I like that in the context of elden ring we can say “banished to the shadow realm” with zero hint of irony

@PremiumSaltProviderSalineSodiu

22 күн бұрын

YuGi. Is that you?

@HammerspaceCreature

22 күн бұрын

I'm pretty sure official sources always call it 'The Land of Shadow' and not 'The Shadow Realm', but it's still very funny because you know they're trying so hard to avoid the accidental YuGiOh reference.

@AC-hj9tv

21 күн бұрын

​@@HammerspaceCreatureanime funny

@copyninja8756

21 күн бұрын

Eh

@SH19922x

21 күн бұрын

Yeah thanks alot now we're gonna see countless naked pegasus cosplayers ruining everyone's days

I think it's pretty clear that the first burning of the Erdtree was to gain access to the Elden Ring, a lot like the second time. "Queen Marika's trespass" was a literal trespass into the Erdtree where she shattered the Elden Ring.

@Darkheart00

22 күн бұрын

wow. That’s a great interpretation. I’m not fully onboard, but the idea that NOBODY (not even Goddess Marika) is allowed to enter the Erdtree without burning the thorns is an interesting theory

@anthonyzeedyk406

22 күн бұрын

@@Darkheart00 It wasn't thorns. It's the big "stone door" that is already partially burned away when you reach Leyndell. It's not smashed or shattered; you can't find any rubble, but when you ignite the Erdtree, you can see the edges of the "stone" smoldering.

@ulasgursoy2838

22 күн бұрын

​@@Darkheart00like the original commenter said, it wasnt the thorns, since the thorns/vines are related to radagon, and they appeared to protect the elden ring after marika's shattering.

@rainbowkrampus

22 күн бұрын

Nah, Marika is a god because she is vessel to the Ring. The Ring was not stored in the tree. It was stored in her. It could be more of a One Ring scenario, where the Ring can only be destroyed within a specific location. But it can't have been about gaining access to the Ring as she already possessed it.

@anthonyzeedyk406

22 күн бұрын

@@rainbowkrampus the cinematic doesnt show her smashing her own brains out. I mean, it kind of does, but there's also some kind of object she hits that simultaneously shatters her flesh. It's possible that there is a duality where the elden ring is in a "superposition" of being both marika's body, and a separate physical object. I'll admit that the most speculative part of the theory is the reason for going into the erdtree.

When Morgott speaks of our Tarnished being “emboldened by the flame of ambition,” could he mean our newfound strength in runes granted to us by the flame of ambition, Melina?

@sniperfity2327

22 күн бұрын

It's always hard to tell when characters are speaking in metaphor or not, especially when its another language being translated into English. I dont think there is a "Flame of Ambition"

@angeryboye

22 күн бұрын

I don't think this is the case as Morgott also says things about the flame of ambition when referring to the other demigods

@Nemo12417

22 күн бұрын

Given that fire is anathema in general to Erdtree worshippers, it could just be his own personal cuss word. There has never been a person who I have literally believed to have had intercourse with their female parental figure, but that hasn't stopped me from calling them, well, let's be civil here.

@HopeiThis

22 күн бұрын

@@angeryboye Good point! Didn’t think about that.

@rainbowkrampus

22 күн бұрын

Melina is not likened to a flame. She is "one who walks alongside flame". She is kindling for a flame i.e. the flame exists separate from her. Her role, her metaphor, is that one of amplification. She grows the Tarnished in power, as she uses her body to grow the flames of the giants and possibly Messmer in the past. She even has a line about sharing your ambitions with her when you level up while she is present at a grace.

Prediction of Melina's dead body is a nice touch. Also, I would expect to find her personal Fingers dead, and possibly her shadow beast - because she could be an Empyrean.

@smashtankful

22 күн бұрын

a lion figure?

@justiceteegee9442

22 күн бұрын

I'd reckon she doesn't have her own envoy as she wasn't given the title of Emperyean, she was never given her own set of Fingers. I could be wrong but I was under the impression she wasn't one.

@jarroddt

22 күн бұрын

All the demigods has a personal two fingers, but only empyreans have shadows. Which raises the question as to where Malenia and Miquella's are or if they even had them to begin with. But i agree that Melina isnt an empyrean, she isn't an ordinary demigod either if she is one though. Shes much more her own thing​@justiceteegee9442

@Grimsly3736

22 күн бұрын

Dude I heard that and instantly thought “her dead body is gonna be a f*ckin boss fight huh” and if she’s the Gloam-Eyed queen? We’re so f*cked

@VaNiTIII

21 күн бұрын

@@jarroddt incorrect

I was about to go hollow and just like that Tarnished appears like a soft, warm, bonfire

@Funhater

22 күн бұрын

Same.

@KitsuneShapeShifter

22 күн бұрын

HUMANITY RESTORED

@CombatComics

22 күн бұрын

Disclaimer: do not hug soft fires

@euphoricganjanath5625

22 күн бұрын

@@CombatComics I could have used that advice 3 hours ago LOL

@edmaister

21 күн бұрын

Don’t you dare go hollow!

Miyazaki said that Messmer is akin to a hero. I think Marika asked him to burn the erdtree and start a new age but she also new he would have to be punished for it. That would make him a savior and a sinner.

@georgesame2118

22 күн бұрын

That actually makes sense. There is a lot of evidence that she plays both ends against each other to suit whatever goals she has.

@criticman123

9 күн бұрын

Serpent in the Garden being the fall guy for Gd type beat

@Vaga-Bard

5 күн бұрын

@@criticman123fall guy.? That’s what you call that.? He was actually in the wrong, not framed. Lol.

Fire not only brings death, but also rebirth for new, fresh, and stronger life. Life can only thrive when death is present, for death is the one to bring meaning to life. Immortal ones do not "live forever," but actually "decay eternally" in their perpetual state of infinity.

@LizardOnAMushroom2358

22 күн бұрын

There's a missed opportunity here as there are some species of mushrooms, most notably morels, which are part of the rejuvenation process of burned forests. I know what they are doing takes into account so much complexity already, but the addition of fungus might have made for a more complete picture of the "death, resurrection, life" themes

@AC-hj9tv

21 күн бұрын

​@@LizardOnAMushroom2358erdtree is mushroom confirmed

@OleDirtyMacSanchez

21 күн бұрын

Don't forget the Immortal Jellyfish. It has the remarkable ability to essentially start it's life over again, and again, and again, by reverting back to a state of a child.

@jessiesewell4076

21 күн бұрын

The Green! Life!

@codypatton2859

5 күн бұрын

Which is precisely the loophole in the Golden Order stated to be proven by the existence of Those Who Live in Death.

There is a theory out there that states that the first burning is in fact of the shadow tree, which heavily implies the lands of shadow to be in the center of the map and that the leyndell ashes are from the shadow tree, which would be near Leyndell. But this would mean the erdtree seeds came from this tree and that the illusory tree doesn't exist. Perhaps the very veil covers the shadowtree and turns it into the erdtree we know into an object of worship. It also implies that we are burning both trees. This theory fits so beautifully that i expect it to be completely falsified on release, lol.

@Tower-kn1dr

13 күн бұрын

Bok(the monkey human that is friendly) appearently cant see Erd tree.

@nightmare4lol

13 күн бұрын

the only thing I ever wonder is how does a spectral tree create real ash

We did see a burning female body in the newest lore trailer. My thought is that that is Melina. I also think that people assumed Melina’s mother was Marika, but I’m starting to wonder if Melina’s mother is the Gloam Eyed Queen, who looks a lot like her mother, who Ranni modeled her doll after. Thus, the one eye closed similarities between them.

This is probably the best counter to the Melina is Miquella theory I've heard so far and whether one wins or they both tie together I can't wait to jump into the DLC

@NocturnalNick

22 күн бұрын

ez counter imo is Miquella seems to want to guide us to him/what he was doing (assuming the "withered arm" quote is him), but Melina is quite singularly focused on guiding us to become Elden Lord. You can try and force it to work by saying Miquella/Trina are technically different people (even though the theory posits they work in tandem), but mainly, what's the point? With the info we have now, it just sounds like EPIC DEEPEST LORE for the sake of it, which I believe Miyazaki is above. Another small point, Miyazaki said the DLC doesn't affect the base game or vice versa. If they're the same person, it'd be kinda awkward if you go in after burning Malenia and Miquella just didn't care

@oduttagupta

20 күн бұрын

Melina is Miquella

@r1ngs400

18 күн бұрын

Perhaps Melina never had a physical body to begin with, maybe her mother is actually St.Trina who only ever appeared in a non-corporeal form. Might explain her deep purple, possibly sleep colored, eye at the frenzied flame ending.

@noamias4897

17 күн бұрын

What I enjoy about lore diving before the DLC is seeing the different camps people jump into. Melina is St. Trina, Melina is Miquella, Melina is Messmer and Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen (or any combinations of those characters being or not being the same) is so interesting and I'll be happy no matter what conclusions we can draw from the DLC. My hopes are that we get to see the shadows of Miquella and Melania or at least learn what they are

@yeahr1ghty

15 күн бұрын

The best counter evidence to this is the very strong case that Melina is the spirit of the deceased GEQ. Who Marika simply mind wiped when she resurrected her spirit. And the GEQ predates Miquellas birth so.... The Miquella = Malenia theories have never been taken that seriously by people that really study the lore, its just appealing to people who don't know much.

I always got the vibe that the grave next to the minor erdtree church with the flame butterfly and the erdtree guardian mourning at it might be Melina's grave.

@maebae5350

22 күн бұрын

I'm so happy someone else thought that too. When From puts very specific locations like that with specific items (especially if they're not unique/common items) I always try to think what they meant by it. This channel has pointed out how keen they are on environmental storytelling, so a grave off to the side of a unique church with a unique tree that just has flame butterflies of all things at it simply has to be saying something

@crestfallenhussar895

22 күн бұрын

@@maebae5350 They have talked about the church before I believe in regards to it seeming to have a connection to Miquella due to the tree inside looking more like the Haligtree in shape. Who knows with souls games though. Just always felt like that enemy behaving so different has to mean something.

Great video. I think the timeline is greatly clarified if we assume that each burning of the Erdtree is associated to the fall of an Elden Lord, and the ending of an age. There are then two important rebellions against the Erdtree, which should not be conflated. The first was engineered by Melina and Messmer, and likely resulted in: the first burning of the Erdtree, the removal of the Lands of Shadow from the Lands Between, the removal of Destined Death from the Elden Ring, Godfrey's fall from grace, and the end of the Age of Plenty. Likely Melina can also be identified with the GEQ, but this is not essential. Narratively it is not clear why this should have caused Godfrey's fall, but thematically it all checks out. Godfrey's purpose was to defeat the giants and confine the Flame of Ruin, allowing the Erdtree to grow. If the Erdtree burned, Godfrey failed in his essential duty. Moreover Godfrey is strongly associated with the Crucible, which in turn is associated to the Lands of Shadow. On the other hand Godfrey is not associated with the Golden Order - that's all Radagon. So I think the removal of the Lands of Shadow, the removal of Destined Death, the change in attitude to the Crucible, Godfrey's fall, and the end of the Age of Plenty/beginning of the Golden Order should all line up. Maybe the Liurnian wars were already underway at this time and Radagon was immediately recalled, or maybe there was a long interval in between - I don't think we have the information to decide. The second (important) rebellion against the Erdtree was led by Ranni and Rykard (direct, conscious parallels to Melina and Messmer): The Night of Black Knives, the Shattering, and the end of the Golden Order and Radagon's reign. Importantly, this plot was not completed - it does not seem that Rykard succeeded in burning the Erdtree (or perhaps he burned it, but could not gain access to it to kill Radagon, his forces being repulsed by Morgott? This would then account for the recent layer of ash, which Messmer's actions seem too distant in the timeline to explain.) Additionally, Radahn arrested Ranni's fate. It is not until we burn the Erdtree and defeat Radagon that this second age transition is completed (according to the original plan only if we align with Ranni). Marika's own intentions in both instances are obscure (of course). Melina says that her purpose was given to her by her mother, inside the Erdtree - this may have been before or after the first rebellion. I wonder also whether the well-developed, corporeal Minor Erdtrees are the results of seeds flown from the first burning, and only the small illusory ones where we find Golden Seeds the result of the Shattering. It would make sense that seeds from the original corporeal tree would produce corporeal offspring, whereas seeds from the Erdtree as we know it would produce illusory trees. The fact that the tree in the Minor Erdtree Church has a similar appearance to the tree in the Land of Shadow supports this. It also seems probable that that church was constructed before the Shattering, since Marika's monologue at that location declares her "intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order" - unlikely to have occurred after she shattered the Elden Ring!

@Jizzan

21 күн бұрын

Holy crap, the idea of the minor erdtrees growing from one king of seed and the golden ones being from another one is spot on. Maybe the erdtree avatars hat protect them, also come from the seeds(the golden seeds that we loot from the little golden trees).

@funnybunnygirl1

20 күн бұрын

I'm going to speculate that Marika might have been plotting against fingers with Ranni, and wanted the age to end by shattering the elden ring, for which she was crucified. Radagon, her other half was in opposition, and so he mended the elden ring and potentially wanted to prolong the golden age and halt Rannis fate

@cammyshill3099

7 күн бұрын

I love how people in this comment section confidently say things like "each burning of the Erdtree" like they're talking about something that has still some relation to the game they're supposedly talking about. I'm sorry, what burnings of the Erdtree? No such events are ever recorded in any of the text of the game, nor ever mentioned by any characters, nor ever entertained by anyone in the actual game, with the actual game actually making it pretty clearly that burning the Erdtree is a monumental task, literally made impossible by the double binding of the Flame of Ruin and the Rune of Death. No one could have burned the Erdtree if not the Giants who controlled the Flame of Ruin back when Death was still unbound, but they lost and the Erdtree was allowed to flourish. After that Death was sealed, so that even if someone were to be able to reignite the Flame of Ruin through the sacrifice of a maiden capable of envisioning flame (which isn't any random maiden either I'm afraid, only Melina or the literal Flame of Frenzy could do the job for us) it would be useless against the Erdtree, as it would simply not burn at all. The theory that the Erdtree was ever burned before our time is, to put it bluntly, nonsense. It should be amply referenced in the game's text, and it's not. It should be something we come to know about it when we burn the thing, but we don't. We are supposed to look at dust in an abandoned city to figure this out, but dust isn't indicative of anything. This is by far the dumbest theory around in the Elden Ring lore community, and I feel it actively harm our understanding of the game by chasing after pretty fanfiction completely removed from the actual story of the game that gets systematically misconducted on purpose for the sake of making it crudely fit into stuff that is even contemplated by the game's story.

Oh man, its been staring in my face all this time, I would have just ignore the ash everywhere at first coming to Lyndell.

You sir are a treasure to this community. Thank you!

yo Ratatoskr was wondering if he could have you on for a podcast episode to talk about lore stuff, you really should, it would be cool to hear you talk about lore stuff in an unscripted way, that way you can maybe expand upon certain ideas that you didn't get into videos. either way, im so glad you've been posting more elden ring lore videos. So hyped to see more in the next few months!!

@tarnishedarchaeologist

21 күн бұрын

sounds like fun

The concept of Grafting is interesting as it’s a real life process of taking limbs of other trees and attaching them to an existing tree to grow on, with people even growing hybrid trees with this process Possibly an inspiration for Godrick the Grafted who is apart of a lineage which came from the erdtree Another excellent video TA, cheers 🍻

@tarnishedarchaeologist

21 күн бұрын

Yup, we made a whole video on grafting!

@eldric.stoneskin

21 күн бұрын

@@tarnishedarchaeologist I’ll have to check it out! Cheers!

A theory I've had about the Land of Shadow and the Lion Dancer specifically: the Land of Shadow is tied to the Lands Between in a sort of "as above, so below" way, and the Lion Dancer is a sort of spiritual reflection of the Golden Lineage. The lion, of course, is Godfrey. The lightning represents Godwyn at his height and the smoke it exhales is Godwyn at his nadir, and it also has Omen horns, for Morgott and Mogh.

@jessiesewell4076

21 күн бұрын

That's a good call, but remember the Grafted Blade bears the Lion Crest. Godfrey's life seemed complicated and violent.

@nickytheanimal2413

19 күн бұрын

Lol nadir is my favorite black tongue album

@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710

18 күн бұрын

so iv'e been chasing the magical manticore for 2 years now(its on the briar set with no mention of the beast) and with that trailer, iv'e come to a pretty crackpot hypothesis that would be awesome if it's true. That lion dancer is as you say related to Mohg, Morgott and Godwyn. But perhaps has a second phase spreading wings like Mohg and tail like Morgott, it would be similar to the opening boss to DS1's dlc area, which I'm pretty sure was a manticore.

@codypatton2859

5 күн бұрын

You're reaching way too far with this I feel like.

@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710

3 күн бұрын

@@codypatton2859 I admit I am, they put that manticore on the shoulder of the briar set just to mess with me, lol. Could just be a reference, fromsoft likes to do that. But what's interesting to me is there looks like a valkrye sheathing it's sword over the defeated but not dead manticore. The image makes me think the manticore was the avatar of rot that got sealed in melania with the help of some knight on a horse with wings. Its hard to make out, but one of the medalions on the briar set looks like torrent with wings, stomping on the manticores head, with the night piercing it with a lance. The wound spot is the some spot as the wound on the crucified demon lady on the hands and legs of the set, and in a similar spot as marika's, who's image is still praised in the church of the plague.

People call bullshit on a lot of the conclusions you draw, but man, I really think you nailed it. I think your timeline is probably about as close as we're gonna get to a true history of Elden Ring.

@tristanneal9552

20 күн бұрын

He literally predicted Messmer to a T based on Volcano Manor (which we now know is related to Messmer based on the manor drapes being Messmer's cape). Man is GOATd fr

@MrParedex

18 күн бұрын

Who says its bullshit?

@noamias4897

17 күн бұрын

When reaching far for connections you're bound to not be 100% right but even if you get 1% of what you say right you're worth listening to

@cammyshill3099

7 күн бұрын

It's literally all nonsense.

@Vaga-Bard

5 күн бұрын

@@tristanneal9552Zulie the witch called the DLC too. A year ago. Even mentioned another state and the arm at mohgwyn palace. Deduced it all from lichdragon forisax fighting the death blight in Godwin the Golden’s dreams. Crazy call but it’s on the money.

Ah man I love that Vernor Herzog clip! Props

This was basically my first theory when the DLC trailer came out. If Messmer was the one who burned first the Erdtree, the only way the timeline makes sense for me is, that the first burning and the shattering of the Elden Ring are two entirely separate events. During the Age of Plenty (Godfrey's reign) Messmer burns the Erdtree, ending the Age of Plenty and making the Snake a traitor, which leads to the Snakes being fought in the Colloseums, and Messmer banished to the Shadow Realm (which I think was created earlier when the Rune of Death was separated from the Elden Ring). The Shattering of the Elden Ring and the ensuing events happened later. The issue is, that this doesn't fit super nicely with your theme of cyclical burns of the Erdtree and the Golden Seed item description, which clearly talkes about the Shattering, but also makes a lot of sense to be connected with the burning, following your forest-fire/pine-cone story.

@jerryb216

22 күн бұрын

I also feel the shattering was a ways after whatever happened with Mesimer and the end of the age of plenty. It makes me think that Marika was slowly losing faith after the burning and Godwyn dying was the just the straw that broke the camels back

@ghostflossy2403

22 күн бұрын

The real question is who is messmer parents?

@jonathan0225

22 күн бұрын

@@ghostflossy2403 here me out, no evidence just vibes and crack. messmer's thing is snake, black flame/flame. and then his relation with Marika...what if, messmer's parents are gloam eyed queen (or someone related to) and radagon (Marika's male form)? nobody knew Marika's secret around the radagon era, and messmer seem to pre-date the marika/radagon union and probably ran during the Godfrey era.

@timkom2289

22 күн бұрын

I also understand it as there was age of plenty, then was Erdtree burned and we got age of not plenty, but ok-ish, then the death of Godwyn, shattering and civil war comes and our tarnished hero joins the game. And about the golden seed description my theory is there was one elden ring shattering also around the time of burning tree and was mended again without the death rune. (I don't believe marika could simply unplug the rune without some cataclysmic event.) It would also fit nicely in the timeline when the seed had time to grow into Minor Eldtrees. Also here I have my own crazy theory. Marika was concern about her own mortality, so the whole first burning of Eldtree carried by Messmer was just cover-up operation, to get rid of death rune, which was her main goal. She Maybe even banished Godfrey and his wariors before the burning to be sure nobody will stop Messmer. And after it was done, Messmer was hidden (locked?) in the Land of shadows.

@jonathan0225

22 күн бұрын

@@timkom2289 I like your theory. this first theory was a success which resulted to a new golden age, the eternal. it parallels the night of the black knives and the shattering but radagon was there to stop her. in the end, he was her own undoing. on the next round of burning, it's up to Godfrey's kin (us) to decide what to do next. i wonder if Marika understood at that first burning moment that fire (that bring a new beginning) is the necessary ingredient to the lands in between's cycle?? (i.e. gloam eyed queen's flame/death birds/ messmer)

Took an extremely long nap. Awoke to new TA while I get my DLC character ready. Good evening being made.

Glad to hear you reemphasizing the significance and accuracy with which the devs looked to real plant biology to reinforce both the physical logic of this world, and the themes extrapolated therein. Also, thank you for including one of my favorite examples of Herzog herzog-ing. Ppl should definitely search for him expounding upon his contemplations of the “jungee” 😂

I don't know if you meant "physically moved", when you mentioned the burned Erdtree being "banished" to the Shadowlands. But I think they occupy the same physical space. The spectral Erdtree is a guise created by the same veil that hides it's true form, and covers the land of shadow. All of this makes sense, if you take to account that the rear part of the Erdtree is facing the vast ocean in the middle of the Lands Between, where the Shadowlands supposedly is hidden.

@chef5588

21 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment, I was wondering why burning an illusionary tree would create more ash but if they occupy the same space then perhaps we're burning both trees without knowing it (yet).

@Darkheart00

21 күн бұрын

@@chef5588 I think we’re really just burning the stump. This is all HEAVY theorising and speculation: Marika banished the Land of Shadow as a separate plane of existence, despite originally being in the Lands Between. I think this means that anything we do to the Erdtree in the Lands Between will not affect the Shadow Tree, despite being geographically right where the Erdtree is, because they exist in different existences now. The Erdtree that we burn, I believe, is mostly an illusion. And the thing we ACTUALLY burn is just a stump of the Erdtree, not the actual tree… because the ACTUAL tree was banished with the Land of Shadow I’ll also try to justify the smaller size of the ShadowTree compared to the Erdtree, with little we currently know: in terms of *Lore* , the Shadowtrees smaller size could easily be explained as being the “real” tree, and that the Erdtree we see all the time is just an exaggerated illusion - which may explain its size, lore wise. From a *gameplay* perspective, the Land of Shadow is of course much smaller than the Lands Between, hence - the Iconic landmark (Erdtree) of the ShadowLands needs to reflect a proportional reflection of the size of the overall DLC - allowing for the visibility of the Tree to be that much more potent, just as how the Erdtree in the basegame is incredibly visually potent due to its proportional size to the Lands Between and stuff like being able to visualise it even from large distances such as Castle Morne

I've heard theories that the root twisting around the burned Erdtree in the Land of Shadow is part of Godwyn's deathroot, but I'm more partial to the theory that it's an aspect of the crucible, and Messmer burned the Erdtree for that perceived impurity. I also think that, like the Night of the Black Knives, the Erdtree's first burning was an event that Marika publicly distanced herself from while being deeply involved behind the scenes.

I like to think that Messmer burnt the Erdtree "in body" while we, players, burn it again "in soul" and that's what allows us to restart the cycle fully (and that this somehow relates to Melina being burn just in body)

Perhaps part of the sunken piece of Leyndell you discussed in one of your previous videos was transported to the Shadowlands. Maybe this is why the upper portion of the Great Tree is cut off.

@tarnishedarchaeologist

21 күн бұрын

Now that's a testable hypothesis! We shall see, come June 21.

I did it! I'm finally all caught up. I found this channel about a week ago and been binge religiously watching 2 videos or more a day. Even while at the office. 😅 Man, what a journey this was! Your videos are fascinating and I'm so glad this was recommended by one of my coworkers.

Having watched the video, if Messmer burnt the Erdtree during the Age of Plenty, would that preclude the possibility of him being Radagon and Marika's son? The Age of Plenty of was King Godfrey's era, after all, and Radagon and Marika would have only married and had kids together well after that fact.

@Darkheart00

22 күн бұрын

Weirdly enough, I think that’s accurate. Despite him being named with an ‘M’, and with Red hair, everything in the lore we have (with the little we are able to connect it to the DLC so far) speaks to me as Messmer being an ancient child. Perhaps the first child…but more accurately, I think Messmer was probably the worst child, a false-child, everything that Marika once represented but later abandoned, including Messmer. My main theory (RIGHT NOW, due to the lack of context before June 21st) is that he’s a bastard. Messmer is of Marika’s and an unnamed father’s (related to the crucible) bastard child. I also have a theory (VERY LIGHT. Don’t take this too seriously), that Messmer IS a child of Radagon and Marika… but when Radagon wasn’t considered her consort. Perhaps Radagon was a concept in Marika’s life even in the early days, perhaps Marika attempted the “Radagon experiment” multiple times. And if this is the case, perhaps Messmer was the initial bastard child of Marika and Radagon, before Marika married to Godfrey, then later perfecting Godhood by reinterpreting the “Radagon experiment” with Golden Order Fundamentalism. Don’t take this 2nd paragraph too serious. It’s just food-for-thought.

@superlosia1234

21 күн бұрын

There's a viable theory that Messmer is the surviving son of the GEQ and was adopted by Queen Marika. He's got a lot of similarities to the Godskins, serpent posture, black flame, and obsidian is placed in his spear. The only weapons in the game to have obsidian slotted, is the blade of the GEQ herself and the Godskins armor.

@Ben10Blader

21 күн бұрын

I think it's possible that if Marika and Radagon were always one entity (a whole other discussion) then it's not that crazy that they'd create their own first "perfect" child in secret away from Godfrey, or just lie and say Messmer is Godfrey's child too.

Great ideas, though I'd propose that the "Shadow of the Erdtree" we see in the DLC maybe something like a chronological echo of how the Erdtree looked when it was burned the first time. This would be like a monument to Mesmer's treachery, an eternal reminder of why he has been banished from the Lands Between.

I imagine the timeline is about, age of ancients, age of beasts, age of warriors( godfreys rein and the buring of the erdtree), age of faith/golden order, age of heresy( the shattering), and the modern age. Where society is rebuilding again rallying behind new and old banners

@jessiesewell4076

21 күн бұрын

Exactly this! We find ancestral followers above ground... worshiping minor Erdtrees...

@Dangerman-zg3ui

20 күн бұрын

"age of ancients" these the ancient fire giants that built the divine towers?

@sniperfity2327

20 күн бұрын

@@Dangerman-zg3ui Yeah i think of that time period kinda like Prehistory, before man. Its possible the towers were originally built by the Giants and/or dragon kindgdoms, then later conqured by man and beast

@sniperfity2327

20 күн бұрын

@@jessiesewell4076 Maybe back in the day, Before Marika, there were More "erdtrees" like the one we see, maybe not as big, but as society progressed, worship began to focus on one god/tree. And it so happens to be the biggest and most powerful one near the center. Now that many cannot even see it, minor erdtrees have began to root new gods and new ideas.

@matheussantos9367

19 күн бұрын

I personally agree, but I think between age of beasts (Ancient Dragons) and age of warriors (Godfrey's Reign alongside Marika) there's an age between, which would be like our Roman Empire era, which would be the arrival of the Numen and Marika's ascension to Godhood.

Based on your assumption at 25:10 one may almost think that the burned tree in the land of shadow was the origin of the first layer of ash and was later stashed away by Marika and replaced by a new Erdtree which in its growing stage was emitting the much sought after sap and when it regrew to maturity, the sap stopped falling. So the sap is essentially evidence that the tree was 'recently' regrown. The wrapped tree part was probably an attempt of Marika to support the burning tree to keep it from falling over but when she realized that all is lost, she booted Messmer and an entire chunk of landscape into the new dimension. Hence the big gap in the map and the Erdtree emerging from the ocean instead of the ground

I hope Ranni's master is also someone banished to the shadow realm, would love to see her in the upcoming DLC. I remember so many creators referring to your "the erdtree is an illusion" video, It's thanks to them I've been able to be on this crazy ride with you since your second video. thank you for all your hard work and I hope this channel and your video-format remains even post DLC lore-hunting :)

What I don’t understand about Melina is, why does she need to be the Kindle Maiden? Why do we need to burn her, in order to burn the Erdtree? What exactly is she? What exactly does it mean that she was born at the foot of the Erdtree? Is she a part of the tree itself that’s fallen off? Is that why burning her, burns the tree?

@superlosia1234

21 күн бұрын

Because we don't know the complete ritual requirements. It's likely that an empyrean's body or soul is needed to create an erdtree or burn it. We see this with Miquella implanting himself into the haligtree and how that tree died without his empyrean blood nourishing it.

@lonnelwright318

21 күн бұрын

@@superlosia1234 I didn't think Melina was an empyrean, though. Empyreons have 2 gods (like Marika, Radagon, etc) as their parents, right? But I haven't seen Melina directly tied to anyone, or anything, but the Erdtree. She says she was born at the foot of the Erdtree and her mother blah blah... so for the longest time, I just assumed that Marika was her mother because she's the only person inside the Erdtree. But I don't think Melina ever mentions Marika by name, does she? And she doesn't say she was born INSIDE the Erdtree. She says at the foot. Just seeing how literally a lot of other agricultural inspiration was adopted into this game; what if the Kindling Maiden is literally just that - kindling that's fallen from her "mother" the Erdtree?

@Sang-AKim

21 күн бұрын

@@lonnelwright318 She does mention Marika by name when you visit the churches of Marika. She echoes Marika's words. But she never calls Marika her mother. She calls her Queen Marika like everybody else does. She also implies that she wasn't born "of a mother". I think it's when she is talking about Boc the seamster. She say's something that implies that she doesn't know what it's like to "born of a mother". It was something "does being born of a mother make you behave that way". Like @superlosia1234 said, we don't know how the erdtree was created. But I have been having a feeling that Melina is a part of the erdtree as well and sees that as her mother. In the game, we never actually burn the erdtree. We burn Melina in a completely different location, and the erdtree then catches fire as well. So it makes sense to think she is a part of the tree and when we burn her, the whole thing catches fire. But isn't the tree part of the elden ring? when radagon tries to repair the ring, like he said in this video, he makes that vine fence thing on the erdtree itself as if fixing the tree would fix the ring. So if Melina is part of the tree, wouldn't that also make her part of the elden ring?

@2DFightergaming

21 күн бұрын

@@superlosia1234 What do you mean exactly by the ritual requirements? We know Melina is required to burn the Erdtree. I doubt any empyrean could fill that role, or why specifically would we have a "Kindling Maiden', when any empyrean would do? So what makes Melina uniqeuly able to burn the erdtree? As another commenter pointed out, we don't actually ever burn the erdtree... we burn Melina in a different location, and the Erdtree burns with her. Why exactly would that happen if she's not somehow a part of the Erdtree itself?

@jimmyharper1482

11 күн бұрын

It’s somewhat complicated by the fact that apparently any regular finger maiden can serve as kindling as well - granted, we don’t know enough to definitively say that they aren’t also offshoots of the tree rather than normal people and/or that Shabiri telling Vyke he’d have to burn his maiden was just a play to make him more accepting of the frenzied flame, but there’s no real evidence of either of those things in-game and what we’re presented with has at least two classes of people, finger maidens and Melina, whose burning can burn the erdtree Melina being THE kindling maiden is still interesting though. Are all finger maidens imitations of her powers and fate after she disappeared/became a spirit?

When I saw "archaeology", I knew I was going to be in for some great videos. I never even thought about how much storytelling you could gleam just from looking at things, how many stories the developers put beyond more direct text allusions. Throughout your series you've clearly shown the hard work and thorough research the developers have put into making a living world with a rich history mirroring our own, whether it be the pre-historic Ancient Dynasty mirroring early human empires like Sumeria that formed in Mesopotomia, the Eternal Cities mirroring the cultural genesis of Rome and finally Marika's empire mirroring the rise of monotheistic religions. In essence, you've shown how Elden Ring is a celebration of all of human history and is really a treatise on different cultures intermingling creating particular identities people come to represent and embrace. Thank you for your wonderful videos.

A bit of diversion from the video, but damn that narrator has to be the best I've ever listened to. The voice, the emotion he puts into it, it's just unparalleled!

I may not fully understand it, but does this mean (or it’s possible) that Melina was Messmers Finger maiden? Or sharing a similar relationship?

Your detailed analysis has made this game far more enjoyable for me. Whenever I stumble into archaeological or symbolic pieces in the game, it gives them a whole new meaning. Thanks for all of your hard work!!

Thank you for bringing this up, this is the crucial piece of lore that Miyazaki said was staring us in the face yet we didn't notice. (he's referring to the E3 trailer.) I cant wait to see what's in store to surprise us given how much we already know.

We can safely assume the erdtree in the base game is almost entirely spectral since we can see through it (best case being able to see the Full Moon through it). I believe the tree was burned before, and it started to fall, and to prevent this, Marika or someone else made another tree for the sole purpose of hoisting it up to keep it from falling over. In order to keep the public from losing faith in the Golden Order, Marika or the Elden Beast put the physical erdtree into the Land of Shadow and replaced it with the radiant gold tree we see throughout the game. This illusion is failing by the time we reach Limgrave however, since we can clearly see the golden hue is fading and the tree is still tilting (and we find out it might be fully severed from its roots). I also believe the city around the Shadow Tree is part of Leyndell. The city in the base game seems to abruptly be cut-off at the cliff-side, so it would make sense if the other half of the city were placed in the Land of Shadow whenever Marika and Radagon decided to purge the lands of those who resemble the Crucible. In other words, the Land of Shadow is a land-mass that was previously in the center of the current known map. Only exception being that the Eastern side was obviously part of Farum Azula. Perhaps Messmer and Melina worked together to burn the tree, and it failed because Messmer's flame is likely not as potent as the Giant's Flame, but was enough to wound the tree.

Thank god you posted this while im on a long road trip. You are the best TA, truly.

Was directed here after watching The Serpent and the Erdtree video, excellent upload timing.

@Darkheart00

22 күн бұрын

That video is soo fascinating. On its own, but also as an almost prophetical video to Shadow of the Erdtree’s trailer and interviews. I always give it a rewatch.

@AC-hj9tv

21 күн бұрын

​@@Darkheart00can we watch it together

I’m only 7 min in so I’m sure you’ll address it, but assuming the erd tree burned during the shattering that highly supports the theory that the current erd tree is a sort of “phantom” tree and has literally burned before and only those chosen by grace can see it now bc it’s no longer physically there. Amazing how much speculation we could gather from the very beginning

@cammyshill3099

7 күн бұрын

It's impossible for the Erdtree to burn at that time. You would need the flame of ruin, a maiden capable of igniting that flame, and to kill Malekith, all at once, in order to do such a thing, it's literally the main plot of the game. And no, the Erdtree is not some kind of "phantom", it's literally there, and we physically burn it and it physically covers a large city in ash, for pete's sake.

@Quader417

7 күн бұрын

@@cammyshill3099 why wouldn’t it be impossible? I’m saying the physical tree burned when the Elden ring itself was shattered by Marika, the Erdtree is a physical manifestation of the ring itself. The only reason we have to meet all those criteria is because we are tarnished and cannot manipulate the ring at will like Marika. And buddy it’s a video game. There’s literally a power called GHOST FLAME. The tree burning and producing ash is NOT concrete evidence of it being a physical tree. You can quite literally see right through it for pete’s sake. I’m not saying the phantom tree is a fact I’m saying it’s a theory. Its fine if ur opinion does not align with the theory but as of right now u haven’t presented any proof against it either.

@cammyshill3099

6 күн бұрын

@@Quader417 I literally just explained you why it's impossible. The tree can only be burned by the Flame of Ruin, if you have an adequate kindling maiden, and assuming that the Rune of Death is unshackled. This is the plot of the game, the one that forces you into a detour into forbidden, closed off, faraway region because it's the only way to burn even a few thorns. Also, good Lord. Are you listening to yourself? The tree burning and producing ash is not evidence of it being physical? We burn a fake tree with fake fire that drops fake ash and fake giant wooden branches on top of a fake city? And there's never a single mention of such fakeness in any of the game's texts and dialogues? Is anything real anymore in this Matrix interpretation of Elden Ring? What am I listening to!? Do you people even play the game? It's like you're all talking about some other version no one ever saw of played. None of these plot points are ever hinted, mentioned or referred anyway in the actual thing. The Erdtree is real and physical. There is nothing in the game to suggest otherwise. You literally walk into the thing down at Leyndell. The Erdtree is not see-through, the few times it appears so it seems to be a graphical glitch in a few regions that goes away by looking at it with a telescope, and this feature doesn't even show up at all when looking at the thing from most regions anyway. Literally made up stuff. The theory is completely wrong and stupid. The Shattering of the Elden Ring is not associated with any burning. No description of the Shattering ever even hint at it, and as explained above the Erdtree is literally indestructible as long as Maliketh lives. Ghost Flame is irrelevant to the discussion. Yes, this is a video game. It has text, and a story. Please, when talking about this game's story try to refer to the actual thing, so you can avoid coming up with blatant nonsense never mentioned at any point in the video game we're talking about. Also, do not ask people to come up with evidence for your schizo theories, that's your job when trying to argue that everything we interacted in the game was a lie and the real story is so badly written you have to reconstruct it out of nothing, ash and glitchy graphics.

@Quader417

6 күн бұрын

@@cammyshill3099 the tree can only be burned by the flame of ruin BY TARNISHED. Marika is not Tarnished she literally manipulates the ring at will. If she destroys the ring then who is to say the tree also doesn’t get destroyed? And good Lord I’m listening to myself perfectly. U should try it sometime. Its not a “fake” tree its a PHANTOM tree and again its a VIDEO GAME that literally has GHOST FLAME. U have absolutely ZERO evidence that the tree is physical. Ya I’ve played the game for over a thousand hours. You should try it. What I’m saying might make more sense to u if u actually played the game. You can quite literally SEE THROUGH THE TREE. It absolutely is hinted at, if u disagree then go find Tarnished Archeologists video on it and argue about it with him. Whats your proof the erdtree is physical? There is plenty in the game suggesting otherwise. Who has said it was a graphical glitch? That is ur ASSUMPTION. That’s your OPINION. Keep it. I have my own opinion. If u dont like my opinion. Oh well. Dude just because something has not been outright said in an item description doesn’t mean nothing hints at it 🤣 the entire point of souls games are to use the world building to come to conclusions and not have everything outright handed to u. Lol when did i ever say the game was a “lie”? Just bc details are not outright presented to u on a silver platter does not make it a lie. U sound goofy as fuck and u have no argument against anything I’ve said. Do better.

@Redactedlllllllllllll

4 күн бұрын

​@cammyshill3099 so when you find out you're wrong will you apologize for all the vitriol or just pretend you weren't acting like a dogmatic weirdo in comment sections?

THANKS! For articulating so well what some of us have been saying since the trailer

Oh boy can't wait for your story trailer vid man, so hyped

I just started watching your videos. I think you make some of the most interesting and insightful Elden Ring content out there. Keep up the amazing work! I can't imagine the big brain it takes to put all these pieces together

Outstanding as usual

I watch so much random shit, but I can say that your channel has easily become my favorite. Thanks big dawg 💙🔥

Most of the time when I watch your videos I am completely mind blown and wouldn’t have seen your biggest points coming. This time though, I’m part of a community of lore enthusiasts, many of whom are huge fans of yours, and we were all on the same page with you, even having discussions about many of the things you expressed in your video. I cannot tell you how thrilling they was and how validating and gratifying!!! You’re among the best of the best out there and you’re still pumping out masterpieces. Thank you!!! It’s a 10/10 from me(h)!!!!

Tarnished Archaeologist drinking game: take a shot every time he says "inextricably"

Am I correct that, at the start of the game, the erdtree itself is no longer giving off any sap but the offshoot new trees you see all over the map still do. And those offshoots are being taken care of by guardians that originally the pre-Marika tree produced and governed over, but now they are adopted by Marika's faith? Addendum: If I got my timeline right, During the shattering war, the erdtree burned. So somebody managed to get a kindling maiden to the flame. But Morgoth was successfull in preventing any access to the ring itself, so no Elden Lord was put on the throne after Marika went missing. I'd even wager that the All-knowing needed us to defeat Morgoth because he couldn't. So it's after we beat Morgoth for the last time that we finally see him make his play for the throne.

I like how much effort was put into this KZread video ❤️🙏

In all seriousness, I truly believe we will discover Melina is a reincarnation of an aspect of Marikas soul as the only wa Marika could escape her prison. She then hid her soul sliver within the Trees grace to find a tarnished that would serve Marikas cause instead of the Greater Wills, and thus spends eons looking for one tarnished that would/could aid her... "I Propose to you, an accord..." is not only Marika/Melina offering a pact, but also marriage with Elden Lord being her dowry. The recreation of RTH is a space within Marika where the Greater Will cannot see. Melina is unknown to everyone, never recognized by name. Melina is an actual type of engagement ring, btw..some of its designs similar to Torrents whistle... Im putting All my runes in that dowry basket. I love your videos. I really do.. But she's an engagement ring and secret agent of Marika. The sociological aspects using actual archeological methods of investigation is above and beyond the bar, and Ive learned so much of our real world through your videos. Thank you so much. But the psychological aspect of an imprisoned, dying god, I feel are left out. Times change: Mental imprisonment, not so much. I believe FromSoftware wouldnt go as far with their archeological and sociological depth just to leave out the psychological response to their environment. I cant wait to finally find out. And I dont care if Im wrong: Ive had so much fun with these theories, I cant wait to see it all unfold. Thank you again, TA!

I just realized I have never been to Leyndell Golden Capital at night... Maybe the wax on the doors isn't just to keep dust out, but also the everlasting light from the Erdtree. 7:08 "Look up at the sky, it burns" could mean that the people speaking are genuinely bothered by the light.

Gotta say, you are my absolute favourite content creator on KZread ! Tx for the fabulous work ❤️❤️

Another great video!

Another excellent presentation. Thank you for your sharing your wealth of knowledge - about the game, but moreso in tying it to the real world. I very much enjoy your content

What makes me skeptical about this is Messmer's dialogue during the trailer. "Those striped of the grace of shall all meet death. Embraced in Messmer's flame." That the statement of a Marika loyalist, not a traitor to the Erdtee.

@kristofferkjeldsen6268

21 күн бұрын

That is not Messmers dialogue, it is from someone else completely.

@Darkheart00

21 күн бұрын

@@kristofferkjeldsen6268 still doesn’t contradict OP’s implications. The fact that an external party may believe Messmer to be Marika’s representative in the Land of Shadow is really important. Even if Messmer himself doesn’t like Marika, he’s clearly taking on the acts of Marika in the Land of Shadow. Almost like Lucifer enacting Gods Will by burning those who betray him in hell. Another detail to back up Messmer’s involvement: The Wickerman has decapitated Fire Giant on its hips. We know that the Firegiants were the sole enemies in the last stage of the Erdtree revolution, making (imo) the wickerman a part of her creations. In another screenshot we see some black/gold knights riding with the wickerman… and if you zoom in closely in the Martial Arts scene in the trailer, the same black/gold knight-armour is being worn by someone in a castle that’s in abundance with Messmer’s iconography (His iconic spears shooting straightup from the ground, and his *literal* sigil we also see in the Collector’s Edition in the same castle that’s being inhabited by knights adorning the same armour worn by those who are riding with the Wicker man - which I suppose is Marika’s creations). TL;DR - there’s A LOT of evidence that suggests that Messmer and Marika are actually, or atleast were at some point, objectively aligned. Some dialogue in the trailer also may prove as possible indication for this too (Messmer’s “mother” dialogue, and also the “stripped of the grace of gold” dialogue)

@Redactedlllllllllllll

4 күн бұрын

Seems pretty believable that merika herself was the betrayer of the original erdtree.

I too came to the conclusion, still a guess at this point, that Messmer probably helped burn the Erdtree the first time. His flames are too conspicuous, and bear a resemblance to the giant's flame. I wondered if he wasn't the reason the giants were impaled, upon which he was able to witness the majesty of the flame of their Fel God. I reckon Messmer as a rebellious first son of Marika, quarreling and plotting against the Erdtree and soon-forming Golden Order. Marika either couldn't, or wouldn't kill him for this, and thus banished him to the Land of Shadow as a kind of despotate for him to reside in. Out of sight, but still ultimately loyal directly to her.

That’s a nice music cue in the beginning… I haven’t even watched anything else except for this intro haha…

This theory makes 1000x more sense than "Miquella and Melina are the same person"

yo TA, eagerly awaiting your reaction to the new trailer today. mega hype!!

Overall, it makes sense. The duality of physical body and spirit was under our nose all along, since for pointing that out. The player and Miquella must leave their body to go to the shadow realm, so is everyone a spirit too ? If so, do we have any clue if Mesmer's body could be somewhere in the real world. What if Miquella's goal in the shadow real was to fuse his spirit with the Erdtree's body ?

How blessed our community is. TA ❤️

Coming back to this to video to express my excitement for if you do a video on the new story trailer

Cannot wait for more info :D

This channel is insane. 👏

22:17 makes sense because that one guy , I think shabriri or yuria, whatever that name is, talks about how what you’re about to do (use Melina as kindling) is a cardinal sin. So I guess he would only know that if it was done before

At 6:34 the Erdtree looks like a sad face or something, kinda like the great deku tree from Zelda *Ocarina Of Time*

I have to wonder if these "Shadowlands" or what-have-you aren't the actual world, and the Lands Between are the afterlife (or some sort of Limbo/Purgatory adjacent analogy). We see the famous/infamous Tarnished (Godfrey, Dungeater, etc.) in what appear to be their deaths during the opening, so maybe that's them having died in the real world and are now being sent to the Lands Between. The name even evokes some sort of quasi-real state; maybe "the Lands Between" refers to a point between life and death. Heck, maybe that's even what the Erdtree Burial really is, the reincarnation of people back to the real world, and then they come back to the Lands Between after their death again.

The use of the word Shadow in the title specifically is interesting to me, given the aenima/aenimus self thing going on with Marika/Radagon. If we take it a step further and substitute Godrey/Tarnished as the ego, then Messmer's motifs start to fit into the idea of the subconcious shadow

Was kinda hoping this video would be a lot less speculation but more on evidence. Like if this was a video about ashes, why not talk about how when Ranni gives you the spirit caller stuff she calls it “ashes unreturned to the erdtree” or how when anyone dies in the game, they turn into ashes/dust that disappears?

@Darkheart00

21 күн бұрын

Because the objective of this video is clearly not to be a concrete Lore Video. It’s a Shadow of the Erdtree speculation video using the basegame to prove Tarnished Archeologists theories. The core subject is the DLC, not the basegame

To add a little horticultural context to the gnarled tree shown in the trailer and in regards to the video on the misbegotten and grafting. The tree is 'dog legged' which happens for multiple reasons but generally denotes an undesirable plant. One can still graft these plants but they are cut off below the aberration.

Good stuff

New story trailer released today. Seems the depiction of the Shattering and the supposed burning of the tree was right. The new trailer seem to continue this narrative as (supposedly) Leyndell and the tree is aflame / burnt out

When I first saw the empty city, piles of ash, incense, doctor looking enemies and all the sealed doors I initially thought a plague had come through and wiped out the glorious city before we showed up. The bodies burnt and cleaned with incense, the buildings ceiled and quarantined. It made me sad, like something amazing had just rolled over and died before I got to see it.

The room in the round tablehold that houses Fia has what would be the complete elden rune. The main picture is beside her bed. There are adornments on the wall above the character reconfiguration cabinet. They appear to have worn-out differently than the rest of the banners. A piece appears torn or cut from them.

excellent video!!!! do you think you might ever direct any archaeological efforts toward demon's souls?

Im very happy when i see one of your video's coming out. Thank you for your work it is really great. Not only we learn about elden ring but you give us notion from history. I love it

I'm surprised you didn't mention this: It's so striking to me that that sliver of real tree above and around the entryway is the only part of the "Erdtree" that isn't burning when you look at it in those clips you showed over and over. Only the golden spectral parts of the tree are burning. Which only reinforces this idea that the golden part of the Erdtree is a separate thing from the physical part of that tree structure. It reinforces the grafting theory and the theory that the Erdtree was burned before.

@cammyshill3099

7 күн бұрын

Ah, sure. The "fake" tree. A "fake" tree that, however, is still capable of burning. The fake tree that burns of fake fire, dropping fake wood and fake ash upon the fake capital. That fake tree, of course.

That original trailer is really interesting in context now. Especially Radahn being on fire, considering he is one of the two required bosses we have to kill to get to the DLC. Considering we dont have a really solid connection as to why would HAVE to kill him before the DLC.

@Darkheart00

21 күн бұрын

I think the fire more represented his Great Rune: “The Great Rune burns, to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot.” As he burns away the Scarlet Rot. I think Radahn’s death is closer related to the Movement of the stars. We know how important stars are in the Carian royal family, so we’ll find out why they’re important to miquella. Whether it be his Fate, his eclipse ritual, the Amber starlight, Radahn is holding back Miquella’s goals.

@LuciferLuckless

21 күн бұрын

Various things around Castle Sol seem to indicate that Miquella requires an eclipse for some purpose. At Castle Sol they failed to create an eclipse, no matter what they tried, and this is probably at least related if not outright caused by Radahn halting the movement of the stars. The stars only resume their motion with Radahn's death, which may even be why Malenia, the blade of Miquella, tried to kill Radahn in the first place.

Brilliant speculations! One thing I might add is that the trailer for the DLC has sort of an echo of Melina's final words. She says ""The one who walks alongside flame, shall one day meet the road of Destined Death", while in the DLC trailer, we hear someone recite "Those stripped of the Grace of Gold shall all meet death in the embrace o Messmer's flame". I don't exactly know what this could mean, but with the relation you traced between Melina and Messmer I keep thinking that these words are connected somehow.

Did you know if you kill the finger maidens out in the world. 1) they make a very distinct music noise different from anything in the game. 2) they tell you that you will burn the Erd Tree even if you just start the game. The one in Caelid on the road says it. As do some others. I wonder if a secret happens if you kill all the finger maidens without fast traveling so they remain dead? Miyazaki said there was 1 secret fans have yet to discover

Thanks for the good content

If Messmer was banished from the Lands Between for setting the Erdtree aflame, then why would Queen Marika have asked Melina to be the kindling maiden? I think Melina was born with the capability to ignite the tree, Queen Marika realized this, and decided to hide her away in the secret room outside of the Forbidden Lands, a room that so happened to be guarded by a noble of sorts. This might also explain why she decides to go with you to the Mountaintops, while making it very clear that setting the Erdtree aflame this time is her own decision, not her mother’s, and she will not let anyone stand in her way. (Melina needing to verbally defend herself from being stopped may also hint at a previous time when someone had tried to stop her).

Dunno if someone else beat me to it, but Deathblight doesn’t have thorns. Those “spikes” are the wings of insects.

Upon seeing the new trailer I had a feeling that the flame butterflies might be representative of Messemer, seeing as the other two types had very clear origins and the fire ones' descriptions being very mum about their actual nature.

4:56 hah, glad i was able to point that out for you way back when!

I have to wonder if part of the DLC is more focused on events earlier in the timeline. Namely, however tf Radagon came to be. We have a shadow land "split off" from the lands between, two trees wrapping together into one, and a lot of talk about birth in the second DLC trailer now. We also see golden sap leaking from the shadow erdtree into a curved basin, presumably collecting it. If you compare the golden order elden ring with the earlier version of the elden ring found in Farum Azula, you can see that an arc has been added to the bottom of the design. This is actually where rune arcs come from, whose descriptions read: "The lower arc of the Elden Ring is held to be the basin in which its blessings pool." The most concrete theory I have is that Marika went and stole some type of great rune/form of grace (again shown in trailer 2 :/), used this to create Radagon from herself, and thus created the shadow lands by robbing them of their grace. She then continued to siphon sap from them and the shadow Erd tree, allowing for the "real" Erd Tree to "weep" sap and blessings upon the Lands Between. The golden threads she's holding even sort of look like a rune arc. Next, the people in the shadow lands start to get a little pissed off that their grace was stolen. She sends Messmer, her new child she had with herself, to put them into their places and he uhh... burns their Erd tree for good? Grows a second, evil Erd tree to suffocate it? Who knows. It does seem perhaps more likely that Messmer burned the Erd tree later after the ring was shattered. But there are also a few lines (from the first trailer I think) that make it sound like Messmer has been tasked with handling those who have fallen from grace in a way more permanent than the tarnished. I'm not really sure. I think the question of Radagon's creation/birth is interesting though, and in light of the second trailer it seems much more centered around Marika taking something to create something else, not breaking something. My highly doubt my theory is going to be the actual story but maybe some of the themes are there.

Not quite conclusive in certain aspects, but this is to be expected. In broad strokes, this is very much what I had deduced is almost certainly the case starting somewhere between a month and two months ago, myself, though that paradigm has evolved and shifted in little bits as a consequence of learning more and more. I very much appreciate you putting this into proper presentation, though. Very respectable work.

When you where reading the description of the Blessed Dew Talisman it made me think that the word "swiftly" is also (and in this two times only i think) to describe the disappearing of Miquela and St. Trina. It must be a connection there.

Amazing video and analysis man, Love ur videos from Iraq❤️

So what god makes up the finger slayer blade? Fire giant god? A head of palcidusax? Would love to hear what u think keep up the great work! 👌👌👍👍

The true scholar 🙏

With Miyazaki’s quote about an event causing a physical separation of reality between the Lands Between and the Shadow Realm, and the many spectral trees we see in the background in our final bossfight against the Elden Beast, these trees surely represent some sort of anchor in reality, right? Sort of like Yggdrasil, except there are several trees, and they only support one world. Would be awesome if there were more information about this particular trait of these trees.

I expect Messmer's banishment to be much earlier than the Shattering, but still I think the idea that Melina, the Serpent and maybe Messmer conspired to burn the Golden Tree to be solid, although in the ancient past. I wouldn't be surprised if it heralded Marika's decision to permanently seal away the Rune of Death, especially if Melina was the (self-styled) Gloam-eyed Queen and the original warden of the RoD gone rogue. This might be the point when the first Minor Erdtree were born, since archelogical evidence points to two different sheddings of seeds. Also, I doubt Leyndell was made unlivable due to ash for thousands of years and during the whole reign of Radagon. I think the more recent burning of the Erdtree was due to: - either Marika trying to get access to the Erdtree and being denied by the Greater Will - or an ill-fated attempt by Bernhal, who had to sacrifice her maiden for nothing, since he didn't have the RoD, leading to his loss of faith

Hello, notice two interesting things that may catch your attention: 1. Morgot's powers are many of them dirty water, which indicates that he misses or remembers the place in which he was imprisoned. Y 2: There is a torch that was created for the soldiers in order to "not repeat the incident of the black blades", that indicates in a way that there was enough time between events for Element was created and implemented. which is proof that the devastation was an event much later than Godgwin's death

Another excellent video from TA. I have never understood some of the hate TA receives from arm chair lore speculators. Right or wrong TA produces some amazing food for thought, thanks for your hard work, I love your videos.

One thing that you didn't mention that. I think further supports your theory on the prior burning of the tree being by Messmer, is the Vulgar Militia Armor Description It describes the Forbidden Lands as singed battlefields exercised from History and are the only location in game actually referred to as Forbidden and has a Dark Smoldering aura in the air

Just today started watching TA and in the middle of the grace video thought “Damn, no wonder everyone loves this channel so much” and then boom an upload. Sweet!

"No one lives forever. That's just the way it is." -Oingo Boingo, apparently.