. Give it a try.

Rex great video, solid information. Thank you!

If you don't like water stones I highly recommend trying imanishi amakusa natural stones. They're cheap, they don't require soaking and they're size of a brick which will last you a lifetime. I shaped one side with a dremel diamond wheel to sharpen gouges and they work wonderfully. I also recommend getting a fine shapton glass stone instead of finest diamond plate. You can get away with only medium diamond plate, shapton 4k and a strop

Dude, you nailed it with this video. Fantastic!

Thank you once again for this demonstration, Rex 💪🙏

Always good info Rex. You always educate well with every video. Keep doing you sir.

Great video Rex!

Lots of good information here Rex.👍👍Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂

You should find and try a Coticule natural stone. Found out about them when I was shaving with straight razors... a medium stone for grinding a bevel, a Coticule, and a strop with a little compound creates a perfect edge in a big hurry...

Hy Rex, i’ve been a cabinet maker for 30 + years now . For no reason , like you , after 28 + years of sharpening with one 2 sided oil stone , i bought the dimond stones 🤪😱 Now i’m back with the oil stone . Like my grand dad youse to say , when it works why change 😂😊🤷

Nice video. Audio quality has really improved. Love the channel.

Another great video! And I totally agree with the idea of picking one and sticking with it. I started with oil stones and still use them in my machine shop. But I hated all the oil on my wood working tools and moved on to water stones. I've bought and used a couple of diamond plates and so far so good. But mostly I use the 120/180 diamond plate for leveling the water stones. I WAS going to shift to diamond plates actually. But decided to try the 120/180 cheapie combo plate as a low cost intro. But in the end it was the perfect compliment to my water stones and that's where I'm now very happy. Plus, as you say, I've learned how best to use the water stones after a good 25 years of home hobby use. A hint for the "stone pond" for those that decide that water stones are for them. Yeah, it's nasty when the stones sit down in the sludge on the bottom. And in time the water can become pretty funky. To keep the stones out of the sludge a grid or short raised plastic racking of some manner holds the stones a little off the bottom. A cut down dish drainer works well if you get the proper sort. And about once every few months a small squirt of bleach into the pond and using a cover keeps any growth in the water at bay.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Water stones are a filthy mess too with the slurry they make. I use one diamond plate with a super cleaner as a lubricant. Because I'm hollow grinding the primary bevels on my tools. So I'm not sitting there forever honing them. A few strokes does it. After that you're just playing with yourself.

I finally got me a set of shapton glass stones for Xmas! Only had old oil stones n a couple of diamond stones to compare to but love em!!!

I recently got myself a super cheap set with a guide, a two-sided stone and some oil. it may not be amazing, but it's a huge improvement over nothing at all!

I saw your cheap diamond plate video and immediately went ahead and wanted to purchase them. But I ended up buying a water stone kit that had leather and compound as well as a honing guide. My woodworking teacher didn't use a guide, but he did have water stones soaked in a big Tupper. To me, the guide included in the kit was the deciding factor, and even though neither my teacher used it or you mentioned it on the cheap diamond stone video, I still went with them. I was bummed when you said you didnt liked them but felt immediately better when you said basically choose one method and be good at it. So thanks and thanks again for all your videos and knowledge

I was given a set of Arkansas oil stone for Christmas from woodcraft and I love them

Hola! 🖐Super awesome video, lots of info, yet lots to still learn. Great job. Take care and have a good one, Adios! 👊

I have a norton india stone from my grandfather and it still works great

Really fantastic tips, Rex! Thanks!!! 😃 I bought some of the cheap diamond plates, but I still didn't finish my jig to hold them. 😬 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

The simplest start-up relies upon available budget, but most professional site carpenters used to head down the dual grit (Fine & Coarse) combination oil stone route plus an optional finishing stone. Both types can be cleaned by boiling in a pan of water with a dash of soap powder.... just remember to suspend the stone in the water and avoiding direct contact with the pan bottom. For Japanese or western sharpening, aim for 1000 and 8000 grit stones and no need for intermediate grits for straightforward, sound, shaving sharp cutting edges. Honing with or without a guide is totally optional, but learning freehand sharpening means you can sharpen anytime, anywhere and with a minimal set up.

The effective and intelligent teacher in his beautiful new classroom. I greatly appreciate RC. His videos are well-worth our valuable time.

I bought some small ceramic/marble tiles from the big box store for under $1 a piece on clearance. Not only do they look really neat, but they have a very smooth finish that polishes steel well.

I always love hearing the honesty in your videos. It's great if you happen to know the details about why something works or doesn't, but it makes your videos more 'human' when you just say "I honestly really don't know what that means." It also gives good entertainment value :)

Your KZread videos were some of the first I got hooked on. Just ask the wife.... I have gone with the diamond plate and shapton for irons and chisels but never get rid of any sharpening stones I keep one great set by my bench some in truck and some in every tool box. Keep all the videos coming .

Great video

Hi Rex i whats your video on sharpening. The cher dimond stons are great fore sharpening my straight raiser. 👍

Thanks!

I'm "restoring" a buck chisel which someone (not me) must have used on concrete or nails. But without power tools, it is get out the roughest one and grind away. Wee. But I've watch your videos so I _think_ I have an idea what I'm doing.

My setup is very simple, thanks to Face Edge, a different woodworking channel. Combination diamond stone 300/1000# + autosol on a block of wood. I only use the 300# when I need to reshape an edge otherwise its the 1000# and then autosol and thats it. Gets a glass smooth finish on wood surface and it doesn't get much simpler than that. Sharpening in woodworking is 98% fluff. Too many people try to sell their products instead of teach real sharpening. Oh and I don't waste my time or money on lubricant. I clean the diamond stone with a pink eraser like the ones you used to use in school, thanks to a different channel, Stavros Gakos. Appreciate the honesty and candor, Rex.

I think it would be the best idea to do the low grit on diamond stones, and finish on the oil stones if you want a finer finish. I'm only half way through so maybe you bring that up later.

I went insane over the dishing in waterstones. I think got a large 120 grit DMT stone and a pocket sized double sided one then was so much happier. Only issue with the pocket one is that it did start to bend after I used it on sharpening a axe like you would with a file. Later, I got a 8000 grit DMT stone and also love it. I usually wait for holiday deals.

i've been sharpening bladed tools for the better part of 50 years. i think i've tried every system there is. oil stones can be lovely but i find the process a bit messy; waterstones can be a dream when they're soaked and flattened properly but getting there can be a bit of a PITA and they're messy and you have to be scrupulously careful to dry everything off after sharpening to avoid rust issues. these days i'm using diamond plates for rough and medium work and ceramic stones for finishing and polishing. with this process i use de-natured alcohol as a fluid which works well because neither diamond nor ceramic will soak up the alcohol _and_ the alcohol won't rust your tools. certainly not the cheapest way to find a sharpening system but i learned a lot along the way.

I tried all of it. I started with a King 800 and a King 6000. Then I tried Diamonds with a strop. After that I bought some natural Oilstones and really liked them. Actually I use Shapton Ha-no-Kuromaku Waterstones, which dont need to be soaked, sometimes followed by a modern thuringian natural waterstone. But for some blades I still like go back to my King stones. So I generally gone full circle and I think all systems work. I have to say that I really like sharpening and that most of the stones were bought when I tried to sharpen straight razors. For woodworking the King stones and a diamond plate for flattening always did the job. Greetings from Germany.

That was Phd level bought down to workshop talk! Brilliant, I understand so much more 😊 ye-ha !! Thank Rex Bob England

Such a great video with loads of details from experience. When you mentioned the diamond plates aren't as fine I wondered if you could then go to your nice oil stone before the strop.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

After honing on a diamond plate I polish on a ceramic hone myself. That gives me a mirror bright finish.

About 15 years ago when I was just getting started with hand tools, I attended a Woodcraft class on sharpening hand planes. And the instructor demonstrates sharpening one with - a belt sander? But I already had a belt sander and a dull blade, so I tried it. And it worked! I had to be careful not to overheat the blade, but otherwise I just free-handed it like the instructor did and I got a nice share blade with the slight bevel I wanted. But sharpening hand tools also requires other tasks like flattening the back, and I was reading about the scary sharp system. I already had plenty of sandpaper but needed a truly flat surface. So I went to my Woodcraft and picked up a granite surface plate. These are expensive these days at about $60 but when I got it it was $35. I never really used the scary sharp system, but for flattening, it can't be beat. For hand sharpening, I have a Pinnacle Arkansas oil stone. Because I don't really want to always sharpen hand tools with a belt sander. They don't make these anymore and I have no idea what grit it has. I think I paid about $50 for it, and it gets my tools sharp. I'm making Thor's hammer and cutting that mortise into the ash head with my chisels has been - actually easier than I expected.

thanks for the video! i wonder if you ever tried to sharpen you japanese tools on the arks

Very good advice here. As a lot of people I tryed out a brunch of systems and I ende up with a single waterstone with 1000 and 3000 grit sides. I now own 8 Stones and only use 1. Bayer be ware its super easyJet to overspend when learning how to use the one you have js the way to go.

Keep them coming.

@RexKrueger

Жыл бұрын

I will. Thank you.

I started out with sandpaper. Then oil stones which took awhile to get blade sharp. Finally when the price of a decent diamond plate was in my price range I purchased it and I absolutely love it. It takes no time to get a blade really freaking sharp with a diamond plate. Best decision and purchase I made and don't regret it. I'm thinking of buying another just to have in case. Thanks for the video anyway, Rex.

Nice jig and stones.

I started with some new Stanley stone from Bigbox store but didn't work. Later on got a cheap old indian stone which got me the result. I recently tried sharpton up to 16,000. That makes the blades into mirrors. Highly recommended.

Great info. Ive been using a Sharpal 325/1000 diamond stone for almost 2 years now. Love it. Great midgrade stone. And of course a strop for honing 🤙

@bakerzermatt

Жыл бұрын

I've got the same stone, it's great!

I bought a set of the cheap diamond stone's and yes, even with a strop they leave a lot to be desired. Fortunately, I also had a Dalmore blue stone and by using that and then finishing with a strop, I get what I consider, an excellent edge with a mirror like finish. For lubrication, I don't bother with the tiny bottles of "magic diamond stone solution" I just use white spirit and it seems to work fine and I've been working those diamond plates hard since I got them. One problem, the only place I know to buy Dalmore stones is on eBay and they start at £20 used.

I started with diamond stones for my knives and took my tools over to them; it works well. I do wish there were higher levels of sharpness though. I do have two water stones; those are what I finish my straight razor on.

Before and after sharpening with water stones, run the faces together of the closest grits. Helps keep them flat. Do it in between sharpening and not only when they start to dish. I dont keep mine in a tub of water. I keep them in a ziploc bag. When I go to sharpen I use a large bowl filled with water and put the stones in them until I am about to use them. I empty the water after every use and the stones stay damp in the bag. Just my personal preference.

I have acquired many options for sharpening over the years. I have found that different tools sharpen better using different stones. For instance, my carving gouges seem to work better with water stones while my bench chisels seem to work better with diamond plates. On my knives I prefer the natural coticule edge. The shapton glass stones are nice and fast, but possibly a bit too fast for beginners, you can repair or damage the edge very quickly with them.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Diamonds can sharpen anything. That's why they're the best. But I do polish on ceramic hones. I don't waste time with oil stones anymore. That's only good for old steel.

@TylrVncnt

Жыл бұрын

@@1pcfred diamonds aren’t the best, and simply not the fastest either. tldr; Diamonds can be useful, but in general they are WAY overrated. Whetstones (water stones) cut WAY faster, and are more pleasurable sharpening experience with much better feedback for your fine motor skills. The only Diamond plate I’d recommend is the DMT coarse (325 grit) but be wary that it prob will not come dead flat, same as any other Diamond plate except the ultra high cost ones.. -- Unless you’re sharpening tungsten carbide, Diamond is not simply “the best”. Trust me, I used to think the same thing, I own 5 different DMTs, 3 atoma plates, and I have this conclusion… there is SO much more that comes into the literal art and science of abrading steel (sharpening) than simply how hard the abrasive used on the stone/plate is on the mohs scale (Diamond hardest). The most overlooked aspect is the distribution density of abrasives, not just the size of the grain (it’s micron or grit rating) but how close/far apart they are together in the context of the stone. In addition to that, I have learned thru experience that every abrasive has their advantages and different best use cases, and the different shapes of the granules of abrasives work and feel different and also fracture differently. Aluminum oxide, silicon carbide (green vs black) etc all have their advantages. In my extensive experience sharpening (not trying to brag or anything like that, only just saying that I really, I’ve tried a LOT of different stones in this pursuit…) nothing comes close to cutting as fast as a good quality whetstone, not close. And the benefit to a good water stone is the feedback you get and absolutely “feeling” what it is that is happening at the exact part of the cutting edge that is coming into contact etc. Also another thing, out of all my Diamond plates, literally ONLY the Extra Fine side of one of my DMT’s and one of my Atoma plates (the 400) are *actually dead flat* …. Which is beyond frustrating because you can NOT make it flat. And to acquire something that you KNOW is flat (inspected at factory) that is a Diamond plate is extremely cost prohibitive. (Like Shaptons reference Diamond plate or DMT’s $200 lapping plate etc) That said, I DO always recommend the DMT coarse (which is truly a 325 grit) it may not necessarily come flat, and even tho it’s a “coarse” it also may not remove material very fast (again nowhere CLOSE to a good coarse whetstone, no comparison in that speed) so it’s not a good option for truing sole of a plane or it’s blade or chisel etc.. BUT the coarse leaves an extremely surprisingly good keen edge, much much better than their fine and especially extra fine. IMO I believe it’s because of their particular grit “distribution” or density - they absolutely NAILED it for their “coarse” grit. I’d like to think that was intentional but considering how the “finer” grits don’t even compare, it must be a fluke lmao. But it’s a great fluke. You can sharpen just about anything with that DMT (again not the fastest) and then strop on some leather with flitz or equivalent and you will consistently get an extremely good shaving sharp edge. For this reason I recommend it since it’s an economical option to have only one stone (esp if just dipping feet in) and then just go to a leather strop (tho not 100% necessary if you are proficient at removing a burr on a stone and also depending on the type of edge you want) with gunny juice stropping compound/liquid or equivalent, tho I’m not sure there is an equivalent to Gunny Juice tho 😉 it’s water based Diamond emulsion and even food safe, much better than typical green chromium oxide in that regard alone tho don’t eat it obviously lol.. it applies very easily to the smooth/top grain side of leather, maybe “Stroppy Stuff” from the UK which is a spray would work as well but for suede or “rough out” side of leather, but never tried their compound, yet! For waterstones, if you wanna go “splash n go”/non-soaking whetstone option the Shapton Glass series is some of the best abrasive products out there ever, they’re incredibly hard-wearing even tho much thinner than like all other whetstones (which also makes them very portable or at least not take up a bunch of space) and they abrade steel SO fast in most cases (S35VN steel didn’t feel the best on it, BUT still much better than Diamond stones in general..) and the feedback you get (audio, visual and FEEL) is a joy to work with. I personally recommend the 500 grit and the 2k, gotta make sure you have a really solid whetstone holder that gives it good height as well IMHO, oh and you can find these stones the cheapest at Lee Valley of all places (and if we’re talking about Shapton’s other products too Lee Valley is just by FAR the cheapest place for them for whatever reason!) tho MTC Kitchen is also very close, and some of their Shapton Glass stones might be cheaper it really depends on which one, and a bonus at MTC is you can get 10% off IF it’s your first purchase there. But their other Shapton product prices simply cannot compete with Lee Valley’s. And then there’s the “soaking stones” (more traditional option) and one of these I highly recommend no matter what is the Suehiro Rika which is an aluminum oxide 5k grit stone but cuts SO fast it’s insane, feedback is incredible and leaves a beautiful consistent semi-gloss or satin-ish finish that I LOVE too. Suehiro’s other soaking stones are excellent too, the CERAX range is fantastic, I’d recommend the 400 and the 1k, also very affordable stones. Suehiro also makes a 6 or 8k (can’t remember) stone from that Rika series (which btw is different than CERAX series) that you can get in a green silicon carbide for high hardness alloys / “super steels” etc. which btw - these steels are not anything a woodworker will typically evvver encounter lol, another reason diamond stones are (IMHO..) 10000% overrated for woodworking especially.. with exception of that coarse DMT 325 grit ;) Oh and another thing, not all things labeled 1000 grit are the same, never assume that. There are so many different grit ratings from different parts of the world, FEPA scale (Russia I believe? Oh on that note Venev Diamond resin bonded stones are great, tho I prefer the 6in x 1in sizes for in hand sharpening for pocket knives etc) there’s the P-scale, and Micron, and even within Japan one whetstone manufacturer’s 800 is like another’s 1200 (looking at you Naniwa and Shapton.. former tends to underrate the grit and latter tends to overrate, tho doesn’t appl to Shapton’s Glass stone series necessarily.. esp since they also list the micron size of the abrasive in addition to grit rating on back of the glass stones, tho again it’s not all about particle size, so much more comes into it. It’s just important to understand that there are so many nuances to even the grit rating and kind of finish on your cutting instrument you can expect) Anyways, I’ve rambled more than enough for this day, damn..! I’m just super passionate about tools and having them perform at their absolute highest capabilities and getting them to that god-mode state as fast and *enjoyably* as possible. Great water stones are an absolute pleasure to sharpen with, and that matters IMO. Oh and when it comes to lapping any blade or plane sole (and also maintaining the whetstones flat) the best/cheapest way to do this is to get a decently big pane of float/plate glass and various coarse (coarser the better/faster IME..!) loose grits of silicon carbide, will flatten a plane sole or a chisel back etc MUCH much much faster than ANY Diamond plate. I suppose you could use loose diamond abrasive instead, but this can be expensivvve and also will bring your truly flat pane of glass out of flat faster than anything else lol and also the texture of most diamond abrasive is not as aggressive a geometrical faceted shape as silicon carbide, which is also very hard and can fracture which exposes new cutting faces and working faster. Polycrystaline diamonds “can” have that same property, but they don’t fracture as easily and still won’t have as aggressive a cutting shape as the black silicon carbide even if it’s slightly harder (not harder by that much, which at first was surprising to learn) but theoretically would exhibit similar cutting characteristics for that application at least. DMT or any other company that’s at least attempting to make a quality Diamond plate exclusively use monocrystalline diamonds since they don’t fracture (nearly as easily) and will of course be a cutting tool for much longer since poly diamond in a bed of nickel will end up leaving you with almost nothing left since they fracture away! (tho WHILE they are fracturing away they would cut much more efficiently than the mono diamonds during their short lived lifespan! Just wouldn’t be an economical product at all..) and this is yet another reason most diamond plates with their mono crystals are simply misunderstood and *overrated*

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

@@TylrVncnt I have waterstones and no way are they faster than diamonds are. How can they be? They're not made out of diamonds. Now if you made a whole waterstone out of diamonds then you just might be onto something there. You need to find Morpheus to ask them what is the matrix? Specifically a diamond matrix.

@zackeryhardy9504

Жыл бұрын

@@1pcfred I am going to also disagree with you there. The diamond stones and particles are stronger, but the strength of the particles doesn't actually necessarily mean it cuts better. I will say they do cut very fast. In fact I am a large diamond stone advocate and are always my starting point. However I do find that my shapton stones do cut way faster. When you look closely at the grit itself under a microscope you will find that what makes a larger difference is how sharp the edges are on the particles or how rough they are, the ration of the particles being too dense or not dense enough and the rate at which those particles wear. Diamonds are the hardest material, but they do still wear over a long period of time. Now the first 5 or so years will be ok, but you will find that a newer diamond plate does cut faster than an older one. The other side of things is how much give is there in the stone itself. The steel diamond stones have no give at all. Which is both their strength and weakness. This is good at the lower grits, but diamonds tones really don't work well above 1000 grit. A little bit of give in a material actually can help get it sharper because it allows the stone/strop to conform to the blade. Now this is not good when establishing an edge, but for the polishing side of sharpening it is essential. There is not an absolute amount of give needed. For example a2 tool steel will work better with a harder material for th at final 16k grit polish while a straight razor will work better with a strop. In fact you can cause damage by not taking this into account. There is actually a good video showing the damage done to a fresh razor blade by sharpening it on a shapton 16,000 grit stone vs a waterstone and the shapton stone actually damaged the razor blade. This has to do with the razor blade being a softer metal designed to work better on strop or softer material. But if you were to look at a2 cryo-treated tool steel you would not have this be the case. TLDR: there is a lot involved in sharpening that determines how fast something cuts. And diamond stones are not the fastest cutting.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

@@zackeryhardy9504 you disagree with me because you're probably not sharpening like I do. I'm not spending a whole lot of time or effort honing. I used to in the past. Today I let power machinery do the grunt work for me. I only hone the secondary bevel by hand. I do the primary on a bench grinder. I also use a honing guide. None of that freehand crap. I want every stroke precise. Because I never do too many of them. That really reduces wear and tear on my diamond plate. But after a few years it still wears out. Then I buy a new one. I only do use one too. Just a 1,000 grit. Past that I polish on Spyderco ceramic hones. I attribute a large part of my success to the cutting fluid I use on my hones too. Everyone uses something different. I use a synthetic super cleaner. It gives me a great slide. It's super slippery.

Informative!

I would usually use a Norton India stone, and found some natural smooth and flat stone around my area until I got some fine/very fine Arkansas stones. Works great, but lost the India stone so I might what to try and see the hubbub on some glass/ceramic stones about.

always always use the AB BC CA flatening routine on cheap water stones, they often have a few larger grains in them that will roll out under your edge and ruin a tiny spot on it. Water stones are EXCELLENT for standard curved kitchen knives and can be used with just running water and no soak. An 800x3000 combo is all you need in the kitchen.

@BadgerBishop

Жыл бұрын

Ah, the classic technique for flattening. I have been meaning to put it to the test and flatten something but I haven't had a need for a good flat surface yet.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't sharpen my cryo treated Henckels kitchen knives on any water stone. Diamonds and ceramics are all I ever use for sharpening. Although I have all of that other crap. Water stones, oil stones, Arkansas stones. It's the 21st century now. This is the diamond age.

2:08 1200 grit, with a strop to finish, will do just fine for woodworking (chisels, plane irons, spoke shaves). Sure, I sometimes go a good deal higher, but really, I'm just showing off to myself. 8:28 They can also be used to touch-up your carbide router bits.

I watched your other video about an inexpensive diamond plate set; mine is ordered. I have been making due, restoring and truing three planes with sand papers, mainly. I have one decent two sided oil stone, but it is narrow. I have a couple more that are larger but whoever owned them before....well, it looks like they were used to sharpen axes and lawnmower blades. There isn't a foundation block or patio block good enough to flatten out these stones. I don't know how this will go, or if worth the bother, but I plan to try a variable speed angle grinder with grinding disk; stone clamped in a vise. Probably a bad idea lol The stones are very fine, so any errors remaining after angle grinding, will still take a lot of time flattening by hand. I am burning through my sandpaper, and the good sandpaper for sharpening, at the local hardware store, is expensive. The inexpensive diamond plates I ordered should be a step up.

I like water and ceramic stones I would rather deal with water versus oil I also have Diamond stones but find the water stones cut much quicker but each to their own

I'm amazed at the kinds of things that you can learn from KZread. Thanks to you I figured out this morning why my kitchen knives aren't getting any sharper lately. The water stone is significantly bowed! Thank you for presenting this fact that seems to be missing from every instructional video about sharpening with stones - they need maintenance!

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Sway back doesn't matter so much sharpening knives. Geometry is far less important there. But water stones are garbage anyways. My cryo treated Henckels knives would just gouge water stones. Krupp steel!

Sadly, I went down all of those routes. Decided I didn't like water stones (though they worked well, once I got a good set) because of the mess and never wanted to buy a ton of diamond plates or a Tormek. I ended up watching the English Woodworker's Get Sharp series of videos and decided on a diamond plate plus oil stone. They work very well when combined with O1 or old tool steel

Hi, Rex! I just bought a really cool and what I can understand, unusual carpenters workbench. It's a fully portable, full wood work bench. Is there a discord where I can post it for you to view? Love the videos and learned a ton!

I went to diamond stones and rex is certainly right about the stones being expensive, and it takes a while to learn. But diamonds are really good with sharpening jigs for plane blades and chisels to help the newer people. I my self used this crutch and still do to get out of square planes blades

I use diamonds for most of my rough sharpening, and Arkansas stones for the fine edge. I have also taken to stropping obsessively so that I hardly need to use the stones at all.

Speaking of cermics stones have you hear of the spyderco and Norton ascend stones they don't dish at all like plates while offering a finer edge then dimond plates.

I enjoy diamonds for establishing a new bevel & gradually working it to a more refined edge, but I still move on to finish with ceramics and stropping. I find even very fine grits of diamond leave a more coarse scratch pattern than, say, their sandpaper equivalent.

Hi Rex, have you tried to sharpen a tool with sugar cubes or table salt on a block of wood

I also like the oil stones the best! The only thing is that since I don't need to sharpen tools for a living, I am still not sure what is considered the best oil for oil stones and whether or not it is true that oil stones actually work better with just water and dish soap like Dawn. I only use Smith's Honing Solution, but I do wonder if there's something better and also if water and soap is the best way to go like many claim.

First time i used a water stone i took three chunks out with my cheap lil pocket knife. I think its the exact one you have- i got it at rockler. I just use a course/mid/fine kit i got from a hunting store. It’s okay.

I went from sand paper to those cheap stones. Spent more on sand paper then on the cheap diamond plates. As a plus i also used those diamond plates to lap valve shims for my ktm 990 to get the perfect valve clearance.

i started out with whetstones and a leather strop, something like 400/1000. it honestly worked well for me for a little while till i got a king whetstone which was 1000/6000 which was a game changer for me, i've not got shapton combo ceramic stones from 320 all the way to 12000 and their probably gonna be the last stones i'll ever need to get. idk if i would recommend paying near 400 dollars for all the stones like i did but if you could afford it then get them or even just the 1000 and 5000 grit stone.

You're right abt experimenting and just returning home after spending money. I do relief printmaking and as much as I love my fellow printmakers' love of wet stones and diamond plates, I just spent a lot of money and went back to my oil stones 😂. You can get a great edge on both Japanese and European tools if you know your tool and your stones. The learning experience was still an experience though so I wasn't disappointed, just spent a bit of money trying new things.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Sharpening is one of those things where everything that's going on isn't always so readily apparent. What tools you're sharpening has an impact on how effective what you're sharpening with will be. Different steels are different hardnesses. Oil stones can work great on softer tools. Get tools a little harder then they're not so swift. With diamonds the hardness of the steel is less important.

Getting into using hand tools, and realized my 30 year old DMT stones wouldn't cut any more (Trend lapping fluid bought them back up a lot), and weren't flat, I made the decision to go with the DMT lapping plates, and got the whole collection, up to 8000. I seldom use anything under the 4000 grit stone. Once in a while I go back to the 120 grit to re=establish the primary bevel. I didn't consider the water stones because of the mess and having to maintain them. I don't, at present, have any Japanese chisels or planes, but that could change. You could do a whole show on stropping compounds. I posed the question "What do you strop on?" on the Neanderthal/hand tool part of the Sawmill Creek forums. I got a lot of interesting responses. I do have some kangaroo hide, 2 oz. since it does not compress, which I glue on some blocks of wood, but seem to prefer the compounds applied to some poplar rather than leather. You could do an episode on stropping compounds, from diamond to all the different colors. I do like to finish with 60,000 grit green stuff....

I am still at the undecided stage. I have one olde oil stone (just got it Free) and yet to be tried out and I have some cheap diamond plates which seem to work enough to give shavings of 3000th of an inch so not bad. Thanks for the share Rex, it is helping. Looking forward to settling on one style but maybe I will have a few types and vary it up. Oh the joy of choice. LOL. Cheers Rex.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Let me tell you what to do to gain decades of experience instantly. Get yourself a bench grinder with an angle adjustable tool rest to grind the primary bevel with and a honing guide to hone the rest. Bam! You'll be way ahead of most of the clowns out there. Or you can suffer interminably like everyone always does. Your choice. It's either face reality or suffer the consequences.

@ianpearse4480

Жыл бұрын

@@1pcfred Thanks for the guidance. I will bear it in mind. I have been grinding by hand on diamond stones mostly and using the oil stone for some of my chisels with good effect.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

@@ianpearse4480 the trouble with sharpening is a lot of things do work with varying degrees of effectiveness. So what ultimately matters is what works the most effectively. Because sharpening with less than the best methods gets old fast. If I had a magic wand I could just wave and make stuff sharp you'd better believe I'd be using that. What a superpower to have. Sharp Man!

Started with a dmt diamond stone and a strop...then actually switched to the 3m lapping film scary sharp method & I can use each sheet of film for quite some time & get way more polished & sharp than I would've gotten unless I got a lot of other diamond stones, which wasn't in the budget.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

I lucked out and scored a pair of Spyderco ceramic hones at a yard sale for cheap. I go off a 1,000 grit diamond plate to those and I get a bright mirror edge. But I only microbevel. I think anyone not recommending hollow grinding the primary bevel is selling a bill of goods. Trying to sharpen all by hand is for the birds.

Wow!!!! Lots Of Money!!! Thanks Rex!!!! Your Awesome!!! 😮👍😎😦

I'm still using sandpaper on a glass plate, with window cleaner 🙃

For a no nonsence sharpening method that gets you back to work fast, see Paul Sellers' video. I use his set up and now I don't spend as much time sharpening and getting more work done . Your video and advice is bang on. Thanks.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

Paul Sellers does not advocate using a bench grinder to create and maintain a primary bevel. So for that alone I have to discount his sharpening advise. Although when he ground an iron for a scrub plane he had to resort to using a hand cranked grinder to create the camber. So that alone proves you're not getting by without a grinding wheel. He's one of those full of it KZread presenters with a bogus agenda to push. But he does good work besides just being full of it.

As I recall from other videos, you use ammonia-based window cleaner to lubricate the diamond stones. The instructions that came with my stones said to use them dry or with water. What's the advantage of window cleaner?

The shapton glass stones are awesome, you should try them. And they are spray and go, so no tub of dirty water!

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

I'll see your crapton of glass and raise you a 12" bench grinder. Now it's awesome! Big, big, big wheel! It sprays metal sparks when it goes. I hollow grind all of my primary bevels on that old girl. Then honing microbevels is pretty easy to do.

I've got a full set of diamond plates, however, I most often just use a bench grinder with a home-made honing jig, works well enough and is about ten times faster for me. Biggest risk with a grinder is overheating your edge, so it requires a bit of practice.

I've spent years learning sharpening and testing pretty much all available sharpening stone types. My favorites are oil stones, oilstones will probably be the best and most economical option for most, you can get a full set for 100$ and keep them flat with sand paper. But the best are resin bonded diamonds, which are also sadly the most expensive (a single plate can be well above 100$). They mix the properties of Diamond Plates with that of Ceramic Stones. They cut really really fast because they slowly release diamonds out of the epoxy, meaning you always have fresh, sharp diamond particles. But they stay flat for a long time. They can cut any blade steel (try sharpening Rex 121 or Maxamet on friable waterstones, you'll wear the stone out). If they do need flattening, silicon carbide powder on a glass plate does the trick.

@1pcfred

Жыл бұрын

I can get a diamond plate for $6.36. Nothing is going to cut as aggressively as it can either. Not even close. I also have enough oil stones to brick up a wall with them all so I know what they're about too. I haven't seen any matrix diamonds in large hone stones. I have a vintage matrix diamond wheel. It has so many diamonds in it they glitter. It's the real deal. Due to the cost they command a lot of "matrix diamonds" are counterfeit. They contain anywhere from little to no diamond in them at all. Mostly they're just silicon carbide. People do still like even the bogus matrix stones though. Which tells you how good silicon carbide can really be.