I'm surprised they didn't make more of her normals more combo friendly, like Gief

@Sarkhamy

Ай бұрын

Capcom is kinda afraid of buffing this character it seems

I still wish she had a way to do specials (namely DP) and keep her stock, maybe holding the button like Cammy. Like you're punished for anti airing with DP when you might've needed that enhanced special for something else later

@DanTheMeek

Ай бұрын

This. A thousand times this. My preference would just be to make her dp only use stock when combo'd into and or when using the EX version. 99.9% of the time the extra 10 damage or whatever the stock gives my anti-air dp is not worth giving up a wind enhanced spire later in the fight, or a stock enhanced mid-combo dp where its needed to land said combo. As such, it really does feel like I'm punished for anti-air DPing with her whenever I have stock. Seems like maybe the intended work around is just to use cr.hp as your anti-air, but given her DP already doesn't have invincibility, it would be nice if it was actually a useful anti-air DP tool, which again, it absolutely would be if it wasn't eating up my wind stocks for basically nothing in return.

@beserkmaster

Ай бұрын

I'm honestly surprised we didn't see something like that, especially now that Juri and Kim have that option for their level 1s now.

@kevingriffith6011

Ай бұрын

What's wild to me is that there's so much focus on wind stocks on Lily, but the only move with a worthwhile benefit to having wind stocks is her Condor Spire. There is some weirdness with the other windclad moves (Like Lily's longest reaching 4 frame button is actually windclad light DP) but for the most part you just... don't have a reason to care about wind stocks for any move but condor spire... If they're not going to let me hold on to my wind stocks, at least make the reward for having wind stocks apply evenly to the rest of her specials. Make EX windclad condor dive launch the opponent into a juggle state, for example... or extend the forward range on EX windclad DP so lily can punish things at a surprising idstance. I dunno, something.

These changes are honestly better than I expected

I'm actually surprised she doesn't have a seismo ala t.hawk omega, I dunno if giving her one would be completely fair though lol

They should Bring back sf4 omega condor dive

@GoldGuard

Ай бұрын

What was it like in Omega

I'm a little disappointed she didn't get some new sauce, considering her super simple game plan. But I guess Condor Spire is still probably the best move in the game, so they probably don't want to overtune her. Still, wake up DR, faster SA1 and top tier nerfs are huge wins for her.

Thank you for making all these videos 🙌🏼

Fantastic buffs for the combo breaker tournament winner Lily.

Arguably the character that needed buffs the most. That said, she did win CB so that should prove that consistency will make any Lily a threat

@user-kp5tf9qt5l

Ай бұрын

Especially the wake up drive reversal helps her a lot.

@vulcan422

Ай бұрын

​@@user-kp5tf9qt5l Wakeup Drive Reversal is gonna be a game changer for a lot of characters. Finally characters without metered DPs they have some sort of metered defensive option.

@CrystalMang0

Ай бұрын

Not "the most" as other characters were weaker than her in season 1 like Jamie or zangief for example.

@Megaman.ExE7

Ай бұрын

@@CrystalMang0 I haven't even played since the update and I already know Zangief is going to be an immediate threat now. You can't keep away as effectively anymore. Which is going to buff is SDP game immensely

It’s interesting that they improved target combos across the board yet the most useless one in the game (Lily’s) was untouched

10f sa1 does still lose to meaty jabs but it has to be a perfect meaty. as a reversal it just punishes sloppy meaties. afaik all characters with a 4f normal that isnt a 2lk (or ed 2lp pretending to be a 2lk) can meaty it safely and the example you used (ryu 2lp) just happens to have an extra recovery frame compared to his 5lp.

One other thing I've noted from the patch is that trade combos off of medium condor wind are more reliable now. Back Heavy Punch -> Medium Wind trades with mash 4-frame on block, for example, and now you can pretty consistently get back heavy punch off of the trade, and it pretty easy to set up off of light no-wind condor spire -> Dash. It still loses to Drive Impact unless you have level 3 and the reaction speed to cancel though, so... baby steps I guess.

it's a shame they didn't do much to expand her combo game, but I guess the new super 1 routes are pretty cool.

I like how you cover the modern autocombos. I know a lot of ppl find street fighter more accessible using them

Her changes are good but frustrating to me. I was hoping they would expand her combo ability a little more than that or make it so you can choose when you spend your windstock by holding the button down when you do a special. Great video, thank you.

I'll need to play around with her post-change to get a true feeling for it. But she's at least not legit bottom 2 or something now. At least I think. I think at this point she still needs change but not even for balance really; just to legitimately make her a bit less one note? Something still feels a bit off compared to how generally fun T. Hawk was to play in SFIV despite being a similarly simple character.

...now she just needs T.hawk piano option selects...

Just one correction, Guile's sweep didn't get the change of the second hit becoming a high. That's Jamie's.

@Bafael

Ай бұрын

Oops lol

Sf6 akuma guide. When?

No wonder Chakotay was cooking on this character at CB, good changes all around honestly :)

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

TBF he didn't utilize the new Lily tools a lot, only sporadic drive reversals. What helped him immensely were the nerfs to top tiers. Back in S1, the Luke army would have put Tay's Lily near death on a single confirm. But with the nerfs, they burned themselves out going full aggro in Combo Breaker.

@Native2087

Ай бұрын

Yeah he used her crouching heavy a lot which is very reminiscent of SF5 Rashid 💀 lol

She needs more buffs

@dragonic22

Ай бұрын

Cant need that much more. Winning combo breaker is a big deal, isn't it?

@arsonne

Ай бұрын

Maybe you need more buffs to win with her but good players don’t.

@elSteeler

Ай бұрын

@@dragonic22 I will say that Hibiki and Chakotay can beat anybody because they are that good with Lily, but combo breaker was a perfect situation for Lily to win. Watching the matches, it looked like everyone besides Chakotay was still playing on season 1, if that makes sense. Poor drive management from Noah, very few wakeup drive reversals from Chakotay's opponents (partly bc of drive management), and his entire top 8 run being made up of nerfed Lukes. Chakotay has always been an amazing player but this was also the perfect storm for him to make a run. Let's see how Lily performs once everyone is comfortable with the patch.

@toosquare

Ай бұрын

@@dragonic22 Winning combo breaker would be a bigger deal if more than like 3 good players attended lol, basically every notable player skipped it for EWC qualifiers this weekend.

@CrystalMang0

Ай бұрын

These buffs are good.

lily was a character with lower overall power but who basically functioned as she should in all of her matchups and who overall benefits a lot from system changes and from top tiers being nerfed. i feel she got appurropriate changes. i'll purrobably keep playing her as a secondary, though it's hard to go back once you've played with the akuma walkspeed. honestly, walkspeed might be the best pawssible buff they could give her, if they feel she needs more.

@kevingriffith6011

Ай бұрын

If I could ask for any buff for Lily it'd be to make Condor Dive faster... maybe increase the recovery on whiff to compensate so it's not better as a corner escape tool. I've had too many times where I'd neutral jump in anticipation of a fireball, get the right read and still have condor dive blocked because they recover in time. I just don't know what Capcom wants us to do with that move if not whiff-punish fireballs.

Lily feels like an unfinished character to me

@dragonic22

Ай бұрын

Curious. Define 'unfinished character'

@kevingriffith6011

Ай бұрын

@@dragonic22 It's probably that she gets no combos outside of button + special without spending drive gauge. Bafael wasn't kidding when he said her buttons are extremely combo-unfriendly, the only non-light she has that's more than +1 is her 14 frame back heavy punch, and she has no combo-extending special moves. Even Gief has headbutt into hellstab. Also I think Capcom was afraid of another SF4 Yun situation so they made Condor Dive a high risk, low reward option that is extremely hard to use effectively outside of just a corner escape tool.

@PaddyRoon7

Ай бұрын

@@kevingriffith6011 Yup, well put. Her game plan is also extraordinarily simple to the point that I feel like the devs didn't know what to do to make her unique.

@CrystalMang0

Ай бұрын

​@@PaddyRoon7Shes a grappler.

@CrystalMang0

Ай бұрын

We love lily.

Genuinely such a boring changelist. Her gameplan is already so linear and boring and instead of changing her in more interesting ways to give her more fun play patterns they just gave her more ways to start her horribly uninteresting 50/50... Yippee I guess...

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