I’m a San Francisco area geologist and I can say that building on these materials is like building on jello. I can’t believe they didn’t use piles drilled into the bedrock. The City also has responsibility for approving this plan and the fix, if it can be fixed, is being charged at least partially to the taxpayers! I also worked my whole career at another high-rise on this very corner and saw the damage there from the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. My personal opinion, after drilling and testing this material for decades, and given the extreme weight of the building, is that the building should be razed - it’s a risk to not only residents, but to public safety in this dense urban area.

@jean6061

2 жыл бұрын

Amazing that the taxpayers are footing the bill for the mistakes made by the developers and whatever office in the city approved it. Kim, why is there so much massive development being permitted in that area?

@rubyoro0

2 жыл бұрын

“Razed” sounded like razor, which brought me the next thought….can they disassemble top half and leave only half of building? Test for a few years to see if it helped and then do all the other fixing? It’s probably the stupidest question of the year.

@GnarlsGnarlington

2 жыл бұрын

@@jean6061 You're kidding right? $$$

@LadyAmanita

2 жыл бұрын

I always wondered about 50 Fremont nearby, and how it held up in that event. Overall, do you think the skyscrapers of SF did well in the last quake?

@ehsnils

2 жыл бұрын

If it has started to tilt more just from driving down more poles I can imagine quite horribly what a quake will do. Safety distance would be a mile from that building given all the secondary damage and dust that would occur from it falling.

What I don’t understand is why the developer wasn’t forced to buy back the units. They knew about the problem as they continued to sell units, without disclosing the defect to buyers.

@torrarosa7064

2 жыл бұрын

If you don't understand why the developer wasn't forced to buy back, you don't understand California's Woke politics..

@shadowfox-nf6zi

2 жыл бұрын

@@torrarosa7064 Wouldn't California's "woke politics" benefit the person and screw the business? This situation seems opposite.

@coachmattc

2 жыл бұрын

@@shadowfox-nf6zi Depends on which woke politicians are in business with the businesses. 🤔

@rubyoro0

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t even know what “woke” word means…but if it has to do with politics then I REALLY don’t want to know.

@derek20la

2 жыл бұрын

@@Grauenwolf The people who constantly think about skin color are the true racists.

I’ve lived in San Francisco for 35 years, and the thing my friends & I still cannot comprehend is how it could be legal to build anything that big in this city without anchoring it in hard, hard stone, *particularly* in an area built in part on top of _rubble from the last huge earthquake_. Simply astonishing.

@ruby3dog

Жыл бұрын

Reference reading Gold Rush Port by James P. Delgado good history of how the fill was created

@leonardcollings7389

4 ай бұрын

The government is full of people who got to their position by the Peter Principal.

@hblee88

2 ай бұрын

​ You mean the "Peter Payoff Principle"?! 🤑🤫🫢🙄

The fact that you can talk about "Mr. Hamburger's fix" and keep a straight face is impressive.

@envisionelectronics

2 жыл бұрын

Hamburger needs a Helper.

@jefferyindorf699

2 жыл бұрын

@@envisionelectronics Groan. Great pun.

@jameskeefe1761

2 жыл бұрын

Trying to keep it professional

The absolutely amazing, inconprehensible thing about this building is, that with a project cost of $350 million, they could have driven ALL the pilings down to bedrock for an extra $4 million dollars, slightly more than a 1% increase in total expenditure. Estimates are that it is going to cost up to $500 million to fix this thing, or more likely compensate condo owners and tear it down. Unbelievable.

@aartbluestoke3352

2 жыл бұрын

if those two are even close to equal in value (compensate and rebuild vs fix) i'd go for the rebuild ... would you trust a "don't worry we fixed the problem" even if they blew 500M to implement it?

@vicmerle57

2 жыл бұрын

Probably the contractor received a bonus if he finished the job ahead of schedule. It always comes down to “Follow the Money”.

@shawnbottom4769

2 жыл бұрын

I call that "tripping over dollars to pick up nickels". Wrong people with the wrong qualifications and motivations making wrong decisions. Is anyone really surprised by this though?

@Julia-jm4yy

2 жыл бұрын

Those figures are incorrect.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

@@aartbluestoke3352 Yeah, they're not going to be able to fix it. It's a teardown.

I bet this becomes a story about everybody wanting to make a ton of money but no one wanting to spend a dime. Worst thing I've heard about this building is that the foundation was designed for a steel structure and then the building was changed to concrete. Can't wait to hear you dig in to this mess in future episodes.

@BgMasterGames

2 жыл бұрын

Just imagine this to turn out to be true! My trust issues are gonna worsen...

@williamhaynes7089

2 жыл бұрын

the people that made the money are the ones that sold the units, and then they go away

@hypsyzygy506

2 жыл бұрын

Usual story, then.

@geonerd

2 жыл бұрын

@@BgMasterGames Trust? Believe me, once you hit 50 or so, all 'trust' in human nature evaporates! ;)

@Murph9000

2 жыл бұрын

I forget the number, but it was said that they cheaped out by something like $50-100M by not piling to bedrock (it's deep there). That's big money, but on a multi billion project with extreme prices on the units, it's not insane to say they should and could have done it. There are engineering professors that say the as built foundation could have been sufficient, but on a highly prestigious project? It makes me think of the Towering Inferno scene where Newman says "Code's not enough for that building!"

Just the fact that one of the players in this drama is named "Mr. Hamburger", already promises that these videos will be a fun ride!

@ap70621

2 жыл бұрын

Ronald Hamburger...soooo Ronald McDonald???

@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking

2 жыл бұрын

Willing to put money on the pronunciation is like "Hamburg, Germany." 👌

@lancecluster

2 жыл бұрын

I think part of the issue was mayor mccheese and the hamburglar being put in charge of the approvals

Structural engineer here. I was mesmerized by the Surfside videos and couldn't get enough information. Some excellent lessons in that series. Now I'm super interested in what we will learn from this one. It gives me some inspiration when I see Josh's videos. I aspire to teach and know as much.

@gracieg7601

2 жыл бұрын

@@oakmot5477 this is very very sad. How do these people get away with building a building that can give way and start to lean or even collapse as in the tower that collapsed in Florida? Did they not learn from the condo collapse in Florida? Geez. A million and a half and you’re place is falling down when it’s brand new? What a mess!

@MajorCaliber

2 жыл бұрын

@@gracieg7601 Umm, this leaning highrise in SF was FINISHED 12 years BEFORE the condo collapse in Surfside, FL... plus they are built with very different methods, so no lessons to be transferred... in fact, it appears that *the only thing done RIGHT on the CTSouth condo in FL was THE FOUNDATION* ... just the opposite of the debacle in Frisco...

@lindap.p.1337

2 жыл бұрын

Troy…I am NOT an engineer of any kind. But, Josh has made almost all of his Surfside and now this building’s videos so interesting and understandable that I NEED to see the next one coming out.

@petersack5074

2 жыл бұрын

The trial was expected to last a year; however, a settlement was reached a few months later. Site today[ After the demolition of the Harmon, the foundation was filled in and the site was paved over to serve as a extension of the plaza for the nearby The Shops at Crystals. In April 2021, the site was sold to a developer who intends to build a retail complex on the site.

@PunkMartyr

2 жыл бұрын

My dad is an engineer. Much respect to you intellectuals seriously.

Hey, at least it's not in an area prone to earthquakes or anything. That could be really bad!

@colin-nekritz

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine? If this multi-ton structure without pilings down the bedrock was just sitting on top of what would become essentially Liquefaction sediment during an earthquake event that happens without fail every 50 years and would bring a tower this massive down? Thank god this building isn’t in, say, San Francisco! What a recipe for disaster that would be! /s

@bamboozled9120

2 жыл бұрын

@@colin-nekritz I don’t think you got the irony of his comment

@exrobowidow1617

2 жыл бұрын

@@bamboozled9120 Colin got the irony all right... and expounded upon it! We are laughing now, with a grim laugh knowing what could happen at any moment, due to the human-caused problems with this "structure."

@ReneSchickbauer

2 жыл бұрын

@@colin-nekritz Well, if you can keep the building somewhat level while it's rapidly sinking, you can provide a lot more levels of underground parking to the residents.

@kittenmatchvids6440

2 жыл бұрын

yes, and good thing we have a definitive solution and a definitive idea of when the next earthquake will be :')

Looking forward to another series. I'm not even in the building trades other than more homeowner work than anyone I know but this is so interesting and you present it so well and make it very enjoyable.

@lancecluster

2 жыл бұрын

Well said, Also nice that maybe this, at least at this point is not an autopsy on a disaster. Perhaps the attention Josh brings might result in some action.

@WhittyPics

2 жыл бұрын

Josh is one of the most knowledgeable on KZread,

@debl9957

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

I live in Seattle, and like San Francisco, it is built on landfill. Any question about skyscraper earthquake worthiness begins with the statement that all foundations go to the bedrock. When I learned that this building's foundation consisted of toothpicks inserted into mud, I couldn't believe it. In my opinion, the building is terminally ill, and the city and the owners are just kidding themselves. I'm looking forward to this series.

@steveluke2395

2 жыл бұрын

"Toothpicks inserted into mud." This is the BEST description I've seen of this foundation! Perfect visualization!

@toomanymarys7355

2 жыл бұрын

Venice is toothpicks in mud. It's also not full of skyscrapers. But sticks in mud actually work surprisingly well sometimes.

@JamesMiller530

2 жыл бұрын

Clay actually. All the 1850s landfill was very shallow, and also long gone, partly when the previous building was built, and also because they dug down so deep, any remaining landfill was trucked away.

@exrobowidow1617

2 жыл бұрын

@@JamesMiller530 So clay is just how much better than "landfill" -- ? When I was a student at UC Irvine, I saw them truck away tons of clay/mud and replace it with a better type of soil from elsewhere. That was so they could build the new student center, which was just a few stories tall-- maybe 4 stories plus a basement?

@JamesMiller530

2 жыл бұрын

@@exrobowidow1617Stick a toothpick in a pile of clay vs sand and see which "sticks" better. I live a few blocks from MilLEANium Tower and watched every step of construction. Previous brick building removed, top layer of soil removed, landfill removed, sand originally from Yerba Buena Cove removed, until there was a giant hole multiple stories underground. The friction piles definitely do not go into any landfill, mud, or sand, but should have gone down to bedrock.

A lot of people are like, "Oh man, what if this building falls down?" -- now I haven't watched this video yet (going to shortly) but the biggest issue is the plumbing and elevators and how they will stop working in just a few short years at the rate the building is sinking. This building will probably eventually be torn down but a lot of money is trying to keep it up. Also, I think the original design was steel but than they went with concrete and the weight went up like 2-2.5x

@aday1637

2 жыл бұрын

Plumbing and elevators is the least of their worries if there's an earthquake.

@jeanhansel5805

2 жыл бұрын

I live in SF. Follow the money to learn why the builders were not required to drill down to bedrock. A couple of windows popped out of the highrise over the past several years - never learned why. Also, the plumbing is beginning to fail, with some waste water pipes which have begun tilting upwards, which will necessitate the demolition and rebuild of walls in some of the units. There is a video on line of a marble in an upper floor unit rolling across what is supposed to be a flat floor. The owners of that unit cut their losses and moved out.years ago Every few months there's another meeting about fixing the building, during whih time the building continues to sink and the tilt increases. Ronald Hamburger has stated the building is safe to live in, with the caveat that the fix (whatever that turns out to be) should be done sooner rather than later. The tower is situated in a very densely populated area of the city, surrounded by others highrises. The land on which the tower is built was once the fishing grounds of the Ohlone Native Amerians. SF Bay is swamp and landfill; Montgomery Street used to be the natural shoreline. Not all highrises here are have pilings that go down to bedrock. There are a lot of new highrises going up currently in the South Van Ness/Market Street area. Under one of those new highrises runs an alluvial fan (basically wet sediment) from an underground stream, and the building stands on a foundation and pilings not drilled to bedrock. There are many streams and other water ways upon which buildings have been constructed over the years. Much of the sediment is the wreckage from old sailing ships from the Bay to Montgomery Street. I hope the MT is safely taken down before it has a catostrophic failure.

@QuarioQuario54321

2 жыл бұрын

They can't demo it it's too tall. And leaning.

@tomfeng5645

2 жыл бұрын

@@QuarioQuario54321 that just means you can't do a (cheaper) fast demo, anything is demolishable given enough money. Even if the building ends up condemned though, the question then becomes the cost of demo (+who will pay for it) vs the cost of stabilization+lost usable land.

@QuarioQuario54321

2 жыл бұрын

​@@tomfeng5645 It's unsafe to do that. It's leaning and large. There's already tons of stuff on the lower floors so 50 stories up it would require doing things that nobody has ever done before so the margin of error is extremely small and nobody knows what to do or how to do it. And there is still the risk that they will end up killing people or causing an earthquake or causing billions of dollars of damage.

With plumbing drains pitching at 1/8”/foot, you are probably pooping uphill in some of these units.

@2011blueman

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that's a known issue with the building, as is the plumbing in general because of the warping/bending issues.

@MrUraniumProductions

2 жыл бұрын

Lol you are absolutely right

@petersack5074

2 жыл бұрын

...someones, pool table needs a gyroscope, for balance and '' level-ability '.................on the upper 40 floors....'' honey, i re-levelled the table, for supper '' !

You'd have thought engineering standards for building very tall buildings on reclaimed land in an active earthquake zone in the USA might have been more rigorous than they appear to have been here.

@sethtrey

2 жыл бұрын

I would have, but I don't now.

@joemariquinlan

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome to San Francisco.

@HeatherRose2023

2 жыл бұрын

Except that this is San Francisco. The Pelosi’s were probably involved with the initial project as well.

@staciasmith5162

2 жыл бұрын

Ikr. I have no idea how this thing was allowed to be built. Smh

Yikes! Those huge cracks in the basement, we’ve all seen this before right?

@williamevans6522

2 жыл бұрын

Oh relax... didn't you see the staples across the cracks? I'm sure that will fix it...

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamevans6522 Those weren't even actually staples... They were crack width gauges to monitor the crack growth. But I'm sure it will all be fine... (cancelling my trip to San Francisco)

@wgc53217

2 жыл бұрын

It isn't dangerous or anything, just look at Champlain Towers South. Oops , that's right that one fell! Maybe the people inside should leave NOW!.

I usually couldn’t care less about a building so far removed from my daily life but your videos are always so interesting that I’m learning things about structural engineering in spite of myself

@HJB._

2 жыл бұрын

Dito !

@nobody8328

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a pet groomer, and couldn't care less about constructing anything more complicated than a chicken coop, but here I am 🧑‍🏫

Having lived through the Loma Prieta Earthquake in 1989, there is absolutely no way this building could be considered "safe" for any similar (or higher) seismic event. Imagine being a resident in this tower if/when a temblor hits! Unbelievable this wasn't anchored into bedrock at the outset. Looking forward to this series.

@wun1gee

2 жыл бұрын

And Loma Prieta wasn't even that big of an earthquake. It was moderate at best. The faultlines in the area are capable of generating much, much larger quakes... So even if they use Loma Prieta as a baseline, it's a dumb baseline.

Geologist here....looking forward to the series...especially the quake part.

@Ron4885

2 жыл бұрын

Tim, this is taking place in my city San Fran. It's all the talk here as you might think. Million dollar condos. People aren't happy. (I don't own one to be sure) ;-) I'll notify people around here that he'll be covering this. I'm looking forward to it.

@beckyfreeman1283

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for continuing to educate us on the engineering aspect of these buildings!

@kimberlyperrotis8962

2 жыл бұрын

I’m a geologist, too, hi.

@valoriel4464

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ron4885 hope you will share an occasional update with us. Thx for your cmt. Glad I'm not involved with this mess.

@ApolloVIIIYouAreGoForTLI

2 жыл бұрын

Rock on Tim 🤘🏻

On January 13, 2022 Hamburger, the repair project chief engineer, told CNN: ""Since we anticipate that the rate of tilting will continue to decrease with time, and will eventually stop, we do not anticipate the building would ever tilt enough to become unsafe," he said. "I have performed analyses that indicate the building can withstand at least 70 inches of tilt to the west and 30 inches to the north before its ability to resist earthquakes would be compromised."

@johnp8625

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine having to live in a unit that is 70 inches out of plumb.

@0756rocketman

2 жыл бұрын

I have a bridge for sale Mr. Hamburger.

@JanBruunAndersen

2 жыл бұрын

I think the people living in the building should come together and invite Mr. Hamburger to live in one of the expensive top floor apartments.

@shawnbottom4769

2 жыл бұрын

I have a feeling Mr. Hamburger sometimes forgets where to put the decimal point in his calculations.

@colin-nekritz

2 жыл бұрын

So he's named after a delicious beef patty AND is an aspiring comedian?

This is wild, at this rate they are surely going to have to demolish it at some point soon for safety reasons. Those poor residents, what a nightmare.

@jsnsk101

2 жыл бұрын

no one who lives there is poor, im fairly certain of that

@AreeyaKKC

2 жыл бұрын

@@jsnsk101 poor as in bad luck. Not financially

@dealsfromvirginia1773

2 жыл бұрын

@@AreeyaKKC I hope Nancy Polisy has a place there. It's so hard to feel sorry for the elite.

@AreeyaKKC

2 жыл бұрын

@@dealsfromvirginia1773 I live in a 3rd world country so I understand. Farmer vs social elite.

@QuarioQuario54321

2 жыл бұрын

it cannot be demolished because of its size and leaning

Also, you should put "Millennium Tower" in your description so that this video comes up for appropriate searches.

@38911bytefree

2 жыл бұрын

property value will be decimated. Is all about money .....

As a retired civil engineer I look forward to this series and want to thank you for undertaking it.

This has become, as we used to say back in Texas, a damned GOAT RODEO! After having watched every video in your excellent Surfside series, I am really looking forward to watching all of the videos in your Millennium Tower series, Josh. You do EXCELLENT work!

@mlnags2829

Жыл бұрын

Same here!

What a fantastic metaphor for the entire city. A falling building, surrounded by a sewer of feces and needles.

@benwinter2420

2 жыл бұрын

A giant with feet of clay in a waste land

OMG when a big quake hits and liquefaction occurs...

I lived in SF when this issue first came up. It’s insane and most residents can’t get out of the building wo taking a huge loss. The city is so corrupt and letting things slide… money talks in the city, ignoring pleas of residents. We voted down many projects but then developers bribed multiple politicians to push through projects ruining green spaces, views and the charm of the city.

@LBStew

2 жыл бұрын

Same thing is happening to Colorado. Fill up all the open space and animal habitats with $500k little houses. Heartbreaking.

@mariodumais2153

2 жыл бұрын

In engineering they say "never trust a truss" in politics they say "never trust a politician".

@jean6061

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't it sound a bit like the city offices in Surfside? Keep the problems hidden, work with the developer, and hope no one gets hurt. Amazing!

@hypsyzygy506

2 жыл бұрын

@@mariodumais2153 In the UK we've actually got a senior politician called Truss. She's a favourite to replace Boris Johnson, god help us.

@paulazemeckis7835

2 жыл бұрын

@@hypsyzygy506 trust me - i'm not crazy abour Biden but I sure as hell voted for him just to get that flaming cheeto out of my WhiteHouse!

The disintegrating shear wall and warped foundation! WTF?! I had no idea the building was literally crumbling. I'm glad you decided to do series on this boondoggle, and I'm looking forward to more videos!

@janmcmahon9227

2 жыл бұрын

@@sjb3460 Starts at 11:27 in this video.

Those pics of the spalling in the basement...👀!!

Wow! This new series is going to be great. I have been following the Millennium Tower issue for several years now only through news soundbites. I can't wait to see how the sausage is made with your insights and knowledge of these issues. This is very exciting stuff. Thank you for covering it.

As someone who lives in Northern California (thankfully FAR FAR away from SF) thank you for addressing this situation. It honestly doesn’t surprise me something like this happened in SF, sadly Millennium towers is a nutshell of the issues of the city, not just the engineering practice but the planning committee as well as how the city has been running itself. There used to be pride of SF, especially the architecture of the older buildings (the homes have lasted so long because they were made of local redwoods that has been able to maintain healthy material against the natural testing grounds of being right next to the ocean.) Now it’s an embarrassment the whole West Coast. So I am excited for you to cover this building.

This is fantastic! So looking forward to the series. Largest fail I was ever a part of was a form blow out during a concrete pour for a bridge in Vermont! Not enough bracing. “she’s not goin’ anywhere” turned into “she’s gone” Thanks for your work on your channel.

@davidb6576

2 жыл бұрын

That must have been a cleanup nightmare...

@paulskopic5844

2 жыл бұрын

Normally the "she's not goin anywhere" incantation usually works.

Oh my, I was following this story, but I didn't know there was a risk. All the "officials" and "experts" were assuring everything was under control. Hmmm. no wonder I'm always skeptical.

@charleyb8423

2 жыл бұрын

Just like the WH.

Glad you took on the challenge Josh. I have watched all the news reports over the last year. I understand this was originally designed to be a steel frame bldg but ended up being concrete. So did they modify the foundation to compensate for the added weight. - Obviously driving piles down 60 ft and not to bedrock was to reduce building cost, but a heavy bldg. in an earthquake zone with soil with a propensity to liquify seems like a highly risky move. Again putting piles to bedrock on only one side as a fix, is kicking the can further down the road. The dishing of the foundation slab is an indication of other issues. Was their any safety factor built into short pilings in that type of soil on such a heavily loaded bldg. From where I sit I suspect it is a combination of under design and cheap skating the pilings in not going to bedrock. That is simply bad judgement and poor design and has nothing to do with the transit authority de-watering their site. It seems that Engineering is all about erring on the side of caution. Not the case here.

@petersack5074

2 жыл бұрын

Right Mr Pan. There used to be a margin, for longevity and safety, in ANY engineering of '' stuff ''. In electronics/electrical, it used to be about a 25 or 30 percent, PLUS in any ' ratings' of said equipment. Meaning it was '' designed '' to be rated that much higher. (For safety and length-of-life of a product). So, for example your drill is rated at 120 volts @ 3 amps. Then the normal power used, would be 70-75 percent of that rating. Same as gas/diesel engines. Actual usage, would be around the same said 'rating'. Today, there is NO EXTRA MARGIN, designed into 'stuff'. The rating, is ALLREADY MAXED OUT. Alot of electric drills' these days, are mostly glorified 'toys '. With cheap plastic, as well, and some 'stuff' has very shoddy materials, inside. Good day, sir.

Going from a steel frame on a pad to reinforced concrete ... I've read it's the heaviest building West of the Mississippi and the change saved the developer ~$4 million, about the price of a couple of units.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

The heaviest reinforced-concrete building west of the Mississippi, not the heaviest overall. 686 million pounds of structure, plopped down in mud...

So excited to see you are doing a series on this building! You have a gift for breaking things down and explaining the principles of construction

You're videos series are phenomenal, looking forward for all of these.

I’m looking forward to hearing your analyses. I live in SF, so have been following this for years. Be sure to separate out decisions by owners, developers, outside engineers, local building department, their consultants, etc. There’s not just one line of decisions here. Also, recall the line of embarrassing major construction failures here lately: after the 1989 Loma Prieta Bay Bridge failure, we built a new multi-billion dollar cable-stayed bridge which immediately had serious engineering problems of water in the main tower that required extraordinary fixes. We built a new Transbay Terminal (Millenium Tower neighbor) which within months developed a fatal crack in major steel structural support that required extraordinary quick fixes. Now this. There may be engineering design problems in all of these, but they reveal very public failures of engineering management and oversight, and review of financial decisions by the Big Money people. After underfunding civic maintenance for decades, it now feels as if we may not even be able to start with a clean sheet of paper and design and build new construction without a big box of million-dollar bandaids.

@jean6061

2 жыл бұрын

Ouch! Just doesn't make a lot of sense to put such heavy buildings on such unstable soil.

@phillipkalaveras1725

2 жыл бұрын

The $6.5billion New East Bay Bridge is NOT fixed. The dehumidifiers failed, the broken foundation bolts can not be replaced and the rusting cables under the roadway are grouted in and cannot be replaced among other problems. Calif is quietly but desperately spending billions attempting to keep it upright until the next moderate quake takes it down. California is a Criminal Empire that is only good at acquiring power and wealth... not building things. Keep in mind only 20 cents of every dollar spent in CA. goes to the cause the rest goes into the pockets of the well connected and 100% Democrat

@anthonyboarman3833

Жыл бұрын

San Francisco is not a good for building large projects.

I can't wait. Here is a question: When does it get so dangerous to the public that the building has to come down? And why has they not been talked about. Are they just waiting for the thing to come down on its own?

As this sinks into the earth, will the 'soils' simply compress vertically or does the material displace laterally as well, and effect neighboring properties with unexpected forces?

@jsnsk101

2 жыл бұрын

good thought, im interested to know that now too

@beglitchery

2 жыл бұрын

I’m going to guess water content in the soil will play a (significant?) factor in answering this. I’m curious if liquifaction (even outside of an earthquake) could become a concern given the weight of the building and the rate it is sinking

@Numantino312

2 жыл бұрын

@@beglitchery that very site used to be under water (san fran bay). it's built on landfill.

@jean6061

2 жыл бұрын

@@Numantino312 Insane, isn't it? I was teaching a student about earthquakes, which led to a study of liquefaction and then the Millenium Tower. It does not take an engineering degree to realize what a huge mistake it is to build there - much less without driving piers into bedrock! Show the plan to any middle school science class that's learned about soils and liquefaction and earthquakes and they'll tell you not to build there.

@ivankuzin8388

2 жыл бұрын

@@jean6061 Sometimes bedrock just isn't available at all - it is so far down, yet tall buildings are still being built using one of the types of friction piles, so it is really just a question of proper analysis and dimensioning, which was obviously not the case here.

thanks, Josh. i was hoping you'd do a series in this building.

@hlowrylong

2 жыл бұрын

You probably meant “on” or “about” …. We don’t really want Josh to go “in” this death trap … 😉

I live here in the SF Bay Area, & I’ve been glued to your series about CTS from Day 1. I’ve also been following the Millennium Tower saga here locally, but am EXCITED to now hear all the details & reasoning from my favorite engineer! Thank you so much, & know that we’re here listening & hoping for a real solution. ❤️

Concrete cheaper than steel? I thought the whole idea of steel skyscrapers was to allow taller buildings, and old mortar and brick was obsolete. Concrete is just mortar's offspring, after all. Maximum height before steel was about 25 stories or so. This is more than double the height.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

Concrete is cheaper than steel frame, absolutely. And if you do it right, there's no problem. The Burj Khalifa, the tallest building in the world is reinforced concrete, built on sand. It seems to be doing alright... The planned Jeddah Tower, at 1000 meters tall is also reinforced concrete construction. Nothing wrong with the Millennium Tower from ground level up, but the foundation is fu*ked up...

Liquefaction is the key here. Ground soil is soft and water laden. When the ground shakes, soil loses cohesive strength. Vibration from drilling is causing ground weakness which is why tilting is getting worse.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. I think by the end of the year they will throw their hands up and decide it's a teardown.

@colin-nekritz

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I posted about this upthread and just scrolled down to see this. I lived in Seattle and worked on a report re a big earthquake or Rainier blowing would level much of south Seattle EXCEPT some of the building that either happened to be on bedrock or they had the sense to drilled down to bedrock. The Millennium Tower at least at the moment is just a floating on a sea waiting for even the slightest storm to tip it over.

@encinobalboa

2 жыл бұрын

@@colin-nekritz Floating on a Sea of Mud is an excellent analogy. Interestingly, drilling for the "fix" reveals an interesting possible solution. If drilling causes tilting on the side of drilling, opposite side drilling could be used to counter tilt the building back to vertical. Foundation would still have to be anchored to bedrock with four sided support of the foundation.

@trek520rider2

2 жыл бұрын

@@encinobalboa This brings up an image of trying to fix a wobbly table; cut the long leg, one of the other legs is too long, eventually you end up with tiny legs. Your way eventually half the building will be beneath the surface 😆

@encinobalboa

2 жыл бұрын

@@trek520rider2 Chasing. I see your point and humor. Happily for the rest of us, this is not our problem.

I am really interested in this new series. I always learn a lot from your videos. Thank you for doing them. It's complex information, but you make it understandable for non-engineers.

Just wanted to say that I love this channel. My father worked for a building company, and as a kid, he would take me around various sites he thought cool or interesting and talk about them. Or, let's be fair, most of the time talk about what he thought they did wrong (he worked for a small company, they were big giants, and in his opinion, sloppy workers). This channel feels like a more in-depth revisit of my childhood, than you for making me interested in buildings again.

As an engineer it's a pleasure to listen to another engineer from a different discipline explain the details and complexities of construction. Please don't feel you have to dumb your explanations down for a KZread audience. As you can see from the comments you have a lot of well educated followers who appreciate your explanations.

@inconnu4961

Жыл бұрын

I really wish he would dumb it down for me!

Josh Porter is on a new series!! I'm ready to watch every detail he finds. As a South Florida resident, and construction worker for decades, I've come to appreciate the engineering that goes into every project I have worked on. Thank God none of those buildings were ever damaged or destroyed. I'm going to be glued to this channel forever. It helps me understand how structures are designed and common failure points, so I can watch out for these as a building goes up from the ground. Thank you Josh for taking on this series.

I know nothing about engineering but I'm very curious to learn / understand how things work and I enjoy very much your videos. Thanks Josh ! Bonjour de Montréal, Québec.

@TechandTools1

2 жыл бұрын

I'm in the same boat as you, I really feel the way he explains everything makes it so I can retain more information.

I've been in this building many times when I used to deliver furniture... This was back 2009-2012. You'd never know it wasn't a solid building. Wonder how many others are like this out there

This has all the makings of a massive civil engineering catastrophe. The best option is to start the slow process of a graceful teardown. Even on bedrock, tall heavy buildings in San Francisco sooner or later will suffer the consequences of a large earthquake. Friction piles in that soil, in that area, simply present too much risk. It is shocking that the building plan was permitted.

I'm a carpenter that worked on the interiors of the Millennium Tower. I have also performed a lot of concrete work. When I started on the 4th floor, I looked around at the shell, and my first question was: "How high are they going with this thing?!" It's a MASSIVE structure, with extremely dense concrete, on bay fill. I was working for the design/build general contractor, whose forte is poured in place concrete structures. My understanding is that the general convinced the developers to switch building styles. I'm assuming steel frame was switched to poured in place concrete. I know for a fact that no soils engineer was ever retained. As hard as it is to believe, I also understand that the basic foundation was not modified for the new design. It's now estimated that driving the piles down to bedrock would have cost an additional $4 million. I don't understand how I have never seen the general's name mentioned in any of the litigation or articles from the media.

@MajorCaliber

2 жыл бұрын

_I'm assuming steel frame was switched to poured in place concrete._ FALSE. That would never ever be done on a "whim", and would require re-starting the LENGTHY CALIFORNIA approval process at square 0... and would NEVER be up to the GenCon... also steel never used for residential--too much SWAY... SMH. _I know for a fact that no soils engineer was ever retained._ FALSE. They're called GEOTECHNICAL Engineers, and several are listed in the lawsuit. _It's now estimated that driving the piles down to bedrock would have cost an additional $4 million._ SOURCE?... _crickets_ you can't do anything below-grade in SFO for $4MIL... _I don't understand how I have never seen the general's name mentioned in any of the litigation..._ As long as he followed the sealed plans, he's not on the hook.

All I want to know is 1) which way is it going to fall and 2) which surrounding buildings is it going fall on.

I have no engineering background whatsoever but I'm finding your videos fascinating. You are brilliant at explaining what's going on in a way that I believe most people can thourghly understand. I just can't wait for the next video in this series!!!

Thanks Josh, really looking forward to this series. We've had a couple of buildings with issues like this here in Sydney Australia

@ChrisRWilcox

2 жыл бұрын

Which buildings? I'd be curious to learn more

@Smithy67

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChrisRWilcox (1) Opal Tower, Olympic Park (2) Mascot Towers, Sydney

Has anyone talked to the carpenter crews who did the top few floors? The upper third of all floors? Upper half? If it was beginning a serious tilt long before completion the hands-on workers would have surely known it and most likely reported it to superiors. Might speak to timeline of who knew what and when they knew of it.

@Jacks_Suffocating_Nihilism

2 жыл бұрын

I recall testimony from some flavor of interior decor contractor that they were having trouble squaring with plumbs.

@had2galsinthebooth

2 жыл бұрын

@@sjb3460 Yes,and installing many things that need to be plumb and/or level but don't quite work with the out of plumb building. Kind of like doing remodel in a 150yo house that is out of plumb,out of level,and out of square,it's tough and takes longer.

As a mechanical engineer, I recommend that they use plenty of super-glue to attach that mat extension to the mat. If the mat extension pops loose from the mat due to bending stress on the joint , the result will probably be a fast and catastrophic tilt of the building. That joint looks like the weak point in this whole hare-brained idea of a fix.

@leonardcollings7389

4 ай бұрын

My guess is that when the building reaches a 40-inch tilt it will fall over. At any rate, none of the mechanicals will work at that point.

Seems like their Hamburger helper was luke warm at best. I’ll see myself out.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, a guy named 'Ronald Hamburger' coming to save us from disaster. We have now entered cartoon-world...

Those of us who live in the Bay Area have been watching in awe for several years now as this catastrophe in the making unfolds like a slow motion horror movie. Why aren't the people of San Francisco demanding that this building be taken down? Where is the outrage, the formation of citizen committees, the demonstrations in the streets? Is it just too overwhelming to deal with?

This is nearly to the level of a public service IMO. Great content, I cannot wait for the analysis and presentation!

This is going to be phenomenal. Given the excellence with which you explained Champlain Towers, I, and I am sure others, will be anxious to see every episode! Jim Atlanta

One of the articles I read was saying that some of the cracking and spalling does extend into the basement of the adjacent mid rise, it's just not got the headline grabbing tilt. I think it's all the one big engineering problem, with the movement of the skyscraper causing damage to the low tower. It was a while ago that I read that, and I'm fuzzy on the detail, I just remember something about problems in the basement of the mid rise as well. I'm sure you're already on it, but liquefaction. It's a possible factor in accelerated movement with the remedial piling, but a more major concern in an 8+ quake.

So excited for this video.

This building has been a local joke since construction started. First as a "Really? you want to spend that much on a condo unit while surrounded by mentally ill homeless people?", then later as the construction deficiencies became apparent, as a bit of schadenfreude. There is another tower that is a laughing stock that is colloquially known as the Ionic Breeze Tower (the building equivalent of a comb-over). This building is One Rincon Hill... not falling down, but still a failure of architecture design for aesthetic reasons.

@sunspot42

2 жыл бұрын

It was originally built as the headquarters for The Sharper Image, before they imploded. SI being known for their "Ionic Breeze" air purifiers. And of course their vibra...er...neck massagers.

Josh, another great one. Please cover at some point how will this building be demolished, since that remains a very significant possibility.

@petersack5074

2 жыл бұрын

.....no need to. Demolished, will happen NATURALLY when it leans/slides/sinks with the rest of the whole SanFran bay area......google Mr. Parsons' take on this: he is an engineering geophysicist, with proof, from satellite imagery of various kinds. Yellow areas, are sinking in the Bay area there...... Greed killed the people.......from the whole 'peoples ' involved, in modern '' business ''...................there will be maybe many newer buildings, doing the same thing.

I watched the full CTS series and now the Millenium series. You have chosen an excellent story that is very intriguing.. I'm sure we "non-engineers and engineers" will enjoy watching all the episodes as you explain a give us your opinions and knowledge..

Not to mention, if you look at the risk of liquification during a seismic event the highest risk runs from the Embarcadero down market and mission to van ness. It’s basically where they built all the high rise buildings.

Thx as always - fantastic detail. Can’t wait for part II ! Your teaching skills are awesome!

Looking forward to this series. I think the most important question is, just to set the scene: If we gave you the money, would you live there for 2 years? Would you even enter the building?

@lilysgram5886

2 жыл бұрын

I would be afraid to even walk by the building!!

As entertaining as this is, as rich as these people are, what can be done to avoid a collapse? I do not want to see people die. So glad you are covering this. The more coverage before something happens the better.

@toomanymarys7355

2 жыл бұрын

The taxpayers are paying for it.

@snaplash

Жыл бұрын

As rich as the owners, they can probably afford to evacuate, and pay for demolition and rebuilding.

The original contractor on the Tower got the city engineer to change the depth of the piers to not have to go to bedrock. So you might want to talk about that scandal. This saved the contractor millions in costs.

@leonardcollings7389

4 ай бұрын

Only 4 million saved for a 500 Million fix.

From what I have heard about this building there seems to be plenty of incompetence and possibly corruption under the surface.

@0756rocketman

2 жыл бұрын

Above and below the surface.

I have followed you throughout the Champlain Towers South analysis and have thoroughly enjoyed that series of videos and I am looking forward to this series. I find this subject to be very interesting and although I have no structural engineering knowledge whatsoever, you explain things very well for those of us who are not "in the know" and help us to all make sense of these things and why things happen as they do in pertaining to structural failures and I appreciate that. Good job Josh!!! 👍👍👍

Ooh, this is a meaty one. Stocking up on popcorn.

I'm really happy that you've started adding metric system references. It really makes us non-US viewers able to enjoy your videos even more. I am looking forward to the new series. Thank you so much!

I love how when doing work on a very mild repair of a typical residential block basement foundation wall, I seem to put more care into the design than some of these huge building design firms do. I guess I was just taught to protect my license more than they were.

I can't wait to see your series on this!!! I have really enjoyed your honesty and expertise of your Champlain Tower South video's! I can see you have a passion for doing the right thing!

Great job, Josh. Very concise and I know you will give a informative, impartial analysis of the building’s problems just as you did with Champlain Towers in Florida( I watched all those videos religiously.) Grady over on Practical Engineering did a show on this building a while back and I’m looking forward to your expertise as well. I live in the SF Bay Area and have followed this story for a long time. The shenanigans that have been going on are epic and include the city, engineers, consultants, and all others who weigh in. I suspect that when you begin digging into this story, you will need a HUGE shovel with lots of time for perhaps dozens(?) of segments on your channel. This will be a great series. Let the show begin! Thanks

Thank you for covering this. As a lifelong SF Bay Area resident who witnessed the 1989 Loma Prieta quake firsthand, I’m concerned about the safety of this building and that entire Mission Bay/ Embarcadero area in SF.

Season 2 is shaping up to be a good one! Adding more popcorn to the grocery list...

First of all, I'm NOT a civil engineer, so this is just my thoughts. Are friction piles really a good idea in an area with a lot of earthquake activity? I've heard of soil liquifaction when subject to violent shaking. Seems that would nullify the friction piles and result in a disaster.

@MajorCaliber

2 жыл бұрын

Cutting corners and pocketing _da kay$h_ is always in vogue... =:O

Looking forward to this series!

Yep. Josh is saying exactly what I was thinking as I started typing this in. Just like Champlain Towers South, blame the neighbors for your own incompetence. Ain’t that the American way? So what should we do going forward? Never build anymore structures because the neighbor might sue you?

I look forward to following this series. As an engineer, the first time I heard of the subsidence of one side of that building, and in the area it is located, I became very concerned. I find it unsettling that so little progress (actually the opposite, in fact) has occurred. I really fear what will happen if any significant seismic activity occurs.

Hey Josh! I'm looking forward to following along on this adventure with you as I did throughout the Champlain Tower collapse series. I find the topic and your explanations fascinating as well as enlightening and educational. I'm just an intellectually curious old guy. ;-) Thanks for what you do and for making it understandable!!

Oh I'm definitely here for this. Not an engineer, or have any aspirations of becoming one, but I lived in the south bay which is about 45 miles south of SF for nearly 3 decades. This is super relevant to me given the close proximity to where I resided for most of my life.

@markpreston6930

2 жыл бұрын

45 miles is not close.

@drew10981

2 жыл бұрын

@@markpreston6930 One can take city public transportation from where I was to the city in about an hour. In other areas that may not be close. In the Bay, it's not close but it's also not very far. I had many friends over the years who made that drive up every weekend, or would make that commute 5 days a week. It's not as far as you think.

Im a Union Ironworker and I built the Transbay Terminal, also The Salesforce building across Fremont street from Millennium tower, and Facebooks building, next to the Transbay terminal, at 181 Fremont.. that whole block of Fremont street has had major problems problems at all those buildings! The beams that cracked at the terminal were the ones that span Fremont street..

Oh my god the spalling in that basement is terrifying.

I read somewhere that the amount of lean isn't "yet" exceeding what the building can handle, but- given that it wasn't supposed to lean or sink to begin with (meaning they were wrong), how do we even know the building can continue to handle that amount of lean? I mean if they didn't assume it would lean so much, why would we trust them to say it's still in tolerance? Next is what kind of stress does that lean put on the building and do they account for the wind load in addition to that added stress (especially over time)? Last, how does a 24 inch lean affect the condo floors? Can you feel the difference? (Will an egg roll off the counter top?)

@tehfalcon

2 жыл бұрын

the answer is yes, the egg will roll off. Lots of residents complain about rolling off their bed when they are asleep, or stuff sliding off their kitchen counters.

@richardr5888

2 жыл бұрын

@@tehfalcon I would if gone insane. I have this weird thing where I'm able to easily see things that aren't level, aligned, centered, and on and on. It's a curse, because I can't un-see it. Had a friend remodeling and enlarging his waterfront house. They had just removed the forms for the poured concrete angled walls on each side of the front double door opening. I walked up, looked at the front and told him his doorway (which needed to be dead center for the design) was off by 1 to 2 inches and that the supposed 45° adjacent walls were off 2 to 3°. He had to wait till next day for contractor to verify. Wish I had been wrong, but those walls were brought down and had to be reformed. This is not a gift, maybe OCD? Repeating patterns in tile floors where the like tiles aren't spaced and mixed correctly drive me bonkers because I see it instantly. Anyway, if I can feel a bed not being level by half an inch front to back, I think the leaning tower would of sent me to the nearest psych ward.

I’m looking forward to your review and analysis of the potential effects of earthquake activity on this building. As an Architect, I find your videos incredibly informative and easy to follow, and I appreciate your focus on design standards and ethics. Do you teach any CEU courses? They would be far more beneficial to our industry than another Lunch & Learn by a product vendor.

@billl1127

2 жыл бұрын

LoL, as a vendor that does a lot of Lunch & Learns, I take exception to that comment.

I’m in a mechanical contractor in New York City, and watching your videos, makes me want to get my Engineer license.

I poured the foundation for the Banner Estrella Medical Center in West Phoenix in 2004. It is a 5 story hospital building. The Foundation mat for this building is the same 10 foot steel reinforced mat as 645 foot Millennium Towers. The rebar in the hospitals mat is 1 inch rebar and the amount of rebar used looked insane to me at the time. The Millennium Towers has the same foundational mat for a building that is 12 times higher?! What gives? the hospital is 55 feet tall, the high rise is 645 feet tall. Why?

@leonardcollings7389

4 ай бұрын

Purportedly the Millennium Tower slab has deformed (I.E a big bowl dip}and has cracks and spalling from what I have heard. A case of being under-engineered or the pilings did not work as engineered.

Josh, the most important question to me, the one I was most interested in, was whether the building was safe. Is it safe to inhabit and is there an inherent danger of collapse?

@oPt1k4L

2 жыл бұрын

I second this! Want your thoughts on this Josh

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

Do you really even have to ask that question? Personally, I wouldn't go inside that building and if I had to pass by it, I would do so with great expedience...

@erik34

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbergstrom2931 And that's what I'm curious about! You say that, but have engineers deemed it unsafe to live in... or to pass by for that matter? And you said "personally" ... is the science there to back that up?

@erik34

2 жыл бұрын

Josh's knowledge and expertise is second to none. If I needed consulting, you better believe this would be my guy.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

@@erik34 Less science than my gut. Did you see the cracking in the foundation walls? And the 10 foot thick concrete mat is 'dishing'??? There's more going on with this building than they're telling us, or more than even they realize. Also, one word: EARTHQUAKES. Yeah, Hamburger man says it's safe at 70 inches of lean against earthquakes, but if there's soil liquifaction, all bets are off! I stand by my statement. I wouldn't go in, much less live there, and would pass by as quickly as I could.

Thanks for taking this on Josh. This is going to be a great series! Would you be able to tell us what is the absolute lean angle acceptable from an engineering perspective? 24° sounds pretty extreme!

@lancecluster

2 жыл бұрын

That is a good question. What does 24" represent in degrees of angle on the lean? and how many more until in goes timber?

@feralcatgirl

2 жыл бұрын

24 inches works out to about 0.2 degrees

@hypsyzygy506

2 жыл бұрын

The Leaning Tower of Pisa got to 5.5° but has been brought back to just less than 4°.

@johnbergstrom2931

2 жыл бұрын

After a few degrees tilt the columns on the lower level will be so overloaded, cracking and crumbling will threaten to bring it down, straight down. Wouldn't fall like a tree... Never gonna get there though. Even a 1 degree tilt would amount to the building leaning nearly 11 feet at the roof. Every resident would move out and they would tear it down long before then. (If the foundation walls are already cracking, that's a whole different ballgame...)

@jaytea3299

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbergstrom2931 Were you trying to be reassuring? I couldn't tell.

Finally! Thank you for covering this! Really excited to hear your take on this

I still remember when this made national news. I happen to catch it by chance before work and at this time even me, someone who really don't sympathize with wealthier people, was like "Yeah this is ridiculous and those people deserve better.

Armed with everything learned in your CTS videos, looking forward to your insights in this series. Always come away feeling smarter, having gotten a dose of education on a subject you present in such an intriguing fashion. Slightly 'soap opera-ish.'

Fascinating! Glad no one has died in this one (yet. Can’t imagine an earthquake will keep that continuing)

@tomservo5007

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if they are waiting for an earthquake to take it down because then insurance would take the brunt of the financial loss

We are The Josh Posse™ and this is our catnip! (Where is his tip jar?) :D

So excited for this series.

I'm looking forward to this series of videos! I hope the engineers prevail on this one. Looks like their opening up a can of worms. I'm no engineer but...seems like it's cheaper to put foundation piles to bedrock before you build the building! shortcuts can endup costing more in the long run.

@johnhaller5851

2 жыл бұрын

Since the piles to bedrock can only be put on the outside, it's certain that it won't make dishing any better

@jean6061

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent conclusion (about piles driven to bedrock at the start of construction) - and you're not even an engineer!