Now rebranded Sainsbury's smart charge!

Great to see this IRL and not just a press release. IIRC Sainsburys said they will be adding 1,000 extra bays by end of this year which is incredible rate of rollout, and either Morrisons or Asda doing the same. Plus for much of the day you are likely getting facilities such as cafe toilets or if you just want to eat in your car you can get whatever you want as a snack. This is going to give Shell and BP a run for their money they've had highly visible sites with power but dragged their feet on rollout and reliability (also from what ive read Kempower units are highly rated for reliability, big in Scandinavian countries so should cope with our weather)

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

Nicer place to stop for a cafe and a toilet break than a petrol station too

Where are the prices displayed? At petrol stations they are very clearly displayed.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Yep this could be better!

There are 6 new chargers just gone in at the Sainsbury's near me (Bramingham). I thought id try them out just to see how they were (i normally charge at home). Very slick and easy to use. Just needs to be cheaper, currently will only use when desperate for a quick charge.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Yeah absolutely, hopefully with more competition the prices will come down especially with lowering energy prices. Never going to outcompete home charging though. Rapids will always be a premium Vs home charging for lots of reasons, but these could be much cheaper than motorway charging like fuel is so that's my hope.

@adrianthoroughgood1191

2 ай бұрын

​@@Lewis_Standinghave you seen any public chargers with time of day variable pricing? It would make sense to have that.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 octopus electroverse does that on very windy days. Have a look in their app and look for the green leaf icon..

1:14 I’m sure the Renault Zoe 2020 has CCS 🤔

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

They made them from 2013 to 2017 with only AC though

As a wheelchair user, they look pretty good to me. 👍👍 Hang on £75?? That is more than steep!!

@Lewis_Standing

3 ай бұрын

Yeah it's crazy. It's what you'd pay for 100kwh at 75p each. Apparently their pre authorisation charges are just as high for their unmanned petrol forecourts too 🤷

You mentioned the chargers across the read. Raw network at 73p, but with Octopus Energy’s Electroverse card is 67p and 61p for up to Ac38kw which is great for those Zoe owners especially if they have. ac43kw charging version like us.

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/n3mbxs6zc6q9f8Y.htmlsi=x85Y9m7reeB1P9UD Yup! Just here

The Sainsbury’s near me in Sheffield did have chargers a few years ago but took them all out and never replaced them. Will be interesting to see if/when/where new ones will go

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Yeah previously supermarkets appeared to be using it as a niche offering to owners to choose one supermarket over another for free. Now I think they see it as a business strategy in a serious way so no freebies!

No good to us Leaf owners then, (well until the CCS to Chademo adpator comes on the market) but that might be a blessing in disguise looking at those prices! Nice that they have opted for the Kempower system as it in keeping with the Sainsbury colour scheme!

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

I think other places are going to be more Chademo friendly, but yes this is all CCS. I almost bought a leaf 3 years ago and I drive past the Sunderland factory every working day so I've got a soft spot for them. With the ariya being CCS I wonder if the next gen leaf will be CCS too. A conversation kit for dealers might be attractive too. Give the Nissan garages something to be busy with. Sorry rambling.

Great video :) Unfortunately, as a wheelchair user (and an EV user since 2015) the inclusion of bump stops will still be a major barrier for many disabled people. I’ve contacted the installers about this issue and they have promised to remove the bump stops, so hopefully they will do this :)

@Lewis_Standing

3 ай бұрын

People will crash into them though so I can understand them doing it. Wonder if there's a way to have some to protect the equipment but not block Access

@adrianthoroughgood1191

2 ай бұрын

Is this gap not wide enough? Or are you talking about other locations?

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 I think the bollards can make getting close enough to the screen challenging and yes space in-between the bays too

@adrianthoroughgood1191

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing I was assuming Ian was referring to the bumps on the ground to assist parking. You can't not have the bollards. It looks like these bollards are as close as they could be and still protect the equipment. I imagine the thing that would really help is to have the controls lower on the unit.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Yeah maybe

Cheaper than Instavolt and shell recharge and Evyve. So it's a Start.

@Lewis_Standing

3 ай бұрын

Not by much!

@ogriboy

3 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing 6p is 6p I think more with Electroverse

Too expensive to use. I charge at home for a fraction of the price before I go shopping. The range on my car will get me to Sainsbury's and back. Tesco chargers used to be free to use, so I did my weekly shop there instead of at Sainsbury's.

@Lewis_Standing

3 ай бұрын

But the hope is that with 750 more rapid charger's available at 100 hubs that the competition for charging will drive down prices. Enables those without home charging to have confidence in there being charger's available. The free model was never going to stay in the long run

@javelinXH992

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_StandingExactly the point. These are ideal for those who can’t charge at home. It doesn’t need to come down much to be cheaper than petrol (about 50p per kWh is the break point at the moment). Competition is needed and this will help.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

It's actually really very ambitious when their core business is struggling (or so the news tells me)

Amazing please put some at Biddulph Sainsburys

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

Yeah why not?

Amazing that a nuclear power plant can produce AC electricity at 13p/kWh, but it needs to increase by nearly 6 times before Sainsbury's can sell it to you in DC form. Who knew NPPs were so cheap.

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

I'm no expert at the energy market I'm afraid. But the national grid website tells me that only 60% of the cost of energy is the wholesale cost you quote. Then you have transmission costs, social levies on top etc. Each middle man wants a cut too, charger manufacturer, installers, Sainsbury's, national grid, local distribution. It's not quite simple as the basic cost of energy.

@martyndavies1482

4 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing yes that's right, those middle men. Back in the 1950s the world heralded nuclear power as the answer (clean, safe, too cheap to meter), but little did they know it would be the 2020's before the real value was added (5x as much!) Of course I remember a few years back when public charging only added 0.5x to the wholesale cost, what amazing middle men Sainsbury's must have found! Tesla can provide charging with only a 2x markup, and to think parts of the USA can supply AC electricity at just 3 cents a kWh - what wonderful UK based DC electricity middle men we have here!

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

Have you seen the announcement about Hinckley C delay in construction again and it's price increase again. GW scale nuclear does not have a good reputation for budget or timeliness.

@Ian-xq4rt

2 ай бұрын

Nuclear accounts for about 14% of electricity only, this is a commodity and traded daily, wholesale prices vary by the hour. Most houses can get electricity for between 20p to 40p during the day (much cheaper at night). This includes national grid and supplier profits, so, unless Sainsbury’s are making maybe 35p per KW, then someone’s doing very well with these prices. Simple approach, if it’s too expensive, do use them.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

@@Ian-xq4rt the grid connections and chargers cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. The debt ain't cheap these days.

As long as there’s not an id3 or Born in the bay first! Could be a very long wait

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

They can charge at 125kw right? I think the dwell times here at a supermarket are expected to be 40 minutes. So how long you had to wait will depend on how long they've already been there, and how much they need or want to charge , if they pre heated or how hot it is etc. The id3/born isn't a notoriously slow charging car, for example my Kona has max of 77kw.

@gesp5151

2 ай бұрын

The Born is a notoriously slow charger! It doesn’t hit the stated 5-80% performance of 35minutes and my experience was it regularly took 50-55mins. I’ve raised this with VW: they said statement was a range. I said it has never hit the range once. They didn’t reply!!! I had complaints from other drivers and got rid!

@gesp5151

2 ай бұрын

Ps, is your first sentence the car or the charger? I assumed charger. My best ever was a peak of just 72kwh. I’ve photographed other Borns on superchargers mid battery in 40-50’s only!

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Probably no pre heating done and battery cold. Half the point of these chargers is that you'll use them while shopping, rather than as a motorway services type rapid charging rush. So you'll be doing your weekly shop for as long as that takes and then returning to pick it up. It just has to be done by the time you finish shopping

@gesp5151

2 ай бұрын

At half charge on a Born it won’t be. The battery safe was completely random. I tried all manner of conditions and there was never any rhyme or reason to it. Even their courtesy car did the same!

No chademo? A lot of Nissan Leafs are still around.

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

Not according to Sainsbury's! Not sure they are all Chademo free but this one is!

no sign of them going in soon at Bamber Bridge Preston Lancashire

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

smartcharge.co.uk/locations They've not published where they plan to install as far as I can see

@stephenbagwell8275

4 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing the nearest one to me is Harrogate

@Lewis_Standing

4 ай бұрын

@@stephenbagwell8275 what I can find is that they plan on opening 750 bays in 100 stores by the end of the year, which is quite a lot. But they do have 600 large supermarket stores nationwide though.... So 1/6 chance it's coming to yours this year

Until the cables get nicked…

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

It has been in the news yes. They'll just tighten security. No Biggie

@adrianthoroughgood1191

2 ай бұрын

I think the government should introduce higher punishments for cable theft as a deterrent.

I noticed no one ever factors in the cost of installing EV chargers and their infrastructure and that's why the actual electric cost at them is higher than at home. A friend has just had a basic 7.5kw charger installed at his home to the sum of £900 which was a straightforward affair now imagine what it cost to install all singing and dancing public one's.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Yup they are expensive kit, the Grid connection can be hundreds of thousands and likewise the kit. You're never going to compete with home costs. 75p is still unappetising though isn't it?

@derekcable

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing Once everything is run on electric due to the green agenda I forsee home charging rates will increase especially with the rollout of smart meters.... Supply and Demand. They will have you by the proverbial.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

So far my smart meter has saved me £1000 per year with home charging Vs petrol a year so I'm skeptical. My smart tariff gives me 7.5p rates for 6 hours overnight and extra hours at that rate form the home and car if I plug in an extra time 🤷 Have a look at octopus agile tariff for how much cheaper a smart tariff is agileprices.co.uk/?region=F Price cap is 30p but majority of the time the price has been less than 15p last month.

@derekcable

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing tbh Lewis EV charging at home is in its honeymoon period which I believe down the line will change once the demands due to mass home changing takes place. Yes I am a cynic which I never was a few years ago.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

And? For me it's 8x cheaper than petrol. They would have to be going some to make it price parity. And even if they did, it's quite convenient being able to charge at home, any car park I leave it at or my parents when I visit. Overall the experience would still be better.

I definitely won’t be using it now £75 imagine if that fail and you’ve got to do it twice I don’t get my head around this authorisation fee. Do they think people got endless money? That’s gonna cost about £20.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Yup that's a possible huge issue. People have told me to use a credit card as it just reduces your available credit temporarily

@jakeroadtonowhere4070

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing to be honest these companies need to tell us what’s going on with this authorisation fee does not make no sense when it only cost about £20 to charge your car I have a paua card I don’t get an authorisation charge. It’s accepted at most charges not a Sainsbury’s at the moment, could you imagine if you were desperate? You only had enough for charge most of them charger around about £45 I only pay for what I use with my card

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

@@jakeroadtonowhere4070 it's about the risk of fraud. Some ride share type driver's would have false accounts with internet banking with 1p more than a pre authorisation amount of low eg £5.01 for a £5 pre authorisation. But take £30 of petrol or electricity and then the charger or petrol station not be able to take the right amount back and lose thousands as thousands of them did it. So they have become very defensive See EV musings podcast episode 165 or ask Gary on twitter at @musingsev about pre auths and which episode it was if I'm wrong

@jakeroadtonowhere4070

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing the one near me only charges 30.,so why can’t they all charged the same. I have seen some as much as £80., there is no need for it to be so high regardless of fraud not everybody’s got endless cash in the real world people live on a budget if that fails twice that’s £150 and some people might not have enough money to do it again and then go to another one is ridiculous. that is a difference between the real world and people in business they don’t understand how the world works. There’s no excuse to charge 75. There’s cctv and you do have a registration number.

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

@jakeroadtonowhere4070 different acceptance of risk. Some petrol stations that are unmanned have high pre authorisations too up to the cost of large diesel tanks eg £100+. Manned stations or ones with good CCTV and a chance of catching the fraudsters have lower or no ore authorisations apparently. What's important is within 12 months they are all contactless and have to demonstrate 99% reliability or get fines so 🤞 this gets solved. In the meantime vote with your wallet for reliability, low price, low or no pre auths Edit cloning plates is a thing too and lawyers cost ££££ to try recoup. Much better to try prevent

I’m not a fan of EV’s in any shape or form BUT I have to say that charging by credit/debit card without using yet another APP is a step forward.

@Lewis_Standing

3 ай бұрын

It's going to be mandatory soon. They did it to save money, they got cheaper transaction costs and data/ devices issues

@gesp5151

2 ай бұрын

BMW app recognises where I am and starts on a single card pass: takes milliseconds

Why do you need a support line to ring? Never seen one when buying petrol. And what idiot wants to wait up too 2 hours to charge up ffs

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

Who needs 2 hours to charge? You're in the supermarket for 30 40 mins or as some people do if they go to the café (it's always full) maybe an hour. Car would just charge whilst you're shopping 🤷 Some of these supermarkets are near main roads and if you're driving a long way, stopping here for cheap food, a bathroom and a stretch of the legs for 30 mins would be competitive with motorway services for convenience.

Waste of money

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

How so?

Absolute rip off . I pay 10 times less than that at home

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

A bit unfair comparison however. This DC kit is more expensive than your home charger, you didn't need to pay for a huge grid connection either. So while you're right it is expensive, it's crazy to expect DC charging to be remotely cost competitive with home charging

@persona250

2 ай бұрын

@@Lewis_Standing 99.99% of ppl with an electric car will have a home charger so why would they pay this price ?

@Lewis_Standing

2 ай бұрын

They won't, if people can get home there's no need to use them. But these might have a role for alternatives on main routes/ competition for rapid charging at services. And a realistic rapid charging price at 50p is still super expensive Vs home but more affordable Vs this current price. Hopefully if interests rates and electric comes down they'll get cheaper