What do you think about this low grade solar boosted geothermal system?

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@Underground-Electronic-Music some

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@Underground-Electronic-Music very cool

@TheWaterH3rO

Жыл бұрын

Think I am going to try it. Currently, I use a generator and heat exchanger to heat my water and pump the gas into algae ponds… if I ran the gas through a media bed first which also contained a liquid circulation system i could add a preheating system to my hot water system. Thanks for your info.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

@@TheWaterH3rO I hope it works for you!!!

@davidlhamilton3305

Жыл бұрын

I am building or digging my own system on 5 acres in Northern Nevada. When the ground thaws.

I live in Saskatoon and I have built a thermal battery using a 55 gallon drum, 300lbs of bees wax, 600ft of pex pipe, and a custom copper heat exchanger which I plan to install in my garage in conjunction with an infloor heat loop. I am currently in test phase and results are promising. I will update you on further progress. Great channel by the way!

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

That’s awesome!

@kjlahti782

2 жыл бұрын

Cannot wait to hear how it goes for you.

@josephspruill1212

Жыл бұрын

How’s the bees wax working for ya?!. And what made you pick this?

@diniasphillips2606

Жыл бұрын

@@josephspruill1212 Likely because the heat capacity of beeswax is insane.

@stevenjohnson1409

Жыл бұрын

@@karltest1314 I like the idea of sand, but how can you take 100C solar heated water and heat the sand to higher than 100C for long term seasonal storage? Something my brain has been trying to work on.

Just a brief note. You are the first person that has given me an explanation as to the value of giving a like to a video

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

That made my day!

The lower temperatures of the dirt batteries may be used to run a Stirling Hot Air engine. They have such engines for electric production on the markets. It works off the difference in the temperature, the greater the difference the better the efficacy.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting idea!!! Thank you for the comment!!!!

@melodylyons4631

Жыл бұрын

Too cool,;)

There was a simple device some time ago that you could run a FM radio by rotating a generator. The inventor said he was also going to make a system of storing energy by weights and ropes. Just lift the weights to a certain height hanging on a rope and slowly let it come down via some gears and wheels and generate electricity, the same way a cookoclock

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Very cool

@Anthony-pg6fv

Жыл бұрын

I have thoughts like that. I envision a tower with weighted 55 gallon barrel. Lifted with your car/truck/tractor. Drops with some gearing that would spin a shaft to run a car generator and make electricity or charge your battery banks.

Wow! Thank you for the inspiration! I started making a pop can solar heater but stopped wanting to make it where I could use some of the heat captured at nighttime, using a much smaller space (instead of a whole wall) than the dirt packed tires used in earthships. So many ideas on how to incorporate sand with the principles of soda can heaters have been flooding thru my head. I will let you know those ideas I like enough to try and what results I arrive at! I love inspiration like you give! 🖖🏼💫

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Thank you soo much for the kind words

Centrifical energy storage has been around about 100 years now. There was a bus system in Switzerland in the early 1900s that used this energy to propel the buses in between their stops. At the bus stop they would charge up the centrifuge mechanism and then continue to the next stop.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

omg that's awesome!!!!! Thank you for sharing

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

I used a gyrobus to go to school as a child. The carefully balanced flywheel was powered directly by a generator, which was powered from the trolley at the stop. The kinetic energy of the flywheel through the same generator produced an electric current that was enough to pass 2-3 stops without stopping (as a child I did not count km). It is a thing that is relatively loss-making, but trolleys did not have to be built along the entire route and in difficult terrain. He won the purpose at a time when electricity was cheap. Some hospitals still use kinetic storage tanks to cover small power outages or to compensate for fluctuations in the network. Domestic production of such equipment is not useful.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@DL-kc8fc and yet people still do it

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek No. Gyrobuses were canceled. Somewhere it runs like a rarity, similar to the steam locomotive in the tourist season. Instead of gyrobuses, electric buses with batteries or trolleybuses have been running for a long time. In hospitals, kinetic tanks are used to bridge small outages, for example for 30 s before diesel generators start up. Kinetic reservoirs are most often used to compensate for anomalies in the distribution network, because many medical devices depend on a stable source, such as dialysis devices, monitoring units, etc. People don't really do that. But research institutes are still researching it - a flywheel in a deep vacuum on a magnetic cushion and generating electricity through superconductors. So far, it lives only on grants and tabloids. Not everything is transparently honest. :)

As for the spinning method of storage, most of us use it everyday. It's used in the flywheel of an automobile engine it gives us a more steady movement instead of a jerky movement where we would get thousands if bursts of acceleration and deceleration, the flywheel resists the acceleration and the corresponding deceleration just enough to smooth out the motion. That is an energy battery at work.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Nice!

@nickzproductions

2 жыл бұрын

flywheels are also used by power plants in a battery capacity! IIRC some substations or generation stations keep a giant flywheel spinning and tap into it if there is extra strain on the grid. or something like that

@thegreenfiddler1

Жыл бұрын

Flywheel energy storage has been around a long time. Also gravity batteries are old technology that can be very useful and helpful if you have a place that it can be used.

@Tennouseijin

Жыл бұрын

Some time ago, there have even been buses that relied on flywheels (recharged at bus stops). Supposedly they could go ~6 km on a full charge.

@judyofthewoods

Жыл бұрын

@@Tennouseijin yes, heard of them too. I think the way they were "charged" was a large spring coil being wound up. I guess, a wind-up toy is an energy battery (anyone old enough to remember those?)

FYI. If you use cheap, rough sand in an insulated container (say, a 2 by 2 by 2-meter concrete and perlite sunk box into the ground), you can heat it to over 500 degrees C using solar energy and cheap resistance heaters. You store that heat while the sun shines (or the wind blows if you have a turbine). And then attach an old-school boiler to power radiant flooring or radiators, and use a heat exchanger for hot water on demand. It's quite efficient and super cheap.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Great idea

@jacknissen6040

Жыл бұрын

Had similar idea, similar size too, 2.5m cube gives 15,625 m3 capacity!

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

@@jacknissen6040 great minds think alike

@The.Ghost.of.Tom.Joad.

Жыл бұрын

@@jacknissen6040Though now that I think about it, it'd be wise to consult an engineer or HVAC contractor about boiler sizing. No sense in blowing yourself up to get inexpensive heat. And from my understanding, a blown boiler is wicked dangerous. :-)

this one explains more what I was looking for! thanks!

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

you're welcome

You always explain things so well for us novices ty

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you sooo much for the kind words

Battery doesnt have to be electrical, it simply means a collection of cells. We use the term "tank battery" out here in west Texas to refer to the 4 to 10 tank setups near wells.

Your doing great one day your going to fall upon the ears of a genius kid and give him or her just the right enthusiasm and outta the box thinking they will invent something new to help the world out as I said good job for inspiring people to think for themselves

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you do much for the kind words and inspiration!!!!

I lost heating over Christmas and New year - as the house was absolutely cold there was temperature difference of 5°C between the floor and air below the floorboards Over the years the 'dirt' below had retained heat. So it is possible to have a base heat source by pumping extra heat below the floorboards as an energy storage device

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Nice

An alternative form of pumped-hydro system is to start at sea-level and dig a reservoir that is below sea-level. You generate energy as the sea-water fills the reservoir, and store it by pumping it back out again. It is relatively inexpensive to dig a hole, the United States has 12,000 miles of coast-lines, and our largest population centers happen to be along the coasts.

@SimpleTek

4 ай бұрын

Good idea

Phase change tiles (wall and ceilings) are commercially available. I saw an example in a Ceres Greenhouse in Boulder Colorado. In this application, Ceres used a commercially available reflective white tile along the north wall to both reflect light back across the greenhouse and act as a battery. Different chemical mixes in the gel solutions preset the range of temperatures for the phase changes.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting, I haven’t seen that yet! Curious how they do it

@judyofthewoods

Жыл бұрын

I've seen a video about something similar, but more like soft gel mats like what you put into a cool box. Amazing stuff. It can store a huge amount of cold or heat (with a preset, according to use) in a very small volume. They had thin mats which you could put under the floor, around your wood burner - whatever, and use it as a heat battery that would radiate back later in the way a masonry stove does, but with less bulk and weight. I can't remember the capacity compared to stone/concrete, but it was substantially higher. I saw it done in a tiny house.

YES! GREAT video! I build windmills, both kinds (HAWT & VAWT). THEY COMPRESS AIR. I use their STORED compressed air in a variety of self-designed and self-built engines to do work.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

That’s awesome

Thank you.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the kind words

awesome thank you

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

You’re welcome

Just found you great programs thank you...

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words

@redwood76

Жыл бұрын

If I thought you were s***** I would've wrote that too...

There was an engineer who built a house in Colorado that used a type of molten salt as a stationary heat storage inside an "attached greenhouse type structure" attached to the southern bottom part of his house. Through the day, the sun would shine on the sealed black cylinders holding the molten salt causing it to turn from solid to liquid as it absorbed energy. After the sun went down, the cylinders would radiate the heat in that room and then a little bump of extra heat when the molten salt phase changed from liquid to solid as it crossed that threshold. I remember he had it set up so he could open a vent to use or bypass that room depending on whether he needed more heat at night. He also built a large timber wall on the south side with lot of windows to be thermal mass for the sun's heating. Same setup there with ventilation allows more control over using or bypassing that extra heat. Oh, it's been a really long time since I've read about that house. Such interesting ideas before these ideas were more common.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

That sounds awesome! Thank you for sharing

Love ur content

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words!

You just unlock the power of the pyramid......🙂thank you

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

You’re welcome

Thank you

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

You're welcome

Amazing video, love the paraffin wax idea

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

Awesome ideas man

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words!

Compost heaps release heat as they break down. A large well-designed insulated heap with a PEX pipe coiled through its centre can provide decent low-grade heat. It's odd to think of plants as batteries, but they do convert sunlight into chemical energy some of which is released as heat after they die and decompose.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Great info, I have a video in my archives on that

😀 You have some great ideas 👍

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words

@Rob.P

Жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek 👍

I'm a bit surprised you didn't get more into pumped hydro storage. It's the largest grid-level battery in use right now. I appreciate the overview! I've come to realize that energy is actually really important to developing and flourishing as humans!

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I did mention hydro dams…

Early industrial welders used Heavy Motor Generator sets. 440Vac in, 80VDC out at 3000 amps. Several tons of windings spinning 10 thousand RPM. They were used as Sonar power supplies too, which lends all kinds of questions to gyroscopic affects on the system.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Interesting

Strange that you haven't heard of "spinning" energy storage before. It's just a flywheel and it's used in every internal combustion engine. We've been using these for centuries! Modern flywheels for grid level energy storage prioritize rotation speed for efficiency reasons and are probably out of reach for hobbyists because they typically use magnetic levitation bearings to avoid losses. No physical bearings can withstand 100,000RPM.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Seems like an awesome technology

@laurencerilling5873

Жыл бұрын

The bearings in my turbo work fine at well beyond 100,000 RPM

I like the idea of the William skinner gravity power machine. More of an amplifier then a battery I guess. Great video keep them coming

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words

@ozzypunk1

2 жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek Hello from Australia 🇦🇺 by the way .

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@ozzypunk1 cheers from Manitoba!

Great video. Curious about ur thoughts on this. Using pelton wheel in hydro electric and using compressed air as a battery. Would a pelton also be the most suitable design for air?

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t know… maybe?

Ice storage based heating systems are commercially available in Europe. Freezing point is no problem with a heat exchanger.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

heat exchangers are great but very costly - you can do almost anything with enough money, the key is to do it affordably!

Any kind of heat storage (dirt, molten salt, etc) lives and dies based on how well you can insulate your container. A pile of dirt should be surrounded by a bunch of foam panels for a thermal break. That's how proper heated concrete floors are made. There are also huge adiabatic losses involved in storing a hot medium; lots of the energy stored in your air compressor is the heat created when you squeeze the air down, and then it cools off and loses that energy and contracts, thus losing pressure even without any leaks. Gravity storage is very low density, but it works so well because of the extreme volumes used for the battery. Entire mountaintop lakes. We should be building them as fast as we can. These differ from hydroelectric dams because in the latter there's no pumping water back uphill when electricity is cheap. A hydro dam just slows or stops production, but it doesn't "recharge" so it's not really a battery. I think the most interesting concept is cryogenic storage. It actually uses properties of both phase change and adiabatic change to GAIN efficiency. Chill air until it condenses into various component gases, let it warm back up to ambient, and you have even more pressure than you started with. It's also both reasonably safe and very compact, so you can store a few MWh within a city lot close to where energy is needed. If I were to become an engineer developing some next-gen solution, this is the one I would go with.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Cool

@sjhorton1184

2 жыл бұрын

Compressed air using a Trompe does not produce heat. Look into this as it appears to hold great promise and is very underdevoloped.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@sjhorton1184 thank you

@lesliegurley8362

2 жыл бұрын

Actually a reservoir is a battery as it does recharge in the form of rain falling at higher elevations completing the cycle.

@johnduncan5117

Жыл бұрын

@@lesliegurley8362 quite apart from the fact that non rechargeable batteries are still sold by the millions ;)

Thanks

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

You’re welcome

Never heard the wax thermal storage, immediately makes me think about trying wax/sand mixes, makes it much less problematic than containing high moisture content sand.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Ohhhh, intriguing concept!

@AshtrayAnnie

2 жыл бұрын

That made me think of an ingenious set up of a solar vacuum tube running in floor lines with water, with another, closed loop line that would remain only in the floor itself with parafin wax running through it. During the day the solar tubes would heat the parafin wax into a liquid, which would be surrounded in sand in the floor of a greenhouse. So that both the sand and the wax would be heated throughout the day. I believe this would be an EXTREMELY efficient system. With the proper depth this could actually mimic a tropical region much better than many existing passive greenhouse designs. Especially in colder regions like northern Canada.

@whosonfirst1309

Жыл бұрын

You should look into Glauber salt.

@joeblundell299

Жыл бұрын

@@whosonfirst1309 I used to have packets of those hand warmers when I was a kid, I loved watching it crystalize. I had put that as an option for a potentally high end unit, the ability to bring it close to the temp needed, then just finish the process with a microwave.

@whosonfirst1309

Жыл бұрын

@@joeblundell299 please look up chrisleblay. Very interesting.

Hello, thank you for your explanation. Could you please explain the principle of a sand battery and how it can store thermal energy?

Watching other videos about using geothermal to heat and cool a house, I haven't heard anybody else say anything about insulating the inground thermal loop section, making it sound like you had to rely solely on ground temperature. I'd thought about ways to make it easier to service the system, by putting it in a sort of box, but wondered if that would inhibit the functionality of the system. Thank you so much for adding to my understanding by talking about insulation!

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Glad I could help

@jacknissen6040

Жыл бұрын

Insulating in ground has been done

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

@@jacknissen6040 yeah but he hadn’t heard of it!

@judyofthewoods

Жыл бұрын

Geothermal actually uses the low grade heat of the ground, so insulation would be pointless. The heat is concentrates into higher heat with a heat pump. Heat batteries store higher heat from another source in an insulated container to prevent the heat being lost into the surrounding space or material until needed. Storage in the ground is out of the way, and the ground has a relatively stable temperature.

Ceres greenhouses has a these phase change salt material that you screw to the back wall of your greenhouse that absorbs the sun's heat during the day and turns to a liquid inside and then radiates the heat out through the night as it solidifies.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Ceres makes great stuff

@anthonylandry7593

Жыл бұрын

petroleum jelly is a phase change material. a European company called CRODA sell phase change gel packs

Sergey Yurko (Сергей Юрко) videos are very very impressive!

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Sergei is awesome. I pray for his safety in Ukraine.

About phase change, have you heard of sodium acetate and other chimicaly stored energies that can be stored for cold season? (seasonal storage)

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

No but it sounds interesting!!!!!

Nicely explained. Flywheels are way beyond research. Satellites, for example, have been using them for energy storage for decades. There are also numerous commercial applications as emergency backup power systems.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words and information!!!

@Tanstaaflitis

Жыл бұрын

I don't think satellites use flywheels as energy storage. They use flywheels in the guise of "reaction wheels". These spin up and the counter-rotational force moves the satellite around an axis through it's center of mass. As they require no fuel, they are weight and energy efficient means to rotate satellites. The Hubble Telescope uses them to stay pointed at a target patch of sky and scan across the sky in very precise arcs. These are also components that fail over time and generally have redundant backups. They save energy, not store it; a rotating mass for energy storage would force the satellite to rotate in the opposite direction.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

@@Tanstaaflitis interesting

Combine thermal with steam setting a collector tank ground level and one 15 to 30 feet below ground insulating both. Use a boiler to heat water or even salt water keeping this in a closed loop. Set up a turbine generator to cover energy as the falls back to the lower tanks one as catch Can and the other as b boiler. This might actually require 4 tanks for storing different temperatures of water. Add your candle above the boiler with a forced air help moister issues. Thanks for the ideas.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

cool

@peterk.6093

2 жыл бұрын

Use it in (under) a greenhouse as an insulation to minimize the heat losses and also to use the inevitable heat losses to keep the greenhouse warm. Use heat pumps to get any extra heat in the greenhouse back in the water loop. Plant the sugar beets or sugar cane in the greenhouse and turn them into alcohol using the same heat you have in you water loop for the distillation. Burn the alcohol when necessary in order to warm up the water/produce the electricity. Replace the water in the water loop with the alcohol as it is able to vaporize under lower temperatures. Which means the same circulation with less energy input and less energy loss. Actually, I think alcohol is one of the coolest energy batteries ever. Drinking it is a waste.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@peterk.6093 ok

the spinning concept u mention I have been interested in for some time and know as flywheel, used in many industry especially 19 to early 20 century, prob beyond in both directions, there a lot of videos on here, many indian made, would be great for someone with knowhow to strip the myth from the factual on these free energy devices, thnk u and well done, fututre is mechanical, basic, long lasting easy to fix life gravity and maybe flywheel and others too.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

Other battery tech … 1) torsion spring batteries (commercially available). 2) lifted weights (basically the same idea as pumped water gravity batteries but using blocks of concrete). 3) Other mechanical systems, like a bow and arrow and rubber band toy airplane which are scaled up. 4) metal block heat sinks.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

thank y!!!ou

A company that I cant remember the name of stores energy in blocks of cement and uses cranes to lift these blocks and lowers the blocks later to produce kinetic energy. The blocks can also store the energy indefinitely until needed and its around 80% + efficient.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Wow

One of the thoughts I've been kicking around is using a lift to store energy. If you had maybe several hundred pounds of weight that you lifted with something like a motor puller using solar and then, once the sun goes down, the weight is released and powers a generator for night-time energy. I haven't worked on the actual design, but it seems plausible.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

I like it

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

It is necessary to remember the law of conservation. If you pull out, for example, a lead block or a concrete panel up to 6 m high, which can handle, for example, a 20W electric motor with slow gear, which is powered by a solar panel for 6 hours (1 hour = 1 meter), you can calculate with simple mathematics that you accumulated 20Wx6h = 120Wh . We do not have to deal with the weight of the lead block or concrete panel, because you accumulate 20W per hour, ie a total of 120Wh. If you turned on the kettle in the evening, which normally has a power input of 2kW, the panel or lead would have to fall at almost a free fall speed in order to generate the necessary power to brew coffee. As you probably intuitively suspect, it would only work for a short time (during the rapid descent of the panel or lead block to the ground). The kettle would only receive its power for a moment, so the water in the kettle would still be cold. This simple math is lacking in idealized cases on video, giving vain hope to amateurs. Molten salt or huge underground infrastructure is really not for amateurs with limited investment and the appropriate building permit. Even a person with his own land will not go to a dubious business with little efficiency. If I can advise, it is better to have a suitably dimensioned solar field on the roof of the house, a suitable regulator and batteries if we want to directly accumulate electricity. You will definitely make this coffee in the evening. :)

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@DL-kc8fc nothing ventured nothing gained

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek Don't take it personally. It is necessary to distinguish between the "idea" and the presentation of something that experimental institutes or companies can afford, which will drown taxes in an eco-project with many contracted experts. For an amateur, this is not realistic in terms of both investment and efficiency and associated returns. We who work with photovoltaics can afford the investment, because these installations actually work and, depending on the situation, show a surplus that must be processed so as not to reduce the immediate and commonly used power in the home and not overheat the panels from untapped power. This is a real accumulation of energy, which is obtained essentially for free and everyone can achieve it, even on a small scale. There are other ways, but they require their infrastructure, control and service. If it was as simple as it is talked about, it would be used, which it is not.

@dienekes4364

2 жыл бұрын

@@DL-kc8fc As it is with EVERY storage option, so my suggestion is no different than everything else out there.

Could include thermo-chemical heat storage. Material such as zeolite releases latent heat by the addition of water, recharged by dehydrating with heat. Zeolite for heat storage is an active topic for R&D.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Very very cool but sounds complicated and expensive

I looked into using water as storage to produce electricity, but the sheer volume of water necessary was staggering. If you already have a stream/river that is falling then it may be feasible, but to build something, even a pond, was impractical. Compressed air seemed viable on a small scale, but it's like constantly trying to manage a bomb. Molten salt, even with all of the extreme temps, almost seems manageable on a DIY scale. High pressures should only exist where you convert to steam. Phase Change materials seems promising, but finding the perfect material factoring... the cost of the materials, the energy capacity and the phase temperature is very difficult. I've recently looked at paraffin, PVC and sucrose as potential candidates. Water is hard to beat in most storage areas... very high heat capacity, extremely cheap, fluidity over a wide temp range! I think there's a reason the Earth uses water as a phase changing thermal battery.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Well said

brick battery from rondo energy for exemple ? may be you heard about it since

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

No, please provide a link, very interested

had not thought about paraffin as a way to store heat. Imagine for those who wish to using it as a store of heat on a wood fired stove would be amazing

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Cool

hay simple tek ive been thinking about magnifing glasses in front of porcelin with copper pipes around the porcelin

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Interesting

Has any one tried using the high heat of parabolic solar with sand battery for residential use. I'm not sure about the size but maybe an old 275 gallon oil tank some spray foam, 2 air loops, One continuous loop for heating sand and one open loop to blow through the house or transfer with a flat plate heat exchanger to hydro heat?

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Interesting idea!!!!

thanks for the great, inspiring video. you introduced 6 very interesting storage systems. only 1 is not a viable one: compressed air. in industries it is considered the most expensive form of energy due to loads of heat losses. you might want to replace that in your video with a gravity battery: drop a heavy weight on a long cable into an old mine shaft... there is room for all of these systems. we should handle this theme like we should out nutrition: we are omnivore.

@SimpleTek

10 ай бұрын

Thank you

@experimentmagnet

2 ай бұрын

Actually, I am using 4 of 18-wheeler propane tanks (250PSI @ 50,000 gal) for the pontoons in a livaboard barge. I can use wind solar and waves to compress air... pretty inefficiently, but for free and continuously top off these air batteries. Thst air will 😂do all kinds of things from electricity to propulsion. It's cheap and easy to get the equipment... you just don't want to pay the power company for the air. 40hp Referidgerator trailer diesel engines with massive 3 cyl "air compressors" attached from the factory (for the refrigerator loop). All running on cleaned waste oil... almost free and pushing a generator, distilling fresh water, HVAC heat and water at the same time during the air top off phase of operation. You know ... on cold still Feb days in the rust belt. Almost 10k# of compressed air.. . Zero emissions.

I grew some salt crystals years ago which would boil water at 60 degrees F under a 100 watt heat bulb. The top of the Crystal got hot and the water below next to freezing. It seems that water boils when it’s ability to dissipate energy is inhibited, I.e. a vacuum or conversely high pressure. Heat doesn’t seem to be the primary requirement so far as phase change is concerned. Phase change seems to be more dependent on external forces than internal.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Very cool

In my opinion, the best and most interesting option has been the wax as an afordable phase change energy accumulator. It is quite easy to built since it has not pressure, corrosion or leakeages issues as all others

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Wax is amazing

@zano9291

7 ай бұрын

Is it flammable and can get quite expensive assuming you get the proper mixture of wax required per application.

Actually, the water will go all the way to 100°C before the temperature stops. Then it takes an enormous amount of energy to transition from 100° water to 100° steam. After that, the temperature of the steam can go higher if removed away from the water and exposed to a hotter source of heat.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Well said

Oooh, how about for a 'desalination transportation' operation, via the ocean traveling, as the super train could collect the dew drops formed from the solar array to the sides (but they might get blinded if they look outside their windows... lol) - An elongated dome like tunnel, but wide enough to collect and store the heat and opposite temps... plus distilled water and salt/brine. Recycling the things we don't need could help. Woooh! for many helping hands! Lol

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

interesting!

Expodentially is a funny word, but it's not a real world. I enjoy these videos and get a lot from them and so many of them have 'expodentially' in them.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

What is a word in one country In one country often isn’t in another. Time to expand your horizons!

@grahaigh

Жыл бұрын

​@@SimpleTek Did you mean to say 'exponentially'?

WOW Unbelievable: More than 98% of electricity generated in Manitoba comes from clean and renewable sources such as hydroelectricity and wind. Manitoba currently produces a surplus of hydro-sourced energy, and exports about half of the electricity it generates.

@SimpleTek

3 ай бұрын

Been like that for decades here in Manitoba, we’re very lucky with ample hydro available

I found this video to be very informative. Currently, I keep a five gallon can of water over a propane heater to radiate heat after I've turned off the heater. I'm interested to try a can of paraffin and of salt!

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

You gave many alternatives, however most were above my basic level of comprehension lololol. 👵🏻👩‍🌾❣️

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Im sorry. Try some of my other videos in the archives!

So the parifin wax idea seems pretty cool, however parifin is around $1.73 a pound. It takes approximately 459lb of water to fill a 55 gallon drum. I don't know the weight density of parifin but it's still with a few pounds of water to fill a 55 gallon drum which is almost 800 bucks per drum.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

True, it is costly compared to just water

thanks so much! can you please describe the 2000 dollar system better? been wanting a greenhouse but we are in upstate ny... sadly!

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

I think I have a video on it in video archives on this channel

Great video. Do you have any ideas on how to calculate the size/weight of a heat battery for a given size greenhouse?

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Not that I know of, it's a estimate thing for me

You are talking about molten salts as well as phase change. The btu available on the phase change will be huge.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Great point!

What about absorption thermal energy storage using some of very hygroscopic salts (like e.g. calcium chloride or other) and water?

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

interesting idea!

#6 is a mechanical battery.. or a flywheel, they were very popular in the 1800s

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Cool

The Gyro buses. The subject that has had this topic of using momentum baised Mechanical batteries being researched again. Man in the 1950's tried to have electric buses that were powered from storing energy from gyro scopes/flywheels.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

very cool historical fact!

The craziest way to explain the amount of energy in phase change materials that I've heard is this one; if you have a bucket of water at 0° c that's liquid (not ice everything's gone through the phase change and it's just about starting to heat up}, and next to it you have a bucket of water that's 0° Celsius that's solid (ice), the amount of energy required to change the solid to liquid would cause the other bucket to become 60° c, and the ice bucket would be water at 0° c

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

that's just water though - different materials have different melting and freezing point with different amounts of energy required

how do you pump heat "battery" into the ground.. ? doesnt it just dissipate? how do you insulate? what percentage effeciency is it? how long will your "battery " stay charged?

@SimpleTek

9 ай бұрын

heat moves slowly through the ground, thus it can store heat

Have you looked at Iron Oxide batteries? There are a few videos online on this and seem like good option...

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

no, interesting!!!!

For storing energy in a rotating mass, you really want it in an almost-vacuum and with magnetic bearings to minimise energy decay, and generate and recover the energy electrically to avoid rotating bearing seals being necessary - unless it's for very short periods of time such as in an engine flywheel.

Sand Battery, from Finlandia. Heat 500 grds C

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Sweet

Hello... Just FYI... The reason why batteries are defines as such is for historical reason as electrical battery were the first of such conceptualization... As our understanding of science & energy grew, the term became colloquially broader by adding what "type" of energy you were "storing" (i.e: Thermal Battery, Electrical battery, Kinetic Battery, etc.) However, in the industry today, they tend to use "Energy Storage System" instead of battery in order to minimize confusion AND reduce the limitation on what constitute an energy storage "entity"...

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

ok

I like the idea of storing heat in mass especially for balancing out temps in a living space, like an earthship or wofati design, and it seems like a pressurized air tank would work well so long as I could protect a tank from degradation where it would finally rupture/explode. The air tank seems like it could be the least involved as far as parts that could fail, assuming a pump to fill it when you have excess power (say daytime sun PV) and an outlet to spin a power generator when need exceeds production like at night.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

cheers

@PatrickKQ4HBD

2 жыл бұрын

It sounds like a really fun experiment. It will never pencil out in dollars and cents, but that's not the only reason for doing these things. We can learn a lot in the process and have an opportunity to spark discussions with friends and neighbors.

For gravity, they have electric motors pulling heavy loaded train segments up a incline. As power is produced in excess, the electric motor will pull those segments up the hill. When that electricity is needed, the motor will lower the weight down the hill using regenerative braking and will generate electricity by doing so. The spinning you talked about, I’ve heard it called “wheel” power and it was used in the early 1900s as a energy storage device. Same concept, excess power spin the wheel, when you need power, regen from that wheel. The best part is the lack of degrading inside of that system except for the contact surface, aka wheel bearings.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

sweet

@sjhorton1184

2 жыл бұрын

Also called a flywheel. Think that is the better search term if anyone is interested in researching on the web. Usually done in a vacuum to eliminate atmospheric friction also called drag.

@teslamike7476

2 жыл бұрын

@@sjhorton1184 yes sir, sorry I should have updated my comment. It’s some pretty cool energy storage and doesn’t have the west like lithium or lead acid. But suffers more from short term loss. So a daily cycle is a better application there then trying to store it up for weeks or months.

Technically I believe a "Battery" really means "A collection of". Usualy a car battery is a collection of cells. The name battery is also used when talking about canons. You have a gun battery when you have multiple canons. It is only because we have gotten used to talking about electric storrage in batteries that we now think about that first. I believe your heading should have been "7 Simple Alternative Energy Storage Systems". Just for being pedantic.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Lol nice! Cheers

I am planning on a greenhouse addition of 42 x 200 to my gardencenter and have been trying to get info on how to use sand as a heat battery. Any ideas where I can get tried and true info?

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

I have ore videos in my archives

@john9972

Жыл бұрын

Google it for information.

have you ever used an air compressor, or filled a tank? takes a relatively large amount of power/energy to fill a tank .

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

No but it’s a good idea

Take a look at batsand battery. It's made for residential houses.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

will do! Thank you. do you have a link?

@arquizone

Жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek it's not allowed to post links in KZread. You need to search for it

Some time ago you were talking about experimenting with wax in soda cans submerged in a water tank... Did I miss the follow up video with the results?

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

I bought all the materials but haven't done it yet - soon

Would a 2000 gallon sistern fillers with sand to create a sand battery large enough to provide heat for a 1000 sq.ft. house for heat in central ill

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know, there’s a lot more variables than that.

I like your videos alot! Many thanks for sharing! I found it funny as i saw those two spinner widgets spinning at 12:36 i mean, maybe the idea already exists.. what i came up with as i saw it --> how about you put magnet on the widgets edges at certain angle where two widgets while spinning close to eachother almost touching each other due to magnetic field and keepon endlessly spinning? I hope you understain what i mean. So if this works. Spinner converting to big spinner equals big energy :) Grets Boris

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the kind words

@s.b.8704

2 жыл бұрын

Search for "Flywheel energy storage (FES)"; also there are grid-scale commercial applications already. A recently published (13 April 2021) review of this system is open access: Olabi, Abdul G., Tabbi Wilberforce, Mohammad A. Abdelkareem, and Mohamad Ramadan. 2021. "Critical Review of Flywheel Energy Storage System" Energies 14, no. 8: 2159. As for phase change, KZread itself suggested me this video: "Heat Batteries - Revolutionising Thermal Storage & Enabling the Decarbonisation of Heat | ASHRAE UK" (sorry, no links: they delete my comment).

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@s.b.8704 thank you

I have heard of flywheel generators used as energy storage.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

They work

What about vermiculite as an insulator for a dirt battery ?

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

It works but you need something to contain it

The first stored energy is wood. Another interesting way of storing energy is algae production. Squeeze the oil out of it. I do think about make a greater use of the Stirling engine. As soon there is a difference in temperature, you theoretically can get energy out of it via a Stirling engine. What are the limiting factors for it, and why do we not see it in common use? If you look at the coldest village on earth, Yakutsk, where the temperature gets as low as -70°C. Drilling a hole into the ground you probably get zero degrees C not to deep. (Maybe 10 or 20 meter beneath, what do I know). And there you have it! Good conditions for a Stirling engine!

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Interesting thank you

@anthonylandry7593

Жыл бұрын

go online and visit pellet furnace builder Okofen. they have a Stirling mounted on the furnace to generate 5kw of electricity.

Do not put paraffin on a wood stove. Most are capable of heat greater than the flash point of wax - keep the fire on the inside of the stove.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Good advise

I need an alternative means of storage for my off grid AC. I have 24Kw of NiFe storage but they no like my AC system.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

There are options on my channel

Another way to store thermal energy as heat is in a thermos bottle . Partially fill with water and boil. If it doesn't explode use it to run a steam engine.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Interesting

I really struggle to imagine how 'molten salt', would be scaled down to domestic deployment. (Hope I'm wrong.) Great vid. Thanks.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

Does a metal bucket of sand. Have ANY thermal mass to it. If left on top of a pot belly stove?

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

it should

@orcoastgreenman

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, but sand has a lot of air spaces that make it a poor thermal mass unless huge quantities are involved. A big, open top pot of water will collect and store much more. You might want to look at rocket mass heaters also.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@orcoastgreenman up to 100’C, then the water boils off. The sand can heat to hundreds of degrees

For being helpfull and not just criticize I should mention exothermic reaction. A chemical like CaCl2 gives out heat when mixed with water. It could be dehydrated in the summer heat and hydrated in the winter. This would store the summer heat for the winter which really should be the extreme goal. To my knowledge it has been investigated at universities and found possible but it hasn't been commercialized to my knowledge. There is probably a cost/volume problem. I should warn people experimenting with it that I believe there is a possibility for devellopment of Hydrocloric acid. There is probably no better solution for long term energy storage than oil. Plant oil would be good if it was possible to create it artificial maybe starting from hydrogen and using solar energy for all energy input required. I hope some body is/would research it.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Very cool Idea

You mentioned that insulation is a cheat with low grade heat storage. It does not stop the loss, but merely slows it down. But here's that same cheat on steroids. Do it in layers, which will slow down the heat loss even more, since lower differences causes slower transfer. At the center, have your molten salt. After it raises the core temp as much as it can, then take it past the first insulation barrier to the second layer of storage. Repeat until you reach the outermost layer. For taking heat out, reverse the direction, going toward the core only until you have the heat you need. For low grade heating, like for living spaces, you only need to tap the outer layers. For hot water, you'll need to go in a few more layers. For steam power, you need about as much heat as you can get. You can also capture some low grade heat from your compressed air, since compressing gasses concentrates heat, which is wasted if not captured. Also, steam takes very little effort to move upward. If you generate your steam at a very low place, then you can run your turbine and condense it back to water at a very high place. Then you can use gravity to generate more power from the same water as it flows back down to its starting point.

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

You completely misunderstood me

@rafaelshumaker1883

2 жыл бұрын

Completely? Then I guess I'm beyond hope. LOL!

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@rafaelshumaker1883 yep! Lol

@rafaelshumaker1883

2 жыл бұрын

I think you might have misunderstood me. I was not criticizing, not in the least. I was merely pointing out that some of the things you mentioned could be combined, to even greater advantage.

Spinning- flywheel concept. There have been vehicles in the past powered by flywheels. Storing physical energy. What about sand? I’ve seen videos of large containers of sand heated by solar thermal then used later

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Good points

Coconut oil can also be a phase - change thermal battery. I've seen some experiments from Egypt that looked promising for daytime cooling night time heating. + I believe that some of the Mars rovers use paraffin wax as part of their small scale nuclear reactors. I think electricity might be created using peltier pads and cooling fins. (Plz also remember safety, hot wax and oil can burn. "Spinning" flywheels, and centrifuges can be very dangerous.)

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

That’s awesome! Thank you for sharing!!!

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

No. Rover on Mars uses an isotope battery that is not really a battery. A few things in the video are also not batteries, but let's be tolerant. :)

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

@@DL-kc8fc by Webster’s definition of a battery none of them are, I address that though

@DL-kc8fc

2 жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek That is why I call for tolerance. No need to deal with it.

Therefore, a grandfather clock has a mechanical battery, stored energy as mass in a weight.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

true

@laurencerilling5873

Жыл бұрын

All clocks used a mechanical battery

maglev flywheel on a stick, vertical, rotary energy storage, with a coil disc between, you have a self-supporting bearing motor-generator, and if its dc motor and generator, its a two-way flywheel dynamo mass spinning disc, value mass over speed, for easy and long lasting, and simple to less-service needing battery storage, you can spin it faster to make it smaller with same storage of energy, ½Jw^2

@SimpleTek

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting idea

@Jkauppa

2 жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek design equation (for energy density, for flywheel energy storage): S=pi^2 * r^2 * f^2 (^2 = power of two, r = radius of the disc, tall or flat, pi = 3.14159, f=spin revolution frequency per second, S=J/kg)

@Jkauppa

2 жыл бұрын

@@SimpleTek examples: f=3.3kHz (for 200krpm), r=1m, giving 110MJ/kg, 1MJ=0.278kWh, or, about 30kWh/kg. example 2: f=333Hz (for 20krpm), r=10m (wider disc), giving the same energy density, 110MJ/kg (same as hydrogen energy density), or about 30kWh/kg.

@Jkauppa

2 жыл бұрын

​@@SimpleTek you can always add 100x more mass if spinning down 1/10 the frequency, or add the same amoung in radius than you removed from the spin frequency, so either 30kWh/100kg (=300Wh/kg) or r=100m (flat really wide radius disc, a large solar capture area mass spin disc), f=33Hz (for 2000rpm, like in a conventional engine rpm), giving . example: r=100m (area of pi*r^2=31400m^2, or 31MW of solar power area, if 1kW/m^2), giving the same 110MJ/kg

@Jkauppa

2 жыл бұрын

btw, the centifugal force design equation for the disc is: a_rad = 4*(pi^2)*(f^2)*r, so the larger disc, relatively, the less the centrifugal force tearing it apart, almost the same as the energy density equation, (f^2)*r instead of (f^2)*(r^2), so increasing the radius gives less worry about the flywheel breaking apart, but still, it should handle a large centrifugal force, of an order of millions, like in the 200krpm jet turbine at approx r=1m, f=3.3kHz, a_rad = 44.7M-g, for the jet turbine

Interesting video. However each technology should be examined with the loss of energy both at input and output.

@SimpleTek

Жыл бұрын

Good point