Check out the Stop Chasing the lands Tested Playlist - kzread.info/dash/bejne/poWHlZVxd5fUipM.html

After I watched Erik Cortinas video I realized how foolish chasing lands was also. I mean he’s a pro for a reason, and his videos are changing up my reloading no doubt.

Just wanted to take a moment to thank you for this video. I've only been reloading for 2 months and I just recently found a good charge weight for my 7mm RM, 162 gr ELD-X that has produced an SD of 8.3 and ES of 35. Throughout my development, I was always .020" off the lands. Decided to give this video a try, and WOW!! Like your video, I worked in .003" steps, each time pushing the bullet a little deeper into the case since I was starting at .020" off the lands. I went from an unacceptable 1.366 ES MOA to a .601 ES MOA. As a very new reloader, I'm quite pleased with the improvement. Again, thank you for putting this together.

I liked what Eric mentioned about starting with test loads at minimum C.O.A.L. and seating 3/1000's longer in each String (shooting in the same order). This way when you verify your node, all you have to do is seat the remaining loads to a shorter C.O.A.L, as opposed to using a bullet puller to correct the short rounds.

@briangullickson9013

3 жыл бұрын

Now that’s sound advice!

@matthewlepage6848

6 ай бұрын

Also, seating the bullet deeper means higher chamber pressure. So starting short and working up prevents any over-pressure while tuning COAL.

This seems like an excellent process in large part because it is data- and evidence-driven. By "exploring" further parameters which had not initially been in your test population, you are determining empirically whether or not your previously-known best node is merely a local minimum. Well done!

I just totally geeked out on this 2x back to back awesome info I’d love to see this done in different cartridges, powders, and bullets!

I do a very similar analysis to essentially rule out the "bad" nodes then further dive into the areas with good nodes that feed reliably from the magazine... seems to work pretty well. Thanks for posting this thorough straight forward discussion.

I've used this method on 3 different rifles, 3 different calibers, 6 different bullets and powder. As long as you have consistency in your brass, neck tension, bullet BC, and powder... It works! I've been watching your channel, waiting for you to discover this method. You're very detail oriented and a smart dude, can't wait to see what I can learn from you.

Great description on zero length. After I do this I then adjust the zero of my powder charge. Well done.

I really appreciate this video, and would love to see more like them!

I've watched and followed Erick Cortinas example and it works. Did it with a 223 and now fgtting 1/2 MOA groups reliably. I too used Lapua brass but went with 85.5g Berger LRHT bullets. You can also read more about tuning using bullet seating. on page 100 of the Berger Bullet reference book.

Proof's in the puddin'. Can't argue with data driven results. So much better the sweet spot is now mag length.

@Aereaux

3 жыл бұрын

To be accurate: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

Good stuff. I’m going to be working on this. I’ll rewatch and try to get started. Just starting into 6.5 Creedmoor.

It's a good thing to mention that the reason why we shouldn't care about where the lands are in COAL tuning is because bullet seating depth can be used to tune the load volume of your powder and brass. A bullet seated further in the brass = less air and therefore less inconsistency in powder burning. Nosler and Hodgdon both state that loads near or over max volumes (compressed loads) generally yield greater accuracy. It also provides more consistency over temp change as any air inside the brass will change in pressure when temp changes.

About to do a 10 shot test. I’m going to make those cartridges magazine length, instead of 0.02” off the lands, so I don’t have to single feed from now on. Great video.

@ewetho

3 жыл бұрын

Actually doing 4 today.. 2 powders and 2 bullets... At the range watching this... 😎🤠 22-250 and Berger Varmints with IMR 3031 and VIHT 540

Excellent info! I’m anxious to give this a try!

10:40 Thank you for posting your results in COAL. I'm relatively new to reloading for my 6.5 Creedmoor APO Savage 10. I use the same 140 gr ELD-Match bullets you describe in your video. I've been referencing/labeling all of my seating depths based on COAL instead of CBTO. I measured my jam as a COAL of 2.847". Using Eric Cortina's advice, I started seating bullets at 2.827" and down in 0.003" increments. I've found the sweet spot (node) for my IMR 4350 (41.1 gr) at a COAL 2.824". This past weekend I was shooting H4350 (finally found it in stock). For both 40.5 and 41.0 grains, my tightest groups were at a COAL of 2.821". Five shot groups at 0.7 MOA (0.25 MOA if I exclude one flyer in each group)

@jimwhite9483

8 ай бұрын

Can't exclude them flyers! If I sent it, it counts.

Great job, thanks for all your info!

Been doing his workup too... It works

@mrhangfire1

3 жыл бұрын

Same here, I have a new .300 WinMag figured out in one box of 220 Hybrids following his method. I'll tweak it a little more, but I've never dialed in a rifle so fast. I used to buy all kinds of bullets and powders and try everything under the sun. Now I know better.

Liked and Subscribed even though I barely understood anything! JK, i can learn a lot here, and it is great how you are working off some of Erik's work. For some reason, hearing it again, explained slightly differently, is helpful. Thanks for sharing!

Thank you for adding your own data to this. i am not a precision shooter but I believe the reason people have gotten so worked up over his method is that it is simple and easy to understand. I would love to see you test with a load that has not been shooting well. I would also wonder if it could be used with the COAL found in reloading manuals as a starting point. that way someone just starting reloading might have a way of tuning without having to measure jam.

Great info thanks for the video keep up the good work.

Working on it now also in my 6.5 CM Tikka I just did the 10 shot powder charge over my MS and now I will start with seating depth.

I like the idea of trying to tune a load you haven't had great success with

I'm planning on running load development for three calibers this year. I had planned on utlizing the Saterlee 10 load ladders test and then apply Erik's process to fine tune. Thanks for the video series and splitting that Erik's process works. Per your request in video, I would like to see you revisit the Nosler RDF 140gr. In 6.5 Creedmoor.. Maybe you could do some ladder testing with several powders and then fine tuning with Erik's process. Essentially doing load development from the ground up.

I have also done this work up so far with one load and rifle it shows me that this is correct. I would like to see you do it with a load that was not so great in the past.

I ordered and received a seating stem from Hornady for the A-tips, my original 308 bushing in the comparator was too short to reach the ogive. If you look on their website, I think it is now included in the various seating bushings. It should work with most of the low drag sleek bullets by other manufacturers, try it no guarantees.

Working on the powder node at .020 off the lands. The last fired rounds, had three that tightened up and my next test will be in between those test loads. When I find the powder node I will use this method for adjusting to the lands.

Good video. Easy to follow. You got a new subscriber

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! Welcome!

this was outstanding thank you very much

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Very interesting, I'm going to have to give this method a try and see the results. I do have a load which so far has yielded a .43" inch group....let's see if that can improve out of my Ruger American Predator 6.5 CM.

Good video. Your testing and data expands nicely on the base coverage of this topic by Mr. Cortina. One thing i found peculiar tho, was what you said near the end of the vid; where you said "i can't ignore the groups down at that shorter end either tho...", but you'd want to get more data there; "...need to repeat a larger sample group..." I found that a very odd comment, because it seems to me that accuracy node b/w BCTO length of 2.205 to 2.199 was significantly superior to the one b/w 2.232 and 2.226.

Thanks for the video and information

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

You bet!

Excellent. Thank you.

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

You are welcome!

I really like those target stickers you use on the cardboard. I've never found them in stores before.

I would run with the shorter bto lengths, not only were the groups good, but they also have a similar point of impact. I don’t think a person can just look at the group size alone, I think the point of impact come into it as well. Looking at the groups from your first video the point of impact is also shifting. Ad tune changes with barrel wear your zero will be shifting with some of those small groups. The shorter bto from this video held a more consistent poi as well, which will help keep your load in tune with barrel wear.

GREAT VIDEO........HAD TO HIT STOP..REPLAY AT LEAST 20 TIMES!!

I'm working up initial loads for a .223-based wildcat and will be utilizing some of your (and Erik's) procedures. Question: Should I find a decent powder load first and then adjust COL from there? Two different powder (H335) weights worked really good on my last range trip, and I'm looking at developing one or the other.

Great videos! New subscriber. I am curious as to know how you’re shooting groups? Is there a video on that? Vice, bags, etc...

Excellent.

Excellent work. I have but worked up a powder load. Now to do this seating test. At the shortest length, CBTO, how far off the lands did you end up?

I think you're darn right it was successful. It can be seen on the graph the nodes coming in & out in an almost sinusoidal form as predicted by many besides Cortina. I wonder, would it be worth testing a substantially different charge weight at your new optimum ogive length, just to see if the rifle system seems to prefer that length regardless of charge weight? Great stuff. Regards.................Rotas.

Nice job. I also now sort bullets base to Ogive and shoot them together. Cheers

Chasing lands is stupid for sure. I 100 % agree. If I am developing a load with a new bullet or for a new rifle, I will find jam, back off 10 thou, re check it to make sure I'm not still going to stick a bullet in the rifling, and then that is my starting measurement. My neighbor was a bench rest shooter and showed me this method many years ago. He was also the one who told me that full length sizing is the way to go.

I haven’t started load developing with bullet seating other than making sure I am not Jammed. Consequently, anytime you are at 1/2 MOA you are shooting very well. It seems like the 6.5 likes to jump

after watching his vid i tried it, all my brass was condition the same,lapua 3 firings,fl resized .002 bump on the neck , anneled ,for 308 (tikka t3 lite) I used an m30 die for mandrill gives me .002 neck tension.using hornady custom grade seater (no exander)and sizer with a mic adjuster on top.I bought a new co ax press after seeing my run out from the rc.i ordered the bore scope but didn't get until after the test.i'm using 178eldx over 43 gr varget,the case is 100% full with a little crunch just settling not compressed.and cci br2 primers seated using rcbs bench mount.starting at mag length i went back .003 i did like 8 sets of 3rnds.i found one at the last set, so i loaded 5 the next day the bore scope came so i cleaned it until no copper,they shot 1moa same as the rest, I wasn't sure i can go back more I didn't get any presure signs but i would be compressing .I stopped as i only have around 50 left and can't find more. i'm thinking either better dyes and mandrills, switch to 175 match king (wanted this for hunting load as well as to start distance) or leave some copper on the lands for a seasoning,open for ideas, thank you.

“In a rifled bore in front of the chamber, the short rear section is without rifling, and allows the bullet an initial "run-up" to build up momentum before encountering riflings during shooting. The most posterior part of this unrifled section is called a freebore, and is usually cylindrical. The portion of the semi-rifled bore immediately in front of the freebore, called the leade, starts to taper slightly as it becomes the rifled bore and guides the bullet towards the area where the riflingless bore transitions into the fully rifled bore. Together the freebore and leade form the throat region, where the riflings impactfully "bite" into the moving bullet during shooting.” -Wiki Rifles differ greatly in Freebore length and Leade Taper angle and length. That’s why there’s so much to improve upon over universal retail ammunition. Take the mystic away by measuring and knowing your rifle barrel’s throat region lengths and angles.

I went full ree on this process for my 300 win mag. I found jam at 3.735" with my neck tension on a 225 ELDm, started at 3.715" down in increments of .003 and then realized I wasted $200 worth of materials and my shooting is more inconsistent than any variable I'm changing lol

When you change the OAL you change more than the length. Your velocity changes, your SD changes and of course the jump changes. You are not just changing one variable. The case volume of powder being compressed or not is also happening. What Eric Cortina says is you can get your rifle to shoot the load you have better by changing the bullet length. That is correct without a doubt. What he also says is it doesn't mean that your rifle won't shoot a different load better only that the load you are using will shoot it's best depending on the bullet depth. Using a Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die will give one as good a consistency in neck tension as using a mandrel to finish your case sizing. After all it has a mandrel. Everyone has their own technique of reloading but often people are chasing a ghost by over focusing on one thing and forgetting that other things are changing as they do the one thing, they are focused on like bullet length. There is always more going on than one looks at when reloading. But we need to keep it simple, so we have to find a technique that works for us. Eric Cortina has changed his techniques through time and passes on what he has learned. There is no perfect way to do reloading.

@matthewlepage6848

6 ай бұрын

Good info here. Both Nosler and Hodgdon state that compressed loads generally give better accuracy and no doubt that's what the seating depth is tuning. It actually affects air volume in the brass and less air = more consistent powder burns and I don't believe Erik states that in his videos.

this was perfect.

I'd love to see an experiment changing the seating depth of factory ammo just to see if it "blows my mind" like Erik says in his video. If you can improve on accuracy on mass loaded ammo with a bigger range of quality control, tightly monitored hand loads should be a no-brainer.

@adambrown6125

2 жыл бұрын

Chad I did this for my .222 and my .270 hunting rifles a lot of measuring on handloads against different factory ammo as long as you start with projectiles that seat out far enough to reseat it works got the advice from an old gunsmith I knew. Sorry no video to prove my claim but try it.

@fredwagner543

Жыл бұрын

Interesting suggestion on factory ammo. Since reloading components are a problem. I would like to see a testing video on using factory ammo. Lengthing or shorting seating depth to tune a load

I watched Mr. Cortinas video and figured from his success he was correct. Proved it by witnessing a factory rifle do 1/2 MOA and under groups with a factory Hornady varmint load.

Super interesting. Looks like if I’m going to keep chasing for smaller groups, annealing is going to be a must. Can’t bring myself to shell out the $1300 just yet though. Someday...

@michaelmuzzy8401

3 жыл бұрын

get an annalease 230 and done,that'll give you money for a bore scope,if you can't see it or measure it you don't know, boretec it was around 150 or so,

@w.anderson8806

3 жыл бұрын

Do the anneal with a bezel torch and drill. Bit slower but a cheap way to get it done.

Great video!

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

I use a comparison of bullet lead time to OBT modelled for various loads at a fixed seating oal. To kick start the process I pick a charge perhaps 20%under pmax and fire 3 shots at my seating depth to get Tested MV.I get the coal by either for longer bullets starting at my initial lands test with that bullet minus 25thou or for smaller cals and bullets for whatever powder makers use in their charts within mag length. Either way I just ensure at least one full bore diameter of shank is seated. I then test based on predetermined nodes identified from modelling with the model calibrated using the tested MV to true actual chamber pressures to determine BLT and OBT. It works for half and full nodes. For each node selected where BLT and OBT are a closest match I load three bullets. I pick the smallest three shot groups an load to 0.2gr either side to find a pressure insensitive area. There’s usually one or two of these for each powder:bullet combo. I pick the middle of these and try seating in another three thou. I move back no more than 9 thou in three steps. The best group and seating distance is used and for that bullet in that rifle I never change seating again. The modelling is done using Gordon’s Reloading Tool. It is involved but not too hard to grasp. This is the most repeatable and reliable method I have ever tested and the most economical on bullets. At most you end up only needing to shoot perhaps between 19 and 25 bullets . Thats it. Done, dusted and it works. The secret is in the modelling. You can use Quick Load but cannot calibrate it to true mv snd pmax to get bullet lead time hence cannot compare with obt. QL is of limited use and not worth investing in these days. To echo what Eric Cortina says, never chase the lands. It is a complete waste of time. Never fall for the “secant ogive bullets need to be jammed” nonsense. They will actually jump further than most think and still get reliable precision. The secret is in both uniforming neck tension and importantly reducing bullet run out. Think about that, with secant ogive bullets even a few thou of runout can indue yaw by affecting gyroscopic stability. Remove runout error by using the right seater profile and jump mostly becomes a non issue. Approaching tuning like this removes urban myths and uses systematic and careful set up with best use of data for most economical outputs. I have my doubts on satterlea and ocw is really a crude tool to get you in the zone which expends more rounds than needed to fine tune, Try pressure/velocity modelling using Erics starting point and calibrate the model using tested MV. You’ll never do anything else again once tried and will determine accurate pressures as a safety check to boot. It works.

@michaellane1316

Жыл бұрын

Tell me more please. Your comment brought about some real interest. Always more than one way to skin a cat for sure. Just starting in the reloading game and am looking for for an article that hits home, your approach, although I am still trying to fathom definitely has merit. Trying the ocw first. Do not have the road wisdom as of yet on all of the lingo. Jusyt retired with many years as a compnent builder in the heavy equipt field so ocd was an issue at one time. The approach you have clicks with me considerably, so hopefully you'll see this and get back. If so, maybe we could take the conversation to a different platform. Thanks.

Barrels vibrate. Firing pin. Not just hitting but stopping, two separate thing. Primer. Especially cause it’s the sharpest vibration (why smaller primers work better...) and charge the biggest but not the only and certainly the slowest. All 3 go from front to back millions of times per second. And not at the same speed or intensity. Seating depth is just like fine tuning a powder charge to accurately time the bullet leaving the barrel when the most amount of these vibrations is towards the rear and the front is the stablest. Find a coinciding lull in front vibrationS and you’ll find one hole. You can time that exit using any seating depth or any powder charge by moving/adjusting one or the other. But moving the bullet is just more accurate.

Very well done, little fast on speaking lol. Take same tests to try bullets you previously weren't impressed with. Thanks for sharing

Good review of your process. After you identify the seating depth node you want to use, do you ever go back and sample powder charges in the same vicinity to fine tune the load? I am guessing not but don’t know if you *always* determine powder charge first.

i want to know if changing seating depth is measuring the effect of jump, or the effect of the pressure in the case (more depth = more compact volume, does that create higher or lower pressure)?

Sublime.

I wonder about taking a load with the same CBTO And shoot it at 300 yards at well as at varying outside temperatures and barrel temperatures. I'm trying this process and have 2 lengths ready to test with 10 shot groups. My 3 shot groups are the smallest I've shot at this velocity. It has helped having a micrometer seating die.

Something ive figured out many of these loading and testing methods work absolutely when dealing with a match quality barrel When using a factory barrel you can have verying results altho the fundamentals of the process are there Example Eric says the harmonic node is around 6 thousands spread in then out so 12 thousands Over all and when loaded short you will be able to cruise through the 6 thousands node till you get to the back side of it then back your seating depth off 3 to 6 thousands again to arrive back in the node... But with a factory barrel you may have a node every 6 thousands or every 10 thousands or 12 thousands and each node will have wildley different outcomes in group sizes... then the length of the node could only be 2 to 4 thousands only giving you a couple hundred round window to go work with before migrating out of it... So where i 100% agree with eric i sometimes wonder if it's actually worth it when talking about a factory button or harmmer forged barrels... eric himself has also said he had really only ever owned premium rifles. i would love to see a series where he does load development on camera with the 6.5 needmore with a few different powders and projectiles start to finish to see if his experience matchs mine i have a factory 223 tikka barrel and it shoots .7 to .9 regardless of what i put in it (within twist and still using premium lead) however i could never find a load that goldly locks a sub .5 moa Now my .308 factory barrel is the opposite it LIKES what it likes and HATEs what it hates. im talking .3s or less for what it likes and 2.0 for what it dont like... Whats your thoughts and could this be reasonably tested? Im also talking with limited experience load developing 3 cartridges 2 factory barrels, 1 match, and 8 or 10 different load combinations between them. you, JRB, Eric, Impact and reading the winds have been my biggest references

I really like this method and have been using it with good results. However I've been loading pretty hot loads for gasguns, both 556 and 308 which seem to be much more finicky on node size. One thing I think isn't discussed by Eric is the relationship between seat depth and combustion chamber for the powder. For example I may find a great ES SD node at a seat depth but the accuracy is bad. Tuning the seat depth down I get accuracy but now I'm compressing the charge and the crunching powder gives bad combustion. This it turns into a guessing game of chasing variables trying to anticipate which charge and depth is the sweet spot. Curious if you encounter this or if you have enough case capacity that this isn't an issue. Running high performance 556 seems like a game of finding a load that exactly fit 100 percent case capacity with the perfect seat depth.

@Ensign_Cthulhu

3 жыл бұрын

IIRC Erik is using different cartridges from you, and he's using them in a custom bolt gun. I don't recall if he's single loading or feeding from a magazine, but either way, he might be able to seat OUT a lot further and find seating depth nodes which you are constrained from if (for example) you're trying to load long heavy bullets and keep them within AR action and magazine OAL limits. Remember, his technique isn't "chase the lands", it's "find out how far OUT you can seat without actually jamming the bullet into the rifling, then work back from there."

@repairfreak

3 жыл бұрын

I agree Josh K that compressing the powder is most likely not going to be good. If I understand correctly , the pro-shooters stay away from compressed loads because of the inconsistency in accuracy it causes. I believe most hand-loaders would suggest using a different powder (to avoid compressing) that doesn’t fill the cases as much for the accuracy desired. Also as you probably know shorter bullets typically have a lower B.C. , but in some cases doesn’t make huge difference unless trying to defeat wind drift at extreme long distance ranges. As I heard it said many times before, bullet drop is consistent and predictable, however wind drift is not. So I suppose it’s really up to one to decide how far do they really need to shoot. For hunting many would argue any shot over 300 yards on larger game e.g. Dear, Elk is unethical. However for shooting paper & steel no limit need apply. Happy shooting ✌️😎👍

Something else to maybe add. The reason you do not do not do not try to stick with a vibration lull that’s very sharp is because just 15-20 degrees of temp change is enough to put your FPS far enough out of that timed lull you open way way up. And therefore the rifle can only shoot good at that exact temp only. Which is why it’s best to stick with the very middle of a at least .01 wide group. Even stretch that group .001-002 one way or the other to really narrow the middle. The bullet speed can change but the vibration speed does not. Or at least far far less. Based on temp. Stick to the middle of your largest lull unless you shoot indoors... in a temperature and humidity controlled environment lol. Think of it that way. Timing.

I would love to see a comparison of load tuning. What has the biggest effect on the group size. Neck tension or seating depth. What is the first step after finding a good low sd load.

I’d say that sometimes it doesn’t work. My rifle has enough throat erosion to where the jam plus offset is further forward than where I already know I get pressure from with the BTHP (way into the lands). I’d guess that if you get that jam # when the lands are new and sharp, it’s probably a very different #. So for the average person, I’d say it’s still important to know where the lands are for safety. Now the ELDM with a different shape I can move forward. But I’m still careful. That jam # is still way forward of where I can even safely load that bullet.

Hi bolt action,love you videos. Are you on FB/insta able to DM ? I would like to pls know, when finding good node , what seating depth do you use ,as per your following vid you the play with that ,but for the node finding, do you just use factory std length, as I understand you looking at the data not the groups yet?? Thanks very much and for the awesome channel

I wonder if you have plotted the angular location of each test group, as well as its size? The barrel movement is not, of course, limited to a 'straight line vibration', but is likely to have a rotational component, as well...just thinking. Sorry, but I did not 'get' whether you had looked at actual velocity of each round, or at each node, to see if there is any correlation of velocity with COAL?

Excellent video and further data to support that a "significant" bullet jump will not take away from accuracy. Satterlee and others have experimented longer jump. Besides performing well, these seating depths work good with affordable polymer mags. Can't beat that.

Really great test. I wonder how the node works with seating pressure. And lubricity of the brass. Without having to go with such a light LBS of tension, if polishing the inside of the neck could be seen?

What program are you using to determine the overall moa of each group?

I like your approach. I’ve taken my press to the range and loaded everything long. I can adjust on the fly easier. I’ll shoot two and if I like it shoot 2-3 more to verify. Also, shooting at 200 yards will tell you more without too much else affecting the bullet. Keep the good videos coming! I like the talking hands!

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks David, its one of the reasons I picked up the arbor press. I don't have anything over 150 very close to me unfortunately. More data coming as always!

Great video and lots of good data. Thank you for that, but I'm confused about one aspect. You mention that the CBTO measurement for "touching the lands" in that barrel at that time was at 2.222", and the jam length you chose to use as your baseline was 2.270". From there, based on Erik's procedure and recommendations, you started your testing with a CBTO of 2.250". Aren't you effectively .028 "into the lands" at that length? I had assumed that Erik's procedure of using .020" off the jam would result in a short jump, but maybe not? Even the node you found at 2.229" is a bit "into the lands". It seems to me that you found a great node at 2.205" which, theoretically, is about .017 off the lands, which makes sense to my mind. Did you end up staying around that CBTO node (2.205")... until it moved? Thanks again.

Thanks. I have a couple questions. De you know you’re Lapua brass capacity? Do you use Quickload app? If so, how does your QL expected velocity compare with you load data? Finally I don’t shoot single shot. With that in mind would you treat the max CO EL that fits your magazine as a start point? Thank you!

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

HI Jeff, My Lapua brass case capacity is ~52.4 gr of water. I do use Quickload, Usually the more accurate the info you give the better your result is with quickload. In this case the QL estimate would be 2725, but the actual is 2775. Some of this is the CCI-41 primers being just a touch hotter. With this velocity the case pressure should be under 59k PSI. For feeding from a magazine, yes just start at the max you are able to use and start backing it off in .003 steps and see what happens. This is tuning a load that already works well. I am going to try one soon that didn't work so well and see what happens. BAR

@jameskozlowski5496

3 жыл бұрын

After you find your seating depth node and settle on it. You need to find your velocities again and then go back into quickloads and make adjustments to your data to match what you are finding in your actual loads fired. It will be intersting to see if your new data in quickloads hits on a barrel timing node with your new seating depth adjustement and new COAL input. If not try changing the powder charge to get you back to the barrel timing node and keep the seating depth the same and see if it tightens up even more.

I shoot a ladder test for seating depth 2thou apart. Recording where each shot landed so you can see where they tighten up. Saves on ammo and tells you the same thing.

I'm curious to know if the bullet seating depth is less about the depth, ie reduced case volume, and more to do with the area of bullet in contact with the case. Does the extra "grip" friction of the case result in more consistent results?

@BoltActionReloading

2 жыл бұрын

I really think it has to do with the time of barrel exit as well as the shockwaves going through the barrel

Smarter then the average marksman this guys is. I also refuse to to 26 dollars for targets. Not even 10 bucks for a damn piece a paper to poke holes in. I use paper plates and a sharpie lol.

What APP or software program do you use for calculating group size and related data?

@patricklogan6089

3 жыл бұрын

OnTarget PC

It would be interesting once u find out what seating depth is best, then re test powder charges either side again to see if it makes any difference.

@michealbradam8980

2 жыл бұрын

It definitely does! Found my sweet spots with the depth and then for my own testing went up in .3gr increments was pretty surprised with the results! Definitely need to find a sweet spot on charge and seating depth!

B I found this video very interesting. I am curious about seeing if a not so good load can be adjusted to a point of working well. Would like to see if tinkering with some bullets/loads I think wont work well with my rifles could actually work good.

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

I am sure we are going to get there. Not sure what order, but I think that this is an interesting topic to cover.

If like to see you try it in a loading that had good or better velocities or SDs but not group sizes just to see if revisiting that would be a good test

I have a video request - would you consider testing to determine if velocity test and seating depth test results are impacted by using new brass vs brass that has been fire-formed?

Great video - bit confused with the graphic at 10:34. Said next text coal 2.203 and coal 2.204 = coal 2.824. Did you mean CBTO?

If you are not wanting to cut holes, just seat the bullet to the depth of a brand new box of store bought ammo and work the loads to possibly tighten the group.

Have you produced a video on how you measure shot groups? Also, I am looking for a computer program (MAC, not PC) or iPhone app (IOS) to use. Any recommendations?

@BoltActionReloading

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Bruce, I was using software here that used to be free but now they charge for so I don't know how the current version works. I have switched to using my shot marker and I really like it, but its probably overkill for most. I see at lot of apple folks using balistic x app. I am not an apple person so I haven't tried it out. Good Luck, BAR

There are so many variables like which primer works better then which powder works better then which style of bullet ie boat-tail flat base solid copper soft point hollow points then crimp no crimp which is more consistent then the powder load then the barrel length the twist rate and that’s per each gun

All I look for in my handloads, since I am not a competitive shooter is reasonable accuracy out to about 500 yards, since I doubt I would ever take a shot at an animal beyond that. At that distance, I would take 4" group all day long; which is about the average in the huge variety of calibers I shoot. I know from experience with the components I use, that they will have the ft lbs of knock down power to quickly and humanely take the game I hunt. All of that other information is good, but it doesn't take all of that for me to keep more venison in my freezer than I can eat.

@slatsgrobneck7515

3 жыл бұрын

I am of the same mind. I am here because i can't consistently do 4in groups at 500 yards. So I want to make better rounds. These folks have got it down and are sharing great data and processes. What a great time to be a reloader.

What app. Did you use to on the group size?

Eric says adjust your seating depth 0.003 till you find a node. Eric shoots Berger boolits with Brian. Brian says seating depth does not matter from 0.010 to 0.060. With Berger boolits!

@christopherfreeman3095

3 жыл бұрын

Brian is stating that the ogive shape is forgiving on the Berger. What Erik and this test show is how to match bullet speed with a “dwell” in the harmonic frequency in the barrel whip. This characteristic is unique to each individual barrel/chamber/cartridge/bullet combination. Quite literally, you are trying to make a timing overlap where the bullet exits the muzzle at the same instant that the muzzle is at the farthest point (one of 2, actually) away from center/resting. At this muzzle location it will me spending the most time in the harmonic sequence, giving the widest window of timing. Hope that all makes sense...

Lol at that bullet show case turn table. I love it

How does this accuracy compare to jam?

I'm new to reloading and I'm learning at lot from you. My first question (of the thousands to follow) has to do with how you manage shooting all these test groups and cleaning your barrel. I run 5-7 shots then I clean. I've been told to shoot (and record) until the groups open up...then I'll know how my gun handles a fouled barrel. What are your thoughts? Anyone?

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

Hi John, It depends what "game" you are trying to compete in. The BR guys tend to clean endlessly, some PRS guys swear by barely cleaning. I try and clean between range trips (for me 150- 200 rounds) few people like to publish their process because in the internets eyes no one is right. Good Luck. Generally speaking should you clean? Yes. How frequently? If you loose accuracy, clean. I would not advocate for leaving a barrel dirty for long durations of time. Hope this helps in some way. BAR

@johnpickitt6640

3 жыл бұрын

@@BoltActionReloading I have never gotten a response from anyone before. It REALLY means a lot. Thank you!

What app did you use to measure group size?

Always test loads between 0.060" and 0.080" off the lands and possibly more. A lot of bullets will just simply shoot better with a bit of jump.

So 5mm on a Mosin from a lands not too far ?🤔 Should I bring a closer or not?

I guess it would depend on the speed you are looking for Just look at the dimensions almost and you could see the sweat spot Just a thought but I'm a amateur Custom is always tough because everything is way tighter

working within the confines of an AR mag would one just set seating depth back by .020's at a time?

@HighPriestVaticanAssasin

3 жыл бұрын

*.003"

I would be curious to know how your ES changed in relation to changing your cbto. I would assume you had to go back and shoot a chrono ladder to find the the lowest ES powder charge at that cbto, find that cbto's speed node. My way is to find the seating depth 1st at 1 grain below book max. Then do a chrono ladder to find the charge/speed node thats at least .4 grs across with a ES under 20 fps max, 15 or under would be preferred. Then load that charge weight and fine tune the cbto again. Sometimes it takes me a lot of rounds to find that load thats .5 and a SD of 7 or 8 or less. But I do. I have found that seating depth changes also affects your ES. I am curious as to your opinion of my method?

@BoltActionReloading

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Charles have you checked out this video? kzread.info/dash/bejne/h6ar18yGlLu7l9Y.html I think a lot of your questions may be addressed in there. If not try and leave another comment and I will try my best. BAR

Isnt this the second half of what scott saterlees test is?

Interesting, I tried this on my 6.5CM Defiance/Bartlein barrel with 140gr ELD and did not have the same results. .010-.014 off the lands performed the best and got progressively worse the further off the lands.