Richard's whole deck being shutdown by one swords to plowshare is not lost here. lol

Crim, the man who only a few Clashes ago refused to pay for Rhystic Study: "I will never give you a resource."

@fernandotanigushi8310

2 жыл бұрын

I do think that Crim hatting on green became a meme to this point, sometimes I can't even take him seriously.

@josephhawkins7974

2 жыл бұрын

@@fernandotanigushi8310 he does meme a lot, to be fair

@adamfiliatreault3393

2 жыл бұрын

His "I'm all about resource denial" is very telling of his playstyle in a casual group.

@damo9961

2 жыл бұрын

That's so skilltest. The guy that played Rhystic Study paid 3 and is down a card. You should all pay 1 at least 3 times

@tonkajammin

Жыл бұрын

Crim is the biggest hypocrite on this show,dudes whack

I feel like Richard's justifications for "Why path is better than swords" is actually more, "Why path is not that bad a card". I feel he's gone too far down the "worst case" scenario, since his argument was "What if you need to remove your own creature?". I've been playing commander for a decade. I can count the number of times I've willingly wanted to path my own creature on one hand.

@camael4209

2 жыл бұрын

I do it regularly in my feather the Redeemed deck, if you have young pyromancer it's basically 4 mana ramp 4 lands in 1 turncycle

@triplebog

2 жыл бұрын

I think the fact that even if you use it on an opponent it enabled all your white ramp is a mega underrated aspect of the card. Not saying it's better than swords, but it's a major upside. Even with cards like Winds of Abandon or Settle the Wreckage. Like I got all these ramp cards which are trash as soon as I'm at parity with my opponents

@josephhawkins7974

2 жыл бұрын

Path is interesting as a removal, and in Commander it does seem to be worth the trade more often than not. There's a very small chance you don't get the opponent a land if they went too hard on non basics, and also the single ramp is less likely to matter a ton in the late game than them having their bomb. I'd say both path and swords could be valued roughly equally, and I'd likely have both in most of my decks with white in them.

@jhvidst2

2 жыл бұрын

The answer really is... play both.

@jeremyphillips3087

2 жыл бұрын

Hoe many mono white token decks do you play?

I'm starting to understand Richard's whole commander philosophy. It really is all about getting other people to do stuff so you don't have to. The Imprisoned in the Moon conversation highlights it perfectly. Crim asked him what he would do if there was a hard-to-deal-with commander on the battlefield, and his response was essentially "Let it do whatever it wants as long as it isn't coming after me, and if they do come after me, deal with it at instant speed." He runs so little removal because he expects everyone else to remove problems. When everyone is alive, I can definitely see that being a sound political strategy, but that falls apart when he's the one being targeted and suddenly everyone else isn't going to save them with their removal

@swiftdragonrider

2 жыл бұрын

He just doesn't run good cards. Edit: It is also explaining to me what I don't like about commander. Just dont play interaction because they are card negative.

@pspmovieman

2 жыл бұрын

@@swiftdragonrider wait ✋ did you just say don't play interaction bc it's negative?!?!?!?! Yea ok....sure let's take turns punching each other until someone says ow

@swiftdragonrider

2 жыл бұрын

@@pspmovieman it is a good strat if everyone else play to much.

@cameronmes4046

2 жыл бұрын

I thought so too until he said he'd prefer generous gift over anguished unmaking

@surfinggarchomp2820

2 жыл бұрын

@@pspmovieman CARD negative. In commander, since u have 3 opponents, single target removal is in a way a 1-for-3

There's a few cards that change how strong they are depending the level of decks. In high power decks despark isn't very good because so much stuff played is cheap and fast. But in a casual table Despark becomes better and better since more expensive cmc cards are played for the fun and flashy effects

@benmetler872

2 жыл бұрын

Epic Downfall falls into that category, too!

@SevenMetalCrosses

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like something similar could he said for Abrupt Decay, in higher power tables not being able to hit 3 cmc or above doesn't always matter and having uncounterable is very relevant if there's a blue player sitting at the table.

Sure the swords take was spicy, but I love how they all gave Mythos of Nethroi an A and proceeded to admit that they never play it and the suite of Abzan removal virtually pushes it out from even Abzan decks lol. I’ve played Abzan and I couldn’t even justify it to myself, because leaving up exactly Abzan can be tough.

@russellcammarata9819

2 жыл бұрын

I think it kind of boils down to "this is such a good card that it's an A, but if you're in Abzan you have so much S tier removal there's no reason to run an A"

The Path/Swords argument by Richard is truly a hot take

@Gabahulk

2 жыл бұрын

It changed my mind haha

@poofypeanut0221

2 жыл бұрын

He’s not wrong tho

@hrmladybird105

2 жыл бұрын

It’s kind of fitting that he got wrecked by swords last week on commander clash, and kept lamenting that he would have been in much better shape in he was hit by path instead.

@fernandotanigushi8310

2 жыл бұрын

But it did convinced me. In casual Edh where people enjoy chuncky boys and equip them to make them more chunky the lifegain will be more significant than the land. The way I see it is, path will give a turn to your opponent where swords will give a MINIMUM a turn.

@peewee130946

2 жыл бұрын

@@poofypeanut0221 he is wrong in literally every case swords is just better if you have to path your own creature to ramp you’ve already lost

I think Kenrith's Transformation deserves a discussion. That card is nutty.

@fernandotanigushi8310

2 жыл бұрын

Giving commander players the oko tretment will always sit at S tier for me

Richard coming in the first 2 minutes and giving Crim an aneurysm with his take lol

My experience with Despark is very positive. To answer Richard's question about Despark vs. Abrupt Decay: most casual threats that deserve immediate response, i.e., those for which you need instant speed, are 4CMC or more. That's exactly why Disdainful Stroke is underrated in casual commander. Also, by default, Despark and Disdainful Stroke are mana positive over the player whose permanent you're exiling, which always feels good.

@TenshiArix

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like counterspells are a different story since a lot of things you want to counter can be impactful and less than 4 mana (e.g. Yawgmoths will, Doomsday, Thassa's oracle) which makes disdainful stroke worse when compared to something like arcane denial/counterspell/swansong I personally would never play disdainful stroke just because counterspells have actual good alternatives for 2 or less mana (e.g. Force of will, force of negation, fierce guardianship, Foil, Remand, Counterspell, swansong)

@zaclock-4228

2 жыл бұрын

@@TenshiArix I did specify "casual". I don't consider combo wins like Thoracle, Doomsday or Yawgmoth's Will as casual. Nor counterspell options like FoW, FoN and Fierce Guardianship. What I had in mind was cards like Mirari's Wake, Mana Geyser, Exsanguinate, Consecrated Sphinx, Seedborn Muse, Smothering Tithe, primordials, hasty dragons, etc., which must me stopped immediately before they kill you or start giving a massive advantage to their controller. I do agree that Stroke/Despark are not good options for decks meant to compete against more competitive threats. It depends on the power level of the playgroup. Still, I did build a few blue artisan decks out of bulk over the years (Daxos, Edric), and the cheap counterspells like Stroke, Essence Scatter and Remove Soul were very satisfying as creature removal (denial?) against higher-level decks. The efficiency of counterspells as removal mostly depends on gameplay experience, threat assessment and the deck's ability to leave mana up when you pass the turn.

@rosspenney5158

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Also, I feel like permanents are typically higher mv than noncreature spells on average in EDH, and timing is huge because it's an answer after something resolves- you can't win a counter war with a Disdainful Stroke, but a Despark is rarely stranded in your hand since there's always something to hit with it.

3 spot removal spells?! Y'all are crazy. Too many games in my play group are taken over by 1 threat sticking. I think spot removal spells are the most important part of deck building so I run 8-10 usually. I'm probably an outlier though.

Richard, who hurt you so much to stop you from playing swords to plowshares..

@WBWhiting

2 жыл бұрын

It was Crim, and it was Richard's Lu Xun, Scholar General that he cast t1 with Jeweled Lotus. (S11E15)

@jetcell4517

2 жыл бұрын

Richard doesn’t believe in removal/interaction in general. Edit: didn’t mean this negatively, but it probably came across that way haha

@freehoppernz9058

2 жыл бұрын

Richard wins the most out of everyone because he puts more cards in his deck that further his own game plan and the few interactive spells he runs are versatile enough to get him out of most situations.

3:14 Swords to Plowshares 4:04 Path to Exile 20:01 Beast Within 26:22 Generous Gift 27:57 Chaos Warp 34:10 Assassin's Trophy 38:30 Anguished Unmaking 42:21 Despark 46:35 Utter End 49:28 Terminate 51:37 Bedevil 55:07 Reality Shift 58:00 Pongify/Rapid Hybridization 1:02:20 Deadly Rollick 1:08:55 Snuff Out 1:13:44 Hagra Mauling 1:19:23 Cribswap 1:22:25 Imprisoned in the Moon 1:28:00 Putrefy, Mortify 1:28:35 Abrupt Decay 1:29:47 Mythos of Nethroi 1:33:41 Top 3 Removal from the crew

@-homerow-

Жыл бұрын

My Top 3 1. Beast Within/Generous Gift 2. Anguished Unmaking 3. Swords to Plowshares

Given the last commander clash, Richards take on swords is delicious

Tomer's Imprisoned in the Moon argument with Moonfolk Tribal is why I barely even questioned their choice to fire him this season. (Looking forward to having you back after a hopefully very enjoyable break next season, Tomer)

@teddy7799wastaken

2 жыл бұрын

what they actually fired him?

@parasocialanxiety4994

2 жыл бұрын

@@teddy7799wastaken he's taking a season off it seems

I think what’s cool about commander is that these different opinions lead to everyone playing differently, leading to a different game every time

@adamfiliatreault3393

2 жыл бұрын

I really do love Commander Clash because most of the crew comes with a different deck every week. Yeah Crim is always on dimir/grixis draw go control no matter what the theme is, but all the other decks are always so diverse that it's so incredible to watch

Richards stance on STP is indicative of his playgroup more than anything else. He plays little to no removal because other players play enough to let him play more win cons/powerful cards which probably correlates to his win rate. Essentially the other players spend all their resources preventing people from winning, and then Richard cleans up. This play pattern is super consistent. Look at eps where the other 3 didn't play removal - budget weeks in particular - and the board just goes into full stall and we get a 4 hour game. TLDR Richard doesn't play removal because everyone else does.

@seanedgar164

8 ай бұрын

They cast so many board wipes it's insane

The Swords conversation is one of the ones that brought me around to the idea that Richard is in fact, a moron. LUL

Before the Tuck Rule change, I Chaos Warped my friend’s Cromat only to have him reveal that same Cromat off the top. That being said, I LOVE Chaos Warp still lol

@supranova7594

2 жыл бұрын

Lol yeah I had the same happen to my friend playing my krenko deck 🙃

@ms.sysbit5511

2 жыл бұрын

I Warped a Blightsteel Colossus on an empty board as Greaves were equipped. He shuffled, I cut the deck, and he flipped the dang Colossus. I’ll let you guess who he attacked first.

@fernandotanigushi8310

2 жыл бұрын

I do think revealing the card you wanted to remove, just makes it better

@mistertadakichi

2 жыл бұрын

@@fernandotanigushi8310 pretty sure we laughed all day after it happened

@swiftdragonrider

2 жыл бұрын

@@XCodes In a deck that has 35% permeants you are claim a 1/3 of them are worse then a 3/3? This is a great argument as to why it sucks as both lands and permeants are good hits for the person you are targeting.

I love how this podcast devolved from hard stances to bargaining for a better grade.

(This Path/Sword Argument) Everyone else: The sky is blue. Richard: Is it really though? 🤔 Yeah that Path/Swords argument went on for too long. Richard is either trolling or playing in some casual meta where combat damage is the only way to win (no infinites allowed).

@LucasNIN255

2 жыл бұрын

I play only in casual metas, but combat damage rarely is the way that games ends. His argument sound like he just wants to be edgy. Giving a land to help your oponnent cast a wipe seens way worse than giving 2-6 life.

@Felhate

2 жыл бұрын

@@LucasNIN255 agreed. Sometimes with bad luck, a person can get mana screwed for 2-3 turns essentially making them a non threat for a while if not the rest of the game. Giving them a land can get them back on the ball. Maybe if i have Op Agent or Aven Mindscensor i will use Path. But seriously Richard was being annoying with that take.

Imprisoned in the Moon has another place besides what Tomer listed - it's one of the best removal choices in Zur. Now, I'll concede that most Zur decks are probably winning if they're attacking, but in a control Zur build, having a tutorable solution that semi-permanently deals with opposing commanders is a big deal, as you always have it available as a choice if you can attack with Zur. You're probably never casting it straight, but having that one-off target in your deck is worth the slot in the 99.

@Kryptnyt

2 жыл бұрын

How do you like Fall from Favor? I think it's quite a bit underplayed in a lot of blue decks and Zur seems fantastic for it.

@kennethmurray9003

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kryptnyt for me it's a bit narrow, as I don't run enough blockers in Zur to keep the monarch, so it would seem to be only good on a voltron player. I'd rather turn thier commander into an indestructible bug.

@NoirJester5320

2 жыл бұрын

My Zur deck is a mill deck, and I’ve got most of the Imprisoned in the Moon type auras in it as good options for removal

@Kryptnyt

2 жыл бұрын

@@kennethmurray9003 You don't run anything that prevents damage to you like Solitary Confinement?

@kennethmurray9003

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kryptnyt no, but that would work. I prefer Phyrexian unlife with solemnity.

First Richard says that Path is better because he doesn't want to give his opponent life, then he says that Generous Gift is better than Anguished Unmaking because it only gives them a 3/3 blocker...

Interesting how the most important thing to Tomer consistently seems to be mana cost of the spell. And I tend to agree.

Personally one of my favourite removal is winds of abandon. I know it costs 1 more than PtE and it's Sorcery, but the fact it can be asymmetrical mass removal makes it really high for me. Speaking of, will you guys ever do mass removal ranking?

@TransformersBoss

2 жыл бұрын

It’s so underplayed! Everybody seems to love Farewell, but Winds is Asymmetrical!

When are we going to a Scoops goldfish plushie in the shop? I would buy one immediately if there was one in the shop. Then Tommer would for sure keep his job.

@patarfuifui

2 жыл бұрын

I legit would buy a Scoops in an instant without any hesitation

Richard's take on deadly rollick makes it sound like he never intends on having his commander out

I’d be curious for the Goldfish crew to have this talk with the Command Zone crew. They differ very heavily on the spot removal vs board wipe argument. Goldfish values board wipes over spot removal and Command Zone is the opposite.

@TinyLegs15243

Жыл бұрын

Command zone is correct, if you ever wonder why the commander clash games are so long its because instead of dealing with the one threat that needs removal they just wipe the entire board instead.

@Hemlocker

Жыл бұрын

​@@TinyLegs15243 Game Knights is way more heavily edited though, i.e. they cut out a lot of game time

@TinyLegs15243

Жыл бұрын

@@Hemlocker you are correct to a degree for sure. I believe spot removal is always a correct to have, at least to some degree, but it’s not the main culprit to game length that I thought it was early on.

Richard was smoking some weird shit about his opinion on Swords to Plowshares

Glad to see that the same brand hardcore agreeing with some of the cast on a card and then violently disagreeing with them on another card is still here in full force

Just wanted y'all to know that I love your content so much, I hit the thumbs up as soon as I start your videos. Also, a few seasons ago Seth wondered if anyone has seen every episode of commander clash. I have. 100%. Keep the great content coming and CLASH ON!!!

I just love how everyone seems actually worried about Richard's health as he goes on with his reasons to not like Swords

First of all, I love you guys, you make the greatest content of MTG in KZread. But one thing that aways make me perplex is the Richard view of edh, he is the opposite of the actual thinking in commander, the world says, play more interaction, Richard says, I only play one or two in my decks... Or how he defends obvious bad cards over consolidated staples, like he preferes bouncing things with capsize over exiling with reality shift

@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147

Жыл бұрын

Interaction is 1 for 1 at a 1v3 table, it's bad. Staples are good, but unless your commander is also good and wins you the game you need other people to take the heat so you can slowly build up your board and win. Bouncing with capsize you can pay for buyback to keep removal, you can say "I can only bounce this" and once another threat is played you can force another player to answer it and Ultimatum them if they do, then you'll bounce a threat. Reality shift removes it, but the get the chance of hitting a nuts creature, and if it's a good noncreature card they'll tilt and go after you.

@seanedgar164

6 ай бұрын

​@@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147the opportunity cost is awful though. For 6 mana I'd expect a board wipe. Bouncing one permanent for your whole turn is awful and if they replay it you've not permanently answered anything. 2 other players are progressing their boards all the while.

I have crib swap in my horde of notions deck and although recasting it from your graveyard for WUBRG is kind of a lot, it is such a pain to deal with for opponents. The constant threat of exiling a creature is insane.

Best feeling is on MTGO, when chaos warp resolves, and you don't see anything happen, because you hit the card you shuffled away off the top.

I use path to exile in my feather the Redeemed deck, together with young pyromancer it's insane. It can ramp you 4 lands each rotation

@ryanmanning2319

2 жыл бұрын

Fellow feather player. I too have experienced this glorious line of play. I love it. I don't draw Young Peezy enough when I play with that deck. Oblation works pretty fantastically there too.

@AhranMaoDante

2 жыл бұрын

People targeted me so much for ramping in Feather I took it apart. Now Feather is part of a Naya control deck that runs minimal ramp and somehow doesn't get targeted.

@camael4209

2 жыл бұрын

@@AhranMaoDante why would they target you for that? Although yea targeting the one that's ramping like crazy might be the good choice xD

@satansamael666

2 жыл бұрын

Or use Chaos Warp for even more dumb nonsense. In Mardu and Grixis, it's part of some really degenerate doomsday loops.

These rankings really detail their individual play styles pretty well. Richard "not playing" removal is so typical, especially in a pod with Crim and Tomer who like to load up (relatable) on targeted answers.

@seanedgar164

6 ай бұрын

And Seth who calls for a board wipe as soon as there are 4 creatures on board. None is too far gone tho

Thank you for the podcast, this is my favorite podcast now and I love hearing everyone’s thoughts and the banter. I changed my opinion on Despark now (taking it out of decks). You all have great chemistry together

Now I have something to get me through work today!

Love this list! Great to see how each of you rate each card and how it meshes with your play styles

I love that everyone has their own style and, therefore, their own preferences for certain cards. It really gives a broad and thorough analysis and discussion for the pros and cons as it relates to those styles

At this point, Richard is just being a contrarian, right?

@franbecares420

2 жыл бұрын

His mindset translate to more wins, he is onto something

@endermeap6488

2 жыл бұрын

Tomer is generally a bigger contrarian imo. Richard has a legitimate, different viewpoint

Love this ranking series! Great interactions.

Friendly reminder that Resculpt exists! If a deck isn’t using Reality Shift as a combo piece, I think Resculpt is arguably better than all the blue spot removal discussed in the video. Like Richard, I’m pretty averse to spending card slots on narrow spot removal (more than I should be, admittedly), and exiling artifacts was very important in my first Commander play group. Two mana is a lot more than one, though, so if a meta doesn’t have a lot of artifact combo decks or equipment decks, I could see Rapid Hybrization and Pongify playing better.

I really appreciate all the deck lists on mtggoldfish

One budget removal spell I play in ALL of my budget black decks is Price of Fame. In a format that is as legendary focused as commander, Price of Fame being a two mana one for one that fills your graveyard (as it surveils 2) is really underrated for a 30 cent card. Even with its high mana cost sometimes, PoF is my go to creature removal in mono black or two colour black decks. It works especially well with commanders that abuse high CmC as well, like Yuriko. It’s not better than swords, definitely worse than beast within and most of the other “hit every permanent” removal spells, but it’s one of my favourite hidden gem removal spells.

Chaos Warp is good for reclaiming non-commander permanents stolen by the opponent

@Mwarrior1991

2 жыл бұрын

chaos warp is always a two for one. youre going down a card and your opponents end up recource neutral. I'm pretty sure it's actively bad.

@falconlord7811

Жыл бұрын

@@Mwarrior1991 warp isn't great but it's sadly one of reds best permanent interaction spells. Red really struggles in edh with valid interaction so we're stuck using it until something better gets printed.

No love for one of my favorite removal spell? Oblation. It can effectively remove an indestructible non-land permanent, although it has the downside of allowing the controller to draw two cards. Of course, if you need card draw, you can also cast it on your own card/ token.

A morning upload? Awesome!

Let me get this straight... Utter end is bad because 4 mana... Terminate is bad because only hits creatures... HURL THROUGH HELL IS 4 MANA AND ONLY HITS CREATURES... "Hurl through hell is a good card" What the actual hell?

@nuclearkumquat

2 жыл бұрын

Terminate is Destory not exile. Also, Hurl can result in stealing said creautre not just exiilng it. Utter end's rating is probably more due to the abundance of removal in those colors. Hurl is at most a b-c though beacuse the cost isn't worth it in things other than Prosper imo.

@TheShitassdick

2 жыл бұрын

@@nuclearkumquat I'm not saying it's costed incorrectly or anything. I'm just identifying the logical inconsistency.

What about Darksteel mutation, Ravenform and such ? I feel like those type of removal are often overlooked and I can tell you that in my mono-white list I run all four of the best removal in the game (in my own little opinion, for what it's worth..) which are Sword to Plowshare, Path to Exile, Generous Gift, and last but not least : Darksteel Mutation ! It's so great to shut down someone's Commander if they don't have any way to deal with it (which happens way more than you'd think) Love the podcast and the ranking vids, keep up the great content flowing !

One time my friend chaos warped my living plane in response to my elesh norn so i shuffled up and let her cut and i topped living plane. 1/72 chance. Best memory from commander ever.

Y'all straight tripping if you think Pongify is monoblue only, it goes in basically every color combination without white. What black removal is better than Pongify or Reality Shift? If I'm playing Dimir, my removal starts with Pongify, Reality Shift and Rapid Hybridization, Counterspell, Negate, like the only pieces of black single target removal I play is Feed the Swarm and Deadly Rollick.

@mountainwalk

2 жыл бұрын

Same. One mana instant speed kill anything and they get a monkey that is mostly irrelevant. If you're dying to a lone 3/3 then something went really wrong somewhere.

Loving the podcasts guys 👍

Imprisoned in the moon got rid of so many cabal coffers, urborgs and other value lands that i feel its worth the slot in blue decks

For most my decks one drop removal is definitely key; lots of threats show up and i find having at least 2 target kill spells and 2 bounce spells help a lot. I usually run mono blue, mono black, mono red, or izzet; pongify, defile, snap, snapback, vendetta, chain lightning, lightning bolt, etc are some of my top picks.

Imprisoned in the moon really shines in my Orvar deck! Regarding Crib Swap, I recently had my Volo, Guide to Monsters deck hosed by it. 🤣

Everyone sleeping on Resculpt: exile removal, hits both creatures and artifacts, in BLUE! yeah the 4/4 token it gives is a bit bigger than other spells that have this down side, but the efficiency and flexibility is well worth it. Know what now that I think about it, im dropping Terminate in my Grixis deck for Resculpt. It's in my eye a strictly better Bedevil, and if there's a Planeswalker that needs to die chances are the creatures at the table will punch it to death. It also gets around pro-red/pro-black as a bonus!

I'm with Tomer on part about Chaos Warp and Gamble: Luck is not on my side with such effects. I've used Fervent Mastery, picked 3 cards and discarded 3 at random... those exact cards I've tutored for...

enjoyed the show and the perspectives, query: is the tier list available to download?

Opinion on the Ratings (Especially despark) While watching (and enjoying) this, I keep one thing in mind: The default number of spot removal they play is pretty low. If you are sacrificing only 2-4 slots to spot removal, I can easily see why (for example) despark is an D. you have generous gift, anguish unmaking, swords to plowshare, which are better. So, you do not consider despark to put in your deck -> bad rating. I try to play around 10 spot removal effects (and I think more player should do this :D ongoing discussion in my play group) and I think despark is great! I try to put it in every deck with black and white (same for 3 color decks). I literally destroyed an Purphoros-Player on Turn 2 with it, because he was heavily ramping into his commander and was not able to compensate the damage for 3 turns. I agree, this will not happen every game. Plus: if your deck allows you to play some narrow, but highly efficient, cards (like despark), because you have some, for example, draw/discard synergy, you should consider playing it.

Love to hear your take on Vindicate!

Ahh my favorite Commander podcast 👌

I feel as if Richard doesn’t value spot removal cause the rest of the commander clash crew play enough that he never has to answer the threats. I would love to see richard’s take on stuff like soul shatter, kenrith’s transformation, or Kogla the titan ape. Personally I’ve been able to find a lot of removal that does other stuff, so I’m interacting with others board, while not having card disadvantage.

Tomer, I feel you about Chaos Warp. I'm the guy who targets a Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger during the player's upkeep and flip Craterhoof Behemot then die.

I've had Despark sat in my hand a few times where the thing that's beating me is 3 cmc or less. But I've also had Abrupt Decay sitting in my hand useless too.

What do you think about single target removal like Custody Battle or Illicit Auction that more so punishes the player to keep their Commander?

I agree with crim about the green removal thing. in mono green i throw in a beast within and maybe a rec sage and call it a day. woodfall primus or terastadon if I'm feeling saucy.

Come on! Not even mentioning Vindicate! I know it's 3 cmc and sorcery speed, but it is any permanent! And it is quite good in a stax/tap out control shell!

How are the two most colour pie breaking cards (Pongify/Reality Shift) ranked so low? They're not only colour pie breaking, but efficient as well lmao. One mana destroy with little downside is playable in most colour combinations! For once in my life I agree with Tomer bahaha

I think twice I've cast Chaos Warp and the same damn permanent I targeted gets put into play by Chaos Warp's effect. It's not quite in "I'm never playing this crap again" but it is in "Only if I've got Sunforger" and sometimes "Chaos deck with Radiate yes please" I think the real reason why Tomer hates it, though, is because all of his decks are spellslinger decks that are bad vs Chaos Warp lol

I have to say you guys missed sonthing on imprissoned in the moon That you could copy the imprissend card with vesuva and thespian stage and you culd replace imprison in the moom with song of the dryads. love that interaction in all lands decks

I run lightning bolt s i watch people ad nausea go to 3 and i just the them also 3 damage gets bunches of dorks and commander AND my shop still allows hullbreacher so bolting breacher feels so good

The Bedevil art is great

When you think about it, Oko could have been on this list. It's like a wayyyyyyyyyy better Imprisoned in the Moon.

@Miderre

2 жыл бұрын

It's way easier to get your commander back to the command zone when it's been turned into an elk than when it's been turned into a land. Oko is a temporary measure, Imprisoned in the Moon lasts longer, or even sometimes the whole game against red, black, or blue decks.

Kind of wish that we could have seen what you guys thought about cards like Recoil, Boomerang, Wipe Away, Unsubstantiate, Vanishing Verse and Vindicate.

I think Richard is massively over-valueing the life that someone would gain from swords. Most of time it is going to be totally irrelevant. Path, on the other hand, gives an opponent an additional mana for all remaining turns, so early game helps them A LOT more than a small amount of life. Although I do agree the self ramp is good too! I'd play both, anyhow.

A great question 🙋‍♂️for everyone, would you rather use narrow instant removal or slow more target removal ?

@jozefkeresturi2139

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah its a nice debate.

@ms.sysbit5511

2 жыл бұрын

Why would you not run both? I usually run 4 wipes minimum and about 7 spot removal. There is room for versatile and maximally efficient removal.

This is the source material behind the running channel meme that swords is bad

Deathsprout and Council's Judgment are probably some of my favorites not listed here. Others not mentioned are Grasp of Fate, Divine Gambit (for the lulz). Excavation Technique

Lit interaction; start with chancellor of the forge for 1 goblin, smash one player for chip of 1 and path that end of combat for boros early ramp that feels better than even mana crypt.

I will defend permanent based removal (O Ring, Song of the Dryads, etc) on an enchantress based deck. It removes things and draws cards, and these enchantments can be protected with hexproof or indestructible.

Path to exile is a great addition to any Mavinda Deck. Use it as a removal first and later as a ramp from your graveyard!

What about damn? It's sorcery speed unfortunately but it can be targeted removal or a boardwipe so it can fill 2 slots in a deck and gives your move flexibility

crib swap is good in edgar markov as you get yourself a vampire when you cast it, and in morophon, it costs 2 generic mana

Okay someone explain to me how abrupt decay is a d because it doesn't kill the majority of things and d spark is a d because it doesn't kill the majority of things.

People on this cast complaining about the difference of one more mana for a given effect being bad, and have the gall to say hagra mauling is good. I would rather play murder a million times than hagra mauling.

Despark rocks, one of the best budget removals.

Yes imprisoned in the moon and song of the dryads can be removed... BUT they can both shut down commanders more permanently than other spells and are in colors that usually don't get removal a)that effective or b)that flexible I'm a big fan of both in their respective mono-colors (and UG)

32:55 I'm with seth here. Whenever I play Chaos Warp the opponent always gets a land or a signet and that's fine with me

I have never seen Richard path his own creatures... And also, "you don't want to curve out, leaving one mana and do a tempo play"... that's exactly what you should do in Commander

I will never forget the time I was draining people out of the game at thr end of a long game with Blind Obedience, and my opponent Chaos Warped it. Immediately flipped back into the Blind Obedience and proceeded to win.

No shot any 4+ mana removal is a or s tier. And no 3+ could be s.

Cyclonic rift is a S for sure! If not top 3. It’s single removed plus a board wipe. Damn is another good one. Murderis rider is also another favorite of mine. Instant removal and a body with life gain.

I remember when the tuck rule was around chaos warp was way better because you could tuck your opponents commander. However I tucked a players nicol bolas and they got it back one game so I agree with Tomer

I only usually run 2-4 spot meroval in my deck. 1-2 for specific threats and the rest are just spot meroval fillers that fit the theme.

I think I play path in one deck, and that's in Feather where I use it as a ramp engine with token generators like mentor or young pyromancer.

Maybe it's my playgroup, but there's usually at least one person running a greedy mana base who doesn't have basics on the field. So, I feel like Hagra Mauling is more often a 3 mana spell.

Richard comparing the MDFC tier list to the spot removal tier list is not actually comparable, firstly they are inconsistent with what they rate things compared to what they say the ratings mean and secondly they are not being measured on the same metric.

Swords to Plowshares. Nr.1 Path to Exile. Nr.2