Time to reset the “Episodes since Swords to Plowshares discourse” counter.

@andyspendlove1019

10 ай бұрын

We only went one episode without it because Richard wasn’t on the last episode 😂

@atle853

10 ай бұрын

Swords answers Tomer's wins, but not Richard's. Tomer sees the value in it because it is a hole in many of his strategies. Richard does not see the value because it is not a hole in many of his strategies. Richard should play it, Tomer should not.

@aramfingal

10 ай бұрын

I hope it stays at zero! 😅

@primeshifter1699

10 ай бұрын

And submerge

@nCedric1

10 ай бұрын

Good reasoning!@@atle853

Love this format. I really prefer this to the tier list stuff, at least with discussing more established cards. The tiebreakers are amazing as you guys form into makeshift 2v2s and it gets hilariously intense as chatgpt reads off her relatively random decision. In general, I think some of your best content comes when you're arguing; so attaching an actual win/lose to the argument works well. Really brings out the salt.

@Princeofseance

10 ай бұрын

I would rather it be the editor as the tiebreaker

@Spirited_skiing

10 ай бұрын

I want to see a underplayed card/shark tank bracket now

@singularleaf3895

10 ай бұрын

​@danielparrott56 Tomer edits a lot of these so it doesn't exactly work.

@Sinistra359

10 ай бұрын

Same I love the arguments and banter. There's so many different archetypes and ways to play mtg that it's always interesting to see people's opinions on cards. Definitely has made me rethink the cards I play and try out cards that I thought was "bad".

@LedPESRule

10 ай бұрын

​@@Princeofseancesame, or Phil jumping in. I hated the ChatGPT tiebreaker, makes everything that came before feel irrelevant since it's just a stupid "AI" making a random decision.

Love how you guys always find new formats to keep the convo unique

This should be the format of your current tier lists. You don't have to do 32 cards each time, something like 16 or 8 going into a randomly seeded bracket with Chat GPT as the tie-breaker would be excellent viewing. Never before have you guys had as animated or heated debate - this was excellent!

@LedPESRule

10 ай бұрын

Agreed except for the ChatGPT tiebreaker. It's annoying and makes the end result random and unsatisfying. Hopefully next time they can get Phil to jump in or something.

Watching Seth insist that Obscuring Haze is better than Force of Will is peak comedy

@adammorin2955

10 ай бұрын

I refuse to believe that force of will is a good card.

@trehenry413

10 ай бұрын

​@adammorin2955 you don't have to. Doesn't mean the card isn't strong though

@adammorin2955

10 ай бұрын

@@trehenry413 it’s overrated

@leoleo1035

10 ай бұрын

And it still is good. One thing does not nulify the other.@@adammorin2955

@joshranger8541

10 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@adammorin2955it can be overrated and still better than obscuring haze

I feel like this is one all time great episodes of this podcast.

So much better than a sinple top10 or tier list. Keep it up!

I actually just stole a one ring with a commandeer a few days ago, it led to me making a comeback and winning the game lol

@colecarmichael5724

10 ай бұрын

That’s the sexiest thing I’ve heard all day

Aint no way subtlety is better than endurance. With subtlety you temporarily counter your opponent's creature which they'll cast next turn and attack you with it for the rest of the game. Counter your opponent's 6-mana/voltron commander? You're their archenemy. Blink it? The whole table is locked from playing the game and will team up on you. Endurance has all the upsides Richard said, ON TOP of being free instant speed out of nowhere full wipe gy interaction. There is no better. Keep in mind, it can also protect YOUR gy from exile hate.

@voidprism_studios666

10 ай бұрын

I mean subtlety stops a dockside win, thassa oracle, eldrazi, praetors, drannith, grand abolisher, etc etc... so I mean

@Spaced92

10 ай бұрын

Subtlety has way more potential impact, Idk I don't like to rate cards on how likely I am to get hate from the person I stopped from winning the game. In casual Subtlety just seems better.

@Sinistra359

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for your OPINION. The algorithm will remember that.

@kennellfrederick4367

10 ай бұрын

yes, but what if the GY is irrelevant? Then the card is useless. Subtlety is always going to hit something. That was the flexibility point being made I believe.

@voidprism_studios666

10 ай бұрын

@@kennellfrederick4367 Naturally I would agree with you however if I'm using Endurance, I'm using it on myself more so as a way to protect my graveyard when I don't have access to stifle effects. Black is a very prominent color so I think there's a likely chance to hit someone. But like you said not as much as a Subtlety does because no one can be playing graveyard decks but someone will always play strong creatures.

Didn't expect gush to be missing! The bracket idea seems like a nice fresh take on the Tier List meta that has been going on for the last years.

This was probably the best most entertaining episode you guys have done so far

The suspense of the chat gpt tiebreakers was amazing 😂

Some of these rounds discussions were hilarious. Props to the contributors for coming into each round with interesting perspectives.

This is literally the best podcast you have done. Please more episodes like this

I appreciate that Crim hates fogs so much, and also is probably the player second only to Phil who would benefit the most from adding them to his deck, considering how often he just ends up with an empty board, having barely any lands, and getting punched every turn for value by Richard's Dowsing Dagger-holder or whatnot.

@tbclabamba8051

10 ай бұрын

Well a fog doesnt save you from getting attacked in multiple turns for value

Mana Crypt gets excluded because it’s too good

@Kryptnyt

10 ай бұрын

commander lotus as well I guess.

@Kryptnyt

10 ай бұрын

and Qasali Ambusher

@Sinistra359

10 ай бұрын

Chatgpt would say otherwise, not versatile enough. Lol

@atle853

10 ай бұрын

Instants & sorceries

@Sinistra359

10 ай бұрын

@atle853 but the elementals? Lol

this was such a fun and funny format for a tier list I was cracking up this whole time

I love how much argument happened over terrible cards. Truly great.

I run my copy of Endurance in Tayam because it's less than 3 cmc and can refill my library to keep the combos going

@T_Peazy

10 ай бұрын

Yes. Taiyam supremacy.

It was so funny tomer losing every single time to chat GPT

@Sinistra359

10 ай бұрын

Tomer vs chatgpt let's go! Lol

@jamiekuryla3940

10 ай бұрын

I do wonder if the wording for commander would make a difference on some of them, but not enough to ask myself.

@scaredycat3146

10 ай бұрын

He won on Force of Despair R1, didn't he?

"I would think Tomer out of all people would have a respect for Commandeer." That is cold as ice, Seth!

More of this format please!

I think Commandeer is more of a 3 for 2 because not only does your opponent not get their thing, but you get it instead. Kind of like a counter, and theft effect bundled together.

That was a ton of fun, great video! I think you could have actually seeded the cards maybe, like listing them by how much they are played on EDHrec and then go 1st vs 16th, 2 vs 15th, etc. This would have mean a lot of sweep on the first round (but these tend to be funny and are not too taxing mentally) and would probably guarantee interesting discourses on pretty much every match-up starting at round 2. Anyway, keep this up, I think this is way more entertaining than the tierlists video!

This has been one of the funniest podcast episodes you guys have done, I hope you'll do this again! With ChatGPT too of course!

This episode is so good! Haha This is way better then the letter grade ranking episodes. 😂

I love listening to you guys. Even though I don't even really play the game I love this podcast so much. Richard is so funny

1:17:45 My favorite tomar arguments are when he repeats back Richards argument but with the other card. It's so funny how it works almost every time.

I absolutely love this format, loved the battles.

I live for this episode. ChatGPT showing up as the tie-breaker brought more chaos to the yard than a poorly-timed Warp World.

A cheeky corner case for Reverent Mantra is it makes auras and equipment fall off creatures too, so it could hose a few specific strategies pretty hard

I loved the bracket format. Would love to see more!

I really liked this format! Please do it more often!

I really like that you keep trying new formats!

good video.. will say a bit telegraphed on the final.. force and guardianship being in two separate halves of the bracket..

great podcast...some WILD takes haha

This was so entertaining, please do this format again!

Commandeer is not a "3 for 1". It is a "3 for 2". (Or rather, 1-for-3 and 2-for-3, since the "for" should describe the cost) If it just countered the spell, it would be a 1or-3, but since you get the spell, that's one more card of value for you. Which actually compares to Force of Will quite nicely. And really, any spell worth commandeering likely counts for more than 1 card of value. Like, stealing the one ring is technically a 2-for-3 if you free commandeer it, but it quickly pays for itself in terms of cards. Its main problem is it's very hard to actually have those two blue cards in anything but mono blue. But if you have them, you'll likely find a use for this.

I love the 10 minutes of arguing in the first rounds just for two cards that have absolutely no chance of moving on again. (Sunscour vs snag)

Would be interesting to hear what chatgpt has to say for each matchup, regardless of the score lol.

@LedPESRule

10 ай бұрын

Why? It regurgitates the same bs each time and just makes a stupid random decision. I'd much rather have Phil jump in.

@residentgrey

10 ай бұрын

I would like to know what it scans to generate a response.

@residentgrey

10 ай бұрын

​@@LedPESRuleIt is not random. It seems to be reading some popular sites. I would like to know if MTG mechanics are already somehow installed.

@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914

6 ай бұрын

yes but I'd like to see a 32 card with ZERO mana (free? no?) cuz i don't understand your video I though i would see 32 enchants or sorcery spells with ZERO mana cost... this is what i am looking for a good list of ZERO mana cost spells ! not creature spoells with MANA costs , how can these be considered FREE ???? what does FREE mean in MTG?

1st 2 cards and I'm like oh this'll be easy. No contest. Immediately needed a tie breaker lol

I personally love Summoner's Pact in Casual just as an extra copy of some Haymakers in the deck. I played it in my Katilda, Dawnhart Prime deck as a tutor for Kyler, Champion of Lambholt, or other big anthem effects.

There is something incredibly ironic about Tomer and Crim advocating for a creature that sees almost no play over a card that is "good in cedh." Like, really? Why do you think it might see play in cedh?

@zeroisnine

10 ай бұрын

Pact is very underrated

Love the march madness bracket style format, should do more!

I'm dying at Seth smugly agreeing with ChatGPT on the "Snag" call XD

I'm glad we ended up with the finals match-up that we did. These were the 2 that popped into mind when I saw the title of this video.

You guys should use polls for these episodes and reveal the poll after you talk about them. Maybe it won’t work for the later parts in the bracket, but it could be a cool tie breaker or just thing to see

this was awesome! yall have to do this again!

Great format, I would love to see more 😂

Phew this was a very spicy 🌶️ episode. Loved every second of it!

Submerge is kinda OP. I love it. It basically reads: “unsummon a creature, they can’t play it again this turn, they skip their next draw”.

@residentgrey

10 ай бұрын

It blocks their deck too. That is getting undervalued. Putting it at the bottom is also good but they will still have access to the rest of the deck.

I would love this format for yall doing some of your favorite arts

I use Downhill Charge in Ojer Axonil Storm, once you start to cantrip or play some cheap ping spells with Burgi, or Urabrask, or Storm-Kiln out, you'll have a tapped mountain to sac and just add this onto the end of the stack, it'll resolve 1st making making your 7-8 copies of grapeshot do 10 damage each pretty easily. Snapback is obviously better at doing controlly blue things than downhill charge, but red is all about being aggressive and speeding up games

1:25:55 I think this one is closer than they let on. When I build decks, I'm more likely to cut Force from a blue deck than Pact from a green deck. This is one of those where other formats can taint judgment.

Not that it'd change the grading, but any land with Island subtype can be discarded to Foil (and Forest subtype for Snag). It isn't just the basic lands Island or Forest.

This is the greatest, please do more of these brackets!!

Tier lists: 🥱😴 Brackets: 👌

This episode was a blast!!!

Really fun episode, glad to see more evergreen type content too

I love this format of doing a bracket for a category of cards. I think I disagree with some of the picks, obviously, but I realized something. There’s not a single pitch card in casual commander that I would play over the 1-2 mana versions of the effect. Any of foil, force of negation, force of will, I would play counterspell over those in a casual deck. Fury is worse than pyroclasm or obliterating bolt, or lightning bolt for that matter. There’s exceptions for niche decks, like blue pitch cards in decks that regularly draw dozens of cards, or snag in my Shigeki deck, but otherwise every pitch card is bad to me.

Brilliant format

I'd be interested in seeing a version of this type of tier list for tutors

As a Nezahal main, commandeer is so cracked. Any counter spell that lets you discard a card, or return islands as cost doesn’t matter when you’re always at 10+ cards in hand haha. Very specific but these decks do exit. Yesterday I was at 39 in hand, tapped out and had more ways to interact than people could really comprehend.

somehow I knew y'all would miss Massacre, which can situationally outshine all these cards and has a really high floor. You can go back to any commander clash episode and quickly find a spot where a 0 mana drown in sorrow would be a massive blowout. It can be a onesided boardwipe, it's better against fast starts, it's one of the most slept-on EDH power cards.

The part not mentioned on Deflecting Swat is the ability to steal positive effects. What is better than outright countering say Eldrazzi Conscription? Redirecting it to your creature. What it lacks in versaility it makes up for with potential massive upside.

A little late but I'm with everyone else, fantastic format and episode overall, loved all of it

it would be interesting to see this done again but excluding counter spells as the scenarios being proposed in the cards defense always fall to "but i can just counter it"

Great format, would love to see more card tournaments.

@samuelswinamer4939

9 ай бұрын

The AI adding contention to the group is entertaining. Could pit commanders against eachother, or Timmy cards in different colours.

1:35:10 It's *gotta* be Fierce here. They have the same free-spell restriction. And since they're free, there's less of a timing concern (ie, other counterspells force you to leave mana up, making removal more attractive because you can fire off the removal a turn later).

And here I thought I was the only person who knew about Snag. :P It's a neat little gem from Magic's rocky past.

Richard: Shining Shoal has potential, you can pitch a four-drop to pick off one of your opponent's creatures. Also Richard: Swords to Plowshares is a bad card that I cut from all of my white deck. I love your brews, Richard, but holy moly do some of these takes not compute in my brain.

Tomer’s logic for Foil also applies to Commandeer, but Commandeer at least gets you a card back

Force of Vigor gets rid of some seriously scary commanders, like Go-Shintai and the enchantment it makes on ETB, or Breya, Etherium Shaper and the artifact it makes on ETB. In a lot of cases I'm more likely to have a green card in hand than a commander on the battlefield, turn 1 blow up mana crypt and sol ring while still having turn 1 mana available for a sol ring seems good

This was a great format! Everyone saying "oh this is an easy matchup" before vehemently disagreeing is hilarious.

The lack of Gush and Git Probe in this list...

My thinking on foil is that it maybe could be good in a dimir reanimator strategy. Discard vs exile is a pretty big difference in that case.

Richards take of force of despair was shocking 😮

Way better than the 100th tier list video. But you should have told ChatGPT you meant Commander initially

Amazing episode. However I just remembered, why didn't they mention the actual free spells (0 mana and no other costs) like mana crypt and jeweled lotus?

Are we not gonna talk about the downhill charge, target an opponent's creature? Its worse hatred, but the memes

Pre viewing, force of will or fierce guardianship will probably take it. I'm hoping commandeer or deflecting swat take it Dark horse of snuff out, darker horse invigorate.

You can summoners pact for subtlety, it’s gotta be better! 😂

@amithemuffinman

10 ай бұрын

Except it can't.....

I know Convoke effects technically aren't free, but they FEEL free. Lol. Wand of the Worldsoul for example I think should probably be a must have mana rock in any mono white or deck that has ANY white for that matter. If you want direct dmg out of white that is more effective than Shining Shoal, try out Mirror Strike, Honourable Passage, and so on. Those will deal direct dmg to the source instead of you. Also, Reverse Damage while it doesn't deal dmg, it ABSORBS any one source of damage from an opponent so it could suck up a 50 dmg ping from some bullcrap Niv Mizzet deck and then gives it to you as 50 life gain.

Yoo chat GTP is fire, you should try it as a special guest on an episode!

Submerge is so good, I play it in cEDH and even play yavimaya to turn it on in greenless matchups

I thought this was to be of all 0-mana cards, not alternate cast conditions. This is still a curious comparison. I keep seeing these vids also through the eyes of a YuGiOh player and the valuation of effects and costs. I can see easy comparisons for some of these and a couple I would like in my decks.

So potentially a hot take, but I don’t even run Flawless Maneuver anymore thanks to Clever Concealment, which can also be a free spell, especially when you’ve got a board state that you’d want to cast either. There’s so much exile removal and board wipes that I value phasing over indestructible now.

@gregprice4834

10 ай бұрын

I started to come to the same conclusion. Indestructible is not quite what it once was

it's gonna be the free counterspell, I bet. what else would beat that.

Talking about pyrokenesis and said exile a card from exile to play it because red impulse draws got me thinking. What if there was a cycle of "if an opponent has X cards in exile you may put all of their exiled cards (either) into their graveyard (or) onto the bottom of their library in a random order to play this card for free. Could be interesting

Great content, I love the ChatGPT mediation, that sh** is GOLDEN!

This is very entertaining. I love how ChatGPT comes in and pours more salt on the discussion :)

Was the criteria that it had to cost mana but have a free mode? Because if it's strictly not paying mana then jeweled lotus and the legal mox should be here for sure.

I agree pact should've been higher, great for finishing a game in green where you've built your boardstate, but hard to argue with the ability to counter the pact.

The thing deadly rollick has going for it over all the free counter spells is there are so many free counter spells. There's 3 of them in the top 4. This is black's only targeted exile effect.

Force of will is Def the gold standard of counter magic. It hits EVERYTHING, and only costs a card and 1 hp. Though i mostly play cedh so it does make a difference.

@phenarax7759

9 ай бұрын

Force over swat in CEDH especially in the opening hand. You have to have a commander. Even in 4 and 5 colour CEDH decks you have enough blue in counters and card draw like rhystic and mystic to pitch to force in the worst case scenario.

Im surprised no one brought up the fact you can commander a force of dispair 😂😂😂😂lol ❤❤❤

You guys should have included Beseech the mirror here. Or maybe there could be another one for spells that can be free.

"you can play around deadly rollick" sounds like you're a freaking psychic... how the heck am I supposed to play around that and kill your commander?

I liked this format. More please

I think Summoner’s Pact is being overestimated because it puts a green creature in your hand, as opposed to on the battlefield.