1. How long was the can in the oven and at what temp. 2. how many hours did you get in heat with this experiment?

I did a cooler like this for my chickens when we lived in Texas. Used frozen 1 gallon jugs, rotated then every day. I had a 15 watt solar panel on the coop roof to power the fan

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

perfect. i use the 15 watters all the time. the fan is about 10 watts so it works great. i figured people might like seeing that cooler after all these years.

@bobcole3852

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 I actually used an old cooler (Igloo) because it was insulated and kept the gallon jugs from melting so fast. I used 90 degree elbows to direct the air sideways under their raised coop and guess where they spent their afternoons...

@stevebreedlove9760

Жыл бұрын

@@bobcole3852 great feedback. I also have a raised coop and planned on building something like one of the coolers for keeping them cool when temps settle above 100F

Might be worth building a rocket stove outside and heating cans on that and rotating them. Lots of variables here but thanks for the ideas you come up with.

With your great ideas, we're gonna make it through this. Thanks a million 😁🔥⬆️

This gives me an idea of making a dehydrator with it for some reason. Great options!

That's brilliant! I bet if you had holes in the bottom of the bucket and an elbow vent out the top, the thermal heat would create it's own flow from the bottom out the top, to eliminate the need for a fan or electricity.

@cavelvlan25

Жыл бұрын

Or one if the thermoelectric fans I'm sure they could be designed as centrifugal blower.

@billyjones9045

Жыл бұрын

I made almost the exact same thing but as an air conditioner with water and ice

@emilyrolley9996

9 ай бұрын

Any type of sand?

@webidentity6138

7 ай бұрын

Bro right on it’s just a mini earth battery

@Laurel-Crowned

6 ай бұрын

I'm building one now out of an old water heater which has a pipe running threw the middle that was for exhaust fumes. I was planning to use a couple electric wh elements but now I'm considering either dryer wire or some stove burners but I'm using crushed glass instead of sand

I been using a sand battery for a couple of years now mine are a little larger. After we finish canning for the year the pressure canner gets a new task. The biggest thing I have learned is to add water to the sand the air space in the sand battery waste a lot of time heating up the entire mass. As the water starts to evaporate the air gaps in the top few inches slows down the heat loss for a much longer lasting source of heat. Sizing matters just like solar panels and battery's.Great video.

@desertsun02

5 ай бұрын

hi. i hadn't thought of adding water. sounds like something i'll experiment with 🙂✔

Good job! Reminds me of a guy who made a very similar contraption filled with home made charcoal so his was an air filter. I could totally see the combination of both

Another great idea! You keep amazing me! Thanks for all these great ideas. I'd like to try this one too.

Excellent idea and work! Congratulations for your video!😀

Really enjoy all of your ideas. They are very doable and useful. Thank you!

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

Glad you like them!

This would work great with a invective cook pot convection hot plate. The good thing about that once the heat absorption of the sand started to max out for the thermostat on the hot plate it will automatically shut of. But the cooling fan would run long as the pot was hot. Still be a safe way to heat and very good energy exchange for electric power. 👍 👍

Living in Phoenix, I could just put a couple of these outside and store energy. Brilliant

Thank you for this great idea. Can you tell me why the holes aren't all the same diameter?

Well done sir! Awesome project.

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

thanks you!

Man, you are full of awesome ideas!

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

thank you!

@terryl858

Жыл бұрын

Thanking you

Genius. How do you come up with this stuff. You should write a book of your ideas/builds.

Sweet man, that is fantastic!!!!

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

great simply design that anyone can do!

It also be cool to use a solar aggregator to heat the sand battery.

Lots of others such as yourself are using plastic buckets,metal pails, tin cans etc for the sand containers. What if you used a double wall vacuum insulated wide mouth thermos or food warmer as your container and then Impeded those ptc heaters or a 12v heat element in the sand?IDK how big of a vessel you could find but this would drastically reduce heat while heating and allow the sand to heat up faster I assume. Then maybe insert ceramic cup of water to test the boiling time or put some beans in it,cover it tightly and thermal cook them over 4 to 6 hours.Heck you could use a temp control switch to regulate the temp within a narrow "cooking" range ala a hot water heater does. Then the excess solar can do other work while the duty cycle is in the off status, like charging batteries,etc F

Dutch oven, construction sand (not silica sand). Heat on a fire for a few hours. Bring inside and it will radiate heat for a long time. No fan or electric needed. BUT you could use a wood stove fan (makes it's own electricity) to move air.

@frostyfrances4700

Жыл бұрын

Would it be better to put bricks or sand in the dutch oven? This is beginning to sound almost simple enough for me to do. Will bricks explode as easily as I've heard rocks can do?

@martintokinaga5261

8 ай бұрын

Maybe to set it up in a more convenient way so that I don't have to bring a few dozen kilos of sand into the house everyday.

Yes! Awesome idea. Just put on a quiet fan and this thing can be placed at the foot of your bed to heat your toes. 🎉🎉🎉

I'm wondering how long the heat is available. Does it last for hours? Or since the fan is aggressively moving the air into the room, does it only last a short time. I guess the variables include: Volume of sand, speed of fan, temperature when starting, size of room, initial room temperature, number and size of copper conductors, and many others. Very interesting project! As usual. Thanks for all your great projects!

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. yes all those variables plus how hot you get the sand and if you heat it all the way to its core. you should get hours if it's hot to the core. fan speed will matter a lot too. fan in video is actually overly strong it could be slowed down quite a bit for longer run time before needing to recharge the battery. you might be able to even use a couple of computer case fans instead of the single auto fan.

@danceswithbadgers4024

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 Hi there, i wonder could you use copper pipe instead of plate, maybe 1 inch, arranged for want of a better phrase, like a gattling barrel, stuffed with scrap copper thin wire,or even stainless wire wool?

@donaldburton2924

Жыл бұрын

Great Question ⁉️

@l0I0I0I0

Жыл бұрын

@@danceswithbadgers4024 Actually that's a good idea 💡! Ty!

@danielabrahams4061

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisYesChris Yes, the amount of heat you put into the battery has a limit as to how much air it can heat. If you want to heat a whole room by 20 degrees celsius for 8 hours you need a fair amount of sand. Conservation of energy still applies :)

Also, maybe adapt for use with stove top fans that run on heat to avoid electic requirement.

@richardprofit6363

Жыл бұрын

just saw a video where a guy did exactly that..sorry, don't remember title, etc..

It would be interesting to the sand battery heat storage temperature graph over time. If you had multiple stand batteries, could you maintain a comfortable temperature overnight? At what atmospheric temperatures?

@gf3803

Жыл бұрын

Definitely need this info to gauge how useful this is.

Have an idea. Place magnets on the fan, with it closer to the copper. That'll interact with the copper, creating additional heat. Like they do heating water from a spinning magnetic plate against a copper pipe of water.

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

i hadn't thought about magnets. i'll give that some thought.

@AShroudOfTruth

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 Yes! Please do.

@terryl858

Жыл бұрын

Great idea

Awesome mate great video. How long does it take to get to temp on the stove or oven and what sand temp are you aiming for before you use it? I was thinking about some old steam boiler designs where there's loads of tubes through the firebox which heats the water quicker than having a big container of water over a fire. What if we used a few pipes of copper through the sand and put the fan under the bucket blowing air through the pipes then as they come out the top, direct the air forward. It could be done top to bottom too. A bit like what the outsider did with his mini cabin heater but using sand instead of candles and with multiple pipes.

@robmerrill3460

6 ай бұрын

Insulate the bucket to maintain heat longer, has potential

The copper sheet metal is probably overkill and the heat is gonna cause rapid oxidation. You mention aluminum, and If you went with scrap heat sinks I bet it would save some money especially if you scale this up a bit. I really like this design, by the way. Very simple, but also looks like it performs very well! Great work!

Intersecting idea. I guess a better airflow diffusion could be obtained with a 100mm/120mm PVC elbow breathing horizontally at the copper's band leve/output tubesl. Cheers from France.

I would like to see you use the PCT heat elements you used previously incorporated into this design. I would imagine that the solar powered setup used previously would work here in this setup. Looks very interesting. I have been thinking about ways to build something similar. Thanks for the ideas. ☀️⚡️

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi there. i'm on it (it's my next video). it'll show at least 5 new sand batteries (all being heated with 12v PTC ceramic heating stones). the units will be able to be hooked to solar panels, wind turbines or batteries.

@desballard2614

Жыл бұрын

That is exactly what I was going to say. I've used the PTC elements in a few experiments and I love them!

@clintgarrett330

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 are you going to try the sand batteries with the heating elements in this setup? I'd be really interested to see how that turns out.

TY for updates sand bucket heating option-love option of the copper as core heating to promote increased temp or longer duration? If no electric fan available would the thermal fam work? Trying to plan for worse case scenarios if power loss in remote (to me) safe place…

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi there. i couldn't figure out a way to use a thermal fan with this project but you could always use DC fan.

@JayGoldbergExists

Жыл бұрын

That should work, but the thermal fan needs to be half inside the bucket and half outside to get the proper differential.

That's genius.

Thanking you

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi and you're welcome! 😎

awesome.God bless.

@desertsun02

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! You too!

I wonder if you could combined a sand battery with a masonry heater. Like a rocket mass heater but fill the inside of the bench chamber with sand all around the pipes. I think the sand would heat up hotter than the air and hold the heat longer maybe even 8 hours.

What’s the best practice for transferring the heated can from the oven to the bucket? Oven mitts or is there a better / easier way?

@teenermeener971

8 ай бұрын

I was thinking that same thing.

How long can these tests transmit temperatures above 30 degrees?

To get the heater element to stay on do I need a lower volt?

What about using your electric heating plates? The ones you use to make a stove. 12v?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi yes, absolutely! i started working on that video yesterday. i buried some of the 12vdc heating plates in the sand and got the fans running. they have a very low power requirement. sand up to 300F. those new heating plates were getting up to 470F (hottest ones i've ever had).

@JayGoldbergExists

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 Looking forward to this. Assuming the safety can be improved, it's an ideal, flexible system for taking excess solar PV and charging sand heaters for the cold evenings. I was considering something like a charcoal starter embedded in the sand.

Do you leave the copper strips in while heating, say in an oven? I would think it would help heat the core quicker that way.

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

i do (but you could add them later)

Could you pump the air directly through the sand?

really amazing i am asking i in north Africa i hope make it to heat chickens fans controlled by thermostat we suppose heat it by waste oil it can reach high degree can i use it days for incubation

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi there. sounds like a good use. 🙂👍

12v water tank heater coil buried in the sand powered by a few solar panels ????

Thank you for your videos! Can you use aluminum instead of the copper?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. aluminum might work well too. but make sure it's a thicker aluminum. some of that is sold in very thin sheets. also, aluminum does have a much lower melting point then copper, so you won't be able to really crack up the heat in the battery as much.

What kind of power is that resistor running?

People are using Crisco shortening as a long burn candle. I wonder if sand can capture those heat to higher temperature.

There are special fans designed to work simply by being seated on an AGA oven... recommend you look at their design...thus your heated bucket ventilates without tedious cables,batteries.

It's a swamp cooler/heater combo

By having the fane on the top blowing down on the sand will cool it down quicker. It would be better to have the fan on the side, It will still cool down but not as quick.

Could you use a redesigned heat fan to push the air instead of an electric powered one

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. yes, that may be possible. i'd have to think about how to do it.

How long did your version pump out heat for?

Did you heat the battery with the copper?

Wow !! Really neat!! So is that like about 1 pound of sand at close to 500F giving off 90F heat - for about how long before gets down to room temperature or 75 -70F? (Rough calc/ guess 4 hours? Or shorter ? Or Longer?). Thanks!!!

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. i didn't do detailed timed tests so i couldn't say for sure (but it did last well through the filming of the video). it will depend a lot on how hot you get the sand and if you heat it all the way to the core. how fast you run the fan matters quite a bit too.

How did you move the sand battery from the heat source to inside the bucket?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

very carefully (with gloves)

So, let me ask It only works after it comes out of the then, correct? The can is something obtainable, but where would you suggest getting the copper or aluminum pieces? Looks like a great idea, especially since parts of town had lost power for a few days already this year Any help or comments would be appreciated Thank you

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. you can get copper and aluminum at the home stores. aluminum will be easier to find. you could possibly use aluminum flashing but make sure it's a relatively thick metal. for the copper i would try ebay, or amazon, and maybe aliexpress. i got it a couple of years ago on either amazon or ebay

@tompotts1902

Жыл бұрын

@desertsun02 thank you for taking the time to respond. It is much appreciated. I will be looking into this now.

@stripeytawney822

Жыл бұрын

@@tompotts1902 copper tubing pounded flat with a beater. New or scrapped plumbing. Hit the recycling yard. Lot of recycler shops sell by the pound.

So how long would it stay hot for

why not fill in around the can with sand and add a heating element in the can and hook to a solar system?

🌿🧠🌿Thank You 🌿Will Share🌿🌿🌿👑GOD BLESS🌿

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

you're welcome! and thanks for sharing it! (that is the number one way videos are seen these days)

whats the best sand battery youve made or seen so far?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. that's hard to say. the best ones i've seen are the ones that that finish company is working with. i hear they are making a huge (stadium) size one.

How long will it heat

Spinning magnet on copper aluminum get hot too

I'm trying to understand the advantage here over just running the heating element???

@bikingcat3283

9 ай бұрын

Rolling blackouts, temporary power failures. I have big blocks of ice in freezer and a battery powered ice air cooler ready to go. I hang clear plastic to make a cubby hole and can stay cool for 12 hours. Laptop, UPS with modified marine battery, cell phone with mobile hotspot.

Put aluminium downpipe down through a large steel container and run a nichrome heating element in it suspended by metal poles/wires with ceramic at the contact points then fill with and and insulate the outside. Hook it up to solar panels to heat it up (don't even need an inverter or regulator) and pump air through the tubes to get hot air. If you don't want to bother with nichrome you can just use hotplate heating elements embedded at regular intervals when filling with sand.

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

sounds like some interesting ideas. i've been looking into making a heating element with nichrome wire.

@TheHuntermj

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 I wasn't clear on my comment, the nichrome is running through the sand isolated from the container and the downpipe, the downpipe is to pump air through to extract heat for heating.

how long does the heat last

Wow

How about using Alumnium in place of the copper?

@RandomStuff-dl1gd

10 ай бұрын

Copper is a better heat conductor

I like this, so hopefully this doesn't come across in a negative way. Sand has poor specific heat capacity compared to water, so even though your sand can get to double the temperature of water it stores less heat. For my own purposes I am considering a pot of water on the woodstove carried out to my workshop. Problems with water are the temperature limitations (no hotter than 100C, also freezing is an issue), leaks, humidity... perhaps your sand battery would be great for cooking or where water is difficult to handle?

@robmerrill3460

6 ай бұрын

Perhaps mixing a better heat storing aggregate with the sand?

@anatineduo4289

6 ай бұрын

It's so hard to beat water for specific heat capacity unless temperatures required are above boiling@@robmerrill3460

Cool, it works ty! How long does it last?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. it will depend a lot on how hot you get the sand and if you heat the sand battery all the way to its core.

@l0I0I0I0

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 so on a cold day just below freezing, perhaps 3 hours?

If I have some 1" copper pipe, can I cut it to length and use it instead of the copper sheets??

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. it's definitely worth trying. you'll have to experiment and see how well it works.

How long did you heat up the Sand battery for

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

i only partially heated it for the video. up to 300F and then up to 450F. i didn't test internal temps of battery though so i not sure of internal temp at it's core. main thing is to get it as hot as you can. the sand, steel and copper can all handle very high temps.

Can aluminium sheets be used to transfer heat instead of copper sheets? Aluminium sheets is way more cheaper.

@desertsun02

9 ай бұрын

hi. i haven't tried aluminum but it should work good too. (i think i've read that copper is about twice as good as aluminum but i can't confirm that)

Where did you get the metal container that you use

@desertsun02

8 ай бұрын

hi. it's from walmart. that metal container is what they call a "number 10" can. they sell lots of different things in them. sauces, beans, mushrooms, white hominy, and coffee (just to name a few things).

Could a fish tank heater be used instead of placing it in oven?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. the issue with that is they only get up to about 96F (35 to 36C). the sand would be warm but not hot.

How long does the heat last with your design ?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. it varies widely (depending on how hot you get the sand and if you heat the 'sand battery' all the way to its core).

What are.the pipes u use to put in the holes

@desertsun02

6 ай бұрын

hi. they are abs plastic pipe 'fittings'. if you search for abs plastic pipe fittings or (couplers/adapters) you'll see them. stores like home depot sell them.

So how often are you firing up the oven to heat the sand?

@desertsun02

6 ай бұрын

hi. i used oven to heat the sand for the vid. but i've been experimenting a lot lately with the off-grid heating options (parabolics mainly). also looking into getting a decent size fresnel lens. that may be the fastest way to heat it.

😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩God bless You. Where I could buy the fan??

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi and God bless you too!. that fan is from walmart (sold in their auto dept). amazon sells them too. cost about 10 dollars

@johnjohn35104

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much.

You can use a heating element, like for an electric hot water heater, power that from solar to heat your sand..And bingo, you now have free heat, as long as you have a big enough solar system..I've made a dozen of them, they work like a clock..

This is a cool design for a sand heater, but you didn't really show a good battery for it. With the inclusion of the copper, I thought you were going to use it for charging the battery, but you didn't. You could add some graphite/graphene solution to it to allow you to use the copper and electricity to heat the battery.

@charlescannon2128

Жыл бұрын

😊

How do you deal with the fan blowing lose sand around?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. the sand stays put. the breeze doesn't move it at all. i was wondering if that would happen but it doesn't. (and i used an overly strong fan).

@johnassal5838

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 You could try something like aluminum window screen. It's around as thermally conductive as copper. Basically stand a loose roll of it in the bucket as it's filled with sand that sticks out as much so there's good contact throughout the sand and plenty of surface area for the air to contact on its way through. Just cook the sand-can in anything as simple as an outdoor fire pit, drop it in the bucket (with strong tongs or something) and use that as a safe carrier to bring inside.

So where did you get the copper from can you give us a link

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. i bought the copper a couple of years ago (on amazon or ebay). don't have a direct link but if you search for copper sheet metal you'll see it. it's a slightly thicker sheet metal (but it still cuts fine with tin snips). if you can't get copper then aluminum flashing or some sort of steel might work well too. copper is best if you can get it though.

In ancient times they would heat rocks and put them in a pan with vented top. They also put hot coals or rocks in a closed pan with a handle on it and use it to heat the bed. You can heat the rocks over a fire if the power goes out and u can't heat with a fireplace. Build a fire outside to heat coal or rocks

@nikkibe6564

Жыл бұрын

Make sure its not River rocks they can blow up when moister inside boils.

Would less vents let the heat last longer?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

it would be something to try. i actually thought of just using one outlet but i was concerned that the heat would be too focused to one area.

@noahriding5780

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 Oh. That's a good point. You were right to worry about preserving the case material.

How long does the air stay warm?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi there. it varies greatly depending on how hot you get the sand battery and how fast you run the fan. i haven't done specific timed tests though

Copper pipes work as well?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. i couldn't say for sure. it's worth trying though

How long it provides heat?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. that will depend on how hot you get the sand battery and if you get it hot all the way to its core. i haven't done detailed timed tests yet, so i couldn't say for sure. if sand battery is hot to the core - you should get hours. slowly cooling off over time. biggest factor other than how hot the battery is, is the speed of the fan. use the fan on low or medium speed to increase length of time the unit will heat. the sand itself will stay hot for hours. maybe even all day

Do you think you could heat up a sauna with it?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. i'm not sure but if you get the sand battery hot enough you might be able too. i'm hoping someone will heat one with a parabolic dish or frensel lens and see if they can go all day on one charge of the battery. my stove only goes to 500F(260C) but the battery could probably handle 1500F(816C) or more.

Lining the housing of the cheater heating in tin foil very good sir =)

how long does the heat last?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. that depends a lot on how hot you get the sand battery and if it's heated all the way to the core. i didn't do timed tests yet so i couldn't say for sure. it lasted thru the filming of the video (and that was with the battery maybe half heated). i don't own a meat thermometer so i couldn't check internal temp of battery. i will be buying one soon though (i think that is the only way to check internal temp)

There needs to be a better way of heating the sand, how did you get it from the oven to the bucket?

@desertsun02

5 ай бұрын

hi. very carefully, with thick gloves

I might make one out of a 55 gallon drum. Paint black/ build fire under it fill with sand and old copper tubing hammered flat and a single in and out to pipe to the house using small inline fan . Maybe 🤔

@tyrelli001

Жыл бұрын

make a youtube video of the final project. I was thinking to do the same. 5 gallon bucket is 60 lbs 'full' of sand. 660 lbs full. Can get furniture rollers for base to move 55 gallon barrel, but they make barrel movers too for a couple $100. I was thinking to get those 12 volt heating elements in the other sand batter video and go crazy with them in a 55 gallon drum in many layers. Then hook them to cheap used solar panels in backyard to drum in house. Then heat up in daylight, use at night.

@tyrelli001

Жыл бұрын

Also I was thinking to buy a $200 heat exchanger off amazon and running a pipe coil through sand battery to circulate antifreeze or something to extract the heat.

Does the fan not blow any sand out?

@desertsun02

2 ай бұрын

hi. nope, the sand stays put. it doesn't move at all.

what sand can we use?

@desertsun02

7 ай бұрын

i typically use play sand. it's a clean (and filtered) sand. ordinary beach sand would probably work good too

What is heating the sand and copper ?

@desertsun02

2 ай бұрын

many different ways to heat the sand. i'm currently looking into using reflective devices like parabolic solar cookers and magnifying devices like fresnel lenses. you can also use pv panels hooked to heating elements. (campfires, rocket stoves, propane stoves etc... are other options but harnessing the sun is my preferred way)

Why not use a ICB plastic tote for a outdoor solar air heater ? 2 inches of sand on the bottom? Cut the front out, fill it with metal and sand. Cover the cut out with plexiglass. Pump the hot air into your house.

I have an idea. Put a DC heating element in the sand and power the heating element with solar panels.

What kind of sand are you using?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. it's just a generic 'play sand'. play sand just means it's been cleaned and filtered.

How u heat the sand?

@imixmuan9081

Жыл бұрын

Did you not see it in the oven?

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

hi. yes, you can use oven or stove top (along with many off-grid options like a fresnel lens, parabolic dish, solar oven, or even a campfire, rocket stove or propane stove).

Brilliant l. Solar heat that puppy

@desertsun02

Жыл бұрын

definitely! a parabolic dish or fresnel lens could really crank up the battery temp. all the parts of the battery should easily handle heat up to and a little over 1500F (816C)

@gordybishop2375

Жыл бұрын

@@desertsun02 points to ponder… A nice handle to more easily lift in and out Maybe drill holes in copper for even more air flow/heat exchange but as you shown that’s good enough now. I might of missed in watch about how long it lasted.? Wonder what off the shelf metal could be used instead of copper for the scrounged. Ooh…copper tubing. Erector set prices with lots of holes in them, etc. Thanks for sharing your adventures.