*Addendums:* 1) More documentary style videos: *What Was So Great About Arcades in the 80's & 90's?* Mini video documentary discussing the above kzread.info/dash/bejne/pYtm17ivnJXafsY.html *Which version of Outrun 2 is the best?:* kzread.info/dash/bejne/iat_lKqle7uueqw.html *Outrun (by Sega) 30th Birthday Tribute - The game, the legacy!* -kzread.info/dash/bejne/rH5klphrhpzJkdI.html *30 Years of After Burner by Sega - the game, the legacy* - kzread.info/dash/bejne/jHt5spOeerGegZM.html *Sega Rally 3 Vs Sega Rally Online Arcade (Sega Europa R Vs PS3)* - kzread.info/dash/bejne/l2ylpNWHc5fQec4.html 2)KZread has been really messing with the video quality of all my recent uploads (despite the fact I'm using their recommended bitrate for my videos), giving some stuff a really blocky and pixelated look, even at 1080p, that isn't in the original video. It's done a real number here on _all_ of the Scud Race and Daytona USA 2 footage and really downgraded it. Really annoying it's done this in a video where I'm _specifically_ trying to emphasize how good the games look. Seems quite a few other KZreadrs are having the same issue. You can see how it's downgraded it from the original video here: sta.sh/01frfuxnp9ox 3) facebook.com/ScudRace/ Facebook page I set up about 8 years ago to try and petition Sega to bring Scud Race out on the _last_ generation of consoles. Really more of a place to chat about arcade racers and post any interesting videos or news about them now. 4) At the 21:00 minute mark I'm taking about how it's possible to keep a game of Daytona USA 2001 in sync with the original arcade version of Daytona USA, but I've noticed I accidentally say Daytona USA 2 when referring to the original. Plonker. You can check out the entire 'Sync Race' here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/aHWpzdqOnLeXico.html

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

I've uploaded a before and after picture to show just how much KZread has fucked with the video quality of this from what the original video looked like to the final KZread render. It's shocking just how much it's degraded the quality: sta.sh/01frfuxnp9ox

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, I talk about Sega Rally Online Arcade (not Revo though, yuk) in one of the videos I've linked to above.

@FloridaManRacer

6 жыл бұрын

your video just made me go on a very long hunt. I now have the am2 and am3 emulators on my pc and ive figured out through black magic even i dont quite understand how to get my thrusmaster t-150 sim racing wheel to work with daytona usa 1 & 2 scud and sega rally. now i just need a fully enclosed arcade racing cabinet and a crt tv lol

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Glad it inspired you to re-visit some of these classics. Now, just remember to go easy on those tires!

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Guybrush79 ...what?

Sega needs to get their shit together before they become another third-party compa--oh wait...

The Dreamcast died too young. Too many games that never came out.

@dziltener

6 жыл бұрын

It's a shame, really. The one time they did _everything_ right. Ok, you could say they should've included a DVD drive, but come on. They did everything right, but didn't have the money anymore to back it. The ridiculously amazing games that came out on the Dreamcast just make you wonder what could have been.

According to Tcrf on Daytona USA 2, there's a hidden Dreamcast logo located inside a small hill at the final turn of the Advanced course. Could this mean that Daytona 2's DC port was planned but was cancelled during PE's development which led to the logo being hidden?

@emanuelepolloni4002

11 ай бұрын

Maybe it was just intended to be an in-game ad for the console that was shelved at one point and forgot to remove it

Great video, man! The Model 2/3/NAOMI era of Sega arcade games has to be my favorite era. I'm thankful to at least be able to see most of these 3D classics in their full glory on the Supermodel emulator. Although you didn't seem to cover this game in the video, my favorite Model 3 game would have to be Harley-Davidson & L.A. Riders. A Dreamcast port of that would have been sweet, but honestly I think the game was just relatively unpopular and too short (not to mention licensing). Instead, some cruddy US game developers got ahold of the Harley license to make less-than-stellar PC budget titles. It's a fucking shame... :-(

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Paul. Harley Davidson & L.A. Riders was a title that pretty much passed me by back in the old days, I can't really ever remember seeing one in an arcade (mind you, this is also true of a lot of other Model 3 games, like Lost World and Ocean Hunter).

Coming across a Virtua Fighter 3 arcade machine in the summer of 1998 was the most mind-blowing video game experience I've ever had, in terms of graphics. It was a night and day difference between that and the best that the PlayStation 1, Saturn and Nintendo 64 could offer. I've never experienced a graphical leap as big as that since.

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

Considering that VF3 came out in Summer '96 in the arcades - two more years earlier! - that's even more impressive. I have to say Soul Calibur is not completely better looking than VF3. VF3 has the more beautiful stages IMO, they are "touchable", closer to the action and interactive! In Soul Calibur, you basically only fight on a flat plane with ring out, and some 3D objects + 2D backgrounds are far in the distance.

Great video. Dreamcast is my favourite console but also the biggest headache aswell with so many missing games that should have been. Emergency Ambulance, Brave Firefighters, Jambo Safari, Dirt Devils, Planet Harriers plus all the ones you mention

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Cheers!

Sega continues to sit on a plethora of unreleased-to-home-console arcade games from the late 90's to early 2000's while continuously rehashing their Genesis/ MegaDrive Collection releases ad nauseam. Pure stupidity on Sega's part and frustrating for Sega arcade fans.

@danialvereb

3 жыл бұрын

I know your comment is 2 years old, but remember the arcade game Ocean Hunters? Would have loved a DC version.

@dreamcastluvr

3 жыл бұрын

@@danialvereb Agreed. DC definitely needed more light gun games.

Well, the Dreamcast had more modern 3D effects and APIs but between the ARM based CPU and the PowerVR it was definitely bandwidth and fill rate starved. Conversions usually had lower polygon counts and frame rates were halved. The very fact that there's not a arcade perfect port of Sega GT aka Scud Racer is a crime to all gamers.

@Vectorman2X

8 ай бұрын

remember that model 3 cost 10 times more than dremcast, let alone the fact that scud race was based on 1.5 step of model 3

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

Memory also was a big limitation for DC's polygon power.

I have been a Sega fan from the early Arcade days, to the Master System, more Arcade, Mega Drive, basically all the time they developed hardware... I got a buzz when I see the Sega logo on a machine.. The biggest issue with Sega in the later days is shitty Management in Japan and the US, Europe maybe.. They just lost there identity and what made Sega a brand in the first place.. It is a big loss in gaming, yes they still create software or licence it, but will never be the same, shame :(

Great video, keep up the good work! It's always great hearing about the Sega Model 3 arcade board, the graphics it produced was mind blowing when it was introduced in 1996, it's amazing even today. When I got the Supermodel emulator and plugged in my steering wheel, I knew life was good.

Those arcade racers from the 90s look better than these driving sims we get now. Racing games are designed to make you feel like you're moving fast and Sega did just that. Developers need to realize that realism should not always be the focus.

Well done on the video and Admiral Ackbar at the end lol -Thumbs up

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Great video as always! I can't speak authoritatively about this because I was in high school when the Dreamcast came out but it's no stretch to say that Sega was in dire straights at the time given their 32-bit debacles. Presumably, in-house development resources were stretched thin to make sure that the Dreamcast -- which was a "make it or break it" move for Sega -- was a success. Console games in the 90's matured a lot during the 32-bit era. They lagged arcades in graphics only. Sega made the right decision avoiding ports of relatively shallow arcade experiences (Star Wars Trilogy in particular was ill-suited for home conversion because it was short, linear, and lacked replay value). That said, the better titles did receive ports (e.g., Crazy Taxi, and Virtual On, which was big in Japan). I always thought that the Dreamcast had a fantastic lineup within its first 12 months with plenty of truly innovative titles (e.g., Jet Grind Radio, Seaman). I've heard it said that Yu Suzuki's Shenmue was enormously expensive to develop and I wonder if this only added to Sega's problems. My belief is that Model 3 had poor price-performance, which limited its distribution and consumer awareness, and console gaming had become far more sophisticated than in the arcades (never mind PC gaming, which had long been a hotbed of innovation). Sega wisely chose to move forward. Now why did the Dreamcast fail? That's a more complex discussion. From my perspective as a high schooler in 2000, the Sony hype machine was no small factor (recall all the hype about the 'Emotion Engine' and having so much spare capacity as to render individual hairs). I'm sure their 32-bit failures continued to haunt them both financially and reputation-wise among third party developers. Perhaps time simply ran out and there was nothing they could do in the face of a perfect storm, despite having what was actually a very capable system with exciting games.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the compliment Bart. All good points you raise there. I still personally would have liked a Star Wars Trilogy Arcade conversion myself, although I agree that it potentially could've lacked replay value, but it would've been great a game to make your friends go 'Wow!' when you showed it to them, assuming Sega didn't cock the graphics up in the port of course. Sega had released home versions of a few rail shooters in the past and the Dreamcast did get a few of these games itself, like HOTD 2 and Confidential Mission, and they normally had ways of bulking the content out a bit from the arcade with stuff like survival modes, shooting gallerys and boss rushes and the like, so I'm sure they could have done something similar for SWT (maybe added light gun support as well, although that probably wouldn't have been much use for you guys in North America as I believe the official Dreamcast Lightgun was never released there?)

@trzy

6 жыл бұрын

I never actually owned a Dreamcast so I'm not sure about the lightgun :) I largely stopped gaming in high school, as a matter of fact, apart from emulation. A friend of mine had the system and I remember being wowed by it whenever I went over to his place. For some reason, we played a lot of 'Dead or Alive 2' ;) Another thing that came to mind was the Dreamcast's limited storage capacity. Even had the Dreamcast lasted a bit longer, it would quickly have run into a wall with those gigabyte discs. The N64 had the same problem and although that didn't kill it, it was certainly the reason that the system never had a chance at overtaking the PlayStation. I imagine developers ca. 2000 were even less forgiving given where games were headed. It's quite sad what happened to Sega.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! DOA2 was one of the games that got bundled in with my Dreamcast. I knew nothing about it, but suffice to say I was suitably blown away by how amazing it looked the first time I played it.

Awesome video, subscribed! :D

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

sega just release the model 3 arcade pack on psn,xbox live and steam!!!! c,monnnnnnnnnnn

@tiagofernandes8389

6 жыл бұрын

kris lambert ???

@WilfredBrimleyGaming

6 жыл бұрын

kris lambert sega wont let us have nice things

@superbroly64DS

2 жыл бұрын

A few weeks ago I had a dream that Sega was releasing a model 2 collection on PS4 and such

ah, love this in depth documentary on arcade racing games - whish there will be one on ridge racer :-D

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Well, I can't promise a Ridge Racer documentary, but I did do some HD video capture of of a few games of Ridge Racer 7 recently, when I had my capture equipment out for another project. Keep an eye out for them (one of them's going to have a 'special' introduction).

Nice video. I wish you talked more about how hard it is to find Scud race machines in arcades now. A lot of 1990s arcade machines have been retired from most arcades, or even scrapped entirely. These are 30 year old machines. You literally have to hunt in person, ask online, and even look at photos to find specific arcade machines these days. They are getting pretty rare. The arcade machines were not designed to last this long.

@MrThunderwing

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I don't think I've seen a Scud Race or Daytona USA 2 cabinet in about 20+ years now.

Wow! Really great and informative video on SEGA's arcade greats. I'm still waiting for a home version of Top Skater....

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Great video, thanks for taking the time to put it together

@MrThunderwing

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it.

makes me laugh that the really only good model 3 conversion was fighting vipers 2 a game nobody wanted and was one of the last Dreamcast titles released, great idea sega.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, typical Sega. Bit like when they produced the graphically far superior to the original Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition on the Saturn towards the latter half of the system's life span.

@AmbientMess

4 жыл бұрын

Virtual On was pretty decent too

Scud race or sega super gt here in the US is by far my favorite arcade racer.i got it to run really good on the supermodel emulator, it really scratches that itch! Great video

I remember playing Daytona USA 2 in the Arcades and thinking how awesome the game is and feeling lucky that I have a Dreamcast because it would at some point be recieving a port. Was very sad that the Dreamcast not only didn't receive many Model 3 ports but also of the games it did get like Virtua Fighter 3 and Sega Rally 2 none of them were quite as good as they could have been

@PassionWagonYT

8 ай бұрын

It got one in the form of Fighting Vipers 2, but I think that was the only one.

thank god for emulation

@curtiswilson4737

3 жыл бұрын

Ikr

great vid btw well done loved seeing scud race and daytona 2 ,laughed out loud at dead or alive s graphics !!

I still Love Sega. I really miss my Dreamcast. I loved Shenmue and 2K football both really underrated. Yakuza is still my favorite game series. I grew up in the 80's and 90's. I also miss playing Golden Axe, Altered Beast and Star Wars Trilogy in the arcade. Long live Sega.

@MrThunderwing

4 жыл бұрын

Check this out then, you might enjoy! kzread.info/dash/bejne/eZ6Gu8WAZdWuYs4.html

Watched the whole thing while working on my driving cab! Honestly I would have been happy if the Dreamcast was only arcade ports. That's still the thing I like the most about it. Power Stone, The Last Blade 2 and Metal slug being a couple examples... Def would have like to see more Model 3 love though. Great video as always!

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

DokiDokiWoki Thanks bud!

According to Toshihiro Nagoshi, he stated why SpikeOut was never ported to the Dreamcast because due to insufficient hardware for a perfect home conversion(SpikeOut is on the XBOX). I also heard on SEGA Retro said there we're rumors of Daytona USA 2 for the Dreamcast as a launch title.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

It's funny when the developers start using reasons like 'insufficient hardware for a perfect port' as a reason for not even bothering to try, when in previous generations Sega used to work around those limitations to try and give you the _best_ possible port not a _perfect_ one. Golden Axe on the Megadrive wasn't arcade perfect, but it was so close it made you feel like you were _almost_ playing the arcade version. For me, any additional Model 3 ports to the Dreamcast wouldn't have needed to be arcade perfect, just that they were the best ports available within the limitations of the DC hardware.

@EnzoTestarossa740

6 жыл бұрын

I think that comment he said is more of an excuse.

Great video, now after reaching the end I feel the need to play......thunder force iv! Can't imagine why :-)

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Ha ha, well identified!

For Star Wars at the time Lucas Arts licensed on a game by game basis. The license for the overarching franchise wasn't available to any publisher at the time.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Siendra Ah, good to know!

I remember playing the heck out of Star Wars Episode 1 Racer on N64 as I didn't have a Dreamcast.

Wow! Great video. I don't watch long videos on KZread how ever this video made me sit down in front of my TV and Cast your video. You may think I'm weird to say this but this is THE best Sega history video I've ever tv seen. You did a fantastic, fantastic, fantastic good on this video. Great jod. 👍

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

High praise indeed :) Thank you very much!

@SegaKid_V

6 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome brother, but thank you for all you research and for hitting the nail on the head on explaining what happened with Sega Super GT (Scud Race) and all those Model 3 games. Now I can show this to all my friends that were Sega fans (arcade and console games) and get some "closure", lol.👍😃🎮

@SegaKid_V

6 жыл бұрын

Oh and another thing, I own OutRun2 and I never paid too much attention to it but now that you pointed out that it had special stages taken from those Model 3 games, I'm a go and unlock them, thanks again boss.👌

I just got Outrun 2006 and Sega Rally working on a PSP emu on a huge screen in glorious 1080p and it still looks amazing!

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

I'd recommend tracking down a copy of the PC version of Outrun 2006 (or the original Xbox version if you own a 360 or OG Xbox), if I recall correctly the PSP version was limited to 30fps unlike all the others that ran at 60fps (and I'm all about the 60fps me). kzread.info/dash/bejne/ip6l1dijqryvaMo.html Likewise, I'd recommend checking out Teknoparrot arcade loader and Sega Rally 3 for the same reason: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oZWhq4-OndzXmpM.html

Wow. I remember trying to get scud race to work on mame. Never heard the sound till supemodel and it blew me away and i really wish outrun 2006 on pc had those daytona /scud race tracks 😐

I wasn't gaming from Sept 1996 to around August 2000 so these Model-3 games weren't an issue for me. I was sick of the cost of import games and never actually getting the arcade-perfect ports I wanted. My own 'Holy Grail' was a perfect port of SF2CE. The game did come in 1998 which was years too late - I'd given-up waiting. I think the Dreamcast is/was phenomenal and revolutionary. I wonder how many more amazing games Sega and Capcom could have squeezed-out in a few more years. A port of Initial D Arcade Stage running on VGA would have been nice. It was a real pain going from Dreamcast VGA to PS2 RGB (blurry!!).

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

An arcade perfect Street Fighter 2 game was one of my holy grails as well, and I finally got one with Street Fighter Alpha 2 on the Saturn. Man I loved that game so much. Played so well with the Saturn 6 button pad too. It wasn't arcade perfect, but I've also got a great deal of time for the Megadrive version of Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition. It may not have quite matched the arcade version in terms of visuals or sound, but it played pretty much identically.

@simon41978

6 жыл бұрын

I ended-up buying most of the arcade boards in the early 2000's. They were affordable then. I got a Japanese sfzero 2 B-Board for about £65. I also bought myself a very nice candy cab (new, 29'' screen). It's a copy of a Neo Candy 29. Once you've seen jamma games or mame on a good arcade monitor, there's no going back. Sony PVM's are supposed to be excellent too. Since then, I've moved towards racing games but I still enjoy great fighting games like Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown. I see that Initial D Arcade Stage 7 is available to download online. Hopefully, it'll be running soon on Teknoparrot.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Nice! I funnily enough just tonight randomly saw a video update from the Teknoparrot developers showing Initial D Arcade Stage 7 running in the latest not yet publicly released build, so you probably won't have to wait too long.

I think one of the main reasons for not having ALL the arcade ports of Model3 is because the architecture was vastly different compared to the next to no-effort 1:1 Naomi-to-Dreamcast conversions. Even though the architecture differed a lot, we did get a lot of Model 3 conversions, Like Virtua Fighter 3tb, Sega Bass Fishing, Fighting Vipers 2, Virtua Strikers 2, Virtual On (I won't count SEGA Rally 2 as it was the PC Remake converted to Dreamcast through Windows CE). It WAS in-fact possible to make near arcade-perfect conversions of the Model3, But since it used technology from Lockheed Martin (Primarily used for state of the art, military simulators) It was definitely more of an undertaking for SEGAs studios.... Their finite resources needed to be allocated effectively during the Dreamcast era and choosing the more time-consuming arcade conversions, compared to easy 1:1 porting efforts of Naomi games + allocating all the rest of the resources on developing new creative Dreamcast-defining titles was still the best call. I still think Sega did the right decisions as it would generate games like Jet Set Radio, Phantasy Star Online, Shenmue I & II, Rez, Sonic Adventures... And I honestly believe that SEGA would eventually get around to make Daytona 2 and Scud Race if the console survived for longer.

@MrThunderwing

7 ай бұрын

Excellent points and well put. It just seems so weird though that Scud Race never appeared when one track and 2 of the car models had already been created and The fact that Daytona USA 2 was the sequel to one of Sega's biggest hits ever. It also just seemed odd that 2 such high profile Model 3 arcade games were being ignored when Sega were porting lesser titles to the Saturn back in the day, like Manx TT, Sega Touring Car and Sky Target, but then again, maybe that old policy of quantity over quality might've affected their future decision making.

It's amazing how much better both the Scud Race- and the Daytona USA 2-tracks look on the Model 3 arcade machines than in Outrun 2 on the Xbox. So much more vibrant and crisp!

@MrThunderwing

4 ай бұрын

Ehhhh, I'm prepared to give the Xbox version of Outrun 2 a bit of leeway here - it's got _so_ much extra content in it compared to either Daytona or Scud - tons of extra cars, AI cars, stages, modes, music (and the OG OutRun).

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

Just talking about the optical impression here... it is just amazing how well the Model 3 hardware (first revision was from 1996 O_O) compares to the Xbox from 6 years later. O_O @@MrThunderwing

@MrThunderwing

4 ай бұрын

@@MH-yp6wg I didn't explain myself very well there - what I meant was the graphics were undoubtedly compromised a bit in the bonus stages on account of all the extra content already in the game and the fact they're running in the OutRun engine. I imagine the Xbox could do a straight up one-to-one port of Scud Race without too much trouble.

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

Hm, hard to say... Model 3 still has some advantages over the Xbox in memory, T&L and bandwidth... While Xbox is better in many other areas. Hard to tell... but it is also a question of artisty. That Sega- (and Namco-) 90s-arcade-look with those bright and vibrant colors ist just so hard to beat that maybe even Sega themselvs could not match it anymore. xD@@MrThunderwing

Yay a long Thunderwing talky video, today will be a good day

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

TeamVectrexSam Thanks, hope you enjoy it.

@TeamVectrexSam

6 жыл бұрын

Great video, never realised how bad SR2 on DC really was, shame really as I've been struggling to get the pc version to work on windows 10, oh well, funny thing was that I had a good day aside from this lol

31:30 How did you get the audio from the original Daytona USA in the Dreamcast version? Is it a secret in the actual game, or did you just add it in post?

@MrThunderwing

3 жыл бұрын

It was a modded version of the game I downloaded years and years ago. I've got it as an image file (I can't remember what the Dreamcast ones are called) I can play on an emulator and an actual physical copy burnt to CR-R I can play on my Dreamcast.

Great video. Thank you! ! ! !

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

I miss Sega :(

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Me too pal! They just aren't the same company anymore.

@foregames183

6 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't it be great if they came up with a Sega mini arcade with perfect arcade ports just like SNK is doing right now.

I saw the topic..clicked the video..saw the run time.. hit subscribe.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Nice one bruvver!!!

Sega should've made the Dreamcast able to play DVDs. Also they never should've made that deal with Microsoft. Hackers were able to easily break the Dreamcast system because of Microsoft. That's what killed the Dreamcast

The one track you showed of 'Scud Race' (around 10:30) looks a lot like a track in 'San Francisco Rush 2049'.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

It's funny, re-watching this myself the other day ( I'm a narcissist, I like to hear myself talk) I was struck by the similarity in how certain bits of the two games look and made me think that perhaps I should've done a bit of head-to-head comparisons between the two.

I always wondered why scud race never came out and why the showed sega Saturn logo while racing on the first stage. Also wondered why virtua fighter 3 was originally intended for Saturn with an expansion pack

Thank goodness for Emulation and game preservation!!! Finally enjoying Daytona USA 2 via Super Model emulator.

@MrThunderwing

Жыл бұрын

Indeed, it's great these classics finally became playable at home this way.

It would have been awesome if Star Wars Arcade would have been included in a full fledged Star Wars game on Dreamcast, maybe as a bonus or as an arcade compilation.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Indeedly, would've been awesome if Sega did a compilation of this, the Model 1 game and Star Wars Racer Arcade. Add in some light gun support as well as a nice little bonus alternative to the joystick controls and we'd have been on to a winner.

Epic ass video man. You have a gift for this.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you Sir!

Wonderful documentary, good job.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Diogo Oliveira Thanks!

Great video, after Daytona was ported to Dreamcast, there's no reason why a decent port of Scud Race wasn't created. As for the Porsche license, I'm sure Sega could've approached Ruf for their license. Ruf appeared in a few games where the Porsche license wasn't available (Gran Turismo for example). I think it was EA who had the license as they released NFS Porsche Unleashed around this time.

Very interesting video. How do you feel about the Dremacast port of F355 though?

@MrThunderwing

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks, glad you liked it. I think Ferrari F355 is an excellent conversion and a great looking game, but it's just one that I'm not a huge fan of as I'm just not that into sim racers. Arcade racers all the way for me.

Haha.. and I have my consoles stored in the same manner as you! I relate to you so much lol!

Oooo nice video. Subbed. :P Also, what song plays @ 4:29?

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Cheers! The song is from Sega Touring Car Championship and is called 'So High'. Cheesy but I love it.

alex what's your opinion on daytona 3? did you like it?

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

I haven't see any in real life yet, only what I've seen on KZread. I haven't been super impressed with what I've seen TBH, I was hoping for a brand new game, not (another) remake of the original game. Also not impressed by the lack of a 4 way H shifter and the fact ir It re-uses the music from the Dreamcast as well, just lazy in my opinion.

The reason why we never saw games like D2 on DC is actually very simple: Due to the financial situation at the time Sega doesn't like to invest so much time on arcade ports (see below). Therefore the cheap Naomi-1 line of products including the DC, which makes quick and cost effective ports possible. These were never 1:1 ports, but ports that looked basically the same, and they were cheap and fast to make. But Model-3 was another story. Beside the (crappy) SR2 conversion, which was great success and indispensable for the japanese launch of the console (and the *only* reason, why they touched it at all), we never saw any other Model-3 racer, and the main reasons (technical on DC, maybe political on later consoles) why it would have taken way too much time for them are: 1. at least on the cars they used non planar quads (I'am not even aware of this till Ian Curtis mentioned it below; but this may be the reason why the EnvMapping in SR2 looked so real compared to the crappy DC's). So if that's true, then possibly they had to built the whole car model from the ground up. All cars on all games. 2. The textures had to be redesigned. Model-3 textures cannot be pulled straight ahead to the DC's texture compression due to the colour levelling nature of VQTC (see SR2). It's no problem if the developer take care about that on a new game, but multicoloured textures (like scud) had to be either redesigned, or splitted in "mono-toned" ones and then multi-textured, or left uncompressed. Otherwise you got more and more washed-out, colourless textures on higher compression ratios. Even the XBox was not able to output it right apparently (Scud and Daytona tracks in OR2), maybe because of S3TC. So if you wanted the same "color brilliance" like Model-3 you better left them untouched. 3. The engine itself (most important issue) would have been a hell of a task. Model-3 used not only Hardware T+L, it also had some kind of simplified "Vertex Shader" for Motion Objects (e.g. Rotary's). All static and almost all dynamic transformation was offloaded to the GPU. Furthermore the Pro1000 has guaranteed that the framerate in MidRes never falls below 60fps no matter what. On the DC the SH-4 had to do all the work on its own (even the XBox doesn't show any animations on the tracks). The development and optimization of such an engine may took more time than the market life span of the DC itself (at least in the eu area). 4. Even if one had the Mesh Data, the textures and the Engine, the DC version would never has been the same as Model-3 in terms of image quality, because the DC had no chance to use its FSAA und FSTF/FSAF or other fillrate intensive effects on *demanding* titles (due to the rip down GPU compared to Naomi). Side Note: There was something going on in 1998 (before the DC's launch), cause allegedly several Coders/Designer have left Sega and were looking for jobs elsewhere in the industry. Maybe that's one of the reasons why we hardly saw the ingenious design of a Scud or Daytona anymore since then (except Outrun2, Sega RaceTV and King of the Road, which were the only titles that breathe a little bit of the glory 90ties, where Sega still was "Worldwide Racing Leader"). Thinking of all the (time consuming) facts, it's no wonder that Sega never take any further Model-3 ports even into consideration. My conclusion: Hire some clever hackers und give them a good amount of time. At some point you get a performance out of the DC that is almost equal to a Model-3 Step 1.5 maybe (without TF and AA). But I don't think that even hackers would approach the performance that is needed to match a Model-3 Step 2. So I think Scud Race is *theoretically* possible, a worthy "1:1" conversion with 60fps and all details of Rally2 or Daytona2 is practically impossible.

@MrThunderwing

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting facts, thanks!

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

Also there is the huge memory and bandwith advantage all Model 3 boards had. In addition to RAM, VRAM and even special RAM for 3d-models, it had huge amounts of mROM for each of those tasks and could directly read from it about as fast as from RAM.

Great analysis, you can really tell that you are a fan and that the subject interests you. Having had the same questions and arrived at the same conclusions, I found your video excellent. But beyond the context of the time, as you explained with the arrival of GRAN TURISMO, which partly explains why we did not have SCUD RACE, DAYTONA USA 2 and many other arcade hits on DREAMCAST, I still wonder why to this day SEGA does not release, like DAYTONA USA on XBOX 360 and PS3, arcade perfect versions of these titles on XBOX SERIES and PS5. The excuse of the use rights of certain brands is the only explanation I see, or else SEGA does not see the gold it has in its hands (5 years laters)

@MrThunderwing

Жыл бұрын

Thanks mate! Yeah, the continued lack of any ports of these is an eternal mystery. I don't think they'd even need to worry about licensing issues with Daytona 2 as the original game is still on sale on the PSN and Xbox live 10+ years after it was first released.

Great video

While I would loved to have seen Daytona 2 and Scud Race on the Dreamcast, I doubt the hardware was up handling arcade perfect conversions. Not saying this is why Sega choose not to do this, I mean the Saturn had ports of nearly all the great model 2 titles after all. Actually I'd be curious if even modern consoles could handle model 3 games. Judging by your videos those titles seem to be more low res than current titles but some of the geometry on those Daytona 2 tracks is insane!

@MrThunderwing

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think the Dreamcast could've done arcade perfect versions of those games, but I think it could've handled ports that would've been pretty damn close (as well as a far better looking port of Sega Rally 2 than the one we ended up with).

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

DC was actually a bit ahead in raw polygon numbers and effects. But it was heavily limited by memory, fillrate and bandwith, so that was merely a theoretical advantage Model 3 was ROM-based and it's CPU and video processors could directly read from it as fast as from RAM/VRAM (which Model 3 also had in addition). It hade a HUGE momory and bandwith advantage. It is actually amazing how well DC holds up! But then again, several years passed and the process of creating 3D-graphics was far more advanced in DC's later years, so games generally were more advanced from a software developing standpoint.

@SamMcDonald83

4 ай бұрын

​@@MH-yp6wg for sure the DC was an awesome system with some great titles!

@MH-yp6wg

4 ай бұрын

It sure was... Model 3 and Dreamcast both were true legends.@@SamMcDonald83

I'd like to see every name of the games you've put in the video. Great video though.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks. If you want to know the names of any specific games, just reply with the time they occur in the video and I'll let you know what they are.

these model 3 games still look great, id gladly buy a collection of them on ps4

Possible that Star Wars Trilogy arcade was left out from ports simply because it was from the original trilogy and not Episode 1 The Phantom Menace. That movie came out in theaters around the same time.

@MrThunderwing

Жыл бұрын

Hrrrm, could be a possibility I guess, sounds feasible. I think one of the first times I played SWT arcade was on a trip up to London to see The Phantom Menace. Ah, happy days...

Daytona 2 looks so fun too man. I hate that I can’t play these

I heard Nicolis is still working on 90s Arcade Racer, but now its renamed: 90s Super GP.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, that's the last thing I heard as well. On their website (or maybe it was steam, I can't remember) it's still down as coming soon.

Scud Race, w.o.w. The McLaren was my favorite.

Awesome video

If you have been following my thread on quad poly emulation, you should have seen that in scud they modeled the cars with quads, including non planar quads which it turns out are almost impossible to draw correctly with triangle rasterizers. It can be done by brute force, by tessellating the quads into many triangles, but it's not a great solution. I think when testing I increased the number of triangles by a factor of something like 10, to get the texturing to look correct. The other solution would have been for sega to go back and just completely re-model all the cars into triangles. But that's a fair bit more work than is usually done for a straight port.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, most of the technical terms are a bit above my pay grade there Ian, but I get the gist of what you're saying. Surely completely remodelling everything from the ground up wouldn't have been that unusual in a port back then though? I'm assuming that in the pre-Dreamcast days the graphics for all the cars and backgrounds for conversions of Model 2 games to Saturn (and Virtua Racing to Megadrive and 32x) would have been done completely from scratch?

@MrDukeeeey

6 жыл бұрын

Well I assume most of the time for ports, they re-use the existing assets without changing them unless absolutely necessary.

@lazarushernandez5827

6 жыл бұрын

Ian, converting any strictly quad poly model(ie all of its polygons are four points each) should just double the count when converting to triangles (basically one quad=2 triangles). Sega as you noted, was mainly using quads back in the 90's (I recall reading the Saturn used quads as well) so their workflow probably did not have a need to convert their objects to triangles, but most commercial 3D programs of the day were capable of the process. 3D programs nowadays generally do have other options for creating smooth(er) objects through subdividing; the higher the factor, the smoother and more dense(higher poly count). When modelling with quads, one typically goes through great lengths to avoid non planar quads (I've worked with 3D software on Amiga, Mac, SGI and PCs), it is not something you try to do intentionally. If Sega's 3D objects from the Model 3 era were using non planar quads it's because they had no other choice. segaretro.org/Sega_Model_3 segaretro.org/Sega_Dreamcast/Technical_specifications These are links to the specs for the Model 3 arcade board (Scud GT ran on version 1.5) and the Dreamcast. The DC seems like it would have been capable of a respectable port of Scud GT. The DC had other capabilities (bump mapping, anisotropic filtering...) that might have required they (Sega) rethink how they approached making the game for the console.

I agree 100%

Virtual-On Oratorio Tangram's DC port was based on the Model 3 version, not the NAOMI one.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Who said anything about it being a NAOMI game...? kzread.info/dash/bejne/nJiaq8aBnKTOj6w.html

@Kuikkamies

6 жыл бұрын

Virtual-On was a Model 2 game, Oratorio Tangram was its sequel.

After all these years and the closest thing we've have is now the recent Like a Dragon Gaiden (man who ereased his name) now features Daytona 2 finally something. Still no Scud Race.

Video Game Developers did not take advantage of how the Arcade Market couldve been perfect place to Let ppl throw $$$ into Game before releasing to console.....

Another great video! Congrats! Really nice narration ! Hope you’ll be contacted by netflix or similar producing a professional serie of videos!

@MrThunderwing

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

vf3 came out way before soul calibur and dead or alive 2, so it's no surprise it didn't look as good as the others. SEGA probably should have built a new fighter possibly using the virtua fighter engine that was easier to pick up and play and contain more flashy effects and special moves at launch. It's still really unfortunate that sega didn't place importance in porting their arcade titles to a standard that was at the very least on par with the arcade. This would have given them something to promote in their marketing too, as you pointed out this was not the possible with any of their previous consoles.

4:11 what song is played during this monment?

@segaboyo2365

6 жыл бұрын

Found it kzread.info/dash/bejne/iKWiuJaShbeWZ7g.html

Great vid. I also feel like Namco has fallen victim of the same business strategy, ever since they were bought out by Bandai they have completely forgotten about their 90s arcade games. I'd love to see an Ace Driver Victory Lap port someday, or even Cyber Cycles

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

advanx Cheers Ryan! Yeah, I only played the demo of Ridge Racer unbounded, but that was enough to convince me it wasn't for me... At least the awesome Deadstorm Pirates, Time Crisis 4 and Razing Storm came out on PS3.

I had a friend who used to work for Sega and got a free Dreamcast that for some reason was clear blue and would run games from all regons (never tried any back ups in it so not sure about them) and as great as it was I'd say it was a fair bit away from the power needed to run perfect model 3 games. The driving games deffinatly played better with the DC steering wheel which I also blagged for free! good times!!!

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Cool. You can actually run CD-R burnt backups from any region on a regular stock Dreamcast with no need for any soft mods or chipping. I think it was something about the use of the Dreamcasts GD-ROM technology that meant it was open to this exploit (or something).

Not even Virtua Fighter was perfectly ported.

where'd you get that Katana footage?

@MrThunderwing

5 жыл бұрын

Have a read of the video description.

i feel it would be interesting to directly compare the naomi board vs the model 3

@MrThunderwing

2 жыл бұрын

Well, I couldn't really do a direct comparison, because there aren't any games that came out on both arcade boards, so it'd have to be a comparison of something like Crazy Taxi or Ferrari F355 Vs one of the Model 3 racers. There are Dreamcast ports of Model 3 games, so you could compare something like Virtua Fighter 3 directly, but although the Dreamcast is based on the Naomi hardware, it's not as powerful as it doesn't have as much RAM.

it seems that the thread of arcade controls was deleted

3:49 outrunners. Great game.

Are the arcade titles shown running on emulation?

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Yep.

To be honest I really don't give a flying duck about Sonic or Mario Nintendo and Sega need to really give more attention to their back catalogue more We really need ports of Daytona USA and scud race now Alongside a re-release of outrun 2

Not really Model 3 related but with Hydro Thunder and Rush 2049, it would have only made sense for a Dreamcast release of California Speed and/or Cruisn' games but no. I would have also liked to have seen a home version of the Harley-Davidson game. Maybe even CART Fury that ended up with a port to PS2.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Stinger2578 Hydro Thunder was the first game I got for my Dreamcast (other than the ones included in the deal I got). I'd never played the arcade version, but I'd heard good things about it and it certainly didn't disappoint.

put Daytona 1 and 2 for the Xbox 1 x or PlayStation pro. I'd buy that in half a second to get the download or dvd.

12:06 this was done in about week according to a verified source at the time.

UK has a good/bad situation with ports. Good. Battletoads and scart output. Bad: 50fps and black bars. It's super crazy

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

GamerGee Totes. The fully optimised PAL 60 Dreamcast games looked amazing, so yeah, it was a case of taking the rough with the smooth.

Did you actually see StarWars Arcade (Model 3) in England? Sega Bass Fishing, Fighting Vipers 2, Virtua Fighter 3, Sega Rally 2, Dynamite Cop and Daytona found a port.

@MrThunderwing

Жыл бұрын

Yup, I played on it a few times back in the day. There's actually a retro arcade in the centre of my city that's got a SWT Arcade cabinet, but it wasn't working last time I went there. You can see it this video here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qpmK0sdufdu4dLA.html

I agree that Daytona USA 2001 for the Dreamcast was a really accurate port of the arcade game. It was a shame that the controls were botched when trying to play the game with the Dreamcast pad, but play it with a racing wheel, and it is surprisingly accurate. It is a shame that they didn't just ad the Daytona 2 tracks to the Dreamcast port. Sega Rally 2 isn't a bad game on the Dreamcast when you use that 60fps code. But yes, I agree it was a shame that the DC game didn't look as good as the arcade original. Not sure why Sega used the Windows CE operating system? But it did hinder the performance of the Dreamcast.

Nice video. I have not run into 3rd party fair use as of yet, fingers crossed. lol Have you heard about the new Sega Console?

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Guy The IT Guy New Console? Nope. I've seen a lot of hoax reports of Dreamcast 2s in the past though.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Oh, and thanks for the compliment :)

@emulatorretro

6 жыл бұрын

MrThunderwing ok hoping they can pull this off and not tank it. We need Sega to come back.

Good video, but what is the song that plays at 4:11 mark?

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

(Somebody already asked this in the comments below) It's called 'So High', it's one of the tunes from Sega Touring car. Was never a massive fan of the game but always loved it's soundtrack - mid-90's dance music awesome ness!

@MrRaivokasMagma

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you! It sounded so good :)

I never found the handling that annoying in 2001, at least after some practice. I had the Japanese version as well. The game really sings when you unlock The Unicorn, which is the closest thing to the McLaren in Scud Race. It's like the sneaked the more tricky handling from SR/D2 into the game by stealth. Pity the tracks didn't make it as you say because they've got a bit more spectacle. The championship modes high difficulty kept me coming back to practice and practice though it was really addictive. There are few things more joyous than an original Scud Race cabinet. I was lucky enough to have one at a nearby pub till the mid 00's so I played it for years. I think at the time sadly people didn't care about these games much. These types of arcade games have dated really well since because nobody has really done them well since (aside from OR2 and S&SASRT maybe).

Nobody had heard of Scud Race outside of a few mentions in the hardcore gaming mags at the time. To me, the tragedy was the Genki arcade ports, so for instance, with Virtual Fighter - we had a rushed/messed up Virtua Fighter for Saturn, then finally an ace conversion of Virtual Fighter 2 from AM2, then when Dreamcast launches...another rushed port, of Virtual Fighter 3, =S. I never actually bothered to buy it - so maybe it wasn't that bad. But certainly, it didn't look so hot by the time of the DC's UK launch, and I just got Sonic Adventure instead at launch.

@ajmetz82

6 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it. I always felt Scud Race got no attention, after the huge success of Daytona and Sega Rally. There are *still* Daytona machines in two venues within walking distance from me. No Scud Race anywhere, XD. So I'm glad it may have got more love in other locations, =). It seemed like a real next-gen racer. Was excited for a Model 3 racer, after VF3 showed us Model 3 fighting, =).

the fact we are still watching sega games says it all . sega your strengths were always world class arcade games full stop . you had a small window to release inch perfect conversions ( scud race / daytona 2 / sega rally 2 / FV2 / VF3TB ) IF and i do mean IF theyd released these , it would have satisfied sega fans like ourselves , and give strong arguement to have a dreamcast . instead they made mistake after mistake trying to be sony , which they are not , and neglected their own strengths , even now its upsetting to think how they blew it .

6:06 sega Saturn logo sign

Nothing went wrong. I always thought hat by the time I owned the Dreamcast,I thought Dreamcast was more Powerful than model 3, but it was not. Maybe was equal or a bit better than model 3 step.1.0. But not better than 2.0 or 3.0. Maybe sega didn't want to release ports from 2.0 or 3.0 games because of shame.

@MrThunderwing

10 ай бұрын

That doesn't make any sense though amigo, by that reasoning they'd have never released any Saturn or Megadrive or Mastersystem games, if they were embarrassed that the hardware couldn't handle it. The Dreamcast could've handled a decent looking port of Scud Race and Daytona USA 2.

Hopefully we will get scud race on modern gen home consoles in the future I really want Sega to port outrun sp on Xbox One and the graphics would look great in 4k

9:10 facts. Youre speaking facts.

Possible that AM2 was too busy making Shenmue 1 and 2 to make Dreamcast ports of Virtua Fighter 3 and Daytona USA 2.

@MrThunderwing

Жыл бұрын

I have heard something to that effect, which might explain why the VF3 got farmed out to a 3rd party.

I think the problem for the dreamcast was microsoft, not really sony. The "partnership" between sega and microsoft was (in my feeling) an internal destruction of sega for the future xbox profit. Microsoft employees in dreamcast time was on the lead launching of xbox..... conspiracy :P

@STAXONDECK1

2 ай бұрын

Bingo, Microsoft is a virus they killed the last great Japanese gaming company

Great video! I do wonder though if the Dreamcast could really have handled Scud Race and Daytona 2. Sure Daytona 2001 looks good but just look at the detail in the backgrounds of those model 3 games. I love the Dreamcast but I really doubt Sega could have made arcade perfect conversions. Good adaptions maybe, but not perfect ports. Anything less than perfect could have disappointed fans so my guess is Sega chose not to take the risk.

@MrThunderwing

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I would have been happy with a good adaptation if it ran at 60fps, didn't have any pop up and looked reasonably faithful to the arcade version of Scud Race (I think the DC version of Rush 2049 gives a pretty good idea of what something like that could have looked like).

@SamMcDonald83

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah I definitely think you're right. Fans would have certainly appreciated some proper adaptions of those titles even if they'd not be quite arcade perfect.