It performs really really well for me. Just used it for a half marathon and was shocked at how close the performance was to the Endorphin Elite/Vaporfly. Is it as quick as those? Maybe slightly slower, but we’re within a few seconds per mile. I’d agree that it doesn’t “feel” as fast but I kept checking my watch and was pleasantly surprised at the pace number for the effort I was giving. Well done, Saucony

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Fully agree. In my treating so far I’ve never felt fast or had that feeling that I was flying… but then I look at my data, especially based on the level of effort I knew I was putting down, and was impressed. This shoe is a quiet performer. I will also say, well done Saucony. 👍🏻

Very useful review Chris, thanks a lot. It seems that EP4 might be the one for my 3h30 attempt next autumn. They don't excite my mind the way Metaspeeds do, but they'd certainly be more forgiving with my wide-foot heel-striking. Must accept reality. I'm gonna try them soon.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

They definitely do. A total contrast to a Metaspeed in nearly every way. But still fast… the EP4 is surprisingly great.

this shoe feels very natural to me when I run in it. I think it’s my favorite of the super shoes but haven’t tried the Cielo x1 yet.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Agree, this she feels like a normal running shoe… with all the bells and whistles of a super shoe… but in a natural and normal package. That really is something special.

Ha, the Laces, I swapped mine out for a pair from my old VF2. Besides that no issues at all with this shoe. As an older, heel striker, 8 min/mile Marathon pace runner I finally feel I found the shoe for me. Yes, I feel faster in the Edge Paris or VF3 but the comfort and stability offered by the Pro 4 helps me to enjoy the run more and my legs thank me the evening and day after. I couldn’t run in the Saucony Pro 3, too narrow and too aggressive of a rocker, they destroyed my legs. The Pro 4 is an entirely different shoe with a much more comfortable upper, midsole and sole. One thing I don’t think you mentioned that I really enjoy is the new sewn in cushioned sock liner again more comfort, compare it to the one in the Adidas Pro 3 😂

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Totally agree on this shoe being a great comfort and stability option they performs! That is a rare mix. I know other reviewers talked about the sock line and Saucony made a thing about it… but I didn’t notice anything special. In fact the liner on my right shoe is glued in a little crooked and has a gap on the lateral side (not an issue but annoying). The sock lines from a top tier super shoe is much much better.

Absolutely loved my Pro 3s (400km) and set my marathon PB on it twice! It's an everyday runner supershoe. Can't wait to get the Pro 4s. Sidenote: Did you manage to get the volt colourway of the Alphafly? Mass release now and most sizes are still sitting pretty much all websites here in UK.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

To my feet, based on a try on of the Pro 3s in store...they are a massive upgrade. Taken just as the pro 4, no other context, it's a very natural and fast shoe. Very well considered (minus the bootie upper and laces, 🤣)

sick colorway!!

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

For a Saucony… it’s pretty good.

Looking your recomendation

@SagasuRunning

Ай бұрын

👍🏻

I own a pair of Endorphin Pro 4! Bought this for my marathon at year end. I have flat feet: my legs can withstand Vaporfly in shorter races, but not at marathon PB pace - tarsal tunnel syndrome would kick in. The wider base, and relatively stable Endorphin Pro 4 suits me at marathon distance.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Good to hear that. The EP4 definitely is very different than the other super shoes in that it can actually support a runner like you. It’s great that it is out there for that!

Think ill give this a go. Had the adios pro 3 but getting horrific blisters in my achilles

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

This would be my recommendation. Good choice. Enjoy them.

Ive been using this since Late 2022. very propulsive and light! But I hated the laces

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

So the laces have always been an issue. Noted!

If I have the Superblast and the Edge Paris is there really a place for this for me? I maniky do 5k and 10k woth the odd hakf thrown in. I could see this would be good for longer distances.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Nope. You are good. I am going to talk about how I think the EP4 pairs nicely with the SB in another video… but if you have a MSEP already, that is a much better shoe. No need for this one.

I recently did my first marathon at 3:30 in Speed 3’s and wondering if I should get these for the balance of stability and performance, or if I should go for the Adios Pro 3 for my next marathon. I felt the Speed 3 really didn’t protect my legs beyond 34km, and I’m a small, light runner. I’m a midfoot striker and pronator, I’ll likely try both but leaning to AP3, as I race half marathons in the Sky+.

@SagasuRunning

Ай бұрын

As long as your pronation is mild I'd recommend the AP3. If you need a little support on the medial side go EP4. The AP3 is the much faster shoe.

Great video. But yeah have to disagree with the bootie upper comment. Love it in the Alphas. But that's why differing opinions are good to have.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

The bootie upper on the AF3 is a big reason I’ve not gone out of my way to get a pair. I just don’t want to deal with it. But yes, tons of options out there. That is a good thing.

It's a supershoe for runners above 5:00 min/km and that niche is not a niche, but the main chunk of the market

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Agree fundamentally here. The Pro 4 is likely the best super shoe for most runners out there racing a marathon, which is why I phrased the opener as I did.

@sts265

2 ай бұрын

Even better than the Cielo x1 and BN SC Elite v4? I have seen those as the more comfy “people’s champ”, price aside

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Very much. This one is simpler, more natural, better fit and runs like a normal running shoe…

I'm guessing Saucony wants to keep this shoe below the Endorphin Elite, and that's why it's not absolute top tier. I'll probably get a pair of Pro 4 at some point, because I really love the Pro 3. It feels like a supercharged Speed 2, and way more comfortable than the Speed 3. As a forefoot striker, I don't really care for the heel flair on the 4s, to me it looks like unnecessary weight.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I think you are right but it will be interesting to see how the two models evolve together. The EP4 and EE really are two different shoes, one is a low plate configuration and the other is a high plate configuration (respectively). That gives Saucony the same options as Nike and Asics… let’s see if they can afford to keep it. As a forefoot striker I also agree on the heel flair… but it’s a Saucony hallmark now, prioritizing heel/midfoot strikers… which is fine given all the options we have as forefoot strikers. It’s not like the EP4 doesn’t work for us… it’s just not optimized for us.

@davidg9120

2 ай бұрын

Both are great shoes but for me I prefer the endorphin pro 3 because the rocker on the 3 is a little more aggressive than the 4. As a reference I’m a slower heavier runner who is more mid to heal striker.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Interesting. I saw your Cielo x1 comment too and it makes sense.

@theghostofpcs2391

2 ай бұрын

@@davidg9120 Thanks for the input! I also really love the rocker on the Pro3, and I'm wondering if they did that because of the Pwrrun HG foam in the Pro 4.

Felt all the sensations but at 18:50 sadly my pinky toe on left foot only felt tight/rubbed a little, enough to worry me about potential problems, Really liked this shoe but had to pass because of the tapered or narrow toebox. The rest is excellent.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

The taper in the forefoot on Saucony shoes can be problematic for some. I don’t have any issues in the Pro 4 but felt a little bit of rubbing in the Speed 4. Also years ago in older Kinvaras I had similar issues. It’s a bummer when it happens.

I have ES3 and really love it for tempo. I want ESP4 for upcoming marathon race, are they the same size ? My ES3 is 42,5, can i use 42,5 on ESP4 ? I dont have a chance to try it.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I honestly don’t know as I never ran in the ES3. Though I did try them on, next to the ES4… and I would have bought the same size in the 3 as I did the 4.

@lorensiuswlt

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning thank you for your reply

The review I waited.. and wanted... and ah just perfect, except... I like those uppers and I even like the laces :( I do have the Pro4 and the Elite (as I said I work closely with Saucony so I get them with 30-50% discount, I also cant have enough shoes, ah you know the feeling better than anyone) ... I'm really not sure which shoe I will use for the Berlin marathon in September. I have heard a lot people say they are "too slow" for the Elite. I mean, as a 3:30-4h NPC runner I know I dont need a Elite, but its so funny to run in and I have the feeling it pushes me further in my "usual" performance... but then there is the simply amazing fit of the Pro4. I really really cant decide :( I also think one of the biggest ups for the Pro4 is that it is super durable for a so called supershoe. I think only the Adios Pro3 has a smiliar lifespan. That means: now that you are on board with Saucoy again, what about a review about the Elite?

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I see them as two different shoes, beyond the pace aspect. The Pro 4 is a low plate and the Elite is a high plate (well mid plate but it’s more similar)… don’t comes down to the feel you want under foot. Similar to the VF vs AF or the Metaspeeds. I will say that PWRRUN HG is a much better for as far as performance. I’d love to feel the Pro 4 with a full PWRRUN HG midsole. I agree though the current PWRRUN PB midsole is excellent for durability. That is huge for many runners for sure. It’s definitely a set and forget type of trainer/racer that you don’t need to baby at all. As for that upper and those laces… I’m glad some enjoy it… if it was that upper textile with a proper tongue the shoe will be ever better. I really do like the upper overall. Just not the bootie style design…. My big toes will also not allow it. I’m not going to cover the Elite… but I do plan on the Triumph 22 and if we actually do see and Elite 2 I will cover that one.

@Chungdol

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning According to rep this year there will no be Elite 2 just color updates. I think I'm just lucky with those uppers and such laces, the Li-Ning Feidian Elite 3 and 4 also do have that kind of upper and they fit like a dream to my feet. Ye, I think I have to try both shoes for some long runs to be sure. Just "afraid" to use the Elite and turns out its not for me. I cant run in Nikes Marathon shoes becase they are waaaay too unstable for me as midfoot runner, with Xteps its the same and the Asics were always too firm for me (which doesnt really make sense since I actually like the lightstrike pro, which is "more firm") and Li-Nings is like a firmer LS Pro with more energy return. I was lucky to test the Triumph22 vs my Triumph20, while they ran the same I could definitely feel how the 22 distributed the load on my knees a lot better than the 20. Definitely an improvement. Logical improvement to the EP5 would be more pwrrun HG or an entire pwrrun HG midsole Thank your for this amazing review

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

@Chungdol Well then… looks like the T22 will be the only other Saucony shoe I cover this year. However that rounds out quite a good full rotation. The next Saucony video on the channel, midweek as I have some others coming first (busy month!) will be my thoughts on both the ES4&EP4, how they compare, building rotations and what is likely to to see in the future of both. I noticed they the Chinese brands mostly use bootie uppers. Ugh. Asics FFTurbo was very harsh to my legs, low energy return as well, FFTurbo+ is much much better. LSP feels firmer to me overall but the energy return is so good I can handle it. I may need to adjust my impressions and foam matrix as LSP seems to be getting softer in recent shoes.

@Chungdol

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning Yep, thats true! Running more in Li-Nings they are definitely on the firmer end of the spectrum, but the energy return, I swear, its out of this world, at 4:30 pace or faster they start to do a symphonie. But way too firm for me for an entire marathon... also I'm too fat and slow for them, mainly too slow. The Saucony Hurrican 24 is also coming out in June (I believe) its a better Hoka Bondi. Its so soft, you always have the feeling you step in mud, but kinda stable. Will be my shoe I wear for standing all day. The new ON marathon shoe would be interessting for you for sure. It is finally soft enough for a full marathon (its actually really mushy) and the orthotic inlay of the shoe is something I have never seen in a running shoe and definitely something new. Coming in Fall or so...

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I saw the Hurricane… that is exactly the type of shoe I’d never buy or try… hahah. Hoka Bondi is about as far from my taste in shoes as it gets. Actually the Hoka Skyward bay have moved the bar further away. 🤣 I want to jump back into On… I actually ran in Ons quite a bit in 2018/19. But I have to say, there recent models and their upcoming super shoes are making more and more I interested…

The say this is a long shoe, I normally wear size 8 US Mens on the NB4 and SB, should I go with the same size or half size down with these

@SagasuRunning

Ай бұрын

I went TTS and didn’t notice this being any longer than either of the shoes you mentioned. I wear the same size in all three.

@RWG0914

Ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning thank you for your help

Ha that colorway reminds me of my late 90s saucony grid trainers. 😂

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I had to Google those… interesting. I see it for the 2000 model year…

@tav4755

2 ай бұрын

@SagasuRunning youre probably right, been running so long lost track of all those years and shoes.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

They are blur into one shoe in our heads eventually. 😂

The price is certainly up there with the top tier. If they priced it a bit less it would be a jackpot.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

It's $25-50+ USD less than the top tier, that makes a difference. If they could get this under $200, I agree...but it's not going to happen anytime soon. The Endorphin Speed 4 is still there...for now.

@justoutlaw6423

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning Dame price as the Asics Paris Series and Adios Pro 3 here. Saucony never has discounts like other brands here in EU, at least in my country. But, according to your review it could fit my midfoot/heel style and wider foot. Any other option with normal to wider forefoot and midfoot/heel striking?

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Honestly, there aren’t many. The Adidas Adios Pro 3 would be the only other option… but the Endorphin Pro 4 is significantly better for heel strikers. You could also look at the Hoka super shoes… but they are a handful.

@justoutlaw6423

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning Thanks.

Speed 4 or SB for first HM? I got my race in 5 days :D. Just looking to finish around 2hrs which is basically my easy pace.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Well... if your easy pace you'll have a much better time in the Speed 4, it is much more forgiving for that type of running. The Pro 4 has a big sweet spot, but it not for dedicated easy pace.

@TheValonquar

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning thanks. Although I meant vs Superblastb😁

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Well… that’s a much different question… haha. The SB is going to be a little faster and a little more structured for a half. It’s what I would pick frugally between the ES4 and SB.

@TheValonquar

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning Appreciate your input as always. Great content btw you will eventually explode in popularity.

@kevinlevinson9512

2 ай бұрын

Hope I don't sound stupid. But what's the best trainer for everyday runs but also can be used for my first half marathon.

Love your content but I have to disagree about booty uppers I personally love them . First nothing to adjust other than lace pressure and second my most favorite shoe to this point is the alphafly 1 and the booty on that shoe for me is fantastic. I have a little over 100 miles in the endorphin pro 4 and it took some breaking in for me and also agree with your overall review

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

My big toenail on my right foot is still messed up from the AF1 almost years later. I even had two sizes of AF2s and went through MANY sock options (and hick, this, grippy, etc) and could never get a none toe killing fit in them. I had a Salomon trial shoe a while back that had the same issue with the bootie upper. My foot has a high arch and is high volume so it often takes a proper tongue to dial in fit for me.

@brianreiter5572

2 ай бұрын

My big toenail is still messed up from kicking a sapling stump and taking a tumble when running flat out on a cross country race maybe 6 or 7 years ago. ASICS GEL-DS Racer was literally bloody and I lost that toenail but I also really traumatized the nail bed. To this day it doss not grow properly. In this case it was operator error and not the fault of the shoe.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Yup… that’s what the AF1 did to my right big toe nail bed… really traumatized it and it’s never grown back right. It’s a mess actually… thanks Alphafly. My left big toenail is janky too, though not as bad… that is thanks to the AF2. My toes have always been a mess from years of snowboarding and skateboarding… but running has been the real killer.

@brianreiter5572

2 ай бұрын

I think you are right about the bootie construction being non-optimal. I am struggling to think of a boogie upper that was not a regression. The 2nd Vaporfly 4% switching to a bootie was worse than the original, for example. Maybe the least bad bootie I have experienced is the La Sportiva Kaptiva but that one also has taken my toenails in a mountain ultra.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

@brianreiter5572 Ya, the Nike flyknit uppers Circa 2014-2018’ish… were rough.

How would you compare this to Hoka Cielo?

@davidg9120

2 ай бұрын

For me the cielo is much less stable walking and a little less stable at slow paces. Cielo is a little softer/bouncier heal. This shoe for me is more middle of the pack in terms of softness. I actually prefer the cielo for my long runs. The reason is I tend to prefer softer foams as I’m a slower / heavier runner. The pro 4 is more normal feeling shoe than the cielo. Just my 2 cents. For reference I’m a slower heavier runner.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I would agree with this. The Pro 4 is much more “normal” feeling. Less bouncy and less dynamic… which isn’t a bad thing at all. The Cielo x1 can be a handful.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

I’ve only had the Cielo x1 on my feet in the Hoka store and jogged on a treadmill… but it’s a handful. Soft and bouncy and a bit all over the place. Literally everything I dislike in a shoe, especially a super shoe. The Pro 4 is much more stable and normal feeling.

Vs. Sc elite v4 !

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

The SC Elite v4 was an instant HARD pass for me. The fit was awful, the upper horrible, the foam was way too soft and the shoe felt my a clown shoe on my foot. No possible way I’d buy it or run in it… sorry.

@theghostofpcs2391

2 ай бұрын

@@SagasuRunning I'm a big New Balance fan, but even I really don't see the appeal of the SC Elite v4. I love me a soft, bouncy shoe, but at 280 euro (only the Alphafly 3 is more expensive), it should at least have that wow factor. Everyone praises it for being a definite upgrade on the v3, super comfortable, etc., but no-one actually wants to race in them... Anyone who wants comfort from New Balance, can just use the v3, or the SC Trainer v1/v2 (the v2 is also grossly overpriced at 230 euro). Just for comparison: the Endorphin Pro 4 is 250.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

Agree FULLY with this comment!

There's no such thing as a "top tier" shoe absent the context of the runner. The shoe that is best for a 2:05 marathon runner could be bottom tier for a 3:30 runner. Frankly, if I had two shoes that showed the same efficiency for me, I'd race in the most normal feeling one.

@SagasuRunning

2 ай бұрын

In one sense I agree… everyone needs to find what works best for them. However, in a product context there definitely are tiers to super shoes that are very clear.