Obscuring haze is NOT just combat damage, there are several cards that deal damage as parts of combos! Syr Konrad and reckless fireweaver come to mind

@Servbot40

Жыл бұрын

This an amazing example... of where removal would just be better.

@Guru4hire

Жыл бұрын

Aetherflux resevoir.

@Servbot40

Жыл бұрын

@@Guru4hire Still not a great example, since casting obscuring Haze in response would just lead to you losing and your opponents looking at you weird for casting it. You would need an effect like Riot Control to stop Aetherflux Reservoir, and even then I would rather have removal to stop the Reservoir from getting out of hand in the first place.

@SirSmudgeProductions

Жыл бұрын

I say the added politics of saving an opponent and then them returning the favor in a larger way is worth mentioning. People don't seem to consider the added ability to politic with these sorts of effects. IE: If I save you can you do X, Y, or Z (with more value than the fog or single target removal would have done). That said, still run enough removal. -_-

@Servbot40

Жыл бұрын

@SirSmudgeProductions Yeah but you also just said it, removal would also do the same, and I'd argue more, by saving them for political favor, but not saving them 100% as they still need to lose in the end for you to win. I think the best anolgy for Fogs is this; Fogs are a compress over a bullet wound, yeah it will stop the bleeding in the short term, but a scalpel is needed to remove the bullet to ultimately save the patient.

Obscuring Haze could be used as a Fog, yes. Obscuring Haze could more efficiently be used to stop Glint-Horn Buccaneer//Curiosity combo if the blue players at the table couldn't successfully respond. There are other cases that aren't so niche, but it does say all damage, not _COMBAT_ damage and I think that nuance was left out of the conversation because it is a crucial distinction.

@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS

Жыл бұрын

Damage is so last decade though. Any player worth their weight in mountain dew will be using loss of life effects.

@Hurtishappy

Жыл бұрын

“Does it go in sea monster tribal?” Is the best question for Tomer

@commanderpower99

Жыл бұрын

Why not Swords to Plowshare that Buccaneer instead?

@andrewpayseur

Жыл бұрын

@@commanderpower99 If you aren't running white, or have no way to produce white mana.

@Servbot40

Жыл бұрын

This use is still worse than using Deadly Rolick and removing the problem forever. Even if you just want to stay in mono green which is the only place this even deserves a mention, beast within works here too, as does every natualize effect in the world. All of which will get a first look long before a one time use Fog.

Just a little thing about Infernal Sovereign : you can't really be denied a draw with it. Since you're skipping the entire draw step, you go from you upkeep straight to your main phase, so if you skept your draw step you will always be able to play a land or a sorcery speed card and get a draw. And if it's dealt with before the draw step, well you'll get your typical draw anyway. Maybe someone told it after the point I'm actually listening but I neede to write this out before I forget it.

@HelloThere-uu8ln

Жыл бұрын

Don't think it was mentioned - nice catch 👍🏾

Somebody alert the media, Seth has managed to successfully pronounce Eiganjo correctly. I am legitimately thrilled

@godspeedhero3671

8 ай бұрын

No he didn't lmao

Richard and Seth fog tier list please!

@av110386

Жыл бұрын

Tomer trying to invite himself to the fog tier list when no one wants him there

@nicholaskane4693

Жыл бұрын

PLEASE. constant mists is absurd, especially in landfall lists

@revenantbacon3937

Жыл бұрын

Well, Ink Shield is obviously #1, then Constant Mists, then Selfless Squire. Everything else is up for debate.

@T_Peazy

Жыл бұрын

@RevenantBacon disrespecting spore frog like that?

@ComfyDents

Жыл бұрын

Dawn Charn op! :D

Dress Down is exemplary. A two mana, one blue pip Stifle that draws. Although a little niche, a cheap removal spell that draws a card is way too good to overlook.

@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS

Жыл бұрын

Stops elesh norn buff, stops thassas oracle effect, etc. Pitches to force and pact and if nothing else gets a card and replaces itself. It's an auto include in my book.

@dantran3087

Жыл бұрын

Pulled two in a mh2 box, just wanted to give it a shot because of it being a unique Interaction, now I'm running it in every blue deck I have 😅

@adamfiliatreault3393

Жыл бұрын

I mean it's blue so of course it's over-powered for its cost

@fangoukulele7570

Жыл бұрын

It's a cedh staple for a reason, but then again stax isn't a thing in regular edh as I've been told

@iamsoithink1

Жыл бұрын

@@adamfiliatreault3393 yah. If it was a white card it would be double the CMC/mv

I wanna see that two headed giants game, where crim/tomer vs seth/richard settle once and for all who's favorite edh jank is coming out on top.

Richard doesn't seem very convinced that Tomer's plants are fine 😂

@robertbryce3225

Жыл бұрын

I'm with him on that. Picture of the plants with a newspaper, or to be shown prominently in a live video. If not, then we contact the relevant authorities in Canada and report them as missing, presumed dead.

@mrbelbobaggins8959

Жыл бұрын

Isn’t he supposed to give them to a fan at some point lol

@davidcrain453

Жыл бұрын

We need to see the plants alive and well Tomer....😂

My secret tech is Incarnation Technique in basically any deck with 20+ creatures. There is always a deck at the table that you can target in such a way that they are very unlikely to get anything good, think the spellslinger or the artifact player. But when you have good creatures in your deck, boom! You get two of them. A nice side effect other than filling your GY is that the opponents have no interaction points between the spell being cast and the creatures entering play, so you can take advantage of that with certain very powerful creatures, like razaketh.

@Sinistra359

Жыл бұрын

Love the technique cycle. I play healing technique in green life gain decks. I know Richard would like it, it's a sorcery skullwinder! Lol

Obscuring Haze has another upside in that you can use it on your attack step and prevent damage. So it can be proactive.

@damienjohnson3450

Жыл бұрын

This! I have used it to K.O. people before.

@ReLeaseHaVoc

Жыл бұрын

@@damienjohnson3450 I'll be honest I still don't run it but it is more versatile than your standard fog.

@aaron2669

Жыл бұрын

And it prevents all damage not just combat damage

@damienjohnson3450

Жыл бұрын

@@ReLeaseHaVoc I got 1 copy and I honestly would put it in more decks. The amount of times you just needed one more turn is wild. It's also just damage in general, not just combat damage. So depending on the combo you might actually just save yourself, for example the new infinite with new Ob Nix and All Will Be One.

@Arrok

Жыл бұрын

Small situational benefits over other fogs is that Obscuring Haze can also shut off certain creature based combos like Niv curiosity because it doesn't specify combat damage.

Just wanted to share my favorite tech :) : Mystic Reflection! It deals "permanently" with must-answer commanders (as long as it's not aristocrats), can be used for fun, flexible on-the-spot combos, if necessary can be used as creature counter, and is just a generally fun card.

Fogs are indeed super underrated. I've won more games after playing a fog than a targeted removal for sure!

@dragondest4

Жыл бұрын

fogs are only good in playgroups where combat actually matters

@FearOgre

Жыл бұрын

Fogs are overall subpar niche cards

@marshallscot

Жыл бұрын

​@@dragondest4Most players win through combat one way or another.

@dragondest4

Жыл бұрын

@@marshallscot my playgroup is very combo heavy

@nicolmanninc3578

9 ай бұрын

@@dragondest4 start going under them then its a meta call

Whirlwind Denial I consider it to be on the same level as Teferi's Protection. It just shuts down whatever your opponents are doing to win.

The problem with removal vs fogs is that when I'm playing one of my aggressive, creature based decks and somebody removes my best creature, I don't care. But if I swing out to kill somebody and they fog me, I lose. "Fogs are situational" but the situation is a phase that every player gets each turn and the way most decks win games.

@atk9989

Жыл бұрын

I play fogs in nearly every deck and they win me games all the time.

This pod was really good. Everyone was pretty reasonable. And it was odd to see Tomer and Crim agreeing on almost everything.

I love that no matter what card they bring up everyone griefs it a little bit because we have four almost completely conflicting play styles with these four, completely different points of views and opinions that are all completely valid because of what Magic is as a game

@wesleywyndam-pryce5305

11 ай бұрын

thats why I love these discussion podcasts, so many viewers seem to miss this though and think 1 person was right for every card and the rest are fools.

I'm with Tomer and Crim on Filter Out. The fact that it doesn't hit creatures is easily balanced out by how cheap it is and the instant speed aspect. Its definitely at its strongest in creature heavy decks or spellslinger decks that don't have many permanents in the first place, but even just doing it on the end step so you get to redeploy first is a big deal. Also a good way to deal with treasure spamming

Tomer is most definitely underating fog effects. Moments Peace is such a great fog also because most people dont see the flashback fog from the graveyard coming then die on the crack back.

Obscuring haze is even better than most fogs in another way as well. It just says damage from creatures. Not combat damage. It is good against things like Purphoros and Terror of the peaks which tend to be win cons in creature based decks which include red.

@lettucegod5505

Жыл бұрын

I was screaming at my monitor why Tomer said but my removal would stop a blood artist combo killing me🤓

@Pantjay

Жыл бұрын

@@lettucegod5505 Obscuring haze specifies damage not loss of life, so it doesn't work against things like blood artist, extort triggers or meathook massacre but would against mayhem devils, Gharna Bloodfist of Keld and Syr Konrad. Damage causes loss of life but they are two different things according to the rules, confused the hell out of me when I first encountered it.

@lettucegod5505

Жыл бұрын

@@Pantjay okay so if it says, like x deals 1 damage to all players that would get ignored, but something like each player looses 1 life would not ?

@Pantjay

Жыл бұрын

@@lettucegod5505 Exactly, as long as the source of damage was a creature, just realized I put meathook in my last post but that is an enchantment. So things like raid bombardment still work.

Seth’s facial expressions from 20:22 onwards are just gold

One of the things people don't appreciate about fogs is the offensive capability. You can swing absolutely recklessly and not have to worry about revenge. I've had people swing back with everything and leave themselves exposed to still more swings, like if you get somebody tilted at you or if you're down to two players fog is pretty much straight wincon.

I legit can’t believe they were arguing about if “whenever you cast a spell, draw a card” is good 😂

@tonysmith9905

10 ай бұрын

They think that if any thing can die it's bad xD

"The logic! My brain is melting!" had me dying XD

So glad to see Restoration of Eiganjo getting some love! Way to go, Seth

@jamesclare1858

Жыл бұрын

They seemed to be focused on Restoration as land ramp which I think takes away from it. I"ve used this card for awhile and found it useful to just hit your 4th land drop on turn, put a 2 cmc card into play & play a 4 drop (ie. commander).

@kovala

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesclare1858 exactly! At the minimum it’s land ramp, but it’s ceiling can be much higher. Not to mention you can also discard a 2 mana rock or Knight of White Orchid and then return it to play if you’d rather go the route Tomer was thinking.

@ohfish9499

Жыл бұрын

Restoration is so gas with ossification in standard, love that card so much

@ConManAU

Жыл бұрын

I’m mostly impressed Seth managed to pronounce it correctly, because I’ve only ever heard him call it “Restoration of Ejanno”.

@UniGya

Жыл бұрын

Restoration of Eiganjo is pure gas in my Shorikai, Genesis Engine deck. I'm already looking every turn and filling up the grave so these sun titan-esque revival effects are already good, but the fact that it makes sure you're hitting a land drop and/or ramping you early on is so good

A 3/4 Vigilance that makes even more bodies is incredibly *decent* as free upside to your Land fixing and reanimation or ramp card: Restoration of Eiganjo is an all-star value card.

Always happy to see these episodes pop up in my subscriptions

Fogs are strong, when you can safely swing your board out without retalitation. Always play 1 or 2 in my creature heavy decks.

I would play obscuring haze over ink shield 😆. 5 mana is just way too much to hold up I’ve never been able to get it to work well. Unless you’re running a lot of cards with flash like opposition agent, archivist of ogma, deep gnome terramancer etc. obviously it works well in instant speed spellslinger.

Lmao, Seth's facial expressions when Tomer and Crim talked about "Filter Out" were golden. Never saw him so confused before. xD

8:04 I was thinking about this as soon as Seth mentioned the fog. Teferis is even better because sometimes it's a fog, sometimes it's a board wipe protection.

@surfinggarchomp2820

Жыл бұрын

Settle the wreckage

I always try to have at least one Fog effect in all of my decks. There are some situations where Fog is literally the only answer. I am also becoming a big fan of Filter Out. End Step it on the Enchantress player and they need to discard down to hand size. People also just play big durdley Artifacts and Enchantments. Make them re-play those cards so you have another opportunity to counter them.

Breach the Multiverse is absolutely cracked. First time I saw it put on the stack, I told my buddy it was too expensive for not enough. And then I got played against it in a pod and I’ve been nothing but impressed every time I’ve seen it.

Inkshield is literally the card that has killed me the most in commander in the last year and a half. I've been blown out by it 4 times as I try to go for lethal attacks. No other single card has killed me as much as this one card.

@felipeguidolin1055

Жыл бұрын

My playgroup asked me to remove it, because it was an insta kill every time

@Programme021

Жыл бұрын

It's so telegraphed though, isn't it?

@felipeguidolin1055

Жыл бұрын

@@Programme021 even if it is, what are people going to do? Not attack you anymore?

@Programme021

Жыл бұрын

@@felipeguidolin1055 Attacking you for less, keeping a counter spell or politicing for a counter spell mostly I guess ?

@felipeguidolin1055

Жыл бұрын

@@Programme021 a counter will deal with a lot, but if you don't have stack interaction it's really hard to deal with this. If you attack me for little damage, I will just take it or chump block. If you attack with anything over 10, I can hit you back for more than 20. If I am playing Aristocrats and this hits, it's almost certainly an auto-win: you get drained when tokens etb by Ayara/Corpse Knight, you get drained by Blood Artist/Zulaport if you try to wrath or if I sac them. Without exagerating... Of the 5 times I won with Orzhov Aristocrats, 4 were due to Inkshield, and 1 was a wrath on a full board with Teysa + Blood Artist + Vizkopa Guildmage. It was the best card in the deck by a mile.

I love Filter Out! One thing that wasn’t mentioned too heavily is blue doesn’t deal with enchantments very well. Think about Smothering Tithe, Phyrexian Arena, Rhystic Study, all the problematic cards that get set up early game. For 3 mana at instant speed to bounce it all?? That’s awesome!

At 20:20 seth's facial expression to crim saying "this card is huge!" Was amazing

@nicholaskane4693

Жыл бұрын

seth always has the best expressions during these

22:20 I would play filter out IN enchantress itself! It saves your stuff from a board wipe and retriggers your card draw and etbs while setting others behind.

Restoration of Eiganjo is genuinely fire. It has synergy with flicker/blink decks as well to flip the creature back to the saga and continually snag Plains. The pitch/reanimate chapter is so good for retrieving spent sac creatures like Dauntless dismantler, as well as cheating stax pieces into play besides just doubling up on land drops. It gets back fetches. It massively overperformed relative to what I had expected when I slotted it in and is a reliable roleplayer with a high ceiling given the reight synergies.

A recent cEDH tournament featured a finals where Peer Into the Abyss was Deflecting Swatted. Can't do that with an indestructible spell.

Stasis Coffin is my secret tech. It you can play it, if necessary activate it as it's not too expensive. But it provides a heavy deterence to being attacked without threatening your opponent's board presence, but still threatening a counter attack if they force an activation.

a note about Berserk is its specifically a destroy effect. I've used it on my Blightsteel to ensure a kill and keep my creature.

Inkshield is a fantastic card in an agro deck. Anything lower to the ground where you want to run out cards on the first 4 turns leaves you not wanting to over extend. From there you can often be playing with 5+ mana up. I play it in Breena with a lot of 1 drops, works like a charm. Bolt Bend being your instant speed, on the stack, interaction is fantastic for Jund decks. It's often hard to find something in those colors that can stop a Counterspell or a Time Warp or a Peer into the Abyss or a Blue Sun's Zennith. Bolt Bend not only stops those from having their expected outcome, it positively interacts with those spells by stealing their effects and all for only one mana. For personal secret tech cards Tainted Strike, Silence, and Angel's Grace take the cake for me. Tainted Strike can either delete a player, fog a creature, or shrink an indestructible creature. It goes in any deck I can shoe horn it into. Silence and Angel's Grace can often timewalk an opponent or positively interact on the stack with another player trying to combo out which is rare enough for me to warrant an inclusion for most of my decks.

A personal favorite is Mandate of Peace. My pod has a combat heavy meta and while the bare fog effect is nice there, I also use it to stifle attack triggers, combat tricks, or damage triggers.

the problem with Viridian Revel is how many green enchantments that have 'When X, then draw a card'. I would typically prefer the ones I can control like Guardian Project. its been on my almost list many times but just end s up in the last cuts list

@25:05, Seth, when you bounce their permeants to their hand once they pass second main, they can only keep the 7 best cards and will have to discard. I know this isnt like DESTROY/EXILE everything but 3 mana to hold up at your leisure, Filter Out is good.

Glory might be amazing in my archangel avacyn deck.... great pick Tomer!

Breach the Multiverse is my ideal follow-up on the turn after I cast The Haunt of Hightower.

@wfmacmillan

7 ай бұрын

I love Haunt of the Hightower so much. I came back to Magic after not playing for over a decade and this was in the current set and I built a Dimir mill deck and I fell back in love with the game and specifically Dimir all over

I like Bolt Bend, but I really like Bolt Bender. It’s a fun win condition in my Zada deck. There are a lot of threaten effects that do something else for you, like make a treasure or add some mana or something that I would want to be running in my Zada deck anyway, but if I cast one of those on Zada and then flip Bolt Bender, I can change the targets of the copies onto my opponents’ creatures and steal all of their big threats for a turn, usually winning me the game. And it doubles as protection from counterspells and the like, even the uncounterable ones like Dovin’s Veto. I love it. It also happens to be a goblin for my tribal synergies. I love it in that deck.

If your playgroup is inundated by Teferi's Protections and Clever Concealments may i suggest Time and Tide to bring those cowards back to face the wrath!

@starmanda88

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think that really works since time and tide only phases in creatures no 🤔

@KellyUnekis

Жыл бұрын

@@starmanda88 That's exactly what I use it to do. Make the cowards (creatures) face the wrath. You do know the player doesn't phase out, right?

Constant mists is genuinely the reason most of my combat based decks have some form of alternative wincon. I completely agree with Richard that some decks just, cannot beat a constant mists and a crucible of worlds.

@hansrudolph8343

Жыл бұрын

Gl playing Constant Mist every turn in 1 v 3..

@atk9989

Жыл бұрын

Board state threats are usually taken into account iv never been 3v1 oned because of a constant mist. Generally you fog the player trying to kill the table then everyone hits the guy that just almost won. Then you redo threat assessment and if your board isn't that scary they will go after the actual threat to them.

@networkzanimex

Жыл бұрын

@@hansrudolph8343 The point isn't to spam Constant Mists when there are 4 players in the game. In the early, you likely won't cast it often. In the mid game, you deploy Constant Mists when necessary to protect yourself from an alpha strike. In the late game, ideally once the game has reduced to a 1v1, you loop Constant Mists with Crucible, Excavator, or similar cards keeping your land count high. In other words, it is more of a prison-style finisher that can save your hide in the middle of a game if need be than something you try to derp on a full table from the beginning of the game.

Deep Gnome Terramancer worked well for my buddy. We were playing lots of land ramp cards like Three Visits but also the 5 color deck kept triggering from their fetches.

Richard really has me rethinking my entire deck building strategy, and I’m here for it.

@hopposai787

Жыл бұрын

Dont fall for it.

Constant Mists can't keep up with 3 possible attackers and 1 land drop per turn.

I think Viridian Revel is somewhat meta dependent, mostly by if players in the group have up to date decks. If the boomer has an old deck pre-treasure era it's a lot weaker. But I do think it's very worth testing! But that Jund deck Tomer pitched for it does actually sound sick

You guys brought it up real quick, but can get we a stream discussing your picks for budget replacements for expensive cards

the wording on Obscuring Haze also stops specific combos where a creature is dealing damage, such as Syr Konrad and Living Death.

I really enjoyed this video. My only wish was each member would have given each card presented a grade afterwards.

Pygmy Kavu has put in work for me, sometimes you get a 4 cmc draw 10+ out of it, sometimes you draw nothing, but it's still a blocker.

Restoration is especially good in constellation since it gives you a second trigger when it flips

Hey, I run Filter Out in my Chulane deck and let me tell you, it's pretty much a 3 mana Cyclonic Rift. One of the best blue bounce spells ever made.

The uncommon Anger cycle is from the graveyard-heavy Judgment set. So are Genesis and Glory, but Judgment was also the Green/White set, so those colors got rares that did something similar.

Speaking of fog effects, one of my fav tech cards in my mono white soldier tribal deck is Frontline Strategist. An old mono white morph that when flipped prevents all combat dmg from non-soldiers. Very niche, kinda/pretty jank, definitely a card that would be cut out, but I love it cause who expects anyone playing a random morph in mono white that is also a fog

Commit // memory is my under rated tech for dealing with enchantments in my grixis decks the fact that it's also a wheel is just icing on the cake

I'm playing viridian revel over sylvan library in my cedh deck these days as it consistently draws me 10+ cards a game, and has drawn my entire deck. Busted in a dockside heavy meta. Also kinda nutty with Culling Ritual after everyone ramps with 0/1/2 mana rocks - sweep the board clean, get mana for it and cards to spend the mana on.

Gotta agree with Richard, constant mists in my lands deck has won me games several times.

I run Viridian Revel in my Vazi, Keen Negotiaor deck along with the other cards Crim mentioned.

I think that something you missed about fogs is that you compared them to solutions in other colours. What if you don't have white ? Or blue ? In a golgari superfriends deck, fogs are underrated like crazy ! When you only need yourself or your planeswalkers to survive one table turn, constant mist is pure magic ! And because people don't run them, they are alway surprised : they expect some destruction, counterspells, to be blocked, but combat focused decks never play around fogs, and that's a huge benefit for the fog player :D

Everyone is super focused on removal with the Swat Effects. But they can also re-direct a bunch of card draw spells & even a bunch of extra turn spells due to a lot of them saying Target player.

Filter Out is bonkers for Izzet spellslingers like me lol. Filter out gets rid of all the white stax pieces so we can go off. It’s absolutely amazing! Put it in my Mizzix and Octavia decks. It’s great!

Dress down works really good in Hanna :) recurring it every turn

Breach also mills and reanimates in the same effect, not two seperate lines. So If a card uses a trigger to shuffle in, like old Eldrazi, it's a valid target to reanimate.

If you don't need the extra fixing you can put a Liquimetal Torque as your ramp in with Viridian Revel and turn things into artifacts when they're about to die in combat or to removal

Love Seth's face during that Filter Out discussion xD

I’m with Crim on infernal sovereign. I play that and null profusion in an Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath deck alongside Alhammarret’s Archive.

Vesuvan Duplimancy. With a cantrip in hand that targets your stuff, you can protect yourself and get etb triggers.

This episode: Seth: I present the best Fog ever created. Tomer and Crim: That's too narrow. 60 seconds later.... Tomer: I present a super narrow blue fog. 🤔🤨

@ELDevaux

Жыл бұрын

Filter Out is a lot better than fog lol

@dragondest4

Жыл бұрын

filter out is not in any way shape or form a fog. filter out is insanely powerful

@Donovarkhallum

Жыл бұрын

​@@dragondest4it dissipates just like a fog. In the haziness. Of a fog you can't see. That translates into the loss of abilities. It's an ability fog as opposed to a damage fog.

@hainzyy

Жыл бұрын

I really thought i was the stubborn annoying viewer thinking about this the moment i heard the Filter Out card... Im glad it was as obvious as it sounds like in the comments. I agree

@danhick3150

Жыл бұрын

From play testing with filter out I've found I spend 3 mana to put back my opponents 5 mana each. Not to mention it very rarely harms me since I can play around it. If you want to compare bounce effects to anything then compare them to taxing effects not fog effects.

One of the funniest interactions I ever had was when I was facing someone in a pod who had Viridian Revel and I was running a treasure heavy deck. They started laughing when they played it bc they kept drawing when I would crack treasures. And I ended up drawing smothering tithe and played it which made him laugh even more he had said “haha you’re just gonna keep feeding me all this free draw, you’re screwed”. But then when I noticed he was tapped out it clicked lmao. Started cracking my treasures and milled him out on the spot…he didn’t think about that 😂.

I love Fogs. A Fog is one of the only things that can stop an infinite combo without being infinite itself (as long as the infinite combo revolves around infinite combat damage). I have pulled several major hat-tricks to win the game, despite my opponent going infinite, with a Fog. Usually Obscuring Haze

Restoration of Eiganjo does well in my Isshin deck. A little ramp, and then making 2 spirit tokens every attack is decent.

@zackkelley2940

Жыл бұрын

Goes great in Kykar as well. Get a spirit and a basic plains on cast, get back a 2 drop on chapter 2, and then you get a decent creature that makes more spirits.

filter out btw also good on wheel decks :d bounce scary stuff and wheel them in your turn away! (try me enchantress that just got milled by my wheel!)

Restoration of Eiganjo is so much value in a Preston the Vanisher deck :3

Glory is absolutely amazing! I've never heard of this card so it definitely goes in my avacyn deck! Give everything protection until i can cast avacyn? Yes please. Though how how to get in the graveyard? But it's definitely awesome in any white+X graveyard deck

For the Fog tier list: Terrifying Presence. Great in voltron decks and can be used aggressively there. Otherwise it's a 2 mana Fog. I also run Winds of Qal Sisma, but that's basically just my placeholder for Obscuring Haze.

Inkshield has won me a lot of games. But it's rotted in my hand a few times too. Overall I think it's worth it.

Something I believe you guys overlook is that inkshield creates the bodies for any prevented damage to any players. Of course somebody may not attack the player with 5 open mana, but it doesn't have to fog for you, so it can politic and create a deadly board. You were evaluating it as a fog but its really just instant speed token creation. Generally not worth popping off unless your expecting to prevent seven or more damage... 5 mana for 14 power of flyers is good in most formats

Obscuring Haze isn't just a fog though, it's also a combat trick since it doesn't prevent your own creatures from dealing damage.

@adamhenwood1114

Жыл бұрын

Tomer was so frustrating discussing this card. “Sure you can cast this in green but what about this Orzhov or Blue card?”

@marshallscot

Жыл бұрын

@@adamhenwood1114 Yeah, I usually agree with Tomer but he missed the mark with this one. I think sometimes they let their own play experiences bias their takes too much. Most play groups have players with big creatures. Getting an opponent to whiff on a big swing can easily knock them out of the game.

Regarding the question at the very end: I’m team fog. I don’t use fogs at all really but I don’t use Filter Out either and if I had to choose between preventing all damage or bouncing non-creature permanents, I would prevent the damage. There have been way more situations where I was facing a massive attack for lethal compared to when there was an annoying artifact or enchantment that I wanted gone for just one turn

Inkshield works for me most times I hold open mana. The trick is to look at your opponents' boards. If they have creatures, then ask the following questions: 1. Am I archenemy? 2. Does the player who is archenemy consider me a threat? 3. Is someone about to swing at everyone for 40? If the answer to any of these is yes, then hold open 5 mana. Politic so that you're the threat, or do something to aggravate the potential attacker. 9 times out of 10 it'll do the trick.

Infernal Sovereign is going in my Queza deck. Sure, I could have played her as wheels, but I thought connive and other draw attached to slapping people was more fun. Plus she just recovers the life and dishes it out to the table.

In casual people often dont need a fog unless their opp is swinging out for the win. Inkshield not only lets you survive but lets your opponents die and makes you a ton of tokens to swing back for lethal where regular fogs would let all of your opponents survive and beat you next turn. Inkshield isnt a good card but it is a timmy card and in casual formats it is amazing since most people have creature based decks.

Fogs feel really good when your about to die. You don't have to sacrafice a removal slot for a fog. I do like them more in decks where you worry about a clap back.

Filter Out is very obviously good. I have no idea why there was a debate there. It's literally 3 mana Cyclonic Rift against a ton of decks.

In defense of swat effects. If they cast auras or combat tricks or recursion or a tutor this is a counterspell. They go to reanimate worldgorger dragon and you make them get a mana dork. They cast vampiric tutor for a combo piece you make them get a land. They get eldrazi conscription or phyresis and you put it on a creature you control. And if you can copy any of those you are way way better off. They also work great as removal in spellslinger decks and mono red decks. You can get someone's removal even if it isn't hitting you. EX So opponent A has a smothering tithe and a ghostly prison. You need to attack. Opponent B casts naturalize on the smothering tithe. You redirect it to the ghostly prison and can take opponent A out next turn.

“It synergizes with your blue mana.” Now that is pure comedy gold 😂@1:34:20

Obscuring Haze is like a mini G boardwipe. I play it everywhere and it ALWAYS slaps.

Fogs are almost always subpar Dress down is not a secret, its known tech. Restoration of Eiganjo is subpar and not ramp. I've always had a soft spot for glory.

Thomer , wild ricochet does the same thing that wylls reversal and you dont even have to roll a dice to get the bonus. Cost you one more mana tho. ( i always loved that card since i resolved it against sublime epiphany)

I use Otherworldly Journey and Long Road Home to protect my commander or another key creature from any removal, including wraths.

I agree with Tomer on Obscuring Haze... defensive spells can sit in your hand for a long time. But I still play Obscuring Haze!

@GallantLee

Жыл бұрын

also Inkshield works!!

It's hard to argue with anything Crim says while he's wearing that Yusuke shirt.

So for anyone wondering about the "Reversal" style cards, think of it this way- in a non-blue deck, these are your counterspells (with extra value). At worst Wyll's Reversal is Negate with +1 cost and extra value. The other two are almost always even better rate Negate. If you're not running blue and you're in red you probably should have 2 to 3 of these effects. The applications for them are virtually limitless.