I worked the waterfront for several years. The scaler was used for heavy rust and made quick work of that. Sandblasters came afterwards and cleaned up the rest to get ready for paint.

@SuperSetright

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@brynyard

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed, us the right tool for the right job. But that doesn't make nice fancy headlines does it?

@jboone8561

2 жыл бұрын

Everyone read my mind.

@jwm6314

2 жыл бұрын

Was gonna say: these are two tools for two different applications that sometimes overlap. Like a box wrench or a socket? IDK. Either way, having both is beneficial and neither is too expensive to not have around if you're restoring things.

@SW-zu7ve

2 жыл бұрын

@@jwm6314 This is what's wrong with youtube. You get people who don't know what they are doing either claiming to teach or they make comparisons on things they know nothing or very little about that results in extremely skewed wrong information. In the mean time you have the youtuber who is actually professional who doesn't get view or hits because all the nobody armatures dilute the search making the real experts harder to find.

Needle guns are used for scaling off very heavy and thick rust, and for that purpose they are way faster than a sand blaster.

@HotAxleBox

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely, clue is in the name - Needle scaler! lol

@braddo1972

3 жыл бұрын

He was comparing apples and oranges

@andypate3820

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, two different tools for two different jobs. BTW, I was in the navy, the reason we used scalers is because the salt water quickly causes metal scale. Surface rust we just painted over cause they added rust inhibitors in the paint.

@ezekielpainter

3 жыл бұрын

As a NACE 2 with a painting background, yes indeed

@nickbragias1246

3 жыл бұрын

Spot on

Two tools for different jobs. The needle scaler is to remove heavy 'scaling' rust. The sand blaster is the finisher to get down to bare metal.

@jerseygamingtv3537

12 күн бұрын

i see the needle scaler wont do anything.. i straight forward to the sand blaster

Video starts at 4:00. Also for that project I would say a paint removal wheel would have been much faster than either of those. Especially if mounted on an angle grinder than a drill. You can remove in 2 seconds what took 2 minutes on the sand blaster. If you have lots of open space like this then use the paint stripper wheel. The other tools are mainly for internal detail work.

@ronmatthews1738

2 жыл бұрын

The moral of this story is that tools are designed for a specific purpose so find the best tool for the job you are doing and use it.

@peteryeung111

2 жыл бұрын

He's probably doing it for views. I totally agree with the grinder wheel method.

@Quinnjamin2020

2 жыл бұрын

That costs soooooo much more and he may not have electricity/generator

@glenmel78

2 жыл бұрын

@@Quinnjamin2020 he has an air compressor

@bonferoni6664

2 жыл бұрын

Polycarbide wheel for the open areas, sand blaster in the corners🙂

A needle scaler is used more on rough scale! Ie rust that is big and flaky, its also very useful for stick or flux core welding to clean off slag

I was an “impact surface abrasion technician” for a number of years. This test is not really correct as as others have said the needle gun is for heavy scaling. For example. Steel of iron that has seen much salt water for decades or a stock trailer chassis that has taken thousands of beasts on their last journey to the slaughter house. The layers of delaminating steel will just absorb the blast cleaning. Needle guns, lump hammers, cold chisels and even SDS drills with chisel attachments get the worst off. Then hit with an abrasive shot. Steel shot or copper slag. That blaster though looks like it wouldn’t clean the skin off rice pudding to be honest though. Still, good effort. Keep the videos coming.

@jamessheehan1045

2 жыл бұрын

"skin off a rice pudding" that's good, I like that. Can I use that? Jim

Others have mentioned the true use of the needle “scaler”. Another great use for the needle scaler is to knock scale off of welds, this also hammers the weld to cause the weld to relax and not pull the metal as much.

@ialone7487

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. Out side of that, I just angle grind alot, being cautious of where the welds are.

@SH19922x

2 жыл бұрын

This guys in the video is an idiot

@everettcalhoun8197

10 ай бұрын

Did you mean to equiax the grain structure by providing cold working to the weld area and HAZ thus reducing tension and compression. Just sayin'

Use the needle gun first to get most of the paint off, then use the sand blaster

@BariMusawwir

2 ай бұрын

thats the best bet, nail scaler to scale off big scales of paint and rust quickly and then blast with sand

Those are two different tools for two different jobs, you can't really compare them. If you had a decent blaster not a little hobby one you would find a world of difference too for that job. Mine feeds perfectly and holds a lot of sand so I can work much longer with out hassles.

@lukewarmwater6412

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, the scaler is more for removing welding slag . cant immagine it being any good for rust like what he is dealing with... I'd use a 4" grinder and a wire cup for what he is doing.

@thomasstuart6861

2 жыл бұрын

And the laser, where is it in this test?

@lukewarmwater6412

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasstuart6861 now there is a rust killer I want to own! unfortunately, those things cost more than a shuttle launch used to.

@markanthony3275

2 жыл бұрын

yeah...I know what you mean...the kind that you need an air supplied bee keepers hood and gloves. For that frame , I would take a grinder and grind all the flat sections with an 80 grit disc...and leave the nooks and crannies to the sand blaster.

@MrEh5

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasstuart6861 cheap laser system is $50 000 for a 40watt system.

I used the scaler a lot while working tankers, yours just didn't sound like it was adjusted correctly.. Also they are better suited to removing heavy scale rust, then finish with sandblasting before finishing. I believe both tools are well suited to their roles, but those roles are a bit different.

@motleypixel

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, used the needle guns on submarine bilges to chip off large deposits of rust. Then slathered it up with vactan (aka Naval Jelly).

@DatBoiOrly

2 жыл бұрын

i think its to do with the compressor not being able to have enough air to feed it. you need a stupidly high CFM to work a needle gun if it doesn't have that it won't work as well you can also tell the compressor isn't big enough because of the periodic stopping and starting.

@DatBoiOrly

2 жыл бұрын

@Rowan Brecknell yeah just did the calculations its roughly needed is 26 CFM with the needle gun and 10ft of hosing which is in the realms of 2 stage compressors. his is only a single pump probably why the needle gun isn't working because his compressor isn't big enough to run optimally.

@DatBoiOrly

2 жыл бұрын

@Rowan Brecknell if your looking for high CFM compressors for cheap go for the old army surplus compressors the ones with the scuba bottle tanks can produce that all day every day i picked mine up for $500 best bang for your buck.

@DatBoiOrly

2 жыл бұрын

@Rowan Brecknell the higher the CFM the higher the load needed hence you need more HP to work it

Navy vet. Plenty of needle gun experience. Also was lead PO of a sand blasting team in the yards during drydock. The Navy used needle gunning because it's cheap. Sand blasting with a real setup is easily the better option if you want it done fast and easier. Could do that whole trailer in our walk in booth probably 20-30 minutes total and it would be ready for the oven and powder coat.

Use the needle scaler on tools and equipment that have leftover concrete on their surfaces. it rocks. sand blaster has no chance. make sure your air pressure is adjusted correctly on the scaler so it will be more effective.

The needle scaler is designed for removing mill scale and weld slag, that's what it does best. It's not intended for rust removal and (of course) it doesn't perform well at that task.

@ImAManMann

2 жыл бұрын

It is actually intended for removing rust as well. There are SSPC specifications for cleaning with a needle gun. You can't expect to get sp1 or sp2 quality no a blast profile that some coatings spec out, but, there is an appropriate place for it when removing rust as well as scale slag etc.

Make sure TO NOT USE REGULAR SAND! I have a business that uses a sand blaster every day. You have to use glass bead or other appropriate blasting media. If not you will get silicosis, a lung disease. The only way you can use regular sand is with a high quality professional respirator/breathing apparatus. Please do not try to save money and use inadequate equipment. Your health is more valuable. Anyway, sand blasting, especially when properly set up/tuned is amazing. You can buy different grits resulting in different results and finishes.

I would've bought a 4” grinder with 36 grit sanding disks. These are what you've got though, so what I would've done doesn't matter. Sandblasters are great tools, good comparison video

@opie7afe

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, those kind of blasters are for small jobs, for large jobs need a pressure pot blaster or something along those lines...i would have done the same with a few 36 grit wheels for the flats and blaster in the corners

@TheSidneySmith

2 жыл бұрын

wire cup / wire wheel as the first attack with the grinder, then if you're not happy with how quick and smooth the surface is, come back with the flappy wheel.

When welding cast iron, after grinding your weld, hit it with a needle scaler and the repair almost disappears. Does a nice job of blending the surface. Also when detail grinding flash and excess cast off an engine block, the needle scaler does a great job of making everything blend in.

@dougshiner9180

2 жыл бұрын

The needle scaler if used straight after the weld is laid, not only removes the slight, but can also relieve the stresses in the joint like a series of tiny hammer blows..

@elbowomar2430

2 жыл бұрын

And reliving the stress of the weld so it doesn't crack

@dougshiner9180

2 жыл бұрын

I remember using a large needle gun on a large lump of concrete one day. After many hours, lo and behold, there was a truck chassis under it all. (Was formerly a cement agitator truck). The scaler was surprisingly gentle on the wiring and airlines as they had some give in them. The old hard concrete just peeled off in layers.

Just to echo what others have said, the needle scaler is used to remove heavy scaly rust. Just as you don’t use a hammer to drive screws, you don’t use a needle scaler for smooth powdery surface rust.

The needle scaler has its place on heavy rust with layers or chunks of rust that are leaving holes when the chunks are chipped off. Much of the time, that metal can still be used, and because the chunk of rust is removed the metal can be coated with paint or similar product and it will not continue to rust in those areas. The sandblaster has its place on surface rust but most of the time will not remove chunks of rust thus not stopping future rust under those chunks which will eventually fall off and leave rusty divots. They both have their own advantage. Sometimes, depending on the metal, both are useful since many rusty surfaces have a combination of the two types of rust. In the application this person was working, he had only shallow rust and the sandblaster was the better tool.

So the needle gun will remove mass, but not provide a finish. Sandblasting makes for a true finish(after a wipe down of course) So for a project like this, the needle gun would be the paint stripper and the sand the finisher. That way you use less of the $$ media. One method is left out in this video. Considering the type of surface being prepared, a 90 degree angle grinder would make short work for little cost to prepare the surface. Considering how open it is, a large 7-9" grinder could be used. A wire cup first to remove the majority of everything, followed by a flap disc to prepare most of the surface. Return with the sand blast to get into the corners and other hard to reach edges.

I used the needle scaler on a fire hydrant and it did a 97% perfect job getting into the lettering even. Have to hold it at a 90 degree angle to your work and you should adjust the recoil setting before starting. The sand blasring guy wanted over $400 I paid $97 harbor freight on the heavy duty model. Well worth it.

@ericschulze5641

2 жыл бұрын

Your not factoring in his labor insurance & having to deal with people who get it home and let it sit overnight and want it blasted again for free

Not a good comparison at all. That's like comparing a wrist watch to a wall clock. They both tell the time but for 2 different uses.

I mainly use a needle scaler for removing the slag from "MMA" (SMAW) arc weld beads. ALSO: You really should get an N99 particulate filter mask in addition to full eye protection for sand blasting. You don't want to get any more of that crap in your lungs than necessary.

If you are sifting your own sand one thing that will help is to put the sand in the oven at 250 degrees for an hour. The drier the sand the better it flows

As a professional welder, needle scalers are best for removing rust, paint and mill scale on smaller areas or straight lines for weld preparation. Sand blasters are way better for larger areas, paint prep etc. I absolutely love my scaler as I repair farm equipment now and then that is very rusty, and use thicker steel which usually has heavy mill scale that eats up grinding/sanding discs. As you also said, a scaler is LOUD good ear protection is a must lmao.

I use the scaler for knocking off old undercoating on automobile parts,works great.

The needle gun really shines on flaky rust scale.

Use the needle gun to remove bulk rust, paint, scale and then follow-up with the sand blaster.

As a young seaman in the Navy I earned plenty of experience with a needle gun chipping paint…right tool for the right job, they both have ups and downs.

An up-side to the needle scaler is you can reliably use a shop vac with it. Just get an extra crevice tool and cut a semi-circle into the end and cup below or above the scaler and it should get most of it.

This video taught me to keep buying Clean+Strip disc's for my angle grinder.

I bought a big bench top milling machine and converted it to CNC. The original finish had a thin layer of bondo covered with white paint. It was easy to chip and wasn't very durable. So in the conversion process, I disassembled everything and stripped it all down to bare castings. I used a cheap HF needle scaler and it made quick work of it. It took it down to clean iron. I removed over a gallon of old bondo and paint. I repainted it with some 2 part urethane paint and it is a lot better finish. About half way thru the process, my old compressor bit the dust and I couldn't get any rebuild parts for it anymore. So I had to buy a new compressor. I bought a Quincy QT-54 60 gallon and it supplied plenty of air for the air sucking scaler. There was a noticeable difference with the scaler using a better compressor. My old compressor was a 60 gallon oil-less type that was slow and noisy. Nice useful video. Beards give men the right to pee standing up.

Use the scaler first and finish with the blaster to clean it all up

@ward26102

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking.

@murdomacaskill9655

2 жыл бұрын

Me too

@ks-zc1jh

2 жыл бұрын

That's the way to do it when the rust is thick.

Try doing the sandblasting in an enclosed small shop. It makes a mess of everything. I use the needle scaler for big rust patches that I can then phosphate over and paint.

@jwagnermail

2 жыл бұрын

I think that application is where the needle scaler work fine. On an old frame like the one he was working on, the needles knock enough rust off, then a rust converter will take care of the rest. A good primer on top will be good enough, maybe not as good as the sandblaster, but it is an old frame, it isn't a classic car.

One word: "Silicosis'

Needle scalers aren’t designed for rust removal! They were designed for removing scale from castings and forgings as well as removing the flux from stick welding. They will remove heavy flaking rust, but you still need to remove all traced of rust if you don’t want it coming back under the new paint.

If you have a 3000+ pressure washer, you should try the hybrid pressure washer / sand blaster! Way better wet specially if thinner metal that can warp by heat of just media blasting. Use both needle gun for big scale to de bulk and then water blast. Also "GET PPE"!

I've ran both a dry ice blaster ($$$$) and a media blaster in a cabinet for a couple of years, and I'll take a media blaster any day. Once it's set up with the proper pressures, and media, it's versatile, cheap, and pretty consistent in the finished goods that it produces. Rust, oxides, corrosion, old tractor paint, it's the right tool for the job.

For what I need, a blaster is the end finish I require. Even with the PITA factor on media clogs. I will spend time getting my blaster to flow better, and I think I will be happier. Thanks for putting this out there!

They are 2 different tools for 2 different purposes. Needle guns are great for cleaning welds up and the premier tool for cleaning flux core welds. A sandblaster is for stripping to bare. I love picturing someone trying to strip a trailer with a needle gun going “there must be a better way “ 😂

I've had a needle scaler for years I only really use it for chipping the slag off of welding after arc welding that's all I really use it for it does a great job with that

I use the needle scaler on heavier corrosion, in preparation for a wire wheel or wire cup on an angle grinder. Before wire wheeling, i use wd40 and soak the object down the day before. It seems to help dig out stuck on rust. Any tight spots i use the siphon blaster with coal slag. I then wipe down and degrease. I'll follow up with with 80 grit on a 2 inch mini da. Wipe off again, then use Picklex 20 and a scuff pad. This will remove most remaining loose rust and stabilize the remaining stuck on rust. I'll finish with painting with Zero Rust paint, 2 or 3 coats. Thin it 10% lacquer thinner and spray with lvlp gun. The reason i do it this way, i don't have a large compressor to run a pressure pot blaster. It's yielded me excellent results.

The needle scaler isn't for taking paint down to metal, but rather for removing big chunks of material to get to a workable surface. I use it to remove thick undercoat in car restorations, a job that the sand blaster wouldn't touch, then I use a sand blaster to quickly finish the parts off once the bulk of the material has been removed.

Years ago there was no problem with sand blasting as far as the environment goes but in today's time it is illegal in most areas if you cannot reclaim or contain the blasting media.

At the shipyard we use scalers for large chunks of rust and for knocking slag off of welds before sandblast and paint. Saves on blasting media.

🤔 never seen a needle scaler used for rust. The application I know is for removing hardened concrete from metals. It’s super good for that. They ARE however really hard on the material. They take more or less everything off of aluminum, they also produce a very distinctive texture 🧐 if you’re into that.

Railroads also use need scales a lot on large metal parts to remove rust scale. Sand blasters perform best with dry medium as it offers less likelihood of clumping up leading to clogs. Also, the speed of a sandblasted will depend on numerous factors, including nozzle diameter and available air volume, as well as the type of medium being used. I deliver large volumes of garnet to the naval yards in Virginia, which seems to be their preferred method of removing rust and paint. On the other hand, bare rust can be removed with something as simple as baking soda. Crushed glass is good and maintains cutting ability when sifted and reused as a medium. It all depends on using the best medium for the task.

The Navy uses both. Which one depends on the application. A buddy borrowed my 12 horse, 4,000 PSI pressure washer and used it with a sand pick up to prep his Cat for painting, before shipping it to gold mining site way up north. Previously, he rented the big, commercial compressors to do that kind of work. They allowed him to do the job, but it took a lot of sand and made for a small dust storm. After using mine (water and sand combination), he said he'd never go back to the other way. He said he did a quick rinse, cranked up the heat in his hut, dried the Cat over night, and was able to prime and start painting the next day. You still wanted to wear a respirator, because the high pressure did toss a lot of vapor into the air and a little sand.

I've done both systems, Try putting a pressure regulator set at about 50 to 75 lbs using the needle scalar.Also you probably know to clear the suction hose on the sand blaster to shove the nozzle against the work piece. So glad to see you back, you have been missed.

My son in law is a research chemist, he gave me some phosphoric acid. Mixed 50-50 with water, painted on rust turns the rust into magnetite, magnetite cannot hold an oxygen molecule, so rust is cleared. I used this on my camper van, cured the small pieces of rust, just paint over.

Brevity is the soul of wit. Thank you.

Just reading the comments saved me ten minutes of my life!

Every DYI starts with the cheap. Industrial sand blaster with appropriate air could be done in a hour. Might even be cheaper when you consider the man hours and figuring out how to the cheap gun actually do work. Side note. My daughter likes to pick up old rusty railroad spikes to paint. She wanted me to clean the rust off. Put sand in cement mixer and tumbled for 2 hours and worked perfect. Just make sure neighbor don’t mind the racket.

Most "blasters" have a concrete slab, just three walls and no roof. I used "big red" which is the pressure pot sandblaster specifically made to blast trailer frames, farm tractors, steel rims and other stuff. You need a 20 cfm 220v compressor and be dressed like a storm trooper. That trailer on a "rotary" would be done in under an hour. The slab allows you to sweep up the media and re-use it, plus no roof allows the small debris to "blow off."

1. Wear a dust mask; this isn't optional when sandblasting. Seriously. 2. Ear protection is advisable. Not wearing ear protection will result in hearing damage. Not immediately noticeable, but it's cumulative and once it's gone it's gone forever. 3. Safety glasses are also a must-have, and I would recommend a full face shield over them. Sand is no fun in eyes. 4. Get some proper blasting media, and also a compressor that can run the thing for more than 30 seconds at a time. 5. Learn what needle *scalers* are designed for. They work great for that. Sandblasting doesn't work so well for what scalers are actually designed for, and scalers don't work well for what sandblasters were designed for. Scaler to knock off the *scale* and chunky stuff, then sandblast (or wire brush, scotch brite, etc.).

I utilize both tools. The needle scaler works very well for when you just need to knock off the old paint, and do not want to get sand into port holes or the inside. Nice demonstration!

I work in a factory that build transmissions. I can tell you that just because products are built in the same factory that does not mean same quality. Some builds look exactly the same but seals or bearings will be larger. Or other small changes can change a product. That’s what the entire aftermarket industry is based on.

As a guy that works in construction I wanted to rehabilitate my cement mixer after labourers failed to clean it out well (repeatedly) The needle scaler eats thick rust and dirt and cement like nothing Whereas sandblasting takes twice as long Naw the cement mixer had a plastic barrel so the needle scaler was obviously the only real option to keep a good clean job without damaging the barrel but a sandblaster is better in other areas like basic rust and paint removal where overspray isn’t as concerning Besides I rather save my needle guns for my welding

Your problem with feed on the sand is moisture. Your compressor makes it and your sand loves to soak it up and stick together That is the problem that I had once I dried the air up it worked great

@BillHartCooks.

3 жыл бұрын

Yup.

@nickbragias1246

3 жыл бұрын

Bigger nozzle perhaps

Thank you for the straight forward side by sides!! Really appreciate it

I would have liked a mention of air requirements. I don't expect your average diyer has a large enough compressor for either.

In case you didn't know judging by the comments but that needle blaster is for heavy scale. Evapo-rust is an amazing product. Safe on the body, doesn't attack metal and protects the metal after its settled in. I purchased some to break free the mirrors on my bullnose and decided to try on my bumper. The bumper itself has holes drilled for round spot lights and were all rusted out; a quick spray and a wipe with a paper towel removed 90% of the rust and 6 months later the rust hasn't returned

*You should Look Into a Pressure Washer Sandblasting attachment* I find it's VERY Quick And BEST way to do it!!

@redneckmexican

3 жыл бұрын

I was going to say this also!!!

@adhamcoughlin4819

3 жыл бұрын

It likes to clog up easy though

@TheLoiteringKid

2 жыл бұрын

Still required in many area's to at lest prevent the runoff from leaving your property, and definitely don't let it run into the storm drain.

The needle gun takes off thick rust scale that the sand blaster will not shift (working on a 45 degree angle with it is usually better than head on), the sand blaster leaves a nice finish for paint to key into though - depends what you are trying to move as to which is best for the job.

I always used both on frames and heavy metal. Needle scaler for paint and heavy rust, then cleaned up the mess and finished with the sand blaster. Set up a canopy and put down a tarp, swept up and reused the sand at least once. I know you speeded up the video but I never danced around. Slow even movement keeping the sand cleaning a wide path side to side.Did several frames, great results

Adjust your air pressure to get the best suction on the sand hose. 80psi works best on mine. If you go too high on air pressure the suction is reduced due to back pressure at the nozzle & you get less sand. You need at least a 5 hp air compressor to keep up with it. Blasting with too low a pressure is a waste of time. The sand you use makes a difference too.

Needle SCALER was made to remove SCALE from hot rolled steel ...but as described by you and others can be effective for several other jobs. Didnt see mentioned but it is slightly effective for removing some stress from steel .....helps keep it from warping as bad.

Every situation is different. Scaler, blaster, discs, chemicals; judgment and experience will tell you which will be fastest, least destructive, and most appropriate for what you are attempting to achieve.

This is my current delema right now. Great video and thanks for the comparison. I’m about to restore/get running a ‘87 chev square body it has heavy rust flake on the frame so needle would be good but rest with the sand. 👍🇨🇦

@phillipvansickle4220

2 жыл бұрын

If you are going to take it down to the frame, send it out to a blasting service. Don't waste your time with a tiny little blasting gun. A guy with the right commercial blasting setup can have a truck frame and a bunch of other stuff done in an hour. Did this with my '68 C10's frame.

Both tools have their time and place , needle gun and air blower for layers of paint and major rust jacking , then sand blast to finish the metals to a clean and very grippy for new primer and paint , heat your sand or garnet to prevent it gaining moisture and sticking together

I'm a Navy Vet, a bilge snipe. After forty years I still have those tingles up my spine!?

Not seen this mentioned, so, I found that with the sand blasting material it had to 1). Be dry. 2). At a level equal too or slightly above the level I was going to use the sand blaster at, with no dips or bellies in the feed tube. I did not find the needle gun at all effective on thin layers of paint or surface rust, but, knocking cement of old bricks I wanted to reuse it was amazing!

I used a 80 lbs Hopper/ sandblaster for years on Auto restoration jobs ! Unless you have at least 5 Hp electric compressor! It’s a stroke show ! For large frame jobs we sent them out to a company with a 10 hp electric and they’d have frame clean in about a hour !

22 years, retired Navy. Needle gun and wirebrush (pneumatic and manual) handle all but the tightest area's. Keep in mind Navy doesn't care about reducing man hours - got free labor.

Hey Zach... SAFETY...SAFETY...SAFETY. When media blasting or using a needle scaler I use goggle style glasses and a face shield on top of that. Second always use a fine particulate dust mask(M95) at a minimum, not a bandana. If you're taking off paint that is from 1978 or older it probably has lead in it. You're aerating that material and inhaling it... not smart. Third... Ear protection! Anyone who has used an air chisel or needle scaler knows better. I actually use foam ear plugs inside a set of ear muffs(yes, they are that load). As others have commented, a needle scaler is best at taking off scale, not fine surface rust. It's also great for heavy layers of paint. A needle scaler is also great for taking of thick crusty grease. Much easer than using a scraper and a dozen cans of brake clean. With a needle scaler you always need to follow up with a wire wheel or sand blaster to clean up the fine material still on your metal. With grease removal, finish with brake cleaner and rags. Other than that, great videos...

If you do this more than a little, get a larger compressor and sandblaster. Makes all the difference. HF makes hood that works great. You need to connect very low air pressure to it. About 5 psi or less. Keeps the sand out and helps keep you cool.

Having spent some time with the needlegun (as we call them) restoring a WW2 combat vessel, it's best against heavily layers or flaking paint, and wasted metal. But at least you can see what you're doing with one. The sand blaster would have an advantage in tight spaces where you can't fit the needlegun. In either case, working overhead is the worst. A friend and coworker cobbed together a little 3-needlegun 'dolly' for easier deck scaling. Yeah; noise x 3.

@mikeslatz1351

2 жыл бұрын

We used to duct tape a needlegun to a broomstick. At least you were off your knees for the deck and off a ladder for the overhead.

I use a needle gun to take out slag from a welded joint, and I use a sand blaster to get a finished surface to paint - two different types of jobs.

For heavy rust scale, needle gun, but on light rust, it peens the metal making it harder for paint to stick. Sand opens pores, better surface for painting. Some blasters can use wet media to keep dust down but can cause light surface rust while drying. Spread out plastic or tarp to reclaim media then filter through correct screen size for media to fit through nozzle. As nozzle wears, it becomes less efficient. Higher pressure (+/-200 psi) uses less sand but is dangerous...need heavy personal protection equipment and dead man nozzle. Can use dry builders sand, cheap but not as good as blasting media especially black as used in shipyards. Face mask with filters to keep silica out of lungs...hard to clear.

Well those tools have two different jobs. If you were using them correctly you would see they both have their use.

That's like buying a dump truck for drag racing and a Corvette to haul dirt. Also that is a bottom line scaler. Get a good one like Texas Pneumatic Tools to compare.

Being a retired merchant seaman and having spent 10 of thousands of hours on a needle gun that you where using it wrong. It must be held perpendicular to the surface in order to work well. I have seen plenty greenhorns hold it at an angle like its a chisel and it doesn't work right, and it will break the needles that way to. Also a needle guns peens the surface pounding tiny rust particles into the steel, but on a ship its more practical because you can't keep a lot of media with you, and media gets into wenches and other gear. A blasted surface is far better for priming and painting. But with that being said the best way is to get all the visible paint and rust with a needle gun and then just a light blasting to etch the surface and remove imbedded rust. even better after needle gunning use a flap sander where you can, and hard to reach areas with a blaster.

The two were not a waste of money. Scaler does what it says it does, scales away the thick rock rust that can build up. If you have light surface rust tho it won’t do much. The media blaster on the other hand does fine particulates of rust. The two combined make a perfect team for completely eliminating rust on steel.

A good rotary knotted wire brush! goes on angle grinder would take all the paint in less time and gives a good finish

It's called a needle scaler for a reason. it removes scale ie. flakey rust. weld slag, loose flaking paint, or the flakey build up of corrosion on metal from batteries. Not at all meant to remove surface rust. Not to mention it does dimple the metal when used.

Sand blaster= gonna need bigger compressor. Needle scaler cleans welding slag and heavy rust best.

The Needle Scaler is for paint and heavy rust scaling. It is not a great choice for surface rust. The sand blasting works great for surface rust. Paint however you need a courser agregate

@ZackOfAllTrades

4 ай бұрын

Yep, I now know that to be true. Thanks!

I Use the Needle Scaler on Old Stone Foundations to Remove Mortar.. it Works Great!

I feel ya! '60 Shasta Deluxe and '69 Play-Mor trailer owner here, I ended up buying 60 gallon compressor and fairly large sandblast pot to clean scale and rust.

I have a needle scaler to clean up tractor rims on the old tractors I work on. I will clean off the thick rust scale that builds up on a wheel under a inner tube.. I have a sandblaster that I follow up to clean up the cleaned surface. To each his own!

Both of those tools are far to small for what you want to use them for. I have both also but the media gun stay in my blast cabinet or (I have another) is used for smallish jobs that I can't put inti the cabinet such as blasting the corrosion off of suspension components so they cam more easily be removed. I have a much larger gun and compressor for BIG jobs. The media to are large degree can be recovered because I put a large tarp down to catch it all, then refilter is and reuse it. The descaler is primarily for large heavy rust that a blast gun would take much too long to cut through. My descaler is also a larger more powerful unit. Descalers are not for removing surface rust just large scale. The gun is them employed to finish the work. Another method you might consider is this" Make a container out of plywood that your large piece such as a trailer can put rolled into. Line the container with heavy plastic. Roll the trailer into one end of the box and secure the end cap and plastic. Fill the box with water making sure to cover all the metal you want de-rusted. Thoroughly mix in a few pounds of Calcium Carbonate (washing soda)to facilitate electricity. Hand anodes of rebar or old metal around the trailer, but not touching. The hook up a power source like a generator or mobile welder to the anodes and the trailer (which becomes the cathode) and turn on the juice. The reverse electrolysis will have all the rust off of the piece in a few hours. Pump the liquid into plastic barrels, filtering it as it goes. The trailer or other piece will be covered with a black coating which can them be easily scrubbed off. Something else you can use is a dustless wet blasting set up.

Needle scalers cannot get to the bottom of rusted pits but it does shift the big stuff. Grit blasting gets into the pits - if the grain size is small enough. Ideally use them both followed by a chemical rust stopper bird it’s primed.

Thanks. As a sailor who became much too intimate with the needle gun, but has no experience with the sandblaster, I think I'll buy myself a sandblaster... and rent a compressor, because the one I have barely keeps up with a paint gun.

Sandblasting is only necessary if you want to bring the surface down to the bare metal. If you just needle scale the surface then you can prime it with some Ospho and then Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer. I did the needle deal on my really rusty car trailer frame 10 years ago. Took less time than sandblasting, and much less money. Car trailer just now ready for that treatment again after ten years. So, if yer looking for the Mona Lisa, sandblast. If yer gonna work the sucker, needle scale. Have fun!

The needle gun is not as clean, but does provide a varied textured surface as a casting might display... the sand blasting can provide a finer texture and a depth of removal based on time and type of media used. Each has its pros and cons.

@ZackOfAllTrades

3 жыл бұрын

Well said

The needle gun is meant for removing rust Scale, like chips of rust, not surface rust. So it removes the big scales of rust... then the sand blaster can take over from there.

Bro, The first time I used to be blaster was on my back patio. Afterwards I said they drink on the picnic table and it slid right off because of the little round beads, lol. It did a good job though and now I use a blast box but I didn’t even know this tool existed . I could use this needle thingy , thanks for sharing . I paint things all the time

After spending more than a couple years painting boats, I have to say that I've never used a needle gun. We knocked off heavy rust with a big hammer. I would say the needle gun is meant to replace swinging a large hammer to remove heavy rust scale or cleaning up welds. The needle gun is faster than a chipping hammer.

Needle scalers are designed to quickly remove loose paint that is bubbling up away from a surface and heavy rust that is also lifting away from the surface forming scales. But they suck at removing paint that is still firmly attached to the surface and fine rust stuck to the surface. Sand blasters are designed to remove paint still firmly attached to the surface and fine rust stuck to the surface. But they suck at removing heavy but loose paint and heavy rust scales. In the case of the first comparison, using the scaler first and then the sand blaster is best. In the case of the second comparison, only the sand blaster would be needed. Depends on just how good a job you are willing to put out the effort to do.

I have a truck that had a heavy rust scale on the frame. A needle scaler worked very well to knock the scale off. It does not remove all the rust. I painted over that with a paint called Agri Guard sold by a company in Wisconsin. So far no rust has appeared in the past 2 years. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Yeah absolutely they all come from the same factory; if it's from China. The $123 snap on model is indeed the same model sold by HF for 28 bucks. It's not like this isn't extremely common and widely known. On the other hand, if you buy say a $600 high end Chicago Pneumatic scaler, it will most likely come from a factory in the UK and is completely different. Likewise, buy an SP, it'll come from Japan.