You made me cry last time and my JBC was very hurt. How could you Steve!

Thanks for confirming my impressions of the Metcal MX5200 (I have the ThermalTronics clone/rebrand). The short handpiece to tip distance really helps in my shaky hands, and the heat output means reworking boards with a ton of copper is no sweat. It’s like having a cheat code for soldering.

Used the Metcal MX500 and JBC T245 (DDE) while working on production lines for many years and they're both great! Personally I would say the JBC tips last a bit longer but the solder you use has more of an impact on that. The green part of the JBC handle dose get too hot after about 3hours if it doesn’t have the foam sleeve so I many times found myself holding it by the back black part of the handle. The real down side to the Metcal system is the method of tip changing and storage, it feel like an afterthought. In every JBC I've had the transformers have gotten noisy after about a year. But still when ever I have had the choice I've picked JBC as they're more versatile overall.

Really excited about the comparisons to come, I'm tired of my old iron with changeable front tips (heater not integrated). It still works and is in really good condition, but it does not have the thermal performance of something more modern.

Now the lenght of the tip seems reasonble. If I was in the market for an iron, I would consider this one a choice.

Nice work ! I really still love my JBC, was alot of money but i sure hope it lasts many many years :)

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

They do make nice equipment. I have a JBC which I'll cover next in this series.

@JasonLeaman

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Thanks sir ! A question or maybe you can cover this.. Who makes / sells a Tool holder that is big / strong enough to use that can hot swap with. The built in one is ok but only hold's 2 :(

Can't wait to see the Quick TS1200a (which the manufacturer would make a Hot Tweezers for that model as well).

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I will review the TS1200A shortly, though the 5mm tip sounds like it might be a few weeks away so the thermal testing might have to wait.

@nilomyki

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics No problem understood.

Light weights very comfortable handling 👌

Can you tell us what the voltage and resistance is of each tip? I know some of them have the thermocouple in series with the element so maybe there's no way to get that with an ohm meter anymore.

Thanks for these comparison. That's what i expect from these 2. As you mentioned tips makes a big difference. I know that JBC can provide station for test for 30 days for free. You can use that to make a comparison with genuine JBC station (you have to have original tips for it as they do not provide it for test).

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I'll enquire about the 30 day test, I'm not sure what terms it comes with. I may end up just buying it to make things quicker/easier. Possibly one of the JBC Premium Stations as I don't see them around as much. Also the CD-2BQF if there is demand for it.

@marsma18

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics As I know there is no special terms to participate it. You just sign on JBC page and distributor will contact you how to handle the station (it works like this for me ).

Awsome comparisment! It would be nice to compare desoldering guns and hot tweezers, there is not much reviews of them.

Much better performance. Stick with the solid tips.

Thanks for the follow up video. In future videos can you please introduce the induction heater aspect of GT120. Because for me induction heater is a chunky coil where you putt object inside the coil. How it is organized in GT120 ?

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I'll see if I can find any information about it. Metcal are doing some webinars on it, so I'll see if I can get any info from those.

@cannesahs

3 жыл бұрын

It is just like that. The core of the tip is inside a coil. Eddy currents heat the core directly removing thermal resistance between the core and a heating resistor (which is also coil shaped).

@cannesahs

3 жыл бұрын

I found a doc from Metcal. Lets see if YT allows links this time: metcal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Inductive-vs-resistive-heating-a-comparison_by_Metcal.pdf

Thermaltronics all day long 😉

I measured several different T12 tips power draw and it was around 50W

Nice comparison again! I'm quite impressed by MX-5200 - I'm flabbergasted by the way it's able to flow solder down on the coin and spread across the surface as flat as it could be. Truly an unforgiving beast. From what I know about soldering stations, the only fair comparison to MX-5200 would be Hakko FX-100. Both uses the same heating technology and are priced similarly. Hakko recently launched a hot tweezer for the same station and they might come up with a desoldering unit soon to match up against the Metcal. I've even read that the tips are interchangeable between the standards irons of both stations. I know you're not much into the Hakko gear as I haven't seen you use any of their stuff on your videos, but it would be a heated comparison if you could get hold of the Hakko station. That will reveal the true, undisputed champion 🏆 of induction heating technology! Thanks for the review! Really enjoyed, especially when comments section gets erupted from fan boy comments.

@chrisharvie-smith486

3 жыл бұрын

The 5200 tips can put about 90 watts on mine even using the tiny tips, sharp pointed ones for smt parts. This works fine as they cannot overheat.

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

Hakko stations didn't exist in the UK until very recently, so that's the only reason I don't tend to feature them. I also massively dislike their colour scheme/appearance (looks like a toy), but that's a secondary issue.

@roseelectronics4582

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Nobody seems to like the blue and yellow of the Hakkos. The change of the colour scheme proved to be a disaster for them. Despite the odds, Hakko is ever more popular especially because they've made quality devices at affordable prices. Their FX-951 is among the most popular stations today. Although I was excited to watch the performance of the promising GT series, now I'm more impressed with the MX5000 series. Never had the glimpse of a real comparison of MX series before. These videos are excellent! Can't wait to see the battle between the genuine JBC and the Metcals.

@jaro6985

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the Hakko tweezer info. There is really no reason to compare the FX100 to the metcal though, its the same technology and output power is 50W on the hakko vs 80W. So its more like a competitor for the metcal MX500.

@roseelectronics4582

3 жыл бұрын

@@jaro6985 I had that in mind but watching tons of reviews have made me believe that sometimes labelled wattage meant nothing. The tweezer has four different adjustments probably not available from any brand. Take a look at Exso Ledsol 300 as well. It's from a Korean manufacturer.

Hi Steve, not miffed at all! AFAIK the Best / JABE stations drive the cartridges differently compared to the genuine JBC stations. That said, I'm a bit rusty and I'm not too keen on diving back into that particular rabbit hole, I'd probably end up buying more tips (again). As long as we're comparing stuff, might be interesting to see if the MX5200 is comparable to the HD stations w/ T470 tips. But I have to agree that T245 (and T120 too presumably) get rather hot if you're soldering for an extended amount of time. May have to look into a new foam sleeve (mine is MIA).

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I will be getting a JBC with the T245 handle to hopefully clear up any speculation. I use the JBC at work and notice very little difference between it and the Jabe when at home, but I'm obviously not doing high load tests with a stopwatch so there probably will be some difference!

@Mr.Laidukas

3 жыл бұрын

I do not have and never used JABE, but looked to China 15-30 USD JBC control boards on Aliexpress and noticed that these China JBC controller boards it seems do not use thermocouple inside soldering tip. Third contact is not only earth but also second contact of thermocouple. These chinese controllers use earth contact only when handle is parked to stand to sense standby mode. So when you take soldering handle out of the stand thermocouple is not even connected to controller. My guess is that they approximate temperature from heater element resistance/current. What do you think? This wpuld explain why in KZread videos where people test them they notice that controller is not sensitive to temperature changes, and detect only huge temperature drops and then apply more power to heating element.

@richard-sim

3 жыл бұрын

I know at least some of the JBC clone stations use entirely different wiring of the connector/handle/cartridge, making them not actually compatible with genuine JBC handles. Found that one out the hard way! I don't know if that goes for the JABE/Best stations, but I wouldn't be surprised, and is certainly the case for the X-Soldering ones.

Maybe Metcal Mx5200 is the best soldering station in the world. Best Regards.

What was the date on the older style 2p coin that you used when testing the KSGER T12? Since 1992, 2p coins have been minted in copper-plated steel, prior to 1992 the coins were minted from bronze.

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

1997 on the KSGER one

Steve the Quick station you showed, looks like a (TS1100) If so, the handle is nothing like your picture, at least the one I tried of eBay. 🖖👍 OK for a cheap hobby user station, building up kits and JLCPCB soldering your project circuit boards, but apart from that Its, as good as mains iron IMO.

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

It's a TS1200A, but I've not opened the box to inspect it yet. I'll be interested to see how it compares to the others though the availability of the tips seems to be a bit of an issue at the moment.

have to say that was a pretty awesome demo. We don't usually see such clear comparisons between these irons. For myself, JBC is my chosen all rounder. So therefore it is unfortunate to find that the handle gets hot. But OK we then want to know if the Pace handle gets hot. Or the ERSA one (by comparison to this JBC). Maybe another solution for the T245 (which i am stuck on) is some small modification to the handle but without going too far and ruining it. Was also wondering if the larger T470 handle was worthwhile. However you seem to have answered that here... that the general size T245 is in fact pretty darn capable, with that chisel tip there C245-908. So then its pretty dififcult to justify what situation the T470 will benefit over and above that. Looking forwards to seeing the ERSA as also seems highly regarded. But so few people actually end up getting them. BTW the packaging for that new JBC tip does not look like others which come in a rectangular plastic box, so is it genuine / where did you get it from? [edit] ah now i see photos of one exactly like it on amazon.de. So maybe amazon then. However I believe Kaisertech is the most well known dealer / authorized reseller in UK. Probably where i'll get mine from. So in terms of identifying 'useful tips' from the huge JBC range. So far have shortlisted only 2, the first one was the very fine bent tip (C245-029). For micro soldering with poor access between tall parts. And now this 2nd one the huge chisel tip you featured here in this video (C245-908). What I am missing next is... 1 small fine chisel tip for micro soldering (my preference over conical tip). And a normally sized chisel for regular 0.1 thru hole parts. Plus maybe some knife tip. Or something else for 'simultaneous lines of legs' IDK. They have all sorts of weird special shapes. You know, like the 2 pronged ones for getting both pads of an smd, etc. very easy to get carried away. The important thing is to get firstly the ones used most often. So I wonder if there is anything else. Clearly a conical tip is good (not for soldering) but for burning holes in random objects etc. But could instead use my cheaper TS80 or KSGER T12 for less demanding cheap junk. For those more casual task which does not require a higher performance. And then save the JBC for the good stuff.

@dreamcat4

3 жыл бұрын

Ah... seem i forgot about vtech-smt. As another UK alternative supplier to get the JBC tips from. Wonder if they also are authorized reseller like Kaisertech is

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

@@dreamcat4 Vtech don't seem to be responding to my e-mails, but Kaisertech have been very responsive. We used to use Vtech to order JBC stations at work, but no more. The T470 + Heavy Duty station are probably of limited usefulness, but I might see if I can get a 30 day demo. I am looking at the JBC DDE-2C with a T245 handpiece, and maybe the CD-2BQF if there is demand. The CDE-2SQA is ready to be ordered, but it's release keeps getting delayed and since it's fundamentally the same as the CD-2BQF, I don't want to buy that and find they release the CDE-2SQA a month later...

Curious how the Ersa i-CON will compare with the other soldering stations you have. My i-CON1 is nice, but I wish changing tips would be quicker. The handle heats up a little too much at the top end as well. But I don't really have anything to compare against, maybe those are just common problems?

@andreiciora2765

3 жыл бұрын

Fx 951 is a good choise or maybe quick

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I used to have an old Ersa RDS80 which got hot too. I think the entire metal body of the Metcal handle helps a lot.

@andreiciora2765

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics it is true

Did you measure tip temperatures? Was the pcb under coins let cooldown to room temperature? I'm not a JBC "fan" (yet), but stations can matter. Algorithm for heating is in software. If you have ERSA and Pace with about 5mm chicel tips, could you add those to comparison?

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I'm in the process of sourcing the other stations and I'm waiting for an ETA on the 5mm tip for the Quick since it only ships with a tiny tip. I will make sure all future tests are comparative.

@cannesahs

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Measuring temperatures opens another rabbit hole. Amount of solder, contact pressure, contact point on sensor and on tip, sensor cleanless. I have been able to get over 15 °C measurement differences even tip temp dont change.

Very interesting test. It seems that the lower power of the MX-5200 meant that you couldn't feed the solder in quite as quickly but the conventional irons seemed to slow down after a while which allowed the MX-5200 to catch up and then pass them. Do you find that your advanced handle on the MX-5200 heats up towards the cable end, I.e. where the tip connector will seat internally? I find mine does heat up there, not a huge amount but enough to notice it.

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

Not on the advanced one, but on the ultrafine handle I notice a bit warm. It's possibly some contact impedance causing it.

@yngndrw.

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Thanks that's good to know, I'll have to have a look inside and see if I can see anything wrong with the connector.

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

@@yngndrw. I've never actually looked down the barrel, but some contract cleaner might be all that's needed

@yngndrw.

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Will give that a try! Fortunately the grip unscrews so you can get a closer look - It looks okay from what I can see but I'll see if the contact cleaner helps.

@userPrehistoricman

3 жыл бұрын

The top 2 irons seem to have a hot solder ball on top of the cold penny, whereas the MX-5200 is heating the penny rather than the solder.

The reason the JBC at work getting hot is that you are not supposed to have fun at work 😂

Still getting the JBC at the earliest opportunity. Mainly the absurd amount of different tips JBC has is the clincher for me. Have the WX2 now and that is ok but by god their limited choice of tips is a disgrace. Also .. JBC has the option of a nitrogen handle, seems like something I might want to play with at one time or another.

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

Nitrogen purge is on the list for later this year. Stay tuned!

@xConundrumx

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Good because there is not a single youtube video on the subject. So really keen to see someone tackle the concept. Also keen to see JBC's new smart line of stations if they ever release them. It has kept me from pulling the trigger sofar but it's been on the 'coming soon' list for so long I am about to give up and just go for the 2 or 4 tool station directly.

@rdp8545

3 жыл бұрын

you will not regret getting a JBC station. Worth every cent and was one of my best investments for my lab including my microscope.

Wow metcal winner 🏆

SDG #086 What's the best flux for soldering- A comparison with PCBs from JLCPCB 🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡

the MX5200 just a posh weller magnastat iron ;-)

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to mention these, I used to use one of those stations many years ago.

@TheEmbeddedHobbyist

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics i still use one, the bit has to be 30 years old and still going.

Hi Steve, I have Pace ADS200 and I can lend it to you if you want to do a shoot out. I have all performance tips. Let me know

And exist a green grip for the handle wath desepaite the temperature

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I think the most recent ones we bought at work came with a green foam sleeve for the JBC

@rdp8545

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Yes correct. My JBC which is only a few months old has the foam sleeve and never gets hot.

mx5200 STTC 017/117/817?

@sdgelectronics

2 жыл бұрын

The 117 is ideal for most types of solder.

Try the Jbc CD-2BQE station .

@rjordans

3 жыл бұрын

I have one and it's great indeed. Quite an investment though for a hobby user but worth the money if you are regularly soldering

@andreiciora2765

3 жыл бұрын

@@rjordans you have good Point

@andreiciora2765

3 жыл бұрын

@@rjordans and the tips are very expensive

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

I was looking at the JBC DDE-2C with a T245 handpiece, but I will consider the CD-2BQF. The CDE-2SQA will be ordered the moment it's released, but it's been delayed over 2 years already and still no release date. I would guess they're having trouble with the validation process

@andreiciora2765

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics but the jbc CD-2BQE is compatibile with t 245 and t 210 .

Try fx 951 , pace ads 200 , jbc CD-2BQE and weller

BTW, what exactly is your day job if you don't mind sharing?

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

Systems design engineer for medical products mainly.

@nilomyki

3 жыл бұрын

@@sdgelectronics Oh thats fantastic. Thanks for sharing.

Higher Price has nothing to do with it Its just better engineering. For the Price cost Ill just stay with my Pace SensaTemp.

these are pretty expensive for a hobbyist

@sdgelectronics

3 жыл бұрын

True, possibly a one off purchase for a hobbyist so I'm hoping these videos help someone to avoid a mistake.

You are clearly NOT using a genuine JBC Station. That BST-933 is a copy of JBC and the tip you used is definitely not a JBC original tip.

@sdgelectronics

2 жыл бұрын

This is an original JBC tip supplied by our UK distributor. You can see the test with a JBC DDE in #216 with identical results.

Honestly, I am angry at Metcal for trying too hard to go mainstream through the backdoor. They have this proven, amazing technology of Curie point and then they put presumably large amounts of money to clumsly combine it into a new animal of PID controlled RF heating. And then put a thermal resistor on top of it. Just so that people can adjust the temperature. Tips economics I can understand from wear pov, but adjust temperature? Anything will melt at 320C. When you have zero inertia tip, the tip themal mass means nothing. Just decide what two or three tips you are going to use, choose your temperature and done. I know I comment two years after this was posted, but from what I see nothing will come close to the traditional Metcal Curie Point tips.